 Mae cyrraedd gwneud, iawn yn unrhyw ynghylch iawn. Mae cyrraedd gwneud yr rhaid, yn ym 1.10988, yn y rhai bwrg Ffergus Ewing, ond machiwch arferwyd Ffergus Ewing. Ieisaf ym mwyaf, jeithio, i chi'n bwysig, o'r eitem ni'n cwrwm hyswedd gweithio i ddissiliadau'n cyd-eefi gynhyrchu, ac i gael i'r ffergus Ewing i ddissiliadau, the motion minister in around 14 minutes please. Presiding Officer, today in the chamber we are particularly grateful that the Scottish Parliament has provided its assistance to allow British sign language users to follow the debate in their language, that a palantipist is also providing text content to other visitors and the gallery is fully accessible to visitors using wheelchairs. I know that we are proud of the continued efforts that the Parliament makes in order that we are accessible to all and with a range of facilities that are freely available to enhance the visitor experience and engagement. Of course, we are always keen to get feedback from those as to the sufficiency and quality of those provisions. I am delighted to introduce this debate on accessible tourism. This is, I believe, the first occasion at least in a Government motion where we have specifically debated this most important topic. It may therefore be helpful if I begin by setting out what we mean. There are 11 million disabled people living in the UK, 16 per cent of the population. Only two million of them enjoy an annual holiday. Of this figure, let's bear in mind that only 4 per cent of those people use a wheelchair, two million have sight impairments and nine million are registered deaf and hard of hearing. Looking at it on the global stage, there are 1.3 billion people, 1,300 million people with a disability, an emerging market, the size of China. In 2009-10, the accessible tourism spend in Scotland was £325 million. By 2013, the spend had risen to £391 million, an increase of £66 million. The most significant aspect of those figures is the percentages of the overall spend. In 2009, it was 6 per cent of the overall figure, but it had risen to 14 per cent by 2013. Once disabled people have found accommodation that suits their needs, they can be loyal customers returning year on year. Indeed, it is estimated that around 70 per cent of disabled people are able to travel. However, because of lack of accessible accommodation and basic facilities, they do not. Disabled people tend not to travel alone. They are often accompanied by carers, by family and by friends. That increases occupancy and, from the perspective of the accommodation provider, brings in extra revenue. What does all that mean and signify? I think that there are two clear conclusions. First of all, and most important of all, it is a matter of social responsibility to seek to enable and facilitate the enjoyment of a holiday or break for everyone, including people with a disability. Secondly, by doing so, we create business opportunities for the whole sector and for the whole country. Therefore, it is a matter on the one hand of social responsibility that disabled people, as with everyone else, have the opportunity and ability to enjoy a holiday, but also that business opportunities are created by our so-doing. Those I believe are the two key points upon which I hope we can all agree and take away from this debate today. In order to build on the excellent progress that has been made in Scotland on accessible tourism and to work together to achieve the enormous potential benefits to disabled people and their family, friend and carers in adding the pleasure and enjoyment of a holiday to their lives and to see the tourism sector lead the way in grabbing new opportunities that are in a world in which more and more people are able to enjoy a holiday. Most or all of us in this chamber, I suspect, will enjoy a holiday each year, whether it is in Scotland, elsewhere in the UK or further afield. Perhaps, too, it is fair to say that we now and most of us here and many throughout the country take that for granted. We take it for granted that we will enjoy a holiday. We are fortunate, but perhaps we just take that for granted that we will enjoy a holiday, a break from the routine, a chance to get away from the talk, a chance to relax and recharge the batteries. I wonder if, considering accessible holidays, he extends that to people who suffer degrees of ill health that mean that they cannot get insurance for travel distance from home and that, therefore, there is another segment, not simply disabled people but people who are suffering ill health, who might equally benefit from the initiatives that he is describing. I agree that people, particularly with impaired mobility, perhaps are people of many more years than they would like. Impaired mobility has, in particular, difficulties in that respect. I think that Mr Stevenson makes a perfectly valid point. As I have highlighted, the reality is that, for the majority of disabled people—and it is actually around four out of five, four out of five disabled people do not enjoy a holiday like the rest of us—I think that is wrong and I am quite confident that all of us here want to work together to see what we can do to address that. Let me say that I am very happy to accept the amendment from the Labour Party today and look forward to hearing Jenny Marra's contributions, as with all members. The reason why people with a disability may not choose to have a holiday, even though they are physically able to have a holiday or a break of a certain type, are, I think, many and varied. To understand them, we need to tackle them and to remove barriers to help people who have a disability to be able to have the confidence that they will enjoy a holiday, be catered for and be afforded respect and courtesy. First, the barriers are in part about facilities and buildings. Yes, about physical access, about ramps, about access for wheelchairs, about the physical landscape. That is recognised in planning law. The recent planning policy talked about adaptability. It has been one of the five principles that are involved, and that is right and proper. Perhaps, Presiding Officer, the significant barriers may not always be so much physical barriers but mental barriers. They are about people feeling people with a disability or, indeed, impaired mobility, as Mr Stevenson rightly points out, feeling that there would be a lack of an understanding or appreciation of their particular needs. Perhaps a nervousness that people who would be serving them, whether it is a hotel counter, a restaurant or on a train or a bus, or in a number of other varieties, may be embarrassed about dealing with them, may not really have an understanding about how to assist somebody who is hard of hearing or who is visually impaired or who is in a wheelchair or who has another form of disability. Jenny Marra, I thank the minister for giving way and I completely agree with him on the point about the mental barriers. On the physical barriers, would he join with me in applauding the work of PAMAS in Dundee, who supports families who have children and young adults with profound and multiple disabilities and their ground-breaking campaign for changing places, toilet facilities so that they can enjoy days out, not even go as far as holidays but even a day out to the shopping centre and they can take their children and young people with them? Minister, I can reimbus some of your time. I am not familiar with the particular facility but it does sound like an excellent one and I certainly endorse the sentiments that Jenny Marra has expressed. Many people with a disability have told Visit Scotland that they just want to be treated with respect and consideration. Many people with a disability say that the reason they do not go on holiday may be the hassle or the potential embarrassment that they may face by doing so. Those types of problems and situations are ones that I think we can deal with and I will give way to Dennis Robertson. I congratulate the minister for moving on to talk about people with disabilities rather than disabled people, because that in itself is a very positive step forward. I thank Dennis Robertson for his remarks. I look forward particularly to hearing what Dennis has to say in this debate, as I am sure other members will be. The heart of the approach is customer service, which embodies a can-do attitude and a willingness to understand the needs of those who have a disability. We have spent a fair amount of time visiting Scotland in meeting people who have a disability to listen to their views. I have done so in various events recently at the Botanic Gardens at the Royal Yot Britannia, taking the time to do that and also at a subsequent meeting preparatory to this debate, where a range of people who have a disability and a range of those who care for them or who are involved in assisting them put forward their views. A minute was kept of that meeting, which I think should be available for members. The point is that in order to address this problem, we need to listen to the people involved most and find out what the problems are, particularly those who deter them from taking a holiday. Even the task of booking a holiday online can be more difficult because, in addition to the tasks that we might do in booking a hotel online or a facility online, someone with a disability needs to make sure that whatever the service is being booked to accommodation, travel or other facilities that their needs can be accommodated. That is an additional task that we do not have and perhaps the online journey is one that can be made simpler to cater for that with information available at the start, not the end of online booking journeys, which I think that we all know can be frustratingly long. I praise VisitScotland, who has been driving this forward, with a very practical training programme, an online training programme. On 23 June, I launched the online training programme, and we provided a amount of money towards it—£45,000, not a King's Ransom—but that tool is a must for all staff and managers who work in hotels, B&Bs and restaurants, and everybody who serves the public. Anyone can access this online training tool. Everyone can understand what it means. It contains very practical information about what we need to do. For example, someone who is visually impaired or is hard of hearing and has a guide dog or a hearing assistance dog likes to have some water to drink, so some hotels provide bowls of water for those dogs who need the basics in life for a dog. It is quite simple, but only once you think about it. Many other examples of this online training programme will give of that sort. I think that, seen in this light, there is a great deal of practical things that we can do. I am pleased to say that 625 businesses have registered on the programme, with 67 having completed it. I particularly commend it to those who are involved in public transport and managers to make sure that their staff are familiar with it. Of course, if staff have the opportunity to gain training of this sort, they welcome it, because they are able to provide the service that they all wish to provide. The online training programme, which is fairly modest cost, is doing well, but there is a chance that it is further to promote it. I am pleased that the RyderCup Europe has used it to train for 80 volunteers. I am very pleased that, in commonwealth games, there were considerable efforts to provide the best possible facilities to those with a disability. I see that my time is nearly coming to a close, yet I have a further eight pages of text in front of me. I can minister to give you a bit of time back, but perhaps not that much. I will chance my arm. It allows me to talk about access statements. Access statements is one of those phrases that sounds rather like the phrase that Kevin Stewart and the local government committee described as gobbledygook. That is not gobbledygook, because you see that if you have a disability and you want to visit the Royal York Britannia, you can go online and it has an access statement. It will tell you exactly what width the doors are to the toilets. It will tell you exactly what facilities are there for people with a disability. In other words, if you have a disability, an access statement tells you what you need to know. That is why access statements are important. That is what it says on that page, but there we are. To prove that it is not gobbledygook, research shows that 76 per cent of consumers say that access statements positively influence their decision to travel. For the rest of us, if we want to know that there is a swimming pool in a facility, we just look and see and there it is. If you have particular needs, you need to see that those particular needs are catered for and access statements do just that. Thank you for that, Presiding Officer. Moving to a close, how pleased I am to have had the opportunity to listen to so many people with a disability that have helped me to learn just a little bit more about their predicament, to work with Visit Scotland, in particular, who have led the way. I am engaging with counterparts in Brussels next week, if I get slipped that is, in order to have discussions with European colleagues and to talk about what we are doing in Scotland. I work with Visit Scotland on the Scottish Tourism Alliance and their chief executive, Mark Crothall, who is witnessing the debate today. I very much look forward this afternoon to having a constructive, positive and useful debate and discussion with members across all parties in the chamber and together to see what more we can do for people with a disability to enjoy something that we take for granted and something that we take as of right. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I now call Jenny Marra to speak to you and move amendment 1098.1. Ms Marra, around 10 minutes please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank the minister for bringing forward the Scottish Government's debate this afternoon on this very important topic, accessible tourism. Unlike him, I would like to start by recognising the fact that the BSL interpretation is going on in the public gallery this afternoon. I chaired the Parliament's cross-party group on deafness, and we have had a flurry of activity just recently, myself and Dennis Robertson, the SNP member of that group, campaigning for BSL interpretation to be available during the televised referendum debates. We had a bit of success with that, but I think I have still to persuade some of our mainstream broadcasters that this is an accessibility issue that they need to take seriously. I thank the minister for highlighting that and saying that work is on-going cross-party on those issues. Presiding Officer, today seems like a very timely opportunity to discuss accessible tourism. With the Commonwealth Games just behind us and the Rider Cup teeing off tomorrow, tourism has been a real focus for Scotland this year. I felt very keenly over the past few weeks, especially as a destination for political tourists this past few weeks. Tourism in Scotland not only contributes towards our economy, but it is worth reflecting that it reflects the values of our community. Because accessible tourism means opening doors to every visitor and treating them as equal, no matter what. It is to be inclusive, to welcome, to teach and to learn from others. Such inclusiveness is only possible by exercising equality in our communities. We saw the glory of equality this summer, Presiding Officer, when, for the first time in Commonwealth Games history, parasports were counted towards the main medal table. We saw the glory of equality when venues such as the Chris Hoy velodrome were built from the ground up with accessibility as a primary planning concern right from the word go. We saw the glory of equality when our biggest city in Scotland, Glasgow, opened its arms and welcomed thousands of visitors with equal warmth, equal care and equal consideration, making them feel truly part of the Commonwealth Games. How a community takes its values of equality and extends them to accommodate all visitors I think speaks volumes about its social and cultural outlook. So what does accessible tourism mean to Scotland? I think that it means the ability for all to visit and enjoy our country freely. For mothers like Samantha Buck, it means having access to disabled toilet facilities to be able to take her son Alfie, affected by multiple and profound learning disabilities on days out in Scotland. Samantha Buck is supported, in part, by the Dundee-based organisation PAMIS, who I mentioned to the minister in his opening remarks. They run campaigns like Changing Places, which many MSPs in this chamber will be aware of. That campaign aims to ensure changing facilities in public toilets for over 230,000 severely disabled people, including those with profound