 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is David Ross. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Hardy Burt. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Mr. Bruce K. Brown, former chief of petroleum administration for defense. Mr. Brown, it's a great pleasure to have you with us tonight, sir. You're a distinguished member of the oil industry, and our viewers are interested in your problems. Now, first, sir, it's been in the news that the Turkish government has denationalized its oil resources, meaning that the Turkish government is going to turn over to private enterprise the problem of finding and developing its oil. Now, sir, how do you regard this particular bit of news? Is it hopeful? I think it's very hopeful for the Turks. They have tried for 30 years through government bureaus to locate oil. I think they have 400 barrels a day against the need, perhaps, local need of 15 or 20,000. Well, now, during the past 20 years or so, the trend has been in the other direction, hasn't it? That is, more nations have nationalized their oil properties. Well, I think that any little spots on the curve make a trend, but, after all, there have only been two cases. There's Mexico and Iran. They think this isn't having any of the South American countries that nationalize it, but they didn't have any oil anyway. They just talked about it. With this having a significant so far as the Middle East is concerned, there seems to be a trend toward nationalization there, in other countries being more lenient about their policy toward foreigners coming in and producing oil. Well, of course, the Turks are building a civilization, and they use a lot of oil. I imagine that's one of the things that affects their viewpoint. They have factories. They have automobiles. It's a little different to be oilless in the state of apparent economic advance and to be oilless when you don't have anything anywhere. Do you anticipate that American companies will now move into Turkey and help them develop their resources? I think they will, yes. I think they're proud to be quite a lot of competition. Well, sir, now the oil industry occasionally has its problems with government, and our viewers are being interested in this, sir. Do you feel that the industry is being harassed at this time by the government of the United States? Not by the government as such. In the domestic scene, I think that the industry is getting along all right. I don't think they would have any reason for complaining abroad, the state and the defense departments. Well, is there any agency of the government that is... Well, one that doesn't have any business abroad at all, the Federal Trade Commission has been writing naughty stories and circulating... What's their complaint against the American oil industry? Well, I read the 370-page report they wrote. They say that the five companies, not the industry, but five companies joined with the British company and a Dutch company to fix the prices of oil in the world. Was this an official report of the Federal Trade Commission? They circulated it as such, although when they first circulated, no member of the commission had ever read it. It was written by the staff. How long was it held up before it was issued? Well, they issued... I don't know how many copies, but I got number 45 in my official capacity. Top secret, Mark. There might have been a hundred for all I know. They issued that in December. It took until April to have it published after that, and I'm sure that they must have known anything they issued in as many copies would not remain. Do you think that this is hurting you all in... Well, the report itself condemned the oil companies as a bunch of, shall we say, buccaneers. And it's very hard for foreign nations to distinguish between a few economists and the Federal Trade Commission what they think of the oil companies and what they say the President of Congress does. In other words, the foreign nations interpreted it as an attack by the government of the United States. A official attack by the official government of the United States, although no commissioner had ever read it. Well, do you think that's caused American oil interests abroad much damage in these countries? I know it has. In what way? It started a welter of excitement in every country of the world, in which there was oil and in which there were oil companies. Always along the same line, if the Americans think their oil companies are bad, they must be bad. Now, sir, you said this wasn't an official report of the Federal Trade Commission. Who is responsible for preparing this FTC study? The staff members, the people who employed as economists and lawyers to think up things. I see. There are problems that most Americans, I'm sure, think of occasionally. We hear so much about foreign development of oil, in particular Middle East. What about what is our oil condition? Do we have enough oil for our own country within our own borders? I believe we do. Currently, we import about 10% of the oil that we use, mostly almost entirely from South America. But if they didn't have less oil fields in South America, I think probably we would be producing it here. Well, are we fortunate enough that the Western Hemisphere is sufficient as far as oil is concerned? Completely self-sufficient for years and years, as far as I can see. How does this reconcile with a statement that I heard some petroleum authority make the other day, and he said he thought it would be a good chance if the United States lost its Middle East oil of Americans having to go on gas rationing? Well, I know what he means. The European nations are almost totally dependent now on Middle Eastern oil. If they lose the Middle Eastern oil, and if we still wish them as allies and try to support their economy, I think the men must mean that we would share our oil with them. And if we tried to share it, it would be pretty tough. Do you think there's any chance of us losing Middle Eastern oil? Not if we behave with the intelligence of 16-year-old children. Well, so now a new administration is coming in on January the 20th, and does the oil industry think that, what do you expect of this new administration? Well, of course, I can't speak for the industry. As an individual, and I hope an informed individual from the industry, my own feeling is that the new administration will be less belligerent towards