 Alright, it's January and a lot of you are just getting started on your fitness journey or maybe you're restarting. Well check this out. What kind of body do you want? Do you want a soft body without much muscle, flabby hormone imbalances, slower metabolism? Do tons of cardio. If you want a body that's hard, chiseled, sculpted with faster metabolism and hormones that are balanced, lift weights, strength training is superior in a head-to-head competition when it comes to aesthetics and even overall health. Now I am oversimplifying, but if you're only going to pick one, make a strength training. What if you're hard and also a little soft? I don't know where to go with that. Just half of me and then the other half. You just want to be huggable but also hard. You know, every gym owner or anybody who's worked in gyms for years knows this. You can see this. I could tell by somebody, let's say you have two people that come in. They're both fit. Both are in good shape. Good diets. Yeah, good diets, low body fat percentage. And I 100% can see, and they can be like they said, same weight. They can look very, very similar in size and weight or what like that. But it's very obvious to which one has achieved that body through doing lots of cardio versus the person who's achieved it through strength training. It's like they look completely different. I remember as an early trainer, I mean, I thought for a long time I thought the way to get lean was cardio. The way to build muscle and strength was to lift weights. This is what we all thought in those days. And when I started to work in a gym, you know, you're there a lot, right? Especially I was there all the time. I loved it. So I was there, you know, 7am. I'd leave at 9pm, you know, six, seven days a week and you just start to see patterns. And I'd noticed these like regular members that would come in that would be on cardio. And I mean regular like clockwork, 6am, same people on the treadmill or on the elliptical, you know, four or five days a week. Like these were the consistent maniacs. And then I saw the consistent people that would lift weights, both men and women. And it started to become very obvious to me. I'd see these like, you know, we call them cardio bunnies back then. And they were typically women, but you'd see this with guys too, where they would just hop on cardio. They would do an hour, an hour and a half. Some of these people were in there running straight for an hour, five days a week. And their bodies looked like their body fat percentage wasn't that great. They kind of looked flabby. They had great stamina. Obviously they were really good at building stamina. And then the strength training crowd looked so different. They were chiseled. They had good shape and structure, better posture. They looked, and I dare I say younger, because there were a lot of these people were in there were, you know, 40 plus 50, a lot of them. They looked younger and this became very obvious. The longer I worked in gyms and where I could see the difference in training. Now, of course, you have to compare apples to apples. Like, can you be fat and lift weights? Can you be lean and do clear? Absolutely. So all things being equal though, the strength training promotes lean body mass and burns body fat. Cardio promotes stamina actually also can promote the reduction of lean body mass to become so that you could become more efficient with calories. There was a recent study that came out that compared, I've already mentioned this twice, but this is a crazy study. They compared strength training to cardio to cardio and strength training. So they actually made three comparisons. It was strength training alone, cardio alone, and then cardio plus strength training. Strength training. By itself. Yeah. Burn the most body fat and built muscle. Cardio alone, lost muscle and some body fat cardio, but strength training lost body fat and lost less muscle than the cardio. But didn't build muscle like the strength training. See, it's interesting. And I'm glad a study like that was conducted, but we didn't need that. We saw that firsthand, like you were talking about. And I really do see that as we don't put enough weight and value in just being in the gym environment and being able to see how all these methods play out. This literally is right in front of us. It's an anecdote. And I know it doesn't hold that high scientific standard, but that's why I've always had an issue with some of these isolated studies that really try to pinpoint one of those factors of cardio versus lifting weights. It's like, well, let's see how this plays out long term. And you can see this a lot with all the members right in front of you. Yeah. I mean, we didn't need that, but the general public. The general public. Yeah. We knew better and stuff like that. And I'm going to ask, what do you think you guys has led? So we obviously saw that, right? We saw tons of these cardio bodies and were probably a higher percentage of people than the strength training bodies, right? What do you think the major contributor factor to that is? Like why? I know it's multifaceted. I know it's not just one reason why that is, but what do you think are like the major contributors to what caused that? Do you think it's just purely uninformed? Do you think? Oh, why more people? Yeah, why more? Yeah. Because you make a good point right now. It's like, let's just look at it. We don't need to study. Look at it over a year's time. It's very obvious. Okay. If it's very obvious and we didn't even need to study that, why did so many people go that? How was fitness portrayed, a fit healthy body? How is that portrayed in media? It's not lifting weights. Yeah. So you're going the direction that I think. Yeah. 100%. Yes. 100%. Cardio is what you do to be fit and lean and healthy and it's been promoted that way. The only time you see strength training in media was for meat heads or extreme steroid bodies or body builders or whatever. It was never like the kind of, especially for women, by the way, the kind of body that women want, fit, lean, sculpted, nice glutes, hamstrings, not overly masculine, whatever. That's the body you achieve with strength training. That's the body they display on media that they attribute to cardio. They'll show a body like that on a movie and it's a woman running long distance. And that's what she, that's, oh, that's why she. I think initially too in gyms, like there was sort of that like subculture within the gym where it was like the crazy meat head guys only in the weight room. Yes. And so there was a little bit of that idea that like, oh, this is just for them. I'm trying to just be healthy and do things that promote health. And I think that walking and running and reducing calories and things like that were ideas that were promoted culturally that are healthy in comparison to these crazy, they're taking drugs and they're all football players and all body builders. It does feel like there's been a major culture shift. Huge. Between the fact that we, it wasn't even but a few months ago, heard the term muscle mommy for the first time. I know. And heard it multiple times in one day. It was just like, oh, wow, this is interesting. Like this is not something that I'm used to hearing from clients that are inquiring about getting in shape or losing weight like that. Oh, I want to look like a muscle mommy. You never heard that before. Like, in fact, I remember clients actually like being like, no, I don't want muscular arms. You're afraid. Yeah. Like I don't want muscular arms. I want them to look, believe it or not, thin and skinny. People don't even realize how much it's already changed. I mean, when I was in gyms in the late 90s, early 2000s, I would actually get men that would say that. No, no, no, I don't want to lift weights. I don't want to get too big. I would hear that laugh. Okay, buddy. No, I'm not. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. Listen, bro, you're not going to look like a bodybuilder. Go lift weights all you want. But it's definitely cultural. Now, culture media really plays a big role in what people believe to be true. And the whole cardio revolution, I mean, it's really clear what started that. I mean, you had this kind of perfect storm, right? You had... We need a documentary. You had that book. What was that book? I always mention it. Not Running Run. No, it was... Born to Run. No, it wasn't Born to Run. It was like the running... Yeah, let me look at it. I don't remember. It's the Running Revolution. Yeah, you'll find it. Jim Fix was his name, I think. When you look it up, it was 1970-something, right? And it was a picture. It's like a red running shoe and a foot. The complete book of running. Thank you. James Fix. That book became a best-seller. At the same time, one of the biggest cultural icons of a movie was released, Rocky. And what does he do? He runs. And that just inspired everybody. And you had this running revolution. Marathons exploded. If you look up the history of this, like, Marathons exploded. Running shoes exploded. It wasn't just people in LA that were running. All of a sudden people were running all over the country. You think Rocky really played that big of a role? Huge. You don't think so? I don't know. I just think that you find a way to tie everything to Rocky. I do, but this part's true. It's the greatest romance movie in the world. Now it's the greatest running movie of all time. For young men. What else, bro? First of all. Greatest action movie. Greatest love story. And now it's the greatest running movie ever made. Doug, look up Rocky's influence on the running. You could put up Running Revolution. It doesn't count if it's an article you wrote. We've got to throw in myself. Drinking and crying. Who does that? CrossFit does that? Sites all their own articles? We just start doing that. We'll make our own studies. According to B. No, so I did a lot of reading about this. And if you look at the popularity of running shoes and just culturally, it kind of exploded. Strength training is having that movement now. Starting to happen now. Strength training, you had Muscle Beach movies in the 60s, which literally depicted people who lift their weights as idiots. Not only idiots, narcissistic body-obsessed idiots. You ever watch those old movies? Have you ever seen them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, it shows them flexing, oiling themselves up. Like, blundering idiots. And then looking in the mirror and looking at each other. It was almost like that. It was hilarious. There was that. And then Pumping Iron, which is like, it's pro-body. It's as extreme as you can get. And that was it. And then in the 80s, what was it? Arnold, Sylvester Stallone, you know? Those are extreme bodies. Yeah. So, and that might've got some guys that lift weights to