 recently a photographer reached out to me via email and said you need to photograph me now that bravado has led to a fantastic interview which I'm going to share with you today so if you want to see the wonderful work of Sy Melba a fashion photographer working in London and find out how to get a model wearing a design address to lie down in a horse trough then you are in for a rare treat today all right okay so how's it how's it guys today we've got a Sy Melba with us he is a fashion photographer based in London and he's going to talk us through you know his life is transition from was a motorsport I believe in you into a fashion photographer and also and you lecture in fashion photography as well so so lots to share I think with you so welcome Sy to to this inaugural chat I think with some you know photographers and do you want to tell me a little bit about yourself you know how did you get started yeah for sure um so first of all I have to say leckie brew for how's it going to you so um yeah so I'm a so I'm a late bloomer in fashion photography I'm a I'm a motorsport journalist originally I'm a journalist by training and um start started in motorcycle magazines and then went on to launch my own motorcycle magazine and then from there did that for successfully for 20 odd years sold the magazine and then thought right what do I do now so I I'd always been involved in photography with the with the magazine and so I thought well you know that's my my passion that's the thing I really want to earn my living from so why not pick up the camera and use it to turn in my living so and the switch to fashion obviously is kind of a you know big change from shooting motorcycles and motorsport and all that sort of thing and it was just a I guess it was something that I really wanted to try and you know a new challenge something I was interested in and it was a change from shooting people whizzing past you at a hundred miles an hour to people standing there you know and you can see their faces they don't wear crash helmets and the whole thing is really a bit more kind of personable if that's the right word yeah it sounds like so do you have any formal training or is it your self-taught all self-taught yeah was this was this something that was from childhood or is it some of you sort of then you came into like your teens or you know so well I mean I first kind of picked up one of those points and shoot cameras that we used to have back then you know when I was six or seven I think and we always had like a you know polaroids or something around the house and I know you know I was fascinated by photography and I know but I got my first SLR as they were then film SLR when I was 17 on my 17th birthday pleaded for a Canon camera which my parents bought me and went from there really developed my own film shot black and white and and just enjoyed the whole process of composing the image shooting the image and and kind of creating the artwork fantastic yeah I also cut my teeth on Canon cameras and there's been a laugh on the thing I can't pull myself away from sending the 35mm format and you did you obviously could you lecture in photography or I think you said fashion photography yeah specifically that you've got some ideas and you know that and some some points of view that have grown up because how long have you been taking photographs now for professionally well profession professionally I guess you'd have to include my magazine work because I've shot a lot of covers for magazines so best part of 30 years 30 years so you know you build up an idea you get you see things come and go and previously when we were talking you mentioned that there were sort of misconceptions and ideas within photography that you wanted to address or at least you don't give your viewpoints on and the first one that you came up with was sharpness and I think you know this is always a hot button photography is what is sharpness about and you very kindly supplied some images which I'm just going to bring up on on screen here to you know illustrate your your points you know so what what is it about sharpness do you think that the photographers sort of get wrong so I don't think photographers get sharpness wrong overall what my point really Alex is that I think sharpness as a concept is overrated I think you can have great imagery without simply pursuing ultimate sharpness and you know the the the better the lenses get the sharper they get and and I just think sharpness is overrated some of you know I'm not saying of course that we don't want to have sharp imagery of course we do what I am saying though is that that there is also plenty of great imagery that that doesn't quite hit focus it you know and yet or it's a captures a sort of a fleeting moment and those images are are some of the best images I always think and so I sort of say you know I mean I like to say to students you know step away from the clarity slider just leave that that little button alone that slider just worry more about you know creating a mood and an image rather than making sure that everything is exactly in focus you know modern cameras obviously with the autofocus and you know pin point accuracy on the eyes it's all great but sometimes you want to shoot from the hip the camera you know isn't focusing on exactly the right point and you can still create great images that that image the last image just going back one you wet this is this isn't how to focus shot it's a manually focused you know shot on film on a manually focused camera and I remember this this shot I'd focused in on her and then she turned towards me and I went click to to grab the shot yeah and the shot is I think it's beautiful even though it's not in focus it just has an element of a little bit of movement to it a little bit of real life to it and it's you know it lets you breathe a little bit more you don't have to have you know you don't have to worry too much about the you know it clearly isn't in focus you can just go ah okay it's interesting looking at this this image because there's a couple here I think this this young lady as well you know striding down the street and while you were talking about feeling and you know like a mood I think like a vibe of the kind of thing this this particular photograph is on on on the