business generally than the fast administration. But I don't look for any particular change as far as oil is concerned. Well, in this program recently, we've had people who talked about the great developments that are coming in atomic energy. Now, any of our viewers who may be employed by the oil industry, do you think there's any danger of anybody in the oil industry losing his job in the next few years? I hope they are worried about it. And that doesn't mean that I don't believe that atomic energy may not be developed. But after all, less than 20 percent of our oil is used to generate power and for lights and heat. And the first development, the only one I can visualize will be for that. I can't conceive a 15 million separate atomic energy plants and automobiles. Automobiles would be too costly. Well, gasoline is pretty expensive, some of us find it that way. And what about, what's the prospect as to gasoline and oil prices? Are they going up? Oh, I'm sorry, sir, to correct you, but gasoline itself doesn't cost any more than 27 years ago. 27 cents a gallon at the refinery. 27 years ago and today. What's going up as taxes? You're telling me now that the price of gasoline at the refinery is the same today as it was 27 years ago? Inflation hasn't affected it, in other words. Well, I don't know. I think it would have gone down, probably. And without inflation, everything costs more than it did. I don't think the chances are too good for a drop in price and I don't think the chances are too good for a drop in tax. Now, the gallon of gasoline may cost 30 cents. Only 10 cents of that is the price is the cost of gasoline at the refinery. The rest of its taxes and transportation. Are we depleting our oil reserves at a very fast rate? Is there any chance of us running out of oil, say, within the next 10 years? We are finding each year more oil than we use. A great deal has been said about the big oil strike in the Dakotas. Do you expect a lot of activity in that area? Yes, I think we'll be increasing activity for years. It will be years, however, before it is developed to where it's as big in oil problems as, say, Louisiana or California. Well, on this program last week, I recall, we had some discussion of the vast industrial development of Canada, including its oil development. Now, what about Canadian competition? Do you think that will affect the industry adversely? I don't think it will adversely. After all, there's a very narrow line that you can't find between Montana and Alberta. Canadians are using more and more oil. They're only producing a third of what they need now. What do you think about synthetic oil developments in case we, after many, many years, did run out of oil? Could we produce it since then? Yes, sir. So there would be plenty of oil. We could do it today if the economics required it. Well, are we still looking for oil? Is oil canning for oil going on widely in the United States now? Yes, sir. Until a month or two ago, we always experienced a slump this time of year. There were more teams out looking for oil and more drills working, drilling holes in the ground than ever before. Well, now, is that to carry it on principally by individuals at Wildcatting, or is it done by the major oil companies? Well, I would say, principally, by an intermediate group. The major oil companies do a lot of exploratory work, drill a lot of wells, but the majority of the discoveries have been by smaller groups, but not individuals. I mean, small companies or syndicates of several people. Well, there's a final question, Mr. Brown, about the people who work in the oil industry. How does their standard of living, their weight scale, compare with coal and steel and rubber and the other big segments of industry? It's much better than coal. It's much better than steel. I'm not too well informed on rubber. It's quite a fine wage. Approximately what is the average hourly wage in refineries today? In the refineries, I don't know if I'll give you an average, but I'll give you a typical one of a modern refinery. Around $2.15, maybe $2.20 an hour. Do you have the same situation that you have in other industries? Do you have the industries organized and also do you have the labor organized too? You have the big union and the big industry? We have several different types of unions in the oil industry. We have A.F.L.C.I.O. and independent, but we do not have the big industry as steel. I mean, the negotiations by the companies have been independent. Well, thank you very much for being with us this evening, sir. The opinions you've heard our speakers express tonight are entirely their own. The editorial board for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Hardy Burt. Our distinguished guest was Mr. Bruce K. Brown, former chief of petroleum administration for defense. This charming matron in furs and flounces with the Laun Jean watch hung from a chain around her neck serves to remind us that this coming holiday is counted as Laun Jean's 86th Christmas. This year more people throughout the world will receive Laun Jean watches than ever before. More important, however, the Laun Jean watches now at your jewelers are the finest ever produced. And each one is worthy of the highest honors which Laun Jean's have won. Ten World's Fair Grand Prizes, twenty-eight gold medals and countless prizes for accuracy from government observatories. Every Laun Jean watch is superlative in style, superb in finish, and unsurpassed for faithful timekeeping. A Laun Jean watch is indeed the gift of great prestige. And unbelievably, you may buy and proudly give a Laun Jean this Christmas for as little as seventy-one fifty. Laun Jean, the world's most honored watch, the world's most honored Christmas gift, premier product of the Laun Jean Wittner Watch Company since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at the same time for the Laun Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of important issues of the hour broadcast on behalf of Laun Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Laun Jean. This is David Ross speaking for your regular host, Frank Knight, reminding you that Laun Jean and Wittner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than four thousand leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem, agency for Laun Jean Wittner watches. Challenging Entertainment, I'm Nebus on the CBS television network.