 Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Back to Quok Talk. So for those of you who don't know me, I'm Crystal and this is a relaunch of my show Quok Talk. This time it's going to be kind of a limited series with a focus on the culture of women and we're going to unpack that as we go along. But today I'm very, very happy to be having the co-initiators including myself in the creation of this international women's group at the EWCPA and that's that UH Manoa because we're all grad students too. So there are a lot of layers we're going to unpack but we're going to unpack it with the concept and the focus of feminine hygiene as in how do cultural backgrounds and perspectives influence the way we view and approach our bodies and how important is it to talk about something like this that seems taboo but actually everybody has to deal with it. It's actually very ordinary issues that we bring to the table and hope you'll join us in this discussion of the culture of feminine hygiene. So at this point let me introduce my two lovely guests, co-initiators. So we've got next to me is Haley. Haley is a grad student. You want to tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll move. Yeah, so I am a master's student at UH Manoa in the Department of Second Language Studies and my research focus is on feminist language pedagogy. Okay. So yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. And next is Som. Thank you. I'm Som. I'm also a grad student at UH Manoa in public administration and my research focus is in domestic violence in Mongolia. So you said that. So Som is from Mongolia and Haley, you spend time in Paris and you are from? Yes, I'm originally from the Chicago area but I lived for four years in the south of France. Okay. So we do indeed have an international group here and how do you feel, let's talk about the international women's group first. How did this all come about? Yeah. Well, I know her for me. So we're part of the international women's group. It's the EWCPA which is East West Center, Participants Association because we all live at East West Center and I have always been interested in women's issues. Obviously, it's something that I study and I'm very invested in. But I was thinking about what could I do and that there really wasn't a physical space for me to invest in because I think in our daily lives we sort of inhibit these micro level spaces. So I don't know where you live, where your classroom, where you go to school, your bathroom, I don't know, right? When you go to the grocery store. But these are all affected by these sort of macro level institutions that we live in. So social, educational, economic institutions, when I was thinking about it, you know, most of these macro level institutions are male dominated. And I think that has a real trickle down effect and if we want to subvert that in any way we need to have female dominated spaces in our micro level spaces in our life in order to affect that. And so I wanted to create a space within East West Center and within our community where that could happen. Okay, cool. A space is important. So Sam, what is your take on this important space? Yeah, to me it was all about the creating this space where we feel comfortable just on sharing, you know, regardless of genders. So our focus with this group is we don't want to be exclusive on one gender, so we're trying to make it as inclusive as possible. And just the idea of having the space where everyone feels comfortable. That's what really drove me to initiate this project with you girls. So this is a very recently launched organization, but we hope to provide a platform to talk about things that seems sensitive and inappropriate to talk about but are actually really important. So we start with this concept of feminine hygiene because every female has to deal with it, every female has a vagina. I don't know why that's a taboo word too, like people get all cringy when we talk about that. And everybody, every woman has, well not everybody, most women, we have menstruation, we have cycles and we have to deal with it. So we're bringing on the table these issues of products that actually are a big part of our life. Huge part. And you know, mine, me, Sherry, some like the other day we're meeting, you're like asking me for a tampon during that time because these are like part of our lives. So let's talk about that. How did you all get educated or how did you learn about the ways of dealing with feminine hygiene when you were growing up? Well, I was born and raised in Mongolia, so it was a communist society and turned into, we had a democracy just in 1990. So if I think back on my story, it was actually my dad who educated me. So yeah, when I was 12, first period, it was my dad, he was telling me all about it, he was welcoming me to adult life. So it was both the contribution of my both parents, male and female. So to me I think that really made me feel comfortable to talk openly about it, to men too. But there's a lot of influence from society, growing up in a private school in Mongolia, also going to a public school in Mongolia. There's a lot of stereotyping where, I'll talk about an example where you have to get checked, there's a health education process in public schools in Mongolia where girls and boys are separated where they have to, they can't talk about biology when they're together back in 2000 or late 1990s. So that kind of stereotyped