 All right, I'm excited today to be talking with Jillian Richardson and we're going to talk about how do we make friends as adults, because you know we go to school we make friends more naturally there but then out out of school it's like some of us have, have, you know, used Facebook or other ways to start to make some friends but it's still not as easy. And I'm really excited to kind of go into this very important topic today. Jillian welcome to the interview. Thank you so much for having me Georgia I appreciate it. Yeah, so let me just kind of share a little bit about your, your background and then we'll get into this conversation here so Jillian Richardson is a writer and connection coach, she has written the book called Unlonely Planet. It looks really cool by the way you should go check it out it's on Amazon, and teaches people how to connect more deeply with themselves and others. And then sends out a weekly newsletter of virtual events, which used to be in person events too is that right. Yeah, it used to be in person events in New York City and then a pandemic happened. So now they're virtual, they're virtual events and the email newsletter great names called the joy list. I'll put the link of course in the notes of the video, and Julian you also have regular courses, regular online courses now about connection skills and things like that and we're going to talk about your upcoming course later in this interviews I'm excited. So, let's kind of start with talking about, you know what we want to, you know, so many people I mean loneliness as you well know is is also an epidemic. And gosh especially, especially having gone through 2020 and now 2021 we, I think people you oftentimes well if they don't have a goal for kind of connection. It's a good idea to set one because our, our social life, our relationship life is one of the most foundational aspects of our mental and even physical health. So, maybe I'll start with this question is people tend to keep it to themselves when they feel lonely. Like who wants to say to the way hey everyone I'm lonely for a few people do but you have a different perspective on that maybe you can share with us yeah. Well, I think you really nailed it when you said that people don't like to share when they feel lonely. There's a certain shame to loneliness. And I wish that people could have the experience that I do where my whole newsletter and book is based off of me sharing with people that I've experienced a deep sense of loneliness in my life. So it's like I'm this walking loneliness confessional where people will just come up to me at parties, people I've never met will email me and share their own experiences of not feeling like they belong. And so to anyone who is feeling that way. I just want to let you know first of all that you're not alone. And chances are, there are a lot of people around you who are feeling the exact same way. And just to share some statistics on this, they're they're really bummer statistics I hate to say it, but the average American has one close friend, like one person that they would say they're really close to who is a friend. I'm in trouble then. But yeah, go ahead. And also that 75% of people in America who are adults are not satisfied with their friendships. So, we have one close friend, and most of us are not satisfied with that one friend. And so what does that say it says that actually most people in your life are probably yearning for a deeper sense of connection. Yeah, absolutely. And just to make that connection to health. I just statistic always. It floored me when I read it and I can see why but basically there's a connection between like loneliness and like physical health to like it's something like, it's like, it's like being lonely is something like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day or something like that to your health to your heart. Like it has that effect on heart health which is fascinating right like your physical heart is affected by your emotional heart, you know, obviously, but that's amazing that, you know, one one close friend. Now, our is that does that include like once significant other or no. Really good question. I, my understanding is outside of a romantic partner. Okay, yeah. And just to touch on what you said about the smoking. Yeah, it's true because when we don't feel connected like you said it puts stress on our physical body because that's kind of at the lower end of Maslow hierarchy of needs like we need to feel like we're protected by our tribe. It has an impact on early mortality, just as much as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, which is seven years off of your life. And that's how many years being an excessive drinker or being obese takes off of your life. And so just to think about in our health classes and stuff growing up at least for me, how much you talk about the importance of exercise and diet. And I remember a single conversation about how to, for example, foster intimacy in relationships. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let alone just how to make a friend. So let's let's get into that so, you know, I think it's cool. Obviously, you kind of have to work with somebody else or you sit next to somebody else and that kind of like friendship more naturally forms or you're in, you're in clubs or teens or whatever but outside of school now that we're, you know, maybe in other places that they are there might be some friendships that are a little bit more easily formed when you're working next to somebody. A lot of people who are watching this are self employed. Okay, so that means we're not working next to somebody anymore and we have to figure out how to make friends again. You know, yeah, any, you've written the whole book about, you know, about this kind of thing and you teach courses on it but so I know we can only touch a little bit about this but any tips on making friends as an adult. Yeah, the number one tip that I give people that I really feel like has the highest ROI, but can feel really vulnerable is to publicly share that you're looking to meet people. The only thing people in my friend group know me for is I constantly am posting online asking for help with things. And so for me, it doesn't feel that vulnerable anymore, and I know that it is. The template that I suggest for people is to say something along the lines of like maybe share this on Facebook. Hey, I live in your city, and I really want to meet more people who are into like meditation, mindfulness, entrepreneurship. Do you know anyone who fits that description. People love helping on the internet. And this is the easiest type of help because literally all they have to do is tag someone, and that's it. And soon, and this is especially helpful if you've moved to a new city. You're going to have a list of people who you can reach out to. And of course there's there's the vulnerability of actually reaching out. Because people soften when they see someone brave enough to admit, I'm looking to meet new people I'm looking to make new friends. Because as I said before, you're definitely not alone in that boat. Yeah, yeah, totally. So, I'm wondering, do you see a difference or what what, what's your view on virtual friendships versus in person, like being able to get together with somebody on a regular basis like you do you have any do you have any thoughts on that I'm just curious I know this, you know, maybe out of the blue question but I don't have any ideas since since so many people hang out hang out via zoom, for example. Yeah, there is nothing that can replace the attunement that we can feel in an in person connection like that experience of sitting across from someone on the couch and making contact and your bodies are facing each other and if it's a person you love just feeling that sense of trust and ease. That's really special. And virtual connections can offer some things that in person connections might not be able to. And this is a thing that I've had some people educate me on, because kind of most of my identities are very mainstream. cisgendered able bodied woman. And so any, any personal identity I want to connect with someone. There's a lot of people already around me. But for example, if I had a rare disease or if I'm a sexual virtual friendship so give me the opportunity to connect with people who can see me and understand me in a way that a lot of other people cannot. And so it's, I realize it's very easy to kind of downplay the power of a virtual friendship, when in reality for a lot of people, and even for me for example, I work for myself, I live alone. And so a virtual friendship that I have with someone who's also in your community, Sean Galinas, we talk almost every day. And it's, it feels like the equivalent of someone sitting next to me like their desk is next to me that I don't I wouldn't get otherwise. Yeah, completely, completely agree with that. Yeah, it's like the internet now allows people who maybe used to think they're weird or different from the people around them to realize oh my God there's an entire Facebook group of you know 20,000 people who are weird like me or whatever you know it's like no it's lots of lots of ways now. And, and, and also to connect on deeper values to connect on interests and it's like, not necessarily on, you know, genetic identity or whatever you know it's like you can connect on so many different ways so many different kinds of relationships with people. So, let's say, you know you have some acquaintances or connections people maybe you even see on a regular basis how do we, how do we then deepen that connection any kind of tip to share there. Yeah, this is another tip that I give also just for anyone who kind of the initial impulse might be I need new friends. And to think about the people who are already in your life, you might just be able to go deeper with. And I noticed especially with people I work with, they'll have this narrative that someone in their life doesn't want to get to know them better, or they already have enough friends or like oh they're too cool for me. I'll question that you're a person worth knowing. And this person who you actually just, you don't really want to make a new friend you just want to get to know this person better and you're afraid, just to, to notice that because we often don't need people in our lives at all. And then in order to deepen that relationship. I invite people to think about the questions that you want to be asked the questions that you would be excited to have a conversation about. You're like, man, I wish people would ask me about this thing. You're, you're in full right to start that conversation. And so a question could sound like what's something that you were obsessed with as a little kid, or what's something about you that people often misunderstand. It's a really great way to permission this type of question asking because it might seem like out of character for you are kind of out of the blue. There are a ton of really popular card games that are all questions. And my favorite is called we're not really strangers, and it kind of goes by level of vulnerability. You start a kind of a more surface, and you go deeper and deeper. And it's a really great way to get to know one