and multiple learning disabilities. That accessible tourism means that those with permanent disabilities—parents with young children—are able to access those toilet facilities that they need to experience an enjoyable day out or a holiday. Accessible tourism encapsulates a vision of a community that fights for equality. Alongside that, I think that the sustainable value that it adds to our economy is immense. Accessible tourism has this year been valued at more than £370 million to the Scottish economy. That is an increase of £37 million since 2009. According to recent research carried out by the European Commission, the UK was among the top three contributors to the European economy when it came to accessible tourism, contributing €86 million and 1.7 million jobs to the market, 20 per cent of the EU total. There is even more room for growth, as the minister said. If European destinations were fully accessible, that demand could increase by up to 44 per cent a year, which would result in an additional 3.4 million jobs. Those opportunities were only underlined by the fact that the minister gave us in his opening remarks that four out of five disabled people do not yet enjoy a holiday. It is for their benefit, but it is also a real benefit to the economy to make that happen. Better accessibility means higher occupancy rates in our hotels and loyal customers who keep returning. Accessible tourism reflects true equality and long-term sustainable trade. I think that tourism has a fundamental role to play in job creation and economic growth over the next decade. We applaud in our amendment today those in the accessible tourism project who are fighting to give disabled people a basic right to enjoy holidaying like all others and to remove the fear of the unknown for visitors to our cities, towns and villages and to show that we are ready to give every visitor a welcome as warm as the last. I thank the Government for its indication that it will be supporting the Labour amendment this afternoon. Efforts must be made to show the mutual benefits of businesses and consumers' gain from a strong accessible tourism industry. That ideal has been brought forward with particular strength during the Commonwealth Games this summer. Disabled sports stars and campaigners have praised the games, pointing to the impressive levels of access and the successful integration of mainstream and para sports events. Two of the most common barriers facing visitors with access needs is that poor customer service and a lack of accurate information were tackled head-on through training, innovative online tools and clear communication between staff and visitors. Ewan MacDonald is a man with motor neuron disease who set up a popular disability access review website called Ewan's Guide when he became wheelchair bound as a result of MND. Ewan praised not only the facilities at the Commonwealth Games but the communication surrounding those facilities as outstanding. For Ewan, accessible tourism means eliminating the element of the unknown, as the minister said, allowing him to enjoy sporting and music venues without fear of being turned away or unable to enter. Various disabilities called for varied solutions, and the Commonwealth Games paved the way for that, and the achievement that many across the globe can undoubtedly learn from at future events. However, it is important to reflect on some of the barriers and challenges that the Games highlighted and how we can hope to move past them in the future. While the hydro was lauded for its wheelchair-accessible options, those with scooters or difficulty walking found additional barriers, limited seating availability in food courts and long additional distances to walk around the venue. The independent living in Scotland project found events to be accessible but transport around Glasgow was not as good as usual. Accessible transport has been highlighted specifically in our capital city recently. Members will have witnessed it themselves. The recent changes to stop taxi access to the capital's Waverly station has a significant impact on accessible tourism. I understand that Network Rail took that decision at very short notice and without consultation. The station has now become even more inaccessible for people with a disability. Inclusion Scotland has said that it is inexcusable and that it is how many disabled visitors to Scotland's capital city are welcomed. Perhaps that is something from today's debate that the minister may be able to explore with Network Rail. Accessibility must be central to all planning and management decisions around our transport networks in Scotland. The spirit of the Commonwealth Games came in the form of teamwork and possibility. We need to take that and ensure that businesses and services become even more accessible to visitors. We need to support groups such as PAMAS and UNS guide excellent examples of many people out there campaigning for more accessible facilities and a boost in tourism. While the new £45,000 online training programme that has been set up by the Government has helped Scotland's tourist facilities to become more accessible, we need to constantly be updating our approach and more needs to be done to make sure that we have a better understanding of the requirements and realise that economic boost. That understanding needs to translate into long-lasting and sustainable action. I welcome this debate this afternoon. I am sure that it will be a very interesting debate, and I look forward to hearing the other speakers. I move the amendment in my name. I am pleased to be taking part in this important debate this afternoon, which comes as a refreshing return to normality after so many weeks of intense focus on constitutional matters. We all know that tourism is a major contributor to Scotland's economy, but I confess that I was not aware until preparing for this debate of the very considerable contribution of accessible tourism within that. That amounted to more than £325 million as far back as 2009, and that is a figure that has the potential to grow very significantly with improved infrastructure services and attitudes towards travellers with special access needs. The accessible tourism market encompasses not only people with permanent disabilities but also families with young children and an increasing number of senior travellers. The on-going accessible tourism project in which Capability Scotland is a key partner with Visit Scotland and the Scottish Government is doing very important work in identifying the barriers faced by holiday makers with disabilities in Scotland and in raising awareness within the tourism industry of the business benefits of accessible tourism. There is still a long way to go if Scotland is to become the most accessible tourist destinations in Europe, but the recognition of training needs within tourism businesses and the efforts being made to ensure that the industry recognises the all-round benefits to businesses and their customers from maximising accessibility are significant steps in the right direction. I, too, must briefly mention this summer's Commonwealth Games, which featured Paris sports alongside all the others and which was the most disabled friendly games in its history. Glasgow very ably rose to the challenge of accessibility for more than 350 athletes with disabilities and over 10,000 spectators with specific access needs over the two weeks of the games. This, possibly more than anything else, has helped to raise awareness with the Scottish public of the general need for accessible tourism in Scotland. The consultation events with people who have disabilities and with impairment groups carried out as part of the accessible tourism project highlighted a number of common themes, such as the need for accurate and up-to-date information on how accessible venues actually are and the often poor customer service and the staff attitudes, probably due to inadequate training on disability, equality and awareness. We have had an excellent briefing paper from ScotRail highlighting their significant and continuing efforts to improve their customers' experience and also one from Inclusion Scotland drawing our attention to their concerns about Network Rail's recent decision to ban vehicles from Waverley station. I must say that I share their concerns and that, as someone still recovering from hip replacement surgery, I personally have found the distance of taxi racks from the central hub of the station quite testing. This must be the case for many people, even though there are accessible lifts for those who need them. I endorse Jenny Marra's plea to the minister to raise this with Network Rail. Ahead of this debate, I was invited along to see an excellent facility in my own region, and I want to focus the rest of my speech and my experience there. Crathie Opportunity holidays was developed around 10 years ago as a self-catering holiday destination suitable for people with disabilities and their families. Funded entirely as a charity, Crathie holidays, situated right next to Balmoral Castle in the beautiful scenery of Upper Dyside, was the brainchild of the wife of the then minister of Crathie Kirk. A trained social worker, she was acutely aware of the lack of suitable accommodation in the area for tourists with access and other problems, and saw the dilapidated stable block next to the manse as ripe for development into a disabled friendly venue. A year or so of intensive fundraising resulted in a courtyard development of high-quality units equipped to cater for many differing needs. For example, they have state-of-the-art bedrooms, hoists, combined washbations and mirrors, which raise and lower as a unit, wheelchair-accessible kitchen worktops and cookers, and many other living aids for people with varying disabilities. Other specialist equipment can be obtained as required, but there are sometimes difficulties here. I was told that equipment that comes from the NHS is readily available, but on occasion that which comes via the council's social work department is withheld for health and safety reasons, even though the client is well versed in the use of such equipment. Hopefully, that sort of difficulty will be resolved as we go ahead with the integration of health and social care. Another problem faced by staff at Crathie holidays is the difficulty in accessing carers locally to help with getting clients dressed or ready for bed, for example. I wonder if that could be solved by training social science or nursing students to do this as a work placement during their course and as a suggestion that I intend to explore with the university in Aberdein. Earlier this year, a new lounge where visitors can meet together socially, have computer access or play games or whatever, was formally opened by the Duchess of Cornwall during one of her frequent visits to her home in nearby Birkhall. In this room, I met some of the holiday makers who were staying in the complex. They were full of praise for the accommodation, facilities and equipment, and for the small number of very dedicated staff who run the enterprise, ensuring their comfort and making them feel at home throughout their stay. They all stress that Crathie holidays are indeed holidays, not to be confused with respite care. One lady comes regularly from the south of England for her holiday at Crathie. Her family stay there, too, and there are children's recreational facilities so that all generations of the family can have a real family holiday together. Another couple come frequently from the central belt. The lady has severe physical disabilities and advanced dementia, and our husband really appreciates being able to have a holiday with his wife in appropriate accommodation and beautiful surroundings, with helpful understanding staff around him. His experience in the area beyond Crathie has not been without difficulty, however, particularly in accessing suitable toilet facilities. His wife needs a special hoist, and the only toilets with such equipment are in Aberdeen, some 40 miles away. One is in a sports complex and only available when the complex is open, and the other is in Aberdeen rather than Firmry, where there was no receptionist to give directions and no one else had heard of it. For disabled visitors without such highly specialised needs, Crathie holidays has radar keys that they can give to residents to allow them access to locked facilities when they are out and about. Of course, only a few tourists can be accommodated at any one time at Crathie, but it is an excellent venue to give people with disabilities and their families a proper holiday, and it is very worthy of replication in other tourist areas. This debate has opened my eyes to many of the problems encountered by tourists who require special and accessible facilities. I am glad that individual tourism businesses are increasingly becoming aware of the more specific needs of many of their customers and, hopefully, training their staff to treat all their clients with respect and understanding. To be the most accessible tourist destination in Europe is a very worthy aspiration, and I hope that we can achieve it. We will be supporting the Labour amendment. Many thanks. We now turn to the open debate. Speeches of around six minutes please, although I have a little bit of time in hand at this stage. I call Graeme Dey to be followed by Mark Griffin. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Expenditure by tourists with a disability in Scotland last year totalled almost £400 million, and, in financial terms, that makes it an important contributor to the tourism sector and, indeed, the wider economy. However, I think that we would all of us agree that this is not a subject matter to be considered largely in terms of pounds and pints. Regardless of the financial value of accessible tourism, as the minister indicated, it is incumbent upon all of us to render, or at least try and render Scotland not only as accessible as possible to our visitors to our country, but just as importantly, our own people seeking to explore what Scotland is to offer, because it is the right thing to do. Whilst appreciating the practical challenges, some of which simply cannot be overcome, we have to make visiting our attractions close to the experience for those with disabilities, as it is for able-bodied among us. There is no denying that significant progress has been made in that regard. In recent years, many tourism destinations have become more wheelchair-friendly with the installations of disabled toilets and ramps and a general attitudinal change. However, this better understanding of the needs of wheelchair users unfortunately appears not to be being accompanied by making tourism destinations suitable for people with other disabilities, at least not to the same degree. While it is welcome that so many organisations and companies are making their attractions, museums, hotels and wheelchair-accessible, there needs to be more done to make those sites accommodating to say the hearing impaired. Since being elected, I have still got a good working relationship with Tayside Deaf Links in Dundee, and through that gained an understanding of some of the every day avoidable difficulties that deaf people encounter. Preparing for this debate on a recent visit to the deaf hub, I raised the subject of accessing tourism facilities with some of the folk there. The general view was that their needs are far less understood than those others whose disabilities are more obvious—harsh, perhaps, but it is worth noting that only 29 per cent of people with a disability have a disability that is immediately visible. If deaf people feel that they are not being catered for, then that must give us food for thought. I heard of today, and I also asked some leading heritage tourism attractions in Tayside, how they catered for visitors with a hearing impairment or indeed who are profoundly deaf. Historic Scotland run Arborodabi, where they proactively advertise a full functional hearing loop, but that is as far as they go. The needs of the deaf community are even less well catered for at Glam's Castle. I mentioned that particular attraction to highlight the issue rather than for particular criticism. In response to my querying what provision they had for deaf visitors, I was told that deaf people are catered for in the same way as wheelchair users who, of course, could not manage up and down the stairs of an ancient building. They are provided with an excellent visual presentation, complemented by subtitles, but many deaf people cannot read English. Sign language is how they communicate. Glam's Castle is not switched on to that. It is now, and hopefully, we will see change, because we absolutely need to better consider the requirements of all sectors of our community when it comes to tourism. Is it not bizarre that many