differ me. Sure. But it wasn't the cultural shift that strength training needed. Andrew. Now, luckily, we have studies. Andrew and Doug, can you guys, I'd love to see the stats on gym attendance the last decade. Like, what does gym attendance look like in the last 10 years? Are we trending up? Are we maintaining? Is it like what we see in our business where it's like, you kind of find this place where you're hovering and as many people are falling off or coming back on, are we just kind of maintaining the amount of people? What do you think? What do you guys think? I think it's gone up. Yeah. Gym memberships have gone up. I think it has. But that's not gym attendance. Yeah. So, I don't know about attendance. Yeah. But memberships have gone up. So, we're selling more people. But they've made it also really inexpensive. I mean, you could make, what's it called? What's the purple one? Planet Fitness. Planet Fitness. Planet Fitness is damn near responsible for that by themselves. Listen. In 1997 or eight, 98, I think, when I really started in the gym, I worked at a 24-hour fitness. At the time, they had 74 locations. They had just merged with Ray Wilson's Family Fitness. So, they weren't 400 locations. So, 70-something locations a lot. You could, the All Club, and remember, it's 1998, not controlled for inflation. I'm giving you the $1998. If you bought an All Club membership, 24-hour fitness, I remember it like it was yesterday because I sold them, it was $249 to join, a $49 processing fee, $45 a month. That was 1998. That's high. Yeah. Planet Fitness, All Club memberships, was like nine bucks. They had like a zero enrollment, zero everything right now. It's super cheap. Because they sell memberships and they expect people to keep them. No, it's like one of the most brilliant business models ever, let's be honest. It's terrible for... Yeah, it's so funny. It's like, how do you rally your team, right? You get all these GMs, you go, all right, you guys, let's go change lives, but really we're not trying to do it. Really what we're trying to do is feed them some pizza and keep them coming back. Bro, I can't tell you that I had this like... The irony of that, right? Oh, so I've talked about this so many times before, but I remember the moral struggle. It was like this internal, because as a young kid working in the gyms, we were also very motivated to produce and sell. It was like this crazy environment. You guys know this. It was insane, especially... That's how I feel about supplements, too. Especially late 90s or 2000s. It was like Boila Room. It was crazy. Yeah, very car dealership-like. But there was also the training side. The fitness side was also very like we want to get people fit. I came from the fitness side, moved into sales, but back then nobody crossed over. So I moved into the sales side and it was all about the money there. The trainers, they'll handle the fitness, but the sales guys were trying to sell. So now I'm on the sales guy side, and I remember going to a meeting. I've talked about this before, and it was like, oh, I was so... Torn. Yeah, it was like such an internal struggle. They literally listed what kind of members we profit off of and what kind of members we lose money off of. And I remember I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, you know, my initial thought would have been like, oh, the members that use the gym the most, they're going to be the profitable ones, because whatever. And I didn't even think about it really. If I thought about it, I think I would have figured this out. And I remember them saying, people that use the gym three or more days a week consistently cost us money because they wear the equipment down, they pay their monthly dues, and that's it. The ones that make us the most money are the ones that pay their dues and don't show up. And then I remember this feeling inside of me like, part of me was like, whoa, good business idea. The other side of me was like, wait a minute. Well, think about that. That's a weird incentive. We're actually helping. You're selling people the dream of getting in shape, being consistent, but you're also betting that they won't. Or hoping. Yeah. You're betting on it or also to be a terrible business model. Right. So you're, so how great. You be at mass capacity. So think about that for a second. It's like, we're going to create this business model. The idea is this is we're going to, we're going to rally people. We're going to motivate them to come and try and change their lives and be consistent and use our gym. But secretly we know they're probably not going to. And that's why we're going to be successful. Now here's the case. That's kind of fucked when you think about it. Here's the case that I used to, and I used to try to make this case. And I don't know if I'm right or not, but I saw this with training and you guys went through the same thing. I remember thinking to myself, God, if I really taught people in early days, I remember thinking like, if I really taught people, like truly how to do this for the rest of their lives on their own, they're not going to work with me anymore. They won't need me anymore and I'll lose clients. But then I thought, you know what, I care about people so much. And, you know, over the years I got better at it. And then what I learned was is if I actually help people in real ways, I become more successful as a trainer. It's not what you think. No. So I think if gyms really, if there was like a, we need a leader, we need a leader in the gym industry to be like, here's the deal. It is expensive. Here's all our success stories. But we're going to get you there. Like we're not just, we don't want you to not show up. We want you to show up. We want to really make, and I want them to prove that that model can work. Because right now the opposite is true. The model is the planet fitness model, which is like, you know, here's your membership. It's so cheap you won't cancel, but we don't want you. And we know what you're not going to show up. Thanks for the donation. I think, I don't know, we still, you're still relying on human behavior. And like, Oh, it would be a lot of work. Yeah. It wouldn't happen. It's your, you're the house in Vegas. It doesn't matter how good you learn about counting cards. And if you, you teach everybody the secrets, like human behavior will show that like people will, will give in, will mess up, will be inconsistent, will not follow the rules, will, and eventually the house always wins. And I think that, that, that model, the gym model is built on that. It's, it's sad, but it's true. And the, and the way you can prove that is that literally if just the people, every big box gym right now, if just the people that they currently have, not getting any more, just currently have, showed up to the gym, they'd be shut down. Yeah. The fire marshal would come in and say, you cannot operate your business. You were five times capacity because you have, you have five times the memberships that you have of people that could be allowed in this building. You do not have a building big enough to support the customers that you have. Yeah. The irony of that. It's crazy. I know. I know. You know, it's funny just as I think about it, it's like this positive, it's a negative feedback loop. The gyms sign people up, people don't show up. We could charge less, get more members and not be too busy. And it's like this cycle that just continued to feed itself. The point now we have $9. Dude, I know, and that's why I always liked sort of these smaller gyms and like the ones that like all the attention was around the trainers that were there. And like, I don't know, like if there was just like this explosion of those in comparison to the big box, humongous mega-globo gym sort of franchise out there. If there was just like a lot more pockets of these, I guess, what do you call those like smaller type of? I think I'll tell, I'll say this all day long. Okay. If you want, if you're going to get started in fitness and you want your best chances of success. Now I'm not saying you can't succeed. And one of those mega gyms paying $9 bucks a month. You totally can't. They've got equipment. It's good equipment. I've seen a lot of these gyms. They're great. Some of them are even clean for $9 a month. I don't know how they do that, but they've really figured it out. You'll have access. That'll work. However, a big part of your success is going to be the kind of guidance you get, the environment that you're in, the community, you know, CrossFit proved that, right? The people you're around, your best odds are not, I hate to say this in those, and I hate to say this because I'm sure one day these big box gyms are going to want to work with us. And they're going to listen to this episode. Never mind. But you can do it differently though. It's the smaller places. Like if you want your highest odds of success. Are you talking about from the perspective of the client? Yes. Hiring. Go to a more expensive, smaller place. I think that's less to do with like the, blaming the big box or saying that the, it's just that the boutique is going to attract a trainer who is more qualified more experienced, charges more money, gets paid more money, and therefore you just get a higher quality of service. I'm just saying, even if you just paid to work out there, when I used to have my studio, I didn't do a lot of this, but every once in a while, I would allow someone just to pay me a fee to work out there. And they were always super consistent. Why? Because it was tiny. They'd come in, everybody would know them. We'd all know the person. And we don't see, I don't know if I agree with that. Oh, I thought it was interesting when we had Dr. Gabriel Lyon on it. And she was talking about all of our different personalities and stuff like that. Well, you're a fitness fanatic. It's totally different. These were everyday average people. They were not fitness fanatics. No, I mean, we'll take out the fitness fanatic part of me. I think she was describing more personality, like executive minds of people, the people that are like the performers that like... What percentage of population is that? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what the percentage is, but I think you're also making an over-generalization assuming that people would be more successful in a boutique gym. I don't think that's necessarily true. I think there's a lot of people that knowing that people are watching them are more motivated for accountability reasons. It's the same reason why a lot of people post and share things. They know that if I put it out there or if a lot of people know I'm doing it, I feel committed now to doing it. There's a difference though between a lot of strangers and like the same faces. That's what I mean by the small gym. Oh, I don't know. Really? Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think that. I don't think... I don't think there's too many people out there that go, you know what? Because I'm in this small little boutique gym, I think I was more consistent than if I would have been in that group. I would bet money on that. I don't know, man. I would bet a lot of money on that. Someone going in... Look, CrossFit proved it. What did people go to CrossFit? These are warehouses. They were shit gyms in comparison. They didn't have paint, half of them. And people go... I mean, CrossFit attracted everyday people who should not be doing CrossFit. Well, that's a class, right? So we're talking about two different things if you're talking about that. I'm talking about like a gym that Justin worked out where 15 to 20 trainers worked out of it. It's a small boutique gym. How consistent were the members in there compared to... Oh, yeah. Well, they have to have an appointment to come. Oh, wait, you guys didn't have to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was no... Yeah, members that were just there by themselves. Yeah, and then classes are different, right? I mean, CrossFit and your orange theories and your F-45s... Because you know what happens when you go to a small, you know, like 10,000 square foot gym is that you start to know everybody very quickly. You show up, it's the same people. What's up, John? What's up, Susan? Hey, what's going on? And people like that. I think that plays an important role with fitness for a lot of people. I'm not one of those people. I mean, I always felt that in a big box gym, too, though. If you come in at 6 o'clock in the morning at 24 Fitness Town on the street, you will see the same... 6 a.m. Yeah, but not at... Well, at 5 p.m. you'll see a... I mean, you'll see a bunch of other people, too, but there's always a core group of consistent people. Yeah, you worked out. You saw them all. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean... My point is, I think... There's a million ways of skincare. Yeah, I think you can have success, but I think if you want your best odds of success, work with a trainer. Obviously, a good trainer is going to get you there. The odds are far higher than doing it on your own. And then if you're not going to work with a trainer, going to a place where the people there know you and care about you, and you can do that in a big box. We did that in a big box. Mm-hmm. But a lot of big boxes don't have that environment. They just don't. The smaller ones tend to, you know? Yeah, I mean, that's a cultural thing that's happening to the gyms for sure. But one thing's for, you know, back to the strength training, the gyms, even the big boxes are changing their footprints. They're dedicating way more space now to strength training. I love that shift, you know, of focus. And I think that that's going to help a lot in terms of people, you know, the culture moving more towards strength training. And, too, I think, you know, I think that the emphasis on having coaches and trainers in these big gyms was definitely a decline. And I think if they bring that energy back where it's like, you know, we incentivize the coaches, we're paying them well and everything else to actually help the members, like, I think you can accomplish what you accomplished in the smaller gym setting in a bigger box, as long as the access and availability is there. Talk about culture. Hey, who pulled this up? Is this you? Who pulled this up? Andrew? Yeah. Save that. That's good information for all of our trainer stuff that we're doing right now. This is great. Yeah. You see all this stuff? So it says that since 2010 that the amount of people that go to gyms has gone up 27 percent. Is that 63 or 6.3? No, despite 6.3 percent of Americans never using their gym membership, the number of people visiting gyms at least two times a week is an impressive 50 percent. Is that? How do they get in that stuff? I've seen other statistics. Yeah. For example, I got another one. It says 38 percent attend multiple times a week. How do they figure that out? I mean, Ursa would probably be one of the best places to get this. Ursa's a little bit biased. It's also 2019. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's not the point. Ursa's a little biased, by the way. That's the International Health, the Racket and Sports Club Association. I know, but I feel like they would have to. I've never seen them put out anything that says that. Oh, negative torch. I'll give you a show. It's like that conversation about real estate agents. Yeah. Great time to buy. Yeah, always a great time to buy. It's always a good time. So anyway. I mean, that's a lot, though. That's impressive. The Body Transformation Bundle 2.0. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right. Back to the show. Hey, talking about fitness, I just read this hilarious study that you guys would appreciate, especially you Justin. All right. Because you coached young athletes and stuff. So there's two... Okay. After being exhausted, you have your kids run or whatever. There's two general postures you see where people try to catch their breath. Yeah. They were hunched over the head or hunched over. Or on the knees. And they already proved... Yeah, hunched over the knees is... They proved that... They proved the hands over your head was a false... A false was false. We talked about this. Yeah, hands on. You did? Yeah, yeah. It's superior heart rate recovery and greater time volume. We used to think the theory used to be that your coach used to tell you to don't bend over to put your hands over your head to open up your lungs so you could breathe by there. And that was proven false. That was propaganda, dude. Yeah, it was proven false. Yeah, it was proven false. And really, they were trying to promote that because they don't want to show weakness, and you want to present yourself as like... Yeah. I'm fine. Yeah, I'm not fatigued because if you're the opposing team, what looks over and you're silent, everybody's over just dog-tired and trying to catch their breath. What kind of signal is that sending out? Oh. So I think it's derived from that... I 100% agree. That's why I don't think it'll change. I think if you were to go watch a football field or a basketball court, I think a coach would still want to... I would tell you right away, and I knew this because we... So when I was trying out for San Jose State, it was the most brutal for walk-ons. They put you through the ringer. And I had to pass this one test that was like, you do liners, and so you do... It was 10 yards, 20 yards, 30 yards, all the way to like 100 and back, and it was timed. And you had to make it under a certain amount of minutes. Otherwise, you had to come back at 6 a.m. to do it again. And I'm just like, dude, fuck this. I haven't put everything on the line with this. I do not want to do this again. Ran as hard and fast as I possibly could. I felt like my heart exploded by the end I was done. And the coaches were there, and they're like, everybody stand up. Put your arm like... And I was like, no. It's just on the ground, getting all the air I could. And that was the only way I could get air. And then they made me stand up. And I seriously was like almost hyperventilating. I couldn't get my breath. And I knew it like being down in that hunched position. I'm like, this is all bullshit. Completely. Yeah, that psychological piece is important. Yeah, for sure. If you gotta think like, imagine... No, that makes so much sense. Yeah, you look across the field or across the court and your opponents are all hunched over. You're like, oh, we got them. I did this as an adult in a Jiu-Jitsu tournament. I only competed a few times, but I won. When he gets this dude, he was not in my weight class, but whatever. That's another story. And it was brutal. We were going at each other and when we would have to stop because we go out of bounds, I would run back to my starting spot. And I was fatigued, but I wanted him to think like, oh, this guy's not getting tired, but I was dying because of that psychology. I mean, yeah, there's such a psychological warfare going, especially sports where you're going heads up against something like that, right? Yeah, because you get scared. You feel like showing weakness. Then you're done. Yeah, I wanted to... You remember when we brought up, you guys a little change of direction here, but I want to bring it up because I just saw it. And I want to have Doug and them confirm it, but I thought it was interesting. So you remember when we brought up the Southwest, their policy of... Well, they'll give a free seat to somebody who's too big to serve. Yeah. Now, when we had that conversation, we were kind of speculating like, oh, what's this going to be? One of the theories that I had is like, this is just a publicity stunt. It's going to piss off a certain part of people. Other people are going to be supportive of it. It's going to create... And it's all just a big way to spread their information. That was kind of my theory on it. Now, I couldn't prove that, but I just saw something recently that said that that has been a rule of... For a long time. For 30 years for that Southwest. Yeah, I knew that. Yeah, I knew that. So 100% that was a publicity stunt. Yeah, I know. It was a rule, but then they started to put it out more, you're right, maybe, like, no, we're going to start to do this. So I don't know... So they weren't charging for two seats? So that was... So you could have done what you've heard recently. You could have done that 20 years ago. But they did it very quietly. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course. And so the theory is that they're doing it to put pressure on all the other airlines. But at the end of the day, it was all a publicity stunt. If it's a rule that they've had for 30 years, and now it's making its way in articles all over the place, it was brilliant. Either that or looking at demographics. Like, if we get all the big people over here, you know what I mean? We're in a crowd. No, I think it was purely... I mean, because no matter what, it's a losing strategy for any airline business model. It's not a smart business strategy. No matter how you draw it up. That's true. So the only thing that makes it smart is if it's a massive publicity run. And that's exactly what it was. They've been doing it for 30 years. I wonder, though, did they... Lots of free marketing. I got to think about this for a second. Did they put it out? Or did somebody drum it up and make a click-baity article, and then it circulate? Yeah. Was there an incident? What you got, Andrew? Yeah, so basically, a viral TikToker was a plus-size-style content creator, self-identified, fat solo traveler. Her name is Kimberly Garris. She's the one who detailed the policy and basically brought attention to it. See? It wasn't in Southwest. It was someone else trying to drum it up. You think she works for Southwest? You think she got paid? I mean, if I'm Southwest, I have that, and I'm a marketing guy, and I go, hey, here's what we want to do. It's like, remember when the iPhone, remember the old... I think Apple was one of the first people to do this. That was so brilliant. When they... supposedly somebody who was working with Apple left their new generation at the bar. Yeah. Oh, that was vividly. Yeah. It's like, that Apple's behind that, but you use somebody else as the decoy of, like, they fucked up. There was a movie that did that. There was a movie that did that with that... It's a picture of that girl with that really weird smile and stare, and they had her go to professional sporting. Yes. That was for the scary movie, the Smile. Smile? Yeah. They paid a bunch of people to stand... And smile really weird in baseball games. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like stuff like that. I think it's smart. I do. I think that's such great... Wasn't there another one where there was like these weird silver monoliths that were just appearing everywhere? Yeah, we talked about that. Where are these from? I think... Yeah, I think that one was actually like a... I think it was a comedy show on Comedy Central. It was like these guys from Australia. I'm pretty sure that they were the ones responsible for that. But yeah, it was a total publicity stunt. Speaking of comedy, what did you guys think of Chappelle? Did we talk about this yet? It was good. I haven't seen it. I'm with Doug. I don't think it was his best. You know what? Chappelle... I think this is why I think he's the go. Not because... Although some of his specials or some of the funnies I've ever seen, he's so smart. He takes you on such a ride. And it's hard to... I like it when I can't really guess... What side he's on. Yeah, what their opinions are. Because they're so eloquently... He does that very well. He'll create a story. So I think that's why I think this was like a subpar one of his. I only felt like he did that once, maybe twice in the thing, where I feel like some of his shows, like you're on a ride the whole time. Yeah. He's pulling you left. He's pulling you right. You think he thinks this way. Then he hits you with it. It's like the whole thing is that, where I felt like he came out the gates with the transgender Joker out the gates. And so he opened with fire. Like I thought, oh, that was so weird. You had no idea he was going there. Yeah. I had no idea he was going there. So he took you on a ride rather. And you're like, oh, yeah. But then, to be honest, I felt like the rest of it kind of was flat. Compared to that. Like that was like, oh, I was like... Katrina and I started it. I was like, oh, this is going to be so good. This is off the chain. And we just started in the first three minutes. And I was like, oh, he opened with his fire. Like that was his best ride that he took you on. I felt like everything was... It's always, I mean, he's fired. You know who I'm getting at? Who I'm really liking is... What's his name, Shane Gillis? Is that his name? Yeah, Shane Gillis. He's hilarious. He kills me. I watched some of his older stuff. Kills me. I like Matt Reif right now. I'm on his stuff right now a lot. Is he the guy that plays the audience? Yeah, he works the crowd so good. Yeah, he works... He's that young kid. He's also the guy who got called out for some like sexist memory. Oh, I know. He made the joke about a girl having a black eye and something like that. So he made like a domestic violence like joke. And so they came after him and then he did a fake... He did an apology and then linked it to like special helmets for people like... He was so bad. So he like doubled down on it. So I like him. So I'm all about it. I feel like some of these comedians coming up are definitely more emboldened now. Totally. Like kind of pushing back against some of the cultural things. You know what? People don't realize how important comedians are. Super important. To culture. They start it and then it allows everybody else to get a little more comfortable with it. That's what's so great about it. It's like they're the ones that can get away with really pushing... Saying anything. Saying anything and pushing the edge because they're under the umbrella of comedy. Societies need that. And what's great about that is it slowly eases people into like, okay, this isn't as bad as... Well, it has to point out the absurdities and the inconsistencies and, you know, like sort of like in a shocking way for you to be able to accept it. A lot of people don't want to hear it from certain voices and certain outlets, you know? And so if you hear it in a way that's somewhat cheeky and funny and, you know, a lot... It's received better. And so it really is. It's a masterful craft when you can get somebody who normally wouldn't listen to certain ideas to absorb them. What's the saying? Like, we know when the king has gone mad when he kills his jester. Because it's such an important... Like the jester was the one person that could make fun of the king. It was very important that that person existed. Well, because the propaganda arms right now are so strong. We're just getting inundated from everything else that wants to just entrench you in like just one way of thinking. Speaking of that, did you see... So what's his chip, Wilson? Chip Wilson is the founder of Lululemon. He got some pushback lately for publicly talking about their Lululemon's recent move into like more diversity, inclusiveness for the brand and stuff like that. Like really talking shit about it. Now he's no longer the founder. Like he sold a big part of his shares. What was not inclusive about this stuff before? Was it just the sizes? Yeah, the sizes, their marketing, everything. It was literally like he had decided we are going after thin, fit, healthy, 18 year old to 32 year old women is like that's our demographic. And we're all in on that. And obviously it's grown to be a billion dollar company over the last decade or whatever. And he exited I think at 2, 13, 15. He still has, I think, I don't know if he has majority shares. I know he has a lot of shares and so he has some say but not much. And so the companies came out and like said, we don't stand by anything he says, he's been taking shots at them for. He's saying that they should be more. They shouldn't be there. Yeah. Like what are you doing? Like this is like your commercials aren't representing the healthy, fit people. That's our market. That's who we went after. Right? Let's see what it says. Oh wow. He called out the company ads for featuring people who he said appeared unhealthy, sickly and not inspirational. They're trying to become like the gap. Everything to everybody. And I think the definition of a brand is that you're not everything to everybody. You've got to be clear that you don't want certain customers coming in. I mean, he's not wrong. Yeah. That is kind of what a brand is supposed to. I mean, because if a brand doesn't do that. This way of competition too to serve other swaths of the population and other demographics. Otherwise it gets watered down. Why does a company have to be everything? Yeah. You know why can't they just. Whatever happened to people doing this? I don't like that company. I'm not going to buy from them. Exactly. And also like, okay, like there's a need for this group of people. Let's let's provide them. That's why I always think it's funny when somebody. I mean, I guess that this is the entrepreneurial brain. Right. Like when somebody gets mad about that, I'm like, dude, that's so dumb to get mad about it. That should be. Opportunity. Opportunity. Go create one. I'm so glad Lulu is not going to dominate that space too. Now I can go offer it to people that are plus 24 size. But that same person is going to complain about monopolies. You know, it's like it's so inconsistent. That's interesting to me. You're right. The same person would complain about monopolies too. Same. How funny is that? But you have to do it for everybody. You have to try and sell to everybody, but you can't have everybody. But you have to try to sell to everybody. But as soon as you get to everybody, then we're going to cut you off. Speaking of, speaking of which, you sent me that video of that dude trying to break down Patrick Bet David. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. How his insurance company they had before was a scam. And the evidence that he used was how, how small of a percentage the people that made like $800,000 a year was versus the people that made almost no money. So I'll have to make sure, Andrew, you get the clip from me because in this video, he actually clips the breakdown. So someone got a hold of, so if you don't know. He sold it or something. No, no, no. He still has that company. Oh, yeah. A big part of how Patrick Bet David makes his money is through insurance sales. Right, okay. That's a majority of his, I mean, he's made value tame in and his podcast or anything else he's made million. But he made hundreds of millions of his insurance business, right? So he's grown his, and maybe Doug can look up how many employees he has or how many people are quote unquote underneath him in his insurance business. But they, so this guy, and it was Coffee Zilla did it first. Well, I'm not, I'm like, this guy sometimes does good stuff, but sometimes he annoys me. Did a breakdown on him and basically showed, you know, what percentage of people make, you know, what, how much money, right? Okay. So the point is, is that the majority of people lose money with, or excuse me, make almost no money with the company. He tried to show that it was a scam. It was a pyramid scheme. Like this is a pyramid. And here's a, this is a definition of a pyramid scheme when, you know, 99% of the people make no money and only 1% of the people make most of the money. And it's like all these people are starving or making less money than a McDonald's employee. Such a terrible. It paints a really nasty picture of how the business model is. Now, I sent it over to you because I've, we've talked before about, okay, if we were ever to scale beyond what we're currently doing and we were to open this up to coaches and trainers and we were to do some sort of an affiliate program, that's exactly what our model would look like and it would be inevitable. If you, if we allowed. Yeah, cause they're not employees or contractors. Yeah, right. If we allowed trainers and coaches to sell our programs and they made a, a percentage of that. And then we get a percentage of that ourselves and we did some sort of a tier where. Less than 1% would do 90% of sales. That's right. Most there would be a very, very