 We demystify what goes on behind the therapy room door. Join us on this voyage of discovery and co-creative conversations. This is The Therapy Show behind closed doors podcast with Bob Cook and Jackie Jones. Welcome back to the next episode of The Therapy Show behind closed doors with the wonderful Mr Bob Cook and myself Jackie Jones and we're on episode 106. Gosh, we're climbing up and for people on the YouTube channel, I don't want to say because you'll be watching it, you look very full of energy, Jackie, it's good to see. Yeah, the sunlight coming through my window, which makes me always makes me look a bit better. Yeah. Thank you for that, Bob. You're not looking to bad yourself. Oh, yeah, yeah. What we're going to be talking about this week is the top 10 questions clients asking therapy. Yes, no, I put this title, I'll pick a lot of the titles, but this one is all the titles, Bob. It's what appealed to me in my mind anyway, because I've done quite a few videos over the long time now on what their best ask clients. And if you put that question to Google, I'm sure you're going to get lots of discussions and videos on that. But I rarely see a video or podcast, which is discussing what clients ask therapists and what's important for clients to ask therapists. So that's why I put this title forward. And I'll kick it off if that's okay. You go for it, Bob. Yeah, I'm going to use the PAC model here, parent adult child and those people listening and watching. I hope by now you've got the basic model of transaction analysis. Because I think clients ask questions from different ego states, according to where they are in the therapy. Okay, so let's just start off for adult questions, which often at the beginning, of course, their clinical treatment, or, or sometimes the parent questions, which are driven by belief systems or from the pounding state. I think one of the sort of important questions to ask therapists at the beginning is things like, how long will the therapy continue in your opinion? You know, obviously, how much does it cost on the one? Yeah. You know, have you got qualifications yourself, for example? I've never been asked that, Bob. Well, I have. Never once been asked if I'm qualified. Wow. Wow. Literally, it's surprising, isn't it? But never, never once been asked. Have you had to be yourself? Have I? Yes. No, no, that's a question. Oh, right. Well, that's a question. I was going to say yes, I have. I think clients, it's an interesting question to ask them. Do they have specialisms? Yeah. So there's a host of questions that I suggest clients can think about asking. If we talk about ones that I've been asked, let's start with the one you say you've never been asked, which is about qualifications. So I've been seeing clients for, as I say, 37 years, you know, I've recently stopped seeing individual clients. And, you know, I'm sort of on your page, really. And that is, it's, I could probably count on my hand how many times I've ever been asked that question. Now, interestingly, again, of course, if we, if the therapy counts and profession ever gets licensed by the government, with some sort of licensing, you would actually get a license number. Yeah. Client carrying, they see a nice little plaque or something. So if you want to see an astropath, for example, or that profession is regulated, that's what you would see. Yeah. So, you know, clients will see that and might be sued by that or not. I was interested when you said you've never been asked that one. Right, never. So what's that about, do you think? Do you think both clients just assume because of some sort of magical reason that you're qualified? Or are you going to say that it's because the clients have become because they've been recommended? Or? I honestly don't know. I don't know whether it's the term psychotherapist just gives an air of qualification. I don't know whether if I was a counselor or a coach or I don't know. I don't know whether it's the title. But no, never, never once been asked if I'm qualified or how long I've been qualified or anything or what type of psychotherapist I am. Well, that's that's an amazing sentence construction. I think it's useful for clients to perhaps certainly ask the second question. You know, what sort of model of quite psychotherapist you come from, which I have been asked quite a lot time far more than am I qualified? No, it's me that volunteers that and then talks a little bit about it to me. But yeah, no, never been asked. So it's also an interesting when I trained people to be psychotherapists, we used to have a weekend on marketing yourself. And people who have got say, MAs or PhDs from other disciplines often ask the question, shall I put for ownership of those on the psychotherapy world, my doctorship, for example? It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because it's in the same ballpark. Do you put your photograph onto websites for your advertising, your own services, for example? And I've got the same answer for both. And it's to do with transfer and some projections. So actually, for some people, if you put PhD, or even a doctor on your website or your card, it may frighten them off. Especially if they've got some sort of projections about academia. Yeah. And for some other people, it might suit them. And it's the same with photographs. People is in the world of projections again. People might like your photograph. And the people might, oh, that reminds me of my aunt or my first girlfriend or whatever. I love the way that you say that, because it's something that never never crossed my mind until we have this discussion a long time ago. I'm not even sure whether you remember