leading museum and historic sites provide headsets with an audio tour, usually available in multiple languages, yet for the hearing impaired from the domestic or wider English-speaking market, there is nothing like as much attention paid to their needs? Let us remember that one in six of our population are reckoned to be suffering from some degree of hearing loss, and that figure is set to increase to one in five by 2031 as people begin to encounter hearing issues at a younger age. There are exemplars. The Royal York Britannia, mentioned by the minister, offers BSL tablet tours with induction loops installed throughout the ship. Visitor services here in the Scottish Parliament, which, apart from the important work done within the building, is a significant tourism attraction, will provide BSL sign tours. It is happening today in the gallery. Members might have noticed that a signer in the gallery here on Tuesday relaying the entire debate to members of the public. On request, the service can also be made available for FMQs. I will continue with the positive. I am very grateful to the member for taking a brief intervention, because he highlighted the fact that BSL is here this afternoon. That is a gentle, respectful note to the member. Speed speech is very difficult for someone with BSL to keep up with. I am suitably chastised, Presiding Officer. I will continue with the positive. I should also mention, at a reasonable pace, Dundee Contemporary Arts Centre. That centre provides sign tours of new exhibitions as free events. I understand that BSL sign tours carry a cost. Qualified signers charge up to £60 an hour. However, if we are to become a truly inclusive country, we need to bite the bullet here. We need to recognise that it is not only at the end destination that those with a hearing disability struggle at. Deaf people often find it hard even to make travel and hotel arrangements. If they have no access to the internet or struggle to read English as BSL is their first language, online booking is not possible. Making a telephone booking obviously is not possible either. Usually, those with deaf or hard of hearing will turn to someone else to book on their behalf, but the manager of Tayside Deaf Links, Alana Trusty, tells me that she recently tried booking train tickets on behalf of a group of deaf ladies and encountered problems using one of them's debit cards owing to data protection issues and security issues. Obviously, we understand the need for safeguards, but we also need to think about flexibility here. Even if you succeed in booking travel as a deaf person, there are other issues that arise. As we all know, platformer gate changes and delays are usually announced over a tannoy system, often without accompanying visual indications of such changes, which in any case a deaf person might not be able to understand. To be fair to First Scot rail, they have been supporting a voluntary staff programme training employees in sign language since 2006, but the experience of deaf or hard of hearing travellers suggests that there is still much to be done. In order for Scotland to justifiably boast that it offers accessible tourism, much more must be done for all disabilities and meeting the needs of those disabilities. As I know, there are costs involved, but those will be met as more and more deaf people from within Scotland and elsewhere become better able to visit our major attractions. In any case, as I noted at the beginning of my contribution, that has to be about more than pounds and pence. I welcome the fact that we have BSL translation for the debate today and look forward to that becoming the norm rather than the exception. I encourage members to support my own British Sign Language Scotland bill, which is on a way to your office soon. Aside from that, it is important as I set out in the motion that we recognise the important contribution to the Scottish economy that accessible tourism makes, that disabled people should be able to enjoy a holiday or a break or just participate in general leisure activities that we take for granted, that Jenny Marra pointed out. We should also recognise the importance of respite for family members in a caring role. We should remember that, while caring is not a burden, it can be challenging and that the need for respite is definitely there, making accessible tourism a must for both sides of that relationship. In that context, we should acknowledge the work that has been undertaken and the progress that has been made by Visit Scotland. We should recognise that a lot of the work that has to be done by Government is making sure that the private sector is aware of the tremendous opportunities that are out there, the work that it needs to do in adapting infrastructure or just making information from the public sector more easily accessible to the public or travel companies, as the minister made that point. It has been said that the accessible tourism sector has the potential to bring in hundreds of millions of pounds per year to the Scottish economy, but what exactly are we doing to bring that business into Scotland? A simple example would be the adverts that go out across the UK and the world from Visit Scotland. Why is there never an older person in the advert? Nobody with a walking stick, a wheelchair, a person with a guide dog in those adverts. I know that I'm in danger of typecasting and picking out visible disabilities here, but does the world actually know, through our high-profile visible advertising, that Scotland is open to accessible tourism? What can we learn from the countries who really do that well? From conversations that I've had, I'm told that the world leaders in this field are Australia and Spain. What is the minister able to tell us about any dialogue that his department has had with the tourism sectors in those high-performing countries? I acknowledge that the minister anticipates perhaps meeting some of those representatives in Brussels in the near future. Is the minister also able to tell us if there are any plans to dedicate a senior member of staff to this sector with such high potential for growth and benefits to the economy within Visit Scotland? I might be wrong, but I understand that there is an individual member of staff within Visit Scotland who has that responsibility for accessible tourism, but they also have responsibilities in other areas, too. There's an excellent company who operates in common old called Altogether Travel. They act as a travel agent for supported holidays and travel. They provide a service that is unique in Scotland in that they are registered with the care commission and can provide a complete package for someone who wants to go on holiday here or abroad. Just this month, they have customers enjoying holidays in Malta and Spain, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's jealous of that, given the long referendum campaign that we've just come through. As I've said, they provide the complete package for anyone who would like a supported holiday. Altogether Travel offers care and support to older adults, individuals with physical and learning disabilities, individuals with dementia and people experiencing mental health issues and sensory impairment. They give the freedom to choose when and where someone can travel and what level of support they require. It means that people can enjoy a break on their own with friends or family, or they even have staff who act as holiday companions to provide support as and when required, which is why they are registered with the care commission. They provide that service to anyone living in Scotland, but that's just one side of their business. They provide that service. That worldwide network of contacts and planning for someone who wants to go on holiday from Scotland and spend their money elsewhere. The other side of the business that they want to develop is in attracting tourists into Scotland so that they can provide that same service that they offer to Scottish people, to everyone else in the world, to expand their business and get people from outside Scotland coming here and spending that money to raise that to help to achieve and realise that potential figure of hundreds of millions of pounds coming into the Scottish economy. They're already getting inquiries from people in other parts of the UK, and they're doing what they can to provide that service, but it is difficult. Businesses in the tourism sector here really need to adapt to that market. We know how big that market is, we know how it's out there, particularly with a population that's living longer and all that entails. Businesses need to be upfront about what they have capacity for and what they need to do to adapt to cater to that market. If altogether travel, another supported or accessible travel agency wants to grow capacity to take on clients and customers from outside Scotland and contribute more to the Scottish economy, then they'll have to be supported by the tourism sector taking action on accessibility, advertising and communication. That has started with the Minister and Visit Scotland to show that leadership. I'd like to hear the minister perhaps address some of the points that have been made and that have come directly from business involved in that sector and how we take that forward. Thank you very much. I now call Nigel Dawn to be followed by Patricia Ferguson. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I have to say that this is a fascinating debate, particularly coming where it does, as previously we mentioned, after the kerfuffle of the previous few weeks. I'm grateful to Jenny Marra in particular for raising Pamys and to many colleagues who have already mentioned BSL, partly because that means I don't need to, but partly because it shows how multifaceted this whole issue is. Tourism is clearly a national opportunity, as the minister has pointed out, but I have to say that I agree with him. It's also a social responsibility for ourselves. There is absolutely no conceivable reason why those who are disadvantaged within our society should not be able to travel around it and enjoy simply being out and about. Never mind the holidays that we do because the facilities are not there and we must make sure that the facilities are there, and for those who do want to worry about the numbers and the money, I would point out that not only is it good for the businesses that they visit, but it's also good for our health services and all the other facilities that we have to provide for those who are stuck at home, because actually they do quite simply cost us money and the consequence of them being there. The ability to get out and about and enjoy life is actually very good for the collective bank balance, as well as of course for the individuals concerned. When one starts to look at accessibility, it all becomes very local, and I took the opportunity, as I'm sure other members have, of looking around my constituency and seeing what I could learn and where the access was good and where the access was not so good. Now I shall deal gently with some of the organisations that I found, but a couple of things do emerge, Presiding Officer. The first one was that I came across the Caledonian Railway, which of course runs from my home city of Breakin off towards Montrose, and it is accessible for wheelchairs, ramped access to the railways, and then I found myself wondering whether, when you're on a steam railway, you really need to be able to have a hearing loop. I have a suspicion, that's one of the experiences in life where you don't need to hear it at all. I suspect you can feel it and you know exactly what's going on. But then I also got to another, another the extreme. I got to Dunauta Castle just outside Stonehaven, and I welcome some youngsters from that part of the world to the gallery. And I thought to myself, you know, Dunauta Castle is there precisely because it is inaccessible. And I have a sneaking suspicion that we need to be just a little bit careful in our discussion about access just to make sure that we don't go overboard and suggest that everything should be immediately accessible to absolutely everybody. I'm not quite sure how you're ever going to get wheelchair access to Dunauta Castle. It might be wiser not to try. I do however want to come back as some have to the railways. And again, I'm grateful to Jenny Murrah for picking up on the issue of access to Wavelay station, in which I think has been suggested might have more to do with security, but it is absolutely a problem that we need to solve. And I do add my voice to that argument. But I've been pursuing with the railway companies. Why it is that those who are very blind, on those in particular who are deaf blind, should not be able to be accompanied by a companion who travels free. If they had a guide dog, it's undoubtedly the case and I have a checked with our resident guide dog that Mr Q travels free. But if I required a companion to come with me, that companion would not travel free unless they had their own reasons for travelling free an appropriate card. They might get a discount depending on which local authority they're resident in and they might also get a substantial discount if they had an appropriate card by dint of age or other discounts. But I am stuck with the problem that the cost of travelling, of occupying a seat on a train, which is out of commuter times, is for all practical purposes, zero. One of the things they do teach you at the Harvest Business School is that most business costs are fixed costs and if that seat would otherwise be empty, the cost of the railways of you occupying it is in fact zero. So it does seem to me that there is a very clear case for asking the railway operators to say, surely someone with severe disabilities who needs a companion to get out should be able to take that companion free. Now I've asked that question and the train operators response, and I'm going to quote, train operating companies are not in a position to allow free travel for companions as there would be a financial cost attached to this that the train operating companies would not be in a position to meet. There are a number of off-peak services that are particularly busy and there is almost always a value associated with the seat on the train, whether it be the cost of running or cleaning that train or the staff employed to ensure the train reaches its destination. I quote that because I want to quote it back to them. Those are all totally fixed costs. I do however accept that there may be some off-peak trains that are particularly busy and there is a real cost attached to a seat, but it seems to me they're pretty few and far between. I don't want to argue with them about their railways because they know their systems, they know which ones are busy and they know what's going on, but I do want to argue with them that the cost attached to letting a companion to someone who's blind or deafblind is frankly from my point of view pretty much zero and I think this is something that they should be able to deal with. I will continue to challenge that with them. I'm doing so in parliamentary time quite deliberately. I'm conscious that Fergus Ewing is not the relevant minister so I'm not laying at him at his door, but I will be taking it to the transport minister and I think this is just part of the argument. This is something that we need to address, whether those folk are coming from far or near. It seems to me that deaf, blind and those with severe difficulties in seeing should be able to take a companion free on a off-peak train and I think that's an issue that we ought to pursue. Many thanks and I now call Patricia Ferguson to be followed by Chick Brody. Thank you Presiding Officer and can I add my voice to that of others in welcoming the BSL interpretation that is going on this afternoon to make this debate about accessible tourism as accessible in itself as it can be. Of course, as we know, tourism is one of our biggest and most important industries and is a part of our economy that can continue to grow and develop over the coming years. But this debate shouldn't be about the contribution tourism and particularly accessible tourism can make to the economy, because tourism is about more than money. It's also about that most important and valuable commodity time. In particular, it is about that memorable weekend or, if we're lucky, two or more weeks when we join family or friends for some relaxation, doing the things we enjoy most and recharging our batteries. We all need to have a break now and again. The 11 million people in this country with a disability are no different, or at least they shouldn't be. For many people with a disability, the idea of going on holiday can be a daunting one, because the challenges that they face in everyday life don't go away just because they are on holiday. I