 You're listening to the number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mine pump now in today's episode We talk about fat loss. I know right now beginning of the year Everybody is interested in probably improving their body composition the average person gains body fat over the holiday season And gyms tend to get packed in January because everybody wants to reverse that trend So here's what we did in today's episode We talked about five super effective steps that you can do that we've noticed in our clients Remember, we all train people for over two decades So these are the most effective steps We've ever seen that help people lose fat keep it off and none of it has to do with dieting So you're not gonna follow a strict diet. You're not gonna try and hit calorie targets or anything like that Just follow these five steps and you're likely to see some serious fat loss Okay, and they start out with hitting protein targets. We talk about cutting down on bad habits That's a personal one. We talk about tracking not to hit targets But rather because it helps make you more mindful we talk about walking after every meal and then aiming for Drinking a half a gallon to gallon of water, but listen to the episode. We break it all down and explain it and give you Strategies now this episode is brought to you by one of our favorite sponsors Viori Viori makes some of the best athleisure wear clothing anywhere This stuff is super comfortable and has a lifetime guarantee And it's exploding Viori is blowing up everybody's getting Viori clothes Again, because the quality and the style are so amazing again They have that lifetime guarantee and because you listen to mine pump you get the biggest discount available around 25% off. Here's what you do go to Viori clothing.com. That's V-U-O-R-I Clothing.com forward slash Mine pump use the code mine pump to get that 25% off. Also, we've extended our December promotion For an entire week. Here's what the promotion is. We have three Workout bundles for three different types of people each bundle has different exercise programs And when you combine them all gives you about nine plus months of detailed exercise workout programming That means you know what your workouts look like every day You know how many sets you need to do reps what exercises and there's video demos So we teach you how to do every single movement that we ask you to do Here's the three different types of bundles the first one is for beginners It's called the new to weightlifting bundle. The second one is for intermediate people This one's the body transformation bundle and the third one is for those of you that have been working out for a long time And want to take it to the next level. It's an advanced bundle. It's the new year extreme intensity bundle Now all three of these bundles come with a 30-day money-back guarantee And they also include a year of free access Into our private forum this way you can have people help you along the way You can ask questions you can post videos of your exercises so people can critique your form You can talk to Adam Justin and myself. We're in there as well You get a full free access a year of access for free if you enroll any one of those three bundles Now if you want to learn more if you just want to sign up here's where you go go to maps December comm that's the word maps Maps December com Alright guys, I think since we're all on the same page right now, you know, we've been working out together and all of us are kind of Motivated yeah to do this Let's I think we should talk about how we Like to burn body fat for ourselves without dieting. Well, I mean without dieting exactly I mean, I usually don't follow a structured diet. I know you guys Similarly unless you were competing same thing for you Yeah, so we should talk about the strategies that we take and use for our self That we find the most success. I like this idea because as soon as I start to kick up on the Share in our training together and talking more about us Motivating. Yeah. Well, people then start DMing. You want to know exactly what it's funny Like I know that there's a lot of memes made around this and there's a lot of jokes Outside of the fitness community made about the fitness community about you know sharing food and meal I tell you to this day Nothing drives more viewers on my stories than sharing what I'm eating It is the funniest thing ever But I just I also think that that people are curious I mean there's a lot obviously most people that are following us are interested in health and fitness and training and building muscle and dieting And so you just want to know, you know, we could sit here and Write ebooks all day long or talk on a podcast But then they want to see what you're actually doing Yeah, I have a question for you guys because uh for me this happened for me I want to see if this happened to you for you guys as well A lot because obviously I got into the fitness space because I was a fitness fanatic And oftentimes what fitness fanatics do for themselves Is not what would work with the average for the average person because obviously you're a fanatic about fitness so much So that you made it your career So but as I continued to train clients I actually started to learn more from them I learned from them as well And so what I mean by that is a lot of the things that I do now are behavior based When I first got into fitness. I was such a fanatic. It was formulaic It was like do this eat this many calories Follow this meal plan But as I started training clients, obviously I would try that doing that for them didn't work for them What worked for clients was behavior based when I started applying that on myself It also worked better because it was easier and