 Well, I was thinking about China and what a hit Mrs. Reagan seemed to have made with the Chinese leaders. And I was wondering, how do you think she might go over with the Russians? They're harder to figure. I'm sure she could be good in your strategy. But when you go abroad on these diplomatic missions, in what ways is she helpful to you? Oh my, I think of just being herself and just as you say, the reaction to her. I remember in South Korea and the president and I and his wife and she was a little gal like Nancy is. And after a couple of days and the four of us had met in their residence and now we're on our way to the state dinner. And Nancy and his wife were walking ahead of us and he and I were about 20 feet behind and I nudged him and I said, look, and like two schoolgirls, there they were holding hands and walking down the hall and just chatting with each other. But I'll tell you, back when I was governor and Richard Nixon asked us to do a mission for him to Asia to represent him and he made the suggestion that it would be better if I not go along with family. Really? Yes. Really? And if there's something about it, then there were three more times than that he did. I made four trips, three of them to Asia and one to several countries in Europe for him. For him? And always the same way. And I don't know. I think it gives an atmosphere that gets down to being congenial and friendly quicker than if you just go as a head of state or representing a head of state and to meet in a business like way. After the day's meetings, do you talk to her about what you and the leaders discussed? I just assumed that she's cleared for top secret. I hope so. Does Mrs. Reagan ever critique anything that you say or scold you like, for example, what was her reaction to your joke about outlawing and bombing Russians? Well, being a wife, she cautions me all the time that I can't ever rely on the fact that the mic might not be open or might be open and so forth. And so did again because obviously I was saying what I said just off the top of my head for the benefit of a few people like this that were in the room with no idea that the networks were eavesdropping or had a line open. Of course on that, I sometimes, and I've told her, I wonder, granted that, okay, being in a position I am in, even just for a few there, I shouldn't have said it. But I didn't say it for any circulation beyond that room nor would it have been circulated. But I just wonder, isn't there a certain responsibility in the part of a free press, free because it's in a free nation, to also use some control on their part because it doesn't become an international incident until they spread it all over the world? Well, did you and she talk about it afterwards? Yes, of course. I wished I hadn't said it. But did she scold you? No, she didn't scold. But I told you so as me. Do you think that she's changed since you've become president? No. Is she the same person that she was before? Yes. Do you think maybe that public reaction to her has changed in the four years you've been president? I do, because I think she started off with getting a pretty bum rap. You do. I think there was some kind of preconceived image that, as a result of some image making that went on, and it wasn't fair. When you say changed, I think there is some change. She's better able to take some of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. I remember when I was governor and there would be some attacks on me. I would know that she'd heard them or read them when I came home because I could smell the bath oil clear down at the front door. She'd take a bath and then all by herself in there, she would respond to these charges and just have a good time getting it off her chest. Now she doesn't have to take that bath. She's used to it. She's used to it. Well, I was going to ask you, when criticism becomes too severe, does Mrs. Reagan come to you for comfort or does she just keep that to herself or in the bathroom? No, we're not very much for keeping things from each other. But as I say, she's better able to take it now. She knows it goes with the territory. How did she learn that? Did you have to sort of help her through a lot of tough spots? I think as the time went on, there were eight years there in Sacramento of that and gradually, as I say, she learned that saw it happening to other people too and realized, well, that's just part of the game. What about here in the White House? What would you say was a tough time aside from the obviously tough time when you're in her assassinations? I mean, as far as was she particularly sensitive to the criticism of her redecorating? This was upsetting to her and she had a right to be because vastly distorted and an image was painted of her that was absolutely false to what she actually is like. And well, for example, the dishes. She didn't go out and buy a set of dishes for the White House. Two donors who wanted to remain anonymous simply ordered them through a very fine maker of China. And I think it was wonderful and it was most helpful to her when someone like Margaret Truman communicated with her and told her how much she understood because I don't think there had been I may be wrong in this so don't hold me to it but I don't think there had been new China since Truman's