 We're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. It's 10 o'clock clock for Community Matters. And we're talking to the Better Business Bureau today, namely their executive in one out of seven states in which they operate. And that's Roseanne Freitas. And somebody who manages some issues, maybe almost all issues. It's Kelsey Gardape. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you. So we live in the time of COVID. And as we were discussing before the show, COVID has changed everything. And certainly COVID has changed business. And for that matter, the Better Business Bureau. Here we are trying to reopen. And you guys have to be central in the recovery of an economy which is not easy to recover. So what's going on, Roseanne? How are you doing? How is our business sector doing? Thank you so much, Jay, for having us here. We really appreciate it. It's been rough. I don't think any of us can say anything other than that. It has been very hard on all of our businesses. So as soon as this hit, we most definitely started to hear from them asking, what can they do? They needed resources. So we jumped in at that point and started pulling together experts and putting on twice-weekly webinars, reaching out to our accredited businesses and seeing what they needed. So we brought in experts from all seven states, even Hawaii, especially when we're going through that PPP loan and the idle loans, because really that right there was the biggest issue. They needed to get that cash flow coming in so that they could at least keep their businesses moving forward. But then again, as that started to go, we all started to see that there were other things attached to those loans and they really just needed to understand what those meant. So we went through a lot of that. So now we're kind of three months into this. Our counterparts in the other six states have most definitely, most of them have opened up, not all of them. Washington and Oregon still have some limitations, but their businesses are recovering faster than we are here in Hawaii. And I think we all know a lot of that goes back to our tourism. And because we're not open for tourists right now, that part of our economy here in Hawaii isn't moving. We still have some great, some things that are positive. Our construction is still going and certain industries are moving forward. But I think for us here in Hawaii, the big recovery is when tourism can open up. Yeah. I want to add a thought, see what you think. They take a restaurant or any consumer type of business, the neighborhood store, what have you. If they say one day that they are reopening and say 15 or 20% of the business that used to come in comes in, they're in trouble. That's not going to work. A little business will not help. They got to have business in the general, approximately the same or close to it if they're going to survive. And that's so because they have fixed expenses that are based on their earlier level of business. And it's also so because government assistants are not, but they've lost money in the interim big time. And so they're already teetotottering. So you're dealing with a business community, which is shaky at best, even if there's some reopening going on. Am I right? That's correct. So right now, businesses are having to what we call pivot. And that's going to be probably the big thing moving forward is how can you pivot your industry and your business model with these restrictions. Restaurants work on such small margins anyway. So any hit to it is problematic. So now how can they move forward? And that's really just thinking different. I know the takeout business has been big for some of them. They've really moved forward with that. So that part's been really good. So, but at the same time, how do they pivot? And that's really where they're looking for guidance. And that's kind of where we're stepping in right now. We will be bringing to Hawaii an expert to help us with small business and how they can pivot. What can you do for them? I mean, the fact is they're in deep kimchi and they've already taken a hit. Their owners are suffering. Their banks are wondering. Their federal money and other support is going to run out here in a few weeks. Maybe less than that. And they're looking down over a cliff. How can you help them? Right now, it's a tough cliff. They're really going to have to sit down. And this is where we can all have this dialogue, sit down and go through what they have, what they need to stay open. They have to make these hard decisions. Can they stay open? And communication is going to be the key because they're going to have to work that out with their landlords. They're going to have to talk with the banks. For some of them, it financially won't make sense to reopen. And we've seen that here in our local market. We've seen every week restaurants closing because it's such a tight margin and they cannot come back, not the way it is right now. So, what we can do at this point is to help those who wish to stay in recognize they have to pivot and give them help them with those resources to make that pivot so that they can still have a profitable business, but not based on their old business model. So, are you talking about counseling them, advising them? Yeah, we've been bringing in experts. I mean, myself, I'm not the expert on that, but we do have experts that we've been bringing into our webinars. And we've been working on content that we're pushing out to our businesses just to help get them that information and to help connect them with these people. So, like I said, we're going to be doing