 And we're live. I'm Anthony dream Johnson CEO and co-founder of the red man group First president of the Manusphere CEO 21 studios and founder of the 21 convention today's episode one on nine of the red man group Civilization is overrated with special guest and author Jack Donovan who's been on the red man group before I think online once or twice As well as at the 21 convention and the red man group live hosted at the events Think couple times. Yeah, three times at least. He's been on the show there Jack is the author of the way of men as you see that Cult cult classic you can find on Amazon link in the description He's also the author of actually a lot of books second one after that was becoming a barbarian and One of his most recent books this came out. I think in late 2017 early 2018 more complete beast Which actually summarized into a speech. You can see the one viral on 21 studios of the same title more complete beast It's got about a hundred and five hundred ten thousand views something like that check it out Thays me fun show. So without further ado, welcome to the show Jack Donovan boom Thank you for the introduction mr. President. Yeah It's good to see you man. Good to talk to you. Yeah, man. Good to talk to you Yeah, so before we get into some of the questions and topics. I want to go through It's been a wild year. So how's it been for you at the way of men HQ out up in the Northwest What's going on there? I've been well, it's been pretty chill Man, I was planning to move to you know, like next year. I was planning to move to a bigger city And I'm rethinking that I've been Pretty lucky in the way that things have been out here. I mean, I live in a pretty small town so, you know, I've been going to restaurants and and you know for a while now and You know and you know, I've been self-employed. So that wasn't really a big deal and so You know, it's a it really hasn't been a big big problem And you know, nothing's people aren't burning down buildings in my town and and you know, there's plenty of man, I wish I could get a good picture of it. There's a Like a block away from me There's a guy with a Trump banner in his front yard that you know has Trump But as Rambo with a bazooka out front. Yeah, so like that's kind of the neighborhood I live in so, you know, it's it's I mean, I guess if Andy wanted to come up the hill They have to go through a whole bunch of grizzled old angry Marines who've been wanting to shoot a commie for like all their lives so Jesus, so it's pretty rural out there. Yeah, we see a lot of in your Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And people people can find Instagram. It's at start the world. I think it's the world Yeah, yeah, it's my major my major thing although I'm trying out that parlay thing. Oh, yeah Yeah, I'm down there and and that's I've been getting some Bunch of followers in there Yes, Sam, I just joined to and it's got a lot of engagement. I like it Yeah, yeah, it has promise, you know, if it doesn't turn into gab Promise, you know, yeah, I think I think it's got a good feature particularly like I think you said as well on your Instagram That it's got mainstream conservatives and stuff moving to it. Where's gab never really had that It was just like it was like Alex Jones and like Paul just have Watson and like that was that was like it. Yeah Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and this it has like Rand Paul and then everything like on yeah, yeah So just from my perspective this year, I thought a lot about your work throughout the year Particularly like for example, you know shit hitting the fans survivalist kind of stuff masculinity coming back into fashion very quickly a Lot of us, you know younger guys We saw this with girls hitting us up during the pandemic all of a sudden girls you hadn't heard from in six months or a year Are like hitting you up out of the blue In the theory the prevailing theories that they're just freaking out because things were you know kind of scary for them Right and then they knee jerk to you know finding masculine men But more recently for me, I wanted to tell you this you know live in the air watching the riots go down and all this stuff I feel like it's been watching a live-action movie of your book On TV every day, especially during the peak of it when it was really kicking off of the first like week or two Yeah, I was like wow, it's like it's like World War Z mixed with the way of men Everything it's like everything Jack has ever said is being vindicated like live on national TV With police precincts burning down people grouping up We're going into this a little bit with news articles, but you know We're seeing you know the Italians group up into a gang the Russians the Greeks like it's it's so It's so out of your book. It's it's funny if it wasn't you know business is burning down people dying But in a sense it's still funny though from a very distant kind of perspective Yeah, man, I mean it's it's You know the stuff I wrote is me figuring out the way the world actually works a Lot of it and that's right. It still works that way, you know And you know people lived in his fantasy where it didn't and you know There's an essay I wrote violence is golden and I'm trying to work out on a YouTube video of it right now and But you know, it was originally intended to be the beginning of the way of men and You know, it just basically talks about you know that why we need police And what happens if we don't have them and and the fact that even when you don't think that the world runs on violence It still does yeah, you know because You know, we people aren't being raped and murdered on an everyday basis, you know, like everywhere Because they're scared of the police hunting them down with guns. You know, you know, like it's it's not like we're at Like people have actually become more civilized. They're just scared You know, like they they realize they're gonna be consequences And You know, when you take that away, I mean, you know, I mean, I'm glad I don't live in the cities where they're gonna defund the police But like I'm kind of glad they are, you know, like go ahead go ahead and do it. You like see what happens, you know Jesus, yeah, like I see what happens because it's gonna be it's gonna be very instructive For a lot of people who have a lot of stupid ideas about how reality works. Yeah So let's talk about that because you say violence is golden But usually we don't hear that usually we hear silence is golden or violence is evil and bad and blah blah blah But I get what you're saying hundred percent there for the guys who are newer to your work Why is violence golden? Is it the final power? Is that kind of what you're saying at the end of the day? Yeah, I mean in the essay I say it's it's the gold standard. Yeah, it basically like when everything else Doesn't have any value If I punch you in the fucking face it has value You know like that that has universal value they in the SS it lay Music they always say music is the universal language. Well violence is the universal language because you all understand, you know, like if I'm like This your monkey brain responds to hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna punch you or hey I'm gonna hit you with a lead pipe or hey, I'm gonna shoot you we all understand that and It really just You can't have order without it because you know the first the first dude you know you can all decide to be peaceful and a cute little circle and You know the first dude who who was like I bet I could take your stuff You know like that that's you need violence to stop that because someone's gonna do that Just call the policeman. They'll do it for you With violence, you know That's you know, like, you know Basically the police just come and like assault you and then like the only reason why you say, okay, sir I'll walk away with you is because otherwise they'll kill you. Yeah, like that's violence And again, and that's the only reason laws work Well, it's also the basis of taxation today is collected under the threat of violence We just yeah a lot about yeah, well because you wouldn't pay it otherwise Why would I give the government like it like 20% of my income if if they didn't make me, you know Like it's that's the only reason, you know, like and all of it you can't run a business I mean all the laws that protect businesses all these things like it's all Routed in violence and and you know, it's just a nasty part of human reality that it's always gonna be there Yeah, yeah putting some, you know, here we go adding it Putting some picture or video to the to what you're saying here. This is actually a group of Italians defending their pizzeria With shotguns, I mean, it's it's pretty and there's a lot of videos like this. It's not just the Italians, of course But it's just it's just I mean there's a whole group of people that come up to them trying to smash the store and all that crap And yeah, they have to defend it with violence They can't you know, wherever the cops are they're not there and then of course This is also you'd probably familiar with the famous meme the roof Koreans were the ones famous Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah classic roof. Yeah, the classics exactly. Yeah Yeah, I mean why I believe that we're living through a new age of classics are being created right now, obviously, but Yeah, I mean and that's that's something that I think that a lot of people have now had to realize is that the police may not come and It's not even exist in some cities. It's gone. Yeah Which I think that that'll be probably bullshit a little bit and that they're you know Do some things that don't really matter, but Yeah, I mean it but you know like in these riots obviously the police can't do anything because Once you press play on that like it's gonna go down fast. So they had to You know not do anything and so they had to just let stuff happen because they're under orders to do that and So there you are if you don't know how to defend yourself if you can't protect your property or whatever it gets destroyed Yeah, and there's nothing that you can do about it and that I Mean I think that's good because a lot of people were being forced to think about that reality Yeah, you're either being forced to face it in a very visceral way Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean so it could be really good for society But it's just so hard to tell where things are going because they're moving so fast. Yeah Yeah, I wanted to get to I mean you've talked about this in some of your books, I think but it's easy Well, I don't know how to put it exactly you kind of go you look at it from both angles Like are we doomed? Is this the fall of Rome? Is it all over or is our thing is gonna get a lot better? Are we maybe at the beginning of a better age rather than something dark? What I think in your book basically you keep you keep it open to both possibilities that we could be hitting like a New Dark Age or we could be going something very positive where a lot of the stuff gets worked out And we build a better future Man, that's what I want Like this doomsday guy who lives off a grid and like hates the world and just wants to burn it down It's it's the exact opposite man. I'd like yeah, I like my life. I'm doing cool stuff I really don't want to live through a civil war. Although that's kind of where it looks like it's going right now Yeah, I mean that's that's not good for anyone if you actually understand anything, you know, like that's it's gonna be bad Yeah, and I don't want that but you know It's I also don't want to be a slave so You know like that's and that's it really is The founders of our country, you know, you know, it's coming back to a lot of principles that they had to deal with Yeah, I wanted to ask you you said violent, you know, we're talking about balance is golden How do you think the founders? Played that out in real life. Were they an example of violence is golden using it For something very just and very noble or is it fitting what you're saying here in terms of fighting? The British Empire and building a nation Yeah, man, I really want to read a biography I mean, there was this great series recently in a history channel usually produces garbage but there there was this great series on George Washington and I watched the whole thing. It was really well done and really even handed and it talked about his life and and Yeah, there's a guy who was raised to fight for the Empire, you know, he's raised a fight for Britain and So he's part of the military class and at a certain point that's like someone says no and He had to change sides really and you know join a different thing and I really think he's a really Positive example of a lot of things that I'm talking about in in my my older work but also in things that I'm working on now in the sense that he's you know, this this servant of order and And you know the sort of servant of order and freedom and You know, but isn't obsessed with power and that that's the The difference between I think him and a lot of people who came after him and you know a lot of people now I mean dude wasn't obsessed with power. He just wanted to make things right Yeah, he had the opportunity to be a king basically and there was a lot of push for that from certain people But he turned it down Exactly exactly like he's these he's a good dude Yeah, yeah Yeah, we need to bring him back and quit turning his statues down Isn't it amazing that we're seeing statues of him and Thomas Jefferson torn down. It's like holy shit, man Yeah, I mean it that's the thing about the the really far left and the really far left and the really far right of both Equal paints the ass but and they deserve each other and we don't deserve the rest of them, but they're they want to tear things down because they hate ideals and And you know that they hate, you know anything that came before them and they hate, you know anything that's a kind of a gold standard and But they they can't replace it with anything Yeah, I was gonna ask it. They don't place anything Is this related to your concept of the Empire or nothing you talk a lot about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I mean which is weird because I really think the far left. They're just useful idiots right now for like, you know Big corporation and so forth. They're not really Yeah, let me tell you Oprah Winfrey and you know Yeah, Microsoft guy and whatever they're not gonna let A bunch of trustafarians redistribute their wealth Like that that's not happening. Communism is not coming You know like that Obviously, they're pushing that and that that's their ideology and whatever But uh, you know, all all these extremely You know, Jeff Bezos, they're not gonna be like, oh, you know what guys here Here's my trillions of dollars. Why don't you just share it? You know, like that's not happening And so I I don't know where they think they're going or what they they think they're actually going to achieve They're just destroying things I wanted to let's actually move into this while you're mentioning the far left and the far right So before we went live you mentioned that there was an article that came out A national review and you've actually issued you requested they they do a retraction So the far right's people problem and they're associating you with NTF or something like that So what's going on here? Yeah Yeah Man, yeah, it's rough rough day Uh, you know, I've been I've been working obviously. I mean anyone who's followed by work or whatever it's like I As a new author the first people who ever wanted me to speak anywhere were like the alternative right And white nationalists and stuff and so they invited me To