 Welcome to the Monday, June 20th, 2022 meeting of the Montpelier Design and Review Committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves. Eric Gilbertson, member. Benjamin Cheney, member. Mike Miller, staff. Steven Everett, member. Martha Smirsky, member. Liz Pritchett, member. Meredith Crandall, staff, remotely. Okay, good. So either Meredith or Mike, would somebody like to review the remote meeting procedures? Yeah, so I'll be doing that. Let me just share my screen and some of this is more for, oh, what just happened here? Hold on, too many screen share options. There we go. Okay, so can everybody see the slideshow? Yeah. Yes. Okay, great. So for those viewing this meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the Zoom platform. You can use this link here. You can also call into the meeting using this phone number and this meeting ID. I'll leave this up. And if anyone is having problems accessing the meeting, please email me. Here's my email address. I'll have the email up throughout the meeting. Right now we just have JC on our applicant. So for those attending via Zoom, just note that turning on your video is optional. We do ask that you keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This will reduce background noise, make for a better recording for our minute secretary. And a reminder to use the Zoom chat function only for technical difficulties. If somebody logs on from partway through, who's on Orca right now watching this, if you have substantive questions, we ask that you raise your hand and wait until the chair calls on you, and then you can ask those questions. In the event that the meeting is unable, since somebody from the public is unable to access this meeting, it will need to be continued to a time and place certain. And I'll be keeping an IMI email throughout the meeting, just in case that happens. All right. I'm going to hand this back over to the chair. Thank you, Meredith. And unless anybody has anything to add at this point, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? So moved, says Eric. All second. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Martha. Eric. Ben. Steve. Liz. Okay, the agenda is approved. We can go to the first application for 118 Berry Street on our applicant, JC Earl. Would you like to describe your project for us? You're going to need to unmute yourself, JC. Yeah, sorry about that. So, yes, I hope you were able to view the documents that I sent in. And if you're familiar with the building or saw the documents, it's in a pretty serious state of disrepair. So this is the first stage and basically is triage to try to save the building from ending up in Berry Street. So anyways, it's just the basics of the roof is in a state of failure. So the roofs pretty much all need to be replaced. And the foundation is in a state of failure on one corner. And the windows are either broken, missing or not there. So from a historical perspective, the basic structure is got a historic shape and obviously preserved. None of the windows in the building currently are historic. They're all fairly modern replacement windows. The foundation is a fieldstone foundation that's in failure. But that I have searched far and wide and I cannot find anybody that is willing to repair a historic foundation like that with historic methods or means. So the best I can come up with is to remove a section and repair it with concrete. And the roof is sort of similar. It's sort of a steeper roof is an aged out asphalt shingle. And the flatter roofs are a bizarre combination of metal and membrane. And we're proposing replacing it with rubber membrane, which is really the only roof that operates well at that pitch or lack of pitch. So it's sort of, you know, save the building mission. I am curious because where one question I have is that the fire marshals do not consider the only way to make the window openings that are there a legal egress windows if they are being replaced is to replace them with one of the ones that are in the cut sheet, which is the kind that swing out. And I was curious, you know, how that works with the DRC and the historical things because obviously those are not swinging out windows or not a historical look. The single where I can use the single hung style will very much match the historical style of what, at least what's there and probably, you know, might have been a nice six over six pain originally or something. But, you know, those are long gone and no remnants of them. But anyway, it's just curious what, how that plays out the egress windows versus the historical design needs. First, I'm sorry. So I couldn't hear the question. Where are you going to wear the casement windows going to be and where are the double hung windows going to be? So the good news is that there's only one bedroom that does face 18 Berry Street. But that bedroom legally by fire marshal standards would require an egress, one of those windows to be egress windows. Those would be on the front portion of the building facing the, you know, above the porch. So that's the only window that would be a visible, you know, difference in not a single hung style that matches the double hung. The other ones would be in the back and only visible from, you know, if you're walking behind the building. How many units are in the building? There's three units in the building. One up, one up, one down or two up, one down or vice versa. If you look at the photo of the, I hope it's clear, the whole photo of the sort of facade, the part that's on the western side is sort of a, was probably the original structure and it has more of a gable end facing Berry Street. Right. That section is a two