 Okay, we're glad to know that you're still there. It's the breakfast on Plus TV Africa, and we're going to talk energy now, especially power. Nigeria generates only just a little over 4,000 megawatts of electricity. Some people even debate that it is not up to that. It's about 3,000 megawatts for a country of over 200 million people, and that is grossly inadequate. And so stakeholders have been asked to invest more or drive more investment into this energy sector so that we can have at least 200,000 megawatts of electricity in Nigeria. And so how can that come to be? And why is that really, really necessary? We're going to be talking with the CEO, CapTree Chairman Hydrogen and New Energy's Group of Nigerian Gas Association in the person of Mr. Olabo Desho Wumi. Good morning and welcome to the program, Mr. Sho Wumi. Good morning, it's a pleasure to meet you at the station. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Okay, so as we all know, the energy supply, the power we have in Nigeria is grossly inadequate. 200 million people, and we are having 4,000, or even if it's 5,000, it's kind of ridiculous. But when we think about this thing, the first thing that crosses our mind is why is it so hard to generate electricity in a country with abundance of water, abundance of sunlight, abundance of wind, and everything else that can be used to generate this electricity? Why is it that difficult? Okay, so the problem is really not generation because, yes, we have within the system about 4,000 megawatts, but there is an installed capacity that is significantly more than that. So what that means in simple terms is that if you were to generate, assuming today for two times of that, we are not able to transmit it because our transmission network is limited and the limitations is what stops a transmission, what stops what is being generated from being transmitted. Of course, the other part of it is the distribution network. In simple terms, the network, I mean, the value chain is running at a loss. So if you were to produce power at, say, 100 naira, the cost of selling it as of today is less than that 100 naira. So there is an issue of the supply chain issue. So as a result, you'll find out that some of those within the distribution system, that's the discourse, they choose, they pick and choose where they actually want to sell their power. So there's a new world of issues, which are peculiar to Nigeria. There are no technical issues. So it's not about competence and all those kinds of things, but there are supply chain issues that are limiting the availability of power to the average Nigeria. Of course, another factor, which is ingredient, is the culture and attitude of the Nigerian environment. I mean, so typically, when you see a person who is engaged in energy theft, so he bypasses a meter and gets power for himself, the average person calls such a person a smart guy. I mean, what that means, what they seem to forget is that that money goes into a system. And as a result, I mean, as a result, somebody has to pay for it. So they're not really smart, they're just cheating the system. And the more people cheat the system, the more likely the system is going to collapse. So our own thinking as a people as well is also a hindrance to the proper functioning of the industry as a whole. Yeah, well, we'll still, sorry, Maureen. We'll still talk about all this, but you're talking about cheating the system. And the system also seems to be cheating the people and making the people even smarter. Who has learned to shoot without missing, others have learned to fly without pitching and so on. You find where people, where the discourse or whoever is responsible comes and gives you estimated bill that is crazy enough to just make you shout. And sometimes there is no power at all for a long time and you're still paying the bills that are really, really crazy and made the people to become so smart. But it still boils to the why. Why is it that a system cannot be checked in such a way that we will have what we need to have at what time that we need to have? Because we've seen other times where we have been able to conquer, for instance, payment of salary. It used to be paid by hand. And because of that, there were a lot of things that were happening. There was a lot of corruption in the payment and all that. Now they pay through the banks and these things have been reduced. So why is it still a problem that will fester in our economy that we cannot check these things that happen that are not good enough? Okay, so these are about systems thinking. So it's just a basically understanding systems function. Yes, you are right. There are sharp practices within the discourse, which I think to some extent, even the regulators are aware of that. But there's a system in place in which you should check that. The solution to it is not for the customer to also cheat the system. So if we are to use the common patterns, it's two wrongs, don't make it right. Now, the point I'm trying to make in all of this is not to apportionably. The question you asked me is that why don't we have power? And I liked the factors that are hindering power. And whether it is the discourse that is cheating the system or it is the people that are cheating the system, it is the system that is suffering. So what we are looking at in a situation is that in a bit for one party to get wiser, the system suffers. But at the end of the day, it's still the system. And what that means is that you don't have a system that is functional. And what that means is that you don't have people who have power. So my job is not to apportionably. That's for people within law enforcement and people within the mind is to give a technical analysis and to identify what are the causative factors on the issues. And that's what I've done. So probably at the end of the day, like I said, if we are to look at solutions, there has to be a reorientation, a cultural reorientation. So Peter Drucker has said that culture defeats strategy. In other words, no matter the strategy or the ideas that are going to be brought to solve the problem in the power sector, as long as the culture of the people is antagonistic to those new ideas, those ideas will not function. So there is a reorientation in terms of the average, the thinking of the average Nigerian, which is important for the power sector to actually function. All right. Over the years, we've heard these problems of transmission, distribution, which you've highlighted. And then you've also said it's a peculiar thing to us. You know, we have a peculiar challenge as a people, which is a major reason why we're not having light. And so I'm wondering why government after government have not been able to identify and deal with these peculiar challenges that are peculiar to us as a people. And another thing is, as long as the people continue to feel cheated, as Niamgol has said, and as long as the people continue to feel like, what am I gaining from being a Nigerian anyway? If I can tap energy and steal it somehow, somehow, maybe that's the only thing. Because you're talking about the mindset, you're talking about the culture. So it's a whole bouquet of problems. Talk to us on how this present administration, should be tackling these peculiar challenges that Nigeria has beyond talk. Because Nigerians have had all these talks over time and over time. And experts like yourself have also talked repeatedly. But Nigerians want to see action. I mean, can we not do this? Is it something that we as a people should just give up? Look, this is your destiny as a people to remain in darkness. Is that the answer? Is that the final discussion? Or should we be having over this matter? Or is there a way out? OK, first of all, in order to solve a problem, you need to analyze it. So my mind, I think that was a scientist. He had a PhD in chemistry. And growing up as a child, I