 Thanks for joining our zoom meeting today with the faith based tech connections. We're going to be talking about balancing what's available versus what you need in the age of the digital church and as always this is a conversation that we have with each other. So we want to hear your ideas and we want you to be engaged today. My name is Aretha Simons. I'm the webinar producer here at TechSoup. This is being recorded so everybody who's registered we're going to send you the email replay the video and the slides from today. Now, if this is your first time and one of our meetings. Here's how you can engage you can type your questions in a Q&A. If you have a question use the raise your hand option. There's a little emoji down there and we'll ask you to unmute yourself at that time so you can ask your questions. If you need to close caption it is on so you can see the CC button at the bottom of your screen and just turn that on at the bottom of your zoom menu. I have a feature speaker today with us and I'm so excited because I always love to hear from people in our community. We have Jonathan London. He is a technology in ministry coach that helps small to mid-sized church leaders, leaders transition from hybrid model to a healthy in person and virtual ministry. John, I'm going to turn this over to you. Thank you so much for being here and welcome. And while he's getting ready to share the screen, do me a favor type in the chat room. If you are a first time member here at TechSoup, this is your first time coming to any of our webinars type in the chat room type of one or yes. Okay, awesome. Well, welcome everybody. Welcome. All right, lots of first timers so I put a link in the zoom in the chat. If you would like to join TechSoup, it's free to join TechSoup or you need is your 501-63 EIN and then you can become a member. Okay, Jonathan, I'm going to turn this over to you. Thank you so much for being here. Okay, thank you, Aretha. And I'm excited to be here today to share some great information with you. I hope that you get something out of what we talk about today and we're living in a different time and this material that I'm going to share today really applies whether you are a church or a nonprofit that just has a purpose and you're trying to satisfy your constituency and you're trying to reach out to people. So I hope that this is something that works out for you and I'm excited about it. I'm able to help churches with this and help our church through this to accomplish this. And so we're going to talk a little bit about effective technology and ministry. Now the subject is based on the title of my book, which is effective technology and ministry, a practical guide. And, you know, so, but we're going to spin it a little bit and talk about hybrid church and worship. And these are models now that are a part of a good strategic plan. If you really want to have good outcomes in ministry today, you've got to consider the fact that people are both virtual and they are also, you know, in person are on, you know, on the campus. So let's let's get into it and let's talk a little bit about this and then we'll see if anyone has any questions as we as we wrap up. Feel free to put, you know, questions and things of that nature in the, in the chat as we're going as well. We may be able to come back and touch that. I don't know if we'll get to all of them, but we'll do the best we can. All right, so we're going to talk about six things. It sounds like a lot, but it's not a lot. We'll be done in a minute. We're going to talk about a lot of technology on church ministry when I hit that we're going to talk about adopting a hybrid model for church and worship. And what that is we're going to talk about the role of connected technology and ministry and you may hear that word a lot today connected connectivity. We're going to talk about the benefits of technology for hybrid church. And we're going to look at virtual engagement and the new normal sort of what we're dealing with today post COVID. And then we're going to just touch on a few new trends, things on the watch list and also the important concept of maintaining balance, when it comes to, especially with church ministry because we're not changing anything we're going to do church or anything like that. This is just an add on this is just an assistant to help us to accomplish whatever the mission is we have that we're trying to reach. All right. So let's start with the impact of technology on church ministry and this is a little paragraph I wrote out here I'm just going to speed through this but technology is a powerful tool that has changed how ministers minister right and how ministries. And how servants serve from impressive options for teaching growing disciples on proving back office efficiency and productivity to exciting the signage of marketing when you're marketing. You see signage now that really excites you right, expanding visuals for participants with the big screens or other types of mobile activity where people can see what's going on. And to easing engagement between groups and individuals so that there can be more touch bases going on with video chats and other types of live communication or virtual communication. And the beat goes on there's lots, there's lots of impacts that technology has had on church ministry. This falls in two categories you've got traditional church ministry and you've got church ministry with technology. And the, the, under traditional, these are things you probably like, you know, already know right this isn't new right this physical it's, and sometimes very stationary when you talk about, you know, of course your buildings and you temple synagogues things like that and of classrooms and so on. But the tools for learning also very physical like desktop equipment right whiteboards copiers you know, even Bibles and, and, and other commentaries that's all very physical right, and we're familiar with that. It also involves the paper based record keeping so you know there's, there's file cabinets and you know your normal regular type of file cabinet right it's physical equipment. And then you also have that thing where you know when people walk into your, your facility, you're going to hand them a paper program, and