 Tuesday, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office announced the death of an inmate at the Duvall County Jail. This marks the 12th death this year and the first since the new private healthcare contractor, NatCare, took over. Nate, what are you hearing about this story? Well, I mean, in some ways, this particular story kind of touches on a couple of different issues. The man who died was homeless and was also there because of a misdemeanor trespassing charge. Those are kind of wrapping a couple of different issues. The sheriff was actually on this show that very day the death was announced kind of downplaying the idea that JSO locks up people for misdemeanors for significant amounts of time. And that kind of same breath also defended his kind of obstinance about an adult civil citation program about implementing one here, just a way of diverting some people from going to jail for nonviolent offenses. And so it was kind of, the timing of it was interesting. I mean, we would absolutely love for the sheriff to come back and talk to me about all of these issues. And actually that death occurred on Monday. They did not release the news until Tuesday. And so the sheriff sitting here with me did know about it. His comment though was specifically that most of these misdemeanor cases, they're out of jail the next morning. Well, not according to this poor gentleman. He was there for two weeks. This guy was there for 13 days. Yeah, 13 days. Which blows me away. I mean, he's a waiting trial on a misdemeanor trespass charge. I mean, we got people being released crossing the border seeking amnesty. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but they're being released. We got a guy that we're paying the cost of housing. Why are we holding this guy for two weeks for a trial? Give him a citation and notice to appear. But the fact that it's under NAF care is, I don't know if that's just a raw issue right now with healthcare at the jail. And again, this is another tragic death at the jail 12th this year. But what happened? I mean, that's what I wanna see the video, right? What happened? The guy is seen moving around his cell at 10 o'clock, come back two hours later, and he's under the bonk and he's unresponsive. What happened that two hour period? I mean, was there any diagnosis of any health issue? Was he under meds? I mean, we have not received any more information on this case at this point. Again, let's not forget the sheriff did indicate that they're aware of NAF care's shortcomings. So in this case, this new contract comes with some eyes open. So I like to say in a year, let's see what happens. The sheriff said that adults who make adult decisions get adult prizes when questioned about adult citations. I would just once again like to say that I would love to have a conversation with the sheriff, but he won't speak to me. So the chair is open any time. I don't know what you mean. He talks how transparent he is. I can't believe that. Why wouldn't he come on the show? Yeah, it's a, I mean, you know, I don't know if you'd have to ask him, but I would love to have a conversation with him. And Dan did a great job talking to him, but also I have some questions that I would like to ask. We've got a caller on the line, Todd, on the south side, Todd, how are you today? And thank you for talking to me. Good morning to everyone on the panel. Yes, I wanted to make a comment. And it would take some time to explain everybody why he won't talk to you, but I think I have a good idea. TK Waters, the sheriff was on and he said that we really don't have any racial issues in Jacksonville. I don't know if I'm quoting him correctly, but my question is that's pretty a dangerous thing to say. If he doesn't have a police unit dealing with the white supremacist groups in this area, we've got a real serious problem. He's got a gang unit, drug unit. Where is the unit to deal with a question of white supremacy and the different organizations that exist in Jacksonville? Todd, thanks so much for your question. I would just say that like with the reporting that I have done on issues of white supremacy, I'm actually working on a story right now with the other show I host reveal. And the idea of law enforcement not taking white supremacy serious is not just confined to this city. It's a national thing. One of the stories that I'm working on right now is about the protests that happened in Denver after George Floyd's death. And the FBI had planted an informant in the racial justice movements, which were by and large peaceful until this informant riled it up. But they had no idea what was going on in groups like the Proud Boys around that time as well. And then soon after January 6th happened. So I think that what Todd has identified is not a local thing, it's a national thing, where we tend to not put as much attention as needed on these white supremacist movements. And I think January 6th is a clear reminder of that because that is a monumental failure of intelligence on the part of the FBI and other national agencies. We're gonna go to Tom in the west side, Tom, how are you? I'm wonderful. How about you, Phil, today? I'm just so glad that you called in to talk to me. Oh, excellent. I just wanted to say that what I get from the article I read on Mr. Givens and his arrest is it seems like the jail was the wrong place for him to be anyway. What I took away from the article was that this was a man dealing with severe mental health issues and probably should have been in the hospital, which stands does have a mental health unit or MHRC, and the last place he should have been in was the jail, so he definitely should not have died in jail. Thank you, Tom. Thank you so much for calling out and giving it to our panel. Dan? Well, according to the tributary and