it because I put my picture on my business card. And you go, why have you put your picture on your business cards? And you said all of this. For me, I was doing it because of my own personal feelings that I would like to see who's going to open the door. If I didn't have a vision of who it was, I probably wouldn't go to them. So yeah, and I connect with people visually. So I wasn't looking at it from the client's point of view. I was looking at it from your point of view. Yeah, it's so interesting those questions. So around qualifications, rarely have I been asked that. In fact, you're quite right. I have, I know, but it's usually around UKCP, are you UKCP regulated? Now, I don't have cards, can you believe it or not? When I sort of started off, I must have had cards and I must have advertised. But it would say on there whether I was UKCP accredited or not. If they came through recommendation, they might ask me that question. I think it's useful to think about those terms in terms of protection or client to ask that. I mean, invariably, the major question that a client would ask me, I'd be interested in when I asked the question to you. The major question is, or even if it's not answered from the adult, it's certainly answered from the child, is how long, you know, is it fixable? Am I fixable? Can I be cured? How long will it take? Those sorts of questions and usually from the child eager state. Yeah, I've been asked that, how long does it last? And not just this session, how long will I need to come for before I'm fixed? Yeah, that's the bit that might not be saved before I'm fixed. And it's usually a question from a child, I think. Yeah. It can be a course from the adult. And in the same vein, and now with the sort of economic climate that we live in, even more prevalent, when people might say, is it okay for me to come fortnightly? Do I have to always come weekly, for example? Yeah. And I understand that very much in the economic climate we live in. And different therapists might have different answers to that. Yeah. I mean, I'm quite clear on that. And that actually, I say back, well, and is it for economic reasons? And if it is, which it usually is, I don't, sorry, this is what I tell Thope is with his discussion, rather than I see them now. But if it is, I'll say I understand that. However, therapy will take longer if you go fortnightly. And for lots of reasons. Because if you go fortnightly, which is 14 days, which is a long time, by the way, hold your anxiety and everything else. The first part of that session will probably be the therapist catching up with you from what you be doing for 14 days. Secondly, your psychological defense systems will have longer to go up. So, in other words, for them to start coming down again, or that level of vulnerability to be around, the therapist, it will take longer. I was always intrigued by that. But I was also intrigued by psychoanalysts that wanted to see clients three times a week. And I asked a few psychoanalysts why? And I eventually found a book called Ego State Therapy, which gave me a reason I really understood. And that is the longer that you wait from session to session. So, if you waited a week or two weeks, then it gives more time for the psychological defenses that you have to come up again. The shorter you leave it, the more you're vulnerable and open you are to psychological query. It does make sense, but three times a week is a bit excessive. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I mean, I'm not an advocate of psychoanalysts, as you know particularly. So, you know, I think it's very expensive. It goes on for a long time. But in terms of working people's defense systems, when I run psychotherapy mountains, for example, I used to over five days and over three days, and I still do some three-day ones, they're much more vulnerable and open because it's the next day. Yeah, I've done a three-day one with you, and yeah, I do understand that. But that's like a one-off for it, you know, to me. But to do that, you know, all the time. But that's the reasoning I read in the book, and that's the reasoning probably a psychoanalysts, if they were talking to another, might well say, for example. Yeah, I usually say to clients that we agree to do four weekly to start off with, and then we'll reassess it after four weeks. So, they come every week for four weeks, and then we can chat and discuss it. And some will do that four weeks and then go away and, you know, they're fine with it, and other ones will continue every week, or we might do it once a fortnight after that. But I do agree, it does give them more time to put the defences up. And the beginning of the next session, usually 10 or 15 minutes, is just catching up on what's happened over the last fortnight. So, I totally agree with what you were saying, yeah. Yeah, and psychotherapy will take longer. Yeah. So, actually, financially it becomes counterproductive. Yeah. However, I have said all that, I do understand in that question and that process in the times that we live in now. Yeah. But yeah, one of the questions qualifications, another one is, you know, about, you know, is it weekly, is it fortnightly? Another one, how long will it take, and in brackets before I've fixed? Yes. What questions did you see on Google then, really? One of them was, you know, how can I manage my symptoms outside of therapy? Or what happens outside of therapy? Oh, right, that's an interesting one. Yeah. So, that's sort of, from the, well, it could be from the, I don't know again, but it could also be from a child, basically saying things like, from the child, you will take care of me, you will look at for me, you