speak some places and I've never said anything like hateful towards other groups Um, and you know, that was never really my thing. I'm like, hey, I'll speak and you know, I see some good points that you have And uh, you know, there was some common ground there and I think that you've you've made a lot of posts actually recently on social media The one thing that you can You can advocate genocide against one group of people in america and it's white men And that's not cool and it's not fair and that's the best argument They have unfortunately they go down a road that is really unproductive and you know Pie in the sky stuff and it does things that don't work and aren't good for america or anyone But you know, I mean that that is the one point that they have and uh, it just shows actually that You know, like these big social media companies. They don't actually want to stop hate because I can tell you that All this stuff this constant banning and saying that like you can kill white men and you can and all that Uh, that's created. These guys are probably having a boom right now You know, they're getting a lot of money and they're getting a lot of guys who who are being drawn into something That's really stupid at the end of the day, but they're being drawn into the far right by They're being pushed there kind of by the far left and by the by the social media and so forth because they feel attacked And you know like white nationalist groups and stuff like that like super far right stuff super far, right? Yeah Yeah, I mean, yeah, which you know like white nationalism like that doesn't work in america. There's no way How do you do that? That doesn't even make sense, you know, like You know, I get what you're saying that it's uh, you know There's explicit calls to abolish whiteness this white fragility slander and defamation against white people White people are literally under attack as a group of people in america right now and throughout the west And it's explicit it's spray painting on walls kill whitey abolish white people like holy fuck Yeah, and and that's I mean to allow that, you know on on these platforms But like say that you can't say that about anybody else It's unfair and dude see that and they react to it and they get mad and they get pushed in this direction That ultimately is unworkable and so that that I mean obviously so I've had a good about our experience dealing with like white Nationalists in the far right and whatever I basically uh, you know, I did some speaking and so forth and hung out with them, you know Up until charlottesville when they kind of went full white nationalist And then I was like, yeah, no i'm out, you know, like I don't want to deal with you guys anymore You're you're stupid. You're making bad decisions Uh, you know, if you're gonna march with actual nazis, then that's what you are And you know, I don't I don't want any part of that And uh, so, you know, I've been trying to clean up my name and get the hell away from that for like years I mean actually that was one of the reasons why I started speaking at 21 convention I'm like, oh, this is positive. This is just guys trying to help Men be better. That's what I want to do. That's what I'm about And and so, you know, like I was really excited to get that opportunity to go and speak at 21 and and uh You know start down like a more positive road I mean really I was only dipped into that that world for like like two or three years, but man does that following for a while? Uh, anyway, so that article in the national review Uh, it's really embarrassing for them. And I think they might take it down. I mean, I would hope Uh, because basically it's a book review But it's a book review of a book Uh, where the chapter on me Was written by a guy named matthew n lions Who if you go to his website has like You know, it is it is about page. It's like It shows that he's writing. He's been writing for many years and he's very proud of it for antifa Wow So it's a book written by antifa that the national review this conservative publication just actually just repeated all their talking points Yeah, and so it's a telephone telephone game bullshit. Yeah, it's very embarrassing for them and and some of the What i'm trying to get retracted me is like like they say that i'm still in the wolves of inland Which is I and like I haven't been for like a year and a half And uh, and they put my name beside richard spencer and you know, richard spencer actually texted me a few days ago And uh, I sent him a I he he sent me a voicemail Of course, I'm not gonna call and talk to him, but I sent him a text. I'm like, hey dude We're not going to the same place. We can't really talk like I don't want to be associated with what you're doing or where you're going And uh, you know, because I knew him obviously, you know, he had he invited me to speak and and so forth And and so it's just really frustrating because I'm like mentioned right beside him as if we're buddies and then uh, you know In and it's just then but that's unfortunately the media can create a reality That's not true. I mean like yeah, I mean, I'm I'm just trying to do something good and uh, it's really really frustrating Yeah, richard. Yeah, I hear you man richard spencer seems to be a tool of the crazy left to go after Uh positive voices year and example that but also recently they're going after I think jack murphy, you know from the convention and mike cernovich And jack murphy almost apparently he almost beat the shit out of richard spencer And this is a whole debacle they had in person up at an event that mike cernovich is putting on a while ago Yeah, and they were they were tweeting about this publicly. This is a couple days ago It's the same thing richard spencer's like this is, you know, this hammer to beat people up with Yeah, it's very sketchy very You know, it's a shame because you know, like I've had drinks with the dude like like he's he seems okay and then unfortunately, he's just chosen this path And okay, well, I can't go with you where you're going but he you know, he's chosen this path and he's protected You know, I mean, he's he's he's a guy who's always going to have money I mean, I think he remember him saying that to to me like I'll never run out of money, you know Because you know, his family's rich and so maybe okay and a lot of that and uh The same thing is on the far left. Obviously you have a lot of these people who are antifa who are like, you know, the classic fucking put down is is uh Sorry, I'm killing your youtube stuff with the efforts, but um, yeah um The classic thing is trust of trust of our ins Okay, you know, like the they were you know, all the people on the left are trust of our ins, you know Like they they know that if they they they they're done getting mad at daddy That they can go back and get their bmw back and in whatever and they're fine And but they're gonna beg for change on the street and I remember like living in san francisco You see that all the time. It's like these kids are not poor Uh, you know like and uh the same thing, you know, a lot of the figures, I mean On the on the far right, uh, the very far right obviously white nationalists and stuff I mean, they're you know They have money they come from money and so they can say whatever they want and do whatever they want So they're free in that way But you know, they have no consequences. I mean, I have to think about consequences of my actions, you know and and and so forth and Because I'm basically working class And uh, you know, but he can just do whatever so he he gets to play and have fun being this like radical figure in history And uh, that's cool for him, you know it's uh, you know, unfortunately what I see and what really makes me angry is that They these guys take a lot of people with them and a lot of good dudes who you know went down the wrong internet rabbit hole and Their lives get ruined And it's sad Because they could have been good guys and whatever. I mean, and I've had I've talked to a lot of dudes who you know They see this stuff and you know, they see white men kneeling and in the streets and they get angry They're like, I I don't want to kneel. I'm not gonna be like good dudes. They're like, I that's not what I'm about and And I talked to him. I'm like, yeah, dude that there's no way out of that Like we're you don't go down that path You know, like if you want to if you want to be a good white person Just you know, have white kids and raise them well and have a job and and do Do good You know, there's no there's no war that's coming where the nazis or the the white nasus rise up and take over america That's not legitimate Yeah, it's a car. It's a cartoonish Take on white people in america you see it even in movies and stuff like I saw it in the purge series Have you ever seen that the movies? I'm aware of it. I haven't seen them. But yeah, it's exactly it's I mean, it's absurd It's like there's this new political party that gets formed the new founding fathers or some shit And there's literally like kkk people in car in trucks with like torches Driving down the road shooting up black churches and shit. I mean, it's absurd And and that's that's a far left fantasy Yeah, you know, like that's one of the things I've dealt with You know, the splc is is just a terrible organization They're hate group. Yeah. Yeah, and they've But they they make their money and you know, you know, these organizations like I'm sure the people at the top Are being paid like a lot of money, you know, like they're doing fine and so they make their money by scaring white liberals into like into like sending the money, you know, like there are new hate groups on the rise And that's what they they say every year, you know, like they've been saying that every year for forever and This year is probably true um, but You know, I've I've been named as being in one of those hate groups And I could tell you it was five guys sitting around a campfire Like it's not a lot of there a lot of their hate groups that they report are One dude who's on the spectrum and has a website, you know, like he is one dude to computer It it's it there aren't I mean the fbi crushed real neo nazis like in the late 90s. I mean that they don't exist in any way that's scary Uh, you know, there's no big rising tide of you know, neo nazis that are coming back to to to you know Kill, you know people of color That's not real. In fact, I mean, I mean If you really know white nationalist and I've been in a room with awesome And it was this was a surprise to me because you know, I got flown out to to talk at one of their events and so forth and it was You know, like I I didn't even know I was supposed to But that's what they that's what they're really about they they don't really hate black people that much They're just kind of like, oh, they're kind of you know bad and they create crime And uh, but when they talk about, you know, they can't stop talking about jews That's that's their major thing. Oh, yeah No, that's dude that that is their major major thing and and once they go down that rabbit hole Then they can attribute every problem in the world. They'd be like, well, it's the jews. Well, it's the jam Well, it's and that's what they do and it's and and that wow That's a super unproductive way to look at problems like oh everything in the world is and and I wrote about this a little bit in the A more complete beast. I mean not that specifically but this is They take on a victim mindset Yeah, exactly Uh, they take on a victim mindset where you know, like They're oppressed. They're oppressed minority that the jews are out to get them And uh, and and so they just kind of become victims and uh, they lose a sense of agency and and uh, it's just really An unhealthy way to to think and to live and it's not it's not true I mean like, you know, if you look at all these The people who are you know messing with things right now. It's like bill gates You know, he's not a jew You know, like all these other They're not running everything and they're not like the people really behind everything and but that's what they believe and Yeah, it's it's just not true Yeah, victim culture seems to be the real pandemic For the past 10 years or so and it keeps growing growing every it's it's everywhere, you know That's what I see with all this BLM stuff and a teeth and all this crap I mean a teeth is particularly toxic, but Yeah, it's all as a victim culture. No responsibility. No agency. Don't fix my shit Blame everyone else, you know, whatever you I mean the jew thing you see that on youtube a lot It's all over youtube these comments. It's a little just a random accounts. No no face. No name You know, no, it's not a real account. It's like a little bot or not. It's like a puppet Yeah, you know what you know, what's amazing is how courageous the white man is with behind his anonymous profile Uh, you know, it's it's I get these guys all the time I had somebody impersonate me on instagram yesterday. Like, uh, yeah, it was like it was a rough day yesterday And you got impersonators on instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess that's I mean, you know, but uh Yeah, they an account personally is just, you know, like an alt-right troll and they're all like anonymous guys who hide in the shadows Because you know, they probably work at Best Buy and they're gonna lose their job if anyone knows what they do But um, or you know, they did work at Best Buy when it was open Uh, and uh, you know, they're never gonna create anything And uh, you know, they're just sad little dudes, but yeah, I mean, it's all it's it's all yeah It's definitely for them. It's all about the Jews and it's it's it's unfortunate You know, and because that's not a position of strength to and and that's you know, like You know, I think as men we need to take agents, you know, take take agency and take ownership of of our situation No matter what it is and not just we can be mad obviously the founders were like, hey, you know the king Not cool, you know, we're being oppressed. I mean sometimes that's real But you know, what are you gonna do about it? And if you're not gonna do anything if if that's your whole mindset and you just focused on that for your whole life Man, that's that's not a great life Yep. Yeah much better to be creative and uh stay solar. You know, I hear it's a good thing Exactly. I'm trying to stay solar The the the sun the neon light behind you is doing a pretty good job of that. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it helps It helps. Let's let's talk about staying solar though. So this is a whole concept. Uh that you've been promoting for a while now It's been your shtick for at least a few months. I love it It's been picked up by a lot of guys in the monastery that follow you Um, I say it sometimes, you know, even when your when your speech came out get ready to get solar Yeah, um guys like tan or gold man. Everyone likes it a lot with good reason Yeah, yeah, it's really positive and as I said, I've been trying to to push people in a positive direction and and uh Talk about creating, you know Being the center, you know, being the warm center of of the people around you Um and and being this positive force of of order and light Um, I mean, I think that's what men I think their primary thing is that men care about order And uh, and I think that you know, I you know, I was on parlay the other day and that's that's one of these big things that i'm pushing right now is that You know, don't be confused about this race thing or the other thing and think if if if men are going to have any kind of pushback Uh, it has to be in the service of order and it has to be you know in the service of excellence And and excellence is really kind of the opposite of victim culture, you know, like uh This culture where you're valued by how much you've been hurt and oppressed and like by how badly you're losing is is antithetical to the idea of you know Trying to be the best that you can be And I think that you know Men have traditionally loved the idea of of excellence and that's that's one of the things I say like uh You know, that's one of the reason why the white nationalists and so forth are never going to be anything because guys in the military and uh, you know All the really high performing dudes in the world Um, you know elite athletes, you know, like special forces guys all these guys They're not gonna they care about excellence Yeah, they want to surround themselves with the best men all the time and that's what they're about And I think that that's what we should all be about But uh, I mean, I guess rolling it back to stay solar. I mean, I think that uh I think that there's also a lot of value in Staying on your path. I think the the sun is a really good imagery because it's it's very constant In what it does and uh, you know, it's it's gonna do A one friend of mine who's actually kind of a An operator dude he this is his quote was that you know, like sometimes the sun's gonna blind you You know, like it's gonna do what it's gonna do whether you like it or not and uh, so I think it's important to to stay on your path and uh, not be Especially in this day and age with all the social media and so forth um It's easy to be pulled off path By every little thing and I think it's important to to remember who you are and what you're about And and stay stay there And keep going in the direction that you're going and not let every little thing Pull you in this way in that way and whatever and that's that's a constant struggle I think we all have to deal with especially with all this input I mean, I just wanted to sit down and write a book this year and like The life happened, you know, like this whole area, you know, it's like I I don't like to even comment on current events, but I felt like I was called to like I had to at a certain point like because you know I saw some stuff that I wasn't seeing people talk about I felt the exact same way man. I before this year. I almost never commented on race stuff in america Like extremely rare be once a year maybe you usually just to rile people up and kind of troll people and fuck with them I really Yeah But now it's not a joke anymore like, you know, it's uh, I feel like Racism was dying off in america real real hatred and prejudice against other people And now it's been a huge uptick and it's just a well-being crap We're told that blm is anti-racist and anti-racism is this new religion. It's all garbage. They're the it's antifa They're all fucking racist man. It's crazy and they're and there's something hatred between people and it's fucked up It's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I agree as well. I do think that It was on the downslope, you know, like racism was like going away because I really think that it's 20th century discussion and I think the power that You know what the far right is pulling from these ideas that we're really like, you know Like late 19th century ideas and then became obviously world war two And that reached their kind of zenith in world war two and uh, it's they're pulling from these ideas that are old and Like the elites that these guys worship, you know, like these guys all worship, you know their their ancestors and these ancient kings and all this stuff and uh Those people they're they're their bloodlines have all moved on Like they're they're they care about wealth now. They're not they don't care about race or their people or whatever And so it becomes kind of a it's a pleb thing, you know, like it's a focus on that And uh, and I think that yeah, I think the world just because of the way it operates because of, you know, global trade and so forth People were interested in different things and I don't think race really matters like I said, I do We care about excellence now like we'd have asked people care about excellence and that's what we should be focused on and you know, I think that the people who You know, the left wants to LARP The left and the right the far left and the far right really want they're larping like the earliest early 20th century Like they want to do commies versus nazis and it's like cowboys and Indians, you know, like they want to do this thing that's a It it's inconsequential Like communism is coming nazis aren't coming like these are not real problems. The real problems are, you know You know billionaire is moving, you know, like making stuff happen. That's bigger than any of us And uh, you know, like the surveillance state and you know, like real threats to liberty that just happened Other ones would be like one world government one world currency collapsing economies things like that Yeah, yeah, I mean the real problems are not like black versus white or whatever that's that's not the issue It's definitely uh, I mean, we just saw how The freedoms that we took for granted were just taken away from us Yeah, like Let's talk about that problem, you know, like by tiny by tiny little tyrants too Not even the president but mostly governors and these these little mayors and shit of counties and cities I call them tiny tyrants a little little bullies, man Yeah Uh, you're freezing up. Can you hear me? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean my my state's run by Yeah, yeah My my from by this uh, this chick who's yeah the perfect, you know, like she's an sjw basically like and uh You know, like she's on the train and so like no you have to do this. No you have to do that And yeah, they're they're they're kind of mad with power Yeah, and uh, I mean that's the problem in america not race You know, like that's that's what we should care about is is uh, hey, I would still like to be free next year Like that's that's what we need to focus on and and I've been trying to That's why I feel like I've been talking at all about politics is just like I'm I'm trying to steer people away from the extremes and uh Because we have something in common that we're about to lose Yeah, like I I I want I want black men and white men and men of color and all it to Realize that they're about to not be free And uh, that's what that's what matters Yeah, you actually have a great article on this uh, that we should pull up and you put this out september 5th 2019 I loved it when it came out And I loved it because of its simplicity and its focus on what really matters I hadn't seen someone do this usually people focus on the constitution Maybe like me they'll focus on the declaration of independence Uh, but you actually focus on something different the bill of rights As to the beginning of the federal constitution or the first, uh, you know 10, uh 10 So talk to me about this sake. Why did you choose? I mean isn't this outdated the bill of rights? I mean this is ancient this is ancient tax on jay got to get with the times dude. I mean come on 2020 bro Yeah, freedom is so out of fashion. Oh, totally. Like it's so like 20, you know, like it's so 1776 uh I really love this though. I mean the focus on the bill of rights is what matters now that is like I think can you notice? I mean, this is you know, like again, this is my response to like obviously I've been in different places I've been to the extremes. I mean, you know, it's like, yeah I People want to put me a box because I was like I hung out with these people for like three years, but I've also You know been a liberal in San Francisco You know, I voted for John Kerry at one point like I've I've been the whole I've done the whole thing And uh, and this is what I care about, you know, like at the end of the day I think the bill rights is something that Most American men can get behind and I care. I care what color you are or whatever. I think that, you know, like these are these are there People always think of rights and this is a really bad mistake that that gets perpetuated by a lot of these Extremist groups is that people always think of rights as things that the government's supposed to give you And the way the positive rights is what that's called. Exactly positive rights And you know, really the the bill of rights is to protect you from the government Yeah, they're all negative rights. Yeah, exactly Yeah, yeah, and that's that's that's what matters and that's these are in place because power was abused so often in the past Yeah, the founders thought these they hear the things that are important because we've seen this stuff go bad and uh, we're seeing it these be ignored and and you know used as toilet paper and whatever and uh They're there for a reason and you know, like that's what the founders fought for And I think what aggravates me to a lot is not just uh, there's government abuses local state federal sometimes of these of these rights Sometimes massively the surveillance state On all americans as an example that But also now we see what's what's frustrating and it's now a big issue of course on the internet Is basically corporations huge multi billion even trillion dollar corporations like apple Basically circumventing the bill of rights and being policers of speech and things like that And given that they're not governments, you know the the bill of rights is like you're saying it's a statement of rights for americans negative against government the restrictions on government But it's like I see the bill of rights not just as a set of political rights But as american values and I that's kind of what I take away from your focus in this article too In his corporations are the first time I think in american history at this level Are really aggressively against these rights as values not just as political rights that are limitations on government Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, yeah, and you know, it's again, it's it's from people who don't have the consequences of their actions I mean like if you have a private security force, you don't have to care about uh, you know the second method Yeah, uh, you know, they know a lot of these people do, you know, like like I said, they're not They're not rioting at bill gates this house because I'm guarantee you it's defended You know and uh, and that's that's the problem is that these You know oligarchs, you know are basically like they're protected and so they don't care about everybody else having rights And uh, so the rest of us, you know, just get you know, I guess I guess I'll just be drug on the street and be beaten to death because you know like It's We we need these things to protect ourselves Although interestingly interestingly in california's san ale they had antifa or blm at some point. They had signs that said eat the rich Yeah, I was like hey, maybe they'll maybe they'll learn a lesson Maybe bill gates will have rioters showed this house trying to eat them Yeah, but they won't Hard it's easy to like, you know, like because they pick easy battles, you know, like they're not gonna I I lived in LA and Man, I knew when I left that I'm like, this is this is a powder keg Because you know like compton is not that far from everly hills Uh, you know, it's there's there's a lot of extreme wealth really close to a lot of poverty and uh But you know, you didn't see antifa like going to Beverly Hills Uh, because you know, it's probably defended, you know, like they're and also that's that's a hard fight They just want to march in the street and jump up and down and break a lot of things and and have a you know A central city location, but you know, if they really wanted to eat your rich, I mean, they're there You know, they're they're there go go go have fun You know, and I'm not I don't like class I mean, you know hating people who have more than you is a leftist class thing And uh, I don't hate people who have more money than me It doesn't become concerning when you're in the when people when people have more money than nations like That's because that's an extreme amount of power. Yeah, then but and Really, it's they don't have the the restrictions that nations have You know, like they can do things that uh, you know are kind of above the law in a weird way And so it's it's concerning, but the average person who's maybe a millionaire like I don't yeah, I don't hate that guy I'm like, let me know your secret Like I want to yeah, I want to do well in life I want ever, you know other people to do well in life and and uh, you know I don't want to be this person who hates everybody who has more than them Uh, that's that's what the the left, you know kind of pushes You know, they they they take advantage of this jealousy and I talked about a lot in a more complete beast I think one of the biggest problems In the world is his resentment and this this idea that um You know, like someone who has more than you is, you know, you're gonna punish them in some way You know, it needs to talk to a lot about it in terms of the Christianity and so forth And you know, like they're gonna be punished in heaven And uh, you know, they're gonna be punished in hell and we're going to heaven because we're the good poor people and they're the evil rich people Uh, but you know, it's it's you know, it then also is you know, obviously part of Marxism and all this kind of stuff this class hatred and uh, you know, I I think that America really Even as bad as things were and obviously you and I have both addressed problems that were going on in America that were long before this year Yeah, but Up until this year America was a pretty good place to live For for most people, you know, there was still a lot of opportunity and a lot of you know, and uh Envy of the world Yeah, yeah, I mean a lot of opportunity if if you really wanted to be something you really still could And uh, you know, I hope that that's still around You know, you know in a little while, you know, I you know I think that yeah people who work hard. We're still doing well Yeah, i'm optimistic. Uh, I mean things are pretty pretty fucking rough right now in a lot of different ways Uh, you know, I think the feminists here are gonna have their summer now They're gonna come back around you have all the stuff going on now. You have the pandemic stuff You have the economy stuff But i'm still pretty confident. Well not confident, but that's not the right word optimistic that history will repeat itself And we'll see kind of a roaring twenties I do think trump's gonna win probably in a landslide of some sort pending some variables that are still unknown And we'll see things we'll see things bounce back, but we got to see if that happens, you know It's one thing that they theorize about it and guess but it's another threat to play out in real life Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it's There's a big blind spot that the media creates I think because they don't They only see people who are engaged with them And that's that's what they they mistook with the trump election last time Is like they only see their world and they only see the people who engage with them I'm like, do you know how many dudes don't have social media profiles? Yeah, who are just sitting back and watching and shaking their heads like no And I mean, I know I know a lot of guys like that who just are not active on social media They're not they're not out there, but they're sitting there and they're watching Well, they call this the twitter echo chamber too is even more Specific form of it. These ever these these, you know, twitter is filled with leftist, you know hard left crazy left whatever and it's just They think they're the