it was much more easier to sustain and I wasn't such a maniac I feel like that's kind of the natural progression for almost any good trainer Yeah, right. I think we you go through the schooling whether you went through the a formal traditional four-year degree Or you have you've acquired a bunch of national certifications And they teach you all the x's and o's You know, they teach you how to how to handle somebody who's trying to build muscle lose body fat sports performance Um and mechanics you get in and so it's a lot of the technical stuff So you have the answers to the test But what we what you find after you've trained, you know hundreds and then eventually maybe even thousands of people you start to realize Oh, shit, like even though all these x's and o's Are important to know The things that really move the needle for most people are creating good behaviors Yeah, it's so funny thinking back when I used to train clients Like when I was first getting started and would just look at food as Like numbers and they have these type of macros in them And so because it was like so popular back then to really have a meal plan attached to your training services You know, that's something I really tried to dive into and figure out and it was just it was so frustrating because I would come back And they're like, well, I didn't like that. I didn't like to give any of their options It was always do you have any other options to swap these out and do this and do that and do the other? And really like later on in my career I'm like, okay So I have to explain this in a way where it's relatable and it's something that they're already actually doing But now we're just tweaking little things. Right. So here's I'm going to paint the context. Okay When we say these are the things that work. Here's what we mean by that They work in the sense that they get you leaner duh So they should get you leaner But they also work in the sense that they're sustainable. These are things that tend to they last a long time It's not short lived results. It's sustainable because it works on the body in a long-term way But also sustainable because psychologically speaking It's sustainable and then third These things that we're going to we're going to talk about preserve muscle preserve the metabolism They're healthy approaches. So those are the three things that will paint the context kind of what works Well, that's the problem with the the x's and o's approach is it it creates a on and off the wagon Exactly. So I mean it and and I also want to be clear about this, right? So there's levels to this So right now I am not following a meal plan or tracking my food and weighing and measuring and doing so that but If I want to see 3% body fat and get in the the best shape of my life I would have progressed to that But when I'm talking about getting in good shape like really good shape like better than what most people would Not unhealthy lean. Yeah. Yeah, just lean just lean like lean very fit and good in good shape I don't need to do all that stuff to get there just by all I need to do is change some habits or behaviors in my Own life what I'm currently doing right now To start heading in that direction and I can always if I want to Ramp it up to like this really structured diet But even that it's just it's not long term for me and it's not sustainable and I'm a fitness fanatic So that's why and it took a while for me to piece that together If I have the on and off the wagon attitude by following the x's and o's and you work in for this Yeah, and I love it and I'm into it Imagine what that's like for somebody who hates it or it's a struggle to get to the gym or it's a struggle to say Yeah, that's why it always fails. All right. So the first thing that I do Is I just aim to hit my protein targets. Yeah. Now. Here's why this works so well, okay? First off, let's talk physiologically eating a high protein diet does preserve muscle It does help with the muscle building process indirectly it speeds up the metabolism which helps with fat loss But here's what it does psychologically We know this now for a fact and I've experienced this time and time again Not just myself But through with clients but also the studies support this When you hit a high protein diet when you aim for high protein Your app you tend to eat less you actually tend to eat less calories Overall, I know it sounds counter because you're like my god. I'm increasing my protein intake How was that going to make me eat less calories? But when you prioritize protein and you eat the amount of protein that you need to for high protein It's very satiating. It does blend your appetite and you end up eating less carbohydrates Yeah, especially from whole food sources. Oh, yes, you know, and that's the thing It's like it does seem counterintuitive to now up your protein But really it's just Reprioritized Reprioritizes your focus and that way when you're eating that first like a lot of times like I'm pretty much satisfied I don't I don't really need the excess of of carbohydrates that I would Otherwise well on the same way south. So this is how I start off too and what I always recognize for me It's to get that much protein. I have to I have to make choices that I normally wouldn't make so for example, like, you know really easily I would I would love to swing by a Chick-fil-A and have a you know Three, you know chicken sandwich, you know breakfast sandwiches without that but real quick I I I take in a thousand calories and a bunch of that is fat and it's low protein Even though it's a chicken sandwich or it's hadn't hit your target Yeah, it's still low on protein and I fill up a lot of my calories or something And then when I look at the end of the day, I go, oh crap