 Okay, the magic word today is Maria Tomei. I thought it was transportation. Oh, transportation, okay. This is the Hawaii State of Clean Energy at 4 o'clock on every given Wednesday. And we're talking about developments in clean transportation. She has studied that for as long as I can remember. Yeah. And so, you know, kind of going back to where we had been talking about stuff, not only last week about the energy storage piece, but even back in May when we had a series of... Oh, yeah. I remember. We did a lot of investigation into that. Yeah. And why? Why do we care about, you know, like, aren't we really more concerned with developing clean energy at the generation level? You're talking about using energy at whatever energy kind of it is at the transportation level. Yes, we are interested. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. You know, you're talking about the energy space, and a very large part of our energy puzzle is the transportation piece. But it's tricky because we don't regulate the transportation part of our energy use quite the way we do our electricity. Yeah, right. It hasn't really been wrapped into the critical thinking. So I thought, you know, I thought we'd go back to an idea that we were talking about several years ago, actually, about the intersection of not just transportation and energy, but also land use. Because you really can't talk about transportation systems and energy efficient transportation without at least looking at land use a little bit. So I thought we should talk about where the overlaps are and what exactly they are and who's in charge of those pieces. You wanted an ambitious show. This is going to be an ambitious show. We've talked about energy and transportation with land use. We're not going to get into the details. It's really what is the intersection. Yeah, so I have a couple of slides to help us to structure our discussion and a couple of questions for you to help out. You can have questions for me. I can have questions for you. Okay, at the end. There we go. So if you want to look at the first slide, it just illustrates the transport, land use, and energy are not separate. They interact with each other. They affect each other. And so the next slide, we can talk about a little of that interaction. So where does transportation and land use overlap? What is that? So this is your quest. This is one of your three questions. Okay. What is that? What is that? How did you know my question? What is that? It's the land use part. Land use, I guess, is where you have people live, maybe? Where you put roads. Yeah. Okay. The next slide, infrastructure. Exactly. What are you building? You need to have a place for infrastructure. You're building stuff to allow transportation to occur. Okay. Yeah. So who's in charge of that? Okay. I think that's over my pay grade. You're talking about land use. Land use is a big area of government, you know, statutes and regulations and what have you in case law. Land use in Hawaii, an island state, huge and expensive. Very expensive. Yeah. So the next slide gives a hint of what I had in mind as some of the starting point. So the transportation and land use overlap in the infrastructure area is airports, highways, harbors, fuel and weight taxes. Those are things that the state creates, regulates, is responsible for. Okay. And then the county also, they do the roads. They do parking. That's land use, right? If it's a parking spot, that is designated for parking. You know, bus stops, bike lanes, lane markings. There's a lot of infrastructure that the county does in the cities. And then the state does more of the connections between the cities. Don't forget Zoning. Zoning? Okay. No, no. We're going to add stuff to this eventually. Zoning. This is the beginning of the discussion. There you go. Okay. Zoning. Would that be, that would be state and county? Would that be? Probably. That would be county. No. No. Okay. So, yeah. That would be on that list. All right. Okay. All right. The next, so let's move this on. Explain that. So the next one. Similar question. Transportation and energy overlap is an interesting area covering the things that use energy. Well, that's what we've been talking about, isn't it? You know, I've been talking about trying to make clean transportation. Right. And not use so much fossil fuel. Yeah. The flaw in all of that, which hasn't been resolved yet, is that when you drive your electric car, which has been charged by fossil fuel at the generator, you're still using fossil fuel. Okay. So it depends when you charge it and how you charge it. And what direction is your generation system going in? If you're buying a vehicle that's going to last 10, 15, maybe even more years. We've got some old cars, you know. Yeah, well. That is going to be using that type of fuel. Right? Then you're locked in. Yeah, to a certain extent. You're locked in, but if you change the generating