day. I knew at one point what the facts were there and I can look them up. People who've been married for 30 years and more such as yourselves can't help but have an effect on one another. Has she changed you in any way or have you changed her? I don't know whether I'd be able to tell or not. We've gotten along very well over all the 30 odd years. What about politically? Have you had an effect on her politically? Well, yes. And this is contrary to, again, part of that image making. Really? That false image that somehow she was a power behind the throne directing me or something and stories that appeared that my change in my political views from Democrat to Republican had been as the result of her. She would be the first to tell you that, and she's not very proud of the fact that she just was apolitical, she just had no interest in it and never given politics a thought. And so if there was an effect, it was, yes, it would have been my getting her interested in this, but the change was all mine and, yes, that has taken place that she now is aware and is conscious and to the point of believing that more people should take a greater interest in public affairs. Would you say she has good political instincts? Yes. Do you rely on her in a, I read about the 1980 campaign and I have certainly the impression that she was a strong strategist in that campaign in a certain way. Is that true? No, there was a time when we had to make some changes and we both were aware of it. Things have been getting rather unhappy now between us, but in the campaign. No, we, as I say, it's just, I don't know, for as far back as I can remember in the marriage, I have anything that happens or things that are happening that are interesting, the first thought in my mind is, my first image in my mind is that I'm going to tell her about it. She doesn't have to say how are things at the office today. I was going to ask you, who's more or less conservative, is she more conservative than you or less conservative or how do you define your political philosophy? No, I think we're in complete agreement on that. But as I said, when we were married, politics was the farthest thing from her mind. Was she a Democrat then in the beginning? No, well, I assume because her parents were Republican, I assume that she was Republican, but there was never, it had been coming on me for quite some time. For a great many years, as I've always said, if in Hollywood you don't sing or dance, you become an after-dinner speaker. And so I'd been out of the mashed potato circuit for years and I literally converted myself to things that I always did in my own speeches and I talked of public things and things that I thought were wrong and it just finally dawned on me that what I was saying, I could no longer follow the line of the leadership of the Democratic Party. Now, when I started as a Democrat, my first vote in 1932 for Mr. Roosevelt, I could still go by square by that because the Democratic platform that year pledged a 25% cut in the cost of government, elimination of needless bureaus and commissions and agencies and a return to states and local communities of the authority that they claimed had been unjustly seized by the federal government. Now, I think that platform, there's only one party that would fit that platform today. That's the Republican Party. Well, would you say that Mrs. Reagan came into this role of a political wife somewhat reluctantly? Well, we both did. Not so much back in those days when, believe me, there was never a thought in my mind that I would ever be in public life. I always think you have to pay your way and the people in show business have always been most generous about their talent in singing and dancing for worthy causes and all. Well, being a speaker, I'd usually wind up MCing at fundraisers and so forth, campaigning for people I believed in and worked for and at that time was doing it for Democrats. And it wasn't until the speech I made in the 1964 campaign for Barry Goldwater, the national speech that the following year, a delegation called on me to ask me to run for governor. And we both of us just dismissed it out of hand. I said, no, you go find a candidate and I'll go campaign for him and help. But no, this is our life and the other. Well, they kept on and said the party, the Republican Party, which I was a new member of, was so terribly split after the bitterness of that campaign that they kept coming back and coming back and saying that I could bring the party together and so forth. And finally they added to the place that she and I couldn't sleep. And we finally said, what if they're right and what if we don't help and the worst happens? Could we ever live with ourselves? And finally we both came to an agreement that I would make a deal that I would, if they made it possible for me to go on a speaking tour next several months around the state, and not just political speaking, just regular kind that I've been doing and everything, that I'd come back and tell them whether they were right or wrong that I was the only one that offered a chance of this victory and all. And I actually started out with the idea that I'd come back and be able to say no. I realized about a month before the time was up that no, I was going to have to say yes. So it was reluctant. But