 Good afternoon, everyone. It's theCUBE live at VMware Explorer 23, hot Venetian Expo. We've been here all day. This is our first day of coverage, of three days of CUBE coverage. We have two sets. Lisa Martin here with Rob Fitche, John Furrier and Dave Vellante on the other set. We're about to have a really fun, spirited conversation. We've got some news to break to you. And we've got a couple of guests here to help break it. Josh Odgers is here, the founder and CEO of End-to-End Enterprise Architecture and Matthias Eisner, partner at Comdivision. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Fantastic, thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. There's some news. You already broke it elsewhere, but we're going to break it here on theCUBE. Josh, talk to us about what you guys have with SNU, what's exciting. Yeah, look, we're really excited. Basically, Comdivision and End-to-End Enterprise Architecture formed a strategic alliance. So we've got a global team of experts, VCDX certified, highly certified architects, and now we're going to deliver consistent architecture globally to our customers. What will the alliance prioritize, especially from a customer demand perspective? Yeah, so delivering consistent outcomes. So at the moment in architecture, it's very inconsistent. So this is one of the things we're trying to focus on is making sure documentation as well as the business outcomes and the implementation is done consistently at a high level. Nice. And when you're talking that you're delivering it all over the place, where do you deliver? What's like kind of the markets you're addressing and what are the customers that you're looking after look like? So if I'm sitting there looking and I need a VMware expert, then I'm trying to figure out all the stuff that was just announced today and how that applies because I want to use modern, I'm building modern apps and I'm maybe somewhat in AWS, maybe somewhat in Azure, and I'm trying to figure that all out with my on-prem. What does that customer look like to you? So as far as our reach was your first question. So Amir is very well covered by Comm Division. Comm Division's been around for a very long time. Might let Matthias talk to Comm Division a bit more. Yeah, tell us, give us a backstory. Yeah, Comm Division, we're firstly based in Germany, Münster, that's our headquarters. That's where it all started in 1996. We have offices in Belgium, Austria, and even in the U.S. So we moved into the whole VMware and cloud business starting in the mid of 2000s and that's where we started building the whole cloud journey and moved along the whole path. So then we met Charles Autrus a few years ago. Yeah, so yeah, we've actually known each other a long time, obviously in the VMware community and the VCDX communities. So basically Comm Division CEO Eve reached out to me and he said, oh, I really like what you're doing. And we discussed how well aligned we are in terms of our goals for customers and what we're trying to achieve as our companies. And we thought, why not create that alliance so we can do it globally? So we've got Amir, the Americas, and APJ covered with VCDXes in every geographic. So yeah. Matias, talk about the value of this relationship, the alliance from Comm Division's perspective and what value it's gonna help you guys deliver. So first of all, what George mentioned, we are thinking in a pretty similar way in terms of we have a customer-centric approach on building a solution. Many are thinking about we only chase huge customers, huge projects, but that's not the main point. We are focusing on what is business critical, what is mission critical, and build a solution around to support the business needs. We support customers in many different industries like service providers, automated, financial industry. So it's all over the place, but because in the end, the industry doesn't matter. It's always about the business outcome we focus on and how to architect the proper solution to support the business needs. And that's what customers want, right? It's all about meeting them where they are, helping them achieve their outcomes and their objectives. Absolutely, and also it's not so much the size of the customer, but the complexity of their requirements. So some customers in Australia, for example, are a lot smaller than in the US, but their requirements are just as complicated. So it's actually more difficult to architect a business critical solution under those constraints. So that's where that expertise is really required. Yeah, it makes sense, and I think, help people understand why the VDX certification, VDCX, VCDX, I can't even get the acronyms right, is such an important piece of that and why that is because there's some people who may be not as familiar with that certification. Yeah, look, absolutely. I think VCDX is not very well known, but it's effectively the PhD of VMware. So you have to go through the VCP level. You have to take multiple VMware certified advanced professional exams to then get your VCIX, implementation expert badge, and then you have to submit your documentation set to be reviewed by VMware to see that it's up to a standard. Following that, you actually attend an in-person defense where you present that and you're quizzed by a panel of experts. So this is not a multiple choice exam that you can kind of fluke and guess. This is something you have to prove expertise throughout the whole journey. So that's why we love it. That's why we have six VCDXs, in fact, in our alliance. So... And on top of that, I personally think it's a very sad story that the global knowledge about the whole VCDX program is not very huge. It's not a very common certification. And companies are not specific, your customers are not specifically asking for highly certified people. I once had the story that they were asking for a VCAP and we said, we have a VCDX. Yeah, I don't want that. I want a real certification. So it's not common knowledge. But on top of that, from our perspective, the VCDX is only a starting point. It's your first step on a journey to be a more complete or a total architect and provide an even better solution. I feel like you guys could be like the superheroes, the tag team together to raise more awareness for this and help folks understand the value in it to them, their organization, and their customers. Yeah, we're definitely trying to do that. But I think what Matias said is true. The methodologies