 and let's welcome Ray Ming to be here right. Okay, Ray Ming. Hello, hey everyone. Thanks Chloe for having me. Great to be here and chatting with you guys and to be sharing my journey and also my own 2 cents on Tesla or any other investing topics that we may be chatting about. Fantastic, thank you so much Ray Ming for taking up your time as well and because of the sudden technical difficulty we have to suddenly switch to Zoom but regardless, I think Zoom is even better because you literally get to ask Ray Ming question directly. Now, maybe Ray Ming, we can start off by letting our audience know a little bit more about you and letting me know a little bit more about you as well. Can you share with me a little bit about your investing journey, how you get started and how you manage to achieve where you are today to be like... I've been investing about 10 to 12 years now but of course as a full-time investor maybe only the last maybe 4-5 years suddenly went from retail investor to full-time investor it was a slow transition no one goes from suddenly being employed to a full-time investor overnight no one quit their job it's more like a semi-transition now so back then when I was in uni my path was a bit different by day I was a uni student and by night I was an online poker player so I was doing that for part-time income and I was pretty good at making money online so I made quite a my first spot of goal and from there on I started to learn how to invest simply because I got this money that I made from my part-time income as a uni student so my path was quite a bit different from my peers so I started uni and finance economics and finance and that gave me a decent foundation or background even among my uni peers we talked about investing which local company we're going to buy and all that so I think that helps also after I graduated I continued to play poker and I built up a sizeable portfolio and because of that there's a lot of ups and downs in investing so I slowly hone my skills and of course back then when I was young and I thought and of course I also got burned speculating on penny stocks so I also have my own shares of battle scars but I think it's quite interesting and even full journey so far I see so if you don't mind can you share with us for the past 4 years how has your life become I think a lot of people cannot envision how is it like to be a full time what kind of life are you living so I was living the work from home life before it was popular before Covid so in a way every day I wake up I will look at my stocks and look at what are the latest news regarding my company so for example I'm heavily concentrated in Tesla I'll be looking at Tesla news specifically on the company not so much on what the mainstream media is saying and also look specifically like for example I would say Tesla Investors Tesla Owners I would get a bit more insights into the day to day of the companies in my portfolio then I will also be reading learning, watching investing podcast YouTube channels like yours and also reading up so I read quite widely investing and non-investing topics also so for example right now I'm reading this book do you know it by Christopher Mayer he is the author of the 100 baggers I think it's quite a popular investing books non-investing right now I'm reading this book by John D Rockefeller he is one of the richest so he wrote this it's more of a compilation of 38 letters to his son so I thought it was quite a good so I rented out the kind of book so I spent a lot of time reading so to be honest it's quite a boring lifestyle but it's so to me because I'm lazy I don't want to go out sometimes even nowadays we are going to go out once or twice to meet up with some of my friends or like Tesla other Tesla Investors just to chit chat and also at the same time I also want to make sure I am not just in my own space I want to always meet up especially for example if I hear in other investors who have a bearish view on Tesla I would love to meet up with them because they will play a devil's advocate to my own PC Wow, I think later on we can have a little bit of debate on Tesla and I think it's very important what you say you constantly how many hours do you mind sharing how many hours I never really it really depends but maybe 3-4 hours a day should have not one stretch so I wake up, drink coffee create my messages maybe I'll read 1-2 hours so usually when I first wake up I'm more fresh so I'll read new content where it's a bit more deep work where I need to absorb like children books just because I have interest in it but it might not be investing related and I think it's also very important to read non-investing related books because at the end of the day it's like read boundary disciplinary and that's how along the way I think when I first started investing is just investing maybe financial or having a bit of a counting background might help but how does learning about history, philosophy, psychology how does that actually impact investing but actually it does for example right now market it goes in cycles they are great at the top and they are fair and all that so all these are just basic psychology or basic understanding on human psychology it does help when once enter the market because recently I'm also thinking about reading the history books because that's what Charlie Munger say, don't focus on forecast focus on what happen in the history then learn investing the best way so do you have any books to recommend in terms of stock market history and human psychology? I think one book by Ray Dalio the changing world or something like that I think it's quite it's quite a deep read also but I think there's a youtube version of it he condense 40 minutes his whole book into 40 minutes on his channel you