 A very good evening to you and thank you so much for sticking to Y254 TV. My name is Sheryl Blessing and this is the Power Talk Show. Now this evening we want to discuss something that we are all hoping to get to as we prepare for marriage and as we prepare for long term life commitments. What are the dawns of conflict resolution within a marriage setup? Now we have discussed how to choose a perfect partner and what are some of the things that you should consider while you prepare for marriage. Today we want to find out in a marriage setup what should you avoid doing in cases of conflict. And joining me live in studio today I have Belinda Odiambo who is a transformational leader, a transformational coach and a speaker. Welcome Belinda. You look lovely this evening. Thank you so much. You're welcome. You look good too. Thank you. And right next to Belinda we have Naftali Osvunguiz who is a pastor and a certified mediator. Welcome Naftali. I feel happy, happy, happy appreciation. Ah! Thank you. Lucky to have you here. We were just trying to find out the origin of your name because it's a very unique name. In fact, my official names as in from my, my ancestral, I'm born in Naftali, but I'm baptized as Naftali Osvunguiz. Okay. Yeah. So now we have some enlightenment in that. Yeah. So thank you again for tuning into Y254 TV. I hope that you will enjoy this conversation this evening and I want to converse with you as well. I want to hear your opinions, your comments and your questions about the topic. So you can go on our social media platforms, which is at Y254, write us anything. If you have any feedback, if you have any questions, share your comments and we will sample that as we proceed with this conversation. Now I want us to address this matter in different segments because we have the aspect of finances. We have the values and we also have the families, the extended families and your other relatives and friends. So we can start by dealing with the values because this is who we are essentially when we come into unity with someone else. So how do you deal with conflict that arises from maybe different religious values, Naftali? How would you address conflict like that? Yeah. So I feel happy appreciation once again in regard to values and with respect to marriage and conflict. Indeed, you need to uphold the tests in arts and manners that are favored by a particular group. And now in particular, this group must belong to the married couples. So you have to consider those values so that in the event there is a conflict, you look at what the society says. What are your values? What are your upbringings? So that now when you make a recommendation or you make a determination, it will be in harmony with what you have been brought up with. Because marriage is not a one side thing, it's like it's a communal thing. So when you make a decision in marriage, make sure that you look at the interest of the other people. Your spouse or your ex and other members of the family, their family, your family. So you have to consider all these things and bring them into the limelight. So values and I mean here the ethical and moral principles must be articulated in a manner which is worthy of the calling of marriage. Yeah. I like that you've said marriage is a very communal thing. It's not just about you and your husband or you and your wife. It's you, the mother-in-law, the father-in-law from both sides and even the extended relatives, the aunts and the uncles who are factored into this marriage. Now Belinda, women are very, we are said to be very outspoken and loud when it comes to conflict. What are the things that you should really avoid? As a woman, let's say a young wife, you've just gotten married. It's been less than a year perhaps. And you realized that you have different religious values. Maybe you want to go to church every day or you want to baptize your children and your husband says, no, I do not feel like it's a necessity. What are the things that you shouldn't do specifically in a situation like that? Because we're usually triggered. That's the first response. What shouldn't you do so that you don't escalate the matter? First of all, thank you for that question. That's a very good question. But when you get into a marriage, you need to know what you're signing up for. So if you get in a marriage and you get to realize that your husband does not really like your religious practices or your spiritual practices, then the thing that you should avoid is don't force your values on him. Don't force your values on him. Because that will make him to be pushed to the wall and he might get agitated. So the best thing is to, if you're a Christian, pray over it, ask God to give you guidance so that by the time you're going to talk to him about it for the second time, you're not going there alone. You have the help of the Holy Spirit. And you know, if you do this and he doesn't give in, continue praying, continue praying, continue praying. But if you're not a Christian, because not everyone who is married is a Christian, we have Muslims, we have atheists, we have people who don't believe in anything at all. Other people believe in the universe, you know, all that. But even those people have values that govern them, yes? So make sure that you don't force your values on someone else. Try to sit them down when they are sober, not when they are angry. Sit them down and try to have a candid conversation. After trying and they're still not agreeing to your wishes, just go back and give it another try. But if in the event that now you two cannot agree, then look for someone else's senior than you in the society. Even before you go to your parents in law, because you know, when you go to your parents in law, they will take the side of the boy or the man. If you go to your parents, they'll always take your side. Yes. So sometimes it's better to go to