 Yn ymwneud, ymdweud. Rwy'n cyffredinol y cyfrifysgol. Yn ymdweud yw'n cyfrifysgol, ymdweud. Rwy'n cyfrifysgol yng ngyfnogaeth. Yn ymdweud, ymdweud, ymdweud. Yn ymdweud, ymdweud, ymdweud. Yn ymdweud, ymdweud. Arun, roeddwn ni'n gymryd ei wneud? Yn ymdweud ymdweud? Mwyn fydd ychydig, dyma'r cyfrifysgol. Mae'n cyfrifysgol ar y cyfrifysgol. Councillor Bill Handley, a Councillor Martin Cahn yn subod i'r llwyth. Thank you, Marty. Of course he's superb. Apologise, counciller. Is that better? Yes. Just so just for anybody watching live stream, that's an apology for absence from Councillor Bill Handley with Councillor Martin Cahn subing in place. That will be the many thousands watching the live stream. Right. Declarations of interest from members gathered here today. Wel, nid. Dyw am i'n f안, diswp am y bydd i yw'r peth yn tudu yn sfrifau bod byd, yn ymgyrch chi ti'n ddyddol sydd y byd. Yn y bydd yma. Yn y bydd 3. Mae'n ddigon ni'n ddim yn yr olygu ar yr olygu y bydd 4. Onw'n dwi'n meddwl. Mae'n ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim. Mae'n ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn digon'n ddiolch, ddim yn ddim yn gwerthu'r aranov. Rhaid i. Rhefn i uchydigol Cymru yn y dyma i'r ystod yr ydym o'r cyffrein iawn. Felly Simon Llywodraeth yn y cynnwys iawn, gallwn amser i deimlo. Felly, byddwch i'n gwybodaeth. Fel yna'r hyffordd yn agor beth o'r cyfrein iechyd. Rydym yn credu'r cyfrifiad. A oedd yn digwydd, so. Dwy'n greu, dyma, oedd yn deimlo. Felly, i wneud i fynd i chi'n githl fydd yna, this will be my last grants advisory committee, and I will be handing over to Cecilia, so Catherine is here today and Cecilia because Catherine will be overseeing the grants supporting Cecilia when necessary. So that's that bit and I will crack on now with the review of the ysgol ychydig o'r rhan o'r tîm. Mae'r gynhyrch yn gwneud o'r rhaglenoedd. Mae'r gynhyrch o'r anfermwysau o'r cyfnod o'r criterio a'r proses. Mae'r gynhyrch o'r anfermwysau o'r rhan o'r gynhyrch o'r rhan o'r anfermwysau o'r rhan o'r anfermwysau o'r anfermwysau o'r anfermwysau o'r anfermwysau. Mae'no ni yn ni bromfod cyfnod â'r cym � anesthau bach o bizhaff boi roddiag o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach o bach. Cor kicking co igyendenschy fazb golygu o'r eff Stanley Ie, oes oeddaeth eich grwyddoedd yn gweithio'r proses trwy'r proses bai amser. Rwy'n meddwl chi'n gyflawni'r proses ar y cyfnodig sydd wedi'i meddwl perffredigol gyda'i grwyddoedd cyflawni. Mae hyn yn meddwl i'r pot i'r dda, ac yn mynd i gyflawni'r proses bai, ac nid i'n diom wedi'u tymru i yn ystyried feddwl mwy o bwysigol a tynnu'r bysigol am du. Mae'r gwerth ddelwys, ond mae'n fawr hyn a'r cael ei fod yn dod. Ac mae'n edrych yn ôl i drawb y peth, nid i gnewch yn un ac roedd yn ddweud. Roedd ddodd y gwerth ddiddori i yn ysgrifennu, a rydyn ni'n hi wedi'u dod i'r dydych chi i'n meddwl. ...gymaint mewn cyfathorolbarth sy'n lle, yn cyfodol, chi'n dechrau'n ymlaen. Yn ynddo'r hynny, nid yn ychydig... ...rysaf, y ddechrau C rezlau Covid, y gwaith yma, rydych yn ogylcheddu 50,000... ...y bod yna'r plann sydd yn gwneud pechau cofiydd... ...syf sydd wedi cyfathorol cofiydd sydd yn ei bach yn ostane... ...yna'r cyfathorol cofiydd ychydig... ...yna'r cyfathorol cofiydd ychydig cofiydd... Parish Council will also be eligible to apply for this funding and this will be available until the end of October 2023, which is the time we have officer support on the project. And then finally, we'd like to increase the upper ward for all community chest grants from £1,000 to £2,000, just feel that we'll be able to support projects better. We'll enable people to, well, projects and community groups to not have to shop around for too much other support. And as we've seen over, you know, even the last few months, a lot of projects are quite in excess of the £1,000 that, you know, was the maximum fund previously. And everything is going up in cost, the cost and materials we've all seen is harder to get and also much more expensive than we've seen previously. And the last item is just doing, just to reference community interest companies as being eligible to apply to the community chest grant fund. I mean, they are eligible to apply, but it just needs to be stipulated within the criteria just for clarity. That's a very brief overview. We'd welcome any questions on that. Thank you very much, Vicky. Cleo. Yes, thank you, Vicky. I've got a question concerning a community-led plan. I'm not quite sure myself how that will look in our villages, what a community-led plan might consist of. But I'm aware that some villages are interested in doing, perhaps putting together a village design guide. And in 2018 there was funding for, I think it was eight village design guides. And I know that's more of a professional sort of planning document. But my question is, could some of this money be used for assistance with community? I can see the lead member finance shaking his head, so that answers my question. Okay, so I won't continue down that line. I thought, oh, I'd just try it on. And so then also my question is, what would, if a village wanted to, in a typical village, which has, say, ten little organisations going on, you know, Bowls Club, a craft club, choir or whatever, they would presumably not be able to apply individually for this grant. It would have to be, they'd have to create a community-led plan in order to access this money. Yeah, I suppose, you know, those individual groups, if they needed some funding, could apply to the normal community chest funding as applications we see anyway. What this is trying to encourage is for communities to basically build on that sense of inclusion that we've seen over COVID and just see what villages and parishes want to build on and improve within their communities. And the purpose of this money is to kind of encourage them to perhaps take on a community-led plan or assist them with something they're already doing. So, you know, surveying the residents, putting on events, you know, Emma and I working on the project along with Catherine. And we're kind of seeing that the range of what people want to do is quite diverse. But they all want to build in that sense of inclusion again and build on what they've already established throughout COVID. And we just want to kind of enhance that and give them some, you know, financial support where possible to achieve what they can within their communities. I mean, Catherine, if you wanted to add anything more to that, then do. I think you've pretty much covered it. Thank you, Vicki. I just, it's for the creation of the plan itself. It's not for the project. This particular port of funding would be ring-fenced and it wouldn't be used for the projects that would be delivered as a consequence of the creation of a community-led plan. But those organisations that you speak of, Councillor Daunton, that might want to apply for funding anyway, would be able to do so from the other side of