read recently about a project in Fife that I believe Mr Ewing visited, which is the brainchild of David and Moira Henderson of Cooper. They are building a self-catering facility for disabled holiday makers, where even the most severely disabled can be accommodated and where on-site care can be an option if required. The Henderson's are to be congratulated on their idea, but it was the words of Moira Henderson as reported in the magazine Possibility that really struck home. Mrs Henderson referred to the fact that a cousin of the family had developed a life-changing, paralysing condition. As his condition deteriorated, this man paid to go into a hospice so that his family could go on holiday without him. Mrs Henderson rightly said that that's not what holidays are all about. They're about relaxing in a comfortable and suitable environment with family or friends. I think that Mrs Henderson is absolutely right about that. That's why I'm pleased that Visit Scotland has recognised this issue and is committed to tackling it head-on. Why is it so appropriate that the Scottish Government is investing in the online programme to assist those working in the tourism industry to understand and, more importantly, to respond to the needs of all those it may come into contact with? Colleagues will know that I have a particular interest in heritage, and I know that adapting ancient buildings or making historic sites available to all can be a daunting task. I was particularly interested to hear Graham Day's raising of the particular problem about BSL interpretation being available in such facilities. However, putting BSL aside—and I think that Mr Day may be right that there is a specific problem there—I have to say that I am pleased to read Historic Scotland's access guide, which offers very detailed information about the kind of buildings that owns their accessibility and, also, and importantly, the accessibility of the exhibits on offer in any given place. To give just one small quote of the kind of detail that they go into, they say about one particular venue that will remain nameless, the White House has reached over a large, rough stone culvert cover and had a slight threshold at the door. That does not necessarily mean that it is going to be an easy place to get into, perhaps it cannot be, but at least people know before they get there exactly what the situation is and perhaps it would influence their choice of places to visit. I congratulate Historic Scotland for that. Perhaps they, like others, could do better when it comes to issues such as BSL, but I intend to contact Historic Scotland now to find out what feedback they have had from users and to see whether we can suggest any further improvements to them. As other colleagues have suggested, Inclusion Scotland has given us some very interesting information about the revamped Waverley station. I have to say that, looking around when those changes were first made, it did occur to me that there was a problem there in the making, but clearly that problem is particularly acute for disabled users. I understand that discussions are now taking place to address the difficulties encountered, but is it not just a shame that that effort was not put in to resolving potential issues before the changes were made? Why cannot those changes have been discussed with some of the many organisations that assist people with a disability or who are there to help to look at access issues? That would have seemed to me to be common sense to a big organisation such as Network Rail, and I now hope that those issues can be resolved. Inclusion Scotland also made the point that accessible accommodation is often only available in more expensive hotels and that people with a disability are more likely to be living in poverty than those without. Clearly, that is a problem that requires more than just a structural response, but I would hope that it would be an issue that Visit Scotland and others would consider going forward. I was very struck by the comments that Stuart Stevenson made before he left the debate about the fact that insurance can be an issue for those with a disability or an illness, but you do not need to be unwell to have an issue with insurance. You only have to be over a certain age. I have certainly experienced that when trying to book accommodation or hotels or holidays for my parents, who at the time were both in the 80s, and it ended up in the situation where the insurance costs more than the holiday, which surely cannot be right in this day and age. Add to that the problem that my father has had a triple heart bypass. I wanted to travel to America and forget the holiday. Even the fact that my stepmother had had a heart pacemaker implanted meant that she too found it almost impossible to travel to the United States. That is not a problem for Visit Scotland, but it is the kind of issue that travellers are facing as our world becomes smaller and people want to travel around the world. I am delighted, as I say, with the efforts that Scottish tourism is making and that Visit Scotland is leading in that. I am conscious of the fact that, 10 years or so ago, it led literally the world on the issue of green tourism. I sincerely hope that we will see it in the next few years leading on the issue of accessibility tourism. I would just ask the minister if he could indicate to us today whether accessibility and the issues related to it might become part of Visit Scotland's grading system in the near future. I now call Chick Brody to be followed by Liam McArthur. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, welcome the debate and our visitors today. Presiding Officer, my son is a professional golfer. A few years ago, he was asked to appear on the BBC television programme, today's programme. The purpose of the interview with him was that he wanted to introduce to the UK special equipment manufacturer in the USA para-mobile sports equipment that would allow people with disabilities to have real and full access to the great game of golf. I use that to illustrate the possibility of one important element of tourism golf and the accessibility, increasing accessibility as part of general tourism. I do so on the day that the greatest world golf attraction, the greatest global tourism attraction in my opinion, the Ryder Cup starts with a practice round today and, of course, has the first round tomorrow. When I questioned Greg, my son, about the viability of his project, he waxed lyrical about the opportunities that this equipment afforded. We discussed the needs and ramifications around those. The equipment was a chair bound for those who were chair bound, but it allowed them, and it was not just about golf, it was also about archery and other associate sports, it allowed them to be erect, to drive into bunkers, to drive into the trees, and we are happy that they could enjoy the full attraction of that sport. The major features that he highlighted were not just overcoming the physical barriers in golf, but optimising the opportunities that were even more buttressed by having good customer service, people and staff and golf course owners attitudes to the disabled and the availability of accessibility information, full information. I encourage that all of those elements, I believe, will feature in the Ryder Cup, as they should indeed elsewhere. In the Ryder Cup, when we know some of the comments made by Visit Scotland that there will be absolutely no discrimination, and all people will be treated equally to the same quality and level of service, that accessible information about the event will be available again to all, including those with some infirmity, that services will be delivered appropriate to actual, as opposed to presumed need in the other provisions, such as access buddies. I am just glad that George Adams is not here. Access buddies volunteers to help people with limited mobility, sensory impairment and the elderly, allowing them to move around not just the course and the tentative villages, but in the surrounding area. Accessible tourism contributes almost £370 million to the Scottish economy. That is no little amount and provides huge potential economic benefits to hundreds of businesses in Scotland, not least on train services. It is significant that the opportunities that come with the business are met with improved customer service. We have already mentioned ScotRail that, as it said in its briefing, it has highlighted its recent improvement to reduce the amount of notice that customers with disabilities are recommended to give when booking travel assistance with them. For example, I dropped from 24 hours notice requirement to just four hours. The accessibility for the staff to a passenger assistance app can only add to the wider spectrum of improving customer service. All similar events augment the possibilities of the accessible tourism project, which can make Scotland one of the most accessible tourist destinations in Europe by identifying physical and service barriers that are faced by those with disabilities who are planning to holiday in Scotland. The partnership under the auspices of the project of Capability Scotland, Visit Scotland and the Government is to be recommended in that it programmes and overcomes those barriers and is indeed a key vehicle to the future success of the accessibility programme. The barriers are not limited to the architecture of tourism, to restaurants, accommodation, tourist attraction but, as I said earlier, to everything that is associated around that, around the periphery, whether it is shops, stations, etc. The tourism and the tourist experience is not just about money but completes the tourism and the tourist experience. It is often said, and we have all said it, that 2014 is the year that we welcomed and continue to welcome the world. We have had the Commonwealth Games with services for people with disabilities, provided by the front runner volunteers and side-ups. All that has been and will be achieved and complemented by the online training programme that was mentioned earlier, a tool for staff in association with tourism enterprises, a vehicle to allow all of our guests who have a disability to fully enjoy the Scottish experience through excellent customer service. Those are all important but real on-going benefits will flow most importantly from the feedback of the customers, those with disabilities themselves. Professor Stephen Hawkins, a sufferer of MND, said that there is a severe lack of quality information about disabled access in the UK, particularly services giving the end-users perspective. As Jenny Marra mentioned earlier, I too applaud Ewan MacDonald, a local person who is a similar sufferer to Professor Hawkins, who developed Ewan's Guide, which is a disabled access review and app, providing credible information on tourist sites compiled by him and other members with disabilities. 600 places have been reviewed by people with disabilities in 250 towns. That is no little achievement. That kind of initiative, partnered by the work, as I said, of the capability of Scotland, VisitScotland and, of course, our Government, can secure not just enjoyment but can see Scotland at the forefront indeed as a trailblazer for accessibility tourism worldwide and for accessibility tourism growth in years to come. Many thanks. I now call Liam McArthur to be followed by Jamie Hepburn. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I join with others in welcoming the presence of BSL signers for this debate? As a member of the corporate body, I would reflect on the fact that this Parliament has a good track record in terms of its accessibility. It is a key guiding principle of the institution, but that is not to say that we cannot keep on learning and cannot keep on improving. I welcome to this debate and congratulate the minister on bringing forward his motion and Jenny Marra on what I think is a helpful amendment, drawing attention in particular to the accessible transport project. Colleagues, we know that I should declare an interest as my brother is a wheelchair user after a serious rugby accident 18 years ago, and I would like to maybe draw on some of the first-hand experience that he and we as a family have had through the course of my remarks. I would start by saying that this is an issue of principle. It is a question of fairness, equity and social justice. The minister quite rightly said why it is that those with disabilities should have any less right to a holiday or to a break than the rest of us. These debates very often have a danger of lapsing into discussions around the costs—the costs of adaptations, the practicalities of adaptations, the costs of preparing materials and so on. It is therefore important that we emphasise the significant opportunities that there are here. As others have mentioned, tourists with disabilities contribute around £370 million to our tourism industry. That trend is on the rise, reflecting perhaps the loyalty of those who find destinations and accommodation, etc., that meets their needs. However, high is that figure is that it could be and should be significantly higher. A research commission from the University of Surrey published earlier this year that suggested that European tourism sectors are missing out on around 140 billion euros per year due to a lack of support offered to travellers with special access needs. That does not surprise me. My first family holiday after my brother's accident was to Barcelona 15 years ago. I was interested by Mark Griffin's comments about Spain being an exemplar. Certainly 15 years ago, there was a lack of information available at the time. There were facilities, but not many. To the point that Patricia Ferguson made in Inclusion Scotland, she brought out very clearly in her briefing, it was at the higher end of the market and perhaps not financially accessible to many who wished to travel. Travelling itself is not just the accessibility of the travel, but those with disabilities are often required to travel with particular clothing, medication or equipment. Particularly for those who are taking a flight, as we were, it is not necessarily equipment that you can keep with you at all times. That was rammed home to us, the risks associated with it were brought home to us when British Airways then lost my brother's shower chair on the flight on the way out. I spent the first 48 hours of that holiday pushing my Spanish language skills to the absolute limit in pursuit of replacement. In order for us not to be laboring under the misapprehension that this was us just being a bit unfortunate, BA managed to lose the two of the wheels on the return journey a week later. There have been significant improvements since then, but I think that the commission-sponsored research suggests that we have a way to go yet. It is often a question, I think, of providing information for travellers, and I think that the Scottish Government-sponsored pilot project during the Commonwealth Games has very much drilled down into this aspect. The hotel access statements—I entirely agree with the minister—are not gobbledygook that absolutely essential, as indeed is the training for volunteers. The feedback from that has, I think, quite rightly been seen part of the success of those games earlier this summer. However, as frustrating it is to find a lack of availability of facilities, it is nothing compared to the frustration felt by those who arrive at a destination to find the facilities are not as advertised. I think that both Chick Brody and Jenny Marra have referred to Ewan's Guide and the service that it provides. I think that that is absolutely critical that what you have is those with disabilities testing out facilities, providing their feedback and making that feedback as widely available as possible. The more input, the more feedback there is, the better that service will become. Can I conclude with a couple of examples from my constituency? Buckinghaven Cottage is a self-catering cottage in Kirkwall for people with dementia, given the increase in the numbers of dementia sufferers we have seen and the projections going forward. I welcome the fact that this part of the market appears now to be catered for. It is owned and managed by Marilyn Bucking, 25-years-old nurse dealing with and supporting those with dementia as well as other mental health issues. Focusing on things like lighting, colour and signage, for example brightly painted and labelled doors, this facility is recognising the particular needs of dementia sufferers as well as those with autism and other mental health needs. It highlights it as well as overall improved provision and information. There is a need for specific, more tailored provision as well. A final observation would be that the motion talks about the importance of public and private sectors working closely together. I think that that is a point very well made. It is illustrated to me by the visits that my brother, who is based in Edinburgh, continues to make up to Orkney. As well as the good self-catering accommodation and more accessible facilities are, the support received through the occupational therapist team from Hoist to the provision of expert advice has been absolutely invaluable. Without the contribution from the public sector, what is in offer from private providers and local businesses would be far less accessible. That is probably reflected nationwide. I welcome the debate. The raising of public awareness and improving information available are absolutely critical to removing many of the physical, mental and other barriers that continue to exist. That is a simple question of fairness and equity, but by reinforcing the message about economic benefits, I think that we also improve the chances of those improvements happening more quickly. Many thanks. I now call Jamie Hepburn, to be followed by Dennis Robertson. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward today's debate. One of the reasons I was motivated to speak was that I was contacted by a constituent with his own experience of the difficulties that he has experienced in trying to go on holiday with his wife, who requires the use of a wheelchair. I will try to return to that later. Tourism is of clear and obvious importance to Scotland's economy. Recent figures show that there were some 11.2 million tourism trips. Tourist trips to Scotland contribute in expenditure of some £2.6 billion. It is clearly an important sector, but we should always be looking to grow it. Some might look at the provision of infrastructure for accessible tourism as a challenge, but they should not be looking at it that way. In fact, for Scotland, it is a massive opportunity. We know that accessible tourism already contributes almost £400 million to the Scottish economy. Some people refer to that already, but we know that worldwide, the number of people with impairments accounts for somewhere between 600 and 900 million people out of 124 million people in Europe who have disabilities. 70 per cent are physically and financially able to travel and often with accompanying friends and family, and indeed the estimated purchasing power of people with disabilities in the UK is some £80 billion a year. People with disabilities—I am trying to take on board the comments of my colleague Dennis Robertson in that regard—are trying to use that term and are trying not to let them down. People with disabilities represent a huge market potential. This is a chance to ensure that Scotland is prepared to benefit by accessible tourism, but there is some way to go because we know that 70 per cent of disabled people are able to travel, but because of a lack of accessible tourism, accommodation and basic facilities, they do not. I am pleased to see that work is being done. The minister and others have mentioned the training programme to help to make tourist services more accessible. I very much welcome that initiative, and we know that this year, with the Commonwealth Games and the World Cup, we know that there have been great efforts to ensure that they have been accessible events. I am not saying that there has not been massive work involved in ensuring that those flagship events were as accessible as possible, but it is probably rather easier to put arrangements in place for one-off events than it might be to ensure that our tourist facilities are accessible on a more general basis. Inclusion Scotland provides with a helpful briefing that sets out a range of issues. For example, it highlighted one of the key barriers to tourism for disabled people to remain the shortage of fully accessible public transport. That reflects some of the concerns that were raised by my constituent in the time that I have left, to deal with them directly, because he contacted me to set out that he has had problems in the past two years trying to arrange suitable disabled holiday accommodation in Scotland for his wife, who is disabled and wheelchair-bound due to frontotemporal dementia. She needs fully accessible disabled accommodation with overhead or portable hoist standing in a bedroom and toilet. He spoke of a lack of hotels and Bs in Scotland to have such facilities. Indeed, those that often provide them will often charge extra for such equipment. He could only find one establishment, which, in Mr Robertson's constitution, has been mentioned by Nenette Milne, Chrithie Opportunity Holidays, which did not charge extra for specialist disabled equipment. Again, that was a concern that Inclusion Scotland referred to in its briefing. Accessible accommodation is often only available in the more expensive hotels or they will charge for specialist equipment. Of course, we know that many people with disabilities are more than likely than non-disabled people to be living in poverty, but yet they have to bear the brunt of those extra costs. I have written to VisitScotland on behalf of my constituent and they have replied to me and they have talked of the accessible tourism project, which is obviously part of that work, is to try to ensure that the sharing of information to businesses is helping each other to find the most suitable and reasonably priced equipment. I hope that that can be successful and that it can lead to more locations and not charging a premium for the provision of such equipment. Another issue that my constituent raised and that was touched upon by both Jenny Marra and Nenette Milne is the lack of disabled access toilets across Scotland. That can make journeys in Ireland impossible and very difficult. Indeed, my constituent will refer to particular problems in the Highlands, the Borders and the Western Northern Isles. He described that there are no-go areas for disabled people who need—or people with disabilities, I should say—a fully accessible toilet. That was another issue that I raised with VisitScotland. Of course, they say that they do not have jurisdiction for this particular area and I accept that, but I hope that they can work with their partners to try to improve this situation and to have time to give way. Indeed, I will, then. Mackenzie, you feel that local authorities have a role in the provision of public toilets and they need to be partners in that. Can we help one more minute? Absolutely. They clearly have the lead role in the provision of such facilities, but I think that it would be helpful that VisitScotland can work with them as partners in trying to improve the situation. The one last issue that my constituent raised that might not have been thought to be immediately obvious as a tourism issue is difficulties in accessing personal care or respite hours for his wife whilst on holiday. He has had problems whereby travelling to an area of local authority that he is trying to provide respite care and assistance, but other areas do not. That is not a primary responsibility of VisitScotland, but it is clearly an important part of ensuring that we have the best setup possible to cater for people with disabilities. I offer those concerns on behalf of my constituent others like him on a constructive basis. I thank the Scottish Government and VisitScotland for their work. They are engaged in and I look forward to hearing the work that will continue to make sure that Scotland has the best form of accessible tourism infrastructure that we can possibly have. I now call on Dennis Robertson to be followed by Margaret McCulloch. I made the point earlier with my intervention with the minister when I was saying people with disabilities. It is important that we recognise that people have a disability or an impairment. It is very easy and I have done it myself many times and perhaps we will probably do it. I have no doubt that, maybe even this afternoon or some other time, you mentioned the word disabled prior to the people. It is important when we are looking at this whole issue about accessible tourism, that we are looking at that broad aspect of accessibility and what it actually means. I think that most members this afternoon have made very telling contributions about the wider aspect of what it means, not to the individual themselves but to that individual and their families. Quite often, when we are looking at holidays, we are looking at perhaps a family holiday. My daughter during her training as a paediatric nurse was doing some social care work. I take up the net mill's point about the nursing colleges looking at nurses getting into some aspect of social care and doing some sort of respite, etc, within some holiday destinations. My daughter actually does care for a young man with very severe and complex mobility issues. She says that the difficulty that she has when she is out with him and she has been in holiday with him is just this basic accessibility to what we consider the normal places that we would like to visit. That includes things like shops or restaurants or cafes or just things that we take for granted. However, I think that we have come a long way because I have been involved in the accessible aspect of access panels for probably about 40 years. It has always been worthwhile because I have seen the progress of what has actually happened. When I am looking at going on holiday, I tend to look at venues that do not require me to cross busy roads, because it is at a time that I usually believe that I am going abroad on holiday that I tend to leave my guide dog at home. I think that he probably deserves a holiday from me at the same time as I probably would deserve a holiday with my family. I do that quite deliberately because I want to be able to still have this sort of degree of independence where I want to be able to enjoy the freedom of being in holiday in that relaxation. I have many friends who have disabilities. Quite often, our examples that we bring to the chamber are through either family members or friends. One friend in particular tells me that his biggest frustration—we have witnessed that ourselves—is when he wants to just visit other friends in other parts of this country or when he goes south or when he visits abroad—is just going out for a meal. When he finds restaurants that have level accessibility, he finds that he cannot get to use the facilities, although there are accessible toilets within the restaurant. The problem is that the tables and chairs from where he is to get to the accessible toilets are such that there is no room. We then have to ask people who do mind moving etc so that we can get a wheelchair through. That should not be the case. We should always have direct access to accessible toilets. The other frustrating thing is that many people bring up—I am sure that many tourists, when they come to this country, sometimes just shake their head and say, oh my goodness. We have an accessible toilet here. It has the trolley for the cleaner, it has the pail, the mops and all the other bits of waste bins or whatever. Sometimes, yes, we have an accessible toilet, but people cannot get in to use them. We need to be sure that when we have these facilities, they are there and they are there for the purpose that they were designed for, Presiding Officer. Access means accessibility. It should be there. When we are looking at people with sensory impairments, many of our wonderful facilities, Presiding Officer, whether it be castles or whether it be Hollywood Palace across the road, which is an exemplar for people who are deaf or hard of hearing with other sensory impairments. We have to look at whether the equipment actually works, but the people providing it know about the equipment themselves. Many places that provide hearing loops, for instance, the hearing loops could either be faulty or the person who is there has no idea on how to manage or instruct about the usage of that particular hearing loop. I want to stick to some basics, Presiding Officer, because it is about awareness and common sense quite often. Quite often, it is just that I am the frustration about a person with a hearing loss, for instance. If they go in to buy a ticket office to go into a particular venue, they are saying that sometimes the lighting is not good enough so that they cannot lipread the person behind the glass counter. Worse than that, Presiding Officer, quite often, the person is looking down or looking away, so therefore there is no absolute way that they could actually lipread the person anyway. It is that basic aspect of training and awareness that we need to be aware of, and that does not cost money. That just costs a little bit of training and awareness, not in itself a huge expense for people to take on board. I take on board what the minister said about Visit Scotland website and the training facility and the training tools that are there, but can I gently say to the minister and to those who create the websites for Visit Scotland that it could be better? When I navigate that particular website to look at accessible accommodation through the search engines, it is not particularly easy. I would have thought that when we were trying to embrace people to Scotland, regardless of where they come from and what their needs are, that we should have perhaps in the statement from Visit Scotland something to say that, yes, our doors are open and if you have a particular disability impairment need whatever, we can manage it. We can cope with that. It is not difficult. Let's be upfront about what we mean about accessibility, it should be what it actually states it is. It's accessible. Time and again in debates in Parliament we have discussed how we could and why we must make Scotland the best destination in the world. From those debates it's clear that Scotland has what it takes to be a world-class destination in many ways and in many places it already is. We know that tourism makes a huge contribution to the Scottish economy and Barclays expects spending from overseas visitors to grow by 40 per cent by 2017. We have discussed Visit Scotland's thematic approach to marketing Scotland from the year of Creative Scotland to the year of Natural Scotland to the year of homecoming. We have heard about the events that bring people here and keep them coming back, the Ryder Cup, the Commonwealth Games and our world-renowned festival season. We have debated business tourism and how Scotland has been more joined up with better transport links and more of our young people learning modern languages so that everyone is made welcome to our country. Today we are asked to take another look at tourism. We have been asked to think about how we make Scotland more than just an attractive destination but also a more accessible one. Indeed, the Labour amendment specifically applauds the work of the accessible tourism project in aspiring to make Scotland the most accessible tourist destination in Europe. The European Commission study by the University of Surrey found that the tourism sector across Europe is losing up to €142 billion every year because too many attractions, venues and transport connections are not accessible enough for those with special access needs. If they were accessible, tourism in Europe could support an extra 3.4 million jobs. Thankfully, Scotland and the UK do well in comparison to other destinations in Europe. Compared to other European countries, we have a relatively good infrastructure for tourism. We have a wealth of visitor attractions, we have brown signage, we have tourist information offices, we have extensive public transport, although it could be better. We have a broadband network that has been improved and expanded as technology moves on, and we have widespread access to ATM machines and cashless payments. We have made more progress in meeting the special access requirements of people with disabilities than many of our European neighbours. We still have some way to go, but I think that we are moving in the right direction. For government, accessibility must remain a priority. For business, making their hotel or their venue or their attraction more accessible must be viewed as an investment more than a cost. However, accessible tourism is not just about physical infrastructure. It is equally about having reliable information and a good standard of service. The accessible tourism project consulted widely with disabled people and, in addition to costs, the themes emerging from that consultation were the need for travellers to have more information, better communication and customer service. Our venues, our attractions and our hoteliers must provide information on accessibility as standard. That information must also be kept up to date. With that information, people with disabilities are in a much better position to plan their journeys. We also need to ensure a good standard of customer service throughout the hospitality and tourism sector. The