 Hello, hello, and thank you all. Hi, James, we're sure glad that you made it. We're all here now this week. We've got Marion over to my side here. We've been working just furiously on her week, and we're going to show her discoveries in a few minutes. Below her is her incredible captain, Emma Macbeth, keeping people going this week, and keeping those resources up, and then, of course, James Tanner, who I'll be introducing at the end. So, first quickly, I want to go ahead and just say for anybody that doesn't know what we are, now, WikiTree is a community of genealogists who are working together on a single family tree. So, in other words, we collaborate to grow an accurate and global tree that connects us all, and it's free. Now, the WikiTree Challenge has been our year-long event and part of our year of accuracy, where each week a team of WikiTreeers takes on a guest star's branches, and we collaborate to make it more accurate and complete here than it is anywhere else. Now, our goal, of course, is to improve the accuracy on WikiTree, make more family connections, and make more friends, and we have definitely done all three of those this year. Once again this week, we worked on the branches of Marion Burkewood, and so I'm going to hand things over to Emma so she can go ahead and tell you what we found. Straight to me, okay. First, I want to just give a big shout out to my team. This was definitely a tough week. We were working in Eastern Europe, and those records are difficult to come by. They're usually not indexed. If we can find the right records for the area that we're looking for, then we have the language barrier. They're often in multiple different languages. The countries were often owned by different people, different countries at the time, and that switches back and forth with means of languages which is that before. So lots of challenges, and I was really proud of team members who just dug in and worked with records that maybe they'd never seen before. They were asking for help with language translation and was absolutely amazing. And I even saw some sources I'd never heard of. The candle tax, Mindy, wasn't that one that you brought to our attention? What country was it? Yes. We were talking about the candle and the box tax in Lithuania. Lithuania. And, right. And what was that? Well, basically really what they were is they were two taxes that were set specifically for the Jewish population. And so the candle tax is what they taxed all Jewish people and they used the money for the school, for the children's education. And their reasoning was they used candles on the Sabbath. So therefore they had to pay a tax on them. And then of course we had the box tax. And that one was a little bit harder to get information about as far as how they were actually collecting that. But that was another Jewish tax. And what they did is they taxed them on kosher meat. And I just wanted to bring that up because it's so interesting. These aren't things you normally would think of when looking for genealogy records. And it goes to prove that you can find information about people just about anywhere if you just keep digging into the available records. So let's start with the reveal. Solomon Elias Burke line. Let me look at the tree while I'm talking about this was born 1845, living in the, I can't pronounce that, but Lithuania and was born 1901. And the record was it the birth record that was found, Mindy, that had his father's name. That actually was a population census record. Okay. Population census record that showed that his father's name was Meyer. So we were able to add an additional generation onto the Burke line. Yeah. And I found it really, well, interesting, but sad. And of course we came across several things that were just kind of heart crushing while you're looking and Mary and I know you already know this, but they were talking about when the country was overtaken and how the records, they tried to flee with some of them. And so some of the Jewish records are in Russia now or other places. And the ones that were behind no longer had caretakers. And not only that, but they went through a paper shortage. And so this is horrifying as a genealogist, they were taking these vital records and they were using the paper to start fires. Right? And so things like this 1901 census are some of the few ways now you can actually go in and reconstruct these family records. Just incredible. That's unbelievable to even think of them doing that. Okay, so we were hoping to find documentation to prove that Nex made a name with Shuham. It was supposed to be on the Social Security documents, but we couldn't find that. So we were unable to prove whether she was related to Anna Hinda, my top mythic. I'm gonna be butchering names all evening. And this was the story, I guess, that was in the blog article, A Tale of Two Sisters. And it would have been nice to figure out how they were related, but we tried, we tried, we tried. And that wasn't... That hurts, gonna keep floating by. Yeah, Emma and her team, I mean, Emma and her team, they just spent countless hours on this stuff. And every time you peek in, they're like still honed in on what they're trying to locate. Yeah, every time we, you can imagine, every time something new popped up, my tiered. We did find a death certificate from Meyer Mahler, which is, oh, that's a beautiful document. It's supported that he was a tailor, which we thought we already knew. And there's the evidence of it on the death record. His birthplace was listed as Kovno Russia. His father was said to have been born in Riga, Russian, Russian empire, and his mother also in the same place. So maybe that will give some additional clues for that next generation of where to look. And I think there's a lot more records available for the Riga area. It doesn't seem to