someone who is senior and is very neutral in regards to this marriage. He or she is not affiliated in terms of blood relationship with either of you. So I think that is it. But as women, I know we are vocal, but we are not supposed to be over-vocal. Because sometimes our nature or our agitation might drive someone away from us. Thank you. And thank you for that. That's very well said. And you've even brought in the aspect of a neutral party who is senior, who can play a role of a mediator in your marriage. And I believe that's why people have a couple in their marriage setups or their wedding days, because that is someone who you can go to in terms of conflict. And in case you're watching us at home and you're wondering how we've gotten to marriage, we have different discussions. You can go on our YouTube page and you will find various conversations on things that you should talk about and address before you get to marriage. Because Belinda has brought in the aspect of understanding your partner's values and their mindset in different matters. So before you get into a long-term commitment, you should understand who this person is, then it's easier to solve conflict in the setup. Yes. Naftali, now in the case of a gentleman who's married to someone who's vocal. Belinda has told us ladies not to be vocal. And you have your own values that you've gotten from your upbringing. And this person probably had a different upbringing. And they're very vocal about their opinions in times of conflict. What would you recommend a man to do in a situation where they feel overpowered by the voice of the lady? Sure. Okay. Now, number one, because you are dealing with a conflict and a conflict here has risen from failure to keep that covenant between you and your partner. So what you need to do is to have that an honest and a sincere feeling for your partner or for your ex. Because in the same way you had the quality of being serious in your courtship and in your dating, is the same way that you should consider having a conversation which is anchored in sincerity. You must be open and truthful. You must speak things which are true statements, facts, so that if you speak the truth, you will unlock the truth from him or her. But if you speak lies, you will always unlock what lies from them. So have that quality of being open and genuine, not hypocritical. Go to things and speak what is it, because it is love. You see, when you are getting married, there is that strong, positive emotion of regard and affection for one another. So this is the spirit which needs to be persevered. But in the event now there is a conflict, look at the place where you have been from. Then try to breathe in and have a recollection. If you have a recollection and in the right way, you cannot bully them. But you will give them that opportunity, that possibility due to a favorable combination of circumstances to express themselves. Because you may find the thing which came in between and dismantled your cordial relationship is just a small thing. So given an opportunity, it will be worth. So love. Number two, when you are dealing with issues of marriage, you need to look at the legal advice. What does the law say? Because in fact, the law defines us. The constitution defines ourselves. We cannot define ourselves. We are defined under that body of fundamental principles or established presidents according to which we have acknowledged ourselves to be governed. Now, the honorable framers of the constitution of Kenya envisaged at 45 of the constitution which now deals with the family. And one says the family is the natural and the fundamental unit of society and the necessary basis of social order and shall enjoy the recognition and protection of the state, full stop. So you need to know that I have a family, but the state is with me. The state is for me. So let me do everything herein in accordance with what is written down according to the framers of the constitution of Kenya. Because if you do, then the opposite way, you may find yourself now in the corridors of justice. Now, in the event that there is a very big gap in that conflict, that is now when you seek that counselor or that consultant. These consultants will bring in alternative dispute resolution mechanisms so that now you will facilitate the two partners for them to make up their own determination. What do they want? Do they want to continue or do they want to discontinue? What is the best interest of the children? Because when you are married and you have children, the child, even if it is one, the child brings another equation. You cannot disorient yourself, then not thinking about the welfare of the children. Because the constitution again says in article 53, article 2, a child's best interests are of paramount importance in every matter concerning the child. So when you wanted to boot your ex, know that your ex is a half of your child, and you are the half of your child. So if you bashing your ex, you are basing your half. So mind, because the child must take that interest. So you cannot just come up and then you wanted to destroy everything. You must mind the children and do not give them the details. No. You deal with your ex, deal with your issues, do not communicate to your ex through your child. And that you've brought in, your first statement and you've linked it together with, there are so many other parties involved in this marriage. It's not just me and my man, it's you, your children, your grandparents, your family, all the extended people are connected while you make decisions. And you've given us very good points. First of all, operate from a point of purity and be genuine in your communication because that will ultimately determine the direction it goes and then consider the law because it's not just you, especially if you're married and you've signed a certificate, then you're bound by the