 have the good Terminus font set up for the console, which I'm pretty sure most Linux systems now do actually have it set up. It's one of my ISO, yeah. Yeah, so as long as you've got that, it looks, I'm not kidding. Yes, it looks like hackery and like, you know, it's not like gorge. I'm talking about how it looks. I'm talking, it's, well, it works with Wayland. That's a, that's a weird thing. There's LightDM and there's LIE and there's GDM. All three, you install them on KDE, they work better than SDDM. SDDM has always been a piece of crap. My problem is not SDDM. Here's the issue. My problem is not SDDM. When I log in, the screen's flicker because it's the multiple screen bug. It's not affecting only multiple screen users. It's affecting single screen users, but it's the multi-screen bug where Plasma Shell crashes. It's crashing, reloading, crashing, reloading. So it's a Plasma bug, but you're in SDDM. I cannot call it that. It's just, I'm just describing what happened. Logs in, it shows you the desktop. It flashes, Plasma Shell crashes, reloads, crashes, reloads, crashes, reloads, and then crashes and never reloads again. All right, everybody, we're live. Welcome to the stream and the rants. If we could get some yeas or nays on the audio, I'd really be appreciative because I can't actually play the video because I don't have the codex installed yet. So, screwed. No five steps, no five steps. Hopefully it actually is working just fine. So if we can get some yeas or nays in the audio. So if I even know we're live, because it says we're live. I mean, it looks good on my end. The stream seems to be coming through. Okay. I forgot. Well, because for whatever reason, YouTube has been playing fine without the codex, but I get to a live stream and it says your browser can't play this video. I go, okay, oh crap, I forgot to install the codex. All right. Now, this is a completely off topic question, but like I can't see you in Discord. So because the stream's up now, I can finally see what you look like, Matt. And I gotta be honest, today, I had a college football coach and he looks just like you. Like, exactly like you. Have you ever thought of being a teacher ever? For about five minutes. I took a class in college. Let me ask you something. You were like, oh, it sounds good that you found out the salary. And you're like, nah. No, I found out that I'm really, really bad at talking in front of people. Like I get, so I took this one. So I majored in history in university and my final year is when you kind of have to decide what path you're going to take in the history. Like whether or not you're gonna start to be a historian or an archeologist or whatever, or if you're going to be a professor or a teacher or whatever, because you can't teach crap without some kind of education degree to go along with it. So you kind of have to decide and that always entails further education. So I took the beginning education course and somewhere towards the end of the class, you had to stand up and give a really, you had to teach something, right? And I found out that I'm really, really bad at standing in front of people and talking about literally anything. I get really, really embarrassed and I can't look at anybody in the eyes and I look at the ceiling the entire time I'm talking. It got better towards the end. So I probably could have gotten better with practice but it just wasn't for me. You do know that on YouTube, you're talking to people, right? Yeah, it's not the same though, because all I see is that it just feels different, right? I can't see any of these deuces in the chat, you know? Yeah, like when you're standing right in front of like a whole like 20, even just like, even just 10 people like around, like just standing around you and you've got to talk to all of them. Like it's much more awkward, especially if you're not like doing a bit. Like, I mean, do it like Braveheart or something. Like that would be easy to do in front of everybody because you could just be crazy, but like when you actually have to be serious, it's so much more awkward. That was a theater actor, so hang out in the field. I just, I wasn't good at it. That's just really all I could say is that I wasn't good at it. So after I realized I wasn't good at it, I decided I was going to just be a researcher, right? And write papers and books and stuff like that, which is, you know, another track you can take. And I went on for another two years working towards a master's degree and then I ran out of money. So yeah, so the moral of the story, kids, if you decide to major in history, just prepare to be poor the rest of your life because you're never, ever getting a job, ever. Of course, then I put myself wrong as I actually do work now using my degree, editing papers that are written on history. So I proved myself wrong, got a job, but it's not well-paying jobs. So don't expect to get rich, also. If you, no, no, no, no, no, you're wrong, Matt. If you really know your, if you're really into history, you would use the knowledge and history to make a lot of money. Well, I mean, like them. I know way more historians than you, Steve. I guarantee you none of them are Bill Gates. Okay. Now, do some of them make okay money? Sure, like if you teach at a major university, you can make 120K a year if you, if you, you know, that's not, that's along with writing a book and getting, you know, royalties and stuff like that, but you're never going to make millions of dollars a year. Oh, of course not, of course not. You do that. You just don't make crap. Well, I mean, that's why they write books and that's why they, you guys wonder why textbooks are so expensive is because that's how professors make their money. You know, that's the reason why you, especially when you're talking about like engineering professors because they don't make anything close to what an actual engineer makes. So they have to make it up when it comes, that's the reason why an engineering book costs, you know, three or $400. You know, that's how, that's how they make their money. Also, you should start a history YouTube channel. I should, I have plans of starting a history YouTube channel. I just never actually get around to it. Anyway, this has probably been our most informative episode ever. Yeah, the free show, we didn't talk about anything we normally talk about. We didn't completely derail or go wild. It was just all. This time I didn't cause derailment. It usually is. Neither did I. We've all been guilty of tangent. So you can't take all the blame, Steve. So, all right, let's go ahead and get started. You guys have your recording apparatus up and ready to go? Yes, sir. My large recording apparatus is ready. I need to turn my watch on Do Not Disturb because it keeps beeping at me and telling me I have emails. I think my watch doesn't have a speaker. You should address those emails, man. Well, see, the problem is I've spent the last two or three days working on my Linux setup and not doing the work that I was supposed to be doing. So I'm really, really freaking behind. Anyways, let's go ahead and get started. I'm going to hit record in Audacity. I'm going to hit record in OBS. And you guys can hit record as well. And then, Steve, you can do the claps, if you like. All right, ladies. Sorry, gents. Three, two, one. What the? That wasn't even anywhere close to being close. How about out to US Delay? Tyler, you were way behind. That's OK. All right, I was told, see, we really, we figured out a way. I figured out we not to have to clap, but then I said to people in my Discord that we're going to stop doing the claps. Like, no, that's the most entertaining part of the podcast. All right, anyways, so that's before we do get started, I just do want to make a small apology to everybody who's watching the video. Yes, there is background noise when I'm talking. And I know it's probably more annoying than there being just background noise completely, totally, all the time. The noise gate removes it when I'm not talking. But when I'm talking, the background noise shows up. I have an air conditioner on. I'm not turning it off. Fuck y'all. It's 9,000 degrees outside. I had melt into a big pile of fat goo. So I'm not turning it off. So it's the summertime. You're just going to have to get used to it. Anyways, that is just going to have to be the way it is. So I apologize for the audio issues. The good news is if you're watching or listening to the audio version, Audacity removes that shit real good. Unfortunately, OBS does not. So there we go. Anyways, let's go ahead and get started on me, then Steve, then Tyler, just to fuck with his brain. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Hey, everybody, welcome to the next cast. I'm your host, Matt. I'm Steve. And I'm Tyler. Hey, we got it right that time. It's good. Welcome to the Linux Cast, everybody. We have some wonderful things planned for this episode. As usual, we talk about Linux-y things. All things Linux. It's going to be wonderful. We have so much fun. And we definitely do not go on tangents ever. Never. Never go on tangents. Never happened. And anybody who says it's happened is obviously lying to you. Fake news. Anyways, we record this live every Saturday around 3 o'clock p.m. at Eastern Time. We're about a half an hour late today because of reasons. And those reasons were Matt didn't want to get things ready to go on time. Also, I was waiting for Josh to message me back to confirm that he's not here. He's not here, obviously. But that's OK. It's because I was going to steal his news links because for whatever reason, he's not here, but he did put news links in. So I was confused. But whatever. It doesn't really matter. We'll talk about his news links. Anyways, we'll probably just not talk about my news links, or at least both of them. I don't know how we'll do it. We're going to wing it, as we usually do. Anyways, so hello, gents. How are you doing? Let's go ahead and talk about what we've done this week in open source. Steve, you go first. I thank you, sir. But have I been up to? Well, I have been studying once on how to write bash scripts without duplicating and triplicating and quadruplicating command. And I was working. I released the new ISOs for the spins. For the blue, I was supposed to release them in August. But I was like, so many things have changed. Small things changed. I cannot wait till August. So basically, the XFCE and GNOME edition now use Albert, which is amazing. It's the direct competitor to K-Runner, which KDE has. So I decided to include it in both GNOME and XFCE. So they have something useful. And what else did I do? Oh, yeah. I made a video explaining to the people what the ideology of 0.1x is and setting the points straight. If you want to watch it, you can jump onto my channel. And I'm working on starting next year. I need to start early because I'm not used to it. I'm going to be making more videos starting next year. And it's going to be very mat-like videos. So sorry, I don't have anything. I cannot come up with anything better than that. Whenever I see something that I'm interested in, I'm going to make a video about it. Emulation is the best form of flattery. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. Humble, sir. And that's it. And I was testing Ambaral and other things. And I was playing Diablo. Of course, everyone's playing Diablo right now. On the Steam Deck. I'll say all the cool kids are. I'm not either. So apparently I'm not cool. On the Steam Deck. And it plays great on the Steam Deck. They have released so many updates since initial launch, maybe like three or four updates since. And it's way better on the Steam Deck now. I'm getting a 40 stable FPS, not a single FPS below 40. I'm talking about medium setting. Before, I was getting very fluctuating kind of frame rate at low setting. Now at medium, I'm getting stable 40. But I'm getting also exactly 40 minutes of gameplay on the Steam Deck. That is low. That is low. I was. You want higher frame rate, you better give up your battery life. Yeah. I continue to play Skyrim on the Steam Deck. It's surprising. One last thing, yeah. And one last thing, a friend of mine who knows a couple of indie game developers. That's straight from the source. Income quadrupled since the Steam Deck came out. Indie games in general, most of them, a lot of them, have quadrupled their income because of the Steam Deck. That does make sense. That's awesome here. Because indie games flourish on the Steam Deck. You get 60 FPS easy. Josh, an hour and a half to two hours of gameplay. Josh doesn't show up to the podcast and then trolls us in the comments. I'm just. Yeah, I saw that. That's Josh. There's no podcast anywhere without Josh. All right. I wish I was using my Steam Deck. We're about to say for me to go on and say what I've been doing in my week. Yeah, but go ahead. OK, well, perfect. Because so one thing I have not been using my Steam Deck lately because just before this past week, I tried to install Gen 2 on it. And it does work, but it's. Yeah, I need to I needed to set my desktop up so I could do. Like DCC and help out the steam deck, Steam Deck's little CPU with some compiling. I mean, it's a good CPU, but compared to my desktop, it takes a long time to compile shit. So but there is a reason I'm doing it. I've set up if you'll make the screen big, I'll show off. I mean, I know it'll be really low resolution, so people can't really see much. But I tried out a whole bunch of Linux distros and for a short time, just because I had to do some work, I went back to Windows because I tried out a lot of different Linux distros. I did not try out zero Linux, which I probably should have, but I did have a flash drive with like Endeavor OS that like I had laying around for forever. So I use that. But I've been checking or I've been setting up all of my stuff for like screen sharing and such. So I've got like OBS working with V4L to loop back. And I've been setting up my Hyperland config. So I've got a really nice like just configuration with everything. Everything is working beautifully on Wayland. It's just overall a very, very nice system. So I do very much enjoy Gintu and that's what I've been on for pretty much them past week. But one of the things that I have been doing, this might upset some people, but I'm going to move my webcam to show off my like little mini desktop. I've been working on this monstrosity of a thing down here. And it's tiny. Not a monstrosity of a desktop. No, no, no, I mean, it's not like big, but if you see all the wires in there, that's all like I've I've had to like Jerry rig and like unpin fan headers. And I had to get like an extender. So I could because I've only got two fan slots. So it's a whole bunch of work on the story time, guys. That is not even close enough to the to the most giant computer he's ever had. At one point during the podcast, he had one in a cardboard box. I shit you not. It was in a cardboard box. You and he was using it. It also probably set his house on fire. I'm just assuming I totally forgot about that. And you are right. Also, at one point, his computer had a I don't remember the reason why I think you had a fan on it that was so big that you couldn't fit the side frame on it. So it would just make this horrendous noise in the background because there was no sound happening. So, you know, you know, someone's known you for a while when you start having stories about them and their computer set up. Yeah, it was good. That's what I've been up to. All right. So me, I have had some more along the lines. I upset the Linux gods, mostly by being an idiot. So Qtile is notorious for failing to work when Python is updated. It's notorious for being that way when there's an update. It breaks and it happens a lot. And it's just the way it always has been. But the thing is, is that had been working so well for me that I forgot that. So when it did eventually fail, I blamed the distribution and not the window manager, which is what I should have done. So I hopped from open Suza tumbleweed went to Fedora. Fedora was having problems with my USB devices. They're completely failing. I don't know what the hell was going on there. And I just was not interested in solving the problem. So I hopped back to open Suza tumbleweed thinking that I was going to have the exact same experience that I had previously because it was really, really good. Oops, I did change the scene. Sorry about that, Arius. Who said I was professional? You guys just stare at Tyler's lovely face for the rest of the podcast. It's fine. Anyways, the Fedora thing didn't work. I went back to tumbleweed, thought I was going to have the same experience. I did not have the same experience. I was having some problem with X authority, something the other. I spent two days trying to fix that with people in the open Suza forums failed. Ended up just hopping last night to open Suza leap. That's where I'm at right now. And yeah, so far it seems to be doing perfectly fine. I have had some interesting discord issues just now. And Pycom is not working as well as it should because it's an old version of Pycom. So what can I say? Also, it's using an old version of I3 before the merge. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing. Wait, hold on. How do you have an old package of Pycom? Like, are you building straight from source and like you just kept it around? Leap is a static distribution. It uses it similar to Debian, so it has older packages. I'm using it's an older version of Firefox as well. So yeah, not the ESR version, right? I don't actually know if this is ESR, to be honest with you. I'm going to I will look right now. Yes, the ESR version. Yep. That explains more than I thought about because it did. Pywall Fox isn't working. That's the reason why because the ESR version is actually really freaking old. Wow. Yeah. So I'm on leap right now. Whether or not I stick with leap, I don't know because I have I'm going to look into seeing how I can go about getting some fresher packages on some of some things because I prefer to have some fresher packages. It's like on Debian. There's an easy way to get fresher packages, right? You can go to backboards or you can install, you know, you can go to testing or whatever. I'm I don't know anything about leap. So I don't know if there is a way to get newer packages on leap. So I'll have to investigate that. If not, we'll see if I stick around here. As of right now, I'm happy. I want to find a distribution where I can just be happy and and stick around because I'm ready to settle down with with a distro. Tyler, it might be gen two. So be prepared to well happen a call and help me out. No, no, no. I'll definitely help you out to settle down. You said you want to settle down on Gen Two. No one settled down on Gen Two. I'm well, I've got to be honest, brother. I've said it plenty of times. I'll see you in a week. You will see. I was I was running Gen Two for a long time before this I don't. I don't like to be Stephen. I don't agree on many things, but I will agree with them on this. Let's see in a week. Just so you guys know how like serious I am about not moving. Normally I don't ever set up like virtual environments because I switch so often. So there's like if I want to make a video on something new, doesn't really matter, which granted, that hasn't been a problem recently because I haven't posted in God knows how long. But anyway, like I, I actually have vert manager set up like I do have a couple distros set up like I'm really not. This is actually extremely polished, very stable. Matt did the same thing and and he away because he got bored. Well, the really the only reason that I can't go like I've kind of locked myself into gen two now. Portage has a lot of packages like an insane amount of packages available. And most of the times, if you can't find the package there, they have like overlays which are essentially, I mean, they might as well be the AUR of gen two. And they're super simple to use, like ridiculously simple to use. And almost all of them are, I just trust the packages on gen two more because you can actually read eBuilds very simple and they just go from. You know what? I will agree with you on this one. Because the other day I was so bored, I looked at the numbers on the AUR. You have 106,000 members or maintainers on the AUR. You know how many of them are trusted? You just 63 out of 109,000. I overestimated. 63 of them are trusted. All right. That made me rethink the AUR all over again. If only 63 are trusted, what am I doing on the AUR? Why am I building packages from the AUR? Just something that you said, Steve, you're right. I did get bored, but I didn't get bored with the distribution. I was just bored in general. I had nothing to do at the point and I decided that it was going to be fun. I didn't say you were bored with the distribution. I know. I was just elaborating, not correcting. But anyway, I'm ready to settle down. Gen two does feel appealing to me right now, but I don't know if I stick on it. Let's say one thing. I really get bored because of how good my system, how stable my system is on KDE X11. Nobody likes bragging. I'm not bragging. I'm just getting bored, but instead of ganking the operating system of my main system, I just open a VM, install a new thing in a VM, and I play around in a VM without messing with my main system. I do that too, but I still like to hop over once in a while. Anyways, let's go ahead and jump. I'm using Debian. I'm rediscovering Debian now. I loved it so much. In my video, I tell the users, if there's a distro for beginner users, it's Debian with GNOME. I do back that decision, especially with the new bookworm update. You lost me with the GNOME part. Anyway, guys, let's move on to the news. As usual, we have all selected two news items for you this week. It's going to be wonderful. We also have Josh's news items, which are the news items that we're actually going to be talking about, because who puts news items in and then doesn't show up to put a window in? Of all the reasons, that's not what I expected. But that's okay. I'm stealing Josh's links. We'll just bypass one of mine, and we'll kind of integrate the other one into his. Because it's interesting. We're going to actually lead off with the big news. Normally, I saved the big one till last, but this week we're