be as, you know, destroyed as some of the other ones that people looked in. Okay, the Jacob's line. Look on the tree here, see where we're at. There we are. Okay, didn't find anything new about Tilly Rose Jacobs Mahler. Her birthplace was either Riga or Latvia. She married Meyer Mahler. Meyer Mahler, Taylor. Tongue twister. And I know that came to New York, and she and Meyer had at least nine children and lost two at a young age. Wolf at age three and then Sundell at one day old. And Tilly was then widowed at age 50. However, records were found for her brother, Joseph Jacobs, who married Eva Michalowski. In 1900, they lived next door, which you can see right there in that image. They lived next door to Tilly along with three of their five children. And Joe was a peddler and he lived to the age 54 and died in New York City. Okay, let's see. Moving on to Shorts. Okay, here we go. We were not able to prove siblings for Herman. Is that Yehuda? Terrible. Thank you. I know we worked a lot on this, looking at lots of records, trying to sift through, trying to prove who do these records belong to the person we're looking for or are they somebody completely different? So when it says extensive research, that's what we were doing. Looking through all the records for the area, all the records for anyone with similar names. Thank you, John. And so as much as possible, anytime we sifted through records, we tried to leave breadcrumbs for you in research notes on the profiles. So we would say, okay, we looked here, didn't find this or we proved this record wasn't part of this family. So keep a lookout for those research notes. Okay, moving on to the Farkas line. Did a lot of work on this line too. Kathy Evans started a space page for you. That's basically a one-name study of, we were looking at all the Farkas's we possibly could. And so she has Farkas's listed from the Bot Pallad area and the records that are for those different people. So that might again be breadcrumbs. These people may be related in some way. These clues are so wonderful. I'm gonna follow up. I really appreciate it. Never know what that one tiny little clue is that will get you to that next piece of information. Okay, so we're still on the Farkas line. Yes, we were definitely puzzled, puzzled, puzzled on Moritz. And lots, and you know also with Jewish names, you can find people under different versions of their name, which can be very challenging. And we kept going back and forth. Wait a minute, is this the same person? We're seeing different names here. His tombstone said his father was Yehuda, but we got looked at his death record and his father was Fred, or friends. And so I think we decided those were the same person, right, Mindy? Yes, yes, we did. Okay, and based on that, we were able to also prove that Simon was his brother. So we were able to fit some puzzle pieces together based on finally figuring out that these were actually the same person that we were looking at. Simon is a new name for my tree, folks. Yeah. Oh, yay. We like the new word, woohoo. Yes, we were trying to find siblings as much as possible, new siblings out there on the tree, because those often can lead to, and you're gonna see later how it was a sibling that gave us some information. Oh, and it's on this line, as a matter of fact. Moving down to the counselor line. So this was in Hungary, and you've done a lot of research on that, but we were able to find some new information on her sister, let's see, this is Lenny, okay? Her sister, Sarah, who married Bernath Roth, a handler, and had seven children. Three of those children died young and at least two grew up and got married, and we have birth and death records for them. Wonderful. So there's a list of the children there on that page, and it links to all the different records. This is wonderful because I know my cousin who was named after Sarah, counselor Zolly was her name, and I have a cousin whose name, middle name is Zolly, after her, so I can't wait to tell her. Yay. That's very exciting. Woohoo. Okay, Lenny's brother, Joseph, counselor was also researched, and he and his wife, Helen Schoenfeld had five children. Joseph lived to the age of 65, well after his children had reached adulthood, and there's a list of his five children which are on his profile with the documents. That's awesome. And I know we were talking, Mary, and before we came on the air about, you know, the fact that you get to work sideways now when you do your own research because you are connected to the global tree, which will help. Yes, that's great. But also with these, you know, these additional siblings and their children where you had talked about like the wife's family and different families that you know were all related in here somewhere, you're gonna see some of those names popping up. So definitely lots to look at. Okay, breaking news. Yes, this is our 11th hour exciting, like, oh my gosh, this happened right like two hours ago. It was so very exciting. And again, it was because we were looking at siblings that we were able to find, let me look at the tree again. We're on Samuel or Schmell, I don't know how to pronounce that. Consular, we were looking at a brother. Was it a marriage record? I feel like it was a marriage record where it listed the parents. It does, yes. And we were able to find the parents for Samuel and those have been added to the tree just like an hour ago. So that was so exciting. Emma, that takes us way back into the early 1800s now, the earliest I have in my tree. Yes, this is the oldest. You now have third grade grandparents on your tree for the first time. That is very, very, very exciting. Thank you to Jackie who was helping us. Was it the Hungarian records she was working through? She just went, you know, every time you turn around she was picking another village. And for