the community-gest fund, as Vicki said. So, ladies, could I just clarify, Catherine and Vicki, that in the criteria when people look at the actual, whether they're eligible or not, would Claire's points be able to be vocalised, so to speak, as text, so that it gives people the, unless it's already there, of course, gives people the option, you know, the ability to understand that they are able to apply and the criteria. You know, you can't, if you want to all do it, then you need to come down together, et cetera. Would that be something that could be added in? We think we've got that covered. If you feel as though that's not clear and wouldn't be clear to groups applying, we would be able to add in something that said, yes, those explained even more clearly that the costs involved with delivering products are eligible from a community-gest itself. And we've tried to just explain that community-led plans themselves are funded by this extra money. So, I think it's clear, and we'll be glad about you. It's just we do have some people of applicants who get very confused. So, we've said, perhaps, take the lowest common denominator. We've said costs involved with undertaking a community, so under a heading of what should be, what can be funded, we've said costs involved with undertaking and creating a community-led plan, brackets, resulting projects will only receive funding where they would have been eligible for the community-gest anyway. Right, yeah. Confused.com, but firstly, I haven't quite grasped what sort of community-led plan are we actually talking about. Are we talking about electric points for cars at the village? No, see, you're shaking your head and so I'm all confused. Those are the kinds of projects that might come out of the creation of a community-led plan. That would be a project that would emerge from it. And then if it were eligible, then that project could apply to the community-gest like any other project. The creation of the plan is the surveying of an entire village or community, depending on how broadly you want your community-led plan to cover, community events, those sorts of things. The costs of, if you're going to print a survey or print the plan, the costs involved in that, but not the project work that comes out of it. It's just the creation of an action plan and priorities of different kinds of projects that a village would like to undertake. Some of those will be health and wellbeing focused, some will be environment-focused, as you've said. Some will be sports and activities-focused. Those activities themselves can't have this money, but the creation of the plan that brings all of those together, that's what this is for, because it's using post-COVID support money to help communities deliver on the progress that they've already made through COVID, and might want to continue and broaden. OK. I'm not sure, personally, but still. Any other questions from colleagues? Pete. A little bit following from Sue's point. I'm not against this fund. It actually sounds very sensible, especially the fact that we're going to roll it through to October 2023. I think, from my point of view, the only thing that's kind of missing at the moment is some real tangible examples, because I do share Sue's concern that if we presented this to the parish, my parishes anyway would scratch their head. But if we gave, so I think that the officers have some good ideas in their head. I don't want to stop this, I think it's very positive. But I think our parishes will really need some help saying, here are five, six, seven, whatever it is, examples, to be able to do it. Otherwise, we're going to get 500 questions. Do you want to come back on Pete's point, Catherine? Sorry, if I may. The work for Emma and Vicky, Emma Dyer, and Vicky have been doing to create the community-led planning toolkit, which is now live on the website, provides you with lots of examples of what community-led plan is, how to do it, action planning templates and so on. So there is a whole toolkit there available to support parishes. Emma's been doing quite a lot of and Vicky have been doing quite a lot of promotion of this at things like all member briefings and in a workshop that was held last week with Councillor Hanley. Lots of parishes, 30 plus parishes came along, were interested in how they should continue beyond Covid, either with a community-led plan or with projects that they just want to set up and get running immediately. So there are lots of parishes already talking about it and doing it or who already had a community-led plan and want to just refresh those. So there is a lot of support. I think if your parishes don't know about it yet, then we need to push that coms even further. It's gone out on social media and in other ways. And as I say, it's on the website. So there are examples and there are examples on the website of what this means. I just need to get that message out to people, I think. Catherine, before John comes in, you've just asked, I don't mind that three people or four of you like to include myself have mentioned the things that have been mentioned, if you like, and I'm going to go over it again. But in the notes here and the agenda item, the appendix aid, on the actual website where it says community-led plan, brackets, parish plan, can that be made into a link or is it already a link? So that's the example. So when someone, they read through that, they go, oh, and they just click on that, and then they go to the examples. So we can actually feed people the information, but just by a link. If we've already done the, or say we, if you guys have already done the work, then we just need to link all that document on the front page, so to those other documents. So people can be led by the nose a little, I think. That's fine. When we drafted this, that page wasn't yet live. It's now live. So that can easily in the criteria on the website. These criteria will be there for community chest. And we can just link that across to the other pages. We've got that's not a problem. That's brilliant. Okay. Thank you, John. Over to you. Yeah. Thank you, Catherine and Vicki. I mean, this is hugely important, actually, because we have seen in many of our villages, people coming together because of COVID. And we don't want to lose that community spirit and partnership that we've been developing in our villages. And this is really, first of all, to help those that are taking this forward, but also to encourage other parish councils to pick it up as well. And so, as much information as possible and guidance, I know you're developing, I think you're developing a toolkit, aren't you, for this as well. So this is all part of that. And I know, you know, when we developed our parish plan, which was back in, you know, getting on for 15 years ago now in Fallbourne. I mean, one strand of that parish plan was looking at what we now call well-being. I mean, we didn't use that terminology back then, but it was principally