 of the battle of the sexes, and I'm delighted to have next to me Grandmaster Jean-Sahab Dumalik and Grandmaster Ravi Haria. You had a very interesting game. What are your impressions? What are your feelings about it? How did it go? Until which point was your preparation? Until move one, I guess. Oh, really? Actually, yeah. I mean, his main line is French defense. So I was preparing only Essex. And I was kind of surprised when he played E5. So I thought, OK, I mean, usually I play Italian or the Rue Lopez. And this time, I was like, OK, I should surprise him. And I played scotch. Yeah, just to try it. I mean, I had no idea what was happening after native six. So do you ever play the E5 move? Is it also in your repertoire, or was it prepared just for today? No, I've played it before. I guess you saw that I played it a few times, yeah? But OK, I played like 99% of the time I'm playing French. Yeah, but after scotch, I didn't know what was your line. Oh, yeah, because no one's ever played scotch against me. Yeah, so I thought, OK, maybe if we shop C5, it's fine. We shop before fine. But 9 of 6 is kind of, yeah. Yeah, I checked 9 of 6 before the game. But not so much compared to Italian and Spanish. But it's pretty bad because after you played 9 of 2, I just forgot everything. All right, so after 9 of 6, 9 of 6 is 6. D takes C6. If I followed now, Queen is 7, Queen E2. 95, C4, Knight B6. And here is the moment you were talking about, Knight to D2. Is it a move that you prepared at some point or remembered slightly or? No, I mean, OK, I just remember some general stuff in scotch, but not like the right theory. So I thought, OK, let's try Knight D2. I mean, I was thinking of B3 or Knight C3, but I thought after B3, he will play this A5. I mean, I think it's probably fine for White, but I didn't want to check this. So I just played 92. All right, and you were surprised by this move, right? Yeah, it's a bit annoying because I checked Knight C3 and B3. And I didn't check Knight D2, so, yeah. I mean, it's probably in my file. And I probably did check it, but I just forgot because there was a lot to check. Yeah, and she played it quickly, so I assume that it was some... Sort of preparation, right? Yeah, or just a main line, because it probably could be. Because I just don't play this ever. Yeah, I was kind of trying to pretend that, you know, I'm just controlling the situation. Yeah, yeah. It's very interesting. All right, so later, you chose A5. Yeah, I don't... This is either a move or it's just really stupid because it makes sense if you play B3. It kind of makes sense against Knight C3. But maybe it just... Again, I don't know, like, I'm really clueless in this position, so, yeah. Oh, wow. Jean-Claire, what were you thinking after his A5? No, yeah, I thought that it's kind of strange because I didn't play B3, so... I think it's like I prepared A5 against Knight C3. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know. I think White may be slightly better. I thought it was okay for me. So, Queen E4, you chose, then Queen E6 followed. We were trying to make some sorts of D5 work here, but I guess you still wanted to keep the queens on board, right? Yeah, I wasn't sure, because the only things I know about this position is either I can lose really quickly if I don't know what I'm doing or that, like, a lot of end games are just better for White. And again, I was just trying not to lose really. It sounds bad, like, already a move 10. Yeah, it's just like it's probably one of the worst openings you can be clueless in, because... Yeah, it's very interesting to see you both, you know, somehow playing at the board mostly, but it was an interesting fight, so let's have a look. Please stop me when you think was the next critical moment, Queen E6. But is Queen E6 like... I played it and then I thought it doesn't really make any sense, but maybe it's fine. Yeah, I thought that, also, I mean, like, why do you play Queen E6? What's the idea? Because I played it, because I've seen this move a lot in scotch positions. Yeah, but... I assumed that it would help with F5 or D5. But then after you played Bishop D3, I was like, yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to make a short castle and then F4 somewhere trying to push