 Okay, welcome. Thank you for coming to share this afternoon with us. Thank you. We are very honored that you came and we have a nice intimate group to have a deep journey into the mind and come into a deep experience because that's what we all want is just an experience. The island and I have flown in here from Salt Lake City, Utah down to Big D, first time in some years since I've been down here so it's great to be back again. We think we'll be able to have a very deep, profound gathering this afternoon. I think we will probably break about 2.15 or 2.30 just for refreshments. I know Peter and Lisa have snacks set up over here. So have you seen that? There's restrooms that are back here behind us. And so we'll have a little restroom break and a little snack break in the middle of the afternoon before we continue and round it out. So how many of you are familiar with The Course in Miracles? Is everyone familiar? Okay, that's good. The whole group, 100%. We enjoy coming upon invitation and it was actually quite a few years ago when Peter contacted me. I think the first time we talked, you called me on the phone. What did you say, about 12 years ago? We had a lovely chat on the phone and then at some point Peter sent an email just saying, well, just remember Lisa and I down here in Dallas, if you ever get the call to come here, please keep it in mind and I have an invitation folder that has lots and lots of invitations. So I was sitting there for years and then I was just over in Australia and my mobile phone rang. It was Peter. And he was like, what's your schedule look like? I'm just finishing a second world tour. I just did one over in Europe and I just went to China and Japan and Australia. But I said I will definitely keep it in mind when I come back. And then when I came back, we had another beautiful call and some email exchanges so it unfolded so effortlessly for us to come down here and happened to have a companion flight. So I said to Diana, she liked to come and she said, oh yes. And she had a pretty severe sprained ankle at the time and then she went through a miraculous healing so she's 100%. And that's another thing about miracles is they are, they start in the mind, they stay in the mind, they originate, but the world is a reflection of alignment. When we align with the source, when we align with spirit and God, then the world reflects that. So that was a nice little case of symptom removal. You had it? It was, because when it happened, I was like, oh, something's gone wrong and all I heard was like, oh, it's just an opportunity to experience a miracle and I didn't even want to pray, what do I do with my leg? It was what's inspiring and I felt like, oh, I have to. I felt like at a time I had some things to prepare for these gatherings and I felt like nothing can stop me. It's not something that's not negotiable. And I just went with it and in that moment I can feel just staying in that inspiration that that was the miracle and I felt that it's gone and it's just going to be a matter of not even time, that there's going to be an effect of it. And I heard that would be for teaching purposes, but that's not even the miracle. My ankle got healed just with it in the moment, so it felt. But I felt like the miracle was in the mind that it's just staying in that inspiration. That was it. That sense of non-compromise, that nothing can prevail the miracle, that nothing can be stopped, that was the real thing. And everything got reflected really quickly, so that was quite miraculous. I'm glad you could come with me. It worked out very nice. I feel like when we go on this journey, we are also accustomed to looking to the world for signposts and symbols and reflections. And I think we have a bit of a trace of that ego thinking where the ego had put the world as a projection just so we would get lost and caught up into these images. Hi there, welcome. Come on in on a rainy day, come out of the rain. And so much of the authentic spiritual journey is really loosening our mind from attachment to outcomes. Because when we consider those outcomes specific forms, then we are attached to those specific forms and it's very upsetting and irritating and annoying when those forms come out in a different way than we had anticipated. So you might say that that's what the authentic spiritual journey is about, it's just becoming so trusting, so intuitive, so internally guided and directed that you loosen from attachment and form outcomes. So you can let all things be exactly as they are, so you can just watch the world and behold the world without feeling that your emotions are on a roller coaster ride based on good outcomes and bad outcomes. But that takes a lot of mind training. That takes a lot of practice. We were having dinner last night and I shared that on a recent live television broadcast to a lot of Latin American countries and the Spanish speaking countries, one of the questions was about discipline and why do we so associate discipline with a negative experience? Why do we have a negative connotation with the word discipline because if we're honest there's all kinds of things in this world that require discipline to pretty much learn and master any skill it takes a certain amount of discipline. When we think of education there's a discipline required to giving ourselves over to the coursework and practicing and reading and studying and remembering and being tested. There's just lots of areas where discipline is required and so I don't think it should be too surprising that to wake up from a dream of separation that there's some discipline required which I just call mind training and that it will require some repetition some practice, some dedication, some devotion and I would say initially actually some effort where it's almost like if you were swimming downstream and at some point you were told you have to go upstream like the salmon it wouldn't take some effort particularly because it seems like swimming upstream is going against the current and if we've been so addicted to ego patterns and ego distractions and ego temptations then to turn away from the ego and to turn toward the spirit can seem to require some effort and this is only necessary while we still believe that there is something to resist when we get past the stage of resistance when we get past the stage of feeling like we're fighting against something or battling against something then obviously the resistance is gone we actually can see it was never there at all I studied I was in university for ten years and when I came into Course in Miracles I actually was quite surprised to find that Jesus has a positive interpretation of resistance because you don't usually hear resistance talked about in positive terms it's always negative terms but Jesus says that resistance is the ego's interpretation of progress and growth so whenever you feel resistance just think of those words from Jesus progress and growth progress and growth are always occurring and the ego interprets that in a negative way it interprets itself being undone in a negative way it wants to exist it wants to have its own existence separate from the universe like a wave telling the ocean it wants to exist independently of the ocean like a ripple telling the ocean or like a sunbeam telling the sun I want it to exist apart from the sun it's really quite arrogant sometimes people have described the ego as like a mouse roaring at the universe probably it's not that one and so what we see is that we have a golden opportunity now as we give ourselves