one here in Hawaii shortly and we're pretty excited. We're bringing a firm that actually helped us at the Better Business Bureau when we did a major innovation a year and a half ago, which really set us up. We had no idea this was coming, but really set us in a good position. So, we're talking with them and they really want to help out the Hawaii market as well. So, are you going to do that as a webinar? Yes, we're going to be reaching out to our accredited businesses and asking them to participate and to see if this is something they would like to do. I think that's great because they can share their lessons. It's that notion which sometimes is elusive about how we're all in this together. They can actually get on that webinar and talk to each other and give each other ideas. And your experts can give them ideas and it'll be a saving grace for a lot of them. It really does make a difference. Kelsey, I think we've been talking about ordinary profit businesses, whether they're corporations or proprietorships or partnerships in the economy, in the mix and matrix of our economy. But one big thing and I can tell you because we're non-profit is all the non-profit organizations, which actually are very important in a time of distress like this because they feed people, they take care of people who are not otherwise able to take care of them themselves. The government can't help them. For many of the recipients of beneficiaries of these non-profits, it's life and death, really life and death. Now, you're in that part of the Better Business Bureau that deals with these. Can you talk about your programs now and how they're being stressed by COVID? Absolutely. So, as a trade review manager, I work with 503 charities throughout Hawaii and the Pacific Northwest to help accredit them and at the same time, I work to educate donors on making wise giving decisions. So, our accreditation process for charities evaluates them on our 20 standards for charity accountability, which is a reminder to both charities and donors that when looking at a charity to support, it's not just about looking at their finances and seeing their programs ratio. That in itself is not an effective measurement of effectiveness, accountability, or ethics. Our standards really cover governance and oversight provided by the board, disclosures that are made to the public, both on their website and in their financial statements and other documents. And then there is an evaluation of financials so that when a donor gives to a charity, they have complete understanding of who they're giving that money to, how that money should be spent, and whether they ultimately can trust that charity to be a good steward of that donation or not. And our programs we've seen, you know, charities are really hurting during this time because as you've expressed already, in times of need, charities are who we go to, but at the same time, they can't fundraise the way that they typically have. We've seen organizations like Make-A-Lish, Hawaii have to completely pivot and restructure their fundraising events for the year. And so instead of hosting an in-person gala, they had an online talent show. And the landscape of fundraising has completely changed in the last couple years, and it's likely, or a couple months, and it's likely that it won't go back to the way that it was. So we've seen an increase in inquiries and increase in charities wanting to provide assurance to their donors that they are worthy of their trust by disclosing two letter business bureau, which entails completing a questionnaire. Times are tough, and as both the business end have figured out, the charity side of things is also recognizing that trust matters now, and they come to BBB to be able to show that trust to their community. Well, you know, it's about bankruptcy, and I could ask you both about that. You have a lot of these companies, I mean, you know, the bankruptcy lawyers are expecting a tidal wave of bankruptcies. There have already been hundreds and hundreds of bankruptcies in Hawaii. And as the money runs out, as these businesses, especially small businesses, but some large ones too, that, you know, they're going to look for pivots right into the bankruptcy court, where they can sort of excuse themselves and maybe reorganize themselves under Chapter 11 and come back in a pivoted way. That would be part of, you know, their possible solutions. But I wonder, you know, what you see so far, Rosanne, in terms of perfectly fine businesses having to go bankrupt and leaving their creditors, including their customers in the lurch. So unfortunately, we know that's going to happen. And like you said, we see it here a lot with the bankruptcy. So what we're telling businesses to do, if they're in this position, the key for them is going to be communication. Because the more they can communicate with everybody around what's happening, we all know what's happening, explain, be as transparent as they can, this is where I'm at, and this is what I can do. Sometimes it may not be the answer everybody wants to hear, but I think if you're honest and transparent, you still maintain at least the trust at this point. If you're the consumer and you've purchased a product, and now you don't know if you're going to get it or not. So there's a couple of things you want to do, and it also goes back to communication. So what we recommend is that they reach out to the business first, whether that's a phone call, ask to talk to the owner and just see what's happening. If you're not able to do that, look on their website, on their social media, see if they have