can find it online on youtube so it shares cycle goals she talk about the bigger cycle so the context is bigger cycles every dynasty will have its ups and downs before the US was the most powerful there was a British and before the British there was the Dutch and so on and no one country or empire will last more than a few hundred years and if you look at so this is based on history and if we extrapolate the future maybe the US has been dominant for the last hundred years and they have been showing signs of cracks and declines so everyone knows about China and all this so he did share what the indicators to spot where when the decline is so along the decline is not exactly overnight or even a few years but it could stretch over a few decades so he shared specific metrics where we can see where along the curve are we so there's one and our book that I read is guns germs and steel but even for me this is quite a cheap book also you know the world is where it is right now like how the European powers how do they get ahead like the European colonies compared to let's say like South America or the South America or the South Africa countries if I'm not wrong, I think this book is recommended by Charlie Monberg so these are very good books are one have time to read okay I think later on we can also go back to talking about US and China like how do you actually diversify in case anything goes wrong we can talk about that later but in the meantime at that time I was also very curious what gave you the courage to quit your full-time job it wasn't bad context was I guess based on what I was doing even back in uni, playing online poker and all that I was also very comfortable going off the beaten path traveling to a new country I don't like to take the just going the last travel route on that note, I don't have a pressure or a social pressure everyone is doing this, I should follow the herd why am I doing this real thing I never thought of it that way but more I thought about am I comfortable doing it and I guess once my portfolio reach a certain size whereby you just compound and then you realize I only put 80-20 where I only put 20% of my time and effort and hit space into let's say my investing portfolio but that's 80% of my results whereas 80% of my time is maybe working for a company per se but my salary is only let's say 100k and if your portfolio can give you more returns than that and then that begs the question maybe you maybe not full time yet but maybe a semi full time so some of my friends they're also semi full time investors whereby they kind of reach a certain middle management or whatever and then they don't want to increase their workload or maybe they want to reduce their time spent and I don't want to be on your payroll anymore but I don't mind come back on what kind of consultations for my expertise like that per project basis that free some of their time to do what they want explore their passions when they are in their 30s 40s or spend time with your family and kids it definitely is not an overnight kind of success it took many years investing like over 10 more than 10 years ago if investors over here they want to also have this goal to eventually become a full time investor what do you think is the realistic timeframe to be able to achieve this goal well it really depends on individuals I mean it's a very wide spectrum but I would say if one is asking that question hey should I take the leap of faith or not lah to be a full time not then probably that person he or she is not ready that's a good one to ask then probably you know I'm not ready yet lah that's why I try to marry this girl then probably ya but when you're ready everything will feel online your heart, your brain it just feels right it feels like right move to make but if there's a conflict where you need to it maybe I should maybe I should not there's a conflict within you then probably not ready yet no hurry no hurry already an investor right full time investor just the word full time you quit your job like why do you need to if you're having a good salary you probably climb up to a sizable and then your corporate I assume one is coming out of the corporate ladder and you're making sizable then why need to cut off that income stream like just continue use that money to like save up well keep your expenses low and build up your portfolio lah ya so back to your question like it depends on how one invests like let's say let's say example lah let's keep number simple let's say one take home 5k and then you keep expenses low maybe you can invest 2 or 3k it depends on how there's a bit of luck involved also you hit a few good bull runs like maybe just invest in tesla or even general bull market then x or 5x over the next 3 years quite possible lah then your 100k portfolio might become half a million already or 300k ya that might help but there's a bit of luck factor involved also ya but maybe over the next 3 years we could have a severe downturn or bearables involved you know how much money you are pumping in every month your dollar cost averaging in and Mr market is it kind to you that kind of thing based on how it's performing lah ya so coming back to this question of like the market can be very volatile and all this right so when you are investing full time do you actually draw out cash from your portfolio if not how do you sustain your lifestyle so i always keep although i full time invest i also have a few other income stream that i can cover my expenses so i don't really have to re-draw my capital much per se but i always try to keep at least 2.5 years of operating expenses lah as a backup if i can sustain so i always think worst case scenario like army style worst thing that can happen and prep for it lah so maybe the market over the next 