other media sources, he was in a hospital complaining of hip pain and refused treatment and then apparently hung around for whatever reason we don't know and that's where the trespassing charge came from. So again, not to indicate what his state of mind was at the time, but he was in a hospital and if he'd stayed there possibly, there would have been some mental health resources applied at said hospital. Yeah, agreed. I mean, that's what the story said. He was seeking medical care and he was trespassed out and arrested. I mean, so what medical care did he receive over the 12 days or 14 days? However long he was at Duvall County Stockade. I don't know, but it's a great question. Ongoing investigation, they were to ask, I'm sure. I think one thing that the caller brings up that I think we talked about this last Friday if I'm correct, but in this society, we expect the police department to do everything, right? Or the sheriff's office to do everything. They're supposed to be mental health counselors. They're supposed to break up domestic violence. They're supposed to blah, blah, blah, all of these things. And it just feels like if we as a city like really put some thought into how you could shift, change the paradigm from what we are doing currently where the police are supposed to candle everything to thinking about like, if this man has mental health issues, then maybe you don't call the police out for it. Maybe he doesn't go to jail. Maybe he goes to somewhere that's dedicated to helping people like him. I think too many times we tend to think about punishing people instead of thinking about how can we help people. Al, amen. I mean, and that's been a chronic problem. It's been an ongoing problem here in the city. Jacksonville and nationwide as well. I mean, let's face it. But I remember when Congressman Rutherford was sheriff, I mean, we used to get an annual battles about his budget and he said, Jack, listen, here's the deal. My agency is the largest provider of mental health care services in the county, in the county. And so whatever. Yeah. And we're going to go to the phone. We've got Azim. Azim, how are you this morning? Hi, good morning. I'm actually one of the, I'm an internal medicine resident at UofL in my third year in my training. I just want to make a brief comment because we see these jail patients come to UF quite often. Niall, they do come to the ER and I'm sure many of them do go back. But I think in my three years at UF, there's always a question about whether or not when we treat a patient when we send them to the jail, what access do they have to medications and antibiotics? And it's not, it's not that frequent that sometimes they do come back because of some laps in their treatment. So I can't really comment on what happened to this gentleman who unfortunately passed away. But one thing that comes to my mind is if he either wasn't given a medication that he was due to be scheduled to be given or it was a lapse in some kind of care. It's unfortunate that it happened though. Azim, thank you so much for calling in. You talk about mental health though. There are three officers who are paired with the mental health officials as part of a new program. I think they have another one coming online. And they are assigned to cases where they possibly will divert them to a mental health program. But again, that's three officers with three mental health out of 900, 1,000 officers. It's a start. It's a great idea. We were only the second sheriff's office in the state to do that. So I applaud them for that. But perchance, you need dedicated teams in each zone focusing on certain things. And maybe you need a team at Shands, which UF Shands, which is of course our trauma unit where most of the indigent care goes. Interesting. I think we're talking to here. It's a confluence between mental health and physical health. We don't really know as a caller just said. It could have been failure to provide meds. What meds was he on? We don't know. He was seeking medical care at the hospital. He was trespassed out and arrested. So it's more information. I mean, a bigger problem here is that the sheriff's office has not been transparent about these deaths beyond acknowledging that they've happened, which is a very low standard. We just don't know a lot about any of these cases. And that's unacceptable. All we know is that there have been a lot. 12 is a lot for a county of this size and for that jail population. Something is deeply wrong. And the city and the city council seem intent on having a discussion about building a new jail that's kind of taking place in a vacuum. Like they don't want to touch these larger issues. It's like we just want to talk about getting a new jail. And I think that's a mistake because jail deaths are not happening because there's not fresh paint on the wall. They're happening because of management and because of the administration and running of the jail. And if you don't address that, if you don't address, as you guys are talking about our mental health issues, to some degree, even our homelessness problem, like all of this is gonna be for naught and we'll end up spending a ton of money building a new jail and just having the same old problems. Yes. I think that one thing that I'm always reminded of when I hear about these jail deaths and a lot of times I think when you're talking about them, there's a general apathy because these are people who have died locked up. And the thing that I'm always thinking about is, but did their crime necessitated death sentence? And that's what we should be asking. And of course the answer is no. That these people are Jacksonville residents. They're Jacksonvillians. That's right, Jacksonvillians, not Jacksons. They're Jacksonvillians and they should be treated with respect and care.