any information about who to contact, or actually go to the physical store and see if there's a sign. From there, if they haven't filed for bankruptcy yet, they are still on the hook for the product and service and getting that to you. However, if they file for bankruptcy, then that changes everything. So if they have filed for bankruptcy, you need to find that out. So then you can contact their bankruptcy attorney or your own attorney to reach out for that. Once we get into attorneys, it goes beyond my scope. But the key that hopefully is not to go to the attorneys, but to have that honest dialogue. I think most businesses really want to do the right thing. They just may not be in a position right now. Well, there's one ameliorating factor. I think it's an ameliorating factor. And that is, you know, everybody's buying things on the web these days. And when you buy on the web, you're giving your credit card. And if you don't get the goods, then you can call your credit card company and say, I never got the goods. I'm contesting this charge. And I think that will help, if not save a lot of people. Am I right? That's true. That's why a lot, especially with anything that's purchased online, we always recommend use a credit card. Don't use anything else. Don't use your debit card. Even though you can dispute a debit card, it can take quite a while and the money is gone. So we always say use a credit card because if for some reason you don't get that service, you have every right to dispute the charge. So it's only problematic if you've paid maybe with a check or a debit card, then you really need to be concerned. Yeah, and you talk about, you know, the merchant should be transparent and tell everybody everything, or at least give them a status report on problems. But that may depress business. If I got a call from my merchant and he said, you know, I'm having a lot of trouble here. My first reaction for survival, for self-protection would be, I'm not going to do business with him. So the way the merchant expresses that to the customer is really important. He's got to convince that customer that he's in good faith, that it's worth confidence, it's worth trust, and that we are all in this together. We have to cooperate kind of thing. If he doesn't do that, he runs the risk of not alienating, but losing the confidence of that customer. Yes, and good faith, you said it right there. It really is about the good faith. And part of that is, yes, telling the whole story, but also not necessarily saying, hey, I'm following bankruptcy, nothing you can do. This is where we're at. We're looking to figure out what we can do. We want to work with everybody. I think that actually goes a long way. It's not when everything is perfect. It's when things hit the wall, and how does the business react? And I think they will earn the trust when they say, yeah, we're hurting because everybody is. But this is what we're going to try to do. And we're going to try to come out of this. And we're trying, you know, we're doing our best effort. They're being as transparent, and they're giving it a good faith effort. And that really is what you want in the business. Yeah. So it's really important how it's presented. So Kelsey, you know, we can run a parallel on the nonprofits here, because, you know, nonprofits go bankrupt too. Not in the traditional sense, but they do run out of gas. Can you talk about it? Yeah. And so one of the things that's required of charities when they develop, and they form their bylaws and their articles of incorporation is to have a plan for if they do end up needing to close up. So it's written in their documents what will happen with their assets, should they dissolve, whether they choose to merge with another organization or just close up all together. And luckily, I haven't seen too much of that quite yet. But in a recent study that was done, I believe by nonprofit quarterly, there's a significant number of charities that worry that they'll be able to survive the next several months. So it's something that I think we're hitting that peak. And we'll start to see that come in. But it is something that donors need to be aware of. And when they're looking to give donations, look to see the organization's website, check out their social media. And if they have any questions about the organization or their stability, if they really seem to have any concerns about the future of the organization, ask questions. And charities, for the most part, are really, really concerned with sharing the information that their donors need to know. So if a donor has a question about the charity, and it's a factor for making that decision in giving a donation, charities will usually provide that information. So you can help them. You can talk about the certification. Can you tell me what that would be like? So I would like to give X amount of dollars to a charity that I have given to before, that I like, that I think it's doing good work in helping people, an important part of the fabric of our community. But I have some reservation now in the time of COVID. And I say to myself, I think I'll quote Kelsey. I want to know more about the viability of this particular charity. I don't want to throw my money away. Tell me about that conversation. Great. So if we are trying to credit a charity, and if a donor wants the charity to become accredited, it's the conversation that they could have with the charity. And in order for that to happen with us, and they would just need to complete our questionnaire and submit some supporting documentation, which is really similar to