person, or a small group of people, like a great game for a family. I've done it with friends before and we've learned so many people I've lived with for multiple years, we think we know everything about each other. You don't everyone's got these fun little secret layers that you've just got to ask the right question to unlock it. That's so cool. And maybe I'll, I'll find that and link it to below as well as we can check it out. And one of the key skills, of course, in deepening a relationship is, you know, we've talked about asking questions, but also listening, listening to the other. And we, that's also something that few of us are ever taught or trained a train. Anything you want to say about, about listening and kind of how do we improve that. Yes. So listening and loneliness, I feel like have a lot in common and that people can feel shame when they have the one they feel lonely. And people can also feel the sense of shame of not knowing how to be a better listener. I think a lot of people have an awareness that they can bring the conversation back to themselves a lot. And they get nervous. I can do this when I get nervous. I just talk about myself. Oh, my God. One second, my camera. Oh yeah the camera I know this is out of zoom. The camera is learning how to listen. There we go. You. You know, I feel like we need to be trained in how to be a better listener, just like as an adult sometimes we need some help with making friends. It's totally normal. This is a thing I think about all the time. And I still really actively have to work on my listening skills, because I get so excited to share my stories, my opinions, my perspectives. And it took a six month coach certification program, which is exclusively about the art of listening to people for it to really hit home. That's a lot of time to be trained and listening. And so one core takeaway that I got from that certification was pausing in conversation. It's something that is so rare, especially if you lean on the more anxious side, and you kind of want to talk to fill the space. I found that if someone is sharing something that is kind of vulnerable or they're exploring a new idea to just pause for three seconds, take one or two long breaths before you respond. The chances are in that pause, it will give them space to have a new idea and share it. And that's usually when I've found the most interesting things come up. And it is so hard to learn to create that pause. I really appreciate you saying that, you know, especially those of us who lean on the more anxious side or, yeah, shy side or something like that. It's like, okay, we need to, we need to, we don't want any awkwardness. So you got to, there's a silence. Can't be silenced. You got to keep the conversation going. So I appreciate that. And if you practice that, you can be known for it's okay, you know, George pauses when we're talking and that's okay just just long enough where it's like allows me a little bit of space right to process and to continue sharing or to allow the next unfolding of it. One of the key aspects of relationships, friendships, etc. is sort of the give and take, right. And something that I know a lot of people I've heard of as this idea of being a people pleaser. And so maybe talk about that. I'm really curious to know, especially since it's kind of related to your upcoming course, which we'll talk about soon. But yeah, how do we, what is what what does what is people pleasing how do we know we are doing it. And what how does that affect the relationship I guess maybe the friendship. Yeah, so this topic, I feel like I kind of hit a gold mine I was just pulling my audience per one of your techniques on what they wanted to learn about and I realized kind of between the lines of what everyone was saying that people were saying things like, I feel like I changed my personality depending on who I'm around, and I never want to ask for what I want because I'm afraid of hurting someone's feelings. Or if someone gives me a choice between two things I always say whatever you want, even though I actually do have a preference, but I just want to seem easy going. So people pleasing is when you put others needs before your own. And often it seems like and I have this experience. I do this because I want there to just be ease in our relationship, and I want to feel connected to the other person. And so kind of by not making demands or asking for things it'll feel easier. That's kind of the idea that's the logic behind it. What it really is, is that when we put our needs on the back burner, slowly resentment starts to build up the other person. And the inner dialogue kind of sounds like don't they know that really I want this. And don't they understand that actually this is what I would like. And people aren't mind readers. If you tell them that you don't care people are going to believe you. You're left with the complete opposite of what you wanted, which is a disconnected relationship. So I shared a video on Instagram this week and it's one of the most popular videos I've shared it seems like it's really resonated with people of this just flip of thinking that actually when you start a conversation with someone sharing what you need sharing some sort of conflict to start by saying, I'm sharing this with you because I want to feel more connected to you. And that's really why you should be bringing up a conflict. If you're sharing a conflict because you want to shame or blame someone. Maybe you just do that in your journal, that's not going to be a productive conversation. And just kind of that adjustment seems to have helped a lot of people feel less