government of whatever country you got married in. Now bringing it back to Belinda, you told us that you have to factor in both values, both people into the equation as you're solving conflict. What if you find two people in this generation, we have people who get into marriage at a very young age, how would you advise the family that let's say it's a young couple that they had conflict from the beginning, from their relationship, from the grassroots, they would fight and get physical. Maybe they got pregnant. Maybe. And then they got bound together or they just, because there's this couple that's very popular and they physically fight and now the girl is expectant and the boyfriend, it's a lot. We have so many cases of that. If these people get into marriage, how would you advise them to solve their conflicts? If they decide to go to the altar together, then that's okay. But even before they get to the altar, if a marriage is toxic and people are fighting in this day and age, people are not supposed to be fighting, that is GBV, you understand. But if they decide to get married, then first of all, as a coach, I would want each one of them to understand themselves. You should understand yourself even before you understand someone else. Because many a times, you point fingers, you blame other people for your problems. Yet, if you blame other people for your problems, you cannot solve them because you've given them the power. You can't sort it out. So get to understand yourself first. There are five types of personalities, according to Jan, to worldwide UEC. We have natural, we have guardians, we have creatives, we have connectors, and we have pioneers. And all these personality types, I'll come back to talk about them later. People have totally different. And you will find that most couples are opposites, like me, I'm very vocal. My husband is a quiet type, extremely quiet. So before I blame my husband as to why he's not talking to me, he came from work and he's just on his own world, he is in his own world, and you know, he's Louia, he likes earphones. I'm not against earphones. You know, Louia Naredi, I love him so much. You know, but I should understand that this is not me. I should not blame him when I'm bored because he's not talking to me yet. I know his personality very well. He's the quiet type. He's a guardian. Yet me, I'm a connector. I can get here, speak to everyone, collect everyone's number. The next time we are meeting, we are friends. So we are total opposites. So if we have conflicts every time and again, make sure that you understand yourself, then now you can venture into understanding this other person so that anytime he's doing something. You look at everything from his point of view before you start accusing him or accusing her. Because if you keep on blaming people, you will turn to give them the power and you never sort out issues. But then there's a second point that I want to bring in that never make any decisions when you're angry. Because the decisions that you make when you're angry, you decide to talk. And if you talk when you're mad, you might say things that you can never take back. They will hurt the other person. Inasmuch as you will apologize, they will say they've forgiven you. But the words that you said can never be erased. It is not like, you know, if there are thoughts, thoughts cannot be quoted. Silence, actually silence cannot be quoted when your mind keep quiet. Because sometimes if you speak, you will speak words that will make someone die. You avoid speaking when you're mad. Try to understand your partner, even as you try to solve out this issue. Another thing is that what makes us to have conflict sometimes in our marriages, especially if we have had previous relationships, is that I am dating, this is an example. I am dating Naftali, but or I'm married to Naftali, but I'm not married to Naftali alone. I'm married to Naftali plus 50 other people, you know, the people I dated before. So anytime Naftali does something that triggers my trauma, I remember the 50 people who, who yes, yes, so, you know, I'll be mad at him, but I'm also mad at 50 other people. So try to go back to your emotions and deal with those emotions first, even before you get married to someone. If you are not healed, heal first, but even if you're married and you're not healed, it's never too late for healing. Yes, you can heal and emotional healing is very possible. You don't just have to, there are so many tools that are used for emotional healing or trauma healing. And it's also being intentional about what you intend to do. To do, yes. If you want to improve, you will make the steps to improve. Yes. Like at home, you're getting what she's saying. And Naftali has also dropped some gems. I hope you're picking up some notes. If you're dating someone and you intend to get into a marriage with this person, know who they are, understand yourself and them so that you avoid some petty conflicts. Because sometimes I believe the conflict is because of lack of understanding or lack of proper communication. Now Naftali, you have been vocal about focusing on other people in your relationships. And Belinda gave us a very classic example of avoiding taking advice from your immediate in-laws because there's the aspect of being biased. But would you advise a young couple to even get advice from their friends, their aunties, their uncles, especially let's focus on the friends. Because we know sometimes people have friends who may not have the best interest at heart and people who are not even experienced but they just give you advice. Would you advise a young couple to take advice from their friends? Now in the event of a conflict, you can seek advice from friends or from relatives but it is limited. It is not every friend whom you meet can give you advice. It's not every member of the family who can give you the right advice. So if