about, you know, setting up groups or bringing groups together. And that created an amenity group called Fallbourne Forum, which has been going now for near on, well, near on the whole time, you know, near on 15 years now. And that's spun off into Fallbourne Arts and other groups. So it and we didn't have the funding for that then. I mean, it'd been brilliant if we had had this this pot of money because we could have done actually even more. But so I'm very enthusiastic about this. And I think this is a way forward to develop community inclusion in our villages. So I'm all for this. And I say we definitely do need because they're obviously some villages are doing it and and and some, you know, quite rightly, you know, and appreciate that. Don't really understand what it's all about. So we do need the communication to back up this this fund. But I say I'm very supportive of it. Thank you. Thank you, John Clare and then Martin. Thanks and just to follow on what John was saying, I was actually present. I think it was last week, yes, last Thursday at a discussion as a parish council where it wasn't directly related to community led planning, but it could have been. But there was still some confusion over what a community led plan is as opposed to putting effort into a village design guide and a neighbourhood plan. And the latter two are very much planning with a capital P documents. And so I think it's really important to make a distinction between the three so that people know exactly where they're going, how they make a decision on that. Catherine. Yeah, just to say that on that basis, we've taken away any reference to planning in our documents and website when we refer to community led plans and it's now plan or plans, not planning just to just to help help that a little bit. And we've arranged for our second workshop on the 7th of March to include a section that will be delivered by Alison Talkington, who's the council's officer who leads on neighbourhood plans to do a section on the differences between neighbourhood plans, community led plans and the other options that are available to communities if they want to take them. So we're doing what we can and hopefully the toolkit also makes that a distinction as well between the two. Can I can I just start on that on that workshop? Could members be invited as well, please to the work? Yes, members were invited to the first one. They would be again, they'll be invited to everyone. I think we're going to do the quarterly as a minimum. I think so. Pete Mullins next. I'm just thinking here what I'm hearing is that we need to, as I said earlier, we need to have the lowest form of comment denominator. So some parish councils that I attend have a very different, a different ability to understand some of the language that we use as a council. And just because it has the word plan in it, as Claire said, they assume it will do with planning and then you have the 50 questions trying to explain that it's not and it's something else. I mean, it really does need to be the idiot's guide. And I mean that in the politest way. If we if we work on the basis of the the audience that we're aiming is that haven't got a clue what we're talking about, that will then serve us well. If I can invite you all to have a look at the toolkit, then we'd happily take your feedback. So if you want to have a look at the toolkit as it is on the website, I can pop the link in the chat soon and then you'd be able to just have a look and see whether you think we've kind of hit the right tone there. OK, great, poor old marching has been waiting. OK, simply I was going to comment that this is not this is not new material ideas. It's been going on for for for many years. I was I worked 25 to 30 years ago for an organisation called the Countryside and Community Research Unit at the what was then the Shetland Gloucester College of Higher Education and the University of Gloucester, which was running a scheme called British Appraisals, which was very much this thing. That time was before neighbourhood planning. So it was broader to include both the neighbourhood planning and the social side. But there were lots of examples then of villages which took it up. So the methods are there. Therefore, the toolkit is vital, really, because what was clear from that, you need to have some guidance to make it work, get some idea of what you should be doing and good examples. And therefore, I would agree with the people who commented that the the toolkit is important. I will go away and have a look at this and see what might be. See how that's done, but it is important. Thank you, Marks and Pete. Yeah, just quickly, Chair, what would help my parishes a lot? And I think we already have it and maybe Catherine has it at her fingertips was a sort of summary table that says this is what's in would be in a community blood plan. This is what would be in a local neighbourhood plan. And then it very clearly sets out the two things. And I think that would help a lot. Yes, that does exist. There's a document that talks about more than just community blood plans and neighbourhood plans. It talks about community right to build and all sorts of other design statements that villages parishes can take forward. So that's there and that's embedded in the toolkit. The link is now in the chat. Thank you, Catherine. Are we all done on this particular subject? Super. I think we'll go to the next question then or the next one is number three in the Executive Summary. So that's the number four increase in the upper limit from a thousand to two thousand for the community chest. Are we going to discuss that or are we delighted as Vicky described the things that have gone up in my experience? Okay, we'll take that as a big upon Peter. So just for clarity, so this is going forward. So any parishes received a thousand, they don't come back and apply for another thousand. This is one new scheme. Is that right? You're not retrospective, is it? And it doesn't apply to those that we're going to go through today either because of course this is a proposal that hasn't been decided when they applied just to Vicky. Can you remind us a segment? Is there a date for it to start? Yeah, most. It can start from the next round. Yeah, the next consideration will change the criteria and publicise the fact that the upper limit has increased, but we could start it immediately if that's what you'd like to do. Then would we be able to start it from January? Yes, you'd like to start sort of the new year? Yeah. You are covered that, John? Yeah, we have enough money in the in the budget in the pot. Pete, Martin, you agree with that January? The sooner the better to me. I think it's a thousand was really well, the small current terms. Thanks. Okay, colleagues, then the recommendation is on number seven item seven recommend is the grant advisory committee approved these proposals and recommend them to the lead member for finance. So do I have that