over to this mind training to actually have a profound change of mind a profound change of heart that changes everything it brings us back into a natural state of happiness and joy and that's our life that's what we dedicate our life every second of every day to just that and it's been quite a journey maybe you can share a little bit about what's going for you starting off 15 or so years in Russia and then another 15 in Canada I was just thinking I wouldn't know where to start where to begin yeah yeah the truth is discipline has always been part of my life and has always been part of part of my upbringing in a way and it's always been it was presented to me that yeah to achieve something you truly want you're going to have to practice and be very disciplined and I felt like I was open for it I was very very open for it and I felt like I had potential to really put that discipline and practice and achieve something my problem was that I never could find some that which I would think that it's worth it to put all my heart into it and I had some interest and they would just like come and go and even some potentials that I could be potentially good in something one of those potentials were acting and even filmmaking and it always came down to a point where I would think that this is great but when it came down to can you commit your life to it and in terms of I knew that it was going to take a lot of discipline right away the answer was no actually I don't care for anything that much and everyone knew that about me and it was a bit of a forgiveness lesson for my family especially for my mother because it was like I can't look at this wasted potential and it was just a reflection in my mind of course it was being reflected to me that I felt like I was wasting my potential and what do you know of course the miracles came into my life and it wasn't even a question and it wasn't even it wasn't even personal like I felt like something inside me didn't even ask as soon as I opened it and the way it just came from me so quickly this is going to take over all my effort this is what I'm going to do till the rest of my life and at a time I didn't intellectually know what it was but I felt like this is going to be my priority from now on and there's nothing else I could possibly take on because I was about to live for some courses in university and that was gone from my mind forever I felt like I wasn't going to have time this was going to be my practice and discipline and everything is going to come about this study so to speak and it and it has been the experience I felt like like I said it wasn't really I didn't even know at a time what it is that I was signing out for but later on I discovered that it was presented with a workbook and so that was a good start to walk around in the dark how do I practice it so it all came step by step by step by step and then more and more I came into I started noticing that what I would find out later I found out that it was called guidance so that was part of it and it became really investing in that more and more and more beyond everything else and then I just watched it wasn't even that great I felt like it was pretty quick everything fall away from my awareness and in terms of everything that was clearing the way so that everything that was in support of this practice would come my way and then shortly after when it became very very clear in my mind in the way that this seems to be the path that I've relocated from Canada to the States to Utah and again that was again a way to go deeper into their practice and into practicing and the interesting thing that as soon as I came to Utah and at that point I was I would consider myself probably someone who has become quite an expert of sorts that I knew something I've got some ways as soon as I came to Utah it was again really strong prompt that I have to forget everything I learned now and again later on I found out it was just intuitive it would come in this way that this is part of a course in Miracle this is part of practicing it this was part of emptying your mind and in a way it was like pointing to that state of mind of being clueless and it was again I don't know anything and it was I felt a deep desire actually I watched a movie that David showed the island at a time and it was inspiring so much that I came out of the session and I felt I please help me I have to forget everything I've learned I have to start anew with this with this new context in this new way once again and and so in that in a way it was just again back to just everything applying everything in a way I don't know what anything is for but you tell me you interpret everything you tell me and and that has been the practice because when I came to Utah it felt like I came to a different planet so the whole setup was made in a way that I was very dismantled I didn't know what was happening and it was just again back to tell me tell me tell me tell me and we use a lot of the practice that we use everything for forgiveness we use everything as I found out later but I didn't even know at the time he was just trusting everything like in a way all symbols are used to be forgiven everything is to be forgiven and as I was every time as I was stepping into a new task, a new project it was I I didn't know anything about this but you tell me you tell me you tell me you tell me and even the spirit would remind me my my call was to guidance was something that was very inspiring to me and in the end everything led into that that was the only thing that was supported that was the only thing that I was coming stronger and stronger and stronger with every task into listening and hearing in a very deep way in everything and no wonder I was put in a situation where I didn't know anything like tech leading a tech team I knew nothing about tech yet there I was so it was not going to be accomplished through knowing anything it was just simple trust and listening and following and it was everything that would come my way but the purpose was to only to stay connected in the spirit and to listen and follow just be very very deeply in touch with the guidance and so that won't like I guess if I had to summarize it that would be that would be it that's part of your immersion yeah and it's interesting too right before the scanners started Tulsi was we were out in the kitchen area and she was saying it was very emotional but it was really like there's a deep deep see the desire to really come into an experience of what it is like to live from a right minded state of mind and a lot of you know that A Course in Miracles is we could say a non-dualistic pathway it's a pathway that points to and leads us to an experience of absolute oneness of absolute connectedness here we are in unity and this church even the title of the church is unity we're coming into an experience of absolute oneness and connectedness and an awareness that love is all there is it's one step beyond the Beatles all you need is love to all there is is love it's not even a need but while we're going through the oneness process we're coming in the direction of we're returning to love as Mary Ann Williamson's book talked about return to love and yet this state of mind right mindedness that Jesus uses he just opposes it in the Course with wrong mindedness saying that in reality there's only love but while you believe in separation from that love I'm going to have to give you a pathway back that teaches you the discernment between being in a tune with spirit or aligned with spirit and being out