bedroom apartment that is a first floor and second floor. And yeah, there you go. And the, and the, that's a, so that whole section is one apartment, one two bedroom apartment. And then on the right hand side, those are one bedroom apartments, first floor and second floor or their own apartments. Okay. And the number of units would stay the same, JC? You know, no change to the units, no change to the layout, no change to the, just, just in, and you can see the, in this photo, that one of those two windows by, by fire standards would need to be an egress window. And the openings are not large enough to make them an egress window with a double hung style. I'm looking at the picture of the second floor from the east side of the building, which shows the, the upper floor porch. If you look at, if you look at that porch on the second floor where that bedroom is, if you were to go back into that corner above where the stairs go down, is there any chance of putting a doorway in there that could come out to that porch that would satisfy an egress? There's, it doesn't connect to that bedroom unfortunately. There's a, there's a, the stairway for the, that apartment mimics that. So that's, there's no, there's no direct access to that porch area. But that was an, that is an excellent idea. I was just wondering if it was, if that was an acceptable means of egress, so that you could actually egress onto that porch and down the stairs, as opposed to egressing out of a window onto a porch roof. I mean, if, if it could be accessed, if, if the stairway didn't go through there. So if you're looking at that picture on the exterior, the stair on the interior, that goes from the first floor to the second floor mimics the, the stair that is on the exterior. So there's no easy, there's no space there that would, it doesn't adjoin, that porch doesn't adjoin the bedroom, even though it looks like it does because of the cavity for the, your headroom and stuff. Okay. No, I was just a curiosity question. And also looking at that picture and then the picture of the west side of the section of the building with the gable roof, would that have asphalt shingles on it and then membrane only on the low pitch sections? Yes. So the asphalt would go on to the 12, 12 pitch roofs you're seeing there on either side. Okay. And that one in that one. And then the membrane would only be used on the porch roofs in the flat roof. Okay. That is correct. Can you get that casement window with a divider so it would look like a double hung? I can ask if that's an option and definitely order it that way if that's an option. They can apply a surface mutton which gives the appearance of a double hung window. Sure. Yeah. I have seen that and I'm sure, I'm sure that, you know, I just, you know, I'll have to confirm but yes, it should be possible. Do you have someone lined up to do the work JC? That's, yes, I have people but that's, you know, we'll see if they're, what their availability is like and, you know, when I can get them in and think that there's, as you probably know, it's a very competitive market to try to get workers right now. I would suggest that you get the casement window and put it in both those second floor windows with a divider so that they match. So from the street it looks like it would look like a double hung window. You're far enough from the street that nobody's going to get a close-up look at it but, and I would match the window so they're not different. That's a great idea. Yeah, sure. There's no reason we can't do two of the same, that have the same mullion so they match. In addition to the Pella 250 casement, there's also showing in the application a Pella 250 series single hung. Why would you use a single hung instead of a double hung? The single hung are significantly more energy efficient than the double hung. Their air flow penetration is much lower and, and they're, they're significantly more cost effective and unfortunately that my experience of the double hungs is it's just more, it's more movements and mechanisms to, to fail and the, they actually look almost, from, from outside you can't tell the difference between a single and the double hung. Their look is the same. They're just a higher performance window. And would they be replaced almost everywhere or are there certain sections where the double hung would be replaced with a single? There are a few windows in the building that are functional and anything that's, that's currently functional and not, you know, what I would leave until it, until it's the end of its useful life. But I would say that 70% of the windows are broken or, or failed in some state of, of non-operation. How many windows are you replacing? There will probably be, I have to do a final count. I think there's going to be about eight windows that are, that are, that are replaced, eight to nine. I got to go through again real carefully and count the, the, that we get the final exact number. Are most of the windows one over ones, one pane of glass over one pane of glass? I see there's one that's got, it looks like a two over one. Yes, yeah, that's the only two over one there and I don't know, as you can see, I don't know if it's clear from the photo, but basically, it looks like the, the bottom sash there doesn't actually even fit. I think that they just jury, you know, found the sash somewhere and threw it in there. So everything else is, is one over one. Okay. I like Eric's idea of having the two front windows match. Yep, that's very doable and a good, good idea. Anybody have any other comments, questions, suggestions? I'm glad you're replacing the roof. I think that's about the worst one I've ever