screen and really you know when I look at this it's it's really it's just a trailing foot and the background is sharp for one to the better and everything else is is in movement and much like you mentioned with this lady here she's looking over her shoulder and it is soft and depending obviously on how you what screen you view these is going to be sharper or softer but yeah it is it's not wildly out of focus and it's interesting that I kind of look at it and and think yeah like camera club you kind of stuff right so this is more like do you know like her profile is you know her nose is breaking her profile and everything so these are all checkbox exercises I don't hold my hand up and say that feels like it but your perspective as as as a working professional right who takes pictures and sells them magazines and they get published and things do people really care about that sort of thing in for one of the better word the real world no it you know in short next question no of course you know you want to try and to nail the focus and and that's the idea but but really what we're trying to convey in fashion photography is much more about a mood and and and focusing would come way down the list I don't mean focusing but I mean you know absolutely nailing focus would come absolutely way down the list you know behind what what it is we're trying to portray I could say don't get me wrong I'm not saying that all my shots are soft I hope not anyway few but but you know what I am saying is don't discount them and don't chase you know ultimate sharpness because it's a lost cause it's it's not the most important element to me in a fashion photograph and I'll give you a you know let you in on a little secret is that um a lot of pros will actually soften off an image after they shot it and I don't mean on the clarity slider you know yes maybe a bit of that but also they'll go into Photoshop and they'll blur it ever so slightly you know uh two or three pixels maybe a bit less and just so there's a little element of movement that just feels more human about an image so you know and I know there's a difference between you know sharpness and blur and all those sorts of things but I suppose I I'm kind of grouping it all together and saying you know for some people I think they they chase a pin sharp imagery and actually I think there's more to a shot than just that wow that's very profound I like that there's yeah that idea that sharpness isn't to be on end all of everything it isn't and I think the sorry to go back but I think that you know the to some degree it's in the interest of the of the camera manufacturer manufacturers to sellers sharper and sharper lenses and stuff and and really we don't you know the human eye doesn't really see it in quite that sort of detail and so I find it a little bit exhausting every time I look at people's images especially if they've been over sharp and you know sometimes I just want an image to you know just relax a little bit and let it breathe I like that let let it breathe to say you you mentioned when we were talking you know earlier off camera about you know sort of getting rid of stereotypes and imagine working in fashion photography that things do move forward and and you know how have you managed to stay current or kind of change with the times almost so it's a it's a really good question I think the the the point the sort of second point I wanted to make really was to was when you're shooting fashion you know ditch the stereotype don't you know you're working with a model male or female and you need to engage with that model you need to let them use their brain form a connection with that model and and let them you know help create an image so that so that we're not you know just just shooting a model who we position to do this or to do that what we actually want to do is is to work alongside the model and and you know allow them to express themselves in a way that isn't old-fashioned so just to interrupt there how would you do that how do you go about creating an environment where say this gentleman here for example feels comfortable you know just like playing around with the tree or something how much direction do you give people well obviously I am giving them quite a bit of direction because you know I sometimes I have an idea in my head of what I'm looking for but but what I'm really trying to say is I'm not I'm not telling them to to make specific movements what what I'm really saying to them is to is what you know what would you do here what can you do here what's your you know how would you like to to to pose what you know what what is your strengths and weaknesses in terms of you know can you jump on the tree can you hang off the tree what would you do so I'm so I'm actively engaging with the model so that they contribute to to creating a shot and and at the same time when I say you know ditch the stereotypes avoid the stereotypes is is avoiding shooting women in particular as as objects you know arched back and you know this and the very old fashion sort of look you know we we just want to avoid that now and we want to to create with the model to produce interesting shapes and you know an amazing image right so does that raises a question you know you say about working with the model and for a lot of people who are watching this they're not really going to be working with for one of the better word a professional model so I'd imagine it's slightly easier when you know you have somebody who's used to being photographed and and they kind of will lean into it and bring a lot of their own but what advice would you give to somebody who wanted to break free of that stereotypical sort of this you know posing and and engage in a more fluid sort of way of photographing with somebody I think the I mean I think respect is key I think I think one has to respect the model and and be friendly and you know remember boundaries and you know and and and basically kind of make friends with a model and put them at ease and let them be themselves and that that is the best advice I could give to anyone you know obviously if they start making you know sort of weird shapes that it's not going to work that's fine then you direct them in a way that you want to to direct them and help them but I but I think that the