system from fossil fuel to renewables and use that in the car, that's nirvana. And what happens? That's exactly what we want. And what happens if having vehicles or other uses of this potentially excess renewable energy at certain times of the day, if we're using that better, it might make the economics for those projects better. So there could be some synergies there. So the next slide, if you'd like to... Yeah, let's look at the next slide. Go ahead. So that's modes and vehicles, because it's more than just vehicles. It's also modes. We have an interesting... The next slide shows who's in charge, and then we talk about what are modes. Okay. So we've got the modes include bus, transit service, your operator licensing, taxi regulations, vehicle registration. I left off the specific listing of airplanes, which are a mode, and boats, which are a mode. Because generally speaking, those are not where most of the focus is. Yeah, so generally it does focus on the ground transportation. And then private. You know, this is a sector that it really does matter what the private sector is doing. Not only the people who are buying the vehicles or choosing the modes, but the folks who are building stuff and making stuff and selling it. Yeah. So this is all about vehicles. And modes. You know, buses, that's a mode. Bicycles are a mode. Walking is a mode. Okay. So if you make pedestrian friendly, bicycle friendly cities, you are doing a little mode shifting. Okay. Instead of getting into your car to have to drive to the grocery store. I'm with you. This is the main topic. But you know what? I get a reaction, Maria. We've been having this conversation for years. Yeah. But we got update on the numbers on the next slide. Tell me about how we've made some achievements. Okay. On the next slide, every couple of years I like to see how the... Oh, whoops. We lost one. Yeah. Don't forget this one. Okay. All right. So before we get to that, let's talk about this other question for Jay. Okay. What is this? Where do land use and energy intersect? What comes to mind when we're making decisions about... Where are you going to put a generator set? Yeah. Where are you going to put the transmission lines? Exactly. Fuel production. How are you going to deal with geothermal? Okay. Next slide. Yep. So it's not just fuels. If you're talking about growing liquid fuels, materials to make liquid fuels, that's one thing. But now with the electric vehicles becoming a more important part of the discussion, where you put your generation is also very important. So on the state side, you've got your fuel taxes. Again, your electricity production incentives and restrictions. You've got the land use and the zoning and whatnot there. Yeah. You've got incentives for certain types of vehicles or certain types of charging and then you've got your county land use and permitting and your private investment on sales. But when you are talking about land use... Yes. I mean, I have to throw this in. Transportation, a lot of money. Yep. Energy, billions. We import $6 billion in fossil fuel still today. Yep. Land use, Hawaii, you know, a limited land island state. Yep. That's big money. So you're saying that... So if you were going to change the size of those circles, you'd probably have land use being very complicated, very large. You bet. A lot of money, a lot of players. Everybody is involved. The awkward word being change. Yes. You want to change the use of land? Whoa. Yep. You're really talking about revolution here. Yep. Not revolution. Okay. Revolution. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got... So I actually had thought about that when we were working on the slides and it's like, well, you know, if we change it, it's like, ah, you know, this is just to discuss, you know, the fact that there is overlap. It's true. You can't really do one thing without impacting something else. Yeah. Kakaako was a carte blanche. Now we've made certain commitments in Kakaako. It was kind of a... It's supposed to be the place where we're going to redesign land use and occupancy in the state of Hawaii, query whether we did a good job. The next place will probably be Kalihi, you know, a few miles to the west. How are we going to do that? I mean, these are huge questions because they talk about lifestyle. Yep. They talk about the economy. They talk about people, you know, living in Hawaii in general. The future of the state is in land use. And so I think what I hear you saying is when you talk about land use and we really must talk about land use, we need to be talking about transportation and energy also. Yeah. So it's, you know, building your cities, right? So it's smart growth, smart rebuilding, smart constructions, smart design, smart communities. I'm getting a headache. Sorry. Okay. So I haven't checked with the most recent condos, especially the ones that are going to be integrated near rail or, you know, other