going to talk about Red Hat first, because I know that's what a lot of people are here to talk about. A few years ago, Red Hat was purchased for like what, $3 billion or some crazy number like that? Maybe more, I don't know, by IBM. Big Blue. IBM is a central company that used to rule the world and has had many financial issues over the course of the last 20 years or so, because Microsoft and Apple or whatever kind of took over the world, and Qualcomm and all the others. Now, it doesn't mean that IBM hasn't been profitable. They have definitely been profitable, but they have not been like the kings of the world. And they thought that buying Red Hat would solve their problems, and it did not, so that now they're deciding to ruin everything that Red Hat stood for in the world. So a few, a couple years ago, they changed the way CentOS works. It used to be in a different position. It used to be a more like rolling release type somewhere along the lines of Fedora, but in a different position of Fedora. Now it's in between Fedora and RHEL. And a lot of people didn't like that. And they also put a whole bunch more stuff behind the paywall of Red Hat into Prize Linux. That was a couple years ago. Now they've taken the source code of RHEL, which used to be published publicly, and put that too behind the paywall. So if you wanted the source code of RHEL, you'd have to go to all the sources of RHEL. You'd have to go and pay Red Hat in order to do that. Or you'd be able to use one of the free developer accounts, which they still have. Now whether or not they'll always have the free developer accounts, who knows because obviously Red Hat can no longer be trusted to deal in good faith with the community. I do need to go ahead and stop you because a lot of people don't understand this change because it is a little complex. But this is nothing like really to be wild and out about because one, it's not behind a paywall unless you're a company, which if you know anything about RHEL, it is a rock solid stable and extremely development intensive project. So for companies that are going to be using it, them requiring them to pay them to fund how much development is done on RHEL I think is completely fair and totally ethical. Also for personal use, most people don't know this, but if you want to go get a personal use license from RHEL, it's free. It doesn't cost anything. You can go do it. It's totally fine. I have one. It's very simple to go do. And all they've done now is the source code for RHEL. You have to have an account to get to it, which is not wild because they probably don't want like anyone trying to contribute to the project who's not actually actively doing stuff with RHEL on a RHEL account. It's a way to weed out the bad apples. Well, OK, so first of all, hold on a second. So there's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of different perceptions on what's actually going on. OK, so one of the big reasons why people are so up in arms about this is because of some of the terms that you have to agree to in order to get a RHEL account. One of those terms, at least I've seen this in a couple of places, whether or not it's true or not, is that you cannot share that code outside of your RHEL account because it's a violation of that terms of service, which of course is a violation of the GPL because once you have the code, you can share. It was on hack a day, I think, was the site I was on. Somebody asked and said, basically, if you were to share the source code, you would lose your account and that's the... You're not going to... It's not legal trouble you'd get in. It's just you'd no longer be able to get updates for that code. This is also a misconception because you're not allowed to share it with anyone else who is not also a Red Hat member. Right. You're allowed, like, if someone else has another personal account and you modify it, you can send it to them. Red Hat is licensed under the GPL, which says that once you have the code, you can share it and modify it with anyone without any restrictions. That's what the GPL stands for. But from what the articles I've read said, basically say that the GPL is so flexible that it wouldn't really matter anyways, but the idea... Honestly, guys, the whole situation of this being done isn't the whole point. The point is that it sets a precedent for taking things and tightening the control. It's not nearly as open as it was. And the biggest and scariest part about it is that the Red Hat supports so many of the technology, underlying technologies of Linux. You know, XOR, Wayland, Pulse Audio, Pipe Wire. That's not going nowhere. Let me finish, Steve, please. It sets a precedent for the future of that support, okay? Okay, so it comes across as anti-open source. That's the reason why people are coming and saying, like, DT's video today of what is called a proprietary garbage, right? Obviously, an inflammatory headline and not true. We know it's not going closed source despite what other YouTubers are saying. It's not closed source, still open source, but it's not as open as it was, okay? We can agree on that, right? It's not as open as it was. And the thing is, is that over the course of the last three or four months, Red Hat has made a series of decisions that come across as very anti-open source. Now, that's not moving full closed source, but they've fired a lot of... Or laid off, I guess is what you say. They've laid off several of the community members who contributed significantly to Fedora. They've made choices about REL and the way the source code is put out there. And they've changed several other things that are just, you know, not what you'd think about for a company that completely and openly supports open source software. And the reason why I say it sets a bad precedent is because they do support so many other projects out there, like those ones that I named, like Fedora. And if this is the stance that they're taking with REL, what are the chances are that they're going to start taking those stances and other things too. Now, I will say that they don't have as much control over those software projects as they do with REL, because REL is their project, whereas they support those other projects. But if they decide to stop supporting those other projects, it's going to be, you know, not as good. Plus, a lot of Red Hat employees work on those projects, you know, so I don't know. Well, the big problem is like, Red Hat had to do this financially, because what a lot of people don't take into account is when the source code for REL, which for a company requires you to actually pay money for it, if you can just go and get the source code without them being able to verify that you have an account with them, then people who are working at companies, and for anybody who wants to say that this doesn't happen, you're completely ignorant or lying to yourself. There is a lot of companies out there that go and get REL without an account and use it. That happens all the time. When there are obviously other projects that allow you to do the same thing, so it's really not that big of a deal. Hold on a second. Red Hat has never ever made a single dime on REL. They don't make money on the distribution. It's always been free. They make money on support. That's where they make their money. If you're using REL in a company, you're supposed to have a company account. You're supposed to. If you make an account, that's not going to change their bottom line at all. We're having a passion agreement on parts of this, and other parts were not. The distro itself has never been... It's just like saying Ubuntu makes money off from Ubuntu. They do not. They make money off from support. Red Hat makes like $4 billion a year, some crazy number. I don't even know. They make a lot of money every year, whatever that number is. Every single dime of that comes from things that are not the actual distribution. Now, you could argue that having more full control over who uses the distribution would possibly lead to more people paying for the services. That's an argument that can be made. I don't personally think that that's the way it's going to work because people who were not going to pay for REL in the first place aren't going to all of a sudden say, oh, shit, the source code is now behind an account wall. I'm going to go do that now. They're just going to go find something different. Whatever Alma or Rocky end up doing, they'll just use that. All this does is push people who are on the fence already because of Red Hat's previous actions, pushes them further into the arms of the competitors of Rocky and Alma. The question then becomes, of course, what does Alma actually do? Because they were using the source code of REL. Those were basically one-to-one copy, bug-to-bug copies of REL. It's going to be interesting to see where they come. Apparently, they have a plan, but we'll see what that ends up being. As far as I know, they could just... Well, no. I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea, but I don't think it's just wild of an ordeal. You can still go for free and get it. Like DT said in his video, it doesn't affect desktop Linux users as much as it affects companies. Of course, this is about companies, but Red Hat plays such an important role when it comes to supporting projects that are underlying technologies for desktop Linux that it looks bad. Well, I don't think it really does, because to be honest, mainly what they're doing is... Did I lose both of you or are you guys just both still there? I think I lost both of them. That's awesome. Okay. Awesome. Discord crashed. All right. I don't know if I'm still streaming or not, but I'm having some technical difficulties, which is good. All right, let's see. Let's see if I can start Discord back up. Yes, Discord crashed. It's awesome. It's fantastic. Company. I mean... And they were still talking. They didn't even know I was gone. So I'm going to interrupt you guys, because apparently Matt's having issues with stream, but you guys have made me rage enough that I just got my curtains put up on the window, so I'm here to join you now. You can't join me the way through. I'm sorry. That's just rules. Because you're all wrong. Okay. So how are we wrong? Okay, Edge and Makedas. All right, hold on a second. Okay. So Red Hat is free, but not for a business purpose. It is non-free for production use. That's what I've been talking about. It's free for personally. There's a difference between business and production. You only said business. Hold on. The way that it works... Hold on. In what world are you running a business where you're not also in production? If you're a developer. Of RHEL? If you're developing something for RHEL, yeah. Well, Josh, now that you're here, explain to us exactly what we said wrong then, please. Okay. So, the way that Red Hat works, and this is actually in their purchasing agreements, as well as the licensing behind the developer's subscription, the developer's subscription literally has a term where it's just like, if they find that you're using it for production use, you have to pay for RHEL. Because what they're doing is that they are actively controlling the