 I'm going to start right now. It's important to begin. Let me introduce to you, we have in this panel Ana Jiroz, who is the CIO of Europe, for Europe and Latin America for the Swiss. Ricardo Melendez Ortiz, he is the CIO of the International Center for Trained and Sustainable Development. Mr. Carlos Represas, he is the chairman for Latin America of Switzerland amongst many other important positions that he has occupied and he will join us soon. Mr. Luis Gilberto Murillo, he's the minister of the environment of Colombia. I am Leo Schlesinger. Today I am the leader of Aliette Universities, a group of higher education in Mexico and until not long ago I was leading Macy's at the Latin American Company of Natural Resources and I was chairman of the Global Agenda Council of Natural Capital and Yango Validor. We have heard a lot about climate change as the problem or the greatest challenge of our era and probably it's truth. It is clear that today in terms of the environment we have huge challenges and probably we are going on the very dangerous track. I would say climate change is just one of the subjects of the topics but as we see there is a great huge degradation of our ecosystems. We have lost in the planet a great amount of biodiversity and tropical first mass. We are plasticifying the oceans and not to talk about water and water abuse, abuses regarding that resource. So this is a consequence of not understanding the limits, limitations of our planet in terms of how much it can produce and how much can we really use in our productive processes of what the planet is able to regenerate if we think in our planet and the environment as a checking account in a bank. In order to be sustainable we should think we'll live out of the interest produced by this account. Today studies such as the Global Footprint Network and the World Business Council for Sustainable Development tell us that today if the planet produces 100, if our oceans are able to reproduce an X amount of fishes and the trees and the forest may reproduce themselves in an X amount and well today out of this 100 we are using 130 so we are far beyond the limits we are using 30 percent more of what the planet is able to regenerate in one year. If we go to 2025 the calculations are that we are going to be occupying 80 percent more and if we go to 1050 it is thought or calculated that we are going to be occupying more than 2.3 times more that what the planet is able to regenerate and the model in which we are basing ourselves is the model of the United States that if we would consume and produce in the same way of they produce and consume in USA we would need five planets so the model does not sustain it is clear the limits that the planet has climate change today is a reality and many can tell us no it's not so and they're also in the media a lot being said about the reality of climate change but today it is not to be discussed climate change is real we are experiencing this is the hottest year in historical records we cannot deny either that climate change is being produced by the direct influence of the human beings actions that we are issuing that we are sending out to the air greenhouse effect gases and CO2 as well and that we are experiencing the effects of climate change today the COP 21 has been called it's an agreement without ever had been that or taking place in the history it is banding for those who have signed it 185 countries out of 195 signed it and one of the main elements that this is aiming at is to limit the temperature increases only two degrees with the base of pre-industry levels of 1750 and on and it forces us those who have signed the agreement to reduce the greenhouse effects gases and also it includes mitigation actions and it's assumes that many of the climate change effects are unavoidable but we were talking a minute ago with Carlos welcome Mr. Minister thank you that climate change is already here and we have to be very much aware of that and how to mitigate it and it also the COP contemplates about the real existing relationship between the actions of adaptation and mitigation with the impact amongst the poorest because understanding that they are the ones who will be suffering most and for that reason it also determines a fund and we hope that this does happen by 2020 of 100 billion dollars for these type of actions and today's panel will really we are going to work and talk about two main topics two questions that will give us a lot of subject to talk about the first one is what things are we doing from the different organizations here we have an interesting representation of that from the private sector the public sector think times academy and what is it what is being done from each sector to comply with these agreements and to mitigate climate changes and the second question has to do with well we are in the COP 21 there are 20 before and agreements and Kyoto and all sorts of agreements that have not given the expected results why is this time different or not and understanding a little bit what are the barriers that make this to be so I like to start with my right side with Anna and please to the first question will you give us an answer good afternoon the first question I would start with context elements COP 21 and I am representing Swiss which is one of the big companies that have to do with the environment and by most we saw it maybe on an exceptional basis not because it is in Paris and we are in Paris because it was the first time where we really felt that it was not a meeting amongst governments and something just pertaining to the authorities or the countries there we felt that commitments were delivered from the industry companies and there was an also participation of the civilian society and a lot of modifications and discussions civilian society around all these subjects