majority because they're just like this little echo chamber of twitter Just reading each other in his giant circle jerk that just goes to infinity Yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's it's uh, and that's you see that in different places I mean, obviously like I live near portland And yeah portland is like It's just assumed that you're you know a progressive You know, it's if not far left you're at least progressive and it just it's you know, you could sit Yeah, people will talk to you. They won't And maybe it like, you know, like nazis to them, you know, like they can't even imagine that you would That you would have not heard the gospel and and not understand, you know, like that, you know The npr reality that they live in, you know, and and uh Then that's you know, it's so you know, that's a very local echo chamber And it's it's really difficult to to watch in the sense that like how long will that last You know in portland one of the best Best things about portland, uh was the restaurant scene Like there was a lot of really high-end Top of the top of the world kind of food that you could get You know done by chefs with tattoos who didn't really charge that much You know, like it was really they had a really good restaurant scene and most of the restaurants in portland will never open again and as a result of the policies of the far left governor and like I I'm like, how long will it How much will it take for people to You know who just lost their jobs and their dreams and their entire way of life To realize that it's the result of something that that they've supported And uh, you know, I think that that if there if there is you know in the election season We'll have to see I mean I can't imagine that there aren't a lot of people who's like I'm poor now You know, like I I just said that I had a big dream I had like ever I was successful and now I have nothing and I'm in debt because Of what these liberal governors have done And I hate the word liberal. I mean it it sucks because I mean I I'm probably a liberal like a classical liberal You know, like yeah, like I believe in freedom like there's nothing in what they're pushing that is about liberty Yeah, and uh, that's that's unfortunate You know that that they get to use that word and and and you know, like maybe it's perpetuated by conservatives We call them liberals as as slam and that's just how it works out But I mean I for years I was calling them a police state progressives And man it has never been More true You know except for when they're against the police and somehow think they're gonna enforce All their policies without the police which that how that works, but they they live in a kind of female fantasy zone so Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. They do want a police state They want a police state and then abolish the police It's this weird But in a way it's fitting because everything they do is hypocritical and contradictory. So What else would they do they would they that's exactly I think would you're I think you've really articulated what they want No police in a police state Yeah, it's it's it's like it's a baby talk. I mean I Like you like you live in the growing up world with the rest of us Do you understand anything about how life works? And but they don't you know, yeah I saw blm leader on a black lives matter leader on tv just a day or two ago It was recent. It was a big thing on twitter yesterday blown up Uh, because the the anchor this woman was uh trying to question him if what he was saying was literal or figurative or whatever Is he was saying explicitly that if blm doesn't get what they want, they're going to burn everything down Right, and she's like, what do you mean? And you know trump was tweeting about this insurrection trees and stuff like that explicitly And the dude just won't even uh, well, it's it reminds me baby talk though It's like give me what I want or I'm just gonna have a temper tantrum and burn stuff down In this case he he mentioned everything so yeah, yeah, yeah and man like Again, like not understanding the tactical reality of that is bad Yeah, it is real bad because once that starts It's not gonna stop like you know, it's probably you know, like it's All the all the dudes who know how to take out a like a large amount of people They're a lot of them Like there are a lot of guys who who are not going down You know, they're not gonna let they're not gonna let people burn their neighborhoods down They're angry right now too man. I've I've seen them talking I've talked to some of the hit me of the emmy and stuff on you know social media and stuff like that These guys are war veterans combat veterans and they're fucking pissed man at the way it's going down Like really really angry and they're not public about it. They're just in private discussing it because they're smart That's the thing like they're not they're not they're not I mean I'm a public figure and you're a public figure and we this is how we make our living we this is what we do But that's not what they do and so they're not going to expose themselves to risk in that way Yeah, because they're smart tactically and they're they're gonna sit there and but yeah, I mean the capability Of what these guys can do You know, it's it's pretty staggering and and uh, I know you you can march at them with uh, you know like signs Signs and torches if you want They can take you all out Like and there's so many of those guys. I mean, you know, America's been at war or whatever Overseas for a long time There's a lot of war veterans and there's a lot of guys who have a really advanced skill set and a lot of weapons and uh, so I I Hope that they're not stupid enough to start that because like I said once they started it won't stop And those guys are a switch and once you turn that on it's go time And it's really it's really uh, you know One of my other fears is that uh, you know that's gonna It they're gonna push some people into a shooter position And then they're gonna use that to be like oh well, we need to take take away guns now You know like because they'll do a police state in the opposite direction I really think it's just like I said the left and the far right are just useful idiots right now and You know, I you know, I wonder if the powers would be you're like well, we'll just wait until the the next shooter And then we're gonna push this the other way And uh, you know, but again, I don't think that that's that's the other problem that people don't see I think on the far left is that like uh The police are not going to go around house to house disarming people Like that they the cops aren't for that They won't support that and they won't do it Most cops, uh, like people in guns I've talked to deputies and you know cops in person that I don't even really know just talking to them for whatever reason They love they love guns. They want you to own they always recommend like a shotgun or something I own a couple guns But there's even cops on tv now. There's the sheriff in polk county florida was famous for it a few weeks ago That's about an hour for me not even And he was saying, you know, I encourage, you know, he had this real accent You know redneck accent. He's like I encourage them my citizens here to own guns They love guns. I encourage them to blow you out of the house. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was poet poetry Southern poetry, uh, but uh Yeah, and there are a lot of guys there are a lot of sheriffs that are they're not going to support that and they're not going to You know that it's or they're just being silent and I mean, I know that you know in the place where I live Um, the lockdown was not enforced in any way. They're not going to they don't have a staff for that You know, they don't have a staff to go around and tell people to go in the houses and and uh In florida, I was going to the beach with tony bruno george bruno's brother You know beach we're going you know restaurant. I was going to the gym and shit during the lockdown I had access to one that my friend owned So there was amiga during orlando. There was traffic throughout the pelt the you know those schools that stayed home It's bullshit. Everyone was out doing whatever they wanted pretty much Yeah, yeah, I mean like here there was a there was a patch where people were literally legitimately I mean, I was concerned. I didn't know what's going on You know like I had I had one of my special forces buddies was was pretty hard on the This is real and so I just followed his lead and I was doing all the disinfecting everything and whatever And uh and then then you watch the numbers and you realize it wasn't real And you know, it's not what they said it was and and uh And I think a lot of people did that because I just remember like I wrote a post about on instagram I'm like if there was this weekend where it was very clear that no one gave a shit anymore You know like I could see it like you know I go to go to the supermarket and all of a sudden the parking lot's full And people were outside their cars doing whatever they want to people were having pigtails and barbecues and like they just stopped caring And like we're not doing this anymore And I was the same way at the beginning the first you know week or two It's like holy shit. Shit's popping off toilet papers gone foods gone Water's gone. Yeah, I was already stocked up for hurricane stuff. So it's pretty solid on that front But I like you though. You don't really know You know, I'm not a fucking virologist. I'm not a biologist. I don't study viruses that in depth. I didn't really know Yeah, I think I already had it though. I think I had it in february There's interviews with my channel with coach quarry wane a big youtuber I interviewed at the time And you see me coughing just like crazy for like 10 days Because I he interviewed me like three times and then I interviewed him And all the interviews and I was like It wasn't that bad though. I just thought it was like dude I thought it was like strep throat or the flu or something. I was like, okay. Fuck this stupid thing Yeah, a lot of people got it and like I said, they don't even really know what the timeline is They've been a lot of thinking about that. I mean my sister had it. I mean her and her husband because her husband actually Works at a company where he was actually in wuhan At the end of last year So like he came back and they both got really sick for a couple days And uh, and then you know, so she's been pissed about the entire time because she's like, I already had this bullshit, you know But uh, yeah, I mean, I so I think a lot of people had it and and You just don't know it's it's a real shame that they didn't protect protect more old people Yeah, like they should have protected old people instead of Destroying all of our freedoms, uh, you know like uh, because that's really where the risk is You know, that's that's unfortunate But you know a lot of old people probably died because they made a lot of bad decisions and I think a lot of this um Black lives matter and all this stuff is just really Well, let's focus on this so everybody forgets about You know because You know, they're never going to take responsibility for what they did You know, and that's that's the real shame. I mean, I would love to see one governor come up forward. Like, you know what? I was wrong Like I did had to bet did the best I could with the information I had it didn't work out the way we thought it would I I over You know, I overshot it, you know, like but no one's ever going to take responsibility For anything and so that's the that's a really unfortunate thing about our political system And I don't I'm not a political theorist. I don't know how to fix it But you know with people, you know going for reelection every four years I mean, they're just they're that's their goalpost And they just have to avoid responsibility and blame blame somebody else And until they get through the next election cycle and that's that's what everybody I think is focused on doing right now And yeah, I bet they're real glad that america is, you know, having a mini race war Because I really think I mean I could feel it and I really think that There was about to be widespread civil disobedience in a lot of ways Be when people got tired of lockdown And you know, I think that the the governor they magically redirected the anger of the populace at at these you know race issues that didn't need to be there and It instead of at the governors and things like that, you know Yeah, even in florida, you know our governor has been uh, I think florida has been one of the best states It's been I think maybe the top throughout the whole the whole union But even he now is just getting, you know, attacked like so hardcore. He was attacked during all the stuff Even though the the cases were low and the deaths and all this bullshit as well as his limitations on The state he was like absolutely minimal with everything, you know, the beaches were open You know, he used to use that shit, you know It was harassed for by the media even now though the state has like We have the same population as new york and like a fraction of their problems with covet in terms of cases and deaths and stuff And he's just getting blasted He's not all narrative, you know, like yeah, I mean that's the thing so media is just going to go after these things that, you know, like You know, like uh, you know, whatever, you know People got sick of the shrump rally and ignore all the other things that people have been doing, you know, that kind of stuff I mean, that's that's just how they're focused and You know, it's it's weird that A friend of mine was saying like he's like, I don't know how to get my dad has become a zombie For watching cnn, you know, like like, you know people I think because we had to tune in to stuff like I don't watch network news. I haven't years But at a certain point it's like when stuff like the laws were changing every day You're like, oh, I have to I actually have to know Some of this stuff and so I have to be exposed to it and uh But people who were already watching it then, you know, they're in a position where they're just watching the news 24 seven and it's making them crazy, you know, it's it's making them into zombies and then so like It's like food for your brain. You're just stuffing it with garbage Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's it's really it's really unhealthy and and they're getting this Very curated narrative about reality And it was hard. I mean, I was having trouble finding anything legitimate Uh, when I was looking for information, uh, just I mean, uh, like I was watching the state's website You know like for numbers and that's kind of how I made my decision about like, okay, this is bullshit like You know, most of these people are old and sick who are dying and Like the vast majority The other day I saw what they posted because I still follow it every once in a while and I'm like, oh Someone who is 95 died. Yeah, like like that's the new death of like, oh my god. We've had more deaths People who are 95 die. I think it's it's a sad point of human existence like Almost no one lives to be a hundred, you know, and uh, it's But these people are plugged into that narrative They're like people are dying people are dying people are dying and they can't they can't turn it off and uh, it's it's really You know all the illnesses and so forth and conditions and so forth that are going to come out of this are pretty You know bad too. Yeah, that's the other thing that's really crappy about the way it was handled a lot of places. It's like Everything that was done is about a society that's organized