you're going to also, you know, hand them an envelope right because you're going to collect. You're going to have a basket going around to collect funds later on in your service. Alright, so, and then there's preaching teaching singing meeting all of that typically occurs in an in person setting right and we're familiar with that. And now, when we talk about adding technology, there's this opportunity to expand on that right and one of the ways we do that is with digital and online access to gospel education and information via versatile mobile options so we've we've got this approach now these these tools now that help us to reach out and because people are mobile, maybe it's a trucker they're, you know, they're, you know, they their job has them away, but they can still connect and be a part of church ministry. So, we also have the advantage today with technology of eliminating excuses right. Okay, maybe it used to be that a person could say well I can't participate I can't engage I can't, you know, attend this event, because, you know, I'm, I'm bedridden maybe, or I'm disabled or you know whatever it may be they, I'm tired right. But nowadays, it doesn't matter right where you are, you can actually engage through cloud based collaboration tools. The cloud is a big, you know, kind of a big word, but basically it's just saying that through through the internet through methods of storage of uploading items maybe it's an event you had you can actually record save that in the cloud, and even those who couldn't really actually attend can actually go back and watch it later. And that's that's pretty powerful. Okay. All right, and then you can also increase your reach with proper guidance, qualified custom options. They're available for learning for worship for giving for service for members and supporters. Okay, so it doesn't matter who it is, you can actually reach out to them. If you use the right tools to do it. Okay, we're going to talk about that in a minute in terms of how this you know this differs, depending on who you are doesn't it's not one size fits all here when we talk about these things. I think at on some facts right now that have come about as we talk about this recent pandemic post cove it kind of revealed some things. And this is these are two very simple diagrams but the one on the left is basically giving you how you know, those, say, 18% of churches were online streaming in 2015. Now, before this, you had a few, maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of around the years 2000 and so forth, more churches were beginning to take advantage of being online and that type thing, but the number was still very small. And then around 2020 2019 2020, especially when Kobe hit it jumped, and you see now that there's about 88%, I'm sorry, 81% are so of churches that are not just streaming but they're also doing hybrid worship. And the difference between the two as we kind of alluded to earlier is that not only are they sharing what they're doing online live, but they're also catering to the people who are in person. And this takes a little bit of balance because you have to consider that what you do online is not necessarily the same thing you do in a personal setting, you know, the pastor has to be sure like if they're trying to say something specific to the to the membership, you know, you might not want to say that part online, you know, so your AV team has to be in sync with what you're doing and you also have to be aware of that, regardless of whether you're the pastor or not. What you're saying online may may may not come across the same everybody may not understand the nuances of your particular ministry and what you're doing. And then on this on the right, I have a diagram here that shows that in person. It's a 60 40 ratio right where today what you're finding is that more people are are virtual, then have come back to live worship services are live events. And this is not all just because necessarily of COVID, I think in a sense code reveals some things that may have already been beginning to occur. And you may have found you may have now found that there are some people who had challenges with maybe being in a live setting, and they are now able to participate. And it's very important that this be known, because those are people who are actually supporters well wishers members maybe, and they want to participate, and they need to be recognized and given an opportunity to do so in some way or form of fashion. I put a quote, a link there to a group that gave these numbers as well as many other numbers that they share. They've been doing some research for the past I think since 2012. They've been doing research on churches and technology and they have a lot of good good information around that. So, going hybrid and church ministry involves some steps, you know it's not, it's not as simple kind of as it's just going out and buying a computer right. This is, this is, this is something that is talked about by groups like tech soup right and in terms of strategy and so I wanted to give you sort of a basic, just a, you know, a basic idea of how to one of the ways to handle this. This doesn't one size doesn't fit all. Okay, and this what I'm talking about here even though I mentioned church ministry this works for nonprofits, doesn't matter what you're doing long as you're serving folks. These are some things that you want to consider. So it's not one size fits all there's a lot of other groups that have a lot of different methods that they may take you through. But generally I found that these are, these are the key pieces right here. So let's start with step one. The first thing you want to do is you want to pick a team. Okay. I talk about this in my book and I kind of say something about picking even a team of one it doesn't matter if it's one person it can be one very good committed dedicated person, and you can get a lot done. Okay, because of the way tech works today, you can actually really reach more people. So, consider hiring a support mentor somebody that just helps you this isn't necessarily we're not talking about a full time position or anything like that this would be sort of a one off somebody that you bring into the picture that person is helping you to