repositories that you're pulling upstream from, which by the way, you can just point to somewhere else. By the way, guys, we can just completely stop recording in Audacity now, seeing as how Josh wasn't here at the beginning to actually start recording. I didn't even think about that. That's so true. Anyway, guys, you see that ladder right there? That ladder's covered in sawdust, because I've been cutting my wallet part all day. It's just so I can get this damn window installed. I literally just got my curtains up as you guys started talking about Red Hat. So being in production... Short-circuited because we were wrong. Short-circuited. So, does being in production mean that anyone who develops a package for RHEL and actually ships that package must pay for Red Hat? No, because they're developing for Red Hat. As long as they're developing packages, they don't have to pay for Red Hat. As long as they're developing specifically for Red Hat. So, essentially being in production means business? Basically, however, if you're a business, now, there's more. However, not all businesses build packages for Red Hat. They just use Red Hat as, you know, like a file server or a web server or an email server. Those are the ones that have to pay for production. Because they are putting that server into production. Same thing... They pay for support, right? Not the actual code. You have to pay for it. Yeah, they're paying for support, which that support also includes your package repositories. And the updates that come down. Right. It was never the actual source code of the distro that they were paying for. It was never the actual source code that they were paying for. The thing now is that it's not the actual source code. Yes. Hold on. Before we get to this point in the argument, this is not a violation of the GPL because the GPL just says that, hey, this code needs to be redistributable. That said, if you want to have access to the Red Hat source code, it's on CentOS Stream. Because CentOS Stream, believe it or not, is actually binary compatible with production rel. As long as you're using what is available for the version of Red Hat that you're using. So in this case, being Red Hat 9, your packages for CentOS Stream 9 are binary compatible with Red Hat. The only difference to... Look, the only thing that they have stopped is people being able to go and without a Red Hat account pull down the source code, build it and use it in production without ever signing up for an account ever. So that's all that's been done and I don't think it's insane for them to do that because, let's be honest, everyone, like, not everyone but there was definitely a lot of businesses out there that were doing that who could definitely afford to pay for. I know some businesses that only pay for a single machine on Red Hat that use that one machine to download all the packages for Red Hat and then serves as the binary package hose for all the other machines. Yes, we've all heard of businesses that people get away with using REL and Red Hat without paying for it. Chasslinux and Chat. Yes, you can pay for the source code and they are not restricting you from getting access to that source code because all you have to do is just fill out a license agreement, is just, you know, make a developer account and then you have access to the source code. You just can't use it in a business without paying for it. I think that's totally fair. Yeah, you just can't use it for production purpose. That said, this is basically the exact same situation we ran ourselves into back when, you know, they end of life CentOS because the big issue with CentOS is that people were downloading CentOS, using CentOS and then well actually the biggest issue with CentOS is that they weren't making money. There was no community engagement with CentOS because CentOS was downstream from Red Hat and every time that, you know, they wanted to submit a bug report, they would submit the bug report to Red Hat, not CentOS. So it led down to a rabble hole towards the end of CentOS's life, there was literally only three people working on CentOS. You had two people working on production, you had one person working on the previous three versions of CentOS that were still in support. So I think that one guy is still working on supporting CentOS 7. I think the core of like this whole like news problem is the fact that Red Hat did a poor job of explaining exactly how this was going down and two, also everybody doesn't know that you can go and get RHEL for free for development and like personal use, that's completely free. I just don't think everyone understands that, like that's totally fine. The only place where you're going to need to pay for it and like a paywall exists is if you're a company and using it for production in your company. And I think that's totally fair. Especially if you know anything about RHEL it is not a project with a handful of people behind it. It's got a lot of money behind it, there's a lot of focus on it, it's got to be stable, it's got to be enterprise worthy. If you're trying to get your camera to work in Discord you have to exit the camera from OBS Studio on all scenes. I'm not worried about it right now. Yeah, don't do that. I decided to let you know. The only thing that will make that because we are living in the dimension or realm of Linux. It's going to be taken out of context. People are going to be hyperbolic. Any time Red Hat does something like this because this is not the first time that we've done with this debate involving Red Hat. It's not the second time, it's not the third time, it's not the fourth time. This is the fifth time in as many years where there's been something like this happening with Red Hat. People are going to be saying we're going to take everything out of context. That right there proves my point. It's that they continue to do stuff like this and it just keeps going and going and going. You guys are completely right, they have 100% right to do this. It even makes sense for them to do this financially and as a business and all of that stuff but when it comes to true and honest support of open source software taking something behind a paywall. It's not behind a paywall, that's the whole point. That's what I've been saying. It's not behind a paywall. It's completely free, you just have to sign up. Have the prime example right here on the podcast. I put the ISOs behind the isos of the spins behind the donation wall. I kept the code open source and free. People are yelling and they're up in arms because Zero Linux is charging for free code. If they don't pay for the source code, what's the point? What's the point? Because you have to sign up for an account which has a binding legal agreement that you're not going... It's a data collective... No, it's very simple. When you sign up for a red hat account there is a binding legal agreement that they could use in a legal case if they find out that you're pulling down the source code and using it in production against that agreement. Otherwise, if... Once you have a distribution in the source code, you can do whatever you want with it. That's the GPL. That's the GPL. What we're talking about is just the repositories. Right, I understand. That is the thing that they're at. The GPL and the other agreement that you're going to sign with red hat are two totally different things. Two totally different things. I'm not a freaking moron. I know that they're two different things. I know that they're two different things. Hold on a second. What I'm saying is that it's the repositories that are behind the... I'm going to call it a paywall. I know you don't have to pay. You don't have to talk to me about that. I understand. Those are the ones that are behind the account wall. That's what is the thing. But that's not all they're doing. They're taking all of the source code behind the account wall. That's fine. They're 100% free to do that. My point was as Josh said, at the time they've done something like this that is pissed off the community. They keep doing it since the IBM merger. They keep doing it because it's not... whenever they do it the people get angry but it passes and everything is back to normal. It doesn't make sense. Because that's true doesn't mean that it's still a good thing that it happens. The whole reason... Honestly, if we're going to be honest about this whole argument and everything the only reason that anybody is upset about this is because they can no longer get around not paying for it. I've never used red hat in a day in my life and I'm still a little upset about it. I'm just... I don't get why. Nothing is going to... Nothing is going to happen to Xorg. Nothing is going to happen to Whalen. Nothing is going to happen to any of those. That's very optimistic of you. I'm the pessimist of the podcast and I think that I'm a little worried about it. I'm just saying. When you sign up for a red hat account on the developer subscription you're subject to two licensing agreements for just the account itself. You're not only signing up you're not only signing the developer subscription for individuals which is the one that allows you access to repositories but you're also signing up for the red hat enterprise agreement itself. Both of which these agreements are actually super short. One's five pages the other one's one page. Surprisingly short for an enterprise contract like this. But when it comes down to it I saw somebody talking about an NDA attached to the account agreement. The account agreement itself does not have an NDA. It's the enterprise agreement that has it. All that NDA says is a confidentiality disclaimer for those zero day vulnerabilities. Yes guys I know Discord is fucking up again. I'm hoping you still get the audio. Sorry. But again these agreements only allow red hat to pursue a legal case in the fact that you're using it against their agreement. Which before if you could just go get the source code you could build it and you could get around not ever signing up for an account then you could bypass the entire thing and they would have no ground to stand on. And there's a lot of the decisions that red hat have made lately have just been to try to improve revenue which if you know anything about like most Linux companies they don't pull in a shitload of money. Sure they can get bought for a lot of money but they normally don't pull in a lot. I mean having so many problems alright uh yeah you know this is the most technologically problems I've had in forever now it's making me sign back into Discord which is highly entertaining um yeah I don't I'm working on it give me a second guys scan your code yay let me see if I can't get back in the chat here it's wonderful okay no yep yep yep alright this is fucking dumbass guys this right here is why I'm moving back to Windows okay this is this has been my Linux experience the entire fucking week what is it time to just give up on Discord and use jitsie it's time for me to give up on openSUSA I really want to use openSUSA but I've been having so many problems with it and this is I think this is the flat pack version of Discord I'm pretty sure um so I shouldn't have a problem with it but