some of us that were researching, you know, we were doing what we could because we could read the records. But without the geography that goes with it, you know, and she would know, oh, this village makes sense. I'll look in this one. And so she just sat there and paged through record after record in these villages looking for stuff. You know, and of course, we had Louis Kessler this week. Thank you very much, Louis, to ask questions of if people had, yeah, there was a heart. If people had questions about the names or how things should be formatted. And I know after we got that exciting news from Jackie, he was working on adding that new person. So you'll be able to go and see his children and his family after this. It was very, very exciting. And there may be more information, but because this was so brand new that we just barely have touched that information. So it's worth digging into and seeing how much more can now be found. Hopefully more new cousins. Yay, on that section of the tree. I know, which is what we like. And this was so last minute. I mean, this was your brick wall chart. And just to show people the, you know, this is extensive amount of research that Marion had done. And, sorry, my mouse was not listening to me. And, you know, and so some trees, you know, we've been able to get in there and get back to the ninth, 10th generation, you know, but with the destruction of those records and it being so sparse, you know, certain time periods only that you can find things. It is definitely so, so much harder to work on like the Lithuanian and the Hungarian lines. And so, you know, we could only take it out so far, but doing her wiki tree branches now, which should be really, really complete. And then I know Marion's excited about going in and fleshing out her grandparents and the people that are closer to her. But as far as the other ones building out, those profiles are beautiful. Once again, you have some really great notes from, you know, everybody that worked on it this week. If they didn't find something new, hopefully you can with a, you know, laundry list of sources and whatnot that we have checked. And, you know, and then you'll definitely want to check out the space page. Once again, if we would have had two weeks for this, we probably would have had a few more one-name studies going, like, you know, we would have added the shorts to that and we would have added a few more. But definitely a lot of fun. Jackie's pointing out it is definitely a real work of collaboration and of course it is. You know, we have people that are reading the records, but we also have people that are helping in other ways that don't get the mention. And I'll tell you what, everybody that went in and did anything on this tree this week, I'm just so proud of you guys. You did a fabulous job. You did a fabulous job. I'm so impressed. You took me back a generation. You also helped me laterally. And any research notes that you left from me are going to be things I can follow up on and build on. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the head start you gave me on in 2022, taking my work in progress and taking it to the next level. And also, Mindy touched on this, but we got you connected to the global tree. So I don't know if you know what that means, but now you can go to any profile anywhere on Wikitree and click at the link at the bottom and see how you were related to them. So that's a very exciting feature that Wikitree has. That is, we love our connections and we love our relationships too. So everybody was waiting for it to refresh that we could check and go, oh, okay, we would connect through this line. And now I've got it. We like our cool tools at Wikitree. Our people work really hard to give us some really neat apps and widgets and things that we can work with and work on our family. But that's just one of the smaller perks that we have a little fun with. So yeah, you'll get to use those now. And if you have any questions that I'll definitely reach out, we can help you learn how to use those. Thank you so much. I cannot tell you what this means to me. It's just a gift. Thank you all for working so hard on my tree. And it was our honor. We kind of invite ourselves into people's lives when we do this, when we come in and we play with our ancestors' branches. But to me, it was just such a beautiful gift to be able to give to somebody else. We all work together anyways, on different projects and different things that we do and we see each other around the Wikitree branches all over the place. But this has been just a really eye-opening experience this year. And it's been wonderful to give this gift to our guests. Thank you. Okay, so now I get to talk a little bit about the points and how we work things here. Collaboration, of course, once again, is key during the challenge. And that's what Wikitree is all about. And so that makes sense. Now, one of the ways that we collaborate is to use a spreadsheet that you see on the left, that when you get 25, 35 people working on the same branches. And trust me, we had quite a few this week and it was even harder because we were starting from such a small base. You really wanna say, hey, I'm working on this one so somebody else isn't researching the same exact thing or so that you're collaborating if they are. One of the other ways is to use our G2G forum, which is our genealogist genealogist forum. We post announcements in there, we ask for help. We put questions. We go ahead and do a post for each guest and you'll get a link to that, Marianne. And that shows questions that somebody had or if they say, hey, I found this, does anybody know anything about it? Just different things we can do. And normally that is where we post our brick walls that are down. I'm not sure if the last edition got posted on there, hopefully