 Hello and let's talk about the ongoing farmers protests. The farmers protests have been going on since November 26. Right now, hundreds of thousands of farmers are camped in various parts on the outskirts of Delhi. They're determined that they will not go back or end their protests unless their demands have been met by the government. And now this has become more than just a gathering of farmers. This is an all India movement and all India protests right now. Earlier in the day, the Samyukta Kisan Morcha which is a conglomeration of farmers unions or farmers organizations made a very strong statement that they would not withdraw until the government accepted its demands. Now, the government has been kind of wishy-washy on this issue. Prime Minister Narendra Modi of course said that their intentions were good. He talked about rumors which had been spread regarding farmers and farm laws. But the fact is that the farmers on the ground clearly know what the situation is. They want the three laws which were passed in a very undemocratic manner to be withdrawn. So, this is the situation right now. It's likely to escalate in the coming days as well as according to reports and statements by the Samyukta Kisan Morcha. More farmers are on the way to areas in the Delhi-Haryana border. So, and the farmers have also come very prepared. They've brought food. They've brought various amenities and they're willing to actually stick it out and confront the government on this issue. We spoke to news click Sonali who's been on the ground for the past few days. She's talked to farmers, talked to farmers from various parts of Haryana and Punjab who have come here and he tells us what the demands are. Thank you Sonali for joining us. So, you've been on the ground for the past few days talking to farmers, seeing the protests that have been continuing. Of course, it's started on the 26th of November and today is the 30th. The farmers still very much enthusiastic, determined that the government listen to the demands. So, could you first maybe describe what's happening on the ground right now in the sense that where exactly are the farmers gathering right now? Where have they sort of set up camp and what is the progression of farmers who are coming from other parts of this country as well? Yeah. So, at the moment, there are three main points where the farmers have set up their protest sites. One is which is the main one, which is the single border. It's Delhi-Haryana border near Narela and that connects Delhi to Punjab. It goes to Kanal and all. The other border is again Delhi-Haryana border. It's near Bahadur girl. It's called Tikri border. That's where a huge number of farmers have come with their tractor and trolleys and I've been there and to be honest, I was trying to walk and see where it ends and it doesn't end. So, it's huge and the third one, which was the latest, is on the Gajipur border, which is Delhi and Uttar Pradesh border, where a couple of hundred farmers from the western UP have gathered and they're in support of the farmers from Punjab and Haryana and obviously, they're also raising their own demands. So, that's that. The farmers are in Punjab and Haryana especially. They've been protesting for the last two months and since the three farm laws were passed and the main demand is very simple actually. They are saying that just grab the farm bills and we'll be out of your way. I'll tell you a little bit about these three farm bills. What are the main problems with these farm bills are? So, there are basically three things, APMC Mondays, Markets and the Essential Commodity Act and there is another one which promotes the contract farm. So, the first thing is the APMC Markets. These are markets set up by state governments at district levels and the farmers can go there and sell their crops and produce to licensed people, licensed persons or there are commission agents also. So, and these markets are also where the government procure a lot of, I mean this is the only place where actually the government procure crops from the farmers which is a big, it's a big deal for them because if they are not able to sell it to the private parties, the government assures them that we'll sell it and this is also the place where they get MSP which is the minimum support price which the government sets on few crops, not all of them, few, very few in fact. But again, there is corruption in the system. We agree with that. Farmers are not given MSP or they are not making enough profit which is true but that does not mean that you do away with the system because now the government is saying that we have given farmers the freedom to go and sell their produce anywhere in the country. In our country, more than 60% of the farmers, they have small or marginal holdings. They don't have huge crops, they don't have huge amount of crops. So, you can't expect a farmer from let's say from Punjab and go all the way to Kerala and sell his produce. That is just ridiculous for him because he will not even make profit. He will be in debt forever just for the travel. It's a huge country. You can't do this. And also that the government is saying you don't have to go anywhere. The traders can come and buy stuff right from your farms. That's also problematic because again, small and marginal farmers, they don't have huge crops. They don't have huge amount of produce. So, they will not be in a good position to bargain the price. And the government, again, with this the main demand for the farmers is that government gives them in written that it will continue to set a minimum support price. So, at least they have some sort of assurance that no, this is the limit. This much we will get for our crop. But the government, I don't know what is their point. They are saying that we will still continue to set minimum support price but we can't just go by their words and the farmers can't just go by their words. So, that's one thing. The other thing is the essential commodities act. The government has made amendment in that. So, basically that act provides that food grains, stock holders or traders can only stock a certain amount of food grains and food stuff. And the government also can regulate their prices. So, it's not completely left to the market. Now, what the government has done, they are saying that the government will only regulate the prices and the stock amount if there is some sort of emergency like if there is a war or a famine or if there is a food grain crisis. What this will do eventually is that you have given free hand to the big traders that they can stock as much food grains or things like edible oil, oils or potatoes. I mean, we can see like this is every day example, onion. Every year we see onion prices soar in a particular season because there is hoarding and it's not something which is a rumor, it's true. There are reports that there is hoarding of onions. What they do is just they stop the supply and the demand