small percentage of outliers that actually make a lot of money doing that. And then the most people would try and do it and would make a little bit of money here and there. And so you could totally look, make it, make it look like, oh, these guys are running a pyramid scheme. No, that's just how a lot of, that's how a lot of this insurance business in general is like that. It's crazy how he was trying to use that to paint. I was thinking I was going to show like crazy evidence. That was his evidence. You know, 0.1% makes this much. I mean, I would have guessed that. It works for people though, because people see that. And it looks so. How much money people make does not tell you whether or not, or don't make, does not tell you whether or not they're bad or good. We didn't say that. So it is an MLM and they have 20,000 licensed agents. So I don't know a lot about this company, but if you're doing an MLM, you're probably offering an opportunity. So sign up with our company. You have to become licensed. You can sell our products and then you can make a commission. So it is an MLM, bro. But MLM is not, is a legal, very heavily scrutinized. Well, let me make a point here. That's not a pyramid scheme. Let me make a point here with that. So you get 20,000 people who go out and get an insurance license. Most of those people are not even going to try to sell. They get sucked up into the excitement about how much they could make, but they don't actually go out and do anything. A bunch of people are going to go out and do it. And I've been in the life insurance business myself for like 20 years. I actually, when I was like 27 years old, I went and I got a license for life insurance because somebody told me that it was a great way to make money. I went out. I talked to people. I got these leads. I mean, I tried to sell life insurance. I couldn't do it back then. And so I didn't make any money, but I made a choice that I was going to try to build my own business. So I went and got licensed and I tried to sell life insurance, but I didn't make any money. So I failed at the business. Since then, I went and I had created a life insurance agency and I had success, but I tell you, if you work for a life insurance company, in fact, regular life insurance companies like New York Life or any big life insurance company, they're going to have, I don't know about New York Life, but a lot of insurance companies have independent agents. So you can come. You can be an independent agent. You have to get licensed. That's on your own dime. You can sell for the company, but you only make when you actually bring in business. Yeah, it's all up to you. And the vast majority of people for all these massive insurance companies don't make anything. And so his thing's no different than any other insurance company, except he's in the public eye. Yeah, yeah. So is a pyramid scheme the same thing as a Ponzi scheme? Is that the same name? Well, no, no, no. Ponzi scheme's different though. A pyramid scheme is the same thing as an MOM. Well, no, no, no. That's not true. A pyramid scheme is more like a Ponzi scheme. Yeah, that's what I thought. An MOM is actually a legitimate business structure. So think about a pyramid scheme or a Ponzi scheme. No, no. It's very different. A Ponzi scheme, the people at the top get paid because people from the bottom are bringing in money. And you have to keep bringing people in. And typically there's no real value of a product being offered. Right. See, look, here you go. That's young. So the traditional MOM programs are legal because there's a real product that's being sold through the channel. Fraudulent pyramid schemes, like Ponzi schemes, are legal but often try to disguise themselves. Nothing. Yeah, and they're not really selling anything. No. It's all just to get people in. Yeah, so a classic one would be like, hey, Adam and Justin, give me your money. I'm going to guarantee you a 20% return. And you're like, pfft, done. The way I give you a 20% return is I sign more people. I mean, it's just so you know, it's a very fine line you're skirting here. They're not that far off. The difference with the MLM is you're actually offering a product in a service. That's a big difference. I think a massive difference. I mean, it is. I mean, think about like Bernie Madoff, right? Yes. So he had these fake securities and things. That's a Ponzi scheme. That's a pyramid scheme as well. Yeah, that's a total Ponzi scheme. You're totally, you are blatantly robbing from people. This is structured in a way where you could make money and there is a product. Of course. But it's still a... Oh, it's a terrible... I wouldn't go into it on my own. I mean, some people make a lot of money. I've met a guy who made like $200,000 a month from like New Skin. New Skin? Yeah, New Skin. Wow. I knew somebody who made a lot of money with M-Way. Oh, yeah. So you can do it. So you can buy toothpaste. Yeah. But these businesses typically thrive on bringing in recruits. That's exactly it. And that's the part that's so distasteful about it. I agree. Is that... I agree. Like the model is structured where it's like, I really don't give a fuck that Justin doesn't sell any of my programs. As long as he signs up for my... As long as he gets ten other trainers bought in because they got to pay $500 to get in through our certification and to get all these things. And so as long as he goes and recruits ten of those people who think they're going to go sell one program or, you know... Listen, this is why I've always had a... It's a lot closer to like schools. This is why all of us have had a bad taste with the coaching programs. You know, we're going to make trainers this and that and whatever. And you know, you go into these rooms... That's how these masterminds are built. Exactly. By the way, which is like an MLM. It's not a Ponzi scheme. It's legit. They get a service. But they're very much so structured in an MLM type of structure. I fucking hate that. I know. Did I tell you? And by the way, I'm a big fan of Patrick by David. I love the content he puts out. I love this book. I have a lot of nice things to say on him. Not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of the MLM. I agree with you. There's a lot of ways to make a lot of money. It just doesn't feel right. So I told you when Doug and I, we went to an internet marketing kind of like this. I don't know what you would call it, but it was similar to that. And we signed up for a mastermind. We paid a lot of money for that mastermind. And I remember when we sat with this small group of people that paid a lot of money, I remember I looked around and I said, oh my God, everybody sucks. There's like two of us here who probably are going to do something. And everybody else is just paying the money to one of the partners. But in the defense of the mastermind, they didn't know who was going to sign up. They didn't know if they're going to be successful or not. And we got value. So we paid for value through the mastermind. Yeah. But a lot of them are structured in a way where it's like, I get the thousands of dollars from you to come to attend my mastermind. Then let me teach you how to make your own masterminds. Yes. Let me teach you how to do the same thing that I just did to you. And that's just this vicious cycle of, and they all justify it because when you get these groups of 10, 50, 100 people that are paying for these mastermind groups, is there's always one other hungry entrepreneur who's willing to invest in themselves, i.e. the two of you knuckleheads, who meet another one who is the same way too. And you justify, you go, I made connections. I made a connection with Doug. Let's just look at the structure of the Twin Flames cult. Yes. Okay. And you will see like a direct parallel to what he's talking about. Well, that is an MLM right there. Yes. But that's another level. That's a cult. That's what these, hey, they're getting these diverse people. Yes. If you watch these videos. It's the same. Okay, come on. This is why I couldn't do it. There's a line. I'll tell you what the line is. If you go to an MLM and they have a real product, this is how you know you're in a cult. When the leader starts to have sex with everybody. Every time. That's stupid. That's a fine one. But also the Twin Flames, it was legit just MLM style. But then he realized he has a tax advantage if they turn themselves into a religious entity. Oh, yeah. That's right. And so, and they deliberately said that, you know. I've shared this multiple times with you guys. This is where my conundrum. And other people that have talked about the business and that have tried to get us to move this direction. And none of us would ever want to do this. And there's literally somewhere between six and $9 million a year on the table for us to hold these types of events. But when you know the statistics on the success of the entrepreneur and when you sell this dream, the part that I couldn't handle would be and how they all do these, including PBD and all these other MLMs is you host these massive events where 100, 200 people get there and you're hyping them all up about what they need to do and what this, and the reality is if you've got 100 people in that room, less than 10 of those fuckers are ever going to make the money you're talking about. And would they have done it without them? Anyways. And those, and all it really does is pull, the 10 that would have actually done it, just all you did was you got those 10 people who would have found a way anyways. And then you highlight those people as they had success for coming through your group because even if they never met you, they would have figured that out. Do you know how much of a recruitment? How much respect that would have for an event like that if I sat in a crowd and the guy got up there and said, all right, here's the truth. There's a thousand of you. You're going to make it. Three of you are going to make it. And you're going to make it. Everybody else is not going to make it. I would do that. If I ever did something like that, I would 100% come out the gates with like... And you'd still get buy-in because people are like, that's me though. I'm the guy that's going to make it. I mean, to me, that's the only way you could have integrity in doing something like that is literally coming out with it. I would. I would come out with it and just be like, here's the deal. Like there is 100 of you. 99% of you. Yeah. There's three of you that are actually going to take what I have to teach today and are actually going to excel with it. And I hope I get to sit down and meet each one of you, but the rest of you are going to fuck off. That's what's going to happen. You're going to have burnt this $10,000. Just as right. Everybody thinks they're the three. Yeah. Oh, that's me. I feel bad for