2 years might be down, Tesla might be down for whatever reason i need to have the time to recover to let the stock price sometimes stock price can say stay suppressed for prolonged period ya so i need to have that time and i cannot be like sell my stocks at the worst possible time because i need it to buy prep or whatsoever ya so having that buffer i think is very it is a good move to have lah which is why again beg your question i wouldn't recommend anyone quitting their full time job to be a full time investment because mentally you suddenly lost your main income stream you will be very suddenly you care more about the market now ya you don't care because you are still taking home 5k, 10k, every month day to day livelihood is not affected but when you go full time and you go full time investor then your stress 10x also ya ya how do you overcome it how do you deal with it for the past 3-4 years i guess i was lucky also when i sold him in this transition miss market was very kind my portfolio was green all the way every year, he just compounded 20-30% year on year so i didn't have a severe draw down where i have to really test whether i can withstand 2-3 years or suppress prices and all that i guess did play a part in my journey as an investor la ya but if i were to be talking about this and giving advice i would recommend to arrow on the caution side even when you think you are already full time investor there isn't harm to be a bit more cautious and just give yourself another 2-3 years let's say you are making 80k a year or 35 year old guy or girl 80k a year 3 years there maybe 240k you need to take ya and to be honest based on what i see most of them they have something on the side first they keep themselves entertained and also as a part time income stream so most of them will do consultancy work for their previous companies and also a tip if one want to become full time investor then it does make sense that one network or no more full time investor friends because you will then understand their lifestyle for example if i'm a Tesla investor i will naturally want to hang out with more Tesla investors ya because we have a similar house but as a aspiring full time investor you want to network with people who have been there who are 2-3 years ahead of you in the curve and you want to check with them what are their challenges, struggles their first year they went full time what was their most stressful period so that will give you a crack first time i go to uni then i want to talk to my seniors ask them your first year what are the main challenges you face same i think that analogic translate well to everything but specifically investing so if the people who hang out with all not full time investors then it's very hard for you to make the transition ya because you don't see it as a normal thing but once you start networking people basically in Singapore there's a lot of people who are just living off their portfolio their equity portfolio per se then the more you hang out with them, the more you realise that this is not just doable or possible but actually i can do it on that because i'm just like them they're also not very smart because i know what i know but they're also average people but if they can do it, i also can do it it's like the environment shape you and environment means to see the possibility ya you are the average of the 6% you hang out with so like if your 6% your 6 most favourite friends don't have a full time investor then you need to go out of your way to change that ya that's right and i can just a quick recap what we said just now so how do you know whether are you ready if you're asking yourself this question most likely you're not ready and the second thing is you can see Ray Ming really think the worst case scenario which is what Charlie Munger always think invert what can be the worst thing that can happen then that's why if are you prepared for that at least as 2 years even 2.5 years of operating expenses so that you do not have to be going through this kind of emotion struggle when a market comes down or when it stops just to buy bread and also have different income so that you don't need to liquidate the portfolio for no reason you still have income coming in and at the same time have an environment of full time investor network that will really give you a better sense of what is it like to be a full time investor fantastic now my next question is like i understand talking about Tesla just now you did mention that you are very bullish on Tesla if you don't like sharing what is the percentage allocation of Tesla inside your portfolio right now about 65% to 70% i see so 2.5 2.5 do you build up this portfolio do you build up this allocation along the years or how did it go it didn't like overnight go to 70% it started at like maybe started at 2% even as when my very first like over the last few years as i learn more about Tesla my conversion level increase also they have like Tesla Elon Musk they have shown that they can actually execute upon what they promised to do so since they hit their KPS so okay and i trust level increase and also i feel like right now in the market they are right now in the future growth so i feel like this opportunity is good let's say you got this punch card you can only have 20 companies i feel like Tesla is one of the 20 companies that i should have generational company that i should have in my portfolio so the budget obviously build up over time i won't recommend anyone jumping in for example using swimming as analogy become an olympic swimmer overnight everyone start from the baby pool ya so so they build up the position yes so where was the first time you purchase your 2% about 2017-2018 if i remember correctly okay okay i see that was like a few years before