project identified concern about the attitudes of staff towards disabled people, as well as the service that they can sometimes receive. I would therefore welcome the development of the new training tool by Visit Scotland and others to promote accessibility tourism. We have to address and we have to prevent behaviour that makes disabled people feel uncomfortable, patronised or in any way unwelcome. If Scotland is to be a world-class destination, visitors should expect world-class service. Presiding Officer, we cannot underestimate the potential of Scottish tourism. Tourism in Scotland is growing, and it was growing even when the economy as a whole was contracting. Scotland is one of the world's greatest destinations and all the time is getting better, so let's make sure that everyone has the chance to enjoy it. I thank you very much. I now call on Rob Gibson to be followed by Stuart Stevenson. The concept of people first and their ability to get to parts of our country for holidays is a very complex and difficult one to achieve, but with the disposable income from the grey pound that has been recognised and, increasingly, for the disabled pound, that can bolster many local services and businesses if the welcome included for them is making it easy for the less able to arrive. People with disability getting to parts of the country, which I represent, is perhaps one of the challenges that a number of members have already mentioned in the debate, and I would like to take that forward a bit in two ways. First of all, I want to refer to a book that was written in 2002 called The Creaky Traveller in the North West Highlands of Scotland, a journey for the mobile but not agile, because it recognises the range of abilities that there are that we are talking about today. This American couple, Warren and Gerda Rovech, did talk about the kinds of facilities that they required at the less disabled end of the spectrum, but, nevertheless, what they showed was—and it is a really good Americanism, I suppose—that many people are needful in various levels of requirement. I think that their book identified the kinds of things that would make it possible for them to enjoy a holiday in bed and breakfasts and things like that, and the kinds of facilities that they would require. I will come back to their issues in a minute. However, in order for people to get to places such as the north west, it means that they will have to travel by their own transport or by public transport, and, as we have mentioned earlier, that is where some of the major problems lie. Of course, there are low entry buses in the cities, and, indeed, there are in the city of Inverness, but getting access to those in the north west of Sutherland, where there are very few transport links, is a huge problem. Therefore, I think that bus route development funds should have ability issues built into the way in which the money is given, not just for the cities, but to make sure that the buses which stagecoach, for example, have told us that the use are available for routes outwith the large centres so that people can have access to them. However, someone with a wheelchair trying to get on to a coach, which is the more likely form of transport, is something that makes it very difficult indeed, although the stagecoach coaches have a lift mechanism. Given their timetables, that is quite a time-consuming activity for anyone accessing a bus. Then, when we look at the rail situation, we are talking about many non-staffed railway stations in the north and west. We are talking about lack of aid, except for the staff who are on the train to help someone with an immobility problem. We have to ask ourselves, is it possible for those people to travel to places such as the nearest railhead to Ascent, for example, which I will mention in a minute, is some 30 miles away. We are talking about them wanting to use a train, is there someone there to help, and the issue about that has to be dealt with in the staffing policies of ScotRail. The third aspect is on CalMac ferries in particular, and the ferries for the northern and southern Isles in Orkney, and for Shetland. I am sorry that Liam McArthur is not here at this moment, but I am sure that he would agree with me, but the fact is that the older ferries have very poor facilities indeed for people with mobility problems. The work that requires to be done on those ferries is a major catch-up in order to make them disability-friendly in relation to the DDI issues. The new ferries, I hope, are, and when we finally see the ferry to Stornoway, which is coming up the law c4 a couple of months late, I hope that not only the electrics work in it, but that the lift systems are properly accessible as well. Turning to the facilities that we were talking about, I want to mention particularly a place that I visited when it was opened in 2006. The all-abilities path at Leedshire Essech in Little Ascent is in the far northwest of Sutherland. The pathway was completed in 2005, officially opened in May 2006 by Jamie Andrew, the mountaineer, who was badly frostbitten and lost his limbs. He opened the path after the hard work of the Kulag community woodland trust. Leaving the new all-access car park at Little Essech near Loch Ascent Lodge, the pathway that is suitable for wheelchairs as well as those limited mobility leads to two locks along a well-made and carefully graded trackway. At each of the two locks, there is a picnic area with composting toilets that are accessible for wheelchairs, a shelter and a jetty to give access to boats for fishing. That is disabled angling access and there are two different boats where people can be aided on to those in order to be able to partake of the angling sport. That is an example in the far northwest of Sutherland where a whole project has been developed that allows people with a range of abilities to access those things. I hope that it would suggest that we need to make sure that the transport and accommodation that is available through Ewan's guide identifies the places where it is possible to visit there easily. However, just to finish up and to take a point that Patricia Ferguson made, the intangible and tangible cultural elements that people can benefit from spiritually on the holidays for both people with disabilities and their carers are something that is the great possibility that comes out of visits to places like Little Ascent and which the creaky travellers that I mentioned at the beginning benefited from when they talked about Celtic history traditions coming alive as the hosts of the book Meander their way along. What an opportunity there is to see something that is so uplifting and that everybody of all abilities should be able to access as this debate has shown we're on the way but not there yet. Thank you very much for that very detailed speech. I now call on Stuart Stevenson seven minutes or thereby a generous seven minutes. Thank you very much indeed to Presiding Officer. Let me just kind of disagree with everybody who's spoken so far. We've been utterly without ambition in our contributions to this debate and I intend to remedy that in my seven minutes or so. And we've just heard from Rob Gibson and he said we're not there yet. Nobody's described what there is. Nobody has said what would the world look like if we had a blank canvas and we drew it anew. And the reality is that the world we would all seek is a world where there are no special facilities for anybody with special needs or disabilities. Not because we don't provide for them but because every facility meets their needs and everybody uses them. Now is that a hopelessly ambitious position to take not necessarily? If you travel on a class 170 train on our railways and that's mostly what travels between Edinburgh and Glasgow so many of us may have done that and elsewhere, the toilets are disabled capable. They're not disabled toilets. We all use them and why shouldn't that be the case everywhere? I will in a minute or two if I may Mr Roberts and I just want to say a little bit more first. I think we've spent far too much time focusing on people's in-abilities and not about realising people's cape abilities that we currently don't provide for. I mean let me just give you a few examples. I had a colleague I used to work with, registered blind. His visual purity was essentially restricted to being able to distinguish light from dark and yet one of his hobbies was flying gliders. No, he didn't do it on his own but he was able to fly gliders and I wasn't that stepping up to something ambitious. Do you know that you can get a private pilot's licence when you've only got one eye and you can't hear? Why shouldn't more people who've only one eye and no hearing do private pilot's licenses? Why don't we have cookery courses that people with a range of shortcomings in sight or in hearing or in touch have access to gardening courses? Why shouldn't holidays for people with some restricted capabilities also be holidays for their carers? In other words, is another team of carers take away, which doubles the economic benefit and doubles the benefit to individuals. When we get away from the ghettoisation of some members of our community and we're all the same and we're all accessing the same facilities, then that's the real triumph. Mr Robertson. Dennis Robertson, if you wish. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Mr Stevenson, the gold standard, which was spoken about earlier by Annette Milne and Jimmy Hepburn about crafty opportunity holidays, the charlies there are, yes, there so people with mobility or sensory impairments can use. However, they are fully accessible to people who have no mobility or no sensory impairments whatsoever. I think that the beauty of somewhere like that is to say that this can happen, this is the gold standard. It is fully accessible to all regardless of their need. Chris Stevenson. Delightful, excellent and a model for everywhere, but we only succeed when everywhere is like that. I think we're not setting our ambition high enough. No, of course, we can't either in reality realise every aspect of that ambition probably ever. On the other hand, if we aim for the highest possible standard and drop a little bit short, isn't that better than aiming for mediocrity and succeeding? I think that's the key message, I would say, to colleagues around here. There are also a few other things that we haven't had mentioned. There are a whole range of sensory deprivations that people might have and ways in which we might stimulate senses, and in particular that might be the case for people with a degree of mental ill health who would benefit from perhaps being able to go into a garden and just listen to the bumblebees gathering the pollen from the flowers. I love doing that as someone without perhaps any particular needs. Creating gardens, there was a garden for smells in Aberdeen at one stage, I don't know if it's still there, which people with particular needs felt were interesting. In my intervention of the minister, I talked about the need to consider people who are suffering ill health, temporary or permanent as it might be, who are unable to get insurance to travel internationally, who are experiencing some limitations. I think that we have to include them. What does that mean? That means that they need to have confidence that, for example, if they need to, they can get their specialist mentions, perhaps in Acharachow or some more distant part of Scotland. We need to make sure that that happens and that the local medical people can get access to their records, if they require it, to give confidence to those people that that's going to be possible. Let's not underrate the ambition of people who have apparent restrictions. One of the great events—I haven't heard of it for a wee while—the Grampian Society for the Blind used to have a racetrack day when blind people drove round a racetrack. There was somebody sitting beside them saying, left, right, slow down, occasionally, slow down! Great excitement for people who are blind. Of course, us sighted people got blindfolded and drove round the track blind, as well. We weren't merely as fast as the people who had no sight at all. I think, too, that Evelyn Glennie, who plays in an orchestra and yet has no hearing, why shouldn't we encourage people who have no hearing to follow Evelyn Glennie and have a holiday playing in an orchestra, learning an instrument? We've got to use every opportunity to create for people the opportunity to extend their experience, extend their capabilities, to test the limits of their capabilities. That applies to all of us, by the way. That is not a ghetto issue. It's for all of us. That's what life is about. It's about grabbing up with the throat, trying new things, and we've got to create a society and a world where that is possible. We will triumph when there are no disabled signs visible everywhere. We will triumph when everybody is treated equally and has equal opportunity. It may not be possible, but it's about time that we started to think in terms of trying. I now call on Margaret McDougall, a generous seven minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I, too, welcome BSL to the chamber today. When I first thought about writing this speech, I thought about my wheelchair-bound brother, who has travelled extensively since being confined to a wheelchair. For example, he's been to Canada, America and New Zealand, and yet, when he wanted to do a coach tour of the Scottish Highlands, he was told by the tour company that he couldn't because private coaches do not have to provide access for people with disabilities until, I believe, 2020 in Scotland. However, he was offered a coach tour in England because they do provide for the disabled. I sincerely hope that my brother is still fit and able enough to go a coach tour of the Highlands in six years' time. I ask the minister today if the Government has any plans to bring the legislation forward. It is vital that we ensure where possible that all our tourism attractions and destinations within Scotland are easily accessible with the required facilities and that all hospitalities and tourism industry staff have adequate training on accessibility. The Visit Scotland accessible tourism involvement events report, which was published in December 2011 by Capability Scotland, highlighted numerous barriers to disabled people, physical access, a lack of information, and the most highlighted problem was that of staff attitude and customer service. In terms of physical access, I wish to speak about a specific part, and that is of access to toilet facilities. The Capability Scotland report states that it is no good the restaurant bar or tourist attraction being accessible to a wheelchair user if they do not provide an accessible toilet. For example, the website changing places lists 99 fully accessible public toilets, which have space for two carers to support the person, a changing bench and a tracking hoist. Although that is up from 57 when the report was produced, Scotland still pales in comparison to the rest of the UK who have 565 of those. It would be beneficial if better guidance could be realised on the expectation of an accessible toilet, and if Visit Scotland would consider installing those in larger visitor centres. It would also be helpful if better guidance on what constitutes an accessible toilet was made available. My second point on the availability of information shows that there is still a huge gap in information across Scotland. For example, before my speech today, I had a look over the CalMac website for accessibility information for both Arran and Cumbres ferries. The information was difficult to find, and when I did find it, there was little of it. Perhaps, as Rob Gibson mentioned earlier, there is not much available for disabled people. All that I could find out was that disabled toilets were available on some of their larger ships. It just is not acceptable that if a disabled person manages to find suitable accommodation, such as a hotel or self-catering cottages that we have heard about today, they find their trap there because there are no accessible facilities in the surrounding area or that there is no suitable transport to get them there in the first place. Disabled people should not have to go hunting for this information. It should be clear, concise and easily accessible so that everyone knows exactly what kind of facilities, conditions and access they can expect before they travel. More so, given that this information is crucial to making an informed choice, and particularly when our islands and our economy are so reliant on tourism. That does not just apply to CalMac, no matter the organisation. Public or private, the owners should be on them to make sure that this information can be easily found. It should also be provided in a range of