mass transit or bikeways. Yeah. You need some place to put your bicycle or your little electric scooter or whatever it is. I don't know. Are they incorporating that? We should get somebody to talk about that on one of these shows. Well, some places they are. Yeah. But if you're thinking right, you would do that. Yeah. You'd make, I mean, even older buildings have a place for your bike or even your motorcycle. They ran out of space lots of times because they're so... But they need more space. You're right. And then you got to put it on the street too. And if you have retail or, you know, any kind of commercial building, you need to allow space for that. Yeah. Are we doing that? And if we're not doing that, can we force people to do that? Yeah. Like, for example, the electric vehicle rule about parking lots. We've essentially forced them to do that with electric vehicles. I'm not sure we've done it with bikes or walking paths and walking paths. Let's not diminish, let's not overlook the value, the importance of walking paths in our island state. Really important. And we have all but abandoned the idea. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do that. Yeah. It should be an initiative. Pardon me to go on. But I remember the Kaimuki bike lane with the shallows and all this. Yeah, yeah. They really haven't done it. And you can still ride in the gutter and fall down or get pushed off. It's really not friendly in Kaimuki to bikes. It's like, you know, if you lived in Kaimuki and have a terrible time actually riding your bike, you know, into the center of the city. Yeah. We have to get on that. We haven't done it. A lot of politicians have made a lot of smoke about that. Haven't done it. There's a lot of interesting stuff to talk about. Follow up on and get busy on it. I'm coming up with a list for a future time. This is the wish list. Yeah. Wish action list. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the next slide, if we can just take a quick look at that one. So we had been talking about modes. Okay. Now bicycles are not on here because this is a federal slide, but it shows inner city rail and airlines and transit rail and motorcycles and so forth. And this is just to illustrate what the different types of modes are in general. And this is a national average for the energy efficiency. And you can see that the light trucks are not as good as cars, of course, because of their fuel efficiency. They probably have generally the same number of passengers riding in them. But transit buses are down there. The reason, okay, that assumes a national average occupancy for transit buses is like 25% or something. It's very low. Hawaii has an excellent occupancy. So our transit bus number is much, much higher than the national average. So I don't know what it is. Why is it lower than cars in the first place? Cars are very inefficient. Because if you have a, well, okay. What I mean by that is you got one person sitting there, usually just one person. But that's the person who needs to go somewhere. He sits in traffic for hours. And so, well, the buses do too. And the thing is, in order to have a bus system that's available when people need it, they have to run the buses on a consistent schedule, even if nobody's riding on them. So if your average over the 24-hour period all year long is only 25%, that's not very good. Hawaii has an excellent ratio though. So it's much, much better on the buses. Just a footnote to all of that. I told you about my experience in Melbourne. Yeah, free, right? Free and beautiful. And they're fossil fuel, but they're on the way to electric. It's the first step. And it's more than just the vehicles, right? If you're using less energy per passenger mile in a bus, is that not better than using more energy in a car? Yeah. Right? I mean, these are complex strategies. Right. And we're talking about them, but I still feel it's sort of in a box. And government, members of government are going to have to think beyond their terms of office. They're going to have to think beyond their personal interests and the interests of the people around them. They're going to have to think long-term and they're going to have to think for the greater good and they're going to have to do these things. We have had a problem in actually achieving that. Well, yeah, it's definitely a long, complex and integrated process. We've been talking about this for a long time. Yeah, especially integration is particularly complicated because you might have the solution for one thing and if you're the only agency or the only person who's responsible for making that decision, you can make a decision and move ahead. But when what you do affects everybody else and could have varying impacts depending on the socioeconomic situation or the location, somebody who's in a location where it's not the optimal solution says, hey, that doesn't work for me. And then they stop supporting it