you need advice from friends, then look for friends who are experts, friends who are consultants, friends who are professionals. So if you get a professional and he's a friend, the better. But if you don't get these people, you yourself, you have that right or power to make decisions and give orders. Begin from yourself. Emancipate your mind. Look at the things which you need to do and which you don't have the compassion. Have that human quality in you. Because you see this is a conflict of a person whom you have lived with for either five years, 10, 15, you see, it's not an enemy, it's a person whom you have been a friend with. So can you think twice and just follow? Have that independent mind, have that self-governing mind, have that autonomy in you. Do not be controlled by outside forces. You know where the problem began. So you can use words, create them in the spiritual realm, say this marriage will work out, this relationship will work out, no one will dismantle this. Because the word of the mouth is very supreme. Your tongue. In the book of Psalms chapter 45 verse one, my heart is stirred up by Anopo theme as I recite my verses to my king. My tongue is the pen of a skilful writer. So David knew about the power of the tongue. So you as a husband or a wife who are now into lower heads in a conflict use your mouth to create now those cordial relations, to re-establish. Because there was a cordial relations which has been destroyed. Now use your tongue to re-establish. And that's why Belinda even brought in the aspect of being careful with your words. Because they can make or break your relationship. And I hope you have gotten that back at home because our guest last week also emphasized the value of the power of the tongue and your words. Because there's a lot of power in that. Now I want to understand family in that aspect of the relations because I want us to focus on the external relations. If we have conflicts that arises from the families, your mother-in-law comes into the house and then she starts questioning everything. She's like, this lady can't cook, she can't clean. My son prefers things like this, Belinda. In a case where the mother-in-law comes into. My mother-in-law comes to my house. Or whatever conflicts that may arise because there's always some conflict between the family and you as a couple. How do you address conflicts like that with your partner? Because there's always the sensitive part of, it's my mom. You cannot badmouth the mom. Yes. You cannot talk about the mom in a negative way with him because this is the mom. First of all, it calls for a lot of wisdom. And the good thing is that if we ask for wisdom from God, he will give us. But you should not also be in a scenario that you're too familiar with your in-laws. Like your mother-in-law is coming to stay in your house for a very long time. Familiarity? Grids what? It's a conflict. Yes. Yes. Because this is there, it comes to my house, you don't like the way I cook, if the food has a lot of oil, you know, those small, small issues are the ones that will build up. And you know, sometimes we can try to downplay, we as women, we can try to decide to re-button it up, but then one day it will explode. So the best thing is to try to find an amicable solution of just telling your partner. Because again, you can go outside discussing about your in-laws with other people all over. You know, it has a few rumours, so talk to him first, just tell him. You know, you've learnt him, you know how he talks, you know how he operates. Make sure that he's in a good mood. Find his love language, there are five types of love languages. You can Google. Yes. If he's someone who likes affirmation, affirm him, bring his mood, when he's happy, drop the bomb. Then I'll tell him, you see. So it's strategy. Yes, strategise. Yes, be a wise woman. Strategise. Don't go there with all the, you know, thorax, like, you know, lures, lures we are. You know. Your mum, this, your mum, no, strategise. Make sure that he's in a good mood to talk. Then make sure you tell him, in a nice way, frame your words. I can also say, go way into what Naftali said, that our words have power. And you know, in as much as our words have power, you say those about being intentional. Rehace in your mind, if you have a problem with your speech, because sometimes we can be very intentional. You go there, I am going to tell him, like, but then by the time you reach there, you switch off and you do something else. Your emotions take over. Yes. So what you can do is have a mental rehearsal of what you are going to say and how you are going to solve this conflict. If you rehearse it, you'll find yourself doing it and do not treat your mother-in-law or your father-in-law in the same manner they are treating you, do not repay evil for evil. If they are treating you in a very funny way, just assume you are not even seeing those negative things that they are doing to you. Respond with positive vibes. So you know, with positive vibes, positive vibes are very addictive. If I start behaving in a positive manner, eventually we will also start behaving in a positive manner. So if you want to solve it, make sure that you don't repay evil for evil or you don't retaliate immediately, but make sure you go to your husband when he is in a good mood. Strategy, strategy, strategy. Thank you. I really love our guests today, they are very rational and that was very clear-minded. It's a very clear way of solving conflicts. Kachini Kwanzaa, think about it, think about what she wanted to say, then approach the problem. You know most of us just blow up. The minute something happens, you storm into the room and you're like, now your mom has done this today. Yeah, you have reacted. Which is very wrong and it will not solve the conflict, it will just create more conflict. So I hope you are taking note of that, Numbani. Naftali. Let's