understand tech to. Education is going on there. And, and also guidance, because of the way tech is changing and I'm going to kind of keep going and I'll hit some of that in a minute as to what I'm talking about. But mentors help teams peak faster teams excited to learn can foster the environment that I call tech and culture for ministry so I talk about this tech and tech and culture is referring to bringing tech into your culture not not so much trying to become technology specific or you know, the greatest at technology but you're bringing tech into the culture. The reason that this became a big thing for me with tech and culture is when I first started researching for my book, I realized that a lot of churches kind of had these feelings about tech and thought that, you know, like, like television and a lot of, you know, ministries felt like, you know, tech, the TV was the one I devil right, and they thought that technology was, you know, and when the internet came along it was, you know, and social media, those are demons, you know, it was it was always a night that was going on and so it took a while for churches to adopt so mindset is a big deal here and you have to get into the mindset of people that tech and culture can be a benefit so that's step one get a team. Step two is to review and document all current tech. All right, any tech that you have going on, you want to review that I'm going to say if I can do this. All right, so a precursor to strategic planning is looking inside use the pre made forms and collect an outline current tech and this is talking about any like I mentioned earlier tech suit, tech impact, you know, groups like this, there are other groups as well they have documentation that you can use you just download it, and you fill it out so this is something your team is doing right away they're basically filling this information on looking at what you have and planning. Alright, and that's a part of actually step three, where they're mapping out an at large tech strategy, okay for in person and virtual. All right, so, you know, at large, we're saying at large for a reason, and what I found is that most churches what has happened over time in the past years is that there's sort of a onesie to the approach to, to technology, you know, like okay this all right go out and buy it right, we need this okay that costs a little bit too much we'll do without that. And it's kind of haphazard like you know, whatever we want to try we'll try it if not we won't. But when you map out an at large strategy you're looking at everything everything related to tech, everything that could be related to tech, even if you don't know it could be. And you're, you're looking at it from two perspectives you're talking about in person, and you're talking about virtual today, you know, before it was always pretty much, you know, everything was related to the campus on site, and whatever we're doing there, and maybe a website, you know, but today you've got to think about a bigger picture on how can everything work together to help us accomplish whatever our mission and our goal is, what is it that we're trying to map out. That's what you're doing in step three you're comparing ministry purpose and vision to the new available tech that's out there. That's why you need a mentor because the mentor can help you to decide what is some of that new tech and what is what can can benefit what you're doing because they're looking at your goals and your vision. And then you're going to look at it with that big picture mindset. Alright, but at the same time you don't want to neglect on site operations okay. Yeah, and a lot of times, people like attend the church they don't realize all the things that's going that are going on in the background, you know, for a church administration there's a lot of things you know there's components and pieces and, you know, the software that's being used the hardware that's being used, and, and, and, and not only that today you've got even more things that connect with tech that your AC units in your church your your your camera system your surveillance system. All of these things can actually be tied together to give you a good solution that helps you to accomplish even more for what you're trying to do. Alright, the fourth step is to include all out, sorry include and inform all ministry stakeholders. This is so so critical. And, you know, I know from years of being a computer programmer 30 over 35 years of doing that. One of the things you don't want to do is is not inform stakeholders not include or engage people who are going to be using whatever tech you're going to put in place you want to engage them. You're considering let them give you their buy in let them talk, see what it is and and try to understand it so that they can see the benefits of how it's going to to help them out later on. All right. And then step five is any by the way if you don't do that, you're going to have some problems down the road. If you don't engage them. You know, I've seen a lot of things fail because people didn't know about the technology didn't understand how it would help. And to them it was tough and hard, and they they just kind of backed away from it. And when it could have benefited them. So number five is you want to customize a solution that leaves no one out and this can be done today with tech you can actually have a hybrid situation where people who are both on the on the ground and people who are virtual and remote can all work together and participate and be engaged, whether it's an event, whether it's a project or an activity, whatever it is, it can be done and a connected membership will engage and be more healthy. And these tools should definitely not lessen inclusion or fellowship you're never trying to leave people out it's very important that whatever you decide to use, you don't leave out people. Okay. Alright, so that's just sort of an outline there for going hybrid in your church ministry. So what is the role of connected technology and hybrid church ministry. And we said this earlier that's the buzzword connected technology. This is this is basically an integration that's happening today and tech tech is all about that but that keyword integration nowadays and