in. I mean, actually, I wanted to play F4 even before you play Queen E6. I mean, that's the idea, but after Queen E6, I think it's just, I mean, it was just a temple of F5. I mean, I'm just attacking your Queen and then, so... Yeah. Yeah. I was happy, actually, after you played Queen E6. Yeah. Because here, my idea was to play G6, Bishop G7. But it actually looks really scary. Like, if she just castles, Bishop G7. I mean, you don't even have to defend D5 if you don't want to. Like, Queen H4, maybe? No, I mean, after G6, I think the black squares are kind of weak, I don't know. I think it's very comfortable for white. Maybe just... Yeah. Still F4, yeah. Yeah, probably F4 is fine. And then 9 is 3, I don't know. It just looked horrible, to be honest, yeah. All right, so you played Bishop A6 instead. And actually, I was also quite happy about white's position in this game so far. I thought you would be better, but I don't know where it went wrong if it did at all. Because we are also not using engines, so we are not entirely sure. Yeah, well, maybe here, I made a castle and then I just kind of missed F5. Because after F5, I can't take on F5 or play F6 because the pawn on C4 is hanging, so... Right. Yeah, so maybe first I should play B3, yeah, just... Instead of castle. Instead of castle, it's just to protect the pawn on C4 and then just... I think just castle, F4, I mean, everything is just coming. Yeah. Very comfortable for white. So, yeah, after I played this castle, F5. F5 was, yeah, indeed, a very interesting resource. Oh, I have to play it, I mean... Yeah. What else? Right. Yeah. So, yeah, Q2. And G6 now. Yeah, after G6, I thought, okay, B3, like what happened in the game. And then Bishop G7, I was checking Bishop A3. Yeah, maybe I can play... D6. And then C5. D6, C5. Yeah, that was the line that I was checking. Bishop D3, Queen takes. You take on C5, I take with Bishop, you must play Kf7, and I wasn't sure about this position. Like I wanted to play Nf3, but I don't know if you just make some... Trying to fork, yeah. Yeah, just H6 maybe. I mean, still, it's kind of not easy to find a plan, I think, for white because you just play HD8 and then you have the square on D5. Yeah, right. It definitely looks interesting, but what you played in the game also looked fine, right? F4? Or didn't you like it later? No, we was fine, but I was just thinking of Bishop A3. Yeah, sure. What did you have in mind after Bishop A3? Were you afraid of this one? Yeah, I mean, initially I was like, because I hesitated before playing Bishop G7. Because I saw Bishop A3. I didn't know what to do. Because initially I was thinking, instead of... Oh, no, it's my move. I was thinking here, Kf7 maybe. Hi. But then out of three, H6. It looks, I don't really want to play H6 because it's like, at some point she'll play G4 probably. Or H4, H5, yeah. And it looks really dodgy. And then, so then I was thinking, okay, I don't want this to happen. And I can't castle queenside instead of Kf7 because she has C5. Oh, wait, here. Yeah, I was actually waiting kind of earlier. C5 is strong. Yeah, everywhere just C5. I was thinking to play Kd8 instead of Kf7. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Kd8? Yeah, because, I mean, it's not so stupid, I don't think. Okay, I mean. Then I should have tried, you know, Bishop A3. No, no, but then I saw D6 wasn't so bad. And then I was like, okay, I have to play D6. Yeah, Kd8 is probably you're doing very well. But it's probably the best of all the King moves. Like I can't go Kf7 or castle queenside, so. Yeah, but still, I mean, I mean, if after D6 I don't have anything, then it's just fine for you. Yeah, I didn't actually look at C5 after D6. I just looked at, I just had to check that e takes D6 wasn't strong for you, but it's not. Like I can take on e2 and take on a1 as well. Yeah, you would just take and there is not enough of conversation I guess. All right, so it seems like it was one of them critical moments of the game. This bishop A3, instead you played F4. Yeah, just now castle, knight F3. Yeah, I was a bit surprised because you were playing quite quickly here. And I thought maybe like. Okay, I thought that was just some easy moves here. Yeah. Like a must play knight F3 and then A4, just. Yeah, sure. Yeah, maybe