just talk about exes. That's the Unga Yatapati. At the Unga Yatapati. How close should you be with your exes, especially when you're married, especially. So who is an ex, number one, who is an ex? You see we have exes in different formats. How did they become an ex? So there are things which you cannot eliminate from an ex. I'm saying this with an honest and sincere feeling. Like now I have a friend who had a lady and they were disposed to get married. But the marriage did not happen because the parents of the lady argued that this comes from a different religious background. So that was the reason as to why they disposed to get married. So he went ahead and married from another. There is no point this lady accused him of anything. They were having ammonia relations. They were having freedom from disputes. They had that absence of mental stress and anxiety. They were enjoying their lives. This is the only thing which made them exes. So you wanted to say to me that the businesses which they were doing can stop because of this. Honestly. No. No. Are you blessing, argue this? Let's say your ex is a B.C.D. Now put to me the question maybe your ex became an ex because of a B.C.D. What did you want to do? I mean what distance did you keep? I like what you have wrote in that aspect. The issue is the ex who you have no conflict with. Someone cheated, they were disloyal. It was just something that an external factor that made you, maybe Italy, Europe and you are here. But how would your wife feel? Let me tell you now. Let me answer you. Belinda is it. I'm sorry. Last year after you came to Belinda about this matter, now you see my ex, we are not doing anything which is outside that Covenant between me and now my wife. My ex remains my ex but there are some other things which we needed to do. I'm telling you, number one, if my ex was a member of my alter, can I avoid her in the alter? I can't. No, that was an alter. If my ex was a member of the board where I sit, can I enter into the boardroom and then I don't speak to them? Just sit behind the board first. Honestly. Say like this, there are things which you need to do with your ex and there are things which you don't need to do but you can't eliminate your ex from your mind. It's impossible. I like that. It is very difficult. Give me a minute. Let me read the comments. Let me come to Belinda because this is a very burning issue. So this is on Facebook. Thank you so much for sharing your comments with us. I have Ali King's Jeshi who says, watching live from 001, so when solving conflict, just try make it a win-win situation between the two. Thank you so much for that. That's a very wise way of putting it. We have Missi White Dara who says, thank you for the information and lesson today, Karibusana, including children that is one don't if a father is having a conflict with his wife, who is the mother, they shouldn't include children in there because the conflict is between them. Thank you so much, White Dara and I hope back home you're taking note of that, do not include the children in the conflict. We have Dondada who says, well represented from Homa Bay, when solving conflict, make sure the case occurs between the participants can be a solvable case, not a joke. Thank you Dondada. That is also very good advice. I have Abiyod Kaila who says, I think he's quoted someone, Dr. Rewameno Wakuyu, Mananjabungoma County, represent Hadita Mati. Thank you. Alex Aleko says, hashtag, Alex from Kibwezi, when solving a conflict, avoid the blame game. Give your tooth. Thank you so much for that, Alex. That is very wise. We have Twist Ngoro who says, Dany from Muayah, thank you for watching us twist. We have Timothi Ngaira with three different comments. He says, thank you Timothi. Yes, I think all of that is just to sum up that he's watching. Thank you so much Timothi for your comments. And thank you for tuning in. You can continue to reach us on our social media platforms, Nahi Isu ya ex, and Dany Mniambe. Where were you by me? Would you be comfortable if your partner is still friends with the ex? Belinda, I know you're banning to say what you want to say. Do you know what, yes, you might be at the altar with your ex. You might not be having feelings for your ex, but the feeling might not be mutual. Maybe your ex really wants you back. And you know this is flesh, yes, you are operating in flesh, this is someone you are very close with, especially if your relationship had some conjugal benefits. So any time, yes, at the altar you are okay, but outside the altar in a hotel that you're discussing business with your ex, even if there's nothing sinister that happened between the two of you, maybe it was the case of the religion, like your friend's ex, your friend plus the ex. Not if they met at a hotel, just the two of them, and then they start reminding the good old days, you know, how you used to, you pass on me on the back. The moment your wife will hear that you're with your ex, what are you doing with your ex? Same case, it's not only about men, I know some women who are also friends with their ex, but their husbands don't like it. Even me, I have an ex, and at times he would be tempted to call me, you know, just to call me, I was checking up on you, you know, those are nonsense, why are you checking up on me? We are done, brother, we are done. I mean, I mean, a serious marriage now, I mean something that is permanent, I mean something that is long lasting. You had a chance to keep me, but you couldn't. So why would you keep on checking up on me over and over again? The time you had with me when you were supposed to check up on me was done and dusted. And you know, any time, there are things, we have traumas, like when you have bad memories, but even the good memories can trigger your body to do something. That's true. Because the body does, the body does not know the difference between something