me leads to stigma. You know what I mean? So there's not only family education, there's also society influence, where as a young girl you tend to observe that and start feeling sensitive about talking openly about your period, you tend to start buying tampons or pads and you hide it, you know? I still see a lot of those around. So there's a lot of environment influence where we feel like we have to hide it, that we can't talk about it openly. Do you feel that way in the West, Haley? In my personal experience a little, but my experience is yeah, I'm lucky because So I have a wonderful supportive family and my mom is really the one who educated me about feminine hygiene primarily and it was because she had a really negative experience actually. Yeah, I remember her telling me that when she first got her period, she thought she was dying because she didn't really get any formal education from anyone and she didn't know what was happening. It wasn't in the school system to know at least about what happened. Yeah, and I don't think, you know, her and her mom talked about it too much and so she really made sure to talk to me and to my sister about it and so then when I've got my period, I felt like I was sort of prepared and I was ready, but there was still this sort of taboo feeling around needing to sort of keep it secret and hide it, right? So like wrapping up my tampon or my pads and toilet paper, making sure my brothers don't see it. So I think, you know, I was actually, I think it was actually my mom, but she was doing it unconsciously. She's just, you know, when she's showing me how to deal with these products, make sure you wrap it up, you know, no one sees it in the trash can, but I'm lucky too. Is that a cultural thing, Sarpur? Yeah, I don't know. Because do you wrap tampons and pads in Mongolia? Because in China what I've heard and I think I hope that it's been a little bit modernized is that people in the villages would throw their pads out like on the rooftops and they'd be like disgusting displays of things like that and it was because it's culturally it was just not something that you were taught to do and, you know, that's a practice and it's not trying to be inappropriate or disgusting, it's just something that they weren't taught. Yeah. Yeah, again, I think that's a practice of how, yeah, where do you, where do you learn about these things? If your parents or sisters or brothers can't teach you that, how do you learn? And is there an inappropriate way to learn? Because like if, you know, sex is all on the internet, right? Everyone learns through porn, unfortunately. Like these younger people who are, their knowledge of sexuality and sexual practices is so misguided because of these online sources. But for spending hygiene, there's not really that movement going on. People don't like posts like, hey guys, this is the, in fact, Song told me this new site if you want to talk about that new site about these authentic tampons. Oh yeah, yeah, I found out about Quora. So it's initiated by female social entrepreneur and they're actually creating this platform where you have access to getting tampons and pads delivered to your home. And they're also, they're a non-profit, they're trying to also empower 300 million women out there who just simply don't have access. And about 25 million girls, they just miss school because they're under a period they can't afford. So this whole social enterprise, it's investing into educating girls all around the world, specifically in a lot of Central American countries and throughout India. It was just, it just made me think about this in a different way because we're very selective on what's important and what's not important. And it seems like... This is something hidden. Yes, exactly. But it's highly related to health education. It's related to poverty. It's not only about empowerment, it's our social problem too and why do we keep hiding it? Why do we keep putting it under the balance? And nobody talks about it. We were talking about refugees, immigrants, people who are underprivileged or impoverished or homeless. I mean, if they don't have the means to access products, feminine hygiene products, how do they deal with it? We take for granted. Okay, yeah, let me borrow a tampon from my friend. But what about people who don't have access? I mean, we think about that and what it means. It's kind of an important understated issue that's kind of swept under the rug, isn't it? Yeah, it's not like titled as a social issue, but it is if you think about it. And because we have the privilege, we don't really think about what's going on around, you know? So there's statistically 300 million women who just simply don't have the access. So that makes you see it from a different perspective. And it's important that we talk about it openly and it was really inspiring to see such organizations existing, taking it and talking about it, you know? Yeah, and it's a really nice website, so you should check it out. On the aspect of the importance of different cultural aspects, I want to bring in the concept of why it's taboo. Why, you know, Sam, you mentioned it before. There's a taboo of a lot of Asian countries, I don't know about others, of not using tampons as opposed to sanitary pads, because the concept of inserting something is not appropriate. But when the Western perspective would be, that's the cleanly way to do it, right? People would