there's something going on I'm wrong I don't know what that was going on um also who the hell knows if we're actually gonna have a recording of this at the end of the day who knows YouTube will have a VOD but YouTube will have a VOD of wherever you sent it apparently it has only been half an episode it was it's only ever going to come from OBS anyways because someone joined midway through and we don't have the it's fine you guys triggered me I'm sorry I'm salty about it but anyways let's see if we can't move on from this disaster of a new story at this point I don't even care let's move on to whatever I can't even go see what other news stories we have because in order to show this I have to show the discord window I can't move away from the discord window because if I do well whose news next or whose news do you want to go next well tell you what Steve take a story yeah take a story Steve what's your next what's your first link it's SDDM really getting an update officially from under uh it's frozen again alright who's frozen everyone is frozen let's go frozen again I'm actually pretty warm today I'm running my air conditioner full blast oh my god y'all so it's SDDM 0.20 uh finally we get an update after such a long time and this time around PE people because apparently SDDM was not a KDE project it was its own standalone project that the KDE people were using you didn't know that I didn't know that I didn't know that to be honest you know how I knew that I knew that because it doesn't start because the name of the project doesn't start with the K oh dude you're giving us a good point no it didn't rename it to KDDM no that's actually like a rule of thumb under their uh under their official project guidelines like anything that doesn't start with anything that doesn't actually lead with a K in its name is not alright I'm working on it guys we're gonna try something different here alright let's go here and we're gonna see here and then this is the worst podcast ever um log in discord yes it's fantastic this is gonna be great we'll see if this actually works I don't think it's gonna work but we're gonna find out they're getting there before it was way more buggy because it was the KDE project so it's not on them I'm not saying that they messed it up can you guys actually hear me we can hear you alright I think I've found a workaround we're using discord in the browser like it's the 1990s but something terrible is going on with everything in my life right now Tyler you've been doing this with me for well over two years we've never had technical difficulties this bad ever before right this is bad which I gotta be honest I don't wanna like crap and take the conversation away from STDM but the I gotta be honest OpenSUSA has probably been one of my worst experiences on Linux um just from the sheer install of it because if you know anything about OpenSUSA I don't know if they changed but the amount of packages that come down when you install OpenSUSA is unbelievable if you choose KDE as the desktop environment you're gonna get north of 5000 packages it's insane um I don't know if that's cause they count them differently cause like if you take an arch install of KDE and a Debian install of KDE those package counts are gonna be significantly different cause they count packages differently and bundle them differently um I don't know if that's OpenSUSA is doing or if they actually have 5000 packages that they have to install it is kind of insane um hopefully now that I'm doing this in the browser um we can actually carry on with this thing cause we're 50 minutes in I don't think we've talked about literally anything haha we went through the most important we went through the most important topic of the whole episode is anybody actually still watching this it's definitely the thing that people came for our most watched episode live and this is the thing that they come to we're normally much better than this guys um you know a secret if you look at the title of the video it says red hat in it I've decided that red hat alone is responsible for 50% of viewership cause the most popular videos on my video besides some stupid play my video I recorded 10 years ago in my basement have all been red hat videos which also doesn't make sense cause a lot like a lot of people don't use red hat personally like they don't develop for red hat like it's just just something mainly used by businesses well it's also a very prime target for anybody that wants to be a system administrator that rhcsa is actually really really important okay um Tyler your your your subject awesome so we did the sddm one let me see if I can't take control again just I will feel better if I if I if I pull the reins in just a little bit so yes Tyler tell us what your your your next link is mine is going to be um in video has come out with a new driver now this was on June 14th and I literally don't even know what today is so 24 so this is more than a week old but for those of you who don't know in video driver 535.54 .03 I love that version name yeah it's perfect it's rules right off the top yeah yeah I mean it's just it's beautiful say but they they actually have improved Wayland support it also has I don't they say like uh improves support for flat pack apps I genuinely have no idea how that is a problem for Nvidia that they need to release a driver update for um but yeah that's a thing they had to do um and also now it's got support for hybrid Nvidia AMD laptops so uh for a lot of hardware uh you're gonna be probably better off running this this driver and also if you've had issues with trying to use Wayland on Nvidia before you definitely need to update this driver and try it and see if it you know actually does help and make it work good um so that's kind of a big thing that maybe people who pay attention to Linux news have already seen but definitely something worth checking out for everybody who is sadly using Nvidia products which I know Steve you're one of them but you'll get an AMD card here before too long which speaking of um I actually do have an RX 6600 XT that I'm looking to sell so uh if you want to work something out we can we can get that done I have no idea how it would possibly get shipped to you um forget about it uh because you're gonna pay too much to get it to me I'm gonna get built so we'll end up it's gonna end up costing around two thousand dollars so um yeah uh no the the the issue with the Nvidia drivers because I maintain Nvidia drivers on my repositories the TKG ones because that's what works for me better than the vanilla one uh I did try the vanilla ones there's no big difference in reality but for some people the vanilla ones get them stuck on Nouveau it doesn't switch on hybrid I know that's been a problem for a long time yeah so I'm like uh there's no big difference I don't know if it fixed Wayland because I can't get my to get into Wayland wait wait hold on what package numbers of I don't even know if this is available on Arch because I know Arch may not have already packaged the newest 535 version they did they did okay okay because I rely on uh a package the libc the rxl or whatever it's called yeah one of those great lib packages got a lot of other packages yeah for for for Nvidia it's 535 so I waited for for the Arch for Arch to have the latest drivers before I pushed the KG ones and I've been testing them before still okay they keep talking about Wayland is working but I don't know what the issue is if it's plasma if it's SDDM if it's Nvidia I don't know what it is but I cannot use Wayland for the life of me I cannot say I cannot agree or disagree with anything I can not blame any any one thing because I can't get to it and the reason I know it's plasma shell crashing is because I I went to the TTY and I went to Wayland through from the TTY they kept saying plasma shell session and started ended and dumped and whatever core dumped and whatever so something is causing the plasma shell to break but those Nvidia drivers work and I have news also about since those came out you know that the Nvidia open open drivers also open DKMS drivers also got updated so apparently the open DKMS work better for a lot of users than the actual regular drivers yeah touring and above of course because that's the only issue that I have with Nvidia nowadays I don't care that they're proprietary like Nvidia is going to be a bitch like they always will but here's the thing can they just make their drivers simple to operate on multiple different OSs without having a dependency tree that's a nightmare like that's what breaks it like recently with steam you saw that all the issues with steam when they released the accelerated UI half the people were having issues launching steam because they were missing the lip 32 and video you tells the multi lip this is why I'm happy that I'm on an all Intel system even though I have to use an extreme distro because all my stuff is just in the kernel that's why you were asking earlier if yeah because I'm sitting here looking at the zero links no it's not and I see Intel our drivers removed what did you do did you remove Linux I was just talking about the XF 86 video Intel for the I'm going to help Matt out here I think we spent a lot of time talking on this and we've got another five articles to go through I've cut some down by the way we're going to skip a couple I can talk about Linux Matt we will but before we do we're going to do contact information if you want to get in contact with us and let us know a crap show this has been if you guys are first of all if you are watching the video you'll know that we had technical difficulties because it was all video based and stuff if you were are watching the or listening to the audio version you're probably like what the hell is going on with these people they've never podcasted a day in their lives technical difficulties happen apparently but anyways we apologize that if you want to get in contact with us you can do so many different ways the Linux cast that org is probably the best way there you'll find previous episodes all the way back to season one as well as blog posts when I post them those will all be there as well you can find Tyler he's on YouTube whether or not he knows how to actually sign into his YouTube account anymore no one knows youtube.com slash zaneo g is where you can subscribe to him Josh has all of his contact information at tenleyj.com slash stalker Steve has YouTube channel as well youtube.com slash zero Linux with zero X not as G apparently somewhere in my universe G is zero I don't know what the hell is going on anymore instead of a Z is what I meant to say you can support me on patreon.patreon.com slash the linux cast you can contact all of us via email at email at the linuxcast.org and you can find all of this stuff all of these links that are in a much more professional and well thought out presentation on the website at the linuxcast.org slash contact there you'll find other links for Steve the links to for Discord and Mastodon and all this stuff all that stuff at the linuxcast.org slash contact so I actually had somebody send me an email the other day it was actually really fascinating