seen. It's, it's, it's pretty, I don't know if I've seen a worst one in my appeal here. It's pretty much in, in a complete state of failure and has been, looks like it has been for a long time. I would say there's some chance that roofing is historic, but it shouldn't be. Yeah. Good comment. I wish there was a, you know, another option, but asphalt shingle is not my favorite roofing material, but between the way it would slide onto the membrane roof, if it was something like standing seam or something else that it doesn't, unfortunately, asphalt is the, is the practical solution, even though it's not my favorite roofing material. Does it leak really badly? There are spots that are leaking badly, but surprisingly, that, that jury rigged and ridiculous roof is actually holding out more water than it has any right to. Well, you are saving the building by fixing the roof. Oh, yeah, it's not long for this world if that roof doesn't get, get, get fixed. And it's, you know, not quite as as eminent, but the foundation issue is significant as well. I don't think the foundation, you know, will be very visible from, from the road, just the way it is, it is on the western, beyond the northwestern corner is where it's failed. But just the angle of the way it sits up on that little rise, I don't think it will have a significant visual impact. I'm just writing here, basically, your recommendation about the case that windows and Eric, were you recommending putting two of those in so they matched? Yeah, they match in with the some kind of a divider, a horizontal divider that can be applied to match the double-hunch ones. Generally looks like the other windows. Yeah, I've seen them like that. So I'll go through the criteria for all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided where possible. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. Deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced in this case. Some of those windows are beyond repair where the severity of deterioration requires a replacement of a character defining feature. The new feature shall be replaced in kind any treatments that cause damage to restart materials, including but not limited to chemical or physical treatments such as hand-blasting shall not be approved. This application is acceptable. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use any new developments shall be differentiated from the old, but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size scale architectural features detailing and overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties acceptable location and appearance of all utilities mechanical equipment, trash storage and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view acceptable architectural features, including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered and the alteration of a building architectural features on an addition shall not duplicate, but shall respect the original historic buildings architectural features acceptable. Roof drainage systems shall not hide or obscure architectural character defining features and shall run adjacent to building corners when possible acceptable. And lastly, windows and doors on historic structures, character defining windows and door patterns placement sizes proportions and original features such as trims, sash and moldings shall be preserved to the extent possible when preservation is not possible such character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind windows and doors that are not character defining may be replaced, but such replacements must be compatible with the historic building style materials and architectural features acceptable. And then the recommendations regarding the egress windows. It's recommended that the casement windows needed for egress on the second floor front side of the west portion of the building have a horizontal muntin installed to visually replicate the double hung windows on the remainder of the building. Also both windows to be replaced to match all in favor of the application. Speak your names. Eric, Ben, Martha, Steve application is approved five to nothing. So JC, the form that Steve's filling out that has the recommendation, I will send you a scan of that. I'll email that to you because we'll need your sign off on that before we can go forward with issuing the permit. Does that work? Okay, sure. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate all your help. Thank you and best of luck with your project. Thank you very much. Yeah. Has everyone had a chance to take a look at the minutes from the June 6th meeting? Yes, and I'll make a motion to accept them the way they are. Second, all in favor of the minutes. Speak your names. Eric, Ben, Martha, and Steve minutes are approved. Does anyone have any other business at this time? The only thing I would like to say, I guess, is that Steve, you were there. We held the public hearing on the draft guidelines for the design of your committee. We had what merit is about 10 or 12 people, something like that? Yeah, about eight. Eight. And we got positive comments and merit has gotten at least one positive comment through email. So that I would have liked to see more people there. I hope they're not waiting in the weeds to come out at some other critical point. But that seemed to be moving forward. I appreciate people on the design review commenting on it. Steve, thank you for your attendance and comments. You're welcome. Anybody have anything else to add? Or do I hear a motion to adjourn? So moved. All second. All in favor of adjournments. Speak your names. Martha, Eric, of course, Steve. So meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming.