 So great Vinod, great catching up to you after long. You know that I would like to go back in time and probably look at the entire journey which you have had in so to say I mean in the banking career as well because I knew you made the switch from banking to venture debt so I mean in terms of a career progression also I know it can be something like a valuable lesson for our audience so if you could just go back in time and let us know how would the transition happen for you? Sure, it's an interesting question. I haven't thought about that for some time so I've been doing I've been working for 20 years now. I actually started my career as a brand manager in Ice-Casey at the Bank. I was actually into marketing so I wanted to do a lot more in the branding and marketing space so I spent about three three and a half years in Ice-Casey Bank but I had the opportunity to switch between different roles and spend some time in branding in the rural business team where I actually ended up learning a lot about real India, about its story and this was way back in 2004 and moved to corporate banking mainly to get over my fear and ignorance of finance. So while I had that when we came over, I never did any courses in finance and realised that it's not something that is terrible. So in 2006 I actually moved to Citibank and there I joined the corporate banking team. I was managing large corporates in auto health care and consumer as well as media so it was an interesting set of companies that I was kind of managing in terms of relationships but this was still conventional banking so Ice-Casey gave me a little bit of breadth in terms of different kinds of roles. Citibank was a very sophisticated bank and you have a cross border flavour to the transactions that we do but it was still the conventional one. So in 2008 and a lot of across my journey has been serendipitous I would say. I had actually agreed to move to Chennai as part of the corporate banking team in the summer of 2008. This was pre-leam and it was a different time in banking and on the 24th of July 2008 because that used to be the 55 password, Silicon Valley Bank got its NBFC license. Two more weeks and I would have moved to Chennai and then it got into a different situation altogether but because it happened at that point I had the good fortune to actually join SPP and as part of the founding team for the India business. Now when I left Citibank, everybody only thought you know it was such a bizarre move like who leaves Citibank. In about three months time it turned out to be the best decision of my life because the entire conventional financial world was in turmoil and I spent some time in the Bay Area. SVB was well capitalised in India. It was newly minted NBFC and we basically had a license to hunt and kind of grow the book here. So that phase was the next six years and you asked that question earlier what the transition felt like. So if you look at the conventional world of debt, a lot of it comes down to just understanding assets, the vintage of businesses, big promoter groups, the larger the better. People have done this for decades and then you look at startups and it's the exact opposite. So it took some time I would say. It took a lot of under learning and re-learning but at the heart of it I think the aspect which fascinated me was concept of entrepreneurship. I mean I always wanted to at some level do something on my own. I didn't have an idea. I didn't know what it was that I wanted to do. So I kept learning and learning and learning and you know venture net for me was one more avenue to explore the entrepreneurial bug. And it was also puzzles that looked impossible to solve. How do you provide debt to a company which is inherently non-profitable, low assets, no vintage, you don't have promoters but founders. So it went against the green of everything that conventional debts could solve and so felt and that's kind of my personality as well. I just like puzzles and the more difficult the puzzle the better. So that was a trigger as well. And you know I mean the best of startups you have worked with and supported throughout. At what stage do you think they would come to you to look for venture debt financing? So there's a lot of things working. I think there have been a lot of learnings along the way on business building and the markers around success. You know say a casino brand or a media platform or a fintech you know lending engine being able to benchmark that over cycles has been quite useful. The fact that you know I was still doing this six years ago, nine years ago, 12 years ago allows for some benchmarking across you know different cycles and saying you know what happened at different points of time and some it just helps in having some early warning signals. That early warning signal I think has helped both founders and us in avoiding a lot of issues. At the end of the day I think it's good intent, hard execution, you know being there, rolling a procedure that the founders do right and our role is a little bit on the on the pill free I would say. But sometimes it's just about calling an alarm bell a little bit earlier or in guiding founders through you know what has happened before and that kind of context helps in avoiding certain problems. So considerable learnings and I think it's every day and it's a constant process I would say. I mean and also just to simplify things for I mean since many of our viewers of course would want to understand better in terms of whether they want to go for equity financing or they want to go for debt financing. Can you simplify the two for our viewers? If you build good quality businesses driven by good quality revenues and a strong gross margin not spending too much on marketing everything falls into place and that should be our objective. And I mean lastly a piece of advice from you to I mean founders who are seeking financing in current times. See this is not an easy market to raise capital but those are also the opportunities where strong execution comes through. So we have seen this in the last 12-18 months when there's been 12 months at least there's been a bit of a funding pullback in some sense but we've also seen amazing companies actually break through and get started understand. So it's not ideas are happening. There is capital waiting to go into deserving companies be it equity or debt. We have our highest velocity ever right now and actually when equity investors velocities come back right. So I would say to founders one is focus on execution for young companies prove out PMF focus on unit economics and ensure that the story stacks up right and then focus on scheme you know not to put the card before the horse. For growth stage entrepreneurs I think they need to have more resilience you know prepare for longer time frames where fundraising takes time they've already got reasonably sized scale businesses then you need to have more options create more avenues in terms of capital solutions ensure that the business has many there's many doors that are opening up for the business in terms of capital right. It's going to take time to raise money I think that's true for almost all companies right now but this is also the time that differentiation is easily visible. So on that positive note I'll conclude the conversation thank you so much for taking out time with us and talking to us at Entrepreneur Media today. My pleasure Beda and thank you for giving me this opportunity and look forward to doing more with you and your team. Sure thank you.