I still didn't hit my protein intake So I got to get a meal that's much higher even more high or even higher on protein than what I was doing Having to prioritize that it just naturally eliminate some of the other choices that I would have made totally So if you're listening right now essentially you're aiming for anywhere between I don't know 0.6 0.7 grams of protein per pound of body weight All the way up to about a gram of protein per pound of body weight So for me, I try to do four meals of 50 grams of protein each and because I'm prioritizing protein That's the centerpiece of my meal. So when I start my meal, it's okay Can I get 50 grams of protein and I need to eat that first build around that And I know exactly and I need to eat that first Usually what ends up happening is it really it really blunts my appetite and I just eat less of everything else My calories and by the way four meals of 50 grams of protein is a lot of protein It takes a lot of effort to go get that so and real easily you get behind So if you decide you have like literally having uh four Four scrambled eggs a couple pieces of bacon and some toast is not enough It's not 50 grams of protein So even a meal like that that sounds like a relatively high protein meal If you ate that for your first meal and then you go into lunchtime having your second meal You're now 20 grams behind now. You need a 70 grand. So getting ahead of protein is is key So one of the things that I used to give as tips to clients Is whenever you make dinner, uh, whatever dinner you make The I always would make more with the meat and I would use that meat and I would add it into like a scramble It was like one for the next day. Yeah, because eggs are always an easy thing for morning time Right. So and then and then most people don't eat enough eggs. They don't want to eat six seven eight Yeah, not a lot of people are eating Yeah, seven or eight eggs right to get enough protein to hit like the targets that you're talking about So an easy way to do that is to throw like four ounces of meat in there with two or three eggs And now I've got like this scramble that it's closer to 45 50 grams of protein, right? So that's same thing. So what I do is I'll go, you know 50 grams for breakfast Then I'll have 50 grams for for lunch. I'll have something before dinner and then 50 grams For dinner and again if I eat that first and that's the priority I end up eating less calories and the higher protein tends to contribute to more muscle gain which speeds up the metabolism Now the second thing uh that I do um and this I like this because it's it's individual for the person, right? So we'll call it just cutting down on bad habits You know yourself very well. So think of the bad habits that you have for me One of the bigger bad habits that I have that contributes to eating too many calories is eating out So eating out when you when you eat out the typical Meal that you'll buy at a restaurant is around a thousand calories. It just is thousand plus or more, right? Even salads, you know, it's like you go to go to a cheesecake factory Because they actually list the calories, right? Look at their salads like 1500 calories 2000 calories for a salad So eating out when I don't eat out and I eat food that I cook Naturally, I end up eating less. So the first thing that I do for me Is I just start eating out much less and so it's a bad habit that I cut down But this is different from person to person. Yeah, and it also to me it also matters on how bad you abuse this, right? So like I'm with you mine used to be I'm signing more I used to be a big soda drinker Definitely eating out is one of them Um and even just eating sweets like, you know, we're on the holiday time right now And so there's a lot of sweets around the house and you know I tend to graze or pick right now and because I'm not following anything or I'm not strict on my diet And so I become aware of how much of that I'm doing If you're somebody and I've had clients I know Sal you've talked about your client. They used to drink like multiple cokes a day and stuff like that No water Yeah, so I don't when I when I say cut down on the bad habits It doesn't look like this doesn't go like oh, I drink three sodas a day and now it's a zero Exactly like I I'm I'm smart enough to know that doing that cold turkey is going to be really really tough for me To be consistent and stick to that. So I'm just realistic with what I do. I just look at oh, okay I was eating out like to your point Sal because that's one for me I'm eating out four times a week right now. I'm gonna cut that in half It's gonna I'm too. I'm gonna allow myself to still eat out two times But you know four times or even this shifting what I'm eating out You know like four times I'm eating out. They were five guys and you know pizza and something else like Okay, I'm at least going to make that shift from five guys and pizza to like chipotle and nick the greek You know, I'm gonna make a better choice If I that might be my first phase and so depending on How bad of a habit it is or how much of it you're abusing Will be how I would recommend where you go from here and you slowly start to change that and And this goes just like what we talk about with training I'm always trying to do the least amount as possible to elicit the most amount of change when we talk about exercise Well, the same thing applies for nutrition I'm always trying to change my nutrition with the least amount to elicit the most amount of change I just wanted to adjust a few things if I tighten up increase my protein Get rid of some a little bit of the processed food or eliminate some of these treats that I was doing Just that little bit of adjustment of increasing their protein and