crucial thing is the models have to know that they're part of the creative process and they also have to feel comfortable and and it's only when they're really comfortable that that you will get great work out of them so respect and friendliness are absolutely key to respect there you see that that's all you need to respect and friendliness and what a fantastic piece of advice because there are so many you know books as we all know and places you can learn about photography and yet these kind of things are so rarely addressed that I think that it's a huge huge you know insight into how you know people work with each other and how it does make your photographs feel a little bit more real yeah I mean I well thanks for saying that I hope so you know I think I think that really you know people are people are just great fun to photograph and and you know and it's capturing that that element of them that little bit of personality that shines through in a photograph and I know it sounds a bit cliche but it's it's really true and it's that if you can just manage to put them at ease let them be themselves and and you know the other thing is often they're great at kind of creating a great shape that you might not have in your head and it's only by allowing them you know free reign to do that that you actually get to an amazing result yeah that's that's fantastic now I have noticed obviously a lot of in fact all the images we've looked at our location images and I particularly you know my I've spent most of my life stuck inside a studio so I like the freedom of I do going out with with somebody you know photographing them in situ in English because it does lend a lot more to the session and you you want to I think you know you to talk about this because it just it feels like it's a it's a thing that people tend to overlook in how much it can influence the feeling of the mood of the work oh for sure I mean I love shooting on location you know I also have to shoot studio but I love location shoots and and to me you know I view locations as my friends you know I love the all the stuff that's going on in the background whatever it is and I'm always looking at for for locations and and not not you know kind of necessarily great locations just interesting locations so this this picture for instance is shot in the obviously in a car park of a university car park or something we're gonna play car park bingo because one of my favorite locations to take pictures is the car park yeah because it's look it's brutalist and it's you know there's concrete and it's kind of looks like a big cavern or something and there's a bar going you know going across the image I love it it's it's really casually short the model is slightly oddly cropped which I like the background isn't square which I like there's light coming in from one side it's you know here I am critiquing my own photo going oh I love this but I mean of course I've sent you the photos that I actually look at it's interesting that you know there's a bit of I would say that a hint of not aggression from the model but a kind of like a little bit of attitude yeah I mean I think the model has pulled that from the environment you know I don't I'm just you know in I don't think that it's the environment really I think if she's a really good model she knows her angles you know she's got this kind of short hair and and and great look which is you know and she's she's standing there in a jacket and and no top so she's you know she's owning that image yeah she she is empowered by that she's great yeah and you know and she's she's looking down at me you know I'm shooting from a lower angle and and the whole thing just just screams empowerment from it does it's a it's a very it's I really like like the photograph thanks and then this is totally different sort of thing this is very bright and wow it's like yeah and I mean you know here we are this is this is just on the streets of London it's a great door I'd clock the door before we did the shoot and when you know it the you know one of the outfits was was exactly the same colour so yeah so we then we went and grabbed some stools we borrowed those from a cafe nearby cafe and you know I made sure to get the obviously the the colourful door and the colour of the of the models clothes and the stools are just kind of you know thrown in there yeah it is but I mean you know this is this is the thing that I love about location photography is you know that it's and it's not just like a great door like that I mean you other shots that I that I of mine will have rubbish bags and you know I don't know clutter and stuff I don't move anything out of the way I love to shoot with all the trappings of life that going on all around me okay and you know that's part of of you know what we see every day and my work is very much in in that vein so this is a this is a shot of it's why it's kind of a what it is a sort of two or three hundred year old 200 year old I would think metropolitan horse trough or something this is right by regents park yeah and bottle in a Gucci suit great pose and again really just owning the look and I love that you know she's just she's in a Gucci suit and it's like just go and lay in that trough yeah just go and lay in the truck and it's wet you can see it's wet and the leaves are wet yeah you know but this is you know when I look at this and going back to what you were talking about you know about the posing and getting over stereotypes and things of that nature how does this kind of photograph this pose happen because it seems to me that you know there's a big leap than going from you're wearing a Gucci suit and you're in this environment to would it just what would happen if you lay in that thing is that kind of is that the thought process yeah I mean again I just kind of clocked this and I knew that the shot was in there and I because it's shot on film I think I probably took I remember I probably took six or seven images there not all of them worked finally enough the ones which had her shoes in and everything just she was just a bit too far away and it didn't quite you know the look wasn't right but but this you know going back to her pose and this is a pose that she came up with it's she's engaged with the camera she's looking at the camera