when you look at. When you look at what's called API's which are, you know, application programmer interfaces that are being written, there's probably billions of them right. These are little programs that basically can run and connect with other programs and internet of things which basically involves things like you know you may have know it from things like Siri or your Google one device or you know, your, your nest thermostat in your home, whatever those are those are considered Internet of Things types of tools. And this connection of these items with API's and Internet of Things means that a lot of the things that are being developed today, even for for churches for nonprofits and the software that's being developed and tools, hardware tools and components. They all talk to each other, they can work together. And that's why it's so important to have a strategy because if you onesie to see it. You may miss out on how you could connect all these things together and be able to have a better solution to reach more people to fulfill more of your goals and your missions and your purpose and your passion right. This can happen across smart devices and via cloud based services, church leaders and members can communicate more with each other, and with communities they serve. Okay. They can share discuss ideals collaborate with each other to promote the loving neighbors as themselves which is something that is a key tenant of our Christian faith right. All right, so what are some benefits of technology for hybrid church, we're getting ready to wrap this up here. All right. Pastors and church leaders, and even our youth today, you know, can really benefit from using technology in ministry. Okay, let's look at some ways that that happens for church pastors and for leaders. They can use these tech tools to enhance their methods of sharing the gospel right how, how they bring forth their how they prepare for their message their messages and their lessons is enhanced by technology and tech tools, and how they share the gospel and approach training their disciples is improved and some of this you may have heard now because becoming more popular now in terms of being able to offer training that's off site where people can connect to systems, such as course Sarah think if it can other tools like that, where you can upload your your course work and even on your own websites you can actually upload the upload lessons sermons things like that, and people can actually still be taught and train. So that's a that's a huge benefit. It improves internal and external engagement. So church leaders and ministers of ministry areas can virtually touch members and the community more frequently. And this is this is something we see a lot now with social media right where you can actually engage with body cons, reactions, things like that, you can actually comments, even live chats, inclusion of people who are connected virtually using things like zoom like what we're using now where you can see the other person or you can at least hear the other person. One of the great things about things like this is they also have access, accessibility to people who may be more elderly may not have access to the technology, or feel comfortable with using it. And they can still connect by phone right they can there's phone numbers associated with these so they can dial in. And I know this because my mom doesn't you know she's able to connect and she's able to watch things on church services. She's able to actually connect, you know, on the phone for prayer calls and things of that nature so so these things work regardless of what you're doing you can actually use these tools and and have a greater reach. All right. All right, and then the last way it benefits church pastors and leaders and the youth is the youth themselves right they get engaged and one of the cool things about tech is that for most of the people who are younger, you know, younger than than baby boomers. They have a lot more information and knowledge and experience with using tech and engaging them and help letting them help and be a part of that team of technologists that's would be beneficial to you. Okay. All right. I also look at what virtual engagement means when we talk about the new normal, right. It is important right now okay because we post pandemic we see that this is happening that people are both worshiping on the go, so to speak right and worshiping on the go, and they are worshiping in person right. But is it the future so people are wondering like is this going to always go on it's going to be something that continues to happen. Well studies are still being done right and we were trying to put data on this, but most ministry technologies that I know are being honest about the pros and cons of hybrid church and worship and I've read several other books on this in terms of hybrid worship and this research that's being done in the studies that are being done by pastors and ministers and those who are in the ministry. And it's really being discovered that doctors need to pay close attention to the nuances of being on the ground present and remote present. Because you can't like, look at one and not pay attention to the other, you've got to really think about how are we impacting both of these settings. Very very important it's a critical that a healthy balance is struck to ensure the gospel message and other services are accessible to the entire ability. Okay, despite how it might involve. And it may evolve on there may be more changes right now we have two sides to this hybrid equation right there's the virtual and there's the. There's on the ground right there's the in person, but it very well could be that going forward as technology improves there may be some other pieces that kind of show their head and this whole image picture of hybrid worship and hybrid church. And the way to be aware of that is, we're going back to that team we're going back to that education we're going back to that that mentor, getting understanding getting some basic ground work you don't have to be a techie. I'm not trying to say that you don't have to become a techie even you don't have to be like, you know, just crazy about tech and so forth, but you, you, you still have to actually be aware of having awareness of what's going on. So let's wrap it up what's next in hybrid church and hybrid worship what what's what's coming up coming along here. I can't say everything that's happening I don't know all of the things that's going to happen some things are going to pop up and we're going to have to decide is this something we need to consider or not right, but there are some basic things that are going on. One is increased mobile and in person training options for discipleship. Okay, and leadership despite disruptors. We're finding that technology can help us to bypass some disruptors. And when it comes to our missions and our and our ministries, we can actually still get things done. If we actually are willing to take advantage of what tech has to offer. And if we're aware of what tech has to offer right. So, national and global on reach alongside a local congregational growth and fellowship so not only is is, you know, so just think about it for a second. You know there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands right of churches right and ministries. Most of them are working in their area they were in there in that when I say area I mean geographical area they're they're local. They're dealing with whatever they're doing right there and they're supporting their constituency in that area. But what tech does and what hybrid church and worship can do is it can actually allow you to become actually more global in your reach, which is, which is scary to some people right because they're thinking like oh god I don't know if I want my stuff all out there and I am my, my, my, my, my map says I'm not going that far my strategic plan says that's not where I'm trying to go. But it's a byproduct of being hybrid if you're going to post online if you're going to be on the website. If you're going to open up groups on Facebook and things of that nature. Then you will become global. Okay, automatically is automatic, it's going to happen. And that's a, that's that can be a big plus if there's an awareness about it. And if there's health care and planning what goes out to make sure that it is actually growing the congregation. And it's also increasing fellowship among those who are a part of your ministry and your missions. All right, another thing that's coming is hybrid church is more about the big picture of tech for operational efficiency and administration and I touched on this earlier, but it's a kind of a pet peeve of mine is a to me it's a big deal. And that a big picture approaches is considered. And the reason for this is because the way tech is going today. Everything works together everything is connected in some way or can be connected. And your ability to reach more people your ability to grow to grow and to expand is going to be not on what tech you choose and how you choose that tech. Okay, so you definitely want to look at a big picture when it comes to that and then hybrid worship is more about experience right that both in person and virtual attendees have with God, full attention to each being intentionally rich and this is referring to I mentioned this for church and hybrid worship. I understand everybody on here isn't necessarily concerned about church, but understand that if you're doing anything with hybridity, and you're going to be reaching people. You've got to consider both that in person and that virtual attendee. And when it comes to church, you want that experience to be the best for each of them, wherever they're sitting. Whether they're sitting in the building, or they're sitting in home at home, you want that experience to be rich for them and you want that richness to be intentional. Not just like we hope that they hear in this at home, but you want to make sure you're doing surveys you're doing online reactions and chats and communications and you've got somebody maybe in the box that the AV team that's checking with you to see how's it going. Thank you for connecting with us today or thank you for participating in that type thing. So that's just a small example. And then, finally, tech teams must be aware and always learning to introduce or deter right tech and ministry as best as possible. So all tech is not necessarily good for whatever your mission is and your purpose and what you're trying to accomplish. But you have to be aware and know if you need to accept this in or bring this in a face it in you know every tech all tech isn't to be taken right away it may be that you're just going to bring it in over a period of time. Okay, maybe you know that two years down the road we're going to face this in and you're getting ready for that. Okay, maybe two months three months whatever it is. And, or you may see this particular tech is not something we need right now and we're not going to approach that. Okay. All right, so that's basically all I had. I wanted to share this with you and encourage you to consider hybrid tech and consider that this is something that really is a reality today. And we've got to look at it from the standpoint that we have people that are both on site and people that are virtual and the experience that they have with what we're doing has to be consistent. It has to be intentional and and it has to be rewarding for both parties that are connected. So, you can reach out and find out more about what I'm doing at the first tech club calm. And I hope you learn something, something new in this brief presentation and I know there's some others that are on. And I'll switch back here to Rita if there's maybe some questions that people have. I'll be glad to answer those questions as well. That was fantastic, John. It really was I'm sitting here thinking. Wow, this is really good. There were some questions comments in the chat room but I would love for you all to come on and ask in person so if you could use the raise your hand option if you could stop sharing your screen so we can see all the faces. Sure thing. I can call on you. I did see a question from Rabbi Dina. I would love if you would unmute yourself and ask your question live. That would be great. Oh, sure. Thank you for this presentation. It was super interesting and helpful. I was just you sort of address this I asked this a little bit early on when