as a requirement for a vote or do we do this by affirmation? Oh, yeah. Number five is just an inclusion, isn't it of six? I think I was taking that as red. I will agree. Thank you very much. Okay, agenda item number five, which is grants the voluntary sector zero carbon grants. Yeah. Who's leading on a Siobhan? Good morning, Siobhan. Over to you. So this report relates to the zero carbon communities grant scheme. It was drafted by Eleanor Haynes, who apologises. She's not able to be here this morning, but I will run through it. It covers two matters. Firstly, it returns for consideration by the committee, the application for a zero carbon community funding from the Procule Church Council of Gamelon Gay with Hathingsley George and East Hathley for £5,000 towards costs of solar panels and battery storage on the church roof. This application was recommended for approval by grants advisory committee and at Councillor Williams request is returned for reconsideration. Secondly, it sets out that due to unusual circumstances, it hasn't been possible to make two of the awards recommended at the last grants advisory committee and agreed by Councillor Williams, meaning that £20,544 remains of this year's funds are unallocated. And the report presents four options for the spending of this sum and recommends that it is rolled over into next year's zero carbon communities grant scheme. It should be noted that if the award for solar panels and battery storage to the church roof is not made, then this also would be added to this unallocated portion. So I'm happy to run through further details on either of these matters if that would be helpful. I called Mr Hiss at the applicant for the church project yesterday. So hopefully if you have any questions regarding this application, I may be able to answer them. I hope. Well, I was going to ask if I could ask John to let us know why he asked for it to be brought back. Yes, well, I was minded not to support this because having read the previous report, it seemed to me that the church were asking us basically for grant to put PV on their roof without any firm commitment to improving their energy efficiency. Even in terms of energy efficient light bulbs or the gas set replacing the gas gas central heating. And to be honest with you, there are other ways in which they could obtain that money to get to get PV panels on on their roof. And I didn't think it was an appropriate use of the communities fund without that being part of a bigger project to improve the energy efficiency of that building. That's why I was minded not to not to agree to it. Also, I mean, I understand talking to members that it was quite controversial anyway when it came to committee and there wasn't a clear decision made on it. So that's why I asked us to get some more information and to come back to this meeting to have it for me to hear why we should go ahead with this. And I've seen now that we are talking about. Yeah, I'm still still concerned that we're still not talking about improving the energy efficiency of that building. So that that's where it that's that's why it's back here. I'm minded not to I'm still minded not to approve it to be honest on the most recent information, but I'm open to persuasion. Clare. Yeah, so I don't want to rehearse all the discussion that we had last time because John is right. We did have quite a long discussion about this. And I I would support it, but I think I'd want to see it in a broader context because there are many churches who want to do this kind of thing. And I think it was last year we supported St John the Evangelist in Water Beach doing quite a big project on energy efficiency. And I happened to be in there last week and it was very nice and warm. And so my thoughts on this are that we are likely to get more of these kinds of applications and it would really like us to look at it in the round because within community chest we are able to support buildings of historic interest. So in a way this brings two things together both a zero carbon grant and a community chest grant. So I would like to be able to have a criteria that helped other churches to do this kind of thing because I think it would hit both of those both community chest and zero carbon grant on this. I'm not I'm still not sure myself, but I'd like us to think about how we would do that in relation to other churches because I'm sure that we're going to get more of these types of application. I'm a bit uncertain as well, but I mean something that I would want to know is what the what the electricity is going to be used for a large church like this. We'll probably have a little bit of lighting and it won't be yet solar panels will never be of any use really for heating because it won't generate when it's needed and it won't be of a scale, which will have made make much even with a heat pump won't produce enough to build the heat at least at the times of year when you're when you're wanting the heating. So it's not really I think in a sense that heating is a red herring. It's not going to substitute that. It's going to substitute lighting if you've got cooking if you've got washing facilities now within a church not a normal ancient church like there might be a bit of lighting. I can't see them probably having cooking facilities, but maybe there's a maybe there's a village hall next by which can be supplied by this. So I would want to know how the how the energy is going to be used really for it to be useful as a pilot. I mean that is interesting. It will be interesting to see and maybe that's on its own is a justification. But I do feel there's perhaps need for a little bit more information least that for what we've been provided, maybe it's been provided to the to the officers, but we haven't received it. Thank you, Martin. That's a good question, Siobhan. So is there is there much more detail in the application that we haven't seen? There isn't in the application, but I have some further detail or to be honest, actually, I'm not entirely sure what was in the I could check, but what what you've been provided. I can add a little bit of information which is relevant to the questions which are being asked. And so in terms of the use of the electricity, it is for the at the moment, it would only be used for the lighting and also for the pump of that that works with the gas heating system to pump water to pump hot water around the the church. I think one thing which is relevant is that the the PCC have clearly thought through where they're going in terms of their net zero aspirations and they know that a heat pump is where they need to go and a solar panels and battery storage will be if not essential certainly extremely useful to make that feasible. And so so that's that's where they're where they're thinking. However, the current gas heating system is only five years old, so it won't. They're not looking to replace that imminently. I mean, certainly not for the next five