will account for me. Yeah. But it's all in the ballpark, really, isn't it? The question which is, will there be a plan? Yes. Yeah. Is there a homework I'll have to do? Yeah. So, I went to see, I started Pilates, not recently. Well, fairly recently ago. And I asked a question, I asked her, actually, which was, will I have to do homework? And she said, oh, well, get to know you first. And then yes, basically. Yeah. I mean, that's a physical therapy, isn't it? So, psychologically, I think it's a good question. It's like, will I, will I have to do homework? Is there a plan for me? Are the things I have to read? These are questions that often will appear. Yeah. And, you know, I suppose in the first session, I have with quite, I kind of preempt a lot of these questions and stay a lot, you know, before they even ask the question. But one of the things is about how confidential is therapy? That is a common question. Yeah. And I think it's a very protective question for a client to ask. Yeah. So you, so I would imagine, you know, the therapist might have that in their heads to say before the client says it. But I think if the clients don't hear the therapist say that, they need to check it up. Yeah. But that is something that I say right from the get go genutamine. And I usually phrase it, unless I think that you're going to harm yourself or harm somebody else. So put yourself at risk or put somebody else at risk. You know, I won't speak to anybody other than my supervisor, who I do share things with. And that's pretty much it. Yeah. So these are the questions appear. And I think the important question is often from that old eager state or the child eager state. But then I think there's often a lot of questions which come transferentially. Yeah. From the child. And those are very different really. And one sections of questions, which I have to think about a lot, but comes regularly if you're doing any child eager state work. And that's personal questions about the therapist. Now it's the child's desire, often through idealization or often through the search for security, the search for soothing may ask personal questions of the client's life or home life. You know, out of curiosity, out of many different as I always have to think carefully before I answer those. Because a certain, certain types of crimes, I would hesitate being too personal with. Yeah. That makes sense to you. If you have those sorts of questions. Yeah. I have been asked certain questions. And it's like I can remember as part of our training, we did, I don't know whether it was a day or an afternoon on how our therapy room should be set up. Do you know what I mean? I don't know whether people on YouTube will be able to see behind that there's a picture on my wall that is of my son. But it just looks like a picture. Nobody can identify my son. But about not having anything personal in the room, so no family pictures or anything that can be offensive in any way. So it's quite neutral and bland. Like at Christmas, I'm really conscious of not putting Christmas decorations up. Well, that's all to do with projections, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. That's just that. I think the child's desire, out of curiosity, I understand that from an almost a sense of normal, normalness. However, you know, if you've got a fairly disturbed client, then I don't think it's healthy, particularly the therapist to go into a lengthy discussion about where they live and what the house is like and their pets, their dogs, their wife, their girlfriends or whatever it is, or they go running every morning or they eat cornflakes instead of porridge or they like this or they like that. I mean, I think that's a dangerous and even maybe unhealthy road to go down. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. For some people, I would imagine it's a way of connecting, but just being polite and asking certain questions, but it's how much you divulge of your life personally. Yeah, absolutely. And I suggest not much. Yeah. No, the therapist, how can I explain this? Therapy is not about clients and therapists necessarily being friends. No. It might be an arena where there's friendliness around between the two people. Yeah. It's not about, you know, the client being friends with the therapist or even the therapist being friends with the clients. That's a different process. That's why I said the questions, the desire for connections come from the child ego state, I think. Yeah. Especially if you work transferentially. Yeah. Yeah, I do agree. And there is a fine line in, you know, having the therapeutic relationship and it becoming very familiar with clients. And I do feel uncomfortable with that. There's a definite line for me. Yeah. And I think that needs to be thought about. Contact outside of therapy, you know what I mean? Unless it's organised, you know, if they want to cancel or postpone or something like that, that's fine. But, you know, I make it a point of not having contact with clients via messages in between sessions. I agree with all these professional boundaries. And when I was thinking of the title of questions the clients would ask, it is, I think, important to differentiate between the clients, the questions that clients ask from their child and their adult and parent. Yeah. Yeah. Because the conversations and the answers can be misconstrued if they're coming from a child point of view, you know what I mean? And also, if you're going down that road, then, you know, they can feel abandoned or, you know what I mean? Disappointed and all those sort of things. If it's coming from an adult to adult and it's a conversation, then that's fine. But if they're