of a line and what wrong mindedness says in the most simple way is the belief in an external cause in a cause in the world and that's the thought system that we've all been raised with but the definition of coming to earth is about to believe that there's something outside of you that can hurt you or that can help you that can something outside of yourself that can heal you or that can make you ill that can give you life or it can take life away it can kill you this whole realm of time and space is the belief that there's something outside basically when we come back and talk about living from right mindedness we're coming back to that experience that the mind is this causative and I can be hurt by nothing but my thoughts I could be helped by nothing but my thoughts these thoughts are very very important so it's very very important that we get attached with our thoughts if thoughts are unconscious if thoughts are judged against and pushed down into the unconscious mind and you might say what seems to be our life in this world is more like a robotic acting out of unconscious thoughts and beliefs so it's absolutely important imperative actually for us to become fully conscious of our thoughts and the reason that thoughts are pushed out of awareness is because often times they've been judged against and they're too terrible they're just too horrible to be held in awareness so you might say that there's a fear in the mind of the power of these thoughts and why is it that we would be so afraid of thoughts except that there's a belief in our mind that we could miscreate with our thoughts that we could go against our source go against our creator with these thoughts that's where the terror comes in that's where the fear comes in and that's why all of the discipline and the mind training that I talk about coming back to become fully aware and to come into the actual experience that our source, our creator God never gave us the power to destroy never created us with the power to miscreate it's only this ego belief that brings up this idea of miscreation God is spirit and God creates in spirit and the spirit is pure love so love comes from love love extends love even in this world we get apples from apple trees we get pears from pear trees peaches from peach trees and you might say if we take that back to the realm of spirit spirit comes from spirit so the word of God here we are down in the bible belt and I grew up in the Christian faith and there was a lot of talk about the word of God well the word of God I finally got to the point in the course where in the workbook Jesus was talking about the word of God with a capital W so I'm kind of interested in it tell me what is this word of God the word of God is I am as God created me the word comes directly from God it's our spirit it's our essence, it's our identity and Jesus even addresses some things that we've grown up with because the bible says the word was made flesh and Jesus in the course in this text addresses this and he says strictly speaking this is impossible the word I am as God created me is spirit so strictly speaking he's saying you can't translate formal into flesh and some of you also might remember in the bible it says that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit there was a beautiful monk that lived back in the 12th century named Saint Francis and Saint Francis loved the bible and he loved reading that part that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit and he followed it up with I now am born again because we in this day and age we hear a lot about born again Christians but what does that mean does it mean you profess faith or belief in Jesus Christ as your savior you can see it can come down to like a definition are you saved have you professed well with the course of miracles we're starting to realize that by saving this salvation is more than speaking a few words wouldn't that be nice that's almost as easy as Dorothy and the Booze of the Boss click your heels together three times there's no place like home there's no place like home there's no place like home and you're back we're finding that it's more than professing the belief of Jesus Christ as savior in fact Jesus he doesn't shy away from words that saved thing is a big deal for me I liked reading in a course of miracles that he said only only your mind requires salvaging so only your mind requires salvation he doesn't talk about souls you know how is it being Christianity saving souls and saving the lost souls and going out all over the world to save the lost souls and proselytizing Christianity saving souls he's not talking about saving souls plural he's saying only the mind requires salvaging and it's only salvaged through peace which makes it really simple the only way you come back to know your true identity is through forgiveness which is the salvaging of the mind remembering your true essence as divine mind and it's only accomplished through peace what that does is it says look around you at the projected time space world and you may turn on the news and you may have friends you know save the animals save the rainforest save the river and the drinking water up in North Dakota save the planet save Mother Earth from pollution save the world from nuclear proliferation and war we see a world we perceive a world where there's all this constant talk about saving something certain people are supposed to be saved certain souls are supposed to be saved Mother Earth should be saved save the atmosphere save the ozone layer and everything that's talked about saving Jesus is saying in the Course well we can simplify that it's your mind that believes in separation your mind that believes that it's separated from its creator that's what needs to be saved he's like saying let's make this real clear that's the one thing that needs to be saved is your mind that believes in separation your mind that's sleeping and dreaming of exile from God that needs salvation and nothing else needs salvation everything that you put all this effort into in terms of the planet the atmosphere and all the causes small cause see all that is still part of the distraction from going inside and that beautiful teaching be still and know that I'm God all of those causes I'll put in quotes are all a distraction to that so it's a very simple direct teaching not only does Jesus say that the mind that believes in separation needs salvation but he is also saying it's already been accomplished a lot of us were raised with the idea of grace not through works do we receive salvation but through the grace of God grace has already been accomplished and that's where it gets simpler and simpler the more you give yourself over to this thought system this healing you start to realize all I'm really doing is accepting what is rightfully my inheritance my my creation my sense of the natural state of mind that I was created in by God that's all I'm doing that's all this seeming journey is about is coming to that acceptance he calls it accept the atonement but really coming back into that grace and I really think that that is what we were beginning to talk about tools he was asking what is right-minded living like because it can't be like a formula and it can't be that it's going to turn out a certain way and it looks a certain way but we can say that we'll feel a certain way you'll feel happy you'll feel light-hearted here we come all the way down from Salt Lake City down here we're staying with Lisa and Peter and their two dogs names are happy and jolly you see now that's what