 The Independent International Electoral Commission, INAG, has directed the People's Democratic Party in Abia State to conduct a fresh primary election in the next 14 days to replace its governorship candidate, Professor Uche Eliezer Iconi, who died in Abuja. A statement from Iconi's family said he died of multiple cardiac arrest. In directing the PDP to replace its governorship candidate, INAG clarified that the Deputy governorship candidate of the party could not automatically assume the position of the humanitarian candidate since the election was not yet done. Joining us to discuss this is Tungi Abdulamid, he's a member of the Quora State PDP Presidential and State Campaign Council, and also joining us is John Shuaibu, he's a member of the People's Democratic Party Presidential Campaign Council. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us. Good evening. Good evening, Jasmine. Can you hear me? Great, great, great. I'm going to start with you, John. It's very interesting that may not be a positive reason why we're here, but unfortunately Iconi has passed, but then the PDP seems to be faced with a few days to produce a new governorship candidate for the party. That means, of course, the party needs to look within, but what's most important is that when the primary was done in Abia State, the chairman of the party and of course the governor of the state had not been seeing eye to eye. So again, we wonder, how is this going to happen without feathers being ruffled? First of all, I did condolence to the family of Iconi and to the PDP family worldwide for the loss of a professor who unfortunately passed on due to ill health. Anybody can die at any time, but the loss is painful, and many of the statuses were taken yesterday in a boning for him. But having said that, the running back to between the governor and chairman, I think it's not something that will hinder or smooth problems that are going on now, because if you look at it, the chairman is the father of the party, and of course, as the father of the party, he wants everyone included in the whole process, and the governor is not excluded from it. So I believe for the main part that we want to win and to win well nationally, the chairman will also want a situation where they shall be in need of purpose. Now, how do we harmonize this, depends on the position of the governor who has been running back to. But for me, I don't see a governor who has to give a challenge to the smooth running of the primaries, and then the construction is there, that will guide, and everything I believe will go smoothly, as I will not be determined by, I'll be determined at the end of the primaries. So for me, there should be an issue with the crisis, similar crisis between the chairman and the governor, which of course, you know, starts from the G5 issue. Let me, let me piece you forward, but now we know that this is the modus operandi, whether it's spoken, it's formally agreed to or not. And the governors always pick their preferred predecessors, and that's who they put, you know, front as the party's flag bearer. And we know that this is who Iqbalzou preferred as his, you know, the person that he's going to, you know, going to come after him. He preferred him as the presidential, I beg your pardon, the governorship candidate. Does this not seem as a setback for him, because you know again, he must have had his reasons for picking Iqbalzou to be the man who will succeed him. I'm asking once again, knowing that Iqbalzou is part of the G5 governors, and the situation between the G5 governors and the chairman or the national chairman of your party, will this not be a big setback, not just for the party, because again, if the governor was the one who picked, and now the party has to superintendent, and this, there's no love lost between these two, how are we certain that this will be a very smooth process, knowing what's already on the ground? Well, first of all, the national chairman can't micromanage the promise. The people in Abya, the Philippines take hold of Abya, know exactly who they want to, you know, to run that position. You know, the governor, who I would say similarly, have a net profit, economy as his preferred candidate, of course, probably will have somewhere to throw into the into the game again. But I believe that the whole mechanism of people, whoever is popular, because I believe the governor also wants someone that can win election, because we don't have days, whoever is coming will be a fresh person right now. So we don't have time to really look for an impact into the, that will play the game of someone that is unpopular. Therefore, we will have that time. So the governor also, I think, will take confidence out of this and will want someone that could actually continue his program at the end of the day. So he will want to bring in someone who will not continue his program, who will want to lose the election because we have other candidates, strong candidates in Abya that will actually push for that job in Abya. So I believe at the end of the day, there will be a synergy between the National Working Committee and the state governor and also the state called out in Abya, who already, I believe, are prepared for now. We have four candidates that are ready to go for the fourth February election. So I don't know, I think we will be to play out. And I don't know, they will come atop of it and get the best candidate that will run the election and give us victory in Abya. Tunji, let me come to you. Replacing economy, like I said earlier on, might be a very tough job for the people of the PDP in Abya state. Again, knowing that Iconne was not just any governorship candidate, a professor, someone who knows his onion, how easy will it be for the Abya state PDP to shop for yet another candidate? Yes, there were those who, one way or the other, contested side by side Iconne, but Iconne imagined. And like I said earlier on, there's something that the governor must have seen in him. It's 14 days that the PDP has to make sure that they shop for somebody and he emerges. How easy a task is that going to be? Before I go into that, let me also condone the people of Abya state and the PDP family in general. I think it may not be a difficult situation for them to be able to get another