years. So, you know, a bit of a bit of further detail there. Thank you, Siobhan Peter. I'm just to echo John John and Clare's comments that I think we just need to take one step back and provide a bit more guidance overall because I do see in next year a lot more coming forward and it would be time well spent now if we just think about the kind of criteria what we're looking for from from these kind of buildings and I think that will help us and help them. Can I say that I am disappointed I would have thought that OK, leaving the heat in the side, they could have tied this in with maybe LED lighting or more energy efficient lighting. It seems to me that an awful lot of this electricity is going to be sold back to the grid at no doubt at a profit to the church. So I am a bit skeptical about this. I'd say I on its own, I'm not as a project as a freestanding project. It's the right place to come for money. So, you know, unless I hear and from what I'm hearing should want, they're not intending to make this as part of is not part of a bigger project. You know, they've got aspirations, but then I actually project that I'm inclined not to not to agree to it and to maybe sign post them to. I mean, it would appear that church seems to have a fund anyway to do this. So, so, you know, I think we should sign post them to other sources of funding purely to put, you know. VP panels on buildings rather than the community fund, which is, you know, on the zero community fund, which is there actually to promote energy efficiency and changes in lifestyle to achieve our zero carbon. And this doesn't do if I don't think so. I think I'm hearing very polite comments from John and to be fair and extremely constructive really. I mean, we should want to help this applicant could be guided in the correct process, correct path. So, perhaps they come back next year and I mean a Martin. Yes, I do want to emphasize that the problem is that it's being used for lighting, which is going to be least demand in the time of year when you're going to produce the most. So the idea that you're exporting lot is true. I don't think they'll make a lot of money because the rates that you earn on lecture city is tiny. But if they, I think it is worth emphasizing that, for instance, if they were doing cooking, which will be a much greater use and demand on the energy and would work in summer as well, it might be a much more practical project. I think the project that worries me is that even if they're doing properly and they have low energy writing, they really would probably be using quite a small proportion of the energy produced on church roof, which is after all quite a large, would be quite a large area, you think, the site of a church. Question, Siobhan, don't know if she knows quite a lot of church, especially these old district churches are illuminated at night to show off the building. Is this such a building? I mean taking John's comments about the fact that there can be some fairly new upgraded LED or efficient lighting for outside, which would then facilitate the fact that it is being produced during the day and being used at night to actually show off the building, rather than using the grid to do it. So I don't know if that floats your boat, John. No, of course it's a long time at the day, isn't it? I mean you could offset it, you could say, you know, the electricity that was being produced during the day could offset the cost of the electricity being consumed at night. But I take up Martin's point. I mean, you know, this could be linked to a facility in the village, for example, or provide, you know, going to offset consumption of electricity by something else like, for example, maybe, I know they've got their hub, which so it's a bit difficult actually to link it to the village hall, for example, but you could perhaps link it to some other project in Gamlingay, so that you offset the electricity that's being consumed there. But as I say, it's so uninspiring that I don't think, you know, it isn't the right place for it, I don't think. Clare First and Martin. Yeah, so can I also come back again to the wider point, because I do think that the officers or members together need to think about helping churches as listed buildings and where they will can remain possibly as places of worship and as community hubs and they might need help with energy efficiency. And I think, you know, we are going to get more of the we've already had several in the short time that this zero carbon grant has been going. So I think it would really be helpful to have a little package of information for churches. You're talking specifically for churches. Sorry, I am because they're particular kinds of building and they play a particularly important role in many of the communities, even for people who don't go to the church. You know, the building itself, the architecture itself as well as what goes on inside. Is that durable, Siobhan? Yes, absolutely. And if I can just take this off to say thank you for all those comments I've been writing down, I think that's very helpful and I take your point of when I'm sure we can communicate that to the applicants. I think if I kind of can explain, I think where they're coming from, their roof is being replaced anyway and they did see it as an opportunity. But I absolutely take your point that it's very little use for the electricity for at least the next five years until then again new heating system and possibly further. So, yeah, but we will put together some information for churches and the other thing that comes to mind is actually that bespoke energy surveys, well, bespoke energy surveys, energy surveys is really what I mean. It may be worth us helping churches with those. Okay, good idea. Marty. I would just emphasise they didn't proposals, the battery element is actually very important. The and in this case, this sort of use, you probably want battery elements lasting sufficient for several days not just for one. I mean to give you an example. I've just had a solar system installed under the county scheme and there is a factor two days ago. I think we produced 0.3 kilowatt hours in the whole day. The following day we produced nearly 10. That's the sort of difference in production you get over the winter period and you really do need quite a large storage to be able to be secure of having a decent contribution in the winter period. Thank you, Marty. Okay, members then I think what we've heard from the member for finance for this issue forms case and what the questions that have been asked here today. Would I be right in saying that we're going to reject this on those grounds? Sadly, sadly reject, I think. And I think if we could use the word sadly. I'm sure we can do that here, but I'm sorry. Just a quick question. So we've agreed this extra piece of criteria to help churches with future applications. Is that to be brought back to committee for approval? Or yes, you want your bones got a hand up. We'll