although I don't always like the models looking at the camera in that particular instance it just works right she's laying there kind of you know casually as if she does this every single day what she probably does as a working model you know but look look here I am I've bought this Gucci suit you know and and I'm just going to relax and and those are just the the sort of images that I love there's you know it's there's no rhyme or reason to it it's just it's just is there's yeah these are this is this is South Bank you know there's one of the busiest places in London South Bank in London you can actually see St Paul's Cathedral just a little bit yeah it's just peeking down in the drizzle yeah coming on the mist and and freezing cold day rain you can see it's dry where she's standing but if you look just beside her it's pouring with rain this and we dressed her in a swimsuit because of the rain and it's the river and it just felt right and so again you know so talking about backgrounds there's again this is just a a nice shape that sort of worked with the image and you know there's an old London in the background and I just I've walked that past there you know a million times and and not really seen it as a as a background for a shoot but it it works but that raises another question I wanted to ask you is when you because you're you're based in London and and I'm going to make an assumption the majority of your shoots are in London most occur in London do you keep like a mental note things where you go this would be kind of cool I definitely do that and I'd say you know I snap a few images with my with my iPhone and stuff but often it's also done on the day if you just go back to that last image this I found this image on the day I had the shoot arranged with this model this is a building site and you know the builders obviously said you can't come in and to the site without hard hats and stuff but you can stand in the entrance to the door and I you know you've got the natural light coming in from one side these old stairs just again for me it was just one of those places that worked I could see that the juxtaposition between like the kind of the more clean of his the outfit and stuff and then yeah those stairs I'm instantly drawn to that right because it they look like some of the stairs in my house yeah living in an old house but yeah beautiful you know sort of just yeah being aware of of the possibility for photography you know for the locations oh for sure I mean and you know again you know love a lovely location but and in this case pre-scouted and stuff but we didn't you know we hadn't really sorted this shot I again I just felt that the the shape of the model and the way the rock stuck up it just kind of worked together and but but you know although that's a great location in the UK in Dan and Cornwall it's um you know I actually love shooting at locations that I haven't pre-scouted and I just turn up and go yeah okay this will work this is a an example of that it's a market in central London um trying to think where it is let the lane or somewhere and you know we just turned up after the market had finished but before they'd cleared away the market stalls and post the model in there and sure we get you know there's a few people kind of come up to us and say can we help or can we do this or can we you know I moved the the big orange table so that it worked as a backdrop and was that orange table originally in the shot so like so it was originally and then think where we need to kind of maybe separate it out somehow no so the orange table was you know was actually flat and we we propped it up and it just works as one of those because it's it is a remarkable image because you know in one regard it feels like a very studio kind of photograph because if you if you discard all you know the um you know the environment it's got that sort of studio where you kind of feel with the light and everything and yet then it also has you know the some pallets and there's rubbish in the background you're talking about your things going on and it's it just it it's yeah it's remarkable I'm sorry I don't have any more words to say about that and I love I love it it just goes to show that you know you don't need grandiose environments no no absolutely not the other crates literally this was only shots a few weeks ago literally walked around the corner there were these bread crates I knew what the model was wearing obviously and I thought yeah it's just great we had him standing on the bread crates as well a bit later on and you know those sorts of things they've got so much texture and and it's also kind of I think it kind of contextualizes the image because it's not a studio shot it's not a guy you know showing off his muscles he didn't know what he was going to be wearing or not wearing and you know it's just I don't know there's something about it that just kind of says you know we just turn up that those were there and let's shoot the image okay this is also this and I included this I included this shot because it's really you know the rubbish bag the assistant sort of dived in and removed the rubbish bag and I said no no put it back it's you know it's exactly where it was and and you know the the background again it's not a clean background there's shops and bikes and you know you can see I'm shooting with you know quite a depth of field there so I haven't I haven't blurred out the background um I like it it's real life it's it's a street in London now you kind of get you know you said that I like it right and I'm interested do you ever get any pushback from magazines or you know sort of people who sort of commission images or what have you going ah you and your rubbish bags do you get that or have you send the expectation that if you hire Psy or Psy takes pictures this is what you get I mean you know look of course not everybody likes every image and you know one's always supplying a lot more images and then they'll make you know that whether it's a client or whether it's a magazine or whatever they'll make a selection that you know they'll choose their selection and and not everybody gets it you know um but but then that that's the you know that is the beauty of photography is everybody has a different idea of what makes it a