in general. It's like one-stop shopping. We have to bring all of the decision process into the same room and lock the door until there's an answer. And even then, the people who weren't in there. So the free buses idea. So if you think back to the graphic that had, who's in charge of what on the modes piece, so that's at the county level, really. Yeah, DTS named Nochi. He's a very good guy and he's a professional in terms of transportation. And I had a conversation with Beth, it's very thick. But the problem is the reality is the city is evaluating these electric buses, two-section electric buses for $750,000 a pop. Well, we don't have the money for that, sorry. And we're not going to get there by waiting around to get the money. So we have to find some other strategy that works from various points of view. As you said, and it's so right, all of these things have to come on the table and they have to be a combined comprehensive strategy. And the people involved have to have a long view and they have to have the authority, the power, the money to do it. So what do we do now? Well, I think one of the things that helps, especially this type of program, is if we have the information and people are taking a bigger view. It's not just about a specific vehicle or a specific fuel type, but it is also about the land use and about the longer term view. And we could also talk about vehicles because there's a lot of great stuff happening there. You know, and I have a couple of slides that are fun on that later. But just understanding that these pieces can fit together and you can work together on the solution and we're coming up on a new year. So the New Year's Resolution is keep up to date on what's going on and when you make your decision about your vehicle or if you're looking at policy, if you have that responsibility, take a step back and say, how does this fit together? Maybe it's not perfect, but maybe it's moving in the right direction. Are you talking about me or are you talking about our leaders who we elected to office? Oh, everybody. Me too. You said something a minute ago I think it's worth dwelling on. You said we're coming up on a new year. Well, there's something else, Maria. We're coming up on a break too. Okay, we're going to have a break now. Okay, dokey. Aloha. I am Howard Wig. I am the proud host of Cold Green for Think Tecawaii. I appear every other Monday at three and I have really, really exciting guests on the exciting topic of energy efficiency. Hope to see you there. When I was growing up, I was among the one in six American kids who struggled with hunger and hungry mornings make tired days. Grumpy days. Kind of days. But with the power of breakfast, the kids in your neighborhood can think big and be more. When we're not hungry for breakfast, we're hungry for more. More ideas. More dreams. More fun. When kids aren't hungry for breakfast, they can be hungry for more. Go to hungeris.org and lend your time or your voice to make breakfast happen for kids in your neighborhood. I'm Howard Wig. I'm host on Think Tecawaii of Pacific Partnerships in Education. Every other Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m., I hope you'll join us as we explore the value, the accomplishments, and the challenges of education here in the Pacific Islands. Okay, totally before, the magic word is Maria Tomei. Transportation. Okay, she's talking about transportation. Maria Tomei, transportation. All the same. But then there's energy, land use, and climate change. Okay. Yeah, climate change wasn't a separate circle because it is all encompassing. How's that for an answer? There you go. It's a three-dimensional thing. It's a platform. It's climate change. Yeah. Okay, to add more slides. Yeah, so I did say that interesting things are happening in the vehicle area with fuels. And so if somebody does want to look into it, there are some good resources. So you've got not just your electricity or your gasoline-filled vehicles. You've still got your biodiesel and your ethanol. And you've got hydrogen out there and your natural gas and propane. And so every couple of years, I kind of wonder personally, gee, how are they doing? What are the manufacturers producing? And so I found a resource. And so if you go to the next slide. Wait, before we go to the next slide. Okay. But this tells me. Yeah. Is there too many of them? What just tells me is that it's nice to have diversity. Yeah. But there comes a point where you have diversity and you're fighting too many battles at the same time. Can we go back to that previous slide? You can narrow it down. So for example, biodiesel. Biodiesel is... You blend it with diesel. So your diesel vehicles are tend to be your buses and your larger vehicles. All right. I'll give you biodiesel. Yeah. Electricity certainly. Isn't ethanol over? That blends with gasoline. It's over. No, they're still there. Hydrogen, well, that's up and