scared of bringing something up, because the fear of courses if I share what I need. This person's going to leave. They're not going to like me anymore. And really you're doing this with the short term discomfort for the long term reward of having more connection authenticity in your relationship. That's such a wonderful way of reframing it because yeah it's like it's the relationship isn't just, you know, 100% or even 70% what they want. That's not a relationship. It's getting closer to dictatorship, right. But it's like okay when it when it's more 5050 ones closer to that, then, and then how do you get there, especially if those of us who want to make make always make the other person happy it's like no no no you got to. It's like, and sometimes I think we forget that the other person wants to meet our needs and wishes they understood us better and if we don't communicate that often enough they don't just like you said, like we want to we actually want our friends and our relationships to be mind readers like we all wish for that like we'll come on you know me you know me you should know this. But it's like well they know us because we share, they know us because we reveal, you know it's like reveal our needs and so. Yeah, so this this this spectrum, you know, people pleasing conflict, you know, etc. It's like, it's so interesting and I think a lot of us watching this a lot of people watching this right now. Well I tend to draw. I probably tend to draw more people pleasing tending people to my audience because you know, people who want to more meaning and more caring and generosity etc. So I want you to tell us about your upcoming course because I think it's really, it's really important. Yes, the name of this course again inspired by one of your workshops to make it as specific as possible. So this is conflict resolution for people pleasers. So if you are someone who doesn't want to rock the boat because you're afraid the person's going to leave. But other people's means before your own. And also if you don't know what your own needs are in the first place. This is a course for you. So it's three weeks. We're getting into how to calm your body down. We're getting into kind of reframing what conflict even means, and how to just communicate directly and with love, because the fear that I hear a lot is, I don't want to be mean. And if you have a people pleasing tendency, my guess is that your concept of what mean is is kind of skewed. And actually, there's more room for bluntness and directness and you might think so we're going to get scripts we're going to get tools. And for your audience, I want to offer 50% off, because I love this community. It's been so helpful for me, like talking about virtual friendships, like people who want to run a business in a way that's authentic and heart centered and loving. It's been a big struggle for me to find people like that. And I feel like I've been kind of trying to grow my business in an inauthentic way. So, having this community has been such a blessing for me. Wow, thank you so much for that's such a great deal. I think what you already offered was already a already good value and now you're taking it up to, it's like, well, easy decision so I will be sure to put the link in the notes below. There's probably a coupon code below as well. But, Jillian, I'm so grateful that you're doing this work and and actually maybe you could mention what are what are some of the other, maybe mention a course or two that you've already taught or what's coming up, just give us a sense of what kind of the catalog is going to be. Yeah. So, a course that I also have on my website that you can still purchase and get all the recordings is called Better Boundaries. So how to set boundaries in your life. And also, some courses that are going to be coming up, how to make friendships as an adult listening skills, self love, body love, all this stuff is coming up. Cool and what kind of sort of opportunity to connect. Do you kind of facilitate or allow for students in your courses just curious how you do especially in the course for example on adult friendships are like how do you how does that work. Yeah, so the courses. It will be very similar to the style that you run where there's, it's a recording and there's interaction in the chat interaction in a resource document and then also in a Facebook group. So, for people who want to share more, replying and interacting with each other will have a Facebook group as well. Oh, that's, that's great. That's really great. I usually only do that for like, like my most expensive courses so it's very generous that you're allowing you're allowing this. Well, Jillian, thank you so much for for this offer from my audience, be sure to, you know, those of you watching this be sure to check it out. And, yeah, just looking and you have all put any other social media links in there so I know obviously Instagram is a place where you're really active so folks go check out what Jillian's content looks like in those places. Jillian any parting words of encouragement, as we step into this new year in terms of building better connections. I feel I just say to give yourselves grace. If you're feeling super out of it and disconnected and depressed and just low. Given the context that we are in that is so normal. The ways that we typically connect with people have been taken away from us. I just know like your, your animal body is missing a vital nutrient and so you're going to be a little off. It's not forever. It just be kind to yourself. Yeah, yeah, thank you that's, that's beautiful advice and with. Thank you so much Jillian.