bring back proposals for small revisions to the to the scheme in any case. And we'll take this into good. We'll include this in those. I would suggest. Thank you very much that that in that case then that's that's carried as a rejection. Thank you. Right. Is that what about rolling rolling forward there? Yeah. Roll it forward. Roll it forward members. Pete. Yeah. Yeah, that's that. That's a yes, John. Thank you. And I would just say that I understand from accounts yesterday that the way they do this is they create a reserve. So it's a slightly different procedure to the rollover procedure, but if you're happy for accounts to do it in the in the in the most effective way. Great. Can we have the 10% interest rate attached to that one for us for this particular committee? Thank you. If you can push it to 11, that'd be great. Okay. Agenda rights on number six. I believe I'm moving on to that. Sorry. Can I just ask a general question about as I said this year while Cobham got so it would be really good to do something to get more parish councils to apply because you know, I think a bit of push to get them to apply. I don't know what we can do about that, but I do. I do think this is a bit like the pool of water where you lead the donkey, right? And you asked the donkey, would you like to drink and the donkey says, do you know what I can't be bothered? I've got a bottle of water on my hip. So I think really this council tries blaminard, right? And I don't know how much more it's going to do rather than send officers out to parish council meetings and say, fill the form in now, right? And here's an idea for you to use. I mean, other than that, I mean, these are people that these are grown ups. They should better do it themselves. I really don't. I'm trying to be very polite here, but you know, as I say, lead the horse. Okay. Um agenda rights on number six, then please. Who's leading on this one? Is it Vicky again? Come back with me. Sorry. Yes, I'm here. Um over to you then. Thanks. Okay. Um community chest funding applications. Only three. Um this this month. The first one comes from Cottenham. I'm just getting my notes up. Cottenham Colts Football Club. Um. They are well established and long running football club with over 300 members. An integral part of the community supporting activity for children and social inclusion, volunteers, parents and families involved. The group have recently seen an increase in their membership. Um, so they would like to purchase a pair of new movable goals for one of their teams. Um. The total cost of the project is 3000 and 24 pounds. They're looking for 1000 pounds from community chest and they will be meeting the shortfall via co-op community funding. Um a Fennage Association grant, both of which are waiting on their pending decisions for those, but they have said that they will meet any shortfall with their club funds. Um, so, you know, regardless of whether they get those grants they will still have funds available to support that. Um district councillor support, both councillor Wilson and councillor Goff support the project. The parish council support the project in principle, but unfortunately did not have any funds available to offer them financial help. So that is Cottenham United Colts Football Club. Thank you, Vicky. Anybody going to make a comment or be in agreement? We will agree. That's an agreement. Thank you very much. Lovely. Thank you. Um, next one comes from great chisel bell ringers. And they are a community group. Um, they were first established in 1998 and currently have 18 members. They ring the bells of St Swithens Church in great chisel and have practised in teaching sessions once a week. Um ring the bells obviously before weddings and national events. They would like to increase their membership and recruit new and teach new ringers. Um, but unfortunately their bells are in need of much refurbishment. Um, they say that initially their bells fell into disrepair in 1979. And they refurbished them on a shoestring. So to speak in 1999, just so they could ring them for the millennium, but they have been ringing them ever since. But the bells do require attention. Now the group have been fundraising since sort of 1998-99. Um, and they have raised a total of 50,500 pounds through fundraising, other grants, and also they've had a new bell donated to them. Um, so the total project is to renovate the five existing bells and install a sixth bell. Um, although there's still a shortfall of their project, they do require a total of 91,700 pounds to complete the project. Um, the Essex Association of Chargeringers have encouraged them to commence the refurbishment. They feel quite strongly that they'll secure other funding from other organisations. Um, the group issued a statement about their funding. Um, the group recognised that the project costs are considerable sum of money for a small community to raise, but I have said that since being assured by the Essex Association of Chargeringers and Whites of Appletooth and Limited, which are the bell hanging company, that they're 35,000, which they've raised from fundraising, plus secured grants, put them in a strong position. Um, and there are several grant giving bodies who specialise in funding bell projects, so they've got applications with those, um, those other bodies. They also state that the church as a listed building, the parochial church council should be able to reclaim any VAT. They have initial pledged to meet the cost of a sixth bell from a local benefactor. And I've detailed in the appendix the costs and also the fundraising that they've done to date. So the builders will cost 30,000. The bell hangers 58,700 and engineers 3,000. So a project cost totals of 91,700. Fund raising stands to date at 35,600 and grants another funding secured. Um, they've got 400 pounds from the Sharp Trust, 3000 from the Baron Trust, 9,000 from the Essex Association of Chargeringers, 2,000 from a group called EPRL, which I failed to find out what that acronym stands for. 500 pounds from Stansted Airport and a sixth bell cost in almost 8,000 has been donated. Um, the group have asked parish council if they're able to offer support, but unfortunately, although being very enthusiastic about the project, um, I'm not able to donate any funds. They are applying for further grants, as I said, but for remaining funds, they are seeking local sponsorship from local companies and any shortfall will be underwritten at least in the short term by loans from their members. Um, I did ask the question why obviously the PC parochial church council weren't able to help and they said, um, that the church has historically always been a separate financial entity from the bells, although all bill, all bills go through the PCC to claim back VAT and gift aid where possible. The PCC has confirmed that due to other project commitments, they are not able to give financial support. The church of England, which is the governing