I call the beautiful humor of the spirit happy and jolly when your pets are named happy and jolly and of course Peter was telling us about their frogs and their dogs it's a long history happy and jolly are just the most recent reflections of love and light and that is what it's so important to come to see is you have to open to your inner divine guidance you have to open to intuition you have to open to that inner alignment and flow in order to realize who you are there's no amount of past learning there's no amount of book learning there's no amount of technical learning there's no amount of learning in this world that will take us back to the remembrance of who we are we simply have to come to experience of listen and follow because even if you begin to listen to your entire self your intuitive self it still won't get you out of this world if you don't follow it you won't promise and nudges in you go not today or are you kidding me or I don't think so you know where we get into a resistance with our higher self that's the ego trying to hold on to the status quo it's trying to hold on to the familiarity it's almost like if the ego could speak it would say thank you spirit for sharing but no way already I'm going to keep things just as they are and even though they may not be perfect they're better than most other people have that's one of the great devices of the ego comparison you've got it good you've got it better than a lot of others you should be grateful that you've got it better than others really it doesn't proclaim something God at all some have got it good and some don't on our drive over Peter was saying that was the big issue life issue was this idea of disparity the haves versus the have nots and a lot of times people will say this is a very strange realm where some can seem to have and some not have and would God create such disparity would love create such differences much of the thinking around diversity I've heard most of my life is all the way through university and beyond was people kept telling me diversity is a good thing and you need to learn to accept diversity and let's honor all the differences and I like that word honor and I like that word accept but the only thing was the diversity and the differences is really implying not only duality it's implying multiplicity it's almost like that was part of a discussion saying let's just accept multiplicity and that's actually the ego that's sponsored isn't that sometimes people would say well you know I'll tell you my truth and you tell me your truth and she'll tell you her truth and he'll tell you his truth and can't we just agree to disagree and accept that the truth is different for all of us my truth may not be your truth but Jesus has a section in the Course in Miracles called the laws of chaos notice that last word is that the truth is different for everyone the first law of chaos Jesus is not asking us to accept diversity he's not asking us to ok everyone's different so just accept the differences he's basically teaching we are the same we are the same spirit we are one mind we are unified and differences are unreal all differences are unreal well if that's the case if that's the fact of it then that means comparison has no basis that means competition has no basis and most everything is perceived everything perceives through the ego's lens of these differences all of the rules of the world scarcity, lack, competition survival of the fittest you know all the things winning and losing I don't think Deanna in a fall of football I was telling her a little bit about the Dallas Cowboys and their record this year with only one loss and she said oh that's something good to be forgiven Dallas is having a good year Deanna said that's good it's a good thing to forgive we're taught to use forgiveness on the negative things we're taught to forgive those years when there were whatever 4 wins and 11 losses maybe next year we'll just forgive that year but can we forgive the good can we forgive the positive can we forgive those outcomes that the world judges is very good very well because that's actually what it's going to take for us to go to peace of mind we're going to have to realize that as long as we have these thoughts and beliefs and we prejudge what is good and well and right in terms of form then we're going to need to have our mind rinsed of that the judgment is not just negativity judgment is on a continuum so all positive judgments are equally destructive as negative judgments that's another big one you know I was raised with accentuate the positive eliminate the negative and don't mess with Mr. in between remember that song but none of us were taught to forgive the positive forgive the negative and forgive everything in between as well can we forgive the entire continuum of positive and negative to me that's the essence of the course because what the course is saying is there's no degree of difficulty there's no order of difficulty and there is no hierarchy of illusions that what makes an illusion an illusion is its temporary nature and everything that we perceive of time and space is temporary it will not last forever there is no form that will last forever that's the basis of beginning to open up to say okay you're going to have to show me that you're going to have to take me into that state of mind because that's not human the being part of human being the human part is the preferences the judgements, the opinions all the striving and the struggling and the being part is that which God created is perfect perfectly loving and innocent always has been, always will be so what we'll be sharing today we'll be opening it up to to questions and you sharing experiences as well we will be really looking at the idea of trust what we are placing our faith and trust in which I would say you could say Jesus the Holy Spirit what is required of this development of trust which I would say is letting go of our past learning all of our past learning our past beliefs, our past thoughts emptying the mind because Buddhism and a lot of great spirituality talk about emptying your mind of everything you think you think and think you know and opening up to a sense of guidance where you feel connected you feel tuned in you will first go from a sense of guidance like there's a higher power or presence that's guiding you as a person to more of a merge as you go further along where you feel more and more identified as that higher power at one with that higher power and then the persona which is the Latin word persona is mask means mask as you begin to drop the mask of being a separate, unique individual, autonomous person as that mask starts to get washed away more and more you feel this merge with that which has been guiding you so it's no longer the guide, the spirit and then the person it all dissolves even the dichotomy between higher self and lower self or spirit guide and human being all of that starts to just dissolve away what will happen? what will become of me oh my god that sounds a little scary what will become of me you would imagine that you become more consistently happy consistently joyful, consistently peaceful and your sense of lack is washed away your sense of need is washed away and ultimately a state of complete bliss and contentment take over in your mind for that sense of scarcity and lack and struggle the scarcity and lack and struggle that was the ego kicking, screaming, fighting to be an autonomous entity an autonomous person the bliss the ease the happiness, the joy that's the natural state