once she made that decision with you while she went into it with her full... She does things also though that she doesn't do for political reasons, but things that just come naturally to her that are raised and by her very wonderful mother. Things like in California she became aware of the program called the Foster Grandparents Program and it wasn't doing well. It was kind of, and it wasn't getting too much governmental attention and this just looked to her like a wonderful thing particularly for those elder citizens who don't feel needed again as well as for the children themselves. And she really became the spark plug that made it catch on. I've read that. And I remember we went to Australia on a trip and I always like to do Q&A whenever I can so after my speech I did open it up to Q&A and in this Australian gathering, big luncheon someone asked her a question and she told him, her answer was telling him about the Foster Grandparents Program and a few weeks after we were home she got a letter from Australia that told her they now had a Foster Grandparents Program. Is that right? They followed her lead. What's her role going to be in the campaign? Well, I guess like it was the last time. Her role is traveling with me. There are sometimes some things that she has done she prefers to do Q&A than to make a speech but no, we campaign together and I think that's right also. I think the people have got it right to see you together. She's lost some weight since she's been here dropped down a couple of dress sizes and I don't think it's because of the White House food and I bet it isn't because you're hard to live with. Do you think it's because it's a tense job being First Lady? No, I think there was a great traumatic shock in the end of March in 1981 that I got well quicker than she did and then when it was followed by times when I'd go out on one of these one or two day trips and so forth and I knew that she was tied up tight until I got back. That was part of it and then she had a tragedy in her own family and that too was very traumatic. Is she still uptight whenever you're apart? I think that's eased somewhat. The Nancy Reagan you see, the wife and the mother and the friend and the pal, is a lot different than the Nancy Reagan the public sees. How do you describe that difference? How do you...? Well, as I say, there was a lot of false image making that went on. Those people who then get to know her, what she's like, find a very warm person. You only have to look at those photographs like the trip that you were on in China and see her when she enters a place where there are children and it's like the pied piper. She doesn't have to open her mouth and they come at her with open arms. It's wonderful to see. They just swarm over her, showing the children maybe you're wiser than older people are with regard to a reading character. But she's a great sense of family loyalty and believes very much in that. And it's just that... It's hard to let one's inner, more private person come forth in this fishbowl environment that you live in, I'm sure. There must be times when the thing that you value the most is just being in private together. But the White House obviously, or the presidency always intrudes, what does she say when you bring the work home? Oh, understands. And if there's someone there, some of her family or anything, visiting or anything and after dinner and it gets along toward nine o'clock or so and we're sitting around and talking, she'll make the excuse for me and she'll say, you've got some work to do that you brought home. And I'll say, yes, I have. He's got some work. I get to go do the work without looking like I'm being rude. She makes the excuses for you. Yes. Do you ever discuss the work that you bring home? Oh, sure, yes. As I say, there aren't any secrets between us. Maybe sometimes I bore her telling me about it. Do you solicit her opinion on positions you're taking and appointments or issues? Not in the sense of outright asking, what should I do? But talking about them, telling what my concerns are and so forth and she pitches in and... She becomes a sounding board? Well, then as to what it sounds like to her and so forth and ask questions, well, what about this or that and it's all very helpful. Well, on television the other day in Santa Barbara she sort of filled in for you and she sort of knew the answer. Is it because of these? That was magnified out of all proportion. The simple truth of the matter isn't she would tell you herself. She was talking to herself. They kept on and this pause that I made was only because, as you know, I don't like to take questions at a photo opportunity and three of us were standing there and they asked and my mind was, should I just say no, I'm not going to answer and at the same time I didn't want to seem surly because I was putting them down and it was the question that was all the time of what are you going to do about the Russians? Sometimes I wish somebody would ask me what I think the Russians ought to do about me. They never do. But she actually ducked her head like this and she didn't even know I could hear. I guess I had the button turned up. She was on that side of me and she just said this and I thought, yeah, that's right. That's what we can do. What you're saying