you're right. No, like knight F3 is probably fine. Yeah, yeah, knight F5 was fine. I was checking maybe you'll play H6. Oh yeah, no, there's chances. Yeah, C5. Yeah, I didn't actually see A4 at all. And then you play it and I was like, that's probably quite a good move. Yeah, A4, I was quite happy with A4, but after you played bishop B7, I think bishop A3 was really stupid because I mean, black once played D6 anyway and while I'm playing this bishop A3, I'm just losing a tempo and my bishop is kind of strange. I think better was just to play bishop B2 and you know, to prepare for this idea with D6, rook E8 and 97. Yeah, but how do you even? I thought that I'll go kind of like rook AE1 and then queen F2 maybe, like D6 here, rook AE1. Rook FE8. Rook FE8 and queen F2, this is what I wanted actually. But maybe here you can even take, right? On F3. Yeah, I didn't like that you can take on F3 with I mean with bishop and then. Queen takes? Yeah, queen takes. Maybe you can, oh, here is fine, right? I mean, if you take on E5, I'll just take with a bishop and if, yeah, just better for me, of course. If you play 97, then maybe I have. Is this so good for you? Bishop takes, bishop takes, E5. Yeah, I think so, of course. What do you take with rook E5, queen D6? And then, I don't know. Yeah, I believe I also thought that white was better, but I was not sure about that bishop on D3 because it looks a bit strange, right? Yeah. Yeah, but you should always check these ideas of taking on F5 somewhere, maybe? Or G4, I don't know. Right. I was gonna say king F7 here, but maybe you can take on F5. Maybe just immediately taking. That would be very interesting to see these sort of lines on the board. Probably I can take on E5 here. Rook takes E5. Bishop, pawn takes. Queen D4. King H1. And take F5. Queen takes. King is seven, I mean. E7. Okay, well, maybe. Well, also the G file is possible. Well, okay, I always have a draw. I mean, I can just. Yeah, yeah, you do. Yeah, but maybe I can also play something like rook F1 after king G8. Rook F1, right. Why not to try, I don't know. 97? Oh, no, yeah, it's probably okay. 97, E6? Wow, what a position. We have gone, I think, already 10 moves here into the line. Yeah, okay, okay, we can go back. Good to look at, yeah. Well, it's definitely not stupid. I'm very happy to listen to all these lines which you've checked during the game, but you've played bishop A3, yeah, you decided you disliked this one. And after D6, were you starting to get worried about the position or were you confident it's all right? Yeah, after I think I played rook E1, he played rook E8, and here I just, I mean, I realized that after bishop F3, maybe my pawn on A5 is just weak, I don't know. I mean, even if I have two bishops, my bishop on D3 is not that strong, I guess. And yeah, I was worried that he'll take on F3. So I played bishop B2, I think it was the only move to protect the pawn. And then I played bishop F7, yeah, and here I didn't know what to do. I mean, like, I can't take on D6 because he would just take on E2 and then my bishop on B2 is just hanging. Right. Yes, so I played bishop C3. I mean, I was just waiting for his move, I guess. And I was actually worried about bishop F3 here. Did you consider this one? Yeah, rook takes F3. Yeah, rook takes F3 and then takes on E5. And F takes? And I mean, you're not in a hurry. So I thought like, maybe you can just play rook E7 and like, prepare this, take it on E5. And I didn't know, I mean, like, maybe I can try something like, I don't know, rook E3. Rook A5, I suppose, right? It was the A5 hands always, yeah? Yeah, but after you take on E5, I mean, maybe with bishop, then I can't play because bishop D4 is always coming or bishop H2, I don't know. So if you go, instead of rook E3, if you play king H1. Ah, you just want to get ready so that bishop D4 won't happen. I mean, there's no reason to play rook E3, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but maybe you can play queen B6, E7 first. I should play bishop C2 maybe. And then play rook E8. I mean, maybe it was fine, but okay, that's what I... You were worried about this one, right? Because after you take on E5, I thought, okay, just equal, maybe I'm a bit better. Did you consider also fxE5 because that was somehow my way of trying to continue? Yeah, I didn't like this idea with bishop F3 taking, so of course, I mean, I was just... Ah, that's why you wanted to... Because now I can actually choose whenever I want to take on E3. Yeah, and it's kind of annoying, you know? All right, yes. All right, so knight E5, you took here. Yeah, I was thinking of taking with bishop or pawn, I think pawn is better because after you take bishop, I mean, you change and you have this d4 square. Yeah, maybe black are more active. Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, now rook A, d8, rook d4, yes. I thought this was... I wasn't worse here, so... Yeah, yeah. So I'll take with pawn, queen B6, bishop C2, rook A to d8. Yeah, and here when I play bishop C2, I was thinking of rook A, d8, and my move was rook d1. I was thinking of rook d1. I see. Because I thought that if I would change one rooks, then I have chances to better endgame, just. And my pawn on E5 will not be that weak, I guess. But here I was thinking of rook d1 takes. Like I should take with rook, yeah, and then queen C6. So now black wants to take on E5 because on G2, yeah, it's just a mage, so I was thinking of rook d5, but I thought he would just play queen B6. It's just a draw. So I was like, okay, no. I mean, I wanted to try, so I played queen f2. So you thought that you were somehow playing for a cast to win? Yes. But so was I. Because after rook d1... Yes, but he didn't... I wanted to play rook d4. Yeah, he wanted to play rook d4. Oh, that would have been really interesting. Yeah, I was really hoping you'd play rook d1. Yeah, of course, I mean, I didn't check rook d4. I think it's not enough of a conversation. I don't know. So after bishop takes, yeah? Yeah, c takes. Takes, and yeah, I think maybe c5 immediately. Queen takes. Queen g4. No, I... No, no, no, yeah. Yeah. So maybe queen f2? Yeah, so I have a choice here because I can play c5 or... Yeah, maybe c5 as well. So you're basically saying that you want to play against this bishop on c2, right? Yeah, I mean, it's an exchange and a pawn, and I have two bishops, and I have the dark squares. I can't be worse here. No chance, I can't. I don't know. All right, so let's leave it to that. I think I'll try to play rook d1 and then bishop d1. But your b3 pawn always hangs. Okay, I mean, if you get rook d1, you're a move. Yeah, like rook takes e5, for example. Oh, you won't even take rook, but I mean, I'll just take rook takes. Yeah, but... And then something like rook e1. Queen d6. Well, it would have been all, I'm sure, really interesting, and we would love to see that one. Also on the board, but you decided to play queen f2 instead of rook d1, not allowing this rook d4. Luckily or not, who knows. And after queen f2, all right, rook e7 followed. So you looked at rook d4 here. It says in the variations on the thing. No, no, we didn't. We didn't actually have the position in this moment on the screen. Oh, right, oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, so rook e2, rook e8, rook e1. Yeah, I was really surprised when he played bishop e4. I don't know, I didn't check this move. I mean, here. Well, I didn't have much time at all. But yeah, I played it and then I was like, this is a really bad move. Oh, it's not that bad, I mean, it's fine. No, I think it's just equal. No, I think it's just everything. Yeah, it just seems a bit like. But okay, you thought that you were better, right? Yeah, I thought after bishop e4, I should be winning her queen side pawns. But then I realized she's actually just taking all mine too, so. Yeah, but here I think I missed after bishop a5. You could play bishop e5. And after queen c5, you have this move, bishop d4. And I was like, oh my god. Wait, what? Oh my god. Yeah, and then queen b1 is coming. I missed this, I thought I don't. And it's just a mate, I mean, yes, it's always just a mate. Sorry guys, I'm not following this one. I don't know. What happens after queen takes d4? Rook takes e4, rook takes e4, and then queen b1. Oh, queen b1. Yes. I miss queen b1. That's a nice double attack. Yeah, you saved Rook e5, I was like, okay. Now again, I mean, it's not like I must play bishop, I mean queen c5, right? I thought that maybe I'll just go queen h1, but still I have, I