all these assholes. Yeah. That's so funny. Dude, I got to tell you. So we're going to take a turn here, but did you see that this kid hold? Was he 13 years old? Just broke the world record on Tetris. What? Yeah. So did you know Tetris? I love Tetris dude. Okay. So do you know that that Tetris speeds up? That gets hard, man. It's speed. Not only does it speed up, but there really isn't a last level. Do you guys know this? I just learned that keeps going indefinitely. It keeps going until the, it's a 13 year old. A 13 year old broke the world record. It keeps going until the algorithm, so it was faster, faster, faster, until the algorithm gets overwhelmed and then you get what's called, I think a death screen, where the screen freezes. Wow. And this kid did it. He got to the death screen? They call it a kill screen. And it was like level 157 or something like that. What? Yeah. How fast that is? I've gotten like, I don't even know what level I've got. How do you do that? The music speeds up. It must be like, how do you do that? So he did a level 155, I think he did it. And it took him, I don't know how long it took him. How wild. That's wild. You know, talk about the genetic gift of your brain to do that kind of math that fast, because you're, that's all it is, right? It's math. It's geometry, yeah. So what's his job going to be? I mean, hopefully he finds a way to put it to work. I don't know. Architecture? Drone operator? Yeah. That sucks. Yeah, I don't know. What kind of math, I mean, a little kaleidoscope job would require that kind of skill. What'd you say? Kaleidoscope maker? I don't understand. All the shapes, bro. Come on, guys. There's too many levels in there. Stay with me. His jokes are way too far ahead sometimes. Too far ahead. You're going to stand up. All right. Fine. I give up. That's crazy. All right, so Jess, I want to ask you about this. Did we talk about the billionaire bunkers that are being built? Did we bring those up? We brought up Zuck. Zuck's bunk. Are there more? There's a hundred in something. You guys didn't know that? There's like a look up how many billionaires in the last like three years have built bunkers. It's like a lot. Is it like the middle of the country? Or like, is it all islands? Zuck was like Hawaii. Well, he's in Hawaii. Yeah. He's in like a place to build your bunker. No, I think it's a safe place. Really? It's a meteor. I would think in the middle of Montana or like Oklahoma or something. Did you bring up the meteor? No country. No country who's looking to take us over or bomb us is going to go like Oklahoma. Yeah. Well, I don't think I'm worried about that. There's two people out in the middle of nowhere. He might know something we don't know, but there's a lot of bunkers being built. Yes. Look, how many? I thought I heard like 120 or 130. Well, here's another thing. The bunker business is booming. Well, here's another thing that'll scare you. So, you know how an election season, we're in election season right now, election year. In October, there's always what's called the October surprise. That's when they'll each side will drop their heaviest hammer to try to mess with the other side because it's not enough time. Right. Last one was supposed to be Hunter Biden's laptop, which didn't pan out. Yeah. They blocked that. But anyway, there's always this like October surprise. The NASA just came out. October 5th, we're going to get, there's an asteroid that we lost track of that's going to be really, I swear to God. Armageddon for October surprise. Jesus. Oh, meteor. What you got, Doug? 15 billionaires have started building bunkers, but apparently that's not true according to some fact checker. Who? Is it snow? Not snow, but you know, I never believe these fact checkers. It might have been just million. How many bunkers are being, or how many of these guys are building these bunkers? I don't know if it was billionaires. Could you imagine though, do you have like a full thought process of this? Like if you had a bunker, let's say you had an amazing one, right? And you set it up, like it could filter air, there's nuclear fallout. You're fine. You're underground. Nothing touches you. You've got enough food and water, and you got sewage system and everything. That'll last you six months. Okay. Okay. So now you survive for six months. Yeah. And you get out of the bunker. Really? Now what? Now what? Like, would you want that? Think about that. All right, kids. Now that we've been going crazy for six months and whatever, who knows what that's going to be like? Well, maybe. Now let's go out the top. I guess you're hoping that like, it wasn't as much of a catastrophe. Like maybe it was just the fact that like, you know, society lost its mind. Everybody was like, sort of going back and reverting back to like, where there was looting and there was like, you know, like pandemonium. Well, we thought it was like chaos. And then, and then you're able to weather that and come back out. We talked about this all fair, right? What you, your hope is that it's just like a nuclear bomb, right? That went off and then in 30 to 60 days or what like that, it clears out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what you got to hope, right? Is that it's something like that? Not something crazy. I don't know, man. I'd be like, would I want to be that guy in there? First of all, you're locked in there for six months, three months, even 30 days. I mean, you'd rather be that guy who caught the bomb, you know? Huh? You'd rather be that guy than the guy who caught the bomb. I mean, I feel like it'd be torturous. Imagine living in this room for 30 days, just us right here. Oh no. 30 days. I'm not even saying six months. No. A full month. Just us. Oh, Murray you guys. Yeah. I love you guys. But after five days, it would be good. You can find. I don't know about that. I guess you know, it's funny you say that from our position of where we're at now. But if it was life or death, you probably have a whole new perspective. You'd be so grateful that we bonded together. We survived. I bet you you would have a whole different. We're all married. Stupid. No, but I mean. Three days in, right? I mean, it's out day four. So what'd you guys do for three days? I don't want to talk about it really. I mean, your perspective is coming from a place of privilege right now where you have all these, all these amenities, all this luxury, all this nice stuff. But it's like, if the whole world is under fire and you happen to be with three or four of your friends, you happen to be smart enough to build a bunker and we survived. And we're a very small percentage of people that survived. I bet you would have a different. What would you need in your bunker to not lose your mind? A gym. Yeah, for sure. For sure a gym. That would be the only. So I don't even think that. Okay. Think about this again. The whole world is getting burned up in flames right now. What we're probably spending 99% of our time is like, when we get out, how are we rebuilding our families, our society? What's the first thing we do? Do you know how to build this? Can I build like, where are we going to get? I mean, planning. That's what I think. I think 34 seven, you go crazy. I think I would. I would need all the skills of like, okay, at that point, I know how to crochet things. Whatever. Hopefully we have access to YouTube still. Justin would be the one. I'm needing everybody's sweaters. You know, like I just learned this, you guys got some data on bunkers. So this guy, Gary Lynch is the CEO of a company in Texas called Rising S company. And they started in a warehouse in 2018 when they built bunkers. And he said, after the year 2020, the sales have spiked a thousand percent. And he went in mid 2022, fielding less than a hundred inquiries a day. No, in a month to fielding thousands. Wow. In a month. He sold five bunkers in a single day in February. Oh, the price ranges aren't bad. 70 to 240 grand. Hmm. That's not bad. No. Wasn't there this service that was like, it was like a, a religious apocalyptic service. And they said, what? They said something, you give us this money and then when the world ends, we'll come and help you. Like, and you write a contract like literally that's when the world ends. That's a punty scheme. That's a punty scheme right there. Wow. Because it's a world end. The contract. We'll be there. Sorry. Go find a lawyer. Yeah. Take me to court. Yeah. I mean, anyway, I got to tell you guys of all the partners that we work with, the one company that my family uses the most to the point where I don't know if I should say this on air. LMNT sends us a lot of, a lot of product. Yeah. A lot of that goes with my family. I might, as soon as I give people a box of that, they are like, give me more. Well, share the story about your sister. You're telling me off there today. My sister was doing whole 30, which is basically a whole food diet. Right. She cut out a lot of processes. Yeah. All of us are big family. Yeah. And she, she messaged me, no, FaceTime me about two weeks into it. And I'm like, I'm a detox period. You know, come out and we detox. All right. What do you mean? She's like, well, I got, I'm dizzy or getting headaches. It's got low energy. Like I know you're supposed to detox. When you're like, do you even listen to my show? You're my sister. I'm like, you're not, that's not what happens. Detoxing is not what happens. I mean, there's a herksheimer effect and I talked about dying bacteria. So that's not what's happening with you. I said, you're low sodium. She's like, what do you mean? I said, well, A box of element and she elementy and she told me the next day very next day gone She's like I feel so she's like I feel so stupid that it was sodium. I feel so much better Yeah, so I send a couple more boxes That's why I think it's such a great partnership is because I do think that the community that we talk to like the general population You probably don't need to add salt to your diet Yeah, all the package things if you're if you're health conscious and you're you're doing your best to eat whole foods And very much so that could be a missing component You have no idea and and it could be brain fog could be headaches could be low energy Like you'd be surprised like the symptoms that you might be feeling you may have had no idea. It's just simply sodium You need to fix. Yeah, so so The three-part train the trainer series is going to be coming out starting the 15th of this month And we're still signing people up. Uh, it's free and we're teaching trainers how to build More successful businesses. We're not charging anything. We talked about this rolling the pog Not a Ponzi scheme You are going to leave with very valuable In fact, we picked the most valuable things in those three days that we're going to teach you sign up. It's