argue that the pads are the older band-aids, which sounds really disgusting. But the tampons were something that were inappropriate. What do you want to elaborate on that? Yeah, so to our culture, we would hear myths, a lot of misconception that if you use tampons, it's going to destroy the virginity, for instance. Have you heard of it before, Kelly? I've heard you talk about it. Yeah, it's a way that young girls can think, oh, so this means this is a no to tampons all along, you know? So there's marketing going on there, too, behind this. Yeah, sure. And I guess there's, and I heard this from a lot of my international girlfriends, too, there's the same differences that actually make you select different types of products based on these misconceptions and myths. And it's all about the access now. But times changed. Well, in my culture, in my country, now there's access. There's a lot of access to different types of products. So would you say most modern girls use tampons more than pads now, or it's still kind of fixated in the old traditional way of using pads? I think my practice changed when I went to school in Connecticut. So as a 16-year-old girl, being introduced to tampons there, because all my girlfriends use tampons. So who taught you to use pads? I was the only one using pads. This is very personal to ask people whether you use pads or tampons. But is it assumed that most people use tampons? I think I was a late starter on tampons, though, because it actually kind of scared me. I was sort of scared by the idea of using a tampon. But that was in the cultural taboo thing for you. No, and so it was my mom who eventually taught me and showed me how to use tampons. But most of my girlfriends were using tampons, right? And that's why I wanted to. And there was this idea that they were cleaner and they were easier. But I don't know if I necessarily agree. I've sort of gone away from tampons now. I don't like them as much. But then see, Crystal, in China you said it's the other way around. Tampons are not considered clean. Well, then again, how do we define them? Now I think the more modern girls will use tampons more than pads. And I guess it depends on your lifestyle too, right? Right. You know, if you're an athlete, obviously you would probably have to use a tampon. Yeah. And for me, the reason why I actually made the shift, it was interesting. It was because, so when I was living in France and I was teaching at a school there, they didn't have any garbage cans in the bathroom. Oh, that's inconvenient. There were no garbage cans in the bathroom. And I asked about it. Well, so yeah, if I was wearing a tampon, I'd have to roll it up and put it in my backpack. And then you forget about it. Yeah, and so I could find the garbage can. And so then I just started wearing pads again because I could leave it in longer. It sounds gross, right? But I didn't have to worry about it. We're like, a tampon, you have to take it out when it's full. You have to take it out. But that's education too, because a lot of people don't know that. Like, I might have to remind my daughter, because she used tampons and she can leave it in for a long time. Like, that is not healthy. Right. And there are problems with that. And you have to read. You have to clean yourself up every few hours. So these like little kind of practicalities and things that we don't think about discussing, but they affect our bodies. And how we view our bodies is based on what we use to treat our bodies. So we're going to take a small break. Hold that thought about this tampon pad kind of debate and what you read into that in your cultural perspective of how you view this is really quite interesting. So we'll be back. So don't go away. Aloha. I want to invite all of you to talk story with John Wahee every other Monday here at Think Tech Hawaii. And we have special guests like Professor Colin Moore from the University of Hawaii who joins us from time to time to talk about the political happenings in this state. Please join us every other Monday. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock live from Think Tech Hawaii. And on our show, we talk about taking your health back. And what does that mean? It means mind, body and soul. Anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about, whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means, let's take healthy back. Aloha. Welcome back to Clock Talk. I'm Crystal here with my two wonderful guests from the International Women's Group at EWCPA, Haley and Psalm. Now we were talking about the myths of the tampons and how culturally and even just in terms of how we perceive things is in fact quite sensitive because it's the idea of inserting something that may seem inappropriate depending on, and it's like it's an awkward thing. You have to kind of figure out how to do it right. Because you know this is another technical thing. If you don't insert it right, if you've ever had it where you don't insert it all the way and it feels like something's like... Or it hurts. Yeah. You can't peel it off. Yeah. So this is a detail. But speaking of insertion, I think we need to also talk about the taboos of sexual practices while women menstruate. Because again, I don't know if it's cultural or maybe it's a personal thing. How do you girls feel about that sex during the period? That's like, whoa, we can't be talking about this. Yeah. Well, I think my visions, my idea