covid and then very few people talk about Tesla my initial was actually just to like i bought like 10 shares back then Tesla was like very low so 10 shares is and i got in just to so i have this habit once it's in my portfolio then i will keep an eye on it on the news and all that and i'm not sure we are going off topic but back then i was very blessed to back then ken he was overseas and then this investors group and then i think he went around and say let's share your top 3 companies each so we just go one round like that and then back then was like this mastercard and i think google and i said he is like one of his top 3 was Tesla this was i think back in 2017-2018 ya back then like although i know the company but i don't know much about it and so much is like this weirdo and all that but then when he said that but i have a lot of respect for ken he is a very good teacher and mentor so like obviously he know something or Tesla that i do not know so because on that and then i say okay that's interesting let me reason that was that i will say the start of my journey with Tesla i see so like right now like understand like Tesla has actually run up a lot i personally think that even though like Elon Musk has been executing very well whatever he say he really deliver no doubt on that but do you think that having a 65% allocation into one single company is a little bit too risky knowing that you know the future of EV just not too sure can it really come true or not i think this is up to individual to gauge there's two ways to go about when it comes to portfolio location one is diversification you don't have more than 10% or 20% in one company and you are very safe but then you have very safe returns also which is fine, which is what most people want which is the recommended path so i actually don't recommend anyone to have a concentrated position in any companies unless they really want to and they feel comfortable with it and there's another way of looking at it which is like i think going back for China Manga they also say diversification is for idiots so when you diversify it's more to protect your portfolio for oneself so for me i feel based on what i'm saying with Tesla, i feel very okay having a concentrated position of course i grounded i know the risk so the worst case scenario it's like Elon Musk die tomorrow and then the day after he is die he is number 2 die the next day after that kind of thing so we will talk about that having a concentrated portfolio what is buying actionable after that my SOP immediately after it happen army always have SOP when something happen what is the immediate step because at that point of time emotions are high no one have time to think i feel okay but at the same time it's not a path that i recommend for anyone it's a crazy path to be honest i feel i need to have a concentrated position in Tesla sometimes but also there are ways to protect yourself from the downside also so if for example if you have a whole bit of cash just to hold cash on the side so that in case the share price drop at least you are not like for example let's say i could have 60% position in Tesla but i have 20% cash also so it does help to have a bit of buffer can i say that cash is not your 2 to 2.5 years of operating expenses cash in the portfolio sitting there waiting for a very severe undervalue situations for example when Tesla late last year in December it hit $100 plus severely undervalue scenarios it will be a good time to add i'm also very curious at that time we know that the Tesla really went through this world what was your emotion back then when you saw that stock drop to $90 maybe in a period of time it was $90 do you ah that kind of feeling or do you overcome that already i guess 2 to 2.5 years and also because i didn't have such a big swing previously over say the last 5 years and as my portfolio grew my portfolio grew quite significantly so when it dropped back down with Tesla it was like 7 figures and there was the biggest downswing conviction was challenged i think go back to drawing board law and say i think there is definitely a bit of doubt i will question myself and say did i make a wrong other fundamentals deteriorating did i make a wrong move anywhere maybe a bit of second guessing but after i go through the process actually all is normal it's not just Tesla dropping the whole general market dropping because of interest rates so it was a general market systematic pull down but i thought if everything is okay then it's a good time to add i wish i had more cash when it was $100 plus so if you don't mind sharing what are your mental model when it comes to situations like this for example you talk about check list what are those check list that you will look through to make yourself in check be in a downturn where everything is great no one wants to be buying Tesla even at $100 and most people will have a question hey did i make a wrong judgement should i sell so if i'm selling i want to be selling i want to be selling for the right reasons not the wrong reasons and i want to be buying more i want to be buying for the right reasons so selling what are the right reasons for selling for example if i make a wrong judgement if Tesla is not as good as i thought or maybe it is but the fundamentals start to deteriorate so for example let's say the management their decision making is no longer optimized for the long term or whatever culture start to shift fundamentals start to deteriorate and that could be a reason for selling because it is no longer the reason you bought it for initially so that could be a reason second reason is you need the cash for whatever emergency non-investing related your personal life you just need the cash the price you have to sell means you have to sell when