we were talking about philosophy we get quite a few emails actually these days I'm really really bad at replying to them and past and even worse at passing them on to the people they're actually supposed to go to so if you sent me an email I do read them I just apparently the reply button is broken on my finger I don't know I'll get better at that anyways so you're saying you don't check your email I do actually have an email client I look at them I read them I have them on my phone and they're fantastic I just and crap at contacting people I apologize for that at least you got your emails working on your phone I can't get my emails working on my phone I just use spark it's fine also I use Gmail so it's easy enough anyways so that's the contact information let's go ahead and move on to the rest of the news I did cut out the Alma linux one so we won't talk about that I will go next so Toofa doors because we should be able to get this done pretty quickly because this is not surprising Toofa door spins have at least talking about going without xorg installed both of those are the sway versions of the door the regular one which is called the sway version the sway spin and the other one is Ciricea Ciricea something like that I don't know it's the immutable or asia whatever it's the immutable version of sway the sway spin so both of those not surprising not going to include the packages for xorg because if you're downloading those spins you're probably not going to want to use xorg it's just it's a little bit bloat so I saw some people like I go no fedora is going to completely cut out xorg that's actually in the plans but it's like miles down the road and it's not the for these two spins the only reason why xorg is still there is just because of sddm still uses xorg on fedora but they've also got greetdn repositories so why aren't they using greetdn with one of those options well they can always just switch to gdm or one of the others I don't know there's a whole bunch of things they could do I think the reason why they're so attached to sdm do you guys think this is true is that because sdm is more themable and you think that's probably exactly what the case is it's themable and it's familiar for people like gdm is going to look like gdm whether it's you know want it to or not let's go ahead tyler half the time josh says exactly what I was thinking yeah it's definitely why do we even need to be here let's just have josh say all the things see that's why like to be honest it's not that I was busy or like out of town when I missed the like last a lot of podcasts it was just josh already like he already had the same news I had he like we'd already had conversations and he was finishing my sentences so I was like I'll just take a break for a while you're welcome I should just have my own podcast already it's called distra hacking it's supposed to be every Friday I do have some good news for you tyler have 0ad installed so perfect then tonight we're going to have tonight so it's going to be late tonight but I thought you were going to help me install gen 2 I can do that too I can multitask I can play 0ad and help you install gen 2 I got you wait a second just a second here just a second here because how many how many times have I had to help you with your gen 2 installations any should really should be taking the installation advice from you you're going to be in the call with us and you're going to do most of the I need you I need you go to tendlyj.com and click on one of the support links and then you need to pay me you need to pay me for gen 2 support now you know why I asked Tyler for help on the tangent again but I do have to say that was probably one of the most most most interesting conversations we've ever had Josh about you starting to charge for your gen 2 support because you totally should and I completely supported if you want to do patreon something like that like you totally should liberapay.com slash 10 Lee J that's why I asked Tyler by the way so I could get the free version it may not be as good but it's definitely free okay when you put your gen 2 support behind a paywall you bitch what are what do you think you are red hat Jesus yes I have two red hat servers behind me he's one of them now you gotta be careful man I have six at work we're moving to rocky linux is that what your distro hacking is about I am going to be switching the servers to rocky linux that way I don't have to deal with all the red hat is bad comments who cares what actual people say alright let's go Josh why don't you take the next one okay linux cinnamon releases a beta where it looks like that they've actually tried this developing thing did you call linux mint linux cinnamon did I really? I think you did I thought you said linux mint cinnamon no he definitely said linux cinnamon but also I said linux mint I was saying it now and that can prove me wrong they should definitely call it I'm just saying no that said I checked to get repository they have done no work on muffin whatsoever muffin is the fork of mutter right yeah it is still based off of mutter 3.22 which is really freaking old right yeah mutter we're up to mutter 44.2 you can't pay attention to gnomes version numbers they flop all over the place all the damn time but yeah it's still really old but anyway wait hold on they just added xdg desktop portal support yep what? how old is this pretty old hold on let me see updated Wednesday Josh you know everything about what's going on in the linux world what's the status of cinnamon going to weyland it is not on the road map whatsoever they've actually said this multiple times every time somebody's ever asked about it in a bug tracker they go like hey is there going to be a weyland part of cinnamon they said there are no plans to move to weyland yep that's average so Steve we found our home for the next forever because they're never going to weyland let's go use this cinnamon man it's going to be great Matt are you going to reupload are you going to upload a linux apology video because if I remember correctly you had a very popular video in the past where you had some opinions about linux it's time for you to backtrack they should still use the deviant edition I will 100% forever stick with that opinion that they should use the deviant edition as their only only version I think that that's still the truth but that video you're talking about that linux I think is like linux linux meant useless or something like that it was literally titled because I happened to have an archive of this video by the way because you know me being me it said the actual title of the video says that linux myth is a useless distro Tyler I told you he was downloading the internet man I told you also I had to turn the comments off on that video because I was getting literal death threats from people who are so into linux men because it's their thing and they did not like me saying it was useless I remember I think it was like probably two or three months after you post that video I was scrolling through YouTube and they recommended it to me again and I was like oh dude I got to check out the comments like that was my only thought like not watch the video read the comments bro they're bad they're bad you pissed off like the entire internet okay so anyways let's talk about like what is happening to me you've used a cinnamon and you've looked at all the theming options there are like 17 options in all the other different places of course Matt's breaking discord again I just don't even know what's going on at this point it doesn't make any sense and what I mean this isn't even the same version of discord it's in Firefox are we surprised yeah they were talking to the guys still talking about linux men but I'm just giving up for the day I don't care what you're talking about this is obviously not working I'm not changing tabs anymore I think that that's what was happening can you guys hear me we can hear you perfectly fine then we're good did you have anything more to say about well the reason why I asked if you could still hear me is because Steve's just talking about things I know okay the version is good but the thing that I find very funny about your article here is the only thing on here that I see that's like actually really really noteworthy other than the fact that you know the theming shit is finally fixed but HEIF support for like any photos that anybody sends you for like an iPhone or like if you have an iPhone that's pretty needed especially nowadays but I swear Linux Mint is a fantastic distro it really is especially for new users it is really good however we can still joke about their lack of development because either they're far too behind on things or like they don't like I mean you see like the change blocks of some other here's the thing about Linux Mint everybody used to be excited about Linux Mint because they were doing the innovative stuff they're done doing the innovative things now they're at all the boring stuff that they've got to do and that's really what the issue is with Linux Mint to be perfectly honest I don't know that it's an issue but it still allows people like us to publicly joke about them when they do make an update because it's always like the most that you get like emotionally out of any like update that comes out of Linux Mint is like cool there's nothing past that Linux Mint feels like one of those distributions that's going to happen I tried Cinnamon recently on Arch because Arch has the latest version and looks exactly the same like the old one I didn't notice anything different yeah well there there is no Cinnamon hardly ever changes man it's pretty much the same as XFCE like it rarely changes if ever what were you going to say why bother what's the point I don't even remember let's just move off this XFCE is very Steve what are you talking about very odd indeed hey Steve he can't hear me that's what's going on he can't hear me I don't think you can hear Matt that's the reason why he keeps talking over me because he can't hear me we were wondering like we were wondering why you kept talking over Matt but like you know no one had a problem with it but it's because you can't hear him why can't I hear him I thought he broke discord no I'm still here I was here pouting because nobody was listening to me and I wasn't going to stop him because I just figured because you thought it was hilarious now I can hear you now I can hear you to be honest the only reason I didn't say anything and I guess Josh didn't say anything is Steve really hadn't been talking that much so he figured he was just trying to get his word in to be honest with you I didn't know Matt was trying to say anything either that's fine you can't hear me either now I can hear you just fine you just don't care this is the respect I get alright let's go ahead who's the intel arc one it's not me even though my computer is 10% faster I see us go now so the intel arc one is mine alright Tyler take us away would you alright and this one definitely pertains to Josh when I found this article I genuinely would like to check the notes to see if you had already posted it because if anyone knows anything about