is you would have preferred not to answer at that point? Well, as I say, I hate to break the rule which I do every once in a while because sometimes I console myself when I break the rule at a photo op and answer it. It's because the particular question is one that if I don't answer, I have given a story as well as if I did answer and maybe a story I wouldn't like. Like I could see it. The president refused to answer this question and so sometimes I think it's better to say it. But right then I was thinking to myself, am I going to answer this? And I heard her and she had her head down and she just murdered this thing to herself. And I said, that's... And then I repeated it. What kind of a mother is she? Was she the one who was the disciplinarian or was she a soft touch or what were the dynamics? Well, she was more the disciplinarian because mainly it was actually a time factor. When I was doing the General Electric Theater, we were first married, children were young, and I did that for eight years. There were about three months out of each year, not all in one shot, but in which they had me on the roads speaking. So she was left at home and in charge. And then of course came jobs like Governor and this and all. No, she was the disciplinarian much more than I was. I'm the soft touch in the family. And she knows it and I think the kids knew it too. They could get their way. I could sometimes come to the foot stomping stage and move in. Did you ever spank? Did you ever spank? I'm trying to remember whether we ever did or not. I don't think so. Do you and she ever disagree about maybe issues or like abortion or gender gap or ERA? No, pretty much in agreement. Did she have any influence on you in the appointment of Sandra Day O'Connor? No. She knew that I'd made up my mind after I was elected before I actually took office that when there was a vacancy, I felt that the time had come that there should be a woman on the Supreme Court. But you see again I'd had eight years of judicial appointing and was pretty well set in my ways as to the things that I would look for and that I... I think that in California for eight years I made it a point that I was going to take judicial appointments out of politics. At the state level they had been very political in the past. They were used as rewards for political activity and so forth. And I did take it out. We set up a system whereby there was a committee of citizens in each judicial district. There was a committee of fellow lawyers and judiciary and then there was the state bar board and each one of these separate from the others. We submitted the names to them and looked at their ratings when they came back and they had a regular form for ratings that ranged all the way from NQ not qualified to EWQ extra well qualified. And I abided by those. Now in the larger districts the leeway that I had would be that there would be more than one that would come back to me with that and then I could use things such as wanting women appointees or minority appointees or something of that kind. I could balance without violating the the standard we set for ourselves and I stuck to that. But no, we talked about it and everything and she was as enthused as I was. In your tribute to her Wednesday night what are the points you're going to make? Well that's, I think that's all been pretty well done. That's unfilmed. Is it unfilmed? Yes. All right. Yeah. I think you're going to need to drug yourself. Can I just ask one thing? Her anti-drug campaign. I mean you must be very proud of her. Oh yes. She has made such a difference nationwide. You could literally say when she started and became, well she was interested in that before we came here because as a mother herself and knowing what it was doing to so many the idea was that they're just, here and there there may have been parents that were aware and were doing trying to do something but as any widespread movement there wasn't parent involvement. There was too much of parents just refusing to believe that it was true of their children. And I think the one great thing above all that she has gotten is across this country now is the involvement of parents. And it grew out of her also seeing these young people in these treatment centers talking to them and hearing what they had to say and how many times they would speak while they were in that treatment about how they wished that their parents had been aware and had moved in on them and also the hunger they had then for their parents to go back to have the family life that they had tried to destroy with their drugs. And yes I think the, because I'll tell you with all that we're doing in law enforcement to intercept drugs with borders and coastlines like ours there is no way that you are ever going to be able to a great extent take the drugs away from the people. You have to keep trying. You have to keep making it difficult for the drug pusher. But we will succeed when we take the customers away from the drugs not the other way around. When we get the young people particularly get them to stand up and say no more then we'll have won the battle. I bet you were interested in the outcome of the DeLorean trial. Yes, but I'm not going to comment. No, I didn't think you would. I know it is. Well, enjoy the tour. Should I? Oh yeah.