coming at it from a child's place, yeah, things can be misunderstood a lot more, I think. And to be fair, clients are in that child place a lot in the therapy room. Yeah. So you think when you share information of yourself in response to those quite intimate questions? Yeah. And I think the therapist needs to reflect on that. Yeah. And I also looked at some questions on Google. Oh, well, what do you know? I think questions were. So number one was around how long have you practiced? Secondly, and I've, I don't think, now, you talk about a question about qualifications. I don't think I've ever been asked that. No. You know, I'd never think. Now, that doesn't mean it's not a question you might not ask out of protectiveness. As I say, number two, what is your training and certification? I don't know how often I've been asked that. I have been asked, are you a TA therapist, humanistic therapist, relational therapist? And most clients don't understand the difference anyway. No. I have been asked that. What therapeutic approaches do you use? And are they right for my issues? No, never been asked that either. No. What would be your suggested plan for me? Are you registered? Well, we've just talked about that. Have you worked with others with a similar issue background to me? Well, I've been asked that. Have you worked trauma? Have you worked with sexual abuse, etc., etc.? Yeah. I think I've been asked if I work with certain people. Yeah. I've never been asked the next one. Do you have supervision? No. That's an interesting one. I've been asked, anyway, have you attended therapy yourself? I've often been asked, do I offer sliding scale, by the way? But that's an admin sort of question in my mind. I've often been asked, do I offer Skype sessions or Zoom therapy and all that. I've never been asked what were your reasons for being a therapist. I've never been asked that. I've been asked what's your policies around insurance, cancellation, payment, things like that. So, that's what I say. I think they come from different ego states. Yeah. A lot of that is in my contract, to mean about cancellation policies and the admin sort of stuff. One of the things that came up when I asked this question was, what can I expect from therapy? Which I thought was quite an interesting question. That's been asked, and my response usually to that is, well, what's your expectations of therapy? People listening to this might be, that's me giving back the question. Doing a typical psychotherapy thing. You know, but you know, it's interesting because it's cure the expectation for clients. I bet you, if he did say that back, they'd probably say, just to be, I don't know, I haven't been asked that actually, just to have a more healthy life or be more contented, less depressed. Again, I have that on my contract. It says, what are you hoping to get from therapy? And usually people put to be happier. Yeah. Very odd. Then you have to say, what do you mean by happier? Well, what I usually say to them is, I will win or when you get there. What would that look like? In the transference, of course, the next question I'm going to ask can be said from adults or child, which is, you know, how will I know when therapies ended? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a bit more simple to answer because it's contractual. Yes. Yeah. When we've achieved the contract or the goals or whatever that is. But again, I still think the questions that come from the younger child are usually around the desire for contact. Another way of looking at questions, by the way, is if you see therapeutically or therapy the way that I see therapy, that's developmental. And the idea that people will enact out their script or their early decisions in the therapy room. So the clues to what some people may ask of the therapist will come from how their relationship with their significant other people. Yeah. So they then project onto the therapist and they may ask queries, questions accordingly. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think, you know, in the first session when I'm seeing a client for the first time that they ask an awful lot of questions, really. I think maybe it comes over time that they'll ask questions. I usually have a phone call with the first 10-minute telephone conversation where they might ask some questions in that. But it's interesting. Well, yeah. And I think from a parent place, it's made me think, should clients be asking more questions, particularly at the beginning of therapy? And I think that will, that will really replicate their relationship with their significant caretakers that they had in their childhood. I was thinking in terms of protection, for example. Yeah. The self. Yeah. But there's a lot of questions 10-year-old will ask and 13-year-old will ask and 7-year-old will ask are very different from perhaps when the person's in their adult legal state, not some questions from the age they are actually. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think one that I do get asked quite a lot throughout, you know, the therapy, is that normal? Is what I'm doing normal? People often want some sort of reassurance that I've seen it before or is it normal behaviour? Yeah. And yeah, right. I might get that. And my response is usually around an attempt to normalise what they think because underneath that question is usually the fear that their eccentric odd. Yeah. Crazy on that sort of level. Yeah. That's where perhaps their history is or people around them have defined them. Yeah. It's been strange or different or yeah. That's what I'm saying. So the questions from the child legal state I think are different as the therapy goes on, especially if you work transparently and developmentally like me than often the adult questions at the beginning. Yeah. What is really important though is that as the relationship develops from a trust place and building the rapport with the client, that the more the client trusts the therapist, there's more of a field opening up for the client to be able to ask the queries and questions they never felt they were able to ask either in their history or in fact in present day. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I know maybe I bring this up quite a lot in the podcast is that you know, fear of being asked certain questions. I probably felt that an awful lot in the early days of practicing, whereas now I'm quite open to answer any questions, do you know what I mean? It's like when you were saying about where you live and what's your house like, I work from home. So people usually know where I live and they know the type of house that I have. So there's certain questions that do you know what I mean? I don't need to answer, but I can remember feeling like I needed a backlog of answers just in case I was asked all this in the early days, whereas now I'm quite open to having a conversation with clients. Yeah, I think experience comes into this. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And through experience, you will know the red flags. Yeah. Because there are red flags. Yeah. Yeah. Usually around levels of intimacy. Yeah. And it's usually around the fact they weren't able to have that intimate connected relationship, which they should have had really with their significant caretakers. Yeah. Their desire for a different outcome then often gets enacted out transferentially with the therapist. Yeah. And I think the therapist really needs to be aware of red flags in this sort of area, because too much personal information divulged isn't always helpful. No, no. For the therapist. Totally agree, yeah. And trust your intuition as well. Do you know what I mean? If it feels wrong, then it probably is. That's a good one. That's a good thing to follow. So questions, you are, as I said, I think they come from different ego states. And, you know, it's many of the admin ones around price and cost and can we go fortnightly? Can we get all those ones we talked about earlier in the podcast? I understand. I like you don't have many questions about qualifications and you know, have you studied transaction analysis or bestowed psychotherapy or person-centred? Maybe if the person's audio therapy is the counsellor, they might ask that question, but it's rare. It might be because most people find me through my website and that information is already on my website. So, you know, to me, they don't need to ask the question. Yeah. But as you go on in therapy, I think the therapy is, sorry, go on in therapy, the questions often come from, you know, the younger developmental ages that you're working with than the adult. Yeah. I, by the way, always encourage people to make the queries and questions if you want to put it that way, the increased dialogue with me because often I'm working with people who have been neglected or withdrawn or been over-defined and they've never been allowed to have that natural expression, significant others. There should be an example of a healthy dialogue. Yeah. If they never were allowed. It's that fine line and you just talked about in terms of red flags between over familiarity, identification and that road, which yeah, I think the therapist needs to think about carefully. Yeah. I think so too. And you know, ultimately, our own safety has to be a priority and if you are getting, you know, that feeling or that red flag, then you need to prioritise your own safety, particularly if you're working like me, you know what I mean, from your home on your own at times and things like that, you need to be mindful. Yeah. Because the, oh, definitely, definitely that area, what you've just talked about there, you have to be very careful. I mean, another question I have asked me far more than am I qualified and where, what model I do work for is from the very younger self of the client is things like do you love me? Wow. Or are you always going to be thinking about me? Do you think about me at home? Do you care about me? And would you be always there for me? Because it's the younger child that desperately needs that sort of relationship they never had. Yeah. So you've been asked that. Many times. And they're different types of questions. It's like the girl or the boy asking the dad or the mum. Yeah. But I work at that level of development transparently or what I did. Yeah. And I look at those questions through a relational field and think, and of course understand that from the three year old or the seven year old or the nine year old, and I desire to have a different outcome and to have a different inaction to get some healing. So how would you answer that question then? Which one? About it. Do you love me? Do you think about me in between sessions or whatever? Because I would find it hard then to keep that boundary. Do you know what I mean? I wouldn't want my clients to think that I thought about them all the time outside of the very room or anything. Well, I had very good go back to the history. So somebody said to me, do you think about me from session to session? I would say, is this what you desired such a long time ago and didn't get with your parents? Somebody would be there consistently, have a level of dependability, look out for you as healthy parents should. Are you saying to me in code, that this is what you desired for and never had? So you wouldn't actually answer the question then? Well, I am Jackie because the question has come from a developmental perspective. So the question has come from the younger self, the nine year old, the traumatised self. So I'm going back there to answer it. I'm answering it from where the trauma was, not like two years old and a 20 year old because it's not like an adult to adult question. It's from a traumatic child to the person they wanted to be so different. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. So I'm not answering it from the real time because psychological time and real time are two very different things. I want to go back to answer it in a way that the injured child desired they didn't get in other words. And that's a really good way of explaining to me the psychological time is different to real time. Yeah. Very different. I mean, you know yourself on a completely another level, you've been there for a very long time, that no, healing doesn't really take place in the adult to adult world. No. Because that's past timing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, the healing takes place in the child eager state. Now, it depends how as a therapist, it will depend, of course, if you're a developmental transferential therapist, in other words, you go back to quite a long way and you work with the, you know, deep seated trauma and everything else that goes with that. That might be different from a CBT therapist. You might say, well, I'm mainly working with the adult eager state. I don't necessarily agree that by the way, Jackie, I think the child's always there. But the two different types of stars of therapists, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. And you're somebody, I think anyway, because you trained in the way I'm talking about, you will enter dialogue with the child. I think I might on that. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it just become apparent in sessions when they're looking for recognition and validation and those sort of things from that very young place, yeah, which an adult wouldn't do in any other situation really. And what you're doing is giving a response back, which is developmentally aimed at. In other words, the transaction going back is with an awareness that the person in front of you is coming from a different developmental space. Therefore, the response is aimed back in that time and period in terms of healing, rather than the adult space and time. Yeah. So there's lots of questions that we get asked. From many different eager states. From many different eager states. Yeah. And it's good. It's good that we've had this conversation that, you know what I mean? Just to let people know that there are different questions, whether, like you say, it's the contractual questions, whether it's the logistics or whether it goes much deeper than that. Absolutely. And in TA, we're analyzing transactions. There's a stimulus and a response. Yeah. And the stimulus and the response need to be thought of in terms of I think age. In other words, is the stimulus coming from the adult eager state in the here and now probably to the ACR? Or is the stimulus I strove question coming from a different developmental space because that will determine a different transaction back again or a different response back again. Yeah. Interesting, isn't it? It's very interesting, Bob. Yeah. You look at it. I think in TA therapists, we have an advantage in thinking about it that way. Because I would be very surprised that when clients come in your room, you do not think or almost automatically, which eager state does that transaction come from? Yeah. Somewhere, you probably might not explicitly language it like that, but I think you would train that way. So I'll bet you subconsciously that influences your therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Like you say, it's not a conscious thing, but I'm aware of the changes in the shifts that occur. Yeah. And that's the hallmark of your you know, your user therapy. So questions are just the same. Does the question come from adult? Does it come from a child? Does it come from a parent? And then the response back from you will meet that eager state. Yeah. Yeah. It comes into all sorts. Do the PAC system. I use that an awful lot. You know, as an educative thing and a learning thing back from the start and all the way through. Yeah. I think being trained as transaction analysts, I was always fortunate that way because I was honestly, you know, through my training, I was trained to think about which eager states the transactions or stroke questions in this podcast that we're talking about come from, because that will determine my response. Yeah. It's really helpful with couples counselling as well. I use it an awful lot in couples so that they can work out, you know, to me why sometimes they're arguing and the cross transactions and all that sort of stuff. And it's really, really useful, I think. Yeah. Basically in couples counselling, I know we're coming past the end of the podcast, but I want to say in couples counselling, the questions that come from both the clients in couples questions is quite a lot about you being the parent and you being the mediator. So the question is aimed at you giving a favourable response back again. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. So Bob, thank you until next time where we will be discussing the nice therapist phenomena in the therapy room. Oh, people please us. Yes. Interesting. Okie dokie, until next time Bob. Yeah, thank you. Bye. You've been listening to The Therapy Show behind closed doors podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'll be back next week with another episode.