cool image I see that yes and and that is that's a great thing yeah so I mean the sorry to interrupt you the tree the the tree shot um I yeah just bring it back up a second because you say you say that as soon as I've taken I know I know I'm sorry like if the tree shot I'm like there we're among friends that's the tree shot there we go so the tree shot I'd look to the again it's one of these things I'd walk past a number of times and I thought you know I've got to use that tree it's kind of just a tree on the street tonight you see there's a kind of a toilet thing behind yeah so notice that yeah it doesn't matter but then and actually it was it was really hard for the model to climb as she kept kind of slipping down the tree and it's only you know her her the foot you see kind of closest to the corner of the frame it's only I don't know two or three feet off the ground but it's really slippery and it's not as easy as it looked but she did it she got up there and the image is just you know for me it was just a great image there again I like it it's something again you're I think you're less understanding that the people who are you know watching want to try their own approach photography would would do well to pick up on is that there does feel like you have a sense of freedom in regards to how you photograph and the way that you approach a shoot and if that that's something that I hope you know a lot of people were getting from watching this is it just do your thing man I wish I'd thought of that I guess that's absolutely true I think I do shoot with a lot of freedom and and I don't constrain myself myself and and I think that um you know that there are no there are no wrong ways that not every group shot is great but but I don't you know I don't think I don't set out thinking this is wrong this is right you know I or I've got to shoot it this way or you know so I you know yeah you're right I have a lot of freedom when I shoot the freedom is freedom is paramount yeah exactly yeah so the um with your tree image that you know there's a lot of things you know that tree was going off outside and the lady in the horse trough and and what have you there were and you mentioned also about the original picture in the car park that the cropping's all a little bit just ever so you know just you know there's bits hanging off there and if you've talking about the freedom to break the frame yeah which I think feels this is going to feel like it's something that certainly from my perspective you know when I was starting out photography you told there were certain things that you had to do you know the subject needs to be the sun behind you and and include everything right and um of the subject and of course that's not the case at all is it um well I mean you know you know there's no rights and no wrongs and and I'm certainly not holding up my photography as as better than everyone else's or anyone else's actually but um but this particular picture and I've seen other photographers who who've shot a similar sort of shot but with a horse's head cropped which actually I I really like I wish I'd done that on that shot as well I know literally and you sort of see this kind of headless horse and it and it it's not the most obvious shot I mean I I cropped the horse I could just step back a little bit and got the horse in shot but I didn't want it because we know what we know what the back end of a horse looks like you know it's kind of there we don't need to actually see it to know that the horse has got hind legs so um so in when I was working in magazines we used to do uh you know uh we used to sort of cut out images um where you know you take one image you you cut it out in Photoshop and you place it back onto the same image and that way you can end up with um a model standing in front of a logo or something you know so the the mask head of the magazine or whatever it appears to be behind the model even though the model standing in a in a location and you you know and I suppose what I'm trying to do is this is a version of that is it you know this guy's arm it is kind of coming out towards you we know it brings you in to the image I think and and the idea of breaking the frame for me is to say you know don't frame everything perfectly let let the the photo you know let your mind create some of the image did did you find this was because I'd imagine these days does it is this is like an unconscious process that you you do now like this this particular image is that something you just kind of it just happens or do you have to still work at it uh that's a really good question Alice and the truth is I have to work at it I have to actually you know when I'm looking through the camera actually have to move it away from from central because you know the it's so normal isn't it when we're looking through the camera to to try and centralize an image and obviously if you're using autofocus which I wasn't on any of these shots the you know the the focus points generally start up in the middle and okay we can move them you know to the edges but but you know most shots are centered around the middle and and I actually prefer images that aren't um I don't it's not so much a rule of thoughts this is this is really not I mean it's of course it is centered but I like the way the foot is cropped and again just another step back and I would have got it all in there but I don't want it all in there because I want to connect in some ways I want the model to be able to be stepping out of the photograph does that make sense it does and I think you know I'm often sort of talking about um the uh the impressionist yeah because photography was sort of getting going with the impressionist was there and and they would have things going out of the frame doing much the similar you know with the horse and and what have you said taking their their cue from photography you know like the dog's here there's a head and a dog and then there's backside of a dog that it does make you kind of feel like there's more going on yeah rather than you talked about being drawn into the frame uh with with this gentleman and I kind of sort of see it from another perspective that it's kind of this this image has a bit of movement to it although it feels somewhat static because of his nature