eliminating some of the other crappier foods My bot and I'm training my body will start to see change. Yeah, totally now I know I'm going to be alone here, but uh, you know, I'm the drinker of the group and uh, So this is something that I'm very conscious of you know, when it's when it's been, you know More frequent when I've been, you know, kind of backing off but You know, especially on the holidays, it's around a bit more and so I'm just more conscious of Not necessarily completely eliminating it But if I am drinking like I'm noticing too that like all the the mixed sodas and you know stuff with like even more sugar that's involved with that versus just I've kind of trained myself to to have a glass that I'm slowly sipping And that could be just like with whiskey on the rocks or something like that where it's just You know, you get you get sort of the feel from it But it's not quite as damaging in terms of calories and everything else for me the next day That's great advice, uh because uh mixed drinks have a lot of calories straight alcohol Especially if you just enjoy the taste of it, right Jessica used to do this, right? So you know, obviously before she got pregnant, she's breastfeeding She's not doing this but before that if we did drink that's what she would do She would have like this much whiskey she likes it without ice She's like it's straight in the glass and it would last her de straits straight straight I'll get you a hangover. Oh, bro. She drinks like it. She drinks like a Little bit of ice is good hydration. No, but she likes it So she'll have a little bit of I don't remember what her favorite brand She's gonna be mad that I didn't say it but like she'll have this much and it lasts for the whole night She enjoys it and it's way less calories than having a bunch of mixed drinks And that's exactly along the lines of cutting down on bad habits Another one that I do is I stop having the the trigger snacks in the house. So like for me Potato chips potato chips for me are it's drugs if it's in the house I'm gonna eat it and I'll buy it occasionally because I'll enjoy it with you know with the kids or I'll have a little here and there I just stopped buying it as much. So instead of having chips all the time I'll buy it maybe once a week and I'll buy out quick calories are so fast to consume. Yeah, because that's my bad habit This is where I see this I know this is in the bad habit category that to me even falls in the protein target because this starts to happen Like I always catch myself when I start paying attention to protein and going after it That part of the reason why I'm struggling hitting it or why I was truly is because of things like that Because sitting down and having you know, a couple handfuls of chips Which ends up being 500 calories and fills me up for a little while and get no protein from it or relatively no protein from it I know if I do that once or twice a day, there's no way I'm hitting my protein intake So just simply by targeting the protein I feel like those type of things have to kind of fall off and that's what I love about that That is the first step now the next step sounds like dieting, but it's not so you got to listen and give us a chance to explain So the next step is to track your food Now, here's what we mean by when we say track our track your food literally Just track it. Don't hit don't worry about calories. Don't worry about Fats and carbs. Just conscious of what you're doing. It's exactly what it is Studies show that when people simply track so they simply just write down or they have an app now apps I should say right I should say apps because that's easier Now when people have apps and they actually enter in the food and they see the calories and the and the grams of everything Just becoming aware people tend to Eat less or eat more consciously and make better choices Literally, it's not dieting just simply tracking it makes a huge difference I mean, I love this step no matter what because even if you are somebody who's going to progress and eventually die And get really serious about this. This is still the process. I take you through You still have to start so yeah So even if you're somebody who's like, I want to get ready for a stage out of I want to look like this like We still are going to go through these same phases and the first step of or the first step before you get to even considering dieting Is tracking and just becoming aware and that's really all it is Is just you becoming aware of what you're putting and it's funny that just people knowing that They make better choices even if you're not a dietitian You don't know everything about proteins fats and carbs just becoming aware of like holy crap I didn't realize that that thing I just had was 700 calories or was that much fat or that much sugar They start to you start to see that and becoming aware of those choices automatically starts to curb some of the things Well studies that compare mindfulness practices to diets show that the mindfulness practices actually are outperform Trying to hit specific targets really tracking is a form of a mindfulness practice So mindfulness practices are like not being distracted Paying attention to the taste of the food how you feel You know mindfully chewing every single bite tracking slows people down. It's the same thing It's just slowing you down your stop You're not just eating mindlessly your stop and if you look at here's a deal If you're somebody that eats mindlessly while you're watching tv or you're bored Driving or you're at a party and there's food you want to grab if you track everything you eat You're much more likely to stop because you're like, I don't want to write down I think that's a huge point on its own is to