right to a person. You know, it wasn't it wasn't only him that showed interest initially. There are other people who showed interest. Only that the people or the party in the state prefer the. I'm talking about the PDP members that prefer the Iconne. And probably the governor also supported Iconne gave his support to Iconne to imagine. I think there won't be any more pressure or problem in picking other candidates because he wasn't the only person to conduct who showed interest. There are other aspirants and I believe out of all of them there are other people who are more competent to also do the job. He may he wasn't the he just be fortunate to win the primary. It may not be the even the most qualified. There are other people who may be more qualified. Maybe probably because of something of the other he has an edge because of certain support or maybe other certain influence in quotes he might. So shopping shopping for another candidate may not be a big deal because there are people already on grant who are interested as we speak people are already just a loving in between. To be able to say, look, I want to be the next governor of the state or the candidate of the PDP as it may be. So I think it won't be difficult for them to get another candidate as this. It won't be. Let's look at the situation of his death. Unfortunately, we have to discuss that on the show. He did die as a result of cardiac arrest. Now looking at politicians, especially at the federal level, many there's been a lot of banter about health and, you know, if the these people who are contesting for these positions are in the best state of health, they have a clean bill of health. Should this not be a major consideration? Not necessarily for the party, but for whoever is running and who the people who surround them to make sure that they have a clean bill of health to avoid, you know, these kinds of circumstances. For example, seven people would say that they are OK, the doctors say they can do it. But half the time, if you do have something that, you know, a terminal disease of sorts, it can one way or the other show its ugly head, especially with the stress of running around and campaigning, especially for the presidential candidates. But in this case, should this not be something that parties must, you know, press upon the candidates, especially for for a situation that has just come out few days to the election? You see, in as much as I believe that one is important as well, for us, for anybody who wants to become a governor, a House of Representatives or president or whatever, to have a clean bill of health, you see the sickness does not determine who will die first or whatever. So there are some people who have been breathing for years or months. They are still alive. There are some people who don't have any sign of a sickness and they are dead. So it's not the fact that you have a clean bill of health does not guarantee that you will die or you will not die. So as a human being, we need to be assured that look, we are fit, we are OK. And for me, in that regard, it would be better for us to have a medical check for all people who want to aspire to hold any position, elective position in this country. Because we are aspiring to be able to occupy any position in this country at all. It's enough big deal to have an issue with your head because there are a lot of problems that are constructed. So if you are not too fit, if you are not too physically and mentally fit, you may even have your problem become bigger. You see, I'm not a medical doctor, but we hear that once you are 40, you are prone to have one medical challenge or the other if you cannot. So it depends on how you manage it. And as people have been going around with a different kind of disease or challenges for years, and they are still alive, and there are some that will just start in the day. And the next day, you want to hear that they are dead. So the issue of it may not be the issue of having a certificate, may not be the diastolic to determine whether or not you will die or you will not die. But to answer your question directly, I think it's important for us to be on the safe side to at least have your medical check to know whether you are even having any major terminal disease or you don't have any terminal disease because the job itself comes with another problem, which may even affect your health. Okay, let me come back to you, John. Again, I'm retraiting the pressures that come with running for office at whatever level, whether it be at the state level, at the federal level, there are pressures that come with it. The fact that you have to go around and campaign and do a lot of media rounds, the pressures are there, we can all see. But I'm most curious as to why Nigerian politicians never make their health status public. And I'm going to go back down memory lane. Remember the former president, Yaradua, and the stories that were fueled by suspicion as to his health, and he was continuously covered up until he passed, unfortunately. We've also seen a sitting president going abroad every single time for medical checks, etc. And none of this information has been made public. We just hear that he's going to get himself checked. But in other climes, if the president, his wife, somebody in the cabinet is diagnosed of something, they make it public. So people understand that this is what he's going through. But in Nigeria, that's not even, it's not on the table, it's not in the cards. Why is that the situation? Is it because, I mean, I'm wondering, should that not be a true test of some form of level of trust that the people should have or share with whoever the person is? Well, like Tugirani said, the issue of health challenge, you can't actually, you know, pinpoint or say exactly who would die and who would die, right? And some illnesses come even via the job description. I don't know the way you get to the job, some illness that can spring up, which wasn't there before because you have, you know, things that will come into play that you need to deal with, you know. But I haven't said that, you know, Africans do what we have. You know, nobody wants to deal with what we've done with them. You know, we have, we were talking about different climes. How do we, we see things or view things when