of mind of the Christ of the living Christ of the creation of God so that's the transition we're going through so what we want to do today is bring that into practicality because that's really I think what Tulsi was saying how do we practically live this what's the way we practically live this how can we open to guidance and is there a way to get in touch with those resistances and fear of that guidance which I do receive a lot of emails and that's basically a primary theme of a lot of the emails is I'm going through a lot of struggles I really have an intuitive sense of the spirits there to help me and guide me but I seem to be a tough nut to crack or I seem to be fighting and kicking and screaming maybe it's not as bad as Linda Blair head spinning in the exercise and spitting all kinds of things out of the mouth and maybe it's not that bad but still there's a bit of kicking going on like a bit of I want to be in charge I want to still be in charge I want to still have my hands on the driving on the steering wheel or the reins of the horse I want to hold on to that that's the part that takes a great willingness to keep at it, to be persistent when this ego beast seems to rear up in you that says I want to be in control I've been hurt and wounded in the past and I'm never going to let that happen again so I'm going to take charge I'm going to take charge of everything and then that doesn't seem to work so well either trying to be the one driving it's a good theme it's a good theme so we've got our ruling mic right here and if anybody has any questions or topics or themes that spring off of what we've just started up with then we've got our toolsies bring that mic over so we can record it for everybody would you elaborate some on forgiving the positive I know that forgiveness or I think I understand that forgiveness in the course is not like what we think of in the Christian path of oh yeah I forgive you I don't condone but I forgive you for what you did I understand it's something more than that but if you would elaborate on that I would appreciate it yeah well I would say a lot of us have come through educational systems where we start to be taught as part of our training was this thing of low self-esteem and high self-esteem and so most of us kind of said okay yeah our instructor said it's much better if you have high self-esteem than low self-esteem if you have low self-esteem you're going nowhere you're just going to be a doormat you're going to be a victim you're going to be a castaway if you have low self-esteem so the goal was to have high self-esteem and then if we go to the bookstore or to the library and you go through and you get maybe back into psychology philosophy, education, this and that you notice a lot of bookstores and a lot of a lot of libraries and so forth have self-help sections it's a very big section self-help well we need to stop for a moment and say what is the self that needs to help that's an interesting question you know before we get too caught up in all the self-help books and workshops and seminars and we do them for how many 20, 30, 40 years oh no it's a lifelong journey you need so much self-help you'll spend the rest of your life decades in self-help who is the self that needs to help well actually let's go back to the idea that God created a perfect child an internal child a spiritual child that's in the likeness and image we'll say God created us likeness and image God is spirit we're kind of getting wise in some of this stuff we may have looked at the Sistine Chapel it's a beautiful painting by Michelangelo but we we're getting past the idea that God looks like some old man with long white hair that's a little bit superstitious to think we like the finger touching that's kind of cool but it's beyond somebody's coming in the front door you want to answer our front door there? sure come on in we've unlocked the door hello I'm looking for a meeting for yeah come in please welcome come on in very good you've come a long way what's your name? Dale I met you a couple times on campus I'm great I love it this is like so intimate when I went out 10 minutes out of town so beautiful and the door was a comedy ring doorbell and I said darling enter the door and she went well there's some kind of listing for the rest of the day that's great this is a gpo this is our little welcome to our home now here in Big D just welcoming our brother from Houston to come and ring the doorbell this is just a good old down home spiritual revival going on here nothing but the joy you've got to know if you come down here the Dallas is east of here this is Arlington Fort Worth so there's different aspects oh yes Fort Worth and Dallas are like not at all comparisons and differences Linda's learning I'm pretty new here so we got back to that self-help idea we were just talking about self-help and the big self-help sections in the bookstores and libraries and who is the self that needs all this help and I started off by going to this low self-esteem, high self-esteem because we're really getting at the question do we have to forgive low self-esteem and high self-esteem to get back to perfect innocence let's just suppose we all were created in perfect love and innocence and that that self it's not it doesn't have an esteem attached to it it doesn't need esteem it is what it is some of you know Byron Katie's work loving what is what if God created us is just pure beingness, pure isness and that essence of who we are is perfect love perfect innocence, perfect joy it doesn't have anything to do with low self-esteem or high self-esteem because the question that Tulsi was asking right before you came in was she was asking about about forgiving the good what's the thing about forgiving the good what if good and bad, right and wrong judged in terms of behaviors and forms is all part of the continuum to keep us blinded to knowing who we really are now how do you approach this for instance I was raised in Christianity and went to church, went to bible school and I have to say at some point when I started looking at the bible I had one of those bibles that all the words of Jesus were in red anybody ever seen those things? I was like, isn't this great? I'm going to cheat, I'm just going to read the red words I like the red words some of this other stuff in this book it's pretty twisted sometimes when you try to make sense of some of it but the red words were always good because for me the red words was like eternity speaking to you you never find in black I am the way the truth in life that's definitely red words definitely red words before Abraham was I am that sounds like something eternal speaking that's not a man or a woman not even masculine or feminine that's eternity speaking and just supposing that when you read those red words that that is the Holy Spirit or the voice for God voice for eternity speaking to human beings drawing us back into eternity maybe that's what those red words were about well I started to notice some things about the gospels because there's certain things that show up in a lot of the gospels let's just look at something real basic from our daily lives like positive you're asking about positive forgive the positive I'm asking about forgive what that is forgive because if you're going to forgive negative forgive good I'm still not clear about what that looks like in a better way yes we're going into a state of mind we could say forgiveness is a state of mind that has no judgment in it whatsoever it's just pure acceptance pure unconditional love no