think you have this move. But bishop d4 is strong now. Yeah, I'll take on e7. You take c7? You take, then I go queen, no. You take on e7. Oh, sorry. And then queen f1, maybe it's still equal. Because you take, take, and then, or maybe rook f7, no, rook f7, I'll just go queen e2. But you can take on a4. Queen d3? But like, you can take. No, I cannot. That would be nice if the bishop from a5 wouldn't be finding the rook, right? Yeah, I don't know. All right. Oh, because yeah, after bishop b5, yeah, because originally I thought bishop b5 was really strong. But here maybe you can take just rook e1, and then take on a4, or c4, and then take on a4, and you're kind of hung up. Yeah, I don't really know how much that is, though. Queen e1, I guess, no? Well, bishop e1, so we should. Oh, just bishop e1, yeah. But okay, you just take on a4. You're still like, maybe not enough, but okay, I still kind of play. Yeah. But instead of bishop takes a5. In the beginning, here. Yeah. So go back on with. There was queen d2 move. You have queen d2, yeah. But queen d2, you can play c6. I didn't like c6. Yeah, I was gonna play c6, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was the same idea. Because here, I mean, if I take on a5, you take bishop e5, and I wasn't sure, because I didn't like, I mean, your bishop is strong after bishop d4 just coming. And now, yeah, you don't have any. Yeah. So I feel like, okay, just let's try queen c5. Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, maybe bishop e5 was just very strong after queen c5. All right. So you feel like it was a better try for Ravi to play for an advantage, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because after rook e5, it's just, everything is just changing. All right, so here, yeah, you trade it and agreed to a draw. So a very interesting game. How did you feel before today's game? Did you think you are going to try for a win? And the question goes for both of you, of course, were you ambitious? Did you want a solid game? What was your thought? No, actually, I prepared very good for the French. You know, I was waiting for French and when he played e5, I was like, come on, I mean, I was checking like for two hours and I had like really strong lines there. Okay, he played e5, yeah, kind of sad. All right, what about you? Yeah, I mean, I was just going to play and see. Because you had quite a big advantage yesterday, which you let slip and did it somehow impact the way you were playing today? No, it would have been stupid to like be careless and reckless and I just, I mean, I kept telling myself like, because yeah, yesterday it should have been easy. And I just told myself like, okay, it's another day, you're playing black against a strong player, just relax. If I got chances, I would go for it, but I wasn't going to do anything crazy. Also, it's only round five, there's still five more rounds left. All right, so looking at the situation in the match, what are your thoughts on it? Again, question for both of you, Jean-Saya. You mean like today's day? Oh, no, all together, all together, also if you have some thoughts, sure. Well, yeah, okay, first two days was very good for the women's team and then boys, they kind of, they struck back, but okay, I mean, we're still fighting and I think the most important matches are just coming. So yeah. What's happening in the match right now? Well, actually, I believe we had a few results and the ladies are up one point, you know, one against Julian and I believe Jovanka had also a very good position against Hussein, but we are gonna get back to it in a bit. Just wanted to ask you the last question before letting you go. If you could use one word to describe your today's opponent, Ravi, what would it be? Oh my God. I don't know, that was kind of surprising. You have to think hard because it's coming to you as well. That's probably the worst question you could have asked. So you're avoiding an answer? I don't know what to describe. Yeah, me either. I mean, this is really tough question. All right, guys, all right. It's easier to play the game, you know. All right, so I will leave then, you maybe want to play another game then instead of using words to describe and we will be back after a very short break. Be right back.