the fundamentals are are no longer as good so when that happens usually you want to trim your position so for example when the fundamentals deteriorate it won't suddenly go from great generation company overnight to the worst company in the world so i might still want to hold a position in it but maybe i don't want to have 70% concentrated in it i might want to reduce it to 50% i want to start trimming down my position so i will start to trim so that could be a good reason for selling just like buying you go buy so you can slowly buy and trimming you can also slowly trim that reason for selling is panik selling long i sell because of fear i sell because every day shopping 10% i want to 100$ can you reach 50$ definitely i sell now at 100 i write back 50 that is probably not the right reason to sell so as there is no change downward change in the fundamentals i do not want to be selling i want to be adding i see and i think just now you did mention that the draw down for you was like 7 figure was that right wow that is really interesting i think i do i cannot control mr market how it moves i can control what i do so what i do is try to keep myself sane in that really fearful and stressful time meet up more with tesla owner investors it's cool but we hang out and then we try to play and also tesla investor i realise in general are quite independent in your thinking and so we try to place devil's advocates to whatever is going on to the tc's and then we come to the conclusion that the tc's is still intact in fact it's still if you look at the quarter to quarter the numbers are getting better and better so the share price is going from $400 to $100 but the numbers all the right numbers that we are looking at are going in the opposite direction what does that mean that means people are fearful it's time to be greedy so you buy more but buy whatever you can and don't do stupid things buying on average that kind of thing unnecessary stress so actually investing is simple but it's not easy losing weight is simple simple means the technical know how it less work out more how to make money investing is very simple you might not know how to choose but you can dollar cost average into good ETFs you will get that one it's simple but might not be easy to do sometimes they are external influence there's a lot of news out there your friend tell you don't buy now now it's the worst time recession coming U.S. going to war there will always be a lot of this out there so it's not easy and talking about just now you talk about cash in terms of allocation do you always set certain percentage of cash no i didn't use to do so i always thought if i have cash why not just put it in but i thought that was perhaps one of the mistake i made last year as evolution of the investor i want to be definitely i'm not the best investor i'm always making mistakes i made was that i should be holding some cash so that i can enter because in last year going into that job right i wasn't holding as much cash as i wanted so i didn't get to buy as much as i can during Tesla or when general market was severely discounted i think holding cash also helps so this is the monetary benefit but it does help psychology also when you hold a certain amount of cash and it differs from individual could be 10% 20% it gives you like a psychological margin of safety net because i know that wow i still got 20% billet so i can always market you there to drop i got 20% cash i can enter at any point of time even when i want to and i can slowly deploy this extra cash compared to if i don't have cash i can't control because i'm an out of moves i can only look at mr market and then hold it because i don't have cash there's no moves left for me as an investor so holding cash yes i think is always a good cautious move to have but when you hold cash you must know that this cash is not hold for fun symbolic but when will the time come for me to use it you would really use it you have to use it and i need write that out in advance that means like okay so for example if Tesla drop to x amount price then i will enter 2% of that 20% cash for example so i will have so my actionable have to be planned out in advance before the time come cannot be when you drop ready then i go buy now or not 235 maybe tomorrow then it's very depend on my emotions today so it's a very non-systematic car order mode today i'm not feeling good feeling greedy then it's not objective wow i really love that i can see that you're always very systematic in terms of your planning i think army train you very well it's poker train you very well because i know people who play poker they always think very systematically and they think in bets which bet will give them the optimal ROI the lower probability of losing i actually i actually feel like my poker days does give me a bit of each because poker and investing is very similar and a lot of investors they play like even Charlie Munger or Warren Buffett they might not play poker they play bridge so all these games it puts you in situation where you have to make rich reward decision so you're thinking based on probabilistic based on there's no 100% a certainty you always have to make decision based on there's a random like uncertainty involved so i guess it does help and to like for example poker when you have good cards then you want to bet big but when you have bad cards then maybe you bet small so for example if i see a generational company so i want to be betting big no point i put 5% portfolio okay like 10x i assume money but then it's like where's the opportunity so sizing interesting and if you right now what you learn from last year that you think that cash you could have at least as like more so one more thing we talk about just now was like how can a cash is one