judgment at all no positive judgment no negative judgment when I was reading the red words I would notice that Jesus always loved emanating, radiating but he didn't seem to be that interested in the form he seemed to be more interested in what we call the be attitudes he seemed to be teaching the be attitudes he seemed to be teaching us a way to live with an attitude that is in alignment with our our heavenly creator and I also notice things for example like for most human beings we deal with a lot of what I would call compliments and criticisms isn't that part of daily life I think there's a lot of people pleasing what goes on in this realm and there's a lot of compliments and criticisms that are tied in, especially the compliments but I would watch it now Jesus even though he was living with these apostles, 12 apostles he's like never hey James I like that haircut or hey Peter that's a beautiful robe you're wearing hey John where did you get those sandals they're good we laugh at that because those aren't red words and yet we're dealing with black words all the time at work with our spouses with our bosses with our children we're dealing with a lot of compliments and criticisms and it's quite interesting to try to deal with those because the compliments we could say are the positive and the criticisms are the negative and Jesus was always drawing us into perfect equality drawing us into a state of mind drawing us into the grace of God and so I would say that's part of answering what this forgiveness is also it's part of addressing your first question it's kind of like how old is it go to live this experience and what it is is starting to go through a purification of your heart a purification of consciousness where you begin to realize that everything you think and say and do teaches the whole universe beyond this little body beyond this little personal self every single thought every single word and action is teaching broadcasting and live streaming to the entire cosmos not just this solar system but the entire cosmos that what Jesus was an example of was he was a representation a demonstration of the highest that we can attain in awareness which is our natural state of mind and also with Jesus he was really a demonstration of that state we don't see Jesus struggling and getting into all kinds of conflicts competitions we don't see him comparing and contrasting and fighting against we see a presence that's radiating through which is demonstrating so with Jesus he was really a demonstration a good demonstration is always practical and yet even though his ideas were very high and seemed to be talking a lot about God and the Kingdom of Heaven his demonstration in terms of form was gentle, was kind was friendly was open, was loving all the things we would come to expect from a saint that is a avatar a living demonstration of spirit it's that day to day moment to moment living attitude that demonstrates that love and of course there is a discernment that's going on as well because if there are thoughts and beliefs that are ego based they have to get exposed they have to get brought to light often times people would say to me, well I don't know when Jesus went into the temple and he started letting the birds out of the cages and turning over the tables where the money was on they said he looked a little bit angry there and I said can you imagine somebody who's happy and friendly happy and jolly knocking over a table because they were demonstrating that love and joy and happiness is what it's about not buying and selling not commerce in a temple of God it was a demonstration and it seemed to be an action that involved spilling some tables over knocking some coins over angry when he was doing these things you might say proactive for God but I don't really think we can interpret that just because some tables were knocked over and some coins were flying that Jesus was angry because that would go against all of his teachings love you one another love your neighbor as yourself love the Lord thy God love and anger don't mix so that's what we're opening to we're coming to that state of mind where you go through a purification in your own consciousness and then whatever you do like St. Augustine said famously love and do what you will isn't that a beautiful teaching love and do what you will it doesn't proclaim getting into fights over right and wrong and ethics and morality in this world is come to the state of living presence of love and then just let your actions flow from that love I saw our microphone that passed over there here I feel like I know the premises of a force of miracles and I believe them and I want to be there and I can go along for long periods of time feeling joy and calm and peace and love and then all of a sudden I get in maybe not all of a sudden but I go through periods of sort of a deep depression at not being able to get there you know I feel like I just don't know where to turn and it's hard to get that feeling back and I'm wondering about ideas to help me through that yeah yeah we can talk about that that reminds me of that Old Barry Manilow song trying to get the feeling again I've looked high low everywhere I possibly can but there's no trying to get the feeling again you know with that where we have an experience of lightness and joy and then when it's gone from awareness it's like we have an amnesia and we forget the miracle you want to share anything about that I think so a little bit yeah in my experience as it turned out to be where there seems to be a contrast like everything finally there's that experience it seemed to be that the experience is given that I didn't even know that I was calling for us and then you could even call it an experience that I would call a happy dream and it would last and everything is just absolutely the feeling was that I'm just in love with the whole and the whole is in love with me and everything is absolutely perfect everything works together for good nothing depends on the outcome there's this experience of that state of mind and then boom gone and next thing I know I'm in a place where that's not the experience at all and so it felt so that was confusing for me for a while and I came down that the answer for me was that there's some deeper filters that are in the unconscious that have to be forgiven that have to be brought to the light to be forgiven and so especially if it's so obvious that okay it doesn't it's not consistent and so instead of just staying with that what felt like a heartbreak and I've lost something and it would just be it became more and more it turned into an inspiration and I would be back into okay now it's time to just listen and follow again and trust and I do not know my best interest and of course the most perfect most perfect things would be given to me to again listen and follow and practice and of course underneath it all it would be healing what is truly to get in touch what is it that needs to be healed and forgiven and the unconscious believes and of course there's gentleness to it I always advocate that it's not about digging it is really listening and following and then the unconscious believes Duke especially in the past I think 2015 was dedicated to that in my life I can say it directly and it was dedicated because it felt like it happened a few times where there's the happy dream and there isn't and so I've committed consciously I said okay what would it take for me to go all the way to the consistency and I prayed and prayed and it came down to just okay there's some something