we learn from VCDX and other expert level architecture certifications, we're building on that. I had my VCX 12 years ago. So we haven't been stagnant for 12 years, right? We're growing from there. So we're building that expert level architecture, methodologies, documentation sets, and business outcomes on top of those proven methodologies. Oh, sorry. Think about going to a doctor and he tries to cure you with the knowledge 12 years ago. Doesn't work at all. You don't want that. It's the same for architects. You need to be ahead of technology to provide the proper solution. And there's different categories for it as well, right? Are there different parts of the certification specialties? And is that how that works? Or is it just very general with all the VCVX? There is four different tracks. So there is a data center virtualization. There is a network virtualization, desktop, and there's also cloud. So yeah, we have all bases covered in terms of VCVXs. So and VCAP as well. So pretty much everyone, I think, between our alliance has double VCAP as a minimum. What's double VCAP? So that's the VMware certified advanced professional, which is the prerequisite for the VCVX. So we have a very high bar in terms of our staff. Even if they're not VCVX, I would say because they apply VCVX methodology, they're already there and above in a lot of cases. So working together to provide expert services globally. Talk a little bit about code development. You guys go way back and tell your friends, what does that look like and how are you guys achieving that? Yeah, so actually we're working on a really cool project at the moment, which is still under wraps, but we look forward to announcing that on theCUBE for sure. There's some stage in the future. And the idea of this is to create something, first of all, unique in the market, that's going to make sure that we can deliver future-proofed solutions to customers that are very measurable against business requirements. So I think the big lacking in architecture today is we have a lot of solution architects who are very technical, but they don't know how to map that back to the business. So what we're doing is both the enterprise architecture on the business side and the solution architecture on the technical side and bringing them together because they have to come together to get that good outcome. And I see the dynamic duo helping them come together. Hopefully, we'll see. Yeah, well it's important. Absolutely. And I think I love how you're talking about it because again, having been on your side of the fence and built products and gone out and helped customers and deployed them and also way back in the day when it was GSX, I actually started out on my little VMware journey where we were bringing print servers together for a very large insurance company that I worked for. But I think what are you seeing from your customers that has, because I think it seems like, even the messaging VMware has had, it's about upskilling the customers and bringing them on this cloud journey. What are you seeing from your customers and how you're helping them as well? So starting with customers, our perspective is start with getting your basics done right instead of trying to do fancy implementations. You need to be the rock solid fundamental otherwise you can't build a house on top of it. So what we see a lot are customers, they're buying stuff, either hardware, software licenses, whatever. And then they start trying to link all the bits and pieces together and wondering why the whole solution they think it is, it's not working at all, not solving any business they have. So what we try is to convince customers saying, guys, let's tell the business requirements, start with the architecture, then get into the process of buying hardware and software we really need instead of creating shelfware, right? You have a ton of software sitting there not being used. The only thing it does is consumes money and space. And doesn't deliver an outcome. Right, and that's the problem where costs go up and the outcomes aren't there to be able to demonstrate the value and what you bought in the first place. It sounds to me like you guys are really kind of aligning these two sides, helping them come together to understand the business requirements, the architecture, how that needs to dovetail to deliver that value. And it has to come first. So I remember throughout my career, someone says, hey Josh, can you do a design for us? Of course, I would love to. And then they say, here's the hardware and it's too late. At this stage, I've got all these constraints to work around and the customer has paid good money for all the hardware and software and they don't get the outcome they expect. So we want to make sure customers engage us early, engage us often, of course. And then we do the design from a business and a technical perspective first. Once that is validated, then we can deliver the physical layer. So the conceptual layer comes first, logical and then physical. Which makes sense to a third degree. That sounds like that might be a cultural change though, within organizations to adopt. How do you do in our last minute or so here? How do you help companies on that cultural transformation? Because that's not an easy thing for people that are used to doing it one way to adapt to a different way that actually is better. I think they know. They felt the pain. So when I make a statement like that that we need to do it first, they go, that makes sense. The last project didn't go that well. So absolutely. And first, what I would like to add, you also need to understand the customer's business. Otherwise you can't provide a proper solution. Absolutely right. Right. You need to kind of get down and double click, understand that. What are they trying to do? Who are they trying to, what's the customer experience they're trying to deliver? How are they doing it now? How can they be doing it better? Guys, thank you so much for joining, Robin and me on the program, talking about what you're doing together. Exciting news. We look forward to seeing the play in action sometimes then. Absolutely. In your next announcement. Absolutely. Yeah. On the queue. Yeah, maybe at the next explore. Hey, you never know. Awesome guys. Thank you so much. I appreciate your insights and your time. Thank you. For our guests and for Rob Chachet, I'm Lisa Martin. Keep it right here on theCUBE. The leader in live tech coverage.