and with this there was an awareness it is a problem of all of us and we have to build solutions and that somehow the subject of environmental impact and the main actions in the planet are thus producing a non-sustainable impact no one can question that so that is the context of COP 21 so we're going to have this momentum will it last will it not last it will be a matter of the second subject what Swiss is doing and we are quite prepresentatives of the industries two things one we are working with our carbon free footprint and working on solutions at the level of reuse of water energy subjects recycling from all our products so we are indeed working and reducing our emissions and we are also innovating in economy to propose our customers and our customers in the public environment as well as in the industry environment providing solutions to improve the footprint at the recycling level as well as concrete themes of reuse of water because water was at the COP 21 for the first time the hydric stress was put into a roadmap of the climate so maybe in only a couple of examples talking about solutions because there are solutions so we have an agreement with UNESCO for the treatment of ocean pollution plastics in the oceans we are working on recycling plastic recycling solutions on earth because the problem of the ocean comes from the earth not from the ocean and we are trying to do things of monitoring and remediation in the water more concrete subjects in Latin America as a good example we are working on reuse in Mexico we have many examples of water reuse processes in the industry water reuse in the cities for irrigation to reincorporate it in the napest and without water reuse we work in brazil and non-revenue water those are the losses and the canalizations in the city and subjects that could not cannot lose 50 percent of water clean water in the city it is something that now everyone is aware of and we have a rather nice dialogue because we are not just selling products and the people don't understand why we are pushing these products forward but there is a demand that grows increasingly mr minister thank you i would like to mention first of all that and even more for information in the case of Colombia and it might be the case also of many of the countries in the region the awareness about the need to take precise actions to that allow us to have mitigation and adaptation to the climate changes have grown a lot and in the case of Colombia it has grown because we come from events that do have to do with climate variability that have been quite painful for the country and for example El Nino and La Nina phenomenon the people have felt closer the effects that these challenges may have in the global context and the government and the Colombian society as such have been taking important measures of public policies they've issued several documents where they really defined the route map that the country is going to follow in terms of adaptation and likewise mitigation in climate changes so the country has a very interesting tool which is the fund of adaptation to climate changes that is in operation and it was in response to this phenomena of climate variability but beyond that amongst the many tools that have been created there is one that I would like to highlight it is a law draft that was issued in this year that establishes the national system for climate change and in this with this tool we create a very important commission it is the Intersectors Commission to respond to the challenges of climate change this commission is led by the Ministry of the Environment and Sustainable Development and the National Planning Department well it guides us and gives us the guidelines with regards to what we should implement one very important decision made by the country was the precisely the definition of its quota of decreasing emissions within the global context we have a level of vision which is very small 0.46 but the effects of climate change are really out of proportions in the country and that is why we define that 20 and 30 having as a basis the year 2010 about 2030 we're going to have a percentage of emissions reduction of 20% and if we count on the international cooperation we may even reach 30% and at the study carried out at the University of Los Andes that supported us we wanted those measures that are going to be implemented should not go beyond or more the cost of $20 per ton but we have huge challenges we have to define a more real policy in terms of mitigation and adaptation to climate changes that does reflect the commitments that we have acquired within the framework of Paris agreement and we are going to issue this policy this year but besides that we're going to create a general framework which is the general law of mitigation and adaptation to climate changes that is also going to be subject to the consideration of the congress at the end of this year so I would stop here but there are many many measures that we are implementing in the country sectorial agreements or agreements with the private sector financial tools because it is precisely the development framework that we would like to apply has to do with what we have defined of advances or progress made in the country to respond to the challenges of climate change thank you thank you Leo well there is no doubt that as you said during the introduction the subject of climate change will define indeed the viability of our economies my own perspective is really to introduce Latin America in the global markets and how this introduction and the dependency of Latin America from the global markets has or somehow it will be defined according to the policies and actions taken by the countries with regards to climate change so I would say to concentrate in three points that I think are important one is the subject of