mind pump trainer dot com All right another reminder in four days I'm going to be teaching trainers and coaches how to build better businesses sign up at mind pump trainer dot com All right back to the show First question is from eber heme j 20 In episode 22 39 you discussed the timing of protein consumption Do the same principles apply to water hydration? I typically hit my water and take goals by consuming half a gallon before noon Is that adequate for hydration if i'm only drinking a few cups for the rest of the day Okay, so uh, i'll answer the specific question, but first let's kind of answer the general one, which is First let's reference the study. So the study showed that If you consumed a large bolus of protein in one sitting that the amino acids would still be get you still get utilized For things like recovery and building Um, even if you consumed it all at once versus it's a spread out throughout the whole day So the the argument used to be that if you consume too much at once That a percentage of it would just get turned into energy Through glycolysis right glyconeogenesis. Sorry, which is turning it into um into glycogen Well, they found that the study showed that that's not true You could do a lot of your protein at once and not have to split it up Now there's limitations to that like digestion and how you feel So I don't think this is very practical for a lot of people But it did show you could do that with protein protein is not water The water you consume your body uses and utilizes very quickly and it's in and out of your body Very fast now if you drink a lot of water all at once will it meet hydration needs? Yes, because if you're slightly dehydrated you'll make up for it relatively quickly although there is a limit and I know this because When you look at athletes that try to make weight and this is extreme, right? But they'll they'll dehydrate themselves in extreme ways in ways that people normally wouldn't right? They'll put themselves in a sauna They'll sweat you know out a bunch of weight trying to cut five ten fifteen pounds even To weigh in to go do a match or something like that and when they rehydrate They know they need to do it slowly if they go all at once they could get sick. It can be really bad So that so there's a limit to what you can do with that nonetheless What'll probably happen if you don't drink a lot of water and then drink most of it Is you're going to go through a period of a little dehydration and then being hydrated versus having it throughout the day How does it work though that our because our muscle bellies are a massive storage of water also So you're not it's not you'll be slightly dehydrated than hydrated because what'll happen You know, you know, what's interesting is you get we'll go back to evolution the with evolutionary theory the protein study makes sense because The way we hunted it wasn't like you could kill a small animal every three hours and eat it It was like I killed a buffalo We ate the hell out of it and then we got away for another successful kill Water is not like that humans always live next to water always. We could not live far away from water It just didn't work for us. We had we you you can only go how long without water versus food It's like a a drastic difference. So Um, I don't think that's a good idea Now this person half a gallon before noon then glasses throughout the rest of the day hairs You're probably okay. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, if someone's like I need to drink a gallon a day And I'll do that all in a two hour period Uh, probably not a good idea You'll probably suffer negative negative effects at both sides, right of the drinking too much water Throwing off electrolyte It also would really depend on what what you're doing in those periods of time too to put the demand on the height On the bottom a hundred percent. That's very true. Like what if before noon? They're sweating their ass off right a bunch of you know, right exercise or something Right, right, or you get your workout done early in the morning You drink your full half gallon you probably find and then the rest of the day you're pretty sedentary Not gonna be a problem. Now. I know people who do this on purpose So I when I would train surgeons they when they would do these long procedures. I train they don't have to pee Yeah, I train this one woman. So this is I mean I try and do this Like because that's why I don't like working out at late late at night was because it's so hard to work out Not drink any water And so I really try and front load my water and do as best I can to drink as little as possible Otherwise you pee otherwise several times a night. Yes When you do that you still wake up at night to pee just once no if I if I Can discipline myself to really shut the water down towards the back half of the night Um, I can get a full nice rest. It's just hard. It's hard It's like it's it's hard for me to have no water Say after five o'clock at all or any liquid whatsoever That's tough for me to do that and so inevitably I end up having at least a glass or two or something of something And then that will inevitably get me up at least once maybe twice and then for sure if I do like last night Last night I train later than I normally would like at five or six o'clock at night And I I drank like, you know a liter of water or whatever like that and then I'm up three times to go But you need it because you're working out. Yeah, like I said, I trained this one woman She was a remarkable surgeon. She did what's called a Whipple procedure, which is like a 10 hour surgery so you're in You don't leave you can't leave and I'm like, what do you got to do if you Like we've got to pee it's like, oh, I don't drink a water like leading up to it because otherwise you're screwed You can't leave once you're scrubbed in and it's a very delicate procedure. So that's gnarly Next question is from Lisa Carr lack Is there much evidence for the benefits of the meat and fruit diet? Especially now in light of the new research on max protein utilization Have any of you guys ever tried it needs to call us paleo? I mean, that's what paleo used to be used to be uh was meat Maybe nuts in there, but you would throw some nuts in there things that you can eat raw Yeah, like and they throw sweet potato in there too. That's later. It used to be no starch whatsoever the original Oh, really? Yeah seeds, uh even yep. No seeds either. Yeah, it was like it was like some nuts Okay, so here's the value of a diet like this And it's not for the average person, but um, it's low in food intolerances So if you're somebody that suffers from Lots of reactions. Maybe you have autoimmune issues. So your body's a bit hyper Vigilant or hyper reactive to different foods The foods that you're least likely to be reactive to are fruits and meat Vegetables you'll be reactive to Grains you'll probably be reactive to dairy reactive to Even eggs uh and eggs will be reactive, but meat is very low in reactive, especially red meat very bioavailable Yeah, and and uh fruit because now people ask why Plants create defense like an offering. Yes. They want you to eat predators Yeah, they want you to eat the fruit because the fruit is what's got the seed and you eat it You poop out the seed and then you make more plants Uh vegetables oftentimes. No, they don't want you to eat like the stalk or the leaves because that'll kill the plant So they create and there's a hormetic effect. By the way, those of you that can eat vegetables Don't listen to what i'm saying and say oh, I should not be vegetables You don't react to vegetables What you're getting from those compounds that like these carnivore, you know Advocates say is bad for you you actually get a hormetic response. It's good for you It's the same thing with exercising. Yes, otherwise. Yeah, because honestly like The recovery is where you're getting all the benefits. You know the actual Insult is you know the exercise, but it's necessary for you in order to grow Now now for athletic performance unless you're somebody that is hyper reactive to food and this is What you can eat and not be reactive in which case it'll be a great diet for you But for everybody else, this is not a great muscle building or athletic performance diet like Try to perform with the carbohydrates from fruit Is tough starches do a better job like rice Potato just does a better job. You're gonna have more glycogen. You got more power. Lots of studies have been undone on this I've experienced it myself clients Have experiences so unless you're one of those people that's hyper reactive Uh, I don't think this is a now the average person will get healthy eating this probably it's better than the Standard american diet. It really has to do with adherence, right? If it's all these diets Is is this something that you can do forever? Is it and and enjoy doing that? And then the other thing to look at is Whatever diet is that i'm following it if it's if it's limited What what do I lose out on nutrient wise because I've limited that right? So if you're gonna do a diet like carnivore or vegan or paleo You won. Okay. Is this something I like and I could do forever. Okay. Check that box. Yes. I like it I love just me and I can just eat that. Okay. Well, what am I missing out on that could either hinder performance or what? micronutrients am I not gonna do that might not that might support my hair my nails my energy all these other things You have to look at the diet and go like what is it missing that? I'm now not getting and be aware of the potential uh, you know downstream effects of Not getting whatever said nutrient is I think adherence and that are the two most important things What's interesting with always fascinates me about this is that for most of human history? The foods that people avoided eating were the ones that would just kill them So a diet and the for most of human history was poison. Eat everything else as long as not poison Everything else, but now we're in a place where we can get water. I mean, it's drink beer. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Yeah, that's a hundred percent true people would drink beer fermentation process just to kill offload It was less likely to have, you know Pathogens but uh, so it's an interesting one for me You can get away with it But if unless like I said you're one of those people like like for what why next question is from devin b baker For people just getting started like myself. What makes maps so effective? How do we understand when to change it up? I'd like to know the science of how it works Maps programs are effective for the same reason why Really good coaching Programs that are developed by strength coaches or other experienced coaches are effective and that's because it's based on a combination of experience and science You have to have both if you're going to write a good workout program I'll give you a great example a study just came out Lay norton just talked about it on strength training and in the study they showed that training close to failure resulted in less Strength gains than training Way below failure but doing more sets so the study was comparing strength And so he's like and he's trying to explain it and then underneath it. I commented it said The problem with these studies is they're done for like 18 weeks And yep, uh within the realm of reasonable Um, most things work with strength training Nothing works forever So that's why you have so many contradictory studies going to failure builds more muscle and strength Wait a minute this one over here shows that Going away from failure and doing more sets and then this oh this one says low reps. That's one says high reps This one says Lifting with speed is better. Oh, this one says time under tension is better They all work the body stops it really responding if you do the same thing For a long period of time So and that's you don't learn that from studies you learn that from experience So the maps programs that's what we put in there, but there's a lot of moving parts So when you're you're really looking at I mean imagine going to school and and learning from a teacher who has their degree And is very intelligent knows how to teach the subject whether it be math language, whatever it is But as fresh out of college and is now teaching students for the first time And then you have a teacher who's been teaching for 40 years That same subject and has taught it to hundreds if not thousands of students And learned other things other than the the the formula and what they needed to know Like a lot. There's a lot of of our peers that understand the studies and the formulas the same way that we do There's not as many trainers and of our peers that have not only Understand it from the studies the schooling, but then also have trained thousands of people And have now learned to tease out like behavioral stuff and go Oh, well, we know what the study says That here's a range of sets or reps or exercises that are ideal for the maximum results But then we also know that 80 percent of people Fall off here or don't do this or get hurt when they do that or or this is too long of a time period Where people only have slotted this much and they're you're only going to keep their attention for this long That's right. So what what you see with the math program by the way, this isn't isn't a phenomenal just for beginners It's phenomenal for anybody who's never really followed a good program Or maybe have just followed their own program or followed somebody else's program The reason why we've had so much success is that everybody across the board No matter how experienced or not experienced you are sees phenomenal results from math And that's just because we have trained a plethora of people in all age ranges all experiences And when we create things and we write programs, we don't just factor the science in we also factor in our experience Are you gonna feel after you're done accomplishing this workout and then the combination of the exercises one before the other and then You know and that again, it's it's it's points back to like earlier in in the conversation. We're talking about you know, like Predicting a lot of these things ahead of time. I also think that And this is why we knew we had a business on our hands Is for some weird reason A majority of the people in our space are Are speaking to or writing programs for a very niche A population and a very small percentage of the population They're they they speak to themselves or other fitness professionals where that is not our experience Our experience is with general population And so we come from a place of like this is going to help most people like when we write something we go like This is going to be best for most people Where a lot of the the fitness professionals in our space They have written what works for them or you know work for their their athletes or another terrible program Yes, it's okay. I mean I'll stand by this all day long 90 plus percent Of the workout programs in the market are had neither science nor experience or pure garbage just they Slap together exercises together make it look cool And the goal is can we make it hard and make it exciting a bunch of ice cream flavors? It's just A little inside joke there great It's uh, it's just pure garbage. Okay Probably 5% I would say are based on real science and these are the ones that are popular in strength sports The reason why they're good is because you perform your powerlifting your olympic lifting or whatever like A program sucks tangible evidence. Yes the the other 5% are based off of Science and experience those are very hard to find there's very few of them That are out there So it wasn't that hard to write a program that was really good It was better than the other ones because we're not competing with Really good, but I'll give you an example of what you were talking about adam You were mentioning, you know, like like all the things you need to consider. Okay If you look at all the studies on Uh rep ranges low reps moderate reps high reps Um, and there's different ways to phase your workouts I'm just gonna stick to reps because you could also do it with time periods Sets volume types of actually I could I could go and run down a list and just confuse everybody But let's stick to rep range. Okay. Let's compare Uh workouts or phases with low reps moderate reps high reps You won't find a single study that shows that it's better or worse To mix the rep ranges up in workouts throughout the week versus Sticking to a rep range for four weeks and then moving to another one Okay, it's all the same in terms of results However, it's not because here's what we've learned when you take people and you have them do low rep moderate rep high rep every single week They don't there's a different mindset a different feel that goes into each of those rep ranges when I lift low reps I'm not trying to feel the muscle. I'm trying to feel the movement I'm trying to maximize force. It's a completely different feel than when I'm going moderate reps and feeling the muscle and too many psychological shifts Which is a very different feel the high reps where I'm trying to make it through the damn set And it's stamina and I'm breathing hard. It's a completely different mindset and the average person If you you keep them in one of those because they learn it and by the week by by the second and third week They're performing that rep range better if you mix it up all the time They end up not really picking it up. It takes too long So yeah, the studies show it doesn't matter, but we know through experience that it matters. So that's just one example Next question is from omg. It's danie d What's your guys opinion on high intensity training like how mike menser preached and then how dorian yates perfected Oh, great follow-up question. I'll talk about this. I love this a bunch of times. I love this. Okay, so Mike menser his program was called heavy duty dorian yates at a program called blood and guts Mike menser's training was based off of the teachings of arthur jones the inventor Nautilus equipment and the theory was that Once you put this once you set the gears in motion for muscle growth Once you set the stimulus any further Signal would just in impair recovery slow down the process And so then the question was well, how do we know we send the signal effectively? Well Make it as intense as possible So what they did is they said okay instead of doing because at the time when arthur jones was was studying this It was in the late 60s. Sorry 70s. It was in the 70s At that time the popular bodybuilding workouts were like high volume So like arnold would do what are called double split routines 20 sets per body part get a pump You know, you know, he's going in there is doing biceps for 45 minutes to an hour type of deal Arthur jones said no One set to failure and beyond is what you do and then you leave it alone So now the body can grow and build muscle and that stuff And he tested it and what they found was in short periods of time it worked people built a lot of muscle a lot of strength This is true If you follow This style of training in a short period of time you will see rapid games By the way, this this question feeds perfectly into the last question. Correct I mean because this is what you're explaining right now is a perfect example of where just Just valid method. Yeah, and and then also that there's other variables. And so Yes, this is a tool. Yes, we could write a program That's 100 based off of that But then there's other factors that come into play and even if that does work It comes to a point where it doesn't work as well Three months later not even three months. So you'll get really fast short term results burn out real quick and then go backwards That's what ends up happening when the when most people Train this way is very very rare outliers like dorian who could continue training this way But this just that's just how it is for this kind of this is why it's not the predominant way of training But this is also why people will do it and then preach about it because they'll be like, oh my god I got more straight gains in three weeks than So, uh, but and by the way, it's not appropriate for most people taking a set to failure and beyond Is such an inappropriate level of intensity for most people because their form breaks down and it's just stupid I would never train 95 of my clients in this way even with me watching them. Okay nonetheless, um I Figured this out and we all got together and wrote a program that utilized and took advantage of This effect in a long program and it essentially alternates between this style of training and other styles of training With deload weeks to maximize its effects and minimize its negatives So if you want to be able to maximize those short term gains, but like stay away from what ends up happening Which is you hit a wall and go backwards maps anabolic advanced Utilizes failure training in this way But does it in a way to where you know, you do the program for three or four months and you don't end up But everybody experiences when they do this, which is Terrible terrible terrible burnout. Look, uh, we have a training course coming up Three days starts january 15th for trainers and coaches We're going to teach you how to get leads How to close big deals how to be more successful with your clients and more Go sign up at mind pump trainer to calm. It's totally free mind pump trainer Dot com you can also find all of us on social media on instagram Justin is at mind pump. Justin. I'm at mind pump to stephano and adam is at mind pump adam