around weakness instead of strength I mean like closing down the gyms stay inside All the things that we've said that they want us to do like be like passive little consumers Watching our TVs at home Really getting sicker Because I mean all these people that were in great health then weren't allowed to go to the gym were eating Whatever they could find, you know getting fat, you know, like uh I'm sorry vitamin D levels. Yeah. Yeah, totally. That was that was a really bad misstep if they were actually caring about public health Like let's keep everyone inside even though the one thing that they can actually improve their health and make them more resistant to this Is, you know to be outside, you know, like let's close down the parks where they can hike alone You know, like that was amazing to me because I never thought they would do that because why would you do that? Like I live in a place that looks like, you know, lord of the rings And uh, I was like, I'm just gonna go out hiking. I can take lots cool pictures for instagram I'll do that and when they should cut shut down all the parks. I was like, what? Like the one place where you can like I'm gonna be out of nature away from everyone No, that's how that did you see a video is it was some beach in california the cops were chasing on foot This like lone jogger running down the beach He's like actually just going for a jog down the beach and there's like two cops and he had random So just kind of funny But they're just it's like why are you what does this do this dude is is is a hundred feet from anyone including cops You know sprinting away from them But he's just trying he's just trying to exercise and they're just like it's it's insanity. Yeah, it's crazy Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's you know, like all these things are just making people sicker and it's it's really It's really not good, you know, let's shift gears a little bit So earlier we were talking about staying solar We're talking about and you talked about your experience at the 21 convention and therefore I think that's one of your first live events. Maybe the first for the manisphere That's kind of the premiere event for the manisphere in terms of long running comprehensive conference with a lot of different speakers throughout that community So what's your experience been because I get a lot of heat for being you know, people think i'm negative They think, you know, blah blah this bullshit I got a tacky, you know for being all that stuff But at the end of the day, like I think you're basically saying the event and your experience of the manisphere community has been very positive Can you speak to what you've seen about that? Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's that's definitely been You know, all the I mean, I like you said like guys like tanner and a j Cortez and I mean they they're all super positive They're all you know, they're friends of mine and they they uh, yeah I'm glad to have met them through that and uh, they're all saying a very positive message and uh, I mean, obviously there's you know like If you're going to talk about masculinity, you have to talk about feminism and you know how that's affecting masculinity and and how it's making men worse And uh, and how and really making women worse. I mean, you're trying to make women very hen, right? Yeah, you know, but uh, I love that hat that was one of my favorite when you pulled that out like at that Like I think we're all partying in a room or whatever and you pulled it out That is genius But you know, I think that you know, there are a lot of It does a lot of harm and so you have to talk about feminism and so you're going to come a lot a lot of heat I I I don't really go after feminists directly or talk about like things they write about my news on every day Because I don't want to be their slave where I just respond to them Yeah, because I that's a trap. I think a lot of guys fall into but I think Yeah, you do have to talk about some of the bigger issues I like using them is actually I kind of get it from you You talk you've talked in your speeches about I think transvaluation you call it Yeah, they they invert the meaning of things So I kind of use the same concept and I look at what they do like toxic masculinity as you guys can see here And I embrace it and flip it on its head to use it back as a weapon against them So it's like taking their toys and then beating them with it Yeah, I mean a lot of it's baby talk. I mean toxic talks about villainities baby talk It's like And it's it's really, you know, I forgot about it until recently But I mean it's just they've been doing the same stuff for so long and I've talked about that a lot There again, that really hasn't changed since the 70s and they're and they used to call it testosterone poisoning Ah, I don't know that Yeah, that was used to be something. I mean you could probably find articles written about testosterone poisoning and so forth. It was basically their old form of toxic masculinity Classic toxic masculinity guy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I mean again It's just a repackaging of the same thing that they've been saying forever And so yeah, I mean you have to talk about if feminism is a pretty negative thing. It's pretty negatively oriented It's it's based on demonizing men and and killing babies really You know, like that's kind of you can't have feminism without abortion and you can't you know, like that's Unfortunately, I like the way you put that though that I agree with you on the abortion part But also that feminism is very negative And if I had if anyone was watching this looking at what I do I mean, that's the reason I'm so negative towards feminism. It's because it's a negative toxic very Hostile movement towards anything life-affirming positive whether it's men masculinity femininity women fatherhood motherhood family I mean, it's it's so fucking toxic and then they parade it around as this very positive thing, which is absolute bullshit Yeah, I mean it's it's really unfortunate. I think that's you know, I think what you're doing and what other people are doing it's hard to be in this industry of Any kind of activism is usually oriented around people who are broken in some way And you know, it's always oriented in right now around resentment and jealousy and anger and uh, you Take it away from you so I can Is basically a lot of I mean, that's what really feminism was about which is kind of funny Basically like they had to go after men and break up anything that men had so that they can have power And you know, like whether it's just throwing all the men's organizations that have always existed, you know, like You know, like integrating them they had they had to go wherever men are and break them up It kind of just speaks to like how they Like on a level playing field been one, you know, like men men men were winning, you know And they and so they have to like really handicap men so that they can be powerful And that's that's really sad and instead One thing I like point I like to make is that uh, you know Women are not responsible for feminism You know in the way, you know, like I'm not responsible for what the government does, you know, like and Unfortunately, like a lot of women take attacks on feminism as attacks on them And uh, there are plenty of decent women in the world who they just were born into this world Just like the rest of us and they're just trying to make the best of their lives I think feminism has done a really good job at using that cover anything, you know, criticizing against feminism Oh, you hate women. I mean, it's just needy. It's very effective as I think is why they did it It's our well-being. No, I hate feminism and feminists who are terrible human beings You know, like that's you know, I don't hate women I mean why it's like obviously men and women are different and you know Like I said, I'm not I want to die on the hill or race But you know, like men and women are different. I'm not gonna not I'm not gonna stop saying that it's true and uh That I think that's really important for people to just understand that in the in the way that they understand that violence is golden There are certain basic realities of of being a human and men and women are different They have a whole different life experience. Yes And uh, so you have to talk about many women being different and what their natures are and what what the differences are I really like the way you put that you you mentioned what you just said that uh That colors your life experience. You said the same thing in your speech mainly idealism at the convention most recently from 2019 And I agree with you a hundred percent I I've just from a philosophical point of view with objective as a man on rand I came as inclusion probably 10 years ago that being a man is gonna Like you said color your whole experience of human life from day one all the way to the day you die Uh, when your when your child adolescence puberty, uh, you know in your 20s and 30s and as you enter an adulthood parenting Obviously is dino different Yeah, it's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean it well It came from me having to talk about gender and in my earliest books and so forth and and uh, it's Yeah, I mean it's a full life experience I mean, uh, you know, like you had the experience of being a little boy You know like they they didn't have that they had a entirely different experience And it's not all just social programming and mommy put you in a dress and You know, they put you in pants and whatever it's not That it's it's like the way people interact with you and different problems And like one of the easiest ways I think to make women understand it is the idea that like They walk through life knowing that Everyone wants to bang them even if they're not even that attractive Like they they know that they could snap their fingers and and get sex In at any point and men just don't have that life experience. Like that is not their experience I mean even even really attractive men Uh, it's still not quite the same Also as a woman woman who want to you know, there's constantly, you know, men around them who want to fuck them There's met there's human beings around you who want to penetrate you Yeah, it's uh, it's a very aggressive hostile which is good and healthy. I think but it's an assertive aggressive hostile thing Yeah, and it's a I mean that that alone is such a huge difference in your perception of the world All these people around me want to penetrate me And you know, like that's men don't have that experience. I mean, you know, maybe you know walked by gay bar got scared one time or something but like You know, like that's just generally not their reality They they haven't had to experience that but women experience that every day And that's a real fear that they have in a lot of ways and and I think that that's it's legitimate um For them to that but that's just a different way that our experience is shaped And so they've been doing that they haven't been doing it for a week. They've been doing it every day since they were, you know, little girls And uh, you know, that's that's a you know, we're just different and we see the world differently whereas men also we have always been charged with um protection and Dealing with violence and so we're oriented that way and we we look at things tactically In a lot of ways that women just haven't had to Yeah, I like the way you put in your speech again. You it was uh, Basically protecting the perimeter and you brought it right down to not just an analogy, but Basically the origin of this is a fire In terms of the way to see it in the world because it it's The light of a fire is a natural perimeter And uh, you know outside of that is nothing but chaos, you know, because you don't know what's there and uh, you know our our job has always been to protect that perimeter and Because we care about the women we care about the people who are inside and women and children and everybody and that's always been our job And so men are just oriented to look to that When you say that protecting culture is a form of protecting the perimeter in terms of feminism, for example being uh an aggressive very toxic Orwellian, uh, you know, I think it's a hate group honestly like a supremacist group for women For toxic women anyway So, I mean is that example that like is that uh, is that a cultural perimeter we need to protect? absolutely, absolutely. I mean it's uh I mean the culture is really part of that that fire everything around you that's your orientation for life And that's one of the ways I've explained it is that You know our fire is an imitation of the sun Really, uh, you know, it creates light warmth and and and so forth and has its own gravity people gather around the fire, uh, and uh But when we set down a fire and create we're creating a new point of reference in the world And uh that fire, you know, then becomes culture I mean if you if you if you create a camp, uh, and it's there for a few days the camp kind of takes on a life of its own And uh, you get your own inside jokes. I mean, I always say a lot of culture comes from inside jokes Uh, you know because you start talking about things that now only we understand We the people around the fire and uh, all those history and things that happened, uh, you know Yeah, and that's well, that's history and and culture and all that that is our point of reference That's how we understand the world through uh our myths and our frames and and uh our perception of history and and all that and That's one of the reasons why they're attacking it. I think is they're they're attacking our our order which is our order that's protected within the perimeter And they're attacking that But like I said, I don't believe that they have anything They don't have a new order that makes any sense because they don't have an understanding of human nature And they don't understand the tactical reality of things. Yeah, it's just chaos They want to destroy order and have nothing in its place leaving chaos Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's very you know, I always say like, uh, masculine culture is is very, uh, vertical and uh Feminine culture is very horizontal and when they're working in harmony Those things complement each other But uh, if you just have a culture that's totally in a feminine frame Then you know, they want everyone to be the same and everyone to feel accepted and everyone to feel Healthy and they don't want one person to be better than another person. But that's not how the world works and I think men Like to see that order and that that like, okay. Well, this guy is better at this and this, you know, like men hate Uh, everyone's a winner You know, like they'd rather be a loser Then live in a place where everyone's a winner Yeah, they men want it to know what is valued and and uh, and that's a value competition We value the hierarchy that comes from it, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And like hierarchy actually comes from it's like The root of that is is like divine order Uh, you know, it's the higher part when you go out the ancient greek is is uh, it's it's related to of the gods And and so like your whole perception of order comes from this this kind of frame of like what's really sacred to you Yeah And zoos being at the top of this hierarchy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah zoos the the putter Uh, yeah, yeah, the the father figure. I mean All the religions really have some kind of sky god I mean most the major ones that you know, and that's they're all related If you really look at them and it's like they have the sky god and