what they would provide to any other charity monitor or for a lot of grant applications. So it's a basic questionnaire with information on board involvement, certain policies, and then just copies of their budget, their financial documents, annual reports, and a few copies of fundraising materials from the last year. And it's a really easy way, and they have to fill it out once every two years. So it's an easy way for them to provide information, to have BBB, a mutual third party, develop a report that confirms to the donors, you know, that they meet certain standards. And it also gives the charity, even if they don't meet all of our standards, then it still gives the opportunity for them to explain to donors, yeah, you're right, you don't have this, but this is what we're doing to fix it. This is, these are the steps that we're taking. And on the back end of that, I don't just evaluate the charities and say, all right, well, of our 20 standards, you only meet 15 of them, I'll work with your organization. And they have time from the time that they submit the questionnaire to the time that that report is posted on their website. They've got close to a month to respond and take actions and BBB provides services to help them meet those standards. And it's all completely free. So if a charity wants to become accredited to be able to show their donors that they're worthy of their trust, the accreditation itself, plus the services to get them to that point are absolutely free to them. So it's a great benefit. To reaccredit in a time of distress like this. I mean, if a given charity was accredited back in December, that may not help me now in June, because things have changed. And so how do I know that the accreditation still applies? I mean, as a point of, a point of confidence. You know, that's a really great question. So a lot of times when things happen, you know, such as COVID, it's not going to really reflect on any financial statements until the end of whatever fiscal year they're in, following through to the next year. But so if the charity was accredited in December, and they're having any, you know, concerns, they can reach out to Better Business Bureau and we can make some updates to the report. But really, it's not going to go until their next financial statements are available. If financial stability is one of the, one of the issues. But we're not just looking to see that the charity, you know, ended the year in the black. It's more about long term trends. And when we do look at finances, we're looking at, you know, their programs ratio, so that they're spending at least a minimum of 65% of their expenses on, on their programs, making sure that they don't spend too much on their fundraising. So it shouldn't cost more than 33 cents to, or 35 cents to raise a dollar. And then that they have unrestricted net assets that don't outweigh, like too far the margin, their total expenses. Yeah. Well, you always want to know that, you know, the donor always wants to know. But you know, Roseanne, you and I were talking about the interesting phenomenon of you want to pay money to an organization, use a credit card, because then if you don't get the goods, this is in the case of the sale of goods or services, you can, you can presumably get your money back through the credit card company. What about a charity, Roseanne? If I give X dollars to a nonprofit, and three days later the nonprofit closes its doors, they don't necessarily have to file bankruptcy per se, they just closed their doors. And they're not functioning anymore. And my money didn't go anywhere. I'm ticked off, but I'm not sure that I can get my money back from the credit card company that way, because I didn't buy any goods or services. I gave a good faith, altruistic, you know, charitable contribution. I can still get my deduction and my tax return, but you know, I can't get it back the same way. Do you agree? Well, you can still dispute the transaction, because we see that all the time, especially when people make donations to fraudulent charities that really are not charities, but they pretended to be some charity. So you can still dispute the transaction. And of course, once it goes to the credit card for the dispute, it goes then back to the charity and then it starts that process. So that I think you would have a good case, especially if they're not running, if they're not doing anything. Yeah, you know, that takes us to the whole world of scams, which, you know, we've looked at computer hacking type scans. As a matter of fact, we have a show later today to update on that. But you guys, you know, that's your traditional bread and butter area, isn't it? Scams. And you want to take complaints from people who think they've been scammed by businesses, whether certified or not. And my question is, has there been a noticeable uptick in scams here in the time of COVID? Yes. So what we do know, because we're the trust experts. So that's why we highlight practices that aren't trustworthy. And what we do know is from the psychology of it, is the way a scam works is they work on our weakness. They find something that installs some sort of emotion. So we know it's emotion based. I don't think of we can think of anything more emotionally based than this COVID-19. We're scared financially. We're scared physically. There's so much about it. So scammers, you think they take a break, but they don't, they're not going to give us a break. They're going to take advantage of the situation and they're going to play to each one of those spheres. And so we at the Better Business Bureau, we'd like to