 President Johnson's telephone conversation with Speaker of the House John McCormick and Congressman Otto Passman on November 29, 1963, at 4.55 p.m. It's not going to be like the Nuremberg trial or the railroad track or anything like that, but this is, we just said, whoever thinks we'll be ready tomorrow, maybe that Monday, we think we ought to announce this thing as quickly as we can because Rusk is rather concerned about it. And we've announced the commission. Say they're going to evaluate the report. I sent you down, if you haven't got it yet, a complete memorandum on the Pearl Harbor so you'd have it, you know, on the executive order and the other things that happened. I just sent it down for information in case you'd want to get it for sort of a guidance background. Here's who I would think, who we think would make pretty good ones. Now I want to tell it to you and I don't want you to repeat it to a human being because I haven't talked to any of them. I'll talk to Russell, talk to Dick Russell, close the store holder. I'd like to have some outstanding states rights man. And Eastland was kind of headed a resolution investigating it over there. I'd like to get him to call off his investigation. I'd like to take the Chief Justice and John McCloy and Alan Douglas. Alan Douglas. Alan Douglas. Richard Russell. Senator Cooper. And I was considering Representative Boggs who had been talking about this stuff all the time. What's Boggs? Raheel Boggs. And Congressman Ford. Can I get any better ones that you think of? I have talked to nobody but Russell about it. Now I've got to be sure that with House and Senate don't mess with them and that I've got to have someone that can work with their justice, with the administration, with Hoover, and that has been interested in it so it's kind of like an author of a resolution. I really, just between us, I don't want Eastland so that's why I've got Russell. The Republican bill though, I'd have to consult with the House if there was a procedure you could consult with the college. Well that's on your appointments up there but this is going to be appointed by the President. Oh you're going up there? Yes. Well what do we do up here? He gave me advice. I'm just asking here, do you think there's anybody better that I could get? No. What's your judgment? No. Do you know of an abler or a better, more patriotic fellow than a Republican that would suit this mission if you were President and Ford? No. No. He's top late man. And I have a drive to the consciousness of responsibility too. And Boggs, you'd feel alright too about it again. Yes. Is anybody that's shown more interest in it? He's a good man. You couldn't have him. Those are two good men. I know. What do you don't you think? You always want to make Mr. Rayburn out of you. Dick Russell and John Cooper. Yes. Cooper. Dick Russell, yes. Good. Cooper of course is a strong man. Hoover doesn't much like McCloy. Let me see. But you'd have Cooper and Russell from this and the rest of the south. Well, they would be the cupers of border state. Russell would be the south. Boggs would be the south. You wouldn't have any. You wouldn't hear any from the north. Well, I got McCloy. I got Dallas. I mean on the legislative level. No. No. No. But I have a chief in California, McCloy from New York, Dallas from New York. You're the one to make the decision. Yeah, but I'm just, I just want to get the best judgment. I'm going to make it. You know anything about McCloy yourself? Not myself, no. My impression is very good of him. I don't, I, I, I, I, everything I've heard about him. I thought he's been very favorable about the man personally. Now I've told the chief that Eastland promised me in the Senate that he wouldn't go on and I've talked to you about it in the house. I don't want to point a commission if they're going to start a bunch of investigations. Well, as far as the house is concerned, I'll stop everything. I can't stop investigations. Well, I think we're, well too, we don't want to be testifying. Well, coming up in Dallas, Ben, I think Khrushchev planned this whole thing and he got our president assassinated. And his television saying that the assistant chief said today that he believes Khrushchev did so and so and we can see what that'll lead to us right quick. Who said that? Nobody said it, but if they do, you know. When are you going to make the appointment? Just quick as I can talk to him and get it and get an executive order drafted and so forth. I better get on with it. I just thought I wanted to talk to you before I did it, my friend. You think it's all right? The theory of the commission is absolutely correct. I know nothing on the legislative level. You see, the only thought was on the legislative level was Russell, Cooper and Boggs have three from the South. No, Russell, Cooper is not a Southerner and Boggs is not much of a... No, I agree with you that. He's been kind of off in the resolution, you know. He's been wanting to investigate it over there. Oh, Boggs. Yeah, Haley made a speech about it today. Well, he was just answering some questions. Yeah, but he's been on television three or four times about there ought to be a congressional investigation. Well, I hadn't heard of that. Yeah. Right then I'd have spoken to him. Yeah. But Cooper's considered a pretty liberal fellow, you know. There's no question about that. And Ford is from the North. Yeah. And Cooper's from a border state and he got two Southerners, but you got two Southerners, they're civilians. I agree with what I mean to offset them. Yeah, I'm not... I wasn't undertaken to argue with you. I wouldn't do that under any circumstances. Well, I sure want you to if you disagree with me. You just tell me. But the... You couldn't have better men. Yeah. But I'm