that's father in the sky And it's an idealized father figure and uh, and it's and the idealized father figure is really An ideal for men Like what is the best that I can be I can be this father in the sky this shining force that creates order and and and Yeah, in the realm of chaos I can create order and I think that that's why that the whole state solar thing is a really positive um mantra I mean I created it before all this massive 2020 started but Hey, you know, we are in chaos We are surrounded by chaos and I think that that is the the struggle is to is to stay to stay solar To sit to stay on on your path and and to not Get sucked into it all and Try to be a force of light and order and truth Yeah, and structure. Yeah Yeah, you mentioned make women great again a few minutes ago um One of the way I've you know, I'm looking at your work for a couple years now Obviously since you spoke with the convention in 2017 And one of the things I've thought about it a lot and let me know your thoughts on it Is that make women great again as a push from men, you know, this mansplaining event of the century and all that, right? Um, I think it's very natural for men to want to protect a woman when they see themselves When we see them pushing each other off a cliff I say near the fire, you know in your analogy of it Um, so do you think is that a natural impulse of men to protect women including when they're harming themselves? And is make women great again kind of an illustration of that? Yeah, yeah, I think that yeah men have a natural Drive to protect women. I don't think women see that a lot of times especially when they've been influenced by feminism and so forth. I mean A lot of the good men even up they they see feminism and they see all this anger and whatever and their their impulses still like Still to protect them They they they still can't they they don't have that animosity because you know men see women as being more vulnerable than they are and and so You know good men really don't like picking on Vulnerable people, you know, like they're they're there to they're there to fight other guys like them not People who are you know just easy targets You know, like they don't want to they don't want to go off to soft targets. They want to go after hard targets And you know, I think that yeah men want to protect women and and that's one thing that women have really exploited You know feminists have really explored is that um You know men won't go after them because We we consider it kind of beneath us We're not gonna like because there's no I've always said there's no honor in competition with women because like at the end of the day Oh, you beat a girl Yeah, you beat you beat a little girl. You made a little girl cry Good. I mean who that there's no honor in that it's like that doesn't make me feel good about myself like oh Oh, well, you made grandma cry good good for you. You know, like that's that's like that's a crappy man Uh, you know, we don't want to do that. You know any any decent dude doesn't want to make girls cry They don't they they don't want to go after that. That's not what they're designed to do I mean the same thing when you practice martial arts and all that kind of stuff It's like no dude is going to a martial arts gym to learn how to beat up women You know, he's learned he's going there to learn how to beat up other men You know, they're not We don't we're not wired to compete with women in that way and to to see them as uh, the enemy We're there. We're wired to to look at them as like something that is more vulnerable and needs to be protected Yeah, I think that's why it's been uh, it's been a struggle to push back against feminism for so long And in american culture and western culture Um, I think make women great again is one of the first uh major pushbacks We've seen in a long time and in the reason I think it's working and it's been so effective at reaching over a hundred million people now Is because of the way you described it when you first saw it I felt the same way the minute I saw it. I just knew it was it was the The meme or the idea or the the mission to actually strike back in an offensive Uh in a certain way that was going to be effective And so far it has been because it's captured an amazing amount of attention Yeah, it is very positive. Uh, even women have noted that that support us like Janice fee mango the professor from Canada So yeah, it's a good uh, we need weapons that are effective and I think you know moaga Is uh, one of the first ones to come out of it. Yeah, well because you want to have a positive Message there's so many, you know, all these are activist organizations and so forth are Again, motivated by recensing in this negative message and what we need to tear down and uh Yeah, you have to go for a place of creation You know a place of positivity and because that's really I mean, I don't want to fight against something I don't want to fight for something. Yeah, and and so yeah, I mean Because women have you know, like feminism has created a really bad situation for a lot of women And it's it's not good for them. It's not good for men. It's not it's you know Like feminism may be responsible for like a female executive doing well. It's also responsible for tender Uh, you know, it that's all that's kind of hook-up culture and and all these things that are like Where women are kind of treated poorly And and it's It creates a bad reality for them. And I think a lot of women are Seeing that especially now that they're also seeing that they're more vulnerable in to violence and so forth. Yeah, but Yeah, I mean it leaves them lonely old cat ladies. It's broken hearts broken dreams They have no babies they're barren wombs And then it's like it's like suffamol and he says what are they going to do from 40 to 80? When they have no kids and it's like The activists and social justice organizations apparently But uh, I mean because that's they have to find a purpose. I mean and yeah, I've talked about that I did a podcast actually with richard panin recently. Oh, yeah touched on it Uh about like well if you don't have kids Even as a man like how do you find purpose like from 40 to 80? You know, like that's a tricky thing And that's like I said a lot of them get you know sucked into activist causes or whatever because they they're looking for some sense of purpose because unfortunately nature is not fair and their value goes down like as as sexual objects their value goes down pretty rapidly and You know, again life's not fair. I mean, uh, you know, if I could change it and they're like, oh, maybe I'd say Hey, hey, women Many women are going to think each other are hot for like the same amount of time, you know, whatever But that's not how it works and uh, so you you know It creates a situation. Yeah, where they they they're on top of the world for like 10 years And then and you can do whatever they want and and uh, you know Bath or eyelashes they can get whatever they want from a lot of guys And I'm gonna say is a lot of men history thinkers would would uh They would counterclaim to what you just said and that women have a huge sexual market value That's you know, basically free They take care of themselves and they don't you know, they're in shape and stuff when they're young They're between fertility and beauty and youth I mean they're right on top of the world for 10 years 12 years something like that Yeah, and then it's all downhill But the inverse of that of course is for men is that we don't have that when you're 20, uh, you know No one really gives a shit Whereas if you're 34 and you're a millionaire and you're put together and you're single and you've experienced the world Uh, then later in life you ride in high So I think they a lot of the men history would say that things kind of work itself out But women is perceived as not fair because it's not indefinite It's not infinite that they get to be at the top of the pyramid Forever free and and that's a that's a good point. Uh, because yeah Young men have a rough time With that, I mean because you know like man, I mean, I couldn't even wear hats until I was like 35 because I look like a boy I mean, I mean I used to have to photograph myself in a way to make myself look older now that I'm 45 like I don't have to but uh, you know Yeah, men Don't really grow into their looks. I think really until they're much older And uh, you know, women have it, you know, like really from Fairly young age they're like they're kind of at the top of their game in that way And it's basically free. They have to just preserve it men have to build as we say in the monastery Men build their value women preserve their value Exactly exactly because yeah, I mean a man, uh, a man who's accomplished a lot and has a lot to offer Uh, I mean that's something that comes from like, yeah building and life experience Yeah, but from moving off the topic of feminism, um, I did want to ask you You know, one of the most famous slogans of feminists for you know, who knows how many decades now 50 to 100 years Maybe more to smash the patriarchy smash the patriarchy smash the patriarchy In your view, what do they really mean when they say that is it really smash the patriarchy? Is it smash something else like fatherhood or family? Give thoughts on that I mean, that's what that is. I mean the pucker The the the Potter familiar is whatever is that is what patriarchy is based off of the idea that Because I've had to look this up actually recently because I would love to I don't really would it be triggering in that way But I would love to you know, call the main figure the DS put there like the the potter or the you know, patriarchy or whatever um Because that's really this father orientation That we're talking about and that's what they that is what they want to smash They want to fat this father orientation where the the father creates the order within the family He creates and in a bigger sense, you know a father figure creates the order within the world And they want to bring down this father figure um Whether it's metaphorical or real maybe and daddy issues kind of way Uh, but they they want to bring down this father figure and reorient the world around women's values And that's really what it is. It's a shift in values that they want to create by We've had enough of men's values You know for all of history So then we want to re worry at the world around women's values and and that's really what we're doing We're seeing society that you know wants to come for everyone once it loves victim hood like it wants to like make everyone feel better And uh take care of abolish abolish law and order abolish that order that we've created Well, because that's because that's what men do is they create law and order and that's that's that's a fatherly thing to do You know, like that's what men have traditionally done in households like Mom takes care of you. She comforts you. She makes you know, and uh dad Uh imposes order and he you don't always like him for doing it, you know, like But he has to create structure because that's his job and uh That's the job of men Really, you know, I've heard it said that the family is the smallest polity in the world The smallest basically government you can create and then from and then from that like the early americans They they have families that want to protect those families So the family is the father's coming together and create basically government to secure these rights In a way, it's to secure the families to secure the secure smaller political entities they've created Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's that's it is It's a mini it's a mini order Yeah Would you say that I've said this in my speech a couple times and uh, I'll be you know open to say that it was Uh, at least indirectly if not in some ways directly influenced by your work I've said openly a couple times that masculinity built america masculinity built the west Um, do you have thoughts on that? Is that a statement that uh makes sense to you and is it consisting with your work? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, well, it Masculine built everything Let me one up you a little bit here I mean, they're they're Castles and cathedrals and I mean that men built the world I mean, uh, you know, and maybe that isn't fair Maybe, you know, we should have a female architect somewhere at some point, you know, like men did build the world I mean, that's just that's history and that's reality and that's why they wanted to race it But men did build the world because that's what we do build stuff and uh And you know, like the my favorite my favorite feminist writer Is Camille Padilla And I've been reading oh, yeah, I think she's yeah, I think I know she is yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I've been reading her since she I was a kid and uh, you know, she's she's a brilliant woman Brilliant woman and amazing stylist her writing style was fantastic. Um, and I've seen her speak and she's terrifyingly intelligent but uh One of the things she said that she used to have to travel with uh security guards to protect her from feminists Because she said things she said things like, uh, you know, if if women ruled the world We still would be living in grass huts Oh, yeah, and uh, you know, that's kind of a famous quote from her and you know I mean, it's it's not a hundred percent wrong, you know, like and we live in a different world women have different opportunities now and whatever and and uh You know, like women do create things and they do, you know, build companies and do all that kind of stuff I mean, so it's not like they're incapable of doing that um, but history has been where men actually did create the world And they you know, like the old west you use as an example Which is great because uh, the old west is a lot like the really old west um, if you look at all ancient myths and so forth, uh Almost all ancient myths have a lot of like cattle theft Like there's a lot of like cattle rustling and uh cattle theft like uh, heracles did it and and uh Inder did it and it's like the hero is the guy who went and saved the cattle And we got the cattle back. So it's very much like the the really old west But uh, I mean, yeah, the old west. I mean, what did you need to go out into this unknown territory? What you need to go out and create a campfire and and and do everything that we just talked about You can create security in a space that's unknown. Uh, I mean that was yeah Cowboys and and the adventurers and whatever that settled america I mean, obviously they they build it and obviously we have the government and the rights that everyone takes for granted Unfortunately, uh, we're created by men who fought wars You know and and so yeah, I mean absolutely men men did create the reality that we have I mean, uh, whether or not I mean the world is what it is and I can't Change at all or I don't want to I always think it's Negative to say let's go back to how things were because that's not you can't put toothpaste back in the tube You know, it's that's just not how things work. So we're in a different reality now and you know Obviously women are gonna have a part in creating the future Yeah But actually a huge reason why I say make women great again not make women traditional again I like a lot of the elements of traditional femininity so so speak especially You know as it relates to some of the religions how they promote it and things like that But I don't I think we need something more positive even more positive and more secular for all women to embrace Regardless of what career they're born into I want like an american femininity is what I want to create an american femininity