because of that arm yeah through there feels a little bit more dynamic so essentially you know going back to your point about everybody kind of looks at the images sort of different ways I think um and you know and again as I say there's no right and wrongs and and I also like images which you know where you stepped back but really I guess what I was I guess the point I'm really trying to make is that you you don't have to capture all of the image all of the time um you can take a part of the image and leave some you know some negative space and and allow your brain to fill in some of those gaps and that lets you engage with the image a bit more absolutely I was just this this particular photograph I really love the lighting that softness you know the the gauge you mentioned about the you know often having the models not look to you wasn't this that very shallow depth of field on this one yeah you know which which again lends itself to that sort of airy dreamy sort of nurse and I think if had you had the entire you know his entire head in the image then it loses some of you I think what you you know like a mistake almost yeah because we don't know what's what's on stuff that's you know it's a fascinating sort of thing and I'm glad that he was that you you find it something you know that you have to kind of work at it because it does it from my perspective I sometimes go this feels unnatural and you have to I feel like I have to force it but you know if you don't then you never get the picture no I think you you know I think you're always working here that I knew every every shot you you you're drawing on your own experience you're drawing on you know what you know what you know has has worked in the past and what and and also you're you know creating new ideas so so from my point of view I think um you know be experimental and um you know but but don't be constrained here we come back to that thing again you know the freedom to shoot is that you know don't be constrained by the frame of of the image um you know let let allow the the image to come out of the frame excellent advice just let the let that image live live in the real world when I look at your images right although I'm not hugely familiar with with your body work I'm starting to get a feel for the Psy style right that you know that's the kind of look and and you've got here that is that you know one piece of advice is about owning a style and you know and so that's kind of leads into sort of two questions there's one is how did you come to this because obviously these are hugely away from your motorsport days I'd imagine right and how did you arrive at this done how did you kind of know when you'd found it so um it's funny you said other people of course say the same to me you know uh you know that's your styles I I don't know what my style is I have I haven't a clue what my style is um it's nice that people couldn't recognize my work from you know I get a feel for my work from various images um but but I think the point really is that I wanted to to get across to people is to say um you know we might take inspiration from other photographers but at the end of the day um no one's going to hire you if you just create the same work as somebody else they'll just go to somebody else so um it's important to be original and authentic and it's really hard to be original and authentic these days because let's face it you know every single thing has been done but you've got to put your own twist on things so that you create your own style and um like I said I don't know exactly what my style is but um but but I I guess we've covered some of it today you know in allowing myself the freedom to to shoot um what I want to shoot and you know and and literally not you know not taking another image and you know and or another person's image another photographer's style I want to create my own style and and have the freedom to actually do that so um again I want I I would just encourage people to to experiment find out what works for you and you know and run with it don't don't get too um hung up on what other people are producing because at the end of the day um they'll they'll produce what they want to produce but you aren't them so so you know kind of become your own person and and own your own work basically that's yeah that's so good advice I think you know just be your own person and it's interesting that you say that you don't know your own style and maybe this is why people tend to fall over themselves when they're trying to find a style is that ultimately it's not something that you can really define yeah is that we don't work in a checkbox sort of system here that you know people have looked at my work that's very clearly an alex photograph and you go well thank you but I didn't specifically shoot it in a specific way because that's my style I just photographed it and and so that is it is difficult to to find you know something that you kind of go well if I was to define my own images yeah they are this or that or something yeah it's a you know of course you know the the beauty of photography is we we we you know we never stop learning we you know and and our style will probably change over time and this and the other I should point out this one is is um an homage to having said own your own style here's a picture where this is an homage to a great um uh Norman Parkinson uh photographer on vogue uh in the 50s and 60s and um we wanted to recreate a modern version of that shot of his shot famous shot is very dramatic isn't it yeah and um but but but coming back to to to owning style is you know what what is right and what is wrong uh it is down to you and it's down to you know how how you create your own image and and there's a there's a lot of um people who are really worried about whether they've got an image right but actually an image can be wrong and right at the same time then this is a classic case in point you know what no why would you put a tree in front of the clothes you're trying to picture because you and because it adds interest to it and yes you can't see some of the clothes and people go yeah that's typical fashion you know they they want to show you the clothes and then they don't actually show you the clothes yeah but it's all about the mood that that