coming. Yeah. Natural gas for transportation. Yeah. So that's something that we don't really see much in Hawaii. There's something happening at the airport. They're comparing some vehicles at the airport on natural gas, because it is a thing on the mainland. You know, you've got your pipeline natural gas and they go ahead and fuel many vehicles with it. And if you look at the emissions, especially where you're trying to reduce your diesel particulate emissions, because the natural gas vehicles tend to be the buses and the trucks. So if you can really cut down on your emissions of the stuff that causes cancer, some people think that's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then propane. And then propane is similar to natural gas. And golf carts run out. You know, yeah. It's been used for many years. Maybe we should all be doing golf carts. Yeah. It's a compromise. I don't think they're actually on, they don't qualify as a vehicle because they're not licensed for use on the highway. When I get out of this though, it's you have to have a different kind of vehicle for each one of these fuels. Some of them. Right now. Some of them. With fossil fuel, it's all the same kind of vehicle because it all takes the same kind of fuel, mostly. Yeah. Well, yeah. Gasoline and diesel. So it's a few exceptions. Gasoline and diesel, pretty much. So if I have all these fuels, I have all these vehicles, then which one do I get? And the problem there, and I'll stop in a minute, is that people are going to be reluctant to actually get into the next generation of vehicles because they're going to say, I don't know which one to get. Too complicated. I'm going to wait till this all settles down. Yeah. When it settles down, then I'm going to buy the next generation of vehicles. So that's why you keep track of what is being produced. Okay. Yeah. So that's the next slide. Okay. All right. Moving along. Moving along. Just slide 14. There we go. So the model year 2018 Alternative Fuels and Vance Technology Vehicles List is maintained by the Alternative Fuels Data Center. You can kind of sort of see it down there at the bottom, the afdc.energy.gov. And so the model year 2018 is done already. So this is the final list. And the 2019 list will be slightly different. But you can kind of see that the biodiesel vehicles, now that's generally speaking, your larger trucks and whatnot, SUVs, some pickups, some vans, a couple of sedans. But basically what you're doing is having a diesel vehicle and just saying, yeah, I can use biodiesel, which we know diesel vehicles can use biodiesel. But by actually putting them on this list, they're trying to get positive attention for that. So the most popular one is the E85. That's the one with the ethanol in it. Yeah. The flexible fuel. Yeah. Flexible fuel. By far. By far. Yeah. And one of the things, the flexible fuel vehicles, that's basically going to run on gasoline, except in places where E85 vehicles are available. Because you were saying that it has to be different for every fuel. The flexible fuel vehicles, it doesn't. They can use gasoline or they can use E85, depending on what's available. They do some price shopping. And a lot of them are farm states that are very supportive of the corn industry. So that is one of those. Don't you think that some of these low, low number of vehicles are going to get chopped off unless they can make a dent in the market? What are they starting? Look at the hydrogen. That's got to. Right? And so that's at the beginning. I want to see them succeed. That's the beginning. You know, so you've got your Honda Clarity and your Toyota. Mariah. Mariah. Yes. So you've got your Toyota. That's on sale right now. Yeah. So, you know, you've got to start somewhere, right? So they're small when they start and then they expand. And one thing I wanted to mention is there were a bunch of hybrids on their hybrid electric vehicles. Yeah. That's a gasoline car. Okay, the flex-fueled vehicle could run on gasoline and it could bother some people, but at least it could run on an alternate fuel. The hybrid vehicles, if they're not plug-in hybrid, they can't run on anything but gasoline. That's true. You know, so they don't count. That's true. The original hybrid doesn't even plug in, does it? So it's a gasoline-powered vehicle with some advanced technology or what was advanced technology. I think they were included because it was kind of the beginning of getting electric technologies into vehicles. So it works so a lot of people have them. But it only runs on gasoline. And it contributed to fuel economy a little bit. So do you have a recommendation for people? If I say to you, Maria, I'm in a minute and a moment, I want to get the next generation of passenger vehicle. What should I do? It depends on what you're looking for in your next generation of vehicle. I want to come to the studio every day and then go home again. Oh, okay. So the