The same way we have like an american masculinity that is a little more formalized with guys, you know Like veterans and military and stuff like that I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but no no no no that 100% no I agree with you that Yeah, there has to be some positive vision of where women go in the future that doesn't that isn't like just barefoot and pregnant You know, that's that that's that's that's not an appealing sale to a lot of them, you know Like they're not gonna buy into that So there has to be some positive vision where like women are also Free to work at companies and do things that because there are a lot of women who just maybe wouldn't be good mothers And they don't want to be mothers and they they're not They're not interested in you know what I want to see actually happen when I'm going to speak At the 22 convention to make women great again my speech is actually motherhood first Which I think is a pretty good solution to what you're saying that you know if you look at feminism today They teach women to put motherhood last You know career college blah blah blah blah to you know hook up culture tender get get your brains fucked out for fucking 15 years From 18 to 35 or something Then try to settle down with some beta schmuck and have a kid real quick before you get 40 That doesn't work and I think if and not not not only does this not work You know women are slowly realizing that these millennials and shit Is they're now approaching that the 40 wall and hitting the 35 wall and stuff But I think if you flip that on its head I think it's more biologically sound first of all given fertility and stuff for women at 22 23 all that right health markers But I think women would be a lot happier if they pursued motherhood first And they did pursue careers later in life her businesses or art or book or whatever they want to do right I mean if women do that if women have kids and they're done having kids by You know in their late 20s They can have a career from 36 to 66 or something like 37 to 67, you know 30 years to do something That's a lot of time. Yeah, and I mean obviously in the world where we we also work from home Which has obviously been switched you know right now. I mean that that's more feasible than it ever has been I mean you can have a woman who's actually, uh, you know working on a master's degree while she has kids, you know Like uh or or doing so I think that it's a lot different than it was when feminists first conceived of their reality um But yeah, I mean I mean it's it's it's it's a tricky thing to have a world oriented in two different ways We're like men go get your career women stay You know, that's kind of a strange thing But I mean, uh, I do think that that would be you know better for a lot of them and and the thing is like You know careers are really good. I say this a lot careers, you know, like are very fulfilling for a very small amount of people Like most people hate their jobs And that's one of the things that I don't think feminists really You know, they they were very selfish in that way because a lot of them are very, you know The early feminist theorists or whatever were people who could be very accomplished in, you know, like urban environments Uh, you know, like betty freedin. I mean, I think she was she was mad that her husband was in publishing Well, I could be in publishing. Why is he the only one who could be publishing? You know, but uh, I mean they can do a lot of things, but You bring up an important point though. I mean feminism convinced a couple generations of women to throw out family, uh becoming a wife marriage, you know babies in exchange for a career at starbucks Yeah And that's the thing I there's so many women who got a raw deal with feminism because they don't they would much Rather be who do have kids because you know Like not everyone is on the super feminist past where they never make a mistake or never You know have a one night stay where they end up pregnant or whatever and so then they have kids You have these single mothers and so many of them would much rather be at home with their kids They love their kids and they want to be home with their kids and instead they have to go to these crappy jobs that they hate And and and they lose the time with their kids that they that is what is really important to them And it's such a raw deal. I mean like, okay. Well, you know like feminism gave you a great You know career as a cashier at wal-mart. Good luck. You know, you know It's been a small, you know jet setting crowd of women. It's been fantastic and then for a lot of women it's been yeah, like oh, I don't get to hang out with my kids and You know all the other things you talk about you bring up an important point, too That most people I forget that sometimes I've always run this company my whole life So I've never really had an experience of working anywhere I since I was 17 of doing something I don't want to do And it's hard for me sometimes to envision that and remember that that's how most people live They don't work like you you do what you love, you know, like me and you both Yeah, and most people don't and I forget that sometimes it's important to speak up and then give a voice to that Especially for women who get roped into idiotic bullshit like that. Yeah, I mean, they're very few jobs I mean, I've I've had uh, I worked for 20 years You know before I was able to go out and do what I care about I work 20 years and uh, I mean, I've had I joke about it because it's crazy because I've had like 35 jobs Or something I have I can I have to sit down and do the lists because I where I remember them all But you know, I've worked as a cashier and write aid and like, you know, like done, uh, you know, just Crappy jobs just to live You know, like, you know, I'd like to be a delivery guy You know, so I was a lot of delivery guys, but I've worked in uh, I worked in pr I worked at, you know, kind of corporate life and I've done What do you like a ups driver to or something or FedEx driver? No, no, no, that's that's a good gig. Uh, actually that's hard to get Is the ups driver for a long time now it might not be the same way, but it's their teamsters the ups guy or teamsters and uh They they make you work whatever like the part time shifts for a lot in a lot of areas Which you know, if you're an adult you have to support yourself is not really reality So they get a lot of college kids who you only can work part time and then eventually they can become drivers The drivers actually make pretty good money And yeah, that was my dream aside from the else of the fact for a long time They wouldn't let you have like You could only have a mustache and that was you know, like, but yeah, there's a lot of But no, I drove a delivery truck. I delivered exercise equipment and produce and and uh, you know Gourmet food and stuff like that for a long time and those were cool but yeah, I mean I've done so many I my favorite one I like to say is uh One winter I I did like all the jobs in the mall like the seasonal jobs Like I worked at the halloween store And then then the next then I worked at hickory farms Like it was actually one of the people passing out like like sausage like samples and stuff like that in the middle ball So yeah, all those jobs sucked Like that that sucks Having to do that, but I had to make a living and uh, that's really You know feminism really put women in a pace where they have to go and do crappy jobs Like the way that men always have had to because most most jobs suck I mean, you know dudes were working in coal mines and and uh, you know Just doing whatever they can to to survive and that's what most people have to do in life because there aren't a lot of sexy jobs You know, like not everything is sexy and fulfilling I mean, even you see it with entrepreneurship, and I think this has been a problem in america is that uh You know, we all want to do the sexy job Like I want to be a photographer. I want to be uh run the you know, like an online business or I want to do whatever and uh Who says I want to start a a manufacturing plant to to create rain gutters It's not sexy, you know, like the so a lot of people I think we're trained that we don't want to do the Sexy job, but like in the past, you know a dude was like well, I think that now I could make a good living doing that You know like there's nobody providing rain gutters in this town. I think I could make a good living You know that seems like a good a good gamble and I could make my You know life now that I agree There's definitely been the instagram social media stuff's definitely pushed this they've glamorized like The certain wing of entrepreneurship and everything else is just looked down upon the same way trades are looked down upon Electricians plumbers things like that There's actually a huge demand for it too. You know micro if you know him dirty Oh, yeah, you know totally and I've I've been pushing that I mean I I'd looked into that and it's actually It's another place where like women have kind of been given a leg up Is that uh, if there are so many organizations that you can go to as a woman were like Women in the trades and like they'll give you a you know, they'll basically Tell you how to do everything and if you're a dude and your your dad didn't also work in the plumbers union Man, it's hard to figure out. I mean, I'm not a dumb guy And like I remember because I was looking into stuff like that because I'm like I want to stop working crappy jobs and just have some security And uh, I was looking into the trades at one point. It's they're actually kind of hard to get into Uh, you know, if you don't know what to do. There's not a lot of uh There's not a lot of hand-holding that people do to get you into it, you know And uh, and it's it's a big sacrifice on the upswing You know, I mean It's a big buy-in a lot of it because you have to print us for a long time And and there's there's a lot of things you have to do to to get into those fields And uh, you know, if you're just a regular guy, sometimes they're very It's difficult and but the trades are you know, yeah No matter what happens. Well, I won't say no matter what happens because we're living 2020 but they're um like plumbers I mean, you know, I guess the pundits that's kind of a shitty job, but like the uh Like plumbers, you know, we need plumbers like that's not work. I can do and I don't want to do it and uh There aren't a lot of people who want to do it. And yeah, those guys make good money And uh, it's it's an expertise and and it's it's a decent living And uh, you know, no matter a lot of things can go away a lot of jobs can go away But you know, we're gonna have toilets uh and running water Somebody has to be a plumber, you know, like, you know, a lot of manufacturing could go overseas a lot of other things can go away But like we need plumbers, you know, and and uh, that's it's a good thing to do And yeah, you shouldn't be looked down upon at all I mean, it's a good point too. The job's gonna go away I mean the gig economy has got wiped out all these uber drivers and you know, shit like that gone Yeah, yeah, yeah things can yeah like Chaos yeah, yeah, like things can definitely like, uh, you know Isn't there a popular like a book, uh for managers or whatever like who moved my cheese And I think is the popular like kind of self-help book for business world and that's definitely like what's happened Like, you know, like you set yourself up to do this one thing and then It goes away and that's happened to a lot of industries over time, but still need time You know, like but there and there's a lot of things like that I mean that we're we're still gonna need people to to build things and and and so forth and So yeah, I think that that's Yeah, it's not glamorous But it needs to get done a lot of entrepreneurship too. You mentioned just that earlier In the kind of the the section here. I mean, it's entrepreneurship is rough man Anybody running like a real business, uh, and not some fucking influencer bullshit We're posting pictures of grass with like some protein some soy some whey protein next to it Entrepreneurship stuff man, I mean I've I've done it my whole life. Um, I've always worked the job I want I mean, I did work a couple of like part-time jobs as a kid You know, I saw on tvs at circuit city and seers and shit like that everything. They're all out of business now, of course But I've always built I built my business very young. It was not intended to be a business It turned into one kind of organically And then I've just done that ever since and I don't know how to do anything else I don't want to do anything else. I wanted to keep doing what I want to do And I found myself, of course, like you with this very odd time in history With that's becoming increasingly necessary For a lot of different reasons, but it's tough man. Entrepreneurship is fucking, you know I love the Elon musk's quote from uh, probably two years ago now or something like that He said entrepreneurship is like eating glass And that's been my experience for 14 years now It's fucking hard man. Another one that's good is is uh, and I knew a guy who you know, actually has benefited right now I mean, uh, he was he built an exercise equipment company and they're doing very well Uh, right now, I mean they you everybody's been sold out for months of everything and they can't make extra equipment fast enough, but uh, you know I saw a quote and I sent it to him back in the day and it's something like entrepreneurs entrepreneurship is um Jumping out of a plane and figuring out how to build a parachute on the way down. Yep. Yep. Yeah, exactly exactly, you know And it's and obviously I my business is a little different obviously, you know an author But you know, it's the same thing. I mean, I'm sitting here like should I make patches? Like is that a good way to spend my money? I might as I'm going to lose my ass on that like, you know, like, uh You know, like what service should I use and you start to have to make all these decisions and it's it is tough work Um, yeah, it's it's and you know, like there is a lot of risk involved like oh, I make a bad decision and and Oh, now I'm in debt, you know, like that, you know, that that happens all the time It's adventurous. Yeah, it's a risk. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you've got that happen with like, you know, like the 21 convention It's like, oh We have a convention. Oh wait, Kobe. Uh, you know, like You know, what do you do? I mean, it's really stressful. Yeah, you got to figure it out. Yeah, exactly It's just like exactly. I love that quote you just gave though jumping out of a plane figuring out parachute on the way down Yeah, I mean that that is, you know, it's especially the vents. That's that's what it is too I mean, Kobe is a particularly nasty example. I mean a whole the whole conference industry, the airline industry The hotel industry has got fucking wiped out. Yeah, um, but I'm still kicking, you know going strong kicking ass And but that's that's on me. It's personal responsibility is why it gets done The the entrepreneurs have succeeded the ones to take responsibility And lead and uh, they lean into that matter of, you know, the virtues you talk about strength courage mastery and honor Yeah Yeah, I mean, you I mean, you just have to figure out. Well, how do I want to not have to go get a job at Circuit City or whatever, you know, like how do I not how do I avoid that reality? And then it's you it's on you to figure it out Because you know, otherwise, you know, okay, you just run out of money. I guess I have to get a job I mean, I would like to you know, like how do you stay on top of Bullshit that happens like The article is almost about me in there. They like how do you stay on top of it? Like what happens? You know, if if if something bad happens in that realm gotta keep the dream alive, man Keep the dream alive. Yeah. Yeah, I keep going. Yeah, yeah, like and just find the new way What's the new outlook? How do I stay alive? You know, how do I keep doing what I'm doing and uh, you know survive Yeah Yeah, one of the things uh, I don't think it was yeah I think it was Ivan Throne the speaker we know from the convention And I forget the exact quote, but it was basically just survival is such a huge The the will to survive the desire to survive the fight to survive Um, it's such a like a positive life-affirming thing And that gets lost today in this super comfortable culture, but entrepreneurship is still very real Even before covid, you know businesses, you know, I think by 10 years like over 90 percent of businesses fail Meaning they don't survive they die And that's the thing that's an entity, you know my convention my company is uh It's not a living and breathing thing, but it's like a it's like a baby to me almost like it's something I have to take care of Uh, it doesn't talk it doesn't baby talk, but it doesn't need to be it is it needs to be fed and nurtured and protected and a lot of things like that Yeah, I mean that's that's the struggle with any of this stuff. It's like, uh, it's you have to keep You can't just let it go because it'll go away You know, you can't just stop working, you know, like because it goes away And so yeah, you have to keep producing. I mean I have to do the same thing It's like well, yeah, my books are not going to sell as much So then I have to do what's the next step and what you know, how do I make money and all that kind of stuff? You mean you have to momentum to it momentum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like it's you know, like Like the guy I live with I mean, it's it looks like I'm on vacation to him, you know Because he has a job it's it looks like I'm always on vacation I might be doing something or sending some email or whatever 1030 at night Because that's what needs to get done, you know, and and I can make it look like vacation But if I don't do anything for six or eight months It's gonna start going down, you know So I need to like stay on top of stuff and look for the next thing Yep Well, so sorry, let's round out and kind of finish off the conversation for today It's been about an hour and 46 last topic. We'll discuss very briefly Uh, you know, we've mentioned it a little bit throughout the show, but not too much civil war Yeah, what do you think? What do you think the likelihood of civil war is in america? I don't like no let's talk about civil war Uh What the likelihood of it? I mean Man, if you would ask me six months ago, I would have been like That's not gonna happen, you know, like I've kind of You talk about entrepreneurship like put your eggs in a basket Uh, and and you know, I definitely was banking on things continuing pretty much as they are I mean that when I was younger, you know, like when I first started writing away a man Whatever I was like this thing needs to fall apart, you know It needs to fall apart and and be put back together again And uh, you know, then you know, like I was doing better in life and I was like, well, I you know like Let's assume that it isn't going to let's just plan for the future as if it isn't going to fall apart and now Man, I don't know It's you know, like I said, like I said, I don't really want to live through civil war. I'm not excited about it Uh, you know, it it doesn't end well for most of us and uh, you know, it's it's a It's a brutal reality. Yeah. Um, and uh, but I do think that You know, there's certain things that you know, and you know, I always have to preface this because I don't know You know, like high fbi, uh, I Like I'm not starting the revolution. It's not me. I'm not doing it. Uh, but I'm not that guy I'm not a general. Uh, I don't have that skill set But man, you know Lockdown number two You have my blessing guys get it started You know, like because we can't do this again, you know, like this this is not how you run a country, you know And like I said the the things about our eroding freedoms and so forth Uh, you know, it's like how how far is too far? I don't want to be a slave Uh, I want to be a surf. Uh, you know, it's like, uh, I think There's a Or you know, it's like if they if they do a hard put miscalculation on guns like we talked about earlier, you know Once that starts it's not going to stop, you know You start you go you go to a couple red necks houses and try and pick up guns and then and a lot of cops get shot And then that touches stuff off Uh, these are these are really good ways to put it. I love the points you're making here So lock down number two or a gun confiscation both of which are slippery slope. Uh, most people are skeptical of this But I believe there's slippery slopes to genocide I mean every totalitarian regime in history wants to confiscate for example weapons from people and to disarm them Make them vulnerable and easy to kill easy to round up easy to gas easy to shoot easy to hang easy to starve vaccinate You know and uh Yeah, I mean it all these things are on the table in a way that they haven't been in my lifetime And in a way that you know, like I said, I really want things to to work out It's a positive. Uh, you know, like I would love to see a sweep of people getting into politics and you're seeing that you're seeing A lot of guys who have the right skill sets, uh getting involved in politics and stuff right now Who are more freedom oriented and so forth and and I think you look at it look at it from um People criticize obviously trump's a super controversial figure, but I agree with what you're saying You're seeing these people get into politics that are more liberty oriented things like that Constitution declaration independence those kind of ideals But also from an attitude perspective, we see guys like trump leading the charge For being aggressive being uh offensive not being politically correct And you know, I don't agree with everything trump does but I love in terms of policy and stuff But I love his attitude and he's he calls the teaching him how to win and he is you have to be fucking assertive You have to be aggressive to make fun of them Uh, just just openly mock people hate you and they want you to die and they want to abolish everything you stand for At minimum you need to make fun of them. There's a ridicule or shit out of them, you know, and he's taught people how to do that I've learned that from him. Oh, yeah, I mean he's he's he's he's he's really good at that In a tropical way that I think only he can do but uh, I mean, uh, you know Like you could definitely learn a lot from the way he handles problems And I think a lot of people Uh a big problem like, you know, if it's cancel culture and all this kind of people get real scared And uh, and they start apologizing and bowing down and and doing all this stuff and that is the wrong way Yeah, that's the wrong way to handle it most of the time you wait it out And uh, you're just like don't respond or to wait it out or handle it better and he's I think he's definitely helped people realize that What's happening in the moment isn't necessarily the big picture Yeah, you know and so that to not be afraid of every little thing that comes up or Everything a little thing that you're accused of or whatever because it's not Who you are. I mean Yeah, I mean I had a guy a good friend of mine actually I was talking about that that article or whatever that came out or whatever and uh, he was like, you know Keep doing the right thing the right people will know it And uh, you know, because you know, I'm just trying to do good stuff and I think that if I just keep doing that You know, that's that's who I want to be you know Final question, I guess is what do you think is going to happen independent of who wins? Like how do you think november 4th is going to go down the day after the election? Because I I mean from the guys I talked to a lot of speakers that you and I both know my own personal opinion It's like I don't see how november 4th the day after election Is peaceful no matter what happens like I don't see a road to the it's it's not possible They'll be peaceful, but it seems like very very unlikely Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's you know, like man 2020 is going to be crazy Uh, the I mean yeah Like everything's doing this thing right now and then you're gonna have the election craziness and then like after the election Yeah, I mean there's gonna be riots Yeah, I mean like I said no matter what happens. I mean, uh And and then it's just a matter of who's in charge of dealing with the riots Uh, and uh, what they what the response is and who knows maybe that touches off the civil war You know like on either side, you know like what what what happens, you know like, uh, you know if the You know, let's say biden by some chance, you know, it magically becomes president, uh, you know, let's say and then like Does some hard moves Like in gun conversation or or or in putting things down and in you know, like let's force everyone to wear masks Or let's force everyone to do this or that Uh, and people aren't gonna take it anymore and he'll misstep and like is that going to be the thing Yeah, or if you know the same thing like if if trump wins then you're gonna have Uh, more of the riots right now You know what more of what just happened is going to be more of the same And who knows if some response comes from that That, uh, is really yeah, you know, whether that touches something off, you know, like if they if they go and burn their own person's house down, you know, like that's What comes from that? So yeah, it's just real it's real hard to plan man It's real hard to plan right now So your advice to the guys of course individually would be to prep prep prep prep This is like pierce and georgia talks about, you know our friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean be prepared I mean, that's what I've been saying lately. I mean like as you said the way of man and everything has just gotten real real Yeah It's like a movie on tv all day. Yeah. Yeah, I mean things have got real I mean, this is how reality is working out and a lot of things I said I mean, I wish I would have taken myself more seriously, you know, like, uh, a lot of things that I've said I mean, yeah, now's your window because things could get real bad in the next six to eight months And so you're you're freer now than you have been go out and uh go out and find reach out to guys and uh reach out to guys around you people who you could depend on people who are better than you at things And uh, you know, if you if you can get some skills if you just bought a firearm like a lot of people just did Uh, you know, you better take some classes and learn how to use them while you have the window open You know like uh now's the time for all this stuff. It has to be prioritized And you know, it's like I have stuff to do this week But I've like a guy that I've had lunch with a couple times in town because he was actually a reader of mine who recognized me randomly in town and uh, and so I've been like, hey, I'm having lunch with you and then he hit me up yesterday and I'm like, I have a busy week but Prioritizing okay, I'm having lunch with him again this week, you know like you got to keep reaching out and make all those connections with all those guys because They could be your lifeline or just you know, it's it's good. Anyway, you know, but it's good to have friends But it's good, you know, you need people to Be in a situation because you know it might might need to defend something someday It's good to have fire insurance, you know, even if your house doesn't or flood insurance You know the hurricane may not come this year, but it's good to have it You don't have you don't have insurance because it's going to burn down You have insurance because it might and the probability of things higher than ever right now That seems to be the consensus among the guys that we know Yeah, yeah, I mean it's time to time to get skill sets and get get make connections and do everything you can and you know Like make connections in your local community because that's really what matters We're so focused. I mean you and I both what we do for a living like we're so focused on like Oh, I have a really good friend over here. I really heard from there. We're all around the world, right? But That's not gonna help you when it goes down. You know, like that's you need people around you locally who you know are Dependable and also, you know, it'd be good to know the cops, you know, it'd be good to know the police. It'd be good to know the You know, the the people We're you know producing things, you know locally and to support, you know local businesses to the extent that you can Yeah, all the build build relationships with people because that's They're they're the people you're in it with We're really like it or not, you know, those are the people around you are the people who you're gonna have to deal with If things get bad Yeah, this is my attitude to past few months this whole year really has been stepping up my game for firearms How many I own, you know, I'm training with I consistently am training stocking up on different stuff You know food water all the ammo all these things. I'm glad I was prepped as I was I got into prepping, you know Like piero is uh, you know famous for and as an author I got into that about 10 years ago. Thankfully And it kind of feels like, you know, kind of calmed down from here over the recent years But now this year it's really picked up again to go. Yeah. I know what I need to do I know what I need to train. I know I need to train more often And I've actually been going I've been you know, pretty happy with that I've been going through that more consistently and I agree with you a hundred percent It's it's the people, you know, locally that are going to be that are going to count Not my friends, you know across the country or in another fucking country, you know Other prepper I know and you're up great, you know, what does that can help me when the shit's in the fan here When the looters are, you know, running on the street with baseball bats Yeah Well, jack, it's been a it's been a great conversation, man. I really appreciate your time Yeah So where can people find you on instagram and website? Um The handle I use for everything is start the world So i'm on instagram My website is jackdashjohnavin.com. Uh, like I said, I'm on uh parlay now At start the world. I believe is the handle there and uh, you know, obviously also youtube Uh, you know, I have a lot of videos now and I put my podcast up on youtube So and and I'm supposed to have you as a guest on here not too not too long from now. Hopefully Let's do it. Let's do it. Fuck. Yeah All right Well, jack, appreciate your time everyone watching appreciate you tuning in live Make sure you hit the like button the share button leave a comment It helps the video and the speaker here jack Also, make sure you pick up its books including more complete beast the way of men and becoming a barbarian on amazon They're uh, both on amazon.com link in the description and his website Like you said is jackdashjohnavin.com Link in the description. I'll see you guys Uh, probably not next saturday. We're gonna take a hiatus for the fourth of july weekend But the week after that we'll have another special guest on Appreciate your time peace out. Thank you jack. All right, man. See you later