of the way to protect yourself against the draw down against volatility and another way to protect our ignorance is to have a portfolio right so what's your view on like we've for example Ray Dalim he talk about the rise and fall of different nations different power and with China like seems to be on the rise while US going down do you personally think that it's wise to diversify in other countries i think it's okay if there is a good opportunity so like a very a conservative portfolio can have i know equities in US equities like your blue chips US blue chips and then some China equities like Alibaba, some local like your STI even by DBS bank no one will fault you for lock in 6% dividend or whatsoever so diversified portfolio i think it's okay you feel comfortable with it la for me to be honest i am not at the level where i know how that like the changing world or the how does that play out to the markets like over let's say a next 5-10 years time frame it would be minimal there's high probability that based on my estimate there's a high probability that impact is minimal or there's like zero impact at all you know like this could be 50 years down the line for all we know maybe it's talking about cycles so how does that impact i do not know if one does not feel comfortable having too much allocation in US companies then it's okay to lower that percentage i feel like i guess most people are thinking worst case scenario US, China go to world war 3 then the stock market go to shit as long as for however long world war 3 takes so when you base again the probability of that happening so there's worst case here the probability of that happening over the next 5-10 years might be 0.001% whatever percentage you dimit la so is that a big enough percentage to worry about that it kind of remind me of what i read this morning about the joys of compounding about Gautam bay and talk about great investors, Warren Buffet they don't care about interest rate whatsoever what they truly focus on is the fundamental of the business still is good then just hold on to it i subscribe to this school of thought so to translate your words don't care about the macro, interest rate how the recession is doing right now or which stage of the recession but care more about the companies that you are invested in or want to invest in so that is where i feel like my thesis on Tesla makes a lot of sense like this Tesla there's a lot of qualitative traits for few of the good traits of a good company so as long as all the checklists of that is checked then who cares about what is going on there long run a good company they will continue to execute well and the shepherds eventually will have to reflect the outstanding business and if you are really a long-term investor then it might take a while, 3-5 years or however long and if over the next 3 years the shepherds doesn't move north it's actually good because as long as the business keep improving that's your chance just talk about maybe 6 months ago Tesla shepherds was also drop to about 230 right now but in these 6 months the shepherds is the same but the company over the last 2 quarters might have improved quite a bit so all in all i feel just focus specifically on the company fundamentals you won't go that wrong and for most investors out there let's say there's like 100 participants most of them might not have the time because everyone got full time job and after that they still have commitments they might not have the time to do that so one way is go the ETF route execute the funds basket of all this quality companies you can't go too wrong also or hybrid of both so for example you have maybe 30% in SPY 30% in QQQ and then 10% of your own specific individual choosing because you want to have you like to choose your own companies also kept at 10% so it could be Tesla or Palantir or whatever companies you like then maybe another 20% on China companies then there's quite a diversified portfolio already i see for yourself do you also diversify in other asset class apart from equity properties but recently i wait am i lagging or is framing lagging oh i think you just lag a little bit okay yes i do but i will say right now i am quite 90% concentrated in equities other asset classes crypto a bit but more for like a diversification against the fiat currency yeah that's about it so mostly equity because i feel like it's very liquid and it allows me easy to go in and out if there's a need to and i think like some of our participants are also very curious like for Tesla do you trade or you just buy and hold do i trade i think i do a hybrid of both sometimes i do trade in or small so i have like what chicken dinner say but do not touch portfolio and then there's like eG portfolio where i sell cover calls sell puts on them just to keep myself entertained so i think that is very i think it helps psychological because as an investor sometimes if you just buy and hold you do nothing then you sometimes hand eG so you need to have a hand eG allocation you want to trade the hell out of it also can like so for me could be i just pay i look at the chart so sometimes i still i used to trade more than last time no but you know once the trader always the trader so sometimes i see the chart i feel like i got break out i either to the long side or short side i might take a long or short position might not be Tesla might be other companies also because i can trade anything or sometimes i could like if i feel the price is a bit too on the high side like when you reach like 280 support on it when it's a bit like at the 240 support i mean selling puts the shares so i do do that but that's not to say that i recommend you do it feels comfortable for you if having an eG portfolio like helps you to don't touch your main portfolio