used to see him working in the lab. And one of the things he would see is that you need to separate the facts so that you can actually identify what is the causative factors. You have made a number of things up in the question. So there are some types of it that is political. I mean, a politician. That's for politicians to look. There are some a bit of it that are social. So those issues of whether people feel that they're in ignorance or not, those ones have nothing to do with the power sector. Those are social issues in the industry. But things with the power sector, it doesn't matter whether people have identified it and mentioned it one million years. As long as they do not correct it, those things will be there. So for example, if a student feels yake, as long as the person has not been taking yake, he remains failed. So for the student to pass yake, he has to study again, take the exam, ask, there is issue with transmission. Unless those issues with transmission are solved, nothing will happen. So if it is not solved next year, it will still remain that those are the factors that needs to be done. Now as to the issues of whether government should just do it. The power sector is privatized. So there are aspects of it that are privatized. So there are aspects of it that are not in the hands of government. And that is important to note. So if they are not in the hands of government, what are the things that people can do to answer people to correct those things? So those are the kind of questions we should be looking at. How can the private sector be more effective in their work to ensure that they produce for the nation in terms of what we should do? I think those are the questions that are to be asked. And then people need to be knowledgeable. Nobody ever achieved anything with ignorance. We're not all angry and forceful there. So in other words, people need to understand the fundamentals of how this power sector works. And based on that understanding, put pressure on the government in the right areas. Why are you asking the abrigment on the street? Are you telling them that? Okay, so these are the issues. These are the issues. What do you have with this? They say, no, I don't care. I don't want to know. All I want is power. But that's not how life works. I mean, during the global crisis, there was a time I was in Australia and the nation, they did a proper of the issues to the extent that even the plumber, the bricklayer and all that, they understood what the forest was saying, what the issues are. So when people contributed, they contributed based on knowledge. Here, people don't contribute based on knowledge. They contribute based on emotion. They contribute based on feeling. They contribute based on a lot of other services. Not because, Mr, show me, because of time. We understand that the states can now, the federal government has given them the grid light to generate and transmit. So we've discussed this before. We're wondering why are we still where we are? And so there is a level of discussion. There's a level you get to in telling the people, you know, discussing and telling people, giving them terms and explaining to them. And then they get to a point where there's, okay, we've heard. Can we now begin to see actions? Okay. First of all, the federal government did not give them access. The constitution was amended to the extent that they are now able to generate power. And it's not only the states that can generate power. Even the local government can generate power. In simple terms, you can get your local government, which has its own allocation, to make a plan for a few streets or a few areas to also generate power. So the options are large. And those things are important to note because the demand requirement for the average household is very small. If you put a one megawatt plant, it's going to cover more than 10 kilometer area of houses anyway, even in the city, in Lagos, which is supposed to be one of the areas that demands greater power per household. So there is a lot of options for everyone. It is also a private sector apart to it. So when people say, just like you are saying, where are we going to see things happen? It's not everything that is government. So there is sheer responsibility. And the aspect, the thinking, the essence that makes people believe that all solutions must be from the central government is part of the problem. But that is not my own point to identify. Mine is to just talk about the issues within the industry. So these are the issues within the industry. Power sector generation requires social amount of money. When we generate it, the options are should you go to the national grid or should you have a mini grid? Those are the things that are available. And until those things are pursued individually, there will not be power. So there is no margin to it. The idea is the idea of the thinking that we should just give up as a people is lazy thinking. You cannot see a problem and rather than understanding the problem, analyzing the problem and making our solutions, you just don't think that and give up. No, it doesn't work like that. Let me understand what you mean until these things are carried out individually. Let me understand that. Yes. You mean the problems individually or carried out by individuals. You know, people should take it up. What do you mean by? Look at the industry. So the industry, when you talk about the industry or any industry, even if you take your example, your media industry, say for example, somebody wants to start a TV station. He needs to get a license. He needs to get his engineering in place, procure equipment. He needs to broadcast, he needs to do certain things. So if for any reason, a TV station is not getting the signals out, you need to look within that supply chain to find out what is the issue and solve it. Now in the power sector, it's a little, it's a lot like that supply chain. Now, some parts of that supply chain is not one. A number of parts of that supply chain are not working. So what I'm saying is that until you address each aspect of that supply chain, until you address each aspect of that supply chain, the aspects of the supply chain that needs to be addressed, can you hear me? Hello, can you hear me? Yes, wrap it up. Just your final statement, please. So basically the aspects of the supply chain, the individual aspects of the supply chain is what I'm referring to as the individual until those things are addressed individually. You can't result. By who? By who? The government or the private sector? By the people who are responsible. Because it's not everything that is going to one person. Some things are private sector, some things are government and some things are the people. Okay. It's everybody that has a responsibility. Yeah. Well, like scripture says, all I've seen them fall into the glory of God. So all of us have to contribute in one way or the other to make sure that we have power the way we should have it and when we should have it in this country. So let's lend our voices to that. We would like to thank you, Mr. Omi for coming on the program and lending your voice. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. We've been talking with Mr. Ola Boudis Omi, the CEO, Cap Tree and also chairman, Hydrogen and New Energies Group of Nigerian Gas Association. He was talking to us on the need for stakeholders to drive more investment to bridge energy deficits and things that need to be done for this to come about and he highlighted some of the problems that we have in the energy sector and all of us are culpable. So we have to sit up, say something when we see something and do something when we need to do something. I'm proud that you didn't get so emotional. I am more in my long ways. We're very thankful for being a part of the show today. My name is Nyam Gul Agadji. Let's do the gate tomorrow. Bye for now.