paints because it it questions you you're looking at it and you think what why you know why did I put that why did he put that tree right in front of the model because most people wouldn't do it so you know and it's not about being you know you know trying to do the opposite of what people would do it's it's just about being a bit more playful I mean I think humor should come into it there was there was an image here earlier that we were talking this did make me laugh this particular one of those this you know this lady and there's a giant and you kind of yeah I was you know you sort of sit there and that would be I think one of those things that you know why would you do that and well why not you know you can almost imagine you know somebody sitting there going ah there's but I can't photograph here or I'd have to have her on this side or something well where you just kind of gone yeah you know bolts here the bolts here I mean obviously I shot that deliberately so you know one of the things is that you immediately see the bolt and it draws you into her face and the eye and the makeup and and everything and the you know the lines and all that sort of thing but there's also some humor and you know it's like it's almost Frankenstein isn't it it's like the bolt sticking out you know and and again it's not taking your work too seriously I mean although you know it wasn't a shot that I got home and thought god what's that bolt doing you know I shot it knowing that the bolt is there but but also because it makes the image isn't perfect I like the imperfection the bolt is you know it sticks out a piece of wood so let's use it so again it's another one of those ones where the you know the the location plays into your hands and and you and you should use it fantastic I love this picture yeah this this is absolutely gorgeous it's it's on one hand it's very simple you know because it's it's it there's not a huge amount going on and it's got you know you're talking about that tree earlier you know and here we got I'd imagine some sort of pillar or something that's cutting the frame vertically in half yeah and so on the one hand you've got all these pastels and the other hand you've got that whatever people have done on the background there then that skateboard and you know the the hair was that lovely red and just and then the hint of a cigarette just you know just just in there it's it's gorgeous yeah I mean I can't say too much more about that image I think I think you're you're right it's a it is a pillar and the pillar obviously was painted in the same color and I just saw the light you know the way the light was was reflecting off that pillar just for the sake of people who are maybe and maybe not familiar about how you actually do this you know put things close to the frame and and then you know have them blow like this can you just give them a very brief you know so outline of how you how you achieve this so so often when there's something you know this isn't metallic as it turns out but often something metallic or or something you know that's closer closer to the camera it will it will pick up a little bit of sunlight and I mean if it isn't picking up sunlight it often this this this process doesn't work as well so it so it's really no you know they talk about photographers you know knowing about you know how to work with light and stuff but but I don't really see it on on that level all I do is I'm looking for you know if I was to move that pillar or move around the image slightly and shoot it would still be a nice straight shot but the the thing that makes it interesting for me is that she's bisected by this the you know the pillar and it as you say it kind of chops off the the the cigar she was smoking is actually a cigar and you know and yeah so I'm looking for these things all the time I'm always looking for something you know something in the foreground that might add to the image or you know or actually interrupt the image you know in a way that that is contra to how um you know a perfect image might be so I'm looking for things that disrupt the image disrupt the image yeah what a again a great a great so back to the statement you know Simon elbow disrupt your images that's what I want to say yeah that kind of shallow depth to feel where you got these things in in here so they you know they frame because often we talk about those things as framing elements but you know I think you've kind of looked at them as more of an active player in in the image you know I do I do um you know um some you know some and and you know you can always find them with a location you'd never know what you're going to find but it's really just looking for the little bits that that will add interest to the image and as I say you know that if you go down onto the south bank you'll find these things with a big bolt sticking out and it's a matter of most people don't use them in their in their shots but I thought it was playful to use it so I think they're lovely now we have no folder of your own I would just say sigh and work so this is you know just pictures I think these are kind of the obvious just you know images that you you like and that you sort of shared with do you have any advice to people who may want to either you know get into fashion photography that you would give them you know you'd say don't do it I um I think that I think the the first thing I would say is you you know um you don't need to be technically gifted with the camera cameras are so good these days you you know you you know forget the technical stuff albeit you know that's something that I'm sure interests you Alex and it and it interests me but but the the technical side of things it you know is not as important as just creating an image and and when it comes to fashion I think you know just let your imagination go wild you know I'm always amazed by um by some of the creativity that I see in the students that I you know that I teach fashion photography to some of them come up with the most amazing stuff and and you know it's just really having you know having good ideas and and being prepared to to try them not not everything works and you know and unfortunately when you're shooting on film that's an expansive process but but you know it but but you will often find