you first presented some of the data but I was wondering if people are reporting a sense of inequity in their experience in a hybrid environment that folks who are in person are getting more, you know, quote unquote attention or they're having a better experience and those who are online are feeling a little bit left out or forgotten. You did, you know, speak about how important it is to make people feel integrated and together but just curious if you have any other thoughts on that. Yes, absolutely. This is a big deal and I want to say something too that I'm a techie. I've been around tech for quite a while. Very little phases me when new things come out. I'm pretty much like, okay, I got it, you know, because I'm a coder so I kind of know the background what's going on. I'm new to you know I'm learning in this in terms of how to apply this concept of hybridity to church worship right because you are absolutely correct. This is what has been found that the person who is sitting in the audience is getting more attention than the person who may be watching online, but the person who's watching online is very excited about what's going on and they want to participate they want to be engaged. And so I'm saying that I'm new because we've still got to develop ways that we improve that inclusivity. We've got to find ways that we make sure that people feel comfortable. They're at home that they are just as much a part of the worship experience as everyone else. And that is a challenge. That's a challenge because they are, you know, they're all the way over there they're not, they're not feeling the vibes that's going on in the room, you know, necessarily like like you are in the room, but, you know, the way we understand in terms of church and the gospel, we know the spirit of God is everywhere. He's moving in their experience where they are but we can't see it, you know, So we've got to do more things with as technology gets less expensive I'm sure there's going to be more things that come out. Like what zoom has with their zoom rooms, where there's opportunities to connect low cost cameras that can, you know, display what's going on with with other people. And in the in the live worship that's happening on site, you know, things like that, you know, so there's some things to still learn about this and how this is going to be done. But with what we have now we can engage people more. I'd say the key thing to do is at least have someone that is engaging with people when you're online have someone connecting that's answering their questions if they just pop in and say hi, somebody to them, you know, if, if they, um, um, if they jump on and they jump off and the analytics you can go in the background you can find out what their email address is, you can send them a note, you know, just, just, you can even respond later because it's the live YouTube broadcast and you go back later and see the note, respond to the notes in a just send a net a note to the person directly behind the scene a message and say, we appreciate that you attended our, our event, you know, we thank you for that, you know, it doesn't have to be like really major it can be something as simple as that and people feel engaged. Yeah, so you've got a good point there. So, John, I see your hand raised and then after that Lars, you can unmute yourself to ask your question thank you so much. Yes, I have a comment about the last one is that our church use of the camera to float around and the audience, when there's feedback from the audience, or when there's passing the piece and different things. The camera person needs to focus in on the whole congregation, not just the leader. A very good point, you know, I know right now what we have at our churches there's one camera that's in the rear, it faces forward so you only get the, the front view we're adding more cameras eventually, but that's how you do it yes you have if you've got your cameras where you have something up front you can pan your audience. The only thing I'd say for that is just as a note you probably already know this but just be be careful in terms of when you're sharing an audience, one of the things you want to do is have some type of disclaimer some method that you have a disclaimer for so that, especially when it's you when you when you're showing and it's young people, we're very cautious about what we just what we share on live when there's youth involved and that's just for the protection of the parent we honor the parents wishes in that in that sense. So you might want to kind of be careful there some events it might not matter depends on if it's a youth event you know then that's that's different but just think about those kinds of things but yeah that's that's a great point. I saw a note in it popped up and someone was asking about what's a good software to use and I kind of was hoping we get that question. There's plenty software out there, you're small to midsize church and you're looking for something that will help you to do your member management, things of that nature. I would, you know, you definitely want to do some research I wouldn't just go purchase something right away just because their sales. And it adds a slick and it's and there's a slash through the price and it looks like it's cheaper. I wouldn't just go do that I mean it's it's great I mean, most of them are good. I'll tell you that most of the software is good. The ones that I would probably recommend and I'm not, you know, I'm not being paid by these groups or anything like that I go to a lot of different conferences and I watch. I talk to these people and I look at their product and I see what it does. The two that I would probably that I like a lot that I think are on the right path. One is church tech. Church track, I'm sorry, online. Church track online that's one of the companies that have has a really nice product. And then there is rock, the rock CMS products. They have, they have a large suite of products they have they have another tool called realm that they recently started pushing a little bit more are a lm. And rock itself is a CMS for churches and it has lots of connective pieces, but they have a great support system and so on. And they, and one of the reasons I like them and