electric vehicles, if you're interested, it seems to be in the electric angle of things. So how far is your home from the studio? How many miles of travel is that approximately? Say seven or eight. So you could do round trip with a vehicle that would run on electricity for 20 miles would be pretty much 100% electric because you'd never be using the gas. So if it was a plug-in hybrid, that's kind of similar to the battery electric, at least for your commuting needs. So you would be looking at those two. Plug-in hybrid. I plug in, I drive, and it pretty much takes me on electricity for 20 miles, which gets me home and I plug in again, and so I hardly ever use the gasoline engine on the plug-in hybrid. That would be, and of course, 100% battery, the battery electric vehicle. You like high-tech and cool, right? Of course. But the problem is that there's a federal tax credit on these cars. I'm not sure how long that's going to last. It could be that it's going away. Well, there was a limit. $7,500, yeah. That's a fair amount of change. Once an automaker had made enough vehicles, it cut off. That's right. If you make 250,000 vehicles, you don't get any more cars. But the other, and I don't know if they've actually reached that either. I don't think they have, which shows you something else. But the other thing is they used to be, I mean, I'm going back in my memory, they used to be a state tax credit. When you took the federal and the state together, it was pretty persuasive. Now the state tax credit came off. It ended, okay, and it doesn't exist anymore, and there's not a peep, not a little chirp, nothing about reinstating the state tax credit on electric vehicles. So if we really cared, don't you think our leadership would say, we're going to reinstate the state tax credit on electric? Wouldn't they say that in order to incentivize us and change our momentum? I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve and who you're trying to incentivize. Me. Right, okay. So you want some kind of a tax credit by going, there you go. I want somebody to tell me that it's okay. That the state is behind this. Going forward, I can assume that our state leadership will always give me a break and give me a pat on the shoulder for having an electric vehicle. I don't get that now. And so what happens if everybody has that incentive and the electric vehicle's percentage goes up and up and up, and then you've got more and more people invested and then you try to get rid of it? I guess at some point, I would have to agree with you. So let's see. At that point, we have, what, 6,500, 7,000 electric vehicles in the state out of a million cars. And it's not really showing any luster right now, I think. Well, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. But you want an incentive on your car, right? You said you haven't heard a peep on anybody. Yeah. So you're going to tweet about it? What's that? You're going to tweet about it? No. Sorry. I need my president to do all the tweeting. But you know, there is some kind of deal with, I think it's this year, with Nissan. Yeah. And the Nissan Leaf, I think you get a break from Nissan. Yeah. I think anything that was purchased after November 1, 2018, Nissan and several locations, we're going to provide fast DC charging for free. You could have, I think, one or two charging sessions for free every day. But it's, you know, certain locations. So if you bought a Nissan Leaf after November 1, 2018, there's your incentive. For two years, you get free fast charging if you need it and want it. You know, it might be easier just to plug it in at home if you're... It might be easier. And maybe that's where it's all going to. But if you needed it... You don't have enough range. Yeah. But if you needed it, there you go. So that's an incentive. Yeah. Now, if you were going to get a tax incentive. So let's say the federal incentive was available for the car you wanted. And let's say the state incentive was available. You'd still want to compare the range and the cost, right? Of course. Yeah. So there's a really cool website where actually they take the list of vehicles. And that's, I have another slide on that. Slide 15. And they'll show all the vehicles that were on their list. And they'll show the range in miles compared to the price. And that can help some people. That would really help, wouldn't it? Yeah. So you could pick. You know, if you are cost sensitive and you want more range or are willing to have less range, this type of data crunching is available at that website, the EV Raider. And then this goes up to the $50,000 level. And as we know, some of the electric vehicles are more than that. So they actually have another graph. The next slide. This is the high end now? Is up to 100K. So that's got a few more. You know, the stuff on the left kind of got squished. I'm not doing that. You're not doing that? That's a distancing. Oh, okay. You need