let you know exactly what we're seeing in the marketplace. And then we also want to remind you that there are legitimately great businesses out there and you need to use one of them. We have some slides, maybe you could describe them. I'm looking at one now about the number of scams. Can you talk about it? Okay. So the one I have now should be the one you guys should be seeing is the FTC one. And so the Federal Trade Commission talked about what scams were out there in the public on a national basis. And then you could break it down by state. So this is what I pulled up the information for the state of Hawaii. And so number one was identity theft. I think you're going to see that continue to increase especially with the unemployment fraud that's going on out there where people are filing unemployment claims and using someone else's name as social security number. So that really sets them up for identity theft. I think we'll see more of that. So that was number one in Hawaii. Number two was fraud. Fraud includes online shopping, which we know the masks, all of the PPE gear, travel vacations, text messages, always be careful of those, health care. A lot of products are being sold as preventative for COVID-19. And there's nothing on the market right now that can actually say that. And then internet information services. So after we do fraud, we go into this other category. What makes up other category is credit cards. Somebody stole your credit card information. The same with your banking savings loans information, your mortgages, credit bureaus, and the TV and cable company. And then the last one that we don't forget the electric company. There have been scams on the electric company. That's true. There has been scams on the electric company. And then the last one is the do not call registry. And that one's not as high. But the big ones, what we're seeing really around the COVID-19 at the beginning was the PPE, the masks, the hand sanitizers and all of that. We saw price scouting also at the same time. So we saw that going. But as this has continued, we're seeing the unemployment claims. And then I think as the state of Hawaii opens up, I think we'll see more fraudulent activity around vacations and even around contact testing to make sure where everybody is at. And that is the way they like to get personal information. So we always need to have our guard up. And we always need to use trustworthy businesses. And don't just give your information to somebody who calls you or texts you. What can you do? You can tell them they've been scammed. What can you do after that? So if you've been scammed and you think you've had practice with a bad business, you can reach out to bbb.org scam tracker. Also, you can report that to the Federal Trade Commission at ftc.gov. And note, there's a difference between what we call a scam and bad business. A scam is really just a fraudulent. They really aren't in business. They're just there to steal your money and run away. Bad business practice or practice maybe you don't agree with. That's a different process. And that goes into our complaints section, which we have a slide for the complaints one. So just to give you guys an idea of what we have seen from in three months, we've had a 280% increase in this data coming to us from either complaints or reviews. And the most complained about industry was the travel agencies, followed by airlines and vacation rentals. Then fourth and fifth was online retailers and ticket sales. I don't think that's really going to come as a surprise as the whole industry had to cancel. And then people's, what was their cancellation policies? And what it really highlighted was that people hadn't read the terms of agreement, which a lot of times means you won't get your money back, but you can save it for a later date. So it just really highlighted, again, how important it is to always read the terms of agreement in dealing with any industry. Yeah. Well, you know, at the time of crisis, people are losing money and they try to lay the loss off on someone else. That's what they try to do. So Kelsey, what about the non-profit area? There must be scams going on with phony charities and phony people getting on the phone and trying to make your heart, make you feel bad for someone. And as a result, you wind up giving money to the wrong people. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as with any other tragedy or emergency event, in times of COVID, we have seen that there has been an increase in your charity scans out there. And again, we just go back to our advice to donors to not feel the need to make a quick decision to give a donation. Any legitimate charity will tell you what their cause is. So they'll also tell you exactly what they're going to do with their donation. And a legitimate charity is not going to urge you to give a donation on the spot. They'll be more than happy to accept your donation a week from now. Or to give you the time to do your research and make sure that you're dealing with the right organization. A lot of times we've seen copycat names or names that are very similar to well-known charities but slightly different. Or if you find a fraudulent website, the logo might look similar to something that you recognize, but it's just a knock-off. So again, we just encourage donors to do their research and make sure that they know who they're donating to. And don't feel the need to donate to the first organization that reaches out to you. You know, it's really pernicious that somebody does this sort of thing. Not only are they stealing the money, but they're