that needs to be forgiven and then I've committed to it in a way that that it wasn't it was take I don't know how long gonna take maybe the rest of my life but I've like I've received that experience so I knew it was real so it it can't be lost and so therefore I was just committed to go like I don't know the way you give me the way and part of it and it was consistent I would just a lot of stuff came to my awareness that I didn't know about that or that I was even surprised I thought I've healed before and it was a long story short it's all it's nothing it's nothing mysterious it's all the belief in lack and unworthiness unworthiness lack abandonment so it's nothing mysterious but then it's one thing to say unworthiness but then to be able to really get down to the core and even see how I started linking the mind started linking it that every upset has was the core of that and so and then and then I was given a function to begin with it was the administrator for the admin and but that was the purpose of it to really get into like to get into it very deeply with everything that doesn't support that experience and so and then after I don't know after a while I don't know how long it's been then I started to notice a shift and so so that I guess that would be if that makes sense that would be that would that would be my end is there no end to these blocks these things would keep rising like you said over and over again oh there's that one again I could save myself which is fine but sometimes I it's so thick that I can't I can't get out of the depression that I feel because that has happened again to me and it doesn't appear to be from anything that's happened outside it just arises in my experience there is the end although there is I at a time I said I don't know how long it's gonna last it's not a quick fix but then there is when you make that prayer and and you would say I don't know lead me I don't know what it would take I don't know how it's gonna get healed there is that relief in it and the most most supportive to or the next step is given and you know and there's awareness of the purpose for it there is that sense of inspiration and ignition although it's not necessarily oh my god I'm ignited and I'm back and so there is that trust and ignition I could always feel through the whole during that whole time when I like I forgot that but I remember referring to it as a dark year but there is also always that underneath it all that sense of ignition and I heard myself talking about being ignited even within that knowing what it's for and and of course there is I talk I think I've mentioned a lot in the past of few weeks about accepting the tools it's not about stagnating in it and even to get in touch with the like what is it underneath it all with the beliefs like there's a tool like we have a tool it's called instrument for peace and levelsofmind.com instrument for peace this can come in very very handy and and then also from there on anything that comes your way and then there's always I feel like there's when there's a real prayer of I don't know lead me I don't know but you know but I'm committed to walking through this the way you would have me walk through it something comes in very clearly when there's that awareness and knowing this is what it's for and it's just following that step so I find that they're absolutely crucial otherwise it's just as an ant as an ant but in that way there is already a sense of ignition as as that step is taken so yeah you have a comment on that yes like which do you was it as the depression as a you well depression is sometimes caused by anger so question to you with the is part of that do you feel angry at yourself I'm sure that's all it is it's that why can't I probably you know make what can I get there my question to you is have you forgiven yourself you know when this happens what you can do is recognize that you're being really hard to forgive yourself and that you're trying to you know your expectations of yourself are very high high and then take the time just as you forgive everyone else the whole world and you know all the practice that you do take some practice to forgive yourself and see if it goes away yes and there's a beautiful line from the Course where Jesus says whenever you feel the need to become defensive about anything you have identified yourself with an illusion so it's beautiful reminder again to that the truth doesn't need forgiveness the I amness doesn't need forgiveness spirit doesn't need forgiveness forgiveness is for illusions and the truth is beyond forgiveness you might say that forgiveness leaves toward the truth but the truth doesn't need forgiveness it's the sleeping mind it's the mind that is bought into separation and given trying to give life where there is no life that's the mind that is going through the healing process and so it is helpful to as Linda was saying to bring it back to self because really everything is about identity you start to realize that all upsets are always about identity there never is he says in lesson number 5 in the workbook I'm never upset for the reason I think that's such a helpful lesson because it's like oh yeah dislodge from this whole story this whole justification this whole mental vice of proving somebody wrong or blaming yourself even for how could I have done that how could I have been so stupid to do that you know it's really letting yourself out of that vice and sometimes people would say well what happened after you did the workbook and everything and I said well there was a time where I would just go happily along my way like you were saying lots of joy and happiness and when a trigger would come or an upset would arise I would just use those early workbook lessons I would always go through 5, 6, 7, 8 with myself whenever I started to get upset 5 is I'm never upset for the reason I think 6 is I'm upset because I see something that's not there 7 I see only the past and 8 my mind is preoccupied with past thoughts well that helps because instead of getting off and justifying can you believe what they said did you see that look on their face and that I can't believe well if I see them the next time I will let them know this ego wants to go all revved up to justify the fear justify the anger and Jesus comes out clearly in the Course and he says anger is never justified and then in the next paragraph he has aligned the beginning of the paragraph and says anger is always justified we were having that discussion we were having dinner last night we came up to those words never and always and we all laugh because they get tossed around all the time on planet earth the love songs I will always love you with the Houston or the never word comes in but actually when Jesus says anger is never justified he's saying if you could go honestly into your mind you would see you have no basis for anger it's always some kind of error or distortion that's trying to get a hold of your mind whenever you get angry and pardon or forgiveness is always justified and it's always a gift to yourself it's not really a gift to anybody else you're always letting yourself off the hook where your small self be released and coming back to that wholeness and that magnitude so thank you thank you for sharing that okay I don't really well I guess I do not okay so with what you just said like when you see when you have the awareness of what you're doing and you have like I'm going through a process right now I'm not going through purification processes but it's like I need you to be guilty