of sex during period has changed over the years with the people that I've been with. So originally I thought no way, no one ever talked about that. So I was lucky because my parents did talk to me about menstruation and feminine hygiene, but nobody ever talked about sex in menstruation. That's not something we see anywhere. And so I just had this idea like, oh, that's disgusting. No guy's going to want to be with me. No guy's going to want to touch me when I'm menstruating. And it's so wrong. That's not true. Well, because of hormones elevated, there's something right here. I don't know what every guy I've ever been with. If I've been on my period and I'm just like, oh, I don't know. You know, I'm on my period. He's like, I don't care. And it's been fine. And yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's us. It's us that we think this is. We have it's not okay. But it's natural. It's something natural. I mean, and I don't know. Most guys seem to understand that and don't seem to mind too much. Yeah. How much do you think that guys that you know understand how the woman's body really works? See, I think that would help, though, having sex during your period. We also understand a little bit. Right, right. I think it depends on their experiences probably with the women in their lives. I know. So I have two brothers. And my sister and I, we try to talk with our brothers about it. Like we don't hide it, right? When we're on our periods, we're like, oh man, I have cramps. That's good. And like, you know, like I feel like this and I'm bleeding. And so I think they understand. I think they really, they get it a lot better because they've had the chance to talk with us. And that's why it's so important that we talk about these topics, right? Yeah. Because how can men understand if we don't tell them about it? Right, right. And it is important for them to understand. So how do like parents even educate their sons about this process on a woman's body? Yeah. It's kind of interesting. Tell them you're a mom. Yeah. You have a son. I still have time. Yeah. Talk to them exactly. I still have time. But yeah, let's, you know, when I, when I talk with my male friends, it seems like majority, they don't really talk about. Yeah. They don't really get to education from their mothers. You know, I have to say, because I've never talked about it to my boys either. To my boys, yeah. In fact, I'm going to try tonight to ask them what they think or know about this situation. Yeah, but I think when my time comes, when my son's older, I think I would definitely jump in and talk openly about this. And to respect that, yeah. Right. You know what I think the biggest taboo is for men is they think that, oh, is that time of the month? Okay. So if she's grumpy or she's a little bit crazy, stay away. I hate that. I hate it when there's that exception. Me too. Yeah. You know, maybe one thing would be in schools. So I don't know how you guys learned. But when we had like education, I remember when I was like in fifth and sixth grade about like puberty and stuff, they always separated the guys. Yeah, they still do, right? They still do. I don't know. Like what if it was done together? Yeah. Good point. You're into pedagogy. I mean, this is like... Like why not? And I don't know maybe, I don't know if it would make kids uncomfortable, but I mean, like, why are they uncomfortable, right? Like, why in the first place are they uncomfortable learning about the other sex and learning about what happens. And why is it shunned? Like, I mean, again, going back to the cultural thing, back in the old days, the red tent, the concept of how women in Israel had to go into this tent and kind of spend their time there when they're menstruating. But you think about it, it might have stemmed from something very practical, that they didn't have sanitary napkins and they had to stay put and they couldn't do it at work. I don't know. I mean, what are your... Well, when we talk about misconception, I found it interesting that, you know, the one best thing about having an international women's group is that you get to interact with a lot of people from different cultures. And I learned that misconceptions aren't always negative. It was also about embracing this biology that we have, this nature. And then there's a lot of misconceptions that's myths, I would say, myths that when women are menstruating, there are things like, oh, you can't stay in the kitchen because your taste buds changed. Hey, don't drink lemonade. Which culture? In Poland. In Poland? Yes. In Poland, there's a myth that, oh, you're going to kill your partner if you have sex while you're menstruating. Oh, in Poland. And in the Philippines, you can't be around the kitchen. And also in Italy, you can't cook because you're going to destroy everything. So it's, you know, it's highly advantageous. And there's also the idea of, in lots of Hispanic culture, you can't drink lemonade. So it kind of relates to, maybe there's, it's not always about negative things. It's about taking care of women, giving them break. Okay. I see that. Okay. But I, you know, from a Chinese culture and my experience living in Hong Kong is I saw more of the negative side of it. I mean, I wish they kind of like respected to say, okay, you rest for these next five days. No. If anything, like in the film industry, if they, if you had your period, and not that you would announce it, but