then why not yeah but the eG portfolio will be a small percentage as compared to your long term holding percentage it's just like your let's say we talk about a diet so you eat clean every day of the week sometimes you're so sensitive you need a cheat day or cheat meal or cheat snack so once you eat ice cream i think it's fine so for me it's like a lot of my cheat meal or cheat location something like that and i think also asking your long positions or does it include i think mainly a shares and then a little bit of a options, sell puts, cover call i do not have that much buy call or dip course because i feel where we are right now the market have run up quite a lot this year i mean it's a recovery, it's a bounce but tech stocks are up like 30% general like we talk about QQQ over the next 6 months there might not be a lot upside so i don't feel there's a need to have like buy cause like right now because it's speculative trade and i'm losing the time they came up with options so like maybe now it's not the time to be like risk on mode now now it's still a time to be defensive accumulating yeah very good and SK is asking do you buy to average the cost like right now like we 65% portfolio inside Tesla when opportunity come you will even consider adding some more i guess for most people if your dollar cost averaging every month you have a plan to do that you can make it systematic so that means you think guess what of the question you buy on every Thursday of the month for example because of the price you just buy there's one if you want to have a bit more TA a bit more technical then you can only buy when it reach like 50MA so you pull back to a certain support level then you buy all at one shot whatever you accumulate then you just keep storing cash until next time it drop back down to the 50MA or the EMA 20 or whatever is your support but you need to set this in advance so you want to keep it as systematic and non-emotional as possible i see so you can do both but it really depends on whichever is more comfortable for you i see and i think okay so Chiwa i think is very interested in your itchy hand portfolio do you use options such as spread or like i don't do vertical stress i don't sell i feel like i'm not a very good vertical spread seller i feel like my age as a vertical spread seller you cap your reach reward is fixed there's no and in the long run unless you have certain age in it for example okay you see a bounce so that's why you're selling a vertical spread and you're selling you're doing a spread so that your margin requirement is cap $5 wide or $10 wide spread okay i think it's fine but i personally don't do it but of course yeah and i think i just want to wrap up this interview with the last question to Raymond like what is after these decades of investing like what's your if you can only have one advice to all the investors out here what will be that advice to help them to become better generic general advice hmm everything very hard to just think of one advice i think continue to keep learning yeah might not be the advice you guys want to hear but the power of commanding not only works for your portfolio like it goes from 4 figure, 5 figure, 6 figure but it also works for your learning so whatever you're investing or reading it stays with you forever this knowledge, this skill set your circle competency is always expanding and it will definitely help you like over the years while i'm learning investing i think it will help me to spot the next Tesla sooner so like i have an age when the next Tesla come along, i am ready compared to maybe 7 years ago where i am not as good so always keep learning wow i think that is very helpful like what you said, knowledge compound and it's like a skill set you'll be better be able to respond and in fact anticipate the next investing wave or whatsoever and i think it's really awesome and if people want to find out more about you and your work where can they go and find you oh i seldom share videos nowadays just more lazy but sometimes i still do like share my thoughts on market updates on Tesla, earnings course i got an investing channel on telegram i think the channel name is invest with Raymin you just search it on telegram i put a link inside the chat it's a t-doc thanks Raymin Invest thanks so much for the sharing and i think Raymin he really put in a lot of thoughts in whatever things that he does so you can see that from his own way of describing his whole thought process you can see that he is a very very thoughtful and systematic investor and if you follow his telegram channel definitely you will understand more about his thought process as well and together with him continue to level out and i also hope Raymin can start posting more so that more people can get to learn from you i best try your best in the meantime for those who have not follow my telegram channel you can also choose to follow me as well t-doc me slash aligato investor so for me i am more general in terms of investing i'm not super 100% bullish on any single company but i think my investing thoughts come from, for example i do a lot of reading in the past i think since one year ago trying to catch up with Raymin i also thought share what i learned today inside my telegram channel so for those who want to learn feel free to follow both of us as well and thank you so much Raymin once again for being here i enjoy my time i enjoy learning from you so much and let's catch up again and thanks everybody for joining us tonight as well for what we guys learned a lot and continue to learn, continue to stay invested and let's have fun in our investing journey never stop learning never stop learning exactly thank you everybody have a good good night thank you guys thanks for joining the session see you