body supports the project and has granted their permission to have the work done, but they are not able to offer funding either. So that is the great chisel bell ringers. So can I just ask with the 91,700 is pre or post VAT? I think that would be post VAT. So you could take 20% off that. Yeah, which is a significant, but a thousand pounds drop in the ocean seems to me. And I'm not sure whether it's good use of our fairly limited resources in that situation much as I would welcome another church that rings its bell regularly. I'm very ambivalent about it. Right, Peter, then Martin, then Claire. Thanks. Yeah, I'm just trying to understand Sue's reservations. I'm just trying to think about our consistency. We have supported, you know, church clocks and other things because they're very much community orientated for things like remembrance day and certain things. And so although this is a small part of the total that they've got to find, it seems they have worked pretty hard, including, you know, 7,900 from one person who's donated. So I think, but I'll be open to discussions with others that we would be consistent if we supported it. I'm other to same view as Peter. I believe the castle McDonald. I think the seems to me that they've done a lot of work to prepare for it. They've got a very consistent, they've got a lot of support from other sources. It's a large sum, but the fact of having a thousand pounds support from the district council will be beneficial when they're applying for other other grants because it will show that there's been support. It seems to be there. An enthusiastic group public doing something which is there, which is their joy and which provides joy to other people at some distance from the church because they're in the bells. And so I would thought it's a worthwhile course. I'm not so worried about the fact that it's a small drop in the ocean in terms of thing. It's a sign that it sends a message that it sends. I think it's important. Thank you. Yeah. So for me, the two things. One is the consistency as Peter said, I think we should be consistent in what we offer to churches, but then I've got a query and the money from for the sixth bell. This is an additional bell. Is that what you're saying? It's a pity that that seven almost eight thousand couldn't go to repairing the other bells. I mean that does seem odd to me really, you know that the benefactor wants a bell all to himself or herself. But yeah, I think, I think the sixth bell was sort of part of the whole project of making the bells sound better in unison. There was something which I should have put in the appendix that said it adds to the acoustics of the whole ringing. For the ring it needed to be. Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. Then I suppose I would like to support this, but I think I take the point about a thousand pounds being a drop in the ocean, but also Martin's point about having the support of the district council. But again, it comes back to being consistent about the money that we provide for churches and why we're doing it. And I think we probably need a little note about that so that we're very clear that we are consistent when we get applications for bells or clocks or whatever. Thank you, Clare John. Yeah, thank you. I like the point about many people can hear the ringing. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad given that the bells are in a bad way at the moment and maybe it's blackmail. If you don't give us the money, they'll still ring. Badly. The point I want to make and I've made before when we've had these projects, which are, which obviously are going to take time to come to fruition because it requires a lot of money being gathered from places in that when if we give if we give money now, it will tie up that thousand pounds. And you know, until well until the end of this financial year when we will then expect them to have spent it. So, and they're obviously not going to be doing that. So I wonder whether and I think we've done that in the past where we just send send them a confirmation that we would that we will support them as and the money is needed because otherwise we're taking a thousand pounds out of our pot of money, which we could be giving to somebody else. Yeah, I did ask that question of them because obviously I said you're still quite a bit short and the group have said in and it's in the appendix that they plan to start in February twenty two. So they're kind of all set to go and using money from although they're short, they're using money from their members to meet that shortfall at the moment. So that the works are planned for February twenty two. So OK, OK, so that's that's OK. That answers that question. Some very rich people living in Christmas. I'll bear that in mind. Pete Peter, I can I can donate set of earplugs to council Williams if he's worried about the noise. I can hear the bells in Wittlesford just about. Yeah, I'm assuming they want to start in February because the Jubilee in June. So they they have to crack on with it. Otherwise they there is a plan. I understand across the country on that weekend for special bell bell ringing. I'm not I'm not a bell ringing expert. Clare. Actually, thank you, Peter. That reminds me to ask so at the parish council meeting on Wednesday and I was asked if Southcams was going to be making any funds available for the Jubilee rather as we've done for the anniversary of the war. That's a good question. I'm looking at the leaf member for finance at the moment. I don't know. It will take away and discussing cabinet Peter. Yeah, I think it's not been discussed so far personally. I think we should, especially if we have funds available to roll forward into the fund. But obviously there has to be a decision, you know, in cabinet and then for the council as a whole. It would be worth in the meantime if then and the officers can do a quick scout around other authorities and what they're planning to do or not do. I think that's the case of the officer class and the cabinet class on that one then. We'll leave those leave those decisions to you and you can tell us what we're doing afterwards. That's great. So on the basis initially got something else to say on this clear on the basis of this particular application, given the fact that John's face was happier when you found out it was February 22 that they're going to be starting the work. Are we minded? One way or the other support or not support? So that's a support here, John from all of us. If you're okay with that one. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And finally, an application from all well carpet bowls club and a club that's been in existence since October 2004 and they currently have 24 members. So bowling as we know provides exercise and social interaction for everyone who participates and membership to the club is available to all residents of all and surrounding villages. Excuse me. They wish to purchase a two map wind up storage handing handling unit and they say that the maps that they use are very heavy and difficult for some members to handle carry and roll. So purchase of this unit will avoid anyone being injured whilst handling the maps and allow safe storage of them. The group have applied for other funding and they've applied for 200 pounds from the parish council. It says in the appendix that the decision is pending. However, they since got back to me. I got an email from the group yesterday and they have been awarded that money and also the rugby benevolent fund. They initially applied for 200 pounds from them, but they have advised me that actually they awarded them 500 pounds in which they weren't expecting. So initially, although they were asking us for 492 pounds 95 towards the project, they actually only need. 152 that should say 95 152 95 to meet the short fall. So quite a small sum of money just for the purchase of these maps. They've done quite well with their other grant funding. Councillor van der Weyer has emailed and is in support of the application and obviously the parish councillor because they've given them some financial support towards it. So that is the coffee bowls club. Thank you, Becky. I'm looking round the room and I'm just thinking for 152 pounds 95 P. It kind of does fit our criteria somewhat. So to save injury, should we owe that as an approval? That's another one. Thank you very much. You've got a hundred percent record at the moment. Lovely. Thank you. Well, that's me done. On that note, on that note, I think I speak for all of us to say thank you very much indeed for your your work and your delivery for us and during the committee, we'll have you in the depth of detail. So that's really, really lovely. And that Cecilia has got a hard act to follow. We will demand from Cecilia the same level of input. And she's coming online now. We'll see. I know Cecilia. She only lives down the road for me. So we often meet for a couple. So she'll take the mickey out of me now afterwards. So it's good. All right. So thank you. Thank you. I'm really grateful for that. Thank you. It's a pleasure. And that brings me to the unless there's any other questions from members that brings me John. Yeah. Yes. I am the next day to next meeting. I've got it in my diet for 2 p.m. But I see on the paper it's 10. Can you just confirm what time it is? Yes. Originally this could be a problem for me. Yes. Sorry. I'm not here on that cloud. Catherine Cecilia Vicky. What what business we have on this particular day? We have two things very likely. One will be any community chest grants that come in between now and then although those could be held over. The other thing though is the Children and Young People's Grant which is coming and Leslie's bringing that to you. So we we really would like there to be a meeting. And should we work in hard to bring that paper to you by the 17th so that people can be told before Christmas? Thank you chair. I just to add another bit into this. One thing I was going to raise is that there is a planning inquiry that has been requested to be held at South Camps Hall in January and that would go over when we usually host grants advisory committee. So the likelihood is that we will either need to move venue or cancel January grants advisory committee. So I would say if we could hold the December meeting that would be best. Right. So is there is there any opportunity to come a fraction earlier in that day? Don't make any difference to you. Is it my my other meeting starts at nine goes through to 11. So it would be difficult. I don't if this helps anybody else I can do the 15th of December but not the 17th. I think the challenge there would for us would just be and make sure we have enough time to get the paper on the grants. We could do our best if the 15th works. The time is very tight anyway with the number of days available to write the paper up and get something like 48 hour turnaround. That's fine. 15th is JDCC and that's an in-person meeting in the Bilt Hall in Cambridge. So if we have to be here in person, we'd have to be very early start while we meet at Cambridge. Okay. What about the 18th? Let's do some overtime. Yeah. Pass that one there. Right. Okay. Well, look, we. I think a lot of us have got other commitments that day which are starting to rack up on us. I suppose the obvious thing is to stay with the 17th. Is there any? Is that you said it was difficult for officers on that day? Well, I know that Leslie is due to present the Children Young People's report and I know that it will provide her difficulties to do it before 10am. Yeah. 10am is a good time to start but I appreciate the councillors can't make that. I can't make that. Can we not do it? Can we not do it too? No, I can't make it at all. Regardless, we will be two members down in the sense that Peter is unavailable on Friday the 17th and either councillor Hales or councillor Ellington will be unavailable. We are obviously still quarreled with three members and I'm actually just roping in councillor Cahn at this point in time as well to potentially see if we can get a sub for one of the others because we could proceed with the meeting. Um, could I ask about the 15th? But Catherine, were you saying that's too short notice? Yeah, we need to have some. We need to have a week clear, Aaron, if you could confirm for me. We need to have a week clear to publish the paper. Correct. So if we held it on the 15th, the papers would need to be published by Tuesday 7th of December. That would be the deadline for publication. Yeah and and and if the paper came to me to look at before it was published, I've got parish council meeting on the Monday. So, you know, I wouldn't be able to look at it really before it was published. So what we're really looking at then. I mean, you're are you available to clear at 2 o'clock? Yeah. Right. There's making it very painful. Yeah. I think to make this as easy as we can for officers. I think we need to probably be there for the 2 o'clock. Is that 2 o'clock on the 17th? Yeah. So that gives you the time that you require for officers. You know, John gives him the time to read the paper and that way around. I'll have to give my apologies now and I'll hand this out to see if that's okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But then obviously Pete won't be here, but Claire can be and then we'll still talk. I'm presumably Bill Cumbie, but we need to chat with Bill, wouldn't you? Yeah. All right. So at the moment we have a cunning plan, but I mean, who knows what happens daily with people having to isolate. So I mean, that might be the other thing that you have to isolate. You have to isolate. Okay. In that case then it's the 17th of December at 2 o'clock at the moment. All right. So, um, thank you once again. Thank you Vicky for the lifetime. I might have you and officers John and thank you members and that concludes today's grant advisory committee meeting. Thanks.