just slow down And I think that uh, we just get caught up in a lot of our our patterns throughout the day of what We usually do and to just now kind of like slow down Be conscious of what you're doing. It's going to change your behavior is like crazy Well, and just like back to the television point that you're making right now just simply tracking You can start to you can start to correlate things like this like oh, shit without even trying Right without even trying or saying you can or can't do something right? So no one's saying you can't eat in front of the tv No one's saying you can't do any of those things just just track it But because you're tracking you you know most people just becoming aware they go like oh wow look at that Every time I go to dinner and sitting around the tv. I'm eating an extra 600 700 calories at that time Wow, I wonder if I just didn't sit in front of the tv and had my dinner if that would make a difference So you'd be blown away. Well, what's funny is when I would recommend this to clients They would struggle to track the snack foods and it wasn't because It wasn't because it was hard to do it's because they literally didn't want to yes, and I'd say well Why don't you lock it out? I'd say why don't you want to know because then it's real then they actually really did it So really it's a mindfulness But if you just make the rule that you track everything with no targets no goals nothing like that no judgment You just naturally start to make better choices Now the next step is by far the most effective way I've ever gotten anybody to do cardio Throughout the day. It's the most effective thing Rather than scheduling cardio rather than doing a 30 minutes when you wake up or whatever Just make this rule right here that you go for a 10 minute walk after each meal. That's it 10 minute walk after breakfast lunch and dinner. By the way, it's very easy to do this 10 minutes doesn't is easy to find right after breakfast or lunch or dinner It's very very and just make it 10 minutes But obviously if you do it for breakfast lunch and dinner what you've done is you've had 30 minutes Of walking cardio in your day, but there's some additional benefits to this When you walk right after you eat it speeds up and helps with digestion studies prove this It also improves insulin sensitivity So down the road by the way when your body's more sensitive to insulin You're less likely for your body to want to store body fat and of course Probably reduces your risk of getting issues later on like diabetes or insulin insensitivity problems. So What 10 minutes that's all it is 10 minutes after every meal Super easy rule and it injects just the 30 just 30 minutes of cardio and behaviorally if you you know attach it to something like that Like where you you're always eating, you know And this is something that now is a ritual after you're done You're a lot more likely to keep repeating the process of this and then we've just seen this over and over again I love this one. I mean, this is one of my favorite things And I also we didn't touch on this and this has nothing related to losing body fat But I mean the opportunity to walk with your partner I mean the opportunity to walk and do some activity like that and have that alone time. It's a I don't know. I think today it just it's so hard to find that with All of us having our phones attached to us all the time and constantly getting dings from Emails and social media and whatever work stuff Just to completely separate from that and be right there with your partner having a conversation Yeah, you're getting your you're digesting your food better like sal saying you're also burning your burning calories You're walking you're moving so there's benefits there too. So I've just I had so much more success Teaching clients to do things like this than I ever did to getting them to like get on elliptical for, you know 30 minutes every single day and that actually becoming it's also just easy to Digest and I don't mean the physical sense. I mean just the processing sense like think about 10 minutes You just simple. Yeah, you just finished eating lunch. It's 12 30. I can walk till 12 40 I mean, it's it really is that easy rather than saying 30 minutes If I say go do 30 minutes of cardio be like, I don't know 30 minutes That's a big commitment 10 minutes after each one. Well, and you know what and I love that and What it leads to though many times you go much longer That's what's great about because you're only committing to like I just got to do 10 minutes That's all I have to do and there's gonna be times when you're pressed And you only and you don't really want to do anything Which you at least do your 10 minutes and then you're done and whatever But then there's gonna be a lot of times when you're like enjoying the walk Or you're enjoying the conversation that you're having with a person that's on the walk with you And 10 minutes turns into 20 to 30 to sometimes 40 or an hour And now you've got this great activity that you probably wouldn't have done had you not made that commitment And now you can multitask with this too So if you're gonna be on a phone call for work or a meeting you could do it in the 10 minutes You can meet with people over 10 minutes. Hey go for a walk with me. Let's have a conversation Or if you're learning something Put on your your headphones or whatever your earpods Earpods and walk for 10 minutes after each meal and listen to something that's gonna, you know inform you Now the next one is is is also one of my favorites and again It's really it's the way it influences your behaviors that makes it so effective And that is to aim for a half to one gallon of water every day now Physiologically speaking if you're more