formats, and staff should have proper training so that they can deal with questions on access, and which alternative information formats are available. It would also be helpful if people with disabilities were involved in access audits of accommodation and tourist attractions. That would help to facilitate the provision of better information. On the issue of staff attitude and customer service, it seems that issues arise when staff lack understanding of certain conditions, and the best way to provide support for them is through training. Training is essential if we are to improve on this factor. In advance of the commonwealth games, it was great to see Visit Scotland launching a website to provide Scotland's hospitality industry with the knowledge to cater for the requirements of people with access needs, including those with physical, sensory or learning disabilities and early visitors and parents with small children. That was an excellent example. Accessibility information was easy to find for all venues and all organisations were linked up on the basis of providing the best support possible to those with access needs. I welcome the fact that the e-learning accessible tourism course will also be used for the Ryder Cup. I wonder if the minister can confirm whether the site will be rolled out across Scotland so that the whole industry can have the knowledge and confidence to cater for the requirements of people with accessibility needs. In conclusion, we have made great strides in accessible tourism through the commonwealth games, and we must keep this momentum going. I would love to see the e-learning accessible tourism course more widely used, as well as all organisations in Scotland working together to provide up-to-date and easy-to-access information. If we do that, more people with disabilities will be able to enjoy a holiday in Scotland. I have been reconciled, Presiding Officer. I am sure that Margaret MacDougall would welcome me to the clan nonetheless. I begin by directing members to my declaration of interests. I am the trustee of a recently established charity called Friendly Access, which is there to encourage and facilitate businesses and public bodies to increase their awareness, understanding and openness to individuals on the autistic spectrum. I will be touching on some of those themes during my speech. Stuart Stevenson spoke of the garden of smells in Aberdeen that he recalled. I am not sure whether the one he refers to still exists, but the recent refurbishment and reinvigoration of the Duthey park in Aberdeen, which was brought about by heritage lottery funding and a significant bequivement. While I was vice-convener of housing and environment at Aberdeen City Council, I instigated the incorporation of a sensory area to the Duthey park to ensure that those individuals who would benefit from such an area could do so. There has been much talk in the debate of physical disability or rather visible disability. I want to talk a little bit about those individuals whose disability may not be obvious when they present at facilities or when they travel on holiday. I think that there is good work being done. I certainly welcome the funding that has been allocated by the Scottish Government. I welcome the launch of the online training programme as well, which I hope businesses across Scotland will sign up to. I think that one of the things that has been highlighted throughout the debate is that often when we think of tourism, we think of a visitor attraction or we think of a hotel, but our entire society should be accessible because people who come here to visit Scotland or people from within Scotland who want to holiday within Scotland will use all kinds of different facilities and services in order to enjoy themselves. We should not limit ourselves to thinking that we are simply talking about visitor attractions and accommodation necessarily, although I will probably find that I spend the rest of my speech talking about those very things. However, I want to focus on some of the challenges and ambitions that are out there for how we can take things further and things that could be done a little bit differently. A couple of months ago, I did a large piece of work around autism in the airports in Scotland for individuals who wanted to fly and to try to help people in the autistic spectrum to find their way through the airport process. There is a lot of good work going on in Scotland's airports and it was about bringing that to the fore and making people aware of it. It got me to thinking about what happens in other countries because if we want to attract people to come to Scotland, for those people on the autistic spectrum who may need to fly in order to come to Scotland, that same process and those same supports would need to be replicated in their home nations as well. I realise that the minister does not have jurisdiction over what happens in those areas, but it is perhaps something that may be worth considering in terms of discussions and conversations with representatives of other Governments about what they are doing to ensure that their nationals who want to come to Scotland are able to do so from the point at which they leave their country. Another issue is accommodation. We are talking a lot in this debate about accessibility, but it is also about security as well. If I could even use my own example, my son is what we would call an escape artist. When we go on holiday, if we want to book a hotel room, we have to be very careful because many hotel rooms, all that you have to do to exit them, is to turn the handle and open the door. For a lot of people who have individuals on the autistic spectrum, that is a genuine concern because often they have no concept of danger, they have no concept of the rights and wrongs of leaving the hotel room and, often, my son's autism comes with a free sleep disorder thrown in. That often is the case for many people in the autistic spectrum. They are up at 4 or 5 in the morning, often before anybody else in the household is. If he was to wake up at 4 or 5 in the morning, turn the handle on the hotel room door and exit, we would wake up a couple of hours later and he could well have left the facility. We have to also think about, from a business perspective, for hotels and accommodation out there, how they are geared up in terms of the accommodation that they provide to cater best for individuals and their particular needs. Also on facilities, one of the things that has been highlighted to me by parents, I put a post up on a couple of groups that I am on on Facebook asking for people to give me their thoughts and their experiences. One mum said that when they arrived at a local attraction in Scotland, they found that it was very easy to get in, very easy to get the discount for disabled individuals and carers, but the issue for them was the queuing for everything within that attraction once they got in. For many people on the autistic spectrum, the concept of waiting in a queue can cause great anxiety, great stress and often meltdown. We perhaps need to think about facilities looking at having fast track procedures, like some major attractions have introduced in order to facilitate those families who will have those difficulties being able to access opportunities. On the changing places toilets, one of the things that has been brought to my attention is that there is no changing places toilet at the recently refurbished museum of Scotland. That is something that parents have highlighted to me as something that they would like to see perhaps being addressed. I wonder if the minister might speak to his colleague the cabinet secretary for culture and perhaps raise that as a concern and see whether there is something that could be done there. Obviously, that is a facility that many families and many individuals are going to visit who would require a changing places facility. If we can put one in place there, we should definitely do so. Other issues that arise as well are even something as simple as within toilets. Hand dryer facilities, which are often very terrifying to people with particular sensory disorders, but they can often be the only game in town either that or you are drying your hands with toilet paper, which is not a very dignified thing to have to do. I have a couple of other things to mention. If that is okay for me to take just a little bit longer to mention them, I see that you are saying no. I will wrap up simply by saying that there are a couple of asks that I would have that the Scottish Government could maybe look at. One is looking at retrofitting of existing public buildings to try and make sure that they are accessible for people who are visiting them. The other is looking at how building standards define accessible toilets because the feedback that I am receiving is that current accessible toilet definitions in building standards are not cutting the mustard and that is maybe something that the minister can take back to his colleagues who have particular responsibilities in those areas and see what can be done. Excellent. Many thanks. I now call on more to Fraser for seven minutes, please, thereby. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward this debate and for Fergus Ewing for his introductory remarks, and to everybody who has contributed to what has been a very wide-ranging and informative debate. There has been a refreshing change in terms of the tone of the debate, not to be talking about independence for once in a number of weeks. Hopefully, we can get on to other business in coming weeks as well. The background to all this is that in recent times society has challenged the hurdles that prevent people with disabilities from enjoying a full, unnormal life. After the last few months of intense campaigning, I am sure that we are all looking forward to the October recess. I think that that is precisely 15 days to go until that starts. However, as Fergus Ewing said, many of those with life-altering conditions do not get the opportunity to have a break. The very depressing statistic was that four out of five people with disabilities do not get the chance to have a normal holiday like other people. We have to work hard with businesses, because much of what we are talking about today is provided by the private sector by businesses. We have to work hard with them to make sure that we have accessible accommodation, travel, hospitality, retail and tourist attractions. In my own area in Mid Scotland and Fife, there are a number of facilities that have achieved top marks for accessibility in Ewing's Guide, the Ewing's Guide that Jenny Marra referred to. Before I mention those, I should say that the Scottish Parliament itself has a very good track record and, leading from the front in Ewing's Guide, the website that collates reviews and scores from disabled people on the accessibility of tourist attractions and other sites, the Parliament gets a score of five out of five. It is well done to Mr MacArthur, who is on the corporate body for his efforts. A couple of examples came to my attention. There is Tolkien Farm lodges near Glenamont, which is a five-star rated facility with specialist facilities and respite breaks for the disabled. Their services include round-the-clock care staff, mail provision and the opportunity to go out on expert-led outings and excursions. In Fife, MND Scotland has invested in an accessible, friendly caravan, which helps to provide a safe environment for those with limited mobility. Both of those examples demonstrate the importance of new surroundings in improving the outlook and quality of life for those with disability. VisitScotland has done a good job, as the minister acknowledged at the start, trying to equip businesses with the tools that they need and, so far, have signed up over 600 businesses to their accessible tourism online training tool. We are making good strides, but, as we have heard and Stuart Stevenson made this point very well, there is much more that can be done, and we need to do what we can to encourage the private sector to step forward. I would like to pick up a few of the points that were made in the debate by different members. There was a lot said about transport. The transport that is probably most used by people with disabilities is, in fact, the private car. Here we have come on leaps and bounds in recent years. If you go to virtually any facility with car parking, whether that is a tourist attraction or a restaurant, you will find a provision of disabled spaces, usually right beside the main door. That is something that has emerged over recent years and is very welcome. When it comes to public transport, I think that the challenges are greater. Rob Gibson talked about— Yes, of course. In this, Rob Gibson? With regard to obviously blue badge spaces, Mr Fraser is aware that many of those spaces are taken up by cars that do not have blue badges. I think that I would be asking hotels, restaurantaires and so on to police this more readily than they do. We are familiar with Mr Roberson's work and his bill in this area. We are dealing with private land that is a different matter altogether. That is where you need the owners of the facility to police that. That is a well-made point. The point is going to make about buses. I think that there is an issue with buses, particularly in rural areas. In relation to trains, Jack Brody referred to first ScotRail's record on booking travel assistance in advance, where they have reduced the time that is required from 24 hours to 4 hours, which is an important step forward, but there is more that could be done. In relation to stations, we have just seen the new Glen Eagles station opened. Those attending the Ryder Cup will be making use of that. That is very friendly towards those with disability with new lifts and so on, Putin. A number of members, Jenny Marron and the net mill and others, referred to the problem of Waverley station, where there is a genuine issue here with the removal of vehicular access to the heart of the station where it was before. It did not seem to me to be a particular issue with having taxis there. We also saw quite apart from the issue of access for people with disability, we saw during the festival tours having to queue outside in the rain, often for a long time to get taxis, whereas previously they would be inside and under cover. I would urge the minister to do what he can to engage with Network Rail and the Waverley station management to see that anything could be done to improve that particular issue. Nigel Dawn made some thoughtful comments about transport more generally. Patricia Ferguson talked about heritage. We need to recognise that if we are dealing with Historic Scotland, there are some buildings that simply cannot be adapted because they do so that they would lose their historic nature. However, there is a lot being done and I was interested to hear our comments about access statements and the benefit that they provide. Jamie Hepburn and Mark McDonald mentioned the issue of public toilets. That is a very important subject. Public toilets are important not just for people with disabilities but for people who are elderly or those, as I am sure the minister knows, with young children. What we have seen over the past two decades in Scotland is a serious reduction in the availability of public toilets. We were in the summer and holiday in Northern Ireland and it struck me when we were staying in Port Rush, which is a very small seaside town. The provision of public toilets was far and above what it would have got in an equivalent town in Scotland. It was accessible, clean and well maintained. We know that the level of public spending in Northern Ireland is higher than it is in Scotland. However, there is a real issue about trying to make Scotland an attractive place to visit, not just for those with disabilities but for everybody, including families and the elderly, we need to look again at toilet provision. A lot of councils have gone down the road of comfort schemes where they are having a relationship with a local provider. Often what happens is that the shop, the hotel or the bar or restaurant providing the toilets will then close or change and there is no alternative facility available. In terms of tourism, we need to look at that. Finally, as you are waving at me, Deputy Presiding Officer, I just mentioned the question of attitudes, which is very important, because we know that hostile, inappropriate or patronising behaviour from those providing services to those with disabilities is very off-putting and detrimental. So can I just say in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, going back to the minister's point, four out of five people with disabilities do not enjoy a holiday. That is not acceptable, we have to change that and I support the motion and Jenny Marra's amendment. Thank you so much. Now, Colin, Jenny Marra, just about eight and a half minutes, slightly less. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I have enjoyed this debate immensely this afternoon. I think that, like most colleagues, I have enjoyed the change of pace and tone from the last few weeks. It is also such an important issue for us to discuss in Parliament this afternoon, especially in this year of increased tourism to Scotland and all these incredible events that we are witnessing in our country and all the visitors that they are bringing. I would like to reflect, if I can, on the contributions this afternoon, because I think that there were three particularly substantive points that were raised in this debate that I would like to go over. I would firstly like to turn to Stuart Stevenson's contribution. I have to say that it is the speech that I have enjoyed most in this Parliament of Mr Stevenson's, because he started by saying that we have all been particularly unambitious. I have to say to him that I started listening to his speech by agreeing with him that we have kind of been mulling over advances made until now. Of course, everyone in this chamber would share his ambition on that. However, as I was reflecting on some of the issues that we raised, such as Rob Gibson raised the issue of updating the ferry fleet, I think that we would all recognise across the chamber that those are all advances that we are making within the constraints of public spending as well. I am sure that the minister would be the first to point that out, although we would like every ferry—the CalMac ferries—to be fully accessible, that that will happen in time and probably as quickly as it can. I think that it is important to have this debate to remind ourselves that, as I said in my opening statement, accessibility should always be right at the forefront of planning and management decisions, but I think that we are making good progress within those constraints. I am very grateful to Jenny Marr. I listened to what Stuart Stevenson had to say, and I think that the point that she makes in relation to ferries is very valid. However, I recall an incident not so long ago where taxis were required to be wheelchair accessible. For some, that was a practical option, and we have moved in that direction for mini-cabs. However, it was, frankly, impossible. The risk is that you choke off those businesses to no benefit of those who are able-bodied or not. In a sense, we need to be careful the way, as Jenny Marr was saying, how we transition from where we are to where we aspire to be. I think that that is a very well-made point. I thank Liam McArthur for his intervention. Stuart Stevenson also said that we will try him when there are no disabled signs anywhere. I completely agree with that. That is a mark, as I said in an opening statement, of our aspiration towards equality. However, his remarks reminded me of a conversation that I had with some young students at Craigie High School in Dundee, and they have a special facility there for deaf students. They were telling me about some of the daily barriers that they face in everyday life, such as ordering their food in McDonalds, such as getting a Saturday job, and such as getting their way around the city. One of the things that they said to me that really struck with me was the issue about buses. They reckoned that some of them were from Eastern Europe and that I had come to live in Scotland. Actually, in Latvia, the provision on the buses is better and provision across the European Union, because there is much more signage on buses. That has all already been legislated for in legislation in Europe and through the Equality Act in Westminster. Actually, I wonder if a lot of the issues that we are discussing today are already pre-existing legislation that we just need to comply with or that we still need to enforce. I wonder if the minister can reflect on that as well. Nigel Don has made a very thoughtful contribution and raised an issue that has come up in my constituency as well about people who require a travelling companion, whether that travelling companion can travel for free on our rail network. At this point, the minister will allow me to say also that we must bear in mind that there is always going to be a financial barrier. We can have very equal and accessible facilities, but there are going to be financial barriers to allow people of lower incomes to access them as well. Nigel raises a very important point. I wonder if the minister could have those discussions with ScotRail or perhaps look towards the next franchise to sort out that problem. I wonder also if the Equality Act 2010, which was one of the very good pieces of legislation of our Labour Government, and the public sector equality duty included in that, perhaps already as well, would perhaps cater for the point that Nigel Don raises. I wonder if the Scottish Government might explore that too. I thought that Patricia Ferguson raised a very interesting point about insurance premiums for travel abroad. That is another thing that has come up in my constituency as well, because people with disabilities and elderly people do face increased premiums for travel insurance. That some insurance companies now restrict insurance for foreign travel to people who are under 70. As someone who is reaching for that short, I feel that very keenly. Yes, I think that that is absolutely right. We do not have jurisdiction over that in this Parliament. There is probably not even jurisdiction over it in the UK Parliament, but I wonder if that is something that we should all at cross-party discuss with our colleagues in the European Parliament, because I think that it is something that the single market on insurance at European level could possibly deal with. It sounds to me like an issue that could be raised quite legitimately in the European Parliament. I was very struck by Liam McArthur's personal experiences, like I was by Margaret McDougall's, in their own families. I think that actually Liam McArthur's contribution raised the importance of good facilities when we are travelling, as did Mark McDonald's contribution when he told us that Scotland's airports are doing a lot to help people with disabilities to navigate their way through. I did not know that, and that is very good to hear. I would like to finish, if you will allow me, to come back to my point about PAMAS and its campaign on the changing places toilet facilities. I think that this is particularly important. I will go back to my point about financial inclusion as well, because not everyone in our community can afford a holiday—we are talking about tourism today—but days out make a real difference to the quality of people's lives, as Patricia Ferguson said, being able to spend that time as a family or with friends. People who do not have access to the changing and toilet facilities are restricted to them. Mark McDonald raised that not one of those facilities in the New Museum of Scotland could commit today to an audit of the changing places facilities across Scotland and see where the gaps are in the tourism industry and, indeed, in shopping facilities and in other facilities. I think that that might be a good step forward from today's debate. Many thanks. I now call on Fergus Ewing to wind up the debate. On behalf of the Government, Mr Ewing, you have the five o'clock, please. Thank you very much indeed, Presiding Officer. I thoroughly enjoyed this debate. I congratulate all members on their contributions, which have been varied, thoughtful and replete with examples of experiences from the lives of their own families who have a disability or friends or constituents, insightful and extremely helpful. I will be asking, as I always do, the Scottish Government officials in the tourism section to study the official report and where a specific response has been sought and a specific point to ensure that I answer it if I do not do so in the next wee while. Presiding Officer, as I am conscious that perhaps there was around about 100 points put, and it is as though I am in an examination where I have got 10 minutes to answer 100 questions. Therefore, I suspect that I probably will not be able to do all of it. For example, to take one point, Mark McDonald asked specifically about facilities in the new Museum of Scotland. I will come back to him on that equally to other members who have specific points of that nature. I would appreciate it if members feel particularly strongly about any of the particular matters that they have raised with me. I fail to answer it in the next nine minutes, then they should please write to me, and I will most certainly do that. That is my responsibility about matters on which members feel strongly, although perhaps that is a risky strategy since MSPs as a breed tend to feel strongly on just about everything. I want to respond in three particular sections where I think that there was a number of points raised. First, in relation to the response of the private sector and business. I mentioned Mark Rothall from the Scottish Tourism Alliance. Today, I had the pleasure of lunch with the executive of the SDA earlier this week. The SDA, who now have more than 250 members, as opposed to 90 just a short while ago, are now the main voice of the private sector and tourism, and they have agreed to be a champion in promoting accessible tourism. I mentioned earlier that there are 625 businesses registered on the online training programme with 67 having completed it, but the SDA messaging to the industry is to reach 5,000 businesses. I would also mention bodies such as the Federation of Small Business, who represent a very large number of small bed and breakfast and small establishments, and they, too, will play a very constructive role. I would also point out other opportunities that we might want to take in promoting the online training toolkit, such as evidenced in the Wood Commission, suggesting that secondary school pupils of S4, 5 and 6 might be encouraged to complete the online training to better attitudes, because, in part, this is about education and about attitudes of society. Just as drink driving was behaviour that became seen as totally unacceptable perhaps a few decades ago, and just as smoking in restaurants and pubs has, in the last decade, become something that is regarded as unacceptable, so too perhaps behaviour of a sort that is lacking respect to people with a disability will, too, I suspect, become seen as unacceptable and beyond the pale. That is partly a matter of social attitudes and a matter of effective communication of a training programme, which has cost relatively little but has already started to begin to achieve good things. Also involved in the general section about business in the private sector, Nanette Milne mentioned an excellent example of Crathie holidays. I understand that Maggie McAlpine is a member of the accessible tourism steering group, and I am informed that, in her establishment, they have welcomed over 620 disabled people with 1,400 holidays. 51 per cent of the bookings in 2013 came from people who had previously enjoyed a holiday repeat business. The reason I refer to this excellent holiday establishment is that, if they have succeeded in providing excellent facilities, that is a sign to many other businesses that there is a great business opportunity in doing this. Crathie holidays are by no means alone in that respect, so I praise them and potential new establishments like the Ring Farm that was mentioned, I think, by Patricia Ferguson and which I had the pleasure to cut the sod upon recently. I thank the minister for giving me the opportunity, a brief intervention. I think that the point about Crathie opportunities is that it is an opportunity for all and not just people with disabilities, because their doors are open, although they are fully accessible for people with any disability. They are open for all, and that includes people who have no disability. I am glad that Dennis has corrected me there. He is absolutely right. I think that I may have mentioned earlier that people with a disability will often be accompanied by carers or friends, and sometimes as many as four or five people. They tend to stay for a longer period, so I think that Dennis is absolutely correct. Many members mentioned various issues about rail. I am pleased to say that the ScotRail franchise has fairly rigorous new commitments that members will welcome and the Procurement for the Caledonian Sleeper franchise. However, I think that I should refer to the four or five members who referred to Waverly and problems there. I am advised that Network Rail continues to engage with disability organisations to address concerns and raise the result of the removal of taxis from inside Waverly station in June, which was required for security reasons. What I would have to say is that it is not my portfolio responsibility, so I have to choose my words with a measure or a degree of care to avoid getting into certain difficulty here. However, members from every party in this chamber raise their concerns about this aspect. It would be sad if security were to triumph over the needs of disability. We would all be sad about that. I do not know the particular criteria concerned, of course, but what I will most certainly do is pass a copy of the official report both to Keith Brown, who is the colleague and minister responsible for this, and Mr Montgomery, the chief executive of Transport Scotland, and ask that I be provided with an explanation as to whether there is any prospect that improvements can be made for an issue that has been raised by a great number of members. Out of respect to this chamber, that is something that it would be appropriate to do. The third area of topics that were raised concerned is Visit Scotland. First of all, I am happy to say to respond to, I think, was it Mark Griffin or was it Mark McDonald or Dennis Robertson, a memory beginning to fail me here, that the website was not as friendly as it should be with regard to information about accessible tourism. I am pleased to report that Visit Scotland discussed this matter today, and they are changing the website accordingly to make it more accessible. I did like that phrase of Winston Churchill's action this day. It is not often that I can give such a good example of it having taken place. Chris McCoy is the head of Visit Scotland's Equality and Diversity and is the accessible tourism project manager. I am pleased to mention Chris McCoy, because she has played a blinder in taking forward this agenda. She is recognised in the sector as having given the dynamism, leadership and vision and energy and enthusiasm to this. As I remarked to her recently, Chris McCoy made Lawrence of Arabia look like a couch potato. That was meant as a compliment. I apologise that I have to just move to a conclusion. This has been a great debate. We have covered a large number of areas. We have had a lot of positive suggestions. I am confident that many of the things that we can do so that people with a disability can enjoy a holiday just as the rest of us are not things that necessarily involve huge expenditure of money, taxpayers or otherwise, but simply involve all of us treating people with a disability in the same way that we treat everybody else, as Stuart Stevenson and Dennis Robertson urged us to do, with courtesy, respect, friendliness and regard to their particular considerations. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr Ewing. That ends the debate on accessible tourism. Can I just take this opportunity to thank the BSL interpreters and the Palantipists who have assisted us throughout the day? We are most grateful to you. The next item of business is consideration of motion number 10987, in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick, on causal membership for the Committee of the Regions. I call on Joe Fitzpatrick to move the motion. The question in this motion will be put decision time to which we now come. There are three questions to be put as a result of today's business. The first question is at amendment number 10988.1, in the name of Jenny Marra, which seeks to amend motion number 10988, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on accessible tourism, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The amendment is therefore agreed to. The next question is at motion number 10988, in the name of Fergus Ewing, as amended on accessible tourism, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion as amended is therefore agreed to. The next question is at motion number 10987, in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick, on causal membership for the Committee of the Regions, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. That concludes decision time and I close this meeting. And this week.