Josh he does actually run an arc GPU now and so the driver change the newest driver update with Mesa has actually added a big performance enhanced on the intel GPU stack so it's upwards or like 11% of a performance improvement which is really good especially if you know anything about arc CPUs they're not competing with the highest level GPUs out there anyway so an 11% improvement is definitely good and I gotta be honest it's it's not often that I see intel arc news and especially something that's like this good this is very good and as far as I know it's like it helps out on most intel arc GPUs but the the dg2 alchemist ones which I don't the dg2 is the arc GPUs okay okay I didn't know when I was talking about meteor lake they're talking about the embedded graphics on the CPUs you have to love intel's naming schemes they're just always so fantastic that's kind of the problem with all hardware so intel arc is actually not the first time that intel has actually made a dedicated graphics card which dg2 literally stands for dedicated graphics so this is dedicated graphics too because they had a previous line of dedicated graphics cards about 30 years ago yeah I actually I know someone who has one of those cards they're extremely rare he's literally never even put in a computer he's just got it like mounted in like a case and on the wall because it's just as far as I know they never released them publicly his is an engineering sample so like that's pretty cool but yeah line is effective yeah but to be honest I will say the intel arc news probably doesn't affect most people most people didn't just buy an intel card or an intel GPU just to play with it Josh is out there okay okay okay so when I bought the arc gpu was not a good time to buy an arc gpu at this point nowadays with the latest Ubuntu point release debbing 12 having theoretical support there is a way to get debbing to boot with an intel arc gpu you have to modify the kernel command line and grub but right now is actually not a bad time to actually look at that arc gpu that is marked for like $220 and it's the top tier a770 model which is equivalent to like an nvidia $230.60 or I think it's equivalent to like an AMD $6700 or something like that it's closer to a $6600 which is what I have which is at the same price yeah either way there's not that much of a performance difference between them but it's not a bad time to actually be looking at that arc gpu and actually legitimately considering it for the purchase they're not bad graphics cards they're just I mean most people just for sheer driver support are going to go with an AMD card just because they're similarly matched in price but to be fair this could age like milk because I totally see arc gpu dropping in price again because just because of the sheer quantity of them and there's not that many people buying them so that said the driver improvements alone have shown that these that they did a really good job with this first generation product there are still some headaches with it and overall though it has been nothing but an impressive experience for me the entire time because you know I'm sitting here I was booting up and running original doom on the gpu and I was getting the gpu acceleration working and everything I wasn't using dxvk or anything I was just using opengl okay so can I ask a question or a prediction for you Josh because you're the only knowledgeable one here five years from now do you think that intel is still making dedicated gpu's yes there's a reason why I say this because the way intel works is when they come out with product they're going to support that product for five years that's going to be first, second and third generations fine let me amend it ten years from now do you think so ten years from now it depends if we actually buy the gpu's which at this point people are buying the gpu's so I say yes Josh's credit for that question I do have to say I think Josh has got a very good point because for one they're definitely going to come out with if if you know anything about hardware they're definitely coming out with a next generation knowing intel and their manufacturing processes you also got to understand I think a lot of people are going to start purchasing them more and seeing a more performance improvement because you have to understand how poor which again they're building drivers from scratch and like these are it's new complete new hardware everything so you have to understand there is no Nvidia graphics update pretty much ever that is it just a normal update that's not fixing a severe crippling bug that gives you ten to eleven percent more performance improvement that just doesn't happen the only reason the only reason it would ever happen with an Nvidia or AMD driver is because the driver is either not supporting something or there's a bug with Intel they're literally developing out their driver stacks so it's getting better and better constantly that said we are at the edge of performance for x86 and Intel has made all their money off of x86 for the longest time and x86 probably isn't going to be going anywhere for a while but that market is shrinking in comparison to both risk 5 and arm so I think that Intel is going to try to continue to push the dedicated graphics for as long as they possibly can because it is another market and they need to diversify Steve you got your hand up just pop in bro or is he frozen I'm just expecting things to go wrong at this point when people start talking about R2GPUs it's like a turn off I'm sorry just switch off I'm left Intel in the wind long time ago and AMD I'm hoping to become a 100% AMD guy but unfortunately because of the lack of funds I'm stuck with this NVIDIA 1080 in my system that I see as a virus in my system because I'm a 100% Linux user I don't care for Windows I definitely do agree with your point though because now that I'm all AMD and the way AMD functions as a company when it comes to their code base I need to admit another thing I'm looking at it you guys are talking as users I'm looking at it from a distro maintainer's point of view as you are talking as you are talking because you can no longer take the distro maintainer out of me it's part of me now forever to your point Josh don't you have to do some special stuff don't you need like extra packages or a specific version of a package to get Intel Arc functioning it's just a specific all you need for Intel graphics to get the R2GPU to actually post on your system you need to have a 6.2 or newer kernel and Mesa 22 or newer I think it's like 22.7 or something like that you got to have newer already passed that point yeah and now if your distribution is using the latest LTS kernel you have a problem it's the 6.1 kernel you can actually just change a launch option in grub and be able to get a display output and you will still have the hardware acceleration and everything like Nvidia and Waylon you have to add the DRM stuff now unlike all the other distributions the Intel drivers are built into the kernel itself so say if you install Arch Linux do not install XF XF86-video-intel do not install that package you don't need it whatsoever if you install that package you will completely abort your graphic performance exactly because it happened with a couple of users they had an ArchGPU and they were wondering why their system wasn't booting I was like 0 Linux has XF86-video-intel on it because up until now people had ArchGPUs Intel iGPUs they didn't have the ArchGPU you're the first guy it's because the ArchGPU does not use the i9-15 driver it uses the XC driver that's only in the kernel the XF86-intel driver that's packaged in Arch Linux is actually mislabeled that's actually the package library front end for the i9-15 driver that only supports 8th gen or older CPUs I remember you talking about this before the reason I was saying from a distro maintenance point of view from a distro maintenance point of view supporting the ArchGPU is simple I don't have to include anything I don't have to do anything but I have to keep mentioning to people if you have I cannot include I cannot include the XF86-video-intel if I want people with ArchGPUs to use it because it's gonna completely bork their system that's the reason for which I had to remove it for people who are running ancient iGPUs and i9-15 drive based on integrated GPUs I tell them install this package I have to tell them to install it manually I cannot include it on the ISO and also I feel like most people who have a problem when they boot into a system using it and just an Intel iGPU are going to that's gonna be the first thing they check for because pretty much everyone who's used Linux for any amount of time and ever running Intel CPU has seen that package on their system at some point or someone reference it because I do remember back in the day a lot of distros included a lot of distros is still included to this day a lot of these ArchGPU distributions, Manjaro included include that package in the system and yes it works if you're using the integrated graphics chip on your system but you're still sacrificing the performance it's not an issue if you're on 12th gen or newer CPUs the driver will check to see those CPU models and then just disable itself and just disable it that doesn't happen with the ArchGPUs because you know Intel hasn't flipped that switch yet and also integrated graphics are treated very differently from dedicated dedicated graphics in like the kernel stack so it's a bit of a different process it's not as easy as a switch alright fellas let's go ahead and move on to the last one who has the distro box one that's Steve, Steve tell us what this is would you please alright sir I'll I'll ease the pain I'll ease the pain basically distro box 1.5 released with NVIDIA GPU container support so basically now there's NVIDIA GPU support for distro box so basically with today's distro box 1.5 update there is initial NVIDIA GPU support for containers with distro box aiming to share the host driver support with the container basically like GPU pass through to the VM but since distro box is not a VM I don't know why that wasn't the case but so I'm testing cubes like I promised you guys last week or the week before I discovered yeah if cubes can do it via real VMs what can distro box do it I was reading this article and I was like huh! distro box is not supposed to be a VM it's supposed to be for host machines yeah it's containers and then this is just hooking GPU pass into the container direct access to your GPU I'm like kind of like flatbacks distro box is kind of like flatback now it has full access to your entire system that's very cool that's gonna give people another reason to use distro box now when you use distro box do you run graphical environments in it you uh you can but it's not recommended the way that distro box works is distro box is just a front end for docker and podband which you can run graphical applications through yeah my question is I'm sorry I phrased that completely wrong have either of you used graphical environments or GUI applications inside of distro box GUI application yes state in life is the window just like it spawns as a