just thinking of the geographical location on the legislative level. And that's something I just simply called to your conscious mind for you to consider. That you would have... That Cooper... Kentucky up North is considered South. I agree with the border state. Well, you see, from the public, though, I wouldn't have any Southerner. What's that? They're three men that appointed to represent the public. Yeah. And none of them are Southerners. No, that's true. Well, you go ahead. Well, you take care of the House representatives for me. Well, I'll... Well, how am I going to take care of them? Well, just keep them from investigating. Oh, well, that's the matter. I've been doing it. Well, goodbye. Now, listen, can I... Listen, I got outside. I had Otto Passman in here, and I was doing some paperwork. And I want to call him in from the outside and be able to say hello to him. Okay, you betcha. I got a Pakistan ambassador waiting on me since 445. But put him in. Put him right in. That's where Passman came in. That's where I've been working all the time. I'm going to be running for 30 minutes late. Otto! Hurry up. The President will... Mr. President. Yes? Here's Otto. I was having a conflict with him when you called me. He's in the outer office. That's fine. I'd like to say hello to him. Wait a minute, Mr. President. Mr. President. Otto, how are you, my friend? God bless you. And remember that I will cooperate in every way that I possibly can, and any time that I can help. I wish I could trade jobs with you, Otto. Otto, I wish I could trade jobs with you. Well, I know that you do. And remember that my prayers are with you. And I shall do everything within my power to make it any harder than I have to. And I was in here conferring with our great speaker a little while ago about foreign aid. That's not going to be an easy thing, but if and when... Otto, remember this. Remember this. This is what's just between you and me. I don't want you to repeat it to anyone, but you've been my friend. The one thing I've found out since I've been down here in my relations with 110 other nations, about all I've got is a foreign aid bill to deal with them with. And we've got more damn problems than you ever saw. I just listened to Penny's talking to the chairman of the Atomic Energy Committee. And he said the only one knew this was Kennedy and knew the only one knows it now. And when he walked out, I wished I hadn't known it, but you can... We're spending over $100 billion this year. The budget's being made coming up to 15th. And the only thing I've got is that little checkbook of $3.5, $4 billion, whatever you give me. And you'll cut it some, but you've already worked on it. And that's the only thing I've got is 110 nations. Now, give me a year, and I'll try to sit down with you and take your recommendations and try to make the cleanup over there in any way that I can do it. I'm practical I can't do it the first month, but because they say the South is destroying everything. But I'll get my teeth into that and try to clean that agency up where it'll smell better to you. But please go home and say your prayers and say, now, I'm the banker and I can let Johnson have $400 a month or I can let him have $300. But I'm gonna be off. That's all I'm gonna have and far and in aid. That's the only way I can deal with the world. And whatever you cut it to, it's gonna cause me trouble because Kennedy's not here and I'm new and when I have to cut him back they're gonna say, well, hell, look what he did last year, and that's what he did to me. And I'm gonna do everything I humanly can, but you do it too. Can I say one thing before we get off? Yes, you can. And this will be worthwhile. It's a proper time, as I told our great speaker here. I think in 17 years I haven't asked one president to see me for 15 minutes. I don't fool people and they're busy. If and when you want to discuss this with me, I'll come running with our beloved speaker. I should say this. I want to do it. I'll tell you that now. If you want to do it with me, we'll just do it. And as soon as I can move in this place, we'll just sit down and me and you and John will talk about it. Let me do it with my speaker. You've always been so capable to me. But I want to say this before we get off the line. And I think this would be something you'd be turning over because when I come, I'll be factual. Last year, I guess maybe I was jumped on by more people and criticized more by cutting $4.8 billion in any other time since I've handled the bill. But they came back this year and said, yes, you took out a billion, but you still gave us a half a billion dollars more than we need and we're going to lose most of it. And I say, those are some things I'll have to talk to you about. And I told the speaker, I said, these people don't know what they want, what they need. They're just full of bull and they never pin it down. But I will say this, there's a half a billion dollars, almost a half over now, 578 million clean, unobligated funds. They were going to give most of it up. I talked to the speaker and I have arranged to tell these people how to keep a half a billion dollars. It was unobligated. And at the proper time, when you want to talk to me about this, I'll come running and I will lean over backwards, Mr. President, to help you and my speaker. Thank you, my friend. I'll be calling. Thank you, Mr. President. I appreciate it. If you want to come in, I want you to come and you just invite the speaker. Anybody else, you want to come with me? When you are ready, Mr. President, because you have a lot of responsibility. When you are ready, you tell the speaker and I want him with us because he knows that my word is my bond. God bless you. Thank you, God bless you. Bye. All right, Mr. President.