I mentioned them is because they're doing something that I think, as we grow in this we're going to have to begin to do things that we haven't done before. So in a sense, I'm going to wax a little, a little theological here in a sense but in a sense we, we have as a, as a church we've, we've kind of shied away from, say, science, so to speak and I'm not getting, I'm going to get into my Scientology or anything I'm just just saying you get what I'm saying a minute. We kind of, you know, we're very slow when it comes to kind of anything scientific we're like, Oh, that's not Bible or whatever. But the point I'm making is data, right. So data analytics is a big deal right now. And people are using data to determine what works best. And it's, it's tough, though, but it's, it takes work it takes a little effort to actually go out there and search through the data and so on. So I mentioned rock because they have an analytics tool that is an add on that actually does really a really good job of giving you analytics, showing what's happening with your members who's connecting who's responding to emails who's clicking on this clicking on that so on and so forth. So my point in all of this is that over time, we're going to have to figure out how to take advantage of data, and the tools are getting better to help make that easy so that we don't have to really go through school right to go back college to figure out how to read, to read analytics sheet right do Google analytics right. But it's becoming simpler. Those are just two. There are plenty others. I'd be glad if you know if you want to send me a request or whatever I can show you some others and, you know, you can do a search pretty much and find just about all of the different things out there but you're going to have to look at your ministry, your goals, what you're trying to accomplish your vision, and see which one works best for you, because there's a lot of them out there and they're serving their on their those ministries well. So, thank you Lars I see and you're probably holding your camera so Lars if you want to unmute you some questions. Yes, quick sound check. Okay, great. So I'm Lars Eric home first names Lars Eric kind of like Joe Bob Swedish, and I'm the chair of Alameda County voluntary organizations active and disasters. We have a lot of faith based or community organizations on earth or in our membership. You know so this is a perfect opportunity because you know Alcovo and you've been virtual for the past year or more. And we're definitely committed to being hybrid for accessibility reasons, you know a lot of access and functional needs you know our people we serve. And I think I noticed this nice comment in the chat about making bidirectional at our meetings, and at other means I've been to often a lot of the magic happens before and after the meeting, just like it would be happening before and after the service. So I think my question is about bridging that or as they said in the chat, you know making sure things are bidirectional not just watching a lecture. What I just thought I have is like seeing up like a photo booth, or two with somebody's phones, you know I have like people in the room walk up is a hey people online how you do it, you know, but I'm not sure if breakout rooms, I mean, you know some people to have chats because often people will chat about stuff. You know, it's kind of like you know after a service to when you like shake hands with the minister or pastor after you're done and then go off and chat with some things over cups of tea. I think I'm kind of thinking about like I mean what sim, sim, sim life, you said you're techie and I'm an ex techie myself so I'm not sure if there's like a sim situation you would do or set up cameras. So I'm still pondering that, you know and I'm not expecting like an answer but if there's any tips that you or the people on this have had for making that kind of wonderful connection social connection social interactions. That's, that's what I was looking for thank you. Okay. Yeah, good, good. Oh that's a great that's a great idea. And I think like that's kind of what I was saying about us really discovering how to do some of the things that need to be done. That's a great simple approach I believe that would work, even with walking around with a camera. We did something. So postcode, I'm sorry pre COVID. We always did a sort of a moment and a lot of people do this in their churches where they they have a meeting Greek period right. Each team plays some music while people walk around and fellowship and hug each other and say we're glad to see you and that kind of thing right one of the greatest moments of the service to me right I love that part of the service. Um, but post COVID doing COVID we couldn't do that right we couldn't touch each other or anything. And so one of the things post COVID I think we can do is something like what you did because we did it during COVID. And when we were on zoom at the end of every service, we had what we call an after church chat. And it was a period of time that everybody turned their cameras on you know the the AV team would, you know, switch because we use the webinar part of zoom, we switch it to all the panelists, everybody would become panelists basically. We would all get on and, and you know, it would be all kinds of banter going on about what football team was playing and losing and all that. Of course, Clemson was waiting on anyway but we would we would discuss and have fun and joke about you know what teams were doing this and who did this and who cooked this this week and that type thing. And so I see that what you just said is something you could actually kind of figure out a way to do with, you know, in person, while in service to connect those people who may be offline, so that they can participate and we just haven't done it yet in terms of starting an after church chat. But it is something I've been thinking about as far as how to how to pull that off so I'm going to use what you just said there and figure out a way to do this. Oh and thank you for mentioning the after church chat because that's that's that's kind of a proof of concept and I'll show you all know how it goes. Thank you. Thanks for the question see this is how