goes up and they can just sell it on much expensive prices. So, that's the point and the government is completely letting go of its responsibility to maintain that the people in the country, they still have food to eat. And the third point which is the contract farming, the government has allowed that the farmers can go in agreement with a sponsor company which will provide them, they can go into a contract and say, you know, you produce this particular crop in this much amount and you can see like not, let's see if a chips company, they won't say, you know, you should grow wheat or whatever, you have to grow potatoes for them. So, what are we going to eat? Chips and potatoes and that's all. This is, you are essentially putting our food security at stake and in a country where we are like India is doing so horrible on global hunger index and still the government is willing to go ahead with this, it's just astonishing. Absolutely. So, Sonali, I wanted to talk to you about basically what the farmers have been saying, you raised these three issues which are very important of course. Now, one of the key arguments being made by the supporters of the government especially is that, you know, this is all kind of a rumor being spread by the opposition and, you know, certain vested interests and this is actually going to liberate the farmers and we have a very powerful cross-section of farmers of various backgrounds. Like you said, a lot of mid-level farmers, a lot of some farmers with some more land, a lot of cultural workers. So, how are they basically responding to this claim that, you know, this is all just some kind of rumor mongering by vested interests against the government? I think this is the go-to answer of this government or anything like for anything. So, if the farmers and the thing is the farmers are saying if it is for our benefit then why are we on streets and they are not ill-informed farmers or if it's not like they don't know about agriculture, they know about agriculture more than you and me and the people who are sitting in AC offices and making policies definitely because this is their livelihood. So, if the government is so sure that it's what it's doing is right and then talk to them, convince them, nobody is asking you, nobody is stopping the government from talking to the farmers if and because and the thing is because they don't have an answer. They don't have an answer. You don't, you know, all this, all these systems are going to basically kill the agriculture sector in our country. They are just going to promote corporatization of agriculture and the farmers are going to lose their lands or so because eventually that's what's going to happen. If the government is so sure that this won't happen then give us, then give the farmers, not us, but give the farmers a concrete plan, okay, you know, this will not happen or even for the MSP, why the government is not giving them in written that MSP will be there forever. Absolutely, right and in this context one interesting thing that has come out of course is the fact that you mentioned at the beginning also that the farmers have been protesting for months and it is also clear that they have actually been preparing for this protest for months as well because there's been reports which Newsclick has extensively covered of the fact that they have actually brought say food, materials and they came prepared knowing that this is going to be a long struggle. So could you maybe talk a bit about the mood on the ground with that as well? It's actually very positive, you know, you get a very positive feeling especially in this time when there is a pandemic going on. Farmers are so well prepared. They are saying like we can stay on the streets for six months and I talked to a few of them, they said like you know, we can do this in batches, we are actually going to do this in batches, like we are here and some more people will come and people will go back because they also know you can't sustain if everybody is on the street all the time, you cannot sustain a long protest and they know that this will be a long protest going by the history of this government because it is not willing to listen to anyone. I went to, I think on Saturday and yesterday also, but you know, I reached there at 10 in the morning and people from different villages because they are obviously coming from different villages, so they know these people, they are living in like, even though they're all there but they're still like in their own groups and they were all making food in the morning. It was like, you know, the government can do whatever it wants to do but we are here till these three farm bills are scrapped. Absolutely and it does look like Amit Shah has said that there's a discussion planned on the third, although again, like you said, for instance, the government is refusing to give any kind of commitments. One of the key demands the government has been continuing to make is that farmers come to an assigned spot and sit there and protest and that has been a very interesting development because farmers have said that they will not do that, so could you tell us why? The assigned spot which the government has mentioned is the Burrari ground rates in one corner of Delhi, nobody will go there. I think the government doesn't understand the whole purpose of protest in general because you are protesting so the people and the government hear what you are trying to say and you also have to gain solidarity within the people also which this protest is actually gaining and that's why I think the government is very scared also and I mean it should be actually. So the Burrari ground where the government is sending them, it's a huge ground but it's in one corner, it's so far away from the government where the actual government is and these people, the farmers actually came to go to parliament because that's where the farm laws were passed and it passed in a very undemocratic, let's if we can say manner but still and so and there's another thing that some of the farmers are alleging, I've talked to some leaders and they are alleging that anyone who is going into that ground the police is taking their whole information where they're coming from, everything so they're saying that they've created a jail, anyone who goes inside they are not allowed outside so once you go in that ground you will be there for however long the government decides that you should be there so that's another issue that they don't want to be kept in let's, they're calling it a semi-jail so they are saying like we are not going to go there if the government is, if it really wants to talk to us there will be no conditions applied of if you want to talk to us, you come and talk to us, we are willing to talk. Thank you so much Sonali for talking to us. That's all we have time for today, we'll be back tomorrow with more news from the country and the world, until then keep watching NewsClick.