discouraging people from making charitable contributions which are needed in a time of crisis. I have a question. I'll address it to you, Rosanne. This comes in from one of our viewers. Does Hawaii law provide for businesses to be compensated for lost money due to government orders to shut down non-essential businesses? Is that something you can deal with? Actually, that's not a question I can answer. I can find out, but I don't know Hawaii State law that well that I would feel comfortable answering that right now. Okay. Let me go to this because we're almost out of time. As you guys are, you're both, you know, zooming from home. Are you doing business at home? Is that what the business Bureau was doing now? What's your internal policy on that and how are you coping with COVID? Well, I would like to say it's, we started I think a week earlier than everybody else. We were prepped that take your computer's home. You might be working from home and we got the call over the weekend that we were and because of processes that we had put in place and changes that have been made, we did miss a beat. We had changed our phone system. We had changed everybody had either a laptop or some sort of device that they could work on from home and we had 130 employees just move from home. Yeah, there are a few kinks here and there, but immediately went to zoom meetings, which we've done so many and we're able to still stay part of our team. I think we did an amazing job and so we actually were really productive. So when it came time to have us go back to the office, obviously that's going to be done on different phases depending on the state. They came out with a policy and they just said, you know, if you are not comfortable coming back into the office, you can work remotely until January of 2021 and I as an employee really appreciate that they really are concerned about our safety and also our mental state during this that we feel safe as well. So each employee gets to make that decision if they want to go back to the office or if they want to work remotely. That's very reasonable business decision, I think. So in January, it's a reasonable date to work against, although I will know that when we get to January, we're going to have to really confirm that or see what's going on at the time. So my last question to you guys, and I'll start with you, Kelsey, how do you see this unfolding from here to January and beyond? We've had a number of bankruptcies, you're affected, you're the better business bureau, you want to see business work, you want to see everything, you know, work in business, you want to see confidence in business, very important for reopening. So you have bankruptcies, you have scams, you must have an increase in the number of inquiries you're getting, how do you see this unfolding as we go forward? I mean, as we go forward, nobody has a magic eight ball, no one really knows exactly where we're headed. But I think in all of this, everyone is really reassured themselves in the value of trust. And so about our business bureau, as you've mentioned, we have seen an increase in inquiries and businesses contacting us. We have an opportunity to help them show their customers or their donors that they are open and they're trustworthy. And so for us, we're in a good position, but it also gives us the opportunity to listen to them. We're asking questions, we're asking businesses and nonprofits, what do you need? What resources do you need? And we are pivoting ourselves, just as we're encouraging them to do, we're pivoting to be able to provide them those resources so that they can reopen and that they can stay open and they have access to some resources they wouldn't otherwise have had. I mean, with through our webinar series, they've, we've had some incredible speakers who've been able to answer questions on the spot. This is a great challenge. It's a great challenge for you guys, because, you know, the business community is under a crisis. And you, like everybody else, you have to pivot also. So one minute left, that's all, Rosanne. Can you talk about how you are pivoting or how you will pivot, how this is going to change better business bureau for the long term? Thanks. We will. Obviously, our mission has always been about trust and in the marketplace. And I think if anything, it really highlighted how important that mission really is. So we will continue the same mission. But yeah, it will have to be different now. It's going to be much more interactive with our businesses and helping them recover, helping listening obviously is a big part of what we do and hearing what they need and reaching out, providing that education. We will continue to do that from the business side and really promote that trust and how to get them to that level. But on the same side, we'll still be there for our consumers and helping educate them because now more than ever, their dollar matters. And it really matters that they pick a company that they can trust or a charity. Either one, they just need to be able to trust them. So our mission has gotten bigger. And we've actually pivoted because now we can work remotely. We didn't miss the beat. We were working long hours and we were passionate about what we do because these are people. These are real people. They're just not businesses. They're real people on the other end of the phone for us. Thank you, Roseanne. Roseanne Freitas, Better Business Bureau. Kelsey Gardipe, Better Business Bureau. Thank you so much, you guys. It's great to have you on the show. Wish you well in your efforts to help reopen our business community. Aloha.