the next one then. The next one goes up to 200K. Oh, really? Yeah. But it also shows me. Where'd you get this data? Right there. The EV Raider. Yeah. So, you know, this type of comparison, you know, can help people to figure out what it is that they are interested in. And the site had a bunch of other very interesting comparisons. Well, it shows you a lot of manufacturers are making these cars. Exactly. I'd be interested in a chart about how many they're selling though. I think that is actually available, I think. Yeah. The alternative data center had some. So, I mean, yeah, I think there are non-tax incentives that incentivize people. But the biggest one for electric cars is either long range or charging stations or both. And there was a piece in the paper, I think, last week about how Maui Electric was going to buy a network of charging stations that was owned by a private company. And that ought to be interesting to see. I mean, I like to see the utility get into this. But I also like to see a charging station at every gas station. Let's make them ubiquitous. That's an incentive, don't you think? No matter where you go, you're going to charge up. And these new batteries. And there's an article recently in one of the tech journals about all the new batteries that are coming online. So many batteries. And a lot of them are very fast. The one that comes to mind, we did a show about this last week, is graphene. We talked about graphene before. It's one atom thick of the kind of carbon substance. And it can do solar, convert energy to electricity. It can also hold a charge. And it's very fast. So one of these days, one of those guys, especially at the high end cars, they're going to have graphene batteries. And they'll take a charge immediately in minutes. And then you'll have great range because they'll be able to take a lot of charge. And then you won't worry so much about range anymore. Or I don't know about the cost. The cost might be better. It depends when you get it. Technologically, you'll be ahead of the game. And I'm happy to wait till then, Maria. OK. So for you, it's the price, maybe, unless the cool factor is just irresistible. Exactly. OK. You got it. There you go. It puts my words in my mouth. So the solar and the wind and the other as available resources, as they are on the grid, more extensive. Well, that would be perfect to have the renewables. And you have your controlled charging times. And so would free energy or low costs charging be part of the factor in your calculations? Yes, it would. But I think charging is low cost anyway. Even if you pay a lot for electricity, it's relatively speaking cheaper. And so electric cars are actually cheaper to operate until you get into switching the battery, which costs like $8,000 or $10,000. Switch the battery. This is a problem because batteries don't last that long. The new batteries, maybe with graphene or other substances they're experimenting with, would not have that problem. And maybe could last longer. Maybe even be cheaper even possible. So one of these days, we'll get somebody down here. They've got several hundred certified electric vehicle technicians. Oh, yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. And so maybe having some discussions with them about do you really have to change the batteries? To what extent and which manufacturers are including that as part of their vehicle leasing? Because there are many ways to handle that. And many of the batteries have many thousands of cycles before they appreciably lose capacity or need to be changed. Just to change things. Yeah. I don't know to what extent that is still uncertain. Can you find somebody? Let's do that. Let's have an electric vehicle mechanic or somebody who is familiar with the circuits and the current general. We should get a list of the frequently stated. It's not frequently asked questions because people don't ask the questions. They just say, this is what I'm concerned. And we could actually go down each of those items and say, well, how much of that is old and how much of that is current and how much of that is going to be addressed by either. Even a salesman would be good. Like from Tesla, I would really like to talk to him or her. So when do you need a car? I'm open to that. Cool. Yeah. Well, thank you for identifying my concerns and thank you for putting this all together in three circles. Yeah. Well, it is more than vehicles. You know, the vehicles can be a lot of fun. But it is important to also take a broader view at the transportation opportunities as well. Opportunities. It's our future together. Yeah. If we can get somebody down here to sell you your electric car. All right. Maria Tomei, transportation is the really secret word and I really have enjoyed this discussion. Thank you. Would you come back and do it again next week? Yeah. OK. Just put me on the spot. Very excellent. See you next Wednesday, Maria.