energy supply energy supply and the energy matrix of our countries the energy we know already has between 70 and 80 percent is responsible for the greenhouse effect gases emission and the Paris decisions Paris decisions so as they are now when take us up to 2 percent to stabilize two degrees of stabilization of the climate but maybe so as we are we will be between 2.7 and 3 degrees so it is not sustainable as you were saying a while ago we also know that it is going to be necessary for at least 60 percent of energy production should be clean energy for 20 or 30 or if we want to reach the goals of 20 to 50 that have been established in Paris this is a huge effort maybe the most important point here that I would like to highlight is that we what we are talking about in Paris is a transformation absolutely basic of our most importance of the production models as well as consumption models in the global economy it is also very important to understand that the actions that we may take today have consequences at mid and long term even long term especially when it has to do with climate looking at the energy matrix the highest risk in the region as well as in other regions is for us to be tied up in structures energy structures that at long term are going to generate huge problems in terms of sustainability and gases mitigation Colombia as minister Murillo said it's just gone through a tough month because of El Nino effects it knew what is to depend about high hydrology power sources and false high a lot of fuels in terms of energy energy generation today we have responses answers in terms of clean energy clean energy continues to be in Latin America not very much the supply but it is growing at a great speed by 2014 the region in terms of and sun energy is about 40 percent and in no sorry sun energy almost 400 percent and in aolic energy 40 percent or something like that so there is a big room president Mackey said it this morning and president Santos also said it but we need strategies and policies that are focused on on stimulating and encouraging clean energy generation this happens and going back to the global economy starts with reviewing the trade and investment frameworks and how they affect the supply of intermediate and capital goods that are necessary for clean energy generation and there we have big problems beginning with customs rates and clean energy technologies and services all sorts of variants and obstacles and energy and fiscal and macro policies regional policies that do not encourage or discourage the investment in clean energy so there is an important agenda for the region the other one has to do that it is linked to the links between water and energy land use forest and climate change indeed this morning there was a session where martin for hinder brand who's been studying the coloman amazon's region was mentioning the need to work in what he calls the corridor which is the andis the amazon region and the atlantic ocean it provides water including irrigation through all four agricultural purposes in many countries of the continent and once again there it is necessary to understand the pressures in terms of the agriculture production mining production exploration of resources and fossil fuels and human about the land and about water and to have a very clear strategies that that we should be able to adapt what's important is that everything is going to be pretty immediate the paris agreement offers a series of instruments which are very interesting in order to support these countries with regards to that type of strategy and one that i'm particularly interested in have been promoted it for some years is to establish a price for coal through coal markets the region in general colombia in particular has a great capital that it can offer in this area but it's very important to organize these coal markets this is being done in mexico this is being done in colombia the minister is part of this climate strategy but we need to think beyond this for instance so we need to link different coal markets there is an experience between california and quebeca and in switzerland and now there's some conversations going on between the europeans and korea and the europeans and china china is going to establish a domestic carbon market by 2017 and this could change from a global perspective it could change the viability of coal markets once again in the region it would be very important to work with a trade agreement for instance the pacific alliance and others and we must work through these channels in order to establish coal price because it is through these international channels that will be able to mitigate volatility and the problems that would generate it if some countries adapt their prices and some don't the main part of the paris agreement is that countries should take on these obligations or contributions which will be determined at a domestic level in a symmetric manner so that there will be an appropriate ambience for competitiveness and for in order for the appropriate prices to be put in place so we need to think about what would be the strategies at a global level in order to try and mitigate disruptive possibilities that can come up if we don't establish this price for coal and then we need to think about coal which is incorporated into goods and services this is a new topic we're just beginning to study this topic perhaps the europeans have made more progress in this and other countries but we should know which is the net import expert of coal in different countries when one understands what is the carbon and imported goods so one understands that the composition is very different from the one that we're acquainted with especially we think about the production sources such as coal emissions so once we think about this we have to start working on policies