hydrated, you're less likely to eat more Your appetite's better so you tend to eat less being hydrated gets your body to work better less inflammation It's better for your health less joint pain But here's really what ends up happening when you drink half a gallon to a gallon of water every day You're not drinking anything else. You're not drinking anything else and you tend to eat less Yeah, and and you get up and be more suppressive and you get up to pee more You know, it's funny when I would have my clients aim for a gallon a day I used to I would track them with like these devices that would track their steps You'd see their steps go up. Yeah, and it's because they go up to go to the back And you know, it might sound funny, but it actually makes a big difference just that little bit of activity So literally what you do and this is how I I end up doing it for myself and how I would do it for my clients I would have them either have a container that was a half a gallon to a gallon Or uh, they would go buy one you can buy water in the gallon And that's how they'd start their day and they know they need to finish that by the end of the day There's just so many benefits that like it's weird like once you really start focusing on being hydrated Like what that does in terms of even mental clarity a lot of times like having this brain fog a lot of times being dehydrated Like there's this achiness and in my joints and that's being hydrated And there's just all these things that you don't really consider But I mean your body is is mostly comprised of water and let's you know, make sure that we're keeping it Fueled up many times people confuse hunger with that right? So a little dehydration sometimes will make you think that you're hungry Then all of a sudden you drink a bunch of water and you're not hungry anymore And I used to get a lot of shit for because I used to tell everybody a gallon And you know and because of all the research around you know Based off the size of somebody that that that's a gallon is way more than what they need But the the truth is a gallon of water a day is not going to hurt anybody So even if that's more than somebody who weighs 112 pounds technically needs to be drinking It's just a good target. It's a good simple target shoot for a gallon of water a day Keep yourself busy all day long if being all day long all those things have its benefits And I love it as from the behavioral angle like you said Sal is that Even though it's it has other benefits to it just simply having a habit of drinking that you Naturally start to eliminate all the other things without telling them they can't have it Yeah, you know, it's funny when I would have this is this was like clockwork This is my own experience. So this might not happen for you But like clockwork when I would have clients successfully hit about a gallon of water every single day Like clockwork they would lose anywhere between four to seven pounds Like almost everybody would lose weight just from drinking water And it was funny because they think it was magic like oh, yeah water's making my metabolism burn more calories I'm like without realizing it. You're just not drinking anything else And and also here's the other thing too when you drink and you're well hydrated and you drink a good amount of water You probably will hold less water less bloat in your body And so you tend to lose water weight. I know it sounds counter because you're drinking more water But this is what ends up happening. You end up holding less water in your body And the interesting part about this is we didn't even talk about resistance training, right? So I mean this whole thing is about how to lose fat just easy steps Yeah, just if you just did this heaven forbid you add in a resistance day training or two or three in there And that's only going to accelerate the results you get from this But this is without following a strict meal plan This is out telling you you can't do a bunch of things if you just make these if you just follow these five steps And you're really good about it, you know 99 percent of the people are gonna see some results 100 percent You will and my experience just clients doing this what we just said consistently would typically result in Around 15 pounds of fat loss. That's no joke 15 pounds and that's pretty good And we're talking about pure body fat just from doing these things that we just talked about right here So again a little recap step number one hit those protein targets step number two Just start cutting down on your bad habits. You know, which ones you have so make them personal individual step number three Just start tracking don't aim for anything in particular Just pay attention track use a an app like fat secret On your phone super easy to use step number four do a short walk after breakfast lunch and dinner aim for 10 minutes That's it just 10 minute walk after breakfast lunch and dinner Nothing in addition to that and then step number five aim for half a gallon to a gallon of water Every single day if you just do those things You will see some fat loss Look mind pump is recorded on video as well as audio come find us on youtube mind pump podcast You can also find all of us on instagram You can find justin at mind pump justin me at mind pump sal adam at mind pump adam and dug the producer at mind pump dug Bar and i'll show you this whatever and i'm like, oh i can't i can't go to bars Like oh you don't drink because of fitness like no, i'm not old enough. He's like no i'll get out of here I showed him my license. He almost fell out of chair. Do you know who they thought i was? Oh 32 I teach yourself, bro. I thought i was 32 years old. That's funny. Uh, it's not that funny. You're mature. Yeah, i know