when you see because your identity and you even see that your identity is so wrapped up that you're so much you're like terrified of the truth or allowing that love it's like how do you really get past that terror is it just a matter of is it a surrender do you get to that process of surrender I don't know I can just think of there's a couple of people that I'm just like hanging onto their guilt even though I see it's myself and I see that my identities are wrapped around it and everything and I just don't want to let it go because the terror is like it's like I see at times I think about when you talk about the death wish I think about it's like I need to be guilty you to be guilty so God won't come after me it's like I think it's like that heavy and grain that I deserve to be punished but I need it to be you so it's not me and it's like how do you get to that core how do you break through that core um that now it's really God who does let you and that's all it really is and you just surrender to those of wanting to hold anybody guilty even when like I said that's the part that's like I can see past that it's not them and it's me or whatever and I can process it through my but just to emotionally just surrender um so it's just I'm asking you know what do you do when you how do you just really open up and let that love come into you yeah thank you for sharing that for opening up with that it's like a lot of friends that I've known over the years who've been gone through the 12 step programs once they get kind of past the surface addiction to whatever whether it's food or alcohol or drugs or sex whatever it seems on the surface and they start to do their inventories and they start to go deeper and deeper into the mind they start to encounter what is called in the blue book the stinking thinking you know once they get through all these behaviors and memories and oh my gosh it's just been horrific and I'm an addict and all this and this and they start to expose all that and I think also they're surrounded by others who are exposing too which starts to give them a little bit of a feeling like wow I'm not the only one thought I was the worst creature on earth and there are others that are reflecting this same addiction then we get down to the stinking thinking and I would say that from of course Miracle's perspective what's under that guilt guilty thinking what's under that even attraction to guilt Jesus has a subsection in his book called attraction to guilt is this belief ultimately the belief that I can create myself so we're exposed to so many ideas and a very popular new age idea is you create your own reality that's very popular and that's not the teachings of of course Miracle's of course doesn't teach that at all actually it's basically teaching that God is the creator of reality and you can only at most accept the reality that God created for you you as a co-creator even are creating in spirit with God but co-creation doesn't have anything to do with this world of time and space not creation or co-creation has nothing to do so there's enormous distortions that come in where you try to mix creativity with this world we think of painters as creative we think of musicians as creative we think of dancers as creative we think of inventors you know inventing new things all the time we say oh they're very creative you know if they poets we think of creative and so on so forth so of course the Miracle's and say well actually creation is spirit, creation is love creation is light and there's an addiction and an attraction to guilt and if we follow the roots down deep enough it's all based on one idea which is I can create myself instead of in the workbook I am as God created me now the ego will jump on this one helpful idea that releases the Son of God to be the Christ which is I am as God created me and it will say oh come on you don't have to settle for that you can be the top creator you can take that away you can just serve you can steal that function away from God you can be the top creator and Jesus almost has an antidote for that in the workbook where he actually has a workbook lesson where he says I choose the second place to gain the first it's a very interesting workbook lesson in fact it reminds me a lot of the Bible where Jesus would say things here we are with the red letters again why do you call me good only God is good you see Jesus was always pointing back to the source toward the creator always always always pointing at the creator in humbleness because he was saying if you've seen the Father you have seen me you know he basically he was sharing that the Christ and God are one in spirit but it's extremely humble and whenever you try to bring the personal in take personal credit for anything believe that you personally have done something great or well you go for personal attention and so forth it misses the mark the humility is gone it's back to putting faith and strength and attention on the ego so the spiritual journey is one in which you have to have great allowance and willingness and those are you're describing very articulately the shaky moments where there's a fear of love you know at first it starts to acknowledge that like whoa I I always thought I love love and then you start to face this thing of fear of divine love and it's the ego's fear it's not our fear but it's the ego's fear of annihilation of being dispelled being dissolved the ego knows there's something above it but it doesn't know what that something is it's always fretting it's always concerned it has anxiety it has concern I gotta be careful it's quite afraid of being undone and yet that I'm doing is inevitable it doesn't even like that word it doesn't like the word inevitable because that's the destiny that everyone is fulfilling to come to that so when you have those points when you start to feel that fear it's always good to take that pause to relax, to take a deep breath and what you're doing is you're facing that that fear of love it's only the anticipation that is where the fear is when we relax and surrender then we open to that experience of grace and that is what convinces us it's that actual experience people have asked me about that same question in regard to not so much guilt but in regards to sickness they'll say well from what I'm hearing you know you're teaching that sickness is a decision and they say who in their right mind would choose to be sick and I said there you go you got it no one in their right mind would choose to be sick sickness is always a wrong minded decision sickness is always a decision based in fears, scarcity, guilt and it's trying to draw forth a false witness so in this world we seem to be able to draw forth those false witnesses of frailty fatigue sickness and so forth but the higher court we could say the Holy Spirit dismisses the case every time no matter how how we build a case no matter how many details we fill in no matter how full and specific our case is it's like going before the judge the Holy Spirit and there's there's no judgment at all it's like gavel down case dismissed it's been 17 years building that case and you're just going to dismiss the case without even hearing it yes, case dismissed that's a beautiful reminder that it comes down to that in the end we have to let go of thinking that these cases these false evidence appearing real that those are actually capable of limiting us thank you it's break time and Peter's got everything ready in there the table is ready with snacks so let's take about maybe about a 25 minute break