that will be oriented towards mitigating carbon in in consumption and this is going to be very important in terms of the management of this topic this is a very important topic globally because we need to work to harmonize the different policies so there won't be price discrepancies in the international markets yes of course my answer my direct answer to your question would be will things be different this time around and why will it be different well partly because of what minister murillo was saying a while ago i think awareness has been gained about the problem and this this is going to create a different reaction towards the commitments that were taken on by cup 21 not all countries accepted them but anyway there are some commitments in the past i think we have to deal with this in a different way because we are gaining more and more awareness of the fact that we are the last generation that can do something in this regard so this awareness for me is of great value because it leads us to action we need to act part of this problem that we are facing has to do with population growth of course this is inevitable and as many other people who are here no doubt i am part of the only generation in the history of humanity which during their lifetime the world population grew by three times this had never happened before population going up by three times and in the future this will not happen again because this is simply not sustainable because the the world cannot sustain population growth as such is that we're talking about two to two point five billion and population and we will be talking about seven or seven and a half billion so this means that we have to continue to gain awareness this is pertinent to what minister murillo was saying as a mexican citizen as a latin american citizen i'm very proud of the role of that latin america played in paris i think the different countries in latin america made a great contribution they supported the commitment that was set in paris and i think the role we played as a region was was exceptional was very good so we should be proud of that no doubt that the number of actions and efforts that we need to start are very significant i think that ricardo just summarized very holistically for us what it is that we need to do we need to work on this problem so as to achieve our objectives you were talking about two degrees celsius or one and a half as a goal not as an objective and i think we need to move this forward i think the businesses individuals our academia our education with childhood will push us in this direction and i think the role that i represent in this panel is the following so what my question is is all this enough um having done what we said we're going to do have we achieve what we want to achieve so hence my concern about the fact that we will not be able to prevent many of the problems that are already here that are affecting us are impacting us and will continue to affect and impact us and actually they're going to continue to grow so the question would be what should we do in order to confront or face up what will inevitably happen in spite of our efforts and i think the effort is not only worthwhile it is mandatory that we display such efforts so for me there is an enormous responsibility at a government level but also there's responsibility on society as a whole to protect society and to make sure that they will be able to deal with natural disasters that will come our way so we all hope and we think that they might be lesser catastrophes insofar as we improve the work that we're doing with the environment but they will come you can be sure that these natural disasters will come because we're paying for what we have done poorly in the past so it is once again very important to become more aware of our environmental problems and to come up with a way to become resilient vis a vis these natural disasters we must be able to come up with action so that we can deal with the immediate consequences of the disasters that will probably be coming our way and given the risks that are ahead of us we will start to give value to those things that we are not doing in other words if you find if you buy insurance for a particular thing you're giving value to that thing so we begin we must begin to understand what it is that we're not doing right so not only are we going to have to face up to the responsibility of redoing whatever gets destroyed after natural disaster but on top of this we have to accept that that value that weight that difficulty so if you don't do this what is the price that you're going to have to pay if you do not take action now what will happen in the future so there's going to be a sort of a premium that you will have to pay because socially you will be granting value to those things which you are not doing and in addition to this from the point of view of rating agencies which are very important for the different countries is that the fact that you are protected from disasters will actually improve your credit rating and it will improve it not only domestically but also at an international level so it's very important to have an active participation of the insurance world on the part of my company Swiss Rare we have been increasing our risk coverage by 10 billion dollars precisely because we're aware of the risk we know that the risk is there and because we're aware of the fact that we have to make an effort and become a more aware of the impact of a disaster because as long as we don't know what that impact is we are not doing the necessary things to prevent those disasters so why why will things work this time because we've done many things but not everything has been done so in a COP 21 there were other agreements the Kyoto agreement Paris agreement but many agreements have taken place and nothing has