regular window in fact uh if you're using it from a graphical user user interface user distro box will actually make a desktop file entry and everything for you and it works just like any other application in fact distro box is built off of the same technology that flatback is because distro box is using podband both podband and flatback will actually use OS tree so what you're basically just launching is an OS tree container so could you run a uh like a window manager or something like that out of it uh theoretically you should be able to run a wayland composite not an x11 session it has to be wayland that actually does make sense I do understand that so wait okay have either of you tried running an actual like DE like a wayland composite or anything in it okay that's the only thing that I would be interested in trying I sense a challenge for me I tried Kaden live and Kaden live worked just fine and you know laugh at me when I tell you how I discovered that GPU is actually the GPU support is actually working direct the window and I made sure that the wobbly windows effect works just so the way the way that it works is and this is primarily the reason why you have to use a wayland compositor through a container is that is that there's extra flags that you would have to set up but in order for you to actually have like a full graphical session running via podband you basically have to pass through like the display outputs into the container itself Tyler if you've ever installed or looked at a silver blue right there is the answer to your question because when you're booting into silver blue guess what you're booting into a podband container your entire distribution is a podband container yeah makes sense so what you're saying is I broke it when I installed BSPWM cause I did do that and it survived an update so it worked fine yeah well the digital box is pretty neat especially when you want to that said if we're going to turn that into a challenge I already won just go to github.com slash 10lej slash htpc that is a fedora silver blue image designed to load kodi in a cage session kodi kodi could be worse but before josh cut you off you were saying something what were you saying I was saying the digital box is pretty neat I was just testing it because I read this in the article but it's pretty neat because I was able to do fedora packages on Arch it felt kind of weird to be installing rpms the first time you try it feels like magic and it also feels really wrong especially if you're using apt what's going on we have to finish up guys unfortunately we do not have time for things of the week this week so we're going to have to push those off until next week we probably would have had time if we hadn't had to deal with all the technological bullshit that we went on in this podcast if you made it all the way to the end watching live god bless your little soul you're awesome I'll belittling the people that wasn't even mockering that was literally true appreciation and astonishment Steve why is anybody still watching this if we look at the thing there's 73 people at one point watching this live also I saw your super chat I don't know what it said I apologize for that apparently you just wanted to do something I don't think I did and then you put a JK at the end of it also I'm pretty sure guys that the reason why Discord keeps crashing is because someone in my server keeps fucking pinging me stop that like you know it's someone who's watching the podcast right now is doing it just to troll me and if it's that's why I used to ping you I know you did apparently that's the way to get on the podcast that only worked once anyways that is it for this episode we record this live they fucking did it again was that you Steve I don't know whoever did that I'm firing you're fired anyways that's it for this episode we went on for entirely too long we went to an hour and 30 minutes actually it's not a record for us but it feels like this podcast went on forever thanks to everybody who just support me on patreon at patreon.com you guys are all absolutely amazing without you the channel would not be anywhere near where it is right now so thank you so very very much for your support what hold on hold on what before we end the stream you must see someone just said they'll send you 10 bucks in a super chat if we do the thingies of the week you want to make an extra 10 bucks fine thingies of the week we'll do them however you say your username we better be seeing that $10 chat you better put me up the cash Josh your thingie of the week my thingie of the week is this wonderful device right here and yes it is Rhinoam this is the pine phone it's the KDE edition so that's why I got the KDE logo on this is kind of travesty yeah I know but you know it's running fosh which this is gnome I can pull up like the settings dialog which takes like half a minute to load on because you know it's a pine phone it's the first generation one in fact right there's the settings they just pulled up that is the gnome setting menu that looks very much a lot like it right it actually is the gnome settings panel it's just responsive yeah yeah right here it's running devian too you guys in your super chats are all going to pay for josh helping with gen 2 we're at the $20 so far that buys you 4 hours of support that involves compiling too so yeah I've been running it on Mobian right now I'm still working on like trying to figure out how to get the MMS working actually I it's because you know my carrier is not on a free to find list so I kind of have to reverse engineer it a little bit so I'm working my way through it but I've gotten texting working I've even gotten GPS navigation working the only issues that the only issue with GPS is that it's not turn by turn directions but it will give you directions on how to get where you're going but it's not active turn by turn and even then you can't just pull up and make dollars in your area unfortunately OpenStreetMaps is pretty detailed but it's not that detailed yet I did try installing gen 2 on this by the way not surprising I could get the display working but I could not get networking working thank you Gromy for the super chat also thank you Nate for the other super chat I appreciate that Steve you're thinking of the week I think of the week it's called Amarok Amarok I don't know how you pronounce it Amarok Amarok well it's an audio player made by the KDE people for KDE I was astonished at what it can do when you click a song it brings up all sorts of information and that's not from the ID3 tag because the ID3 tag can only hold so much it connects to the internet and it pulls all the details it's kind of like flex for your music library yeah it pulls all the metadata that's pretty awesome metadata and it uses I'm using Kevantum it uses the system theme because it's KDE it's made by KDE can you save the metadata locally so that if you were to use a different music player some other time it would see it I believe it does cache it but it doesn't save it I didn't see a save option that'd be awesome way to fix your music library if you have crappy somewhat illegally downloaded music to save the tags for me the only type of music I have are the visual movies movie soundtracks and game soundtracks that's all I have I don't have regular music I have Ennio Morricone, Ninorota John Williams those kind of things so very niche kind of music not your average I have all those things too so I can't judge I do have Metallica this is an exception Metallica because I've been following them since the 80s Metallica is pretty awesome so it pulls all the metadata and part of the metadata what surprised me was it tells you if that was recorded a concert or was it a studio recorded or everything all the details that's cool doesn't spare anything and the UI is not bad and if you want to rip your own library to save it locally to your hard drive the process is so seamless and it pulls the metadata while it's ripping oh it's it's amazing it's an amazing tool and the audio on it is supports FLAC supports APE the deprecated version of FLAC I guess but it still supports it mp3's anything everything highly recommended especially if you're using KDE blur transparency and when I saw Nicolo's video today he was talking about how he liked everything transparent and blurred I was like hey I'm part of the same that's another KDE app that doesn't start with K it has a K in it though it's also developed by an independent team from KDE alright thank you Devin for the super chat I'm glad you still like the show despite all the horrendous things that went on during it Tyler your thingy of the week my thingy of the week is Rofi-Wayland cause I switch over to my desktop to show off I am also using transparent stuff but also at the same time show off my Rofi launcher I know in the stream and stuff it's going to be really small and probably people can't really see all that much but I was using Rofi on Wayland which is a Rofi fork just like Rofi-Wayland but Rofi-Wayland is most the reason I'm using it right now is most likely it's going to be the one that gets pulled upstream so when actual just default Rofi gets proper Wayland support I have a feeling they're just going to merge it merge from this project in there and then then I'll just start running are you sure Rofi is not the ooo version of Rofi the ooo fight version of Rofi uh it is not there's one actually there's one called Rofi they're not the same Steve when Tyler is talking about is actually Rofi-Wayland Rofi with an R there is one called Wofi with a W they're different the amount of Rofi ports or forks that their only purpose is adding proper Wayland support there is so many Rofi-Wayland, Tofi, Wofi and more there's a lot more it's wild it feels like that's one of the first application alternatives that was developed for a lot of things I'm sorry I don't know how to pronounce your name Galaxy, something or the other thank you for the super chat, glad you like the show alright so my thing of the week I'm going to go really quick is Lemmy it's a Reddit alternative it's federated just like Macedon or some of the others and it is not as well baked or as Macedon was when the Twitter nonsense went off but if you've been following the Reddit nonsense a lot of people have been going over to Lemmy a lot of them been going to Cabin I haven't tried Cabin yet so there are alternatives to Reddit if you don't want to use Reddit anymore if you're one of those people who just really don't like what they've been doing lately and I'm one of those I like my third party apps guys I really really do and they're taking that away so well are charging like $20 million for API access which is just that's bonkers anyways now there's your thing of the week you guys asked and you half received you'd have to pay for it but we did it anyways that is it for us this episode I really do need to go otherwise they're going to need to be a container of urine here somewhere it's just really bad I got to go to the bathroom anyways thanks everybody for watching you guys really really needed to know that I'm sorry for that anyways I will talk to you later we'll all see you next week adios