something that you think wow yeah that really does work so so that's what I would say is but you know be creative and and don't limit yourself don't limit yourself that's how because it's easier said than done don't limit yourself is there is there's something that you particularly if you're having an off day you just kind of go I'm not feeling it something's not quite good is there's something that you do or that you suggest your students to get over that that you know somehow kind of just clear out the system and and get you back into a sort of a free flow of of photography well I mean I think you've now done there you know for free flow is is vital you know when you're in when you're in flow you you you know everything works doesn't it and everything feels easy the the these images you know this image for instance that this is a lovely old country house which is you know beautiful great big rooms sort of ballroom and this room and that room and and this was a kind of little boot room on the way to the other rooms where we were were going to shoot and I just somehow it just worked for for me it was you know there was just kind of cobwebs and stuff and the light is you know just love it I um but anyway coming back to your point how do I kind of get into flow so it's a good question I don't know but I do I do think that the that if you don't constrain yourself and if you let yourself um try some of these things breaking the frame and being a bit free with this and don't clear the rubbish away from the shots and stuff you'll be amazed at at the images you can create because it doesn't you don't then have to have you know perfect shooting conditions so um here's a here's a shot where just tones the back the you know the model is wearing those clothes picks a background that's toned in and you know it's it's it's sort of inconsequential but it but it works the you know the background is just a few dead plants but actually it's it's the right tone and everything so who do you take inspiration from because you mentioned Norman Parkinson earlier yeah so is there are other people both you know historical people or your modern current working people who you just kind of go wow every time you look at their work there's something new that you go I love that I love that yeah I mean you know obviously there are a lot of photographers I admire I mean you're gonna tell us work I really love um or Carlos Clark um modern photographers Campbell Addy um Alexander Seladragas a photographer working in New York shooting on film Campbell Addy shoots on film um Sarah Moon um I you know there are a lot of photographers whose work I admire and and you know sometimes I think how the hell they produce that image you know I mean uh it's you know I think um I think for me I like photographers who who create a vibe um and and you know uh a feeling because because you know people if you if you're not coming from a fashion background they assume that fashion is about shooting clothes but it's not really about shooting clothes it's about shooting a mood and creating um imagery that that that makes you um think and dream and aspire and um you know it gets you excited and and and sort of you know gets your emotions going and you know fashion photography frequently you can't see half their clothes it's not about you know it it's about because when ultimately when you're wearing those clothes it's it's how you feel wearing those clothes and the mood it puts you in so it's not actually about capturing you know the detail of the clothing and stuff so so I like photographers whose work captures a mood much more than captures necessarily an image um and and you know um Sarah Moon if you go and have a look at her work it's it's um incredibly um the you know emotive shall we say there's a lot of movement and you know and there's a lot of um there's a lot of escapism in in the photograph so so a lot of the things that we've talked about today really I suppose are a form of escapism you know be you know not letting not being bound by the frame of the of the image um you know uh letting yourself feel free to create it's all about escapism for me and and so I suppose I use that in my work and I admire other photographers who do the same escapism that's okay every time you sort of see you drop these awesome like knowledge bombs boom boom boom boom boom I don't know where I get them from so that yeah I love I've loved talking with you today so I think you know your your photography is is beautiful that freedom of expression that you have is is great I think you know I hope the people who have picked up on when they've been looking at your work have gone do you know this isn't actually it's not technical photography so there's not lots of fancy lighting and stuff it's almost like you've just set a stage that you found you know the stage that you found to have somebody dance with you for sure where you're taking those photographs so thank you so much for your insights side you have a website do you have anywhere else because I think you do do some courses you like to plug or anything like that no I probably won't plug my my course I'd you know perhaps I should but um uh well the London College of Style so um I you know I shoot for them quite a lot but um but really it's um uh Si Melba shoots dot com is my website and I'll put the link for you guys in the description yeah my Instagram as well at Si underscore Melba underscore shoots but um you know Alex it's been an absolute pleasure oh I love the channel um really want to contribute something and I think if I could just at my last sort of my you know kind of parting few words would be um you know don't take uh my word as as gospel for the way you should shoot I think just you know um just allow yourself the freedom to experiment in a way I guess that I have done um to create your own imagery and and you know that way you will get to a great picture there we go another knowledgeable thank you all right so Si thank you ever so much thank you guys for watching along with Si um you know let me know in the comments what you think you know about Si's work is it awesome is it potentials who knows right I'm sure it'll be some discussion but anyway thank you ever so much and if you've enjoyed this one check out this video over here