that happened in the past, if it's in your memory, versus something that is happening now. Any time I remember kissing someone and I'm deeply immersed in it, the same feeling I had when I was kissing that person is the same feeling I'll have when I'm doing in my present body. The body does not know the difference. That is scientifically proven. So imagine I'm sitting next to my ex and my mind goes back down the memory lane. We were doing, you know, we were La Vidavi and all that. Your body will start responding to external stimuli. You understand? And before you know it, something can happen. And you know the funny thing about what you've said, I just watched a video yesterday about muscle memory of dancers who maybe practice to one song for so many months that maybe two years later you play the same song and their body naturally starts making the moves and dancing. So I may agree with you naftali. It's okay to keep friendships, but I think in terms of marriage, you have to consider your partner and the feelings of your partner. It's not just about you and your ex. You may have some friendship. It may be purely business, but there's also emotions as Belinda has said. There's always the emotions that remain on both parts. You may have no intention to want this person back, but they may have some intention. So now based on that, let me let me leave the ex for a minute. I want us to get into finances. And before we do that, I want to ask naftali. What would you recommend about the boundaries over male and female friendships in a marriage? If you have some female friends, even female colleagues, how should you maintain those boundaries and make it clear that we're just friends, we're just acquaintances and that is it. Yeah, so it's an easy thing because you know, you cannot choose for me friends or you cannot choose for them friends. Yeah. So they may decide to have male friends or female friends. But now when it comes to finances, then it depends on where you are thinking is because everyone has an orientation to do with friends. People come with that heart of generosity that I can help anyone. So you cannot instruct me whom to give and whom not to give. So in the in the in the matter of whether I'm assisting a male friend or a female friend and then you come with your own thinking and then you feel in the blank spaces, it must not arise in any relationship because you must ask me why are you doing this? So if I'm disposed or any client to explain clearly, this is why I'm giving blessing money or belittling the money. Not unless then you come up with your own thinking. But I understand that finances, the way you deal with the finances, with your friends, with your family, you must have your own, your own personal, your own personal budget and that underlying structure. How you want it to be because you understand your basic needs, you understand your secondary needs, you know how to win them. Yeah. And like you've said, there's also individuality in a relationship. I have different interests, so do you. So I may not have the same friend group as you. As long as there is respect, then it should be something that you accept. Because you can't dismiss someone from being friends with their colleagues because there's a bat here. Yes, but as much as you're giving out money or you're helping your friends, make sure you meet the basic needs in your house first. You cannot be a charitable group NGO outside you are an NGO, but inside your house, there is no food. It doesn't make sense. That's why you're not being genuine. You have to meet the basic needs of your house first. Yes. Before you go out helping other people. That is the point I needed to make there. And Naftali said that he should not be instructed. We don't instruct, we advise. Amen. Amen. I like it from the women's perspective. Yes, because sometimes we say something with such authority, it's final, but it's advice. It's an advice. Yes, it's an advice. Because sometimes we already, you know, sometimes women have like a sixth sense. You might be helping your friend over and over again. Maybe you're giving him money to go and drink. You understand? Sure. Yes, your money is being wasted out there and there's some key things that you have not done. Our brothers before never used to build houses in Ushago. And in the city, they were the life of the party. But nowadays we have Chanukad. Yes. Lures are building, you know, but before we could be the life of the party. We were NGOs outside in the club. They were the ones who were carrying the measure. It's a full measure. But inside this house, there's nothing to show for it. They have not invested. So sometimes also just look at the aspect or another angle from your partner. What are they trying to say? Before you dismiss them, get to understand them. From which point are they talking? Are they genuine or are they just malicious because they want to control your finances? And there are people who, some friends who know you have money. Yes. And they know if they ask you for money, you will give them money. They can be dependent on you. So you have to, maybe when someone gives you advice, then you can see it from a different perspective. Now let me talk about women with money. We usually have this ideology. It's a belief that women will keep secret accounts stashed away somewhere and never tell their husbands about it. Belinda, do you think it's right for women to do that and have like other investments without the husband knowing? No, I don't believe in that. Because I have to ask for what I give. If I want honesty, let me give honesty. If I want transparency, let me start by being transparent. There are scenarios whereby we hide or we stash money away from our spouses. Then when we die, this money gets lost completely. I think it's a recovery. Yes, I think it's a recovery. Yet your kids are being done for fundraising to go to school. Yet you have a lot of money. Be transparent. If you want to avoid conflict in terms of finances, be transparent. Because there is no secret. You will think it's a secret but your husband will get you one day. You will think it's a secret but your husband will get you one day. You will think it's a secret but your husband will get you one day. They don't use the secrets to punish us. So if you don't have any secrets, then you don't have anything to hide. Then you can now rightfully ask for the other person also to be transparent. But you know someone might even misinterpret. Yes. Atonapesa and Lizu metohapi all this money. They think you have some other man out there. Yes, there's a mubaba giving you money. Yet it's your own sweat. Just be transparent. And I like that because I've also heard a case of a gentleman. There was a story I had on Twitter of someone who's been living in his house rent-free for the past three years because the landlord must have passed away. And no one knows about this house. I heard it. Yes, naturally. What will you advise them? And because men also hide families. They will keep a whole family aside and then Sikuyamazishi. Then there's this wife and children who are coming up. So that is now where wisdom comes in. Wisdom has five elements. Number one is knowledge. Number two is experience. Number three is understanding. Number four is common sense. And then number five is insight. So if you have these five with you, you are good to go as far as wise men or women is concerned. So I cannot give a judgment to someone who is hiding money because you see you know the situation. You know if I reveal this cash to blessing, this is what will happen. So at the moment, I will not reveal. But I will reveal it maybe later on. So it's about you being prompted or having wisdom because there are people who have mental illness. There are people who you can't show things. They will possess them as theirs. So you need wisdom even in their family. You are one for crying out loud. You know, you see. You are like Belinda. Belinda. You are one. You are one. How come my body is yours but your money is not mine? Yeah, Belinda. Belinda, we are one. But one part is ill as in mental illness. You see, there is this function of mental disorder. You can see it. But what if I'm not ill? I'm just okay spiritually, mentally, physically. So if you are okay now, then it's good now to calm down and then discuss about your money together. Yes. But if you realize my lady or my man has some function of mental disorder when it comes to cash, then do not reveal. You are killing a ruka. Yeah, Kamali. You need wisdom. You need wisdom. How can you wisdom? You must become a wise man. Belinda, don't know if you are in mental illness. When you are in mental illness, you don't have issues. What if you are dealing with someone who actually has an issue, maybe anger, issues, narcissism. And you know your partner, say a conflict that you are in love with, and that's not what I meant. How do you solve conflict with someone like that? Who is mentally ill? Take them to a mental institution. If they are mentally ill. But it's not, you know, there's like narcissism. Let's say that. Or someone, to say they are in mental illness, to say they are in mental illness. It's an only child. He's used to having his way because he's already had, yes. And he does his, it's his way or the highway. Then in that scenario, I would help them. First of all, I would try to help them to become a better person. Yes. Because you know, everyone can get better. There's no personality that is like permanent and cast on stone. You can change things. Anyone can change. If there are people who are used to having it all, then you help them to see your side of, the other side of the coin. Yes, because you know, if someone likes having it all, more often than not, you are the opposite. You cannot be two people who are just the same type of personality. So you try to help them to become better before you reveal your finances. But don't, don't put it a secret for life. Just try to make them better first. Help them to work on themselves. Help them to see that they have a problem. So that they get help or you help them to become better then now you also unpack everything. You put everything on the table because I believe in transparency. Yes. And that's what marriage is for you is supposed to help someone to. Help the other person. Yes. Who is going to say that I am a woman and a woman? And you say this is how I am? I... In that scenario, Yes. In that scenario, I would keep my cards close to their chest fast. If they are adamant to change because they think they are always right, you know that is also pride. And pride goes before a fall. True. Yes. Pray for them and... Yes. And pride is a sin. It is. Yes. So ask God to help them to see the areas that they are failing or falling short. Yeah, because you can't change a person. Exactly. You can't directly change a person. But you ask God to help them. True. If they refuse to change. Yeah. I like that because God can change someone. Yes. You can't. But God will definitely step in. Yes, exactly. Now, Naftali, let me bring it back to ex... or your ex-wako. Mune, you left at good times. Let's say one time you are having a Kesha at church. And then it's a bit late. You have to go home, it's far, you're in Naivasha. You decide, let's book a room together. Something happens and you happen to cheat. Yes. I said anything, just anything. Maybe even kissing. You don't even have to sleep with a person. What would you do in a situation where you find that you have cheated on your spouse? Okay, what would I do in a situation if I find myself... Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's an implication. That's an implication. You see, that's an implication. Number one, because now I've done it. Let me assume I've done it. I will ask for forgiveness. Number one, I will feel remorse for myself. So that means you will go home, tell your wife? Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Listen to me very carefully. Yes. When you sin, and especially now, in the matter of now adultery, you feel remorse first in the spiritual realm. Because no one is righteous. Number two. Absolutely. Because looking at you alone with the last... You already have sinned. Yes, true. The last of the eyes. So by this, I mean, now, let's consider your question. It is that actual sin, that actual flesh. So it's not a big thing to me, or to us. It must not be a big thing. It must not bring us down. It is just a sin. Listen to me very carefully. Listen to the contrast between believe and not... Listen to me very carefully. Listen to me very carefully. The sin is a sin. Mm-mm, true. For God. Yeah. So if you find yourself willingly, or unwillingly, you have sinned, know that you are a believer. Number one. So if you know you are a believer, you know you are by God. And this God is full of mercy. He's full of lenience. He has that dispossession to be kind and forgiving on you. Because the blood, the covenant, the will of the terms of the covenant of the blood of Jesus Christ has that capacity for rational thought. Because it says, come let us reason together. So if you have sinned in that way, feel remorse first. It is very important. Because when you feel remorse, then, in the spiritual realm, you are forgiven. But now to your spouse at home, you can't reveal them. Do you think it's a secret? Do you know why? You will find a way. You will find a way. Not to reveal, but to reveal to your spouse that you have some weakness. So that now you can devise your own ways to do what? You have to bring some recompense. But you cannot say exactly because if you say exactly, then it may bring another thing. What if they find out? No, let me ask. Let's hold that. Let me ask Belinda on the counter side because we're running out of time. If you, as the lady, you are the one who has cheated, you may be met with an ex from five years ago who was really good, but one thing did not work out. Would you tell your husband if you, what you can make his to? I would also do the first step, feel remorseful, ask God for forgiveness because I'll be convicted. If you don't ask for forgiveness, then sometimes now it will become a habit. True. Yes. So I'll ask for forgiveness. Then after that, I will tell my husband. I will, I will, I will, I will because I'm that transparent person. Anything that happens to me, I tell him. I'm an open book. Even knowing how difficult the men are. And I'm always willing to bear the burden and take the consequences. I'm ready for the consequences because by the time I got married to him, I decided that I'm becoming one with him. Yes? So anything that happens to me, whether it's good or bad, I'll share with him. But I'll also devise a method. I will not just go to him, you know what? Just like that. You know what? Cupcake to the auntie Tony, you know. You have to be wise as well. I have to be wise. First of all, I'll ask, what would ever happen if one day I cheat on you? I'll be like you, but eventually I'll have to tell him because it will eat me up. Knowing that I'm sleeping next to this person, I cheated on them. Yes, and I am not saying anything about it. Let me just tell him and then he will decide to forgive me or not. I will bear the consequences. I like that because that's also taking accountability for your actions. So let's wrap this conversation up. At that point, let's get some final comments in under a minute from both of you as we wrap up the show. Naftali, what would you tell a young man who's intending on getting married, who's just gotten married? What's the final advice you'd give him tonight? Number one, if there is a conflict, maybe in that relationship or in that marriage, do not be easily agitated. Do not lose your self-position. Have that steadiness of mind and stress. So that out of that now bold mind, you have another aspect of life. So after considering so many cases and then giving your mind that open space, you will now be able to make a bold move. So do not just make moves unnecessary. Thank you for that. That is very clear and I hope you've gotten that. Be clear-minded when making decisions. Belinda, what's your parting shot for our ladies tonight? Be quick to forgive. Don't carry your husbands or your spouse past mistakes into the current conflict. If you're dealing with this conflict, deal with this conflict. Don't carry past mistakes into this conflict. Number two, ABC. Always be curious about your partner. Know what makes your partner happy. Know what kind of partner you have that will really strengthen the bond in your marriage. Then, ABG, always be grateful. A grateful heart attracts a lot of happiness. If you're grateful, even amidst conflict, you will see that your mood will start changing. So remember, be quick to forgive. ABC, always be curious. And then, ABG, always be grateful. Thank you so much. Thank you as well. That's very sound. So this is our parting shot for this evening. It's from David Rico who says, to be adult in relationship is not to be conflict-free. It's to resolve conflicts mindfully. And I believe we have another quote. We can bring that up. This is from Thomas Crum who says, the quality of our lives depends not on whether or not we have conflicts, but on how we respond to them. Thank you so much. That is it for this evening. We've tried to understand how can you solve conflicts? You have to be mindful. You have to be intentional. And you have to understand yourself and your partner. That is it for this evening. You can catch a repeat of this show tomorrow between 1 and 2 p.m. You can also find us on YouTube in case you haven't found this. And that's it. Thank you so much. I'll catch you again next week. Same time, same place.