the council suddenly thinks it's quite different? But I think if it's put in the law, that should be supplied. But also, the question is, will we be able to trust our health system to give everyone, you know, a clean bill that goes to the right bill, the right, what do we call it, the pot? Because there is probability also of reading the report. So you're saying to me, so you're telling me, John, that you do not trust the Nigerian health system. So you'd be one of those people who would be okay with our leaders continuously going on their health tourism abroad because they don't trust the country's doctors. But then these same doctors are the ones who are doing great abroad, who are actually running away from your country. No, no, that is not the point. For instance, when President Buari, we saw when he came in, he went to where he was going abroad to get a window for treatment. But he's not quite healthy right now. If you can hold it, you didn't die in the office. So silent things come up with age. It comes up with circumstances. So running, even in the office, you're running away. So for me, let us put into law that we can, you know, we cannot play out for every other country. I think it's very important, actually, because there's no need to put people on a good account of pressure where you have to be second guessing your leaders for some of their health issues where they can really govern the way they're supposed to govern due to their mental capacity and physical ability. So it's quite important that we're actually, maybe they will give the law, the electoral law, to say, no, let's include it in there. So I will know exactly what is the health status of everyone. But I want to illustrate it again. There must be a way you can check because if you bring it to a screening committee for inside of the parties, how do they now confirm what the report has been brought? So it's going to be a whole process. Maybe within the process, even for, you know, the finance submission of names, they probably, the party will also have to run their own, even if the candidate has to bring their report from the public and the hospital. So it is a 50-50 thing. So I believe though, it is put into law, it will work for us and will have a better, you know, candidates that will run governance for us appropriately and not run abroad every time, every week that they want to go for their health, health, what they call, checkup. But that also, you know, indicts the health system. Why is it that the health system is not working? Why do they have to go abroad? That they have to, they can do that here. They can do the checkup here. They can treat them here. If the health system is put into place where it wants to respond to quality health facilities, you have doctors, they have no japa, you know, we will have a situation with certain issues that everyone, you know, are enjoying health challenges who have been sorted out before traveling abroad. So for me, it's, you just have to put into law. If not, there's no law saying anyone should tell us what is health part of things. I think there is a patient, doctor, privacy situation. There is no law. I don't have to declare. Tunji, should this not necessarily be a morality issue as opposed to something that we should be legislating upon? Again, I go back to saying, in other climes, let's say for example, the president has Parkinson's or whatever it is, because again, with age comes all sorts of things. And sometimes you're young and healthy, but these things show up. And knowing that as these diseases continues to spread or you're managing it, it might affect your job. What's wrong with coming out playing to say, well, this is what I'm dealing with and we're hoping that we can manage it and I can still serve you as the people. Will that not one way or the other bridge the trust deficit gap that we're experiencing in the country, Tunji? Yeah, all is about trust. It's about the trust in the system, trust in our people, trust in our, because you see, we are African. And most times people, the way we think it, it depends on the way they think it. When we are sick, some people, we won't tell you, don't tell anybody we are sick. That when you tell people, they will compare it for you. I don't know where the kind I believe from. So the people believe that exposing your etch, a challenge, may even that gravates the etch itself, to the challenge itself. So the trust is what our problem is. But whether or not we put it in the law, whether or not it's even moral, whether if we say okay, every candidate or every aspirant must submit his medical report or must be cleared by a medical team or whatever for him to contest. I tell you, everybody will be cleared. Let me give, why I say so? For you to be a minister, for you to be this and that, you must be cleared by the DSS of lack of all corrupt cases on the other team. You will be cleared. They will do checks on you, they will run a check on you. And the check will come clear. As you become the, you become a minister or whatever, the issue that I have done five years after or six years after will be raised by the same people who cleared it. So you can see where I have the problem. In other words, people will have their way when it comes to, I want to get clear as, they know how to get it. So the trust in the system is the problem. We don't have people who say, look, I have a job to do and my job is to do the writing, not to favor anybody. Everybody will be cleared, that is the truth. No matter how much I said that person is not the party or whoever that is there, I'm not in support of being a candidate or whatever. That's why they will raise the issue. But if they want him to be the candidate, I assure you, when the ex-satus will be, whether or not he has the challenges or he doesn't have any challenges, it will be a clean bill. So we need to build on that trust in the system. We don't need to have people who will see that, look, we must do the writing. I don't see challenges, anybody can forsake. Anybody can get any diagnosis for any sickness. So not exposing it to me as far as I'm concerned, I don't see what is bad in it. But when in Africa, we are able to see it as taboo for you to disclose your challenges. So I think to me it's a matter of, we compare ourselves with the