they say that women can't sit on camera boxes, basically, any equipment, because women, because they bleed, are deemed as bad omens and can create like a bad luck to something. And it's like, wow. So I think, yeah, like the problem with a lot of these myths then is that it's still treating having a period as a deficiency, right? And that there's something wrong with you in some way. So even if it is, you know, like, oh, you can't go in the kitchen. So then I don't know, you can't cook in. I don't know. You have a, you have a break. You're still being viewed as deficient in some way. Like why can't you be in there? It's not go have a rest. You know, it's, there's something wrong with you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you think in our modern times that we find ways to question these or balance the traditions and where it comes from with the modern kind of concepts of how we need to take care of ourselves? What do you think? Where do we draw the line on accepting all traditions that actually may affect how we are viewed in society? I think it takes time. Just, you know, just we're, we're talking about this openly. Maybe perhaps 10 years ago, we wouldn't be sitting here and talking openly about female hygiene products and period. But so I guess it takes time and it takes a lot of when you're exposed to diversity where you interact with different groups of people. I think that really helps to make you think differently on things because your values change in life. So does your perception and misconceptions as well. So I think it takes time and it takes this. You got to talk about this. This is, this is a big contribution to breaking down that. Learn about things. You just mentioned today, I just learned that you said that I think is it in Japanese culture that Japanese women aren't encouraged to make sushi when they have their period? Yes, that was one of them. Is it their taste buds? It's taste buds. See, it's related to a lot of nutrition stuff too. Yeah, I don't know. And there was a lot of, there was a lot of myth where behavioral restrictions where you can't wash your hair throughout the week of menstruation. Well, in my country, we have to stay warm. Yes. It's not always negative stuff. It's also about embracing women's body too. Yeah, yeah. I tell my daughter, don't eat cold things when you have your period. See that's coming from your Chinese roots. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there is, you have to understand the openness of the vulnerability when you have your period. And I guess that vulnerability kind of opens up to a really bigger kind of concept of this conversation, doesn't it? Like why are we as women vulnerable? Because we can menstruate. What does that mean? And vulnerability is not a bad thing at all. How is it a form of resistance? Exactly. It is, it's not oppositional. Vulnerability is not oppositional to resistance. Right. That's what feminist theory tells us. So in our kind of a wrap up of all these kind of like different attitudes and perceptions on these things, what do you feel like we need to kind of give as a takeaway to this topic of feminine hygiene? Yeah. I think for me it's mostly education, just because I'm an educator, right? And so I do think we need to find ways to educate children, especially, right? How early do you think that comes? You know, I think when you start, well, I mean, you could start at the home too, right? Like if you, like a kid finds, I don't know, like a box of tampons. Yeah, what happened to mommy? Why can't you just tell them, like, oh, it's a tampon and like, you know, tell them what it's for, right? So making it less taboo in that sense. But also in schools, when you start with sex education too, I think there are a lot better ways that we could talk about this and discuss it together. Yeah. I think that together things are key. I think that's really a good point. Yeah. Yeah. So? Well, I'll speak as a mother of a boy and a girl. So it's about starting beginning within the family. So first thing, just got to be open about this. It's okay that boys talk about period boys, boys can listen to their mother about female bodies. And I think that's a very good beginning for breaking this negative misconceptions and behavioral restrictions that make women seem vulnerable that they need help. No, it's just about embracing it. So I think as a mother, it begins within the family but we just have to be very open about this. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we opened up a really great platform to talk about these sensitive issues. And it's just the beginning of many to come. And if you have any ideas of some sensitive feminine, not feminine, but just women's issues on gender or sensitivities of how socially and culturally we seem to kind of block things that are so called taboo or inappropriate, text us and call us and email us at Think Tech too so that we can discuss and open up this conversation to people and make it a healthy, healthy conversation about sensitive issues. So I want to thank both of my guests today, Haley and Saul for talking and bringing up the International Women's Group and congratulations to us, I have to say on creating a platform for this because it's really important. Yeah. And tune in again and we'll be talking about more sensitive issues but highlighting and supporting and celebrating the culture of women. Thank you and see you next time.