really happened to the environment I am I am very optimistic and there are two topics that we're dealing with here and there is no going back first of all we have all understood that we need to go from linear production to a circular economy and both with regards to recycling and power production and recycling of raw material well we know that plastics have to be recycled we can no longer continue to throw them into the ocean there's no going back on this a circular economy is a fact it is here to stay and another topic on which we cannot go back is the increase of that social awareness that we need to have that awareness of the industry that things cannot go on the way they've been going on and we need to feed into all these topics in other words we need to create a moment and a space and then we need to thrust it forward and if there are certain contributions that need to be made as well are those contributions with an illegal framework the legislative framework of the different countries has to evolve a practical example for instance in France we have reinjection of biogas in water treatment plants and in the biomass plants biogas is being created but up until 2014 this biogas could not be re-injected into the network so you didn't really know what to do with biogas it was nice as a concept but then the legislation changed and now we're re-injecting biogas in many of the french cities and this is a very circular way to use their resources that come out from a water treatment plant it's a way to use organic or agricultural biomass that come out of the dumping grounds so we need to work on this this has to evolve we're pushing this forward at different levels and then we need to also work with the different businesses we need to innovate at an industrial level because to just think about nine billion people in a planet is simply catastrophic so we need to innovate we need we need to innovate and we need to be ready because if this happens it's going to be a huge problem we're going to open the discussion now for the panel members and to the audience because clearly we see that there are serious of interest related to the environment in the economic arena there is conflict of interest there are subsidies there are lobbyists and there are all sorts of elements that have made this topic a hard one to deal with there is a media war against or for climate change so what can we do how do we tackle this even if we have 185 signatures out of 195 participants in a cup but who will guarantee that these forces that are working together what will they do because things that they've done have really not worked up to now but now they're beginning to work I think that you are actually hitting the bullseye you have said why is this possible now and before it was not we do not know if it's possible but we know that what was done in Paris was to sign a universal agreement with one binding agreement and that is to stabilize the climate at two degrees that's it that's it the rest is just about voluntary contributions and in a sovereign manner each country will offer an option but with a transparent mechanism follow-up mechanism or technical mechanism or an accreditation mechanism all these mechanisms will finally guarantee that these contributions will take us to that objective of two degrees but there there is vulnerability in this agreement because it is not a legal framework as the previous ones one this is one of the reasons why it did not work in the past it is much harder to make countries agrees through binding agreements on a particular action now the other part of which has generated a great deal of enthusiasm is the proclamation of which in English is called a bottom up in terms of contributions where different businesses participate the city's national governments participate and all other players that in one way or another are committed to work for or against climate change this is an experiment at an international level this is what the Paris agreement was this is an experiment on a topic which is absolutely vital we must not fool ourselves in 2020 we will really know if we have reached an agreement that will take us where we need to go and this takes us to another point for 2020 the increase in emissions are going to be huge and we will be generating a great deal of tension between the governments the civil population who will be impacted because of the biophysical consequences of the climatic change such that it will be a different world so we will know if this agreement will be able to be maintained or if it will be necessary to go into a different kind of agreement that might be safer particularly at a legal level perhaps a security at an environmental security law this is what we might need and I think it's very important to place things within that context because the enthusiasm about Paris is very important so that we will go to 2020 where we shall be tested against something that should be totally viable but we are facing an agreement which is weak vulnerable and it's certainly not carved in stone in terms of what the international cooperation can achieve in terms of climate change I don't know what the minister will say because he was there so I want to say something in this regard I think that there are still voices that are detractors of this effort these are voices that are from the past in other words these changes will have always taken place this is the history of humanity because in the ice age this and that happened but at the end nothing happened in other words these detractors are looking to minimize the effects of climate change I think we need to make a greater information effort and definitely I think this is a role for international economic forum we the forum has been carrying out this job information sensitization awareness and we have to continue to do