we learn from each other and engage. James, how are you. James. What's the C for Clarence Clarence. All right, have some other good friends named Clarence yes sir. Yeah, I just had a quick comment, talking about that interaction. I know you didn't talk about it here but using NDI is actually a quick way to even take those personal phones. You could actually connect them to your streaming platform and actually have that be able to switch to those even in the middle, while you're actually broadcasting. So NDI is something else, another tool that's out there. Now what is the NDI, is NDI an acronym for something because Network Device Integration. Okay, Network Device Integration. I think AB teams probably use that more. Well I use it even to link in with Pro Presenter so if like I said if I want to have even somebody walking around with a phone. And they're talking to people I could actually bring that in and not only presented in the sanctuary, but I could actually broadcast that during the service. So it provides that and you don't have to worry about cable or anything everything is done wirelessly. It allows people like said you don't have to go by extra cameras people can use their phones you just have to give their permission to link into your network. So that's something that's quick and easy in an expensive way. You have to figure out how to bring it in which is really five, six steps and it can be brought in, but it's quick and easy. And like said you don't have to worry about cabling anything in. You don't have to worry about a lot of programming. All you got to do is set a channel and just switch between the different ones. So as long as your devices can support them, you can do it. I saw another hand raised but it went away and then James if you can type in the chat the name of that program again, somebody asked the person they had the hand raised you can feel free to unmute your, your mic and ask your question if you have a question. I've been asking Clarence, I use NDI, and I'm wondering if he has latency problems and I'll track him offline because I know that's getting a little esoteric. We don't have very good internet and we have latency problems when using NDI although I must say it's a great tool. Quick answer for me is no. But we could we could talk about but I haven't had any latency problems. I just do a local NDI to one of our devices in the room to one of our computers. And so yeah I haven't had any latency problems with it. I mean the normal latency you're going to have over a broadcast, but otherwise no. Put your information in the chat room and I'm John also put your contact in chat in the chat room as well. That's why I say this is tech connection because this is how we connect and love from each other. So I see when has put a link in the chat room when you want to unmute yourself and and share some things you've been sharing the chat room. Sure, so I'm Wendram Browski my day job is I can you hear me. Hi, when oh hi sorry there's there's like some blank looks. My day job is I technology consulting companies on helping them deploy technology so I'm really familiar with the space but I've also been very connected to ministry organizations as well as like music dance arts types organization. So I'm really familiar with these challenges of how do you create an online experience and a hybrid experience has have been top of mind for the last few years. I put some ideas in the chat and I won't repeat it just for the sake of time but I would say my main tip is to really think about the online experience, not just as a static video recording of the guy giving a lecture, but to really think about how can the online experience be, you know, be interactive actually involving people, either asking them questions to reflect on personally or to ask them to reply in an input in some way, and also to really consider things like visual accessibility, especially for middle participants because they might not have a large computer screen and then keeping in mind when you present, you know, if you're presenting a slide or program or lyrics for the songs, what shows up on their small screen or their phone ends up being like microscopic and so these are some of the kind of like basics to keep in mind. So, and I'll put my contact in the chat if people want to keep in touch. Yeah, awesome and you can email me as well I'd like to learn more about you. So someone at Pat asked about the hotspots I'm going to put a link to the hotspot mobile beacon that we have at TechSoup is one of the products that we have that may be able to help you. Pat, this has been great. Lots of great information. John, the presentation was outstanding. Thank you. Lots of great information. I would like to see if there's any more questions before we close out or comments. Yeah, I'll look through the questions as well later the chat and if someone asked a question I'll try to make sure we get you an answer as well. If we didn't get it for you live. Awesome. Awesome. So there's a question in chat room with anybody has anybody use the mobile beacon. I know a lot of our libraries do use the mobile beacon. This is not the library webinar but I do know the library use a lot of people use the mobile beacon especially people who are overseas as well. So, I'm not sure you can click on that link I'm going to put the link here again for the monthly hotspot. It's a $15 admin fee and then you can have it so that's you know what I have so click on that link if you click on a link you will not leave this webinar it will just open up another screen so no more questions. I would love you all to put a one take away that you got from John today and of course a thank you. If I had the clapping sound I'll put the clapping sound right here. I was very, very good. Yeah, put your thank yous and comments in the chat for john so he'll know that you really enjoyed this webinar and john again thank you so much for being here. My email a simons at TechSoup I would love for you all to let me know what other topics you want to hear when you leave this webinar. Survey will come up and I would love to know what topics you want to hear. Thank you all. So much for being here. Have a great day and make sure you're taking care of yourselves okay. Bye bye.