people abroad. We are not the same with them in this part of our country. We complain about our presidential candidate being a 70 or whatever. And we applaud the US having about 80 years as a candidate or as president even. So we have a different situation in this country. And we need to, like I said earlier on, it is not about your age. It is not about whether you have a test or medical report or not. There are people who don't have any challenge at all. They will just fall down and die. So suddenly it happens. So what we need to do is that we need people who be sincere to say, look, I have these challenges. I have this problem. Going into this job will create more effort for me and for my state or for my people or whatever and not going to it. When you have big like a life terminal disease and you see what to engage yourself in this kind of a job, you are creating more problem for yourself in terms of age, as far as I'm concerned, because the job of governing people, the job of implementing people is more tasking. It can even give you more at a task than even when you don't even have anything at all. So I think like you said, I want to agree with you. It's a moral thing. Everybody should just say, look, I have a job. I have this problem. Let me be open. If people can say, look, now we're standing in your challenges, we want you to go out in the centers. That would be a different case. But just expose yourself first. Let's know what you have. Let's know what's happening to you. Let's know your challenges. Nobody is above this basic. Nobody is a, we are all Roman people. Can force it anytime. Anybody can die anytime. So as far as I'm concerned, it's not going to be an issue. It's a big moral issue. Whether you make it a law or not, we may see not be able to. Because in Nigeria, I've always been maintained that law is not our problem. But obeying the law and enforcing the law is our problem. If we make it the law, they will see it by passing the law. And think that we're not supposed to be done, we'll still be done. Let me come back to you, John. Still talking, staying with health issues. This morning I listened to a conversation with the NDLEA boss and former military governor, military administrator of Lagos State, Puba Mara. And he talked about the necessity, in fact, that they're pushing a bill right now in the works to make sure that all persons who are running for public office will go through a drug test. What's your take on this? I agree with him. When it comes to drug tests, I agree with him because, you know, drug has a will in placing you of taking the wrong decision. So you can't trust someone, for instance, who is the number one position, who is the drug addict, for instance. And probably when he's high, or she's high, she decides to take decisions that can destroy the nation in one stroke. You know, for instance, if you have a prisoner who has drug issues or who is a drug addict, you can understand what will happen if you decide to take some executive action without recall to the fact that is he right or wrong? You know, he's influenced by the drug, are you irrational in thinking? So I think that, for me, is very important. We need to do that. We need to get that into law. Everyone must get more tested for drug intake. That is important for me. Okay, Tungi, finally, before we wrap things up here, if we say that it's okay to legislate on drugs, how about psych evaluations? How about alcoholism? All of these things, do they not, one way or the other, affect one's thinking and the decision-making process? I think most of these things, what they complain is excessive use of it. I think that's because there are some drugs, there are some medications. There are these drugs that are intoxicated, that affects your psyche sometimes or have an influence on you sometimes and some of them are not a drug or whatever. So I think being a drug addict, like you said, may affect your decision whenever things are not on your high and then it may take decision and it may affect the entire country and even go away. So if you want to do that, how sure do we have the, are we going to put in place machinery that will be cleaned, that will be opened, that will be transparent to be able to say, look, this person is this and that and how many, how long is it? Because if I know I'll be going for tests and I know I want to go to test selection, I may try to strain from it for maybe a year or two to be able to at least complete for the drug test and then after, upon crossing the road, I go back to where I come from. The other issue, you see, it's not about, what we need is, many people with sincerity, many people will say, look, I am not fit for this job, I'm not caught for this job, I can't do this thing, I can't do that. And I think that's all we need, not just a law, we have a law in this country as far as I'm concerned. There is law, we have a law in this country, they're following the law and forcing the law has been a problem as far as I'm concerned. It is not about the law, there is law already that forbids you from taking a drug, people are taking it. All right, what I'm saying is, I believe, I also believe that the people have a duty to also ensure that whoever they are bringing right to fall should be people of good character because that is very important, that is why we need to have a good, you know, the accession of the people because the kind of people you bring for, you know they have a health challenge, it's from the local area, you know they have a health challenge, you can't say why. And you know they are drug addicts. Talk about politics. And you should bring them. I should bring them, that's the problem. Okay, well, we gotta go guys. We're gonna jump in. Thank you, time is not our friend. Tungi Abdulamid is a member of the Choir State PDP Presidential and State Campaign Council and also he's a legal practitioner. We also want to say thank you to John Schreiber who's a member of the PDP Presidential Campaign Council. Thank you so much gentlemen for having this conversation with me. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you for staying with us. We will take a quick break now. When we return, we'll be discussing the sacking of Oshun State Governor Adimullah Delike by a tribunal in Oshun State. Stay with us.