this job to to sensitize to be people to make sure people are more aware and to make sure we do not decrease the importance of the effort that we must carry out and also we need to be very aware of the costs for society these natural disasters that come one after the other what is the cost for society of these natural disasters we have a publication in Swiss red and we publish this every year we publish information about natural disasters the cost for society about this national disasters and how they're increasing every year and I think we have to continue to increase this awareness I think what Mr. Tapiz is saying is very true and here in Colombia we have made a great educational effort on the measures that we need to take on the cost that these measures imply now if we talk about the increase of awareness about the natural phenomena themselves I think there is a space for political priority which will be very important such that governments will do everything in their power so that this mechanism will indeed be able to work and we also need to establish what else is needed to make the necessary adjustments as they're needed in addition to raising awareness because now the community is feeling the effects of the phenomena much more because they're really being impacted by them so even if you can't explain the phenomena scientifically the population at large is feeling the effects of that phenomenon so new voices are coming up new voices are speaking up and in the countries in the different countries nowadays we see that there is much greater participation in political debates in Colombia is an example of course if you increase your resilience the strength of your ecosystems you will be able to better respond to these challenges and in the Colombian case many of our strategic ecosystems lie in areas which have traditionally been inhabited by indigenous communities or afro-americans and these populations are participating in the national debate more and more and they can greatly help so that a more specific treatment can be given to all these environmental measures and then of course we have a conflict between the environment and the mitigation of the effects of the human race on the planet so there might be there will be a need to respond to that conflict a conflict which is certainly arising around these problems we see this conflict is already present in many of our countries then we might need an additional tool to prevent that conflict and this would be part of that package you were mentioning that idea that we have to understand that this is a real phenomena which needs to be measured not only from an economic perspective but also from a political and social perspective i would like to open up the discussion to the audience we have time for questions or comments good afternoon i work in itaú my name is anna listado de mercado and i follow many utility companies and i still see that there is a great deal of conflict still we can talk about four months ago not to go any further we were on the edge of power rationing and at that moment at the mineral and power association came out saying that columbia needed to put more coal into its matrix well of course i opened up my eyes hugely and if you look at the mid-term plan for ube we see that there is a big coal chunk there because from an economic point of view the prices of power generation is still not big enough so the economics or the numbers still don't pan out let's go look at the example in germany where coal is being removed but of course we say well the government is putting money on the table so that everyone will be able to put on their house roofs a solar panel and well in columbia there's no way that the government is going to co-finance a solar panel for for each house to have one on top of their own roofs so what can we do to untangle the the wheel because as we're doing things there's nowhere we're going to be able to come up with a congruent plan this is a very current debate about the energy matrix say in columbia the country just to prove our law on renewables we're about to implement it and we're about to define a financial mechanism to make it more feasible and in the commission of energy reduction we're going to have to be more flexible about how we will establish the fees and instruments that will make it more viable for us to improve our power matrix um i think that the effort that we're displaying here and that we will continue to display has to do with the commitments of different sectors so that we will be able to meet our targets which are 20 percent references we haven't defined the contribution of each sector for instance the mining sector and the contribution of the public sector and the and the private sector so we really need to use the planning instruments that we have and which are based on the challenges that we have to adapt ourselves to climate change i'll give you an example economic planning in columbia 80 percent of the gdp is produced in an area where we only have a 20 impact and this is already an indicator to make decisions as to where the production will take place and on the other hand we also know that in some areas of the country because of the effects of climate change we will have a higher level of rain than in others and this is also another indicator to be able to do our energy or power planning and we're still learning to keep in mind these uh uh scenarios of climate variability in order to integrate them to our planning i think this is a change of our institutional culture as to how we make our decisions i'm optimistic uh in in terms of uh the fact that this discussion will take place with the ministry of mines and energies and we will be able to factor in all these uh possible scenarios for the long-term and mid-term development of our country i'm going to make a comment about this i do believe that the best way to motivate and to encourage to changes is by charging not being aware of what it costs not to do it and i want to use an example that i experienced myself with my friends in Swissry in the case of Uruguay just to take an example the production electric electricity production is via hydraulic means the idea that the people have in the country facing a potential draughtness what would be the cost for producing electricity well my cost for producing electricity is having to import fossil energy to be able to operate the hydroelectric the electric power generators what does it mean in terms of costs for me well we are going to have an insurance that covers in a parametric manner the difference that i have to spend in order to generate the same electricity that i need but i don't no longer have water and i have to bring it from fossil energy and that is a way to create awareness about the cost of not doing or doing something minister minister we have time for just one very fast question and this is to close and please very fast and short yes the minister was saying that columbia's contribution to the greenhouse effect gas effect gases when we look at china and india that have an increasing gigantic middle class and that do contribute to these greenhouse gases and much more having a mindset of development based on what you were saying as a moderator in the american model of consumption do you believe that the solution is to change that mindset of that increasing middle class in populations such as china and india or to simply being based on what we have and look for look for solutions in what we have in that consumption mind head of the middle class that goes beyond far beyond the one that we have in latin america one couple of elements i think is very important and it is changing the mindset is not a matter of just running the switch or changing switch i think the most important thing there is the market measures but also and obviously legislations regulations and the different legal frameworks that could lead to changes changes in behavior and on the other hand we have the subject of looking for all possible ways is not one or the other it is also the big investments that are being made in research and development and technology including even maybe it's interesting for the case of columbia in the future well like storing carbon that could be one of the solutions for the countries that still depend upon fossil fuels and as i was saying before in going back to the first sentence generation of carbon markets i think that the solution for the problems of chinese india usa and europe is really putting some price to carbon and to achieve it in sound markets that have frameworks and legislations that really support them and that it is what is going to lead us to changes in behavior and production models and changes in the business models and the last point there is that following what carlos was saying it is very important to understand mitigation gases mitigation or carbonization of as equivalent to mitigation of risks as the minister was saying what you are looking for is to mitigate the political and social and economic risk and in that sense it is not a matter of columbia issuing 0.46 or not is that all and once again when we are 2020 not now or 20 to 25 we will understand that if we do not go into the field of decarbonization the only thing that we are going to be doing is just increasing risks well thank you and this is just to close what i hear here from the whole panel and i'm surprised is all use the concept that we are experiencing a change of awareness everyone referred to it as something that it was the common of cot 21 so apparently there's a turning point where we are accepting that this as a society is a real and urgent problem and that has a risk that there is a cost of not doing it you were saying carlos that this is the last generation that can be that can do something about it and it is so real that it is a matter of concern especially for all those of us who have families you are also talking about a new awareness implicit in the economy it is a concept that says how what we produce we take from the environment it goes back to the environment and it stays there and is renewed this all these effects and these impacts are compounded multiplied by the population increase by 2050 are going to be in more than 9 000 million inhabitants this planet cannot withstand this model we talked about solutions and you said there are solutions there are technological solutions innovations financial tools and public policies markets that we can create we have to understand the value chains we have to put a price to carbon we have to generate market all the concepts of this economy but it is not only useful to prevent but we have to become aware of the fact that we are experiencing a critical situation and we have to take the measures to adapt ourselves and to mitigate there are still some other detractors every time less and less every time sounds more and more like naive i would say and probably there are no longer voices that come from the lack of credibility but they are deliberately come in come from created interests that try to maintain this tattoo cool and the whole thing has some cost if it were easy we've all would have done it it has it is going to have costs for the economies at short and medium term and it requires a political will a huge political will and in order for this to happen we all know what we have to do we know the solutions but it requires political will but it is implicit in your comment it is the way this is the last generation that can do something about it we don't have another planet and we don't have another planet for our children and grandchildren so let's do it thank you all excellent panel thank you