so. And then the third way is Discord. And I tell you, we need that. We really do. We have loved the move over to Discord as a platform for our live chat. And we are a global site. So we have people all over the world that come in and work on these challenges. And at any time of day or night, there's somebody, you know, if I wake up early and it's four a.m. here, somebody, people have already been working for hours somewhere and they're like, yeah, Mindy, this is what we're doing. You know, and we ask for translation help in there. Second set of eyes for a record. Here we did a lot of small grouping up and said, you know, hey, this is what we're trying to find. You know, the park is lying in this area and everybody can take a different set of records and we can just sit there and go through them. You know, and sometimes also just cheering each other on, you know, people pop in and go, hey, great job. And it makes you feel like, you know, somebody's aware that you're doing a good job and you're still working on things. So it's all important. And everybody plays their part in it. And well, it's not about points. We do use a point system to keep people motivated and it kind of keeps you aware of your progress. Now, there's two ways to earn points during the week. We have the large one, which is the bounty points and that's 10 points for the first new ancestor or corrected ancestor that we reach on each branch. The second way is the individual points for adding children. And those can normally add up. And with your week, of course, you know, we didn't have as many people to add, but let me tell you, people already felt a sense of accomplishment. Like Emma said, every time, you know, somebody would find something, everybody was like, hooray, yeah. You know, knowing just how difficult it would be to find one new piece of information. And so we do, though, look at the scores at the end of the week. And the person with the top score is our MVP, most valuable player. We also like to acknowledge the top five participants. And so here is what we had for this week. Now, Cheryl Hess was our MVP because she was the only one with bounty points for most of the week. And so actually Jackie should be up there, but she hadn't signed up. Like I said, she did this out of the goodness of her heart, which, you know, yeah, wiki tree, that is what we do. We, you know, those of us in the different projects, we volunteer our time and our passion, you know, to get things done. We had Melanie McComb, which really nice in there. She's a prior guest and Deb Johnston and then Tommy Buck. And so kind of a different mix on our top five this week than what we usually have. And then I am going to go ahead and show the score sheet. And I think that's, let's see if we can go in just a little bit. And that's where you can see, you know, there isn't necessarily like really big scores this week, but once again, if we got one point, we were ecstatic. You know, if we got zero points cause we found out something on a sibling, we were just over the moon. So it was really a lot of fun, but this is how we break the points down. Now total points is everything that person got. And so Cheryl has 11 points this week. Go Cheryl. And then we do created ancestors. So you had a total of 10 direct ancestors created over and above what you already had on your branches. So for us, that was really huge created relatives. Now it says one, but that's because we don't count like the siblings and this, you know, and their kids and stuff like that. We still want to work on them cause we want your tree to be complete, but we don't get points for that. And then the bounty point should actually be at 30. That would be, you know, 10 for the first one that we found Meyer as the father. And then of course the 20 points for Samuel's parents. So that should have been 30. Now profiles edited and keeping in mind once again that we're out of a small selected area, 155 unique profiles edited, that's a big number. You know, that really is. And then of course we had 382 edits. So every time somebody went in and fixed a date, they added a source, they did something, you know, they got the contribution showed up. And Chris here is saying, Chris F, I got a modest seven points, LOL. You know what, it definitely wasn't about the points. It was about the, you know, the information that we could find and give to Marion. So I don't think any of us were worried about points this time. Okay, and then if we don't have any other questions, yeah, and Chris says quality over quantity and definitely, you know, we want that quality to be there. We want those profiles to be complete. We want them to be accurate. You know, if there was it anyway possible for us to link those documents on the profile out to the sources, then of course we did that. And also, you know, if we could actually upload it without violating any copyright laws, we do that too. So, you know, one way or the other, you know, you'll be able to get these. And if there's something you really can't find that we came up with, just let me or Emma know, and you know, and we'll make sure we can get that to you. Cause I know, you know, you're gonna want those for your family books. Thank you so much. You folks worked really, really hard. I can see it. I appreciate everything. And the brick wall isn't everything. It's making the tree more complete and more accurate that you have done for me. Thank you. Okay, we need the heart one more time there, Marianne. There you go, everybody. That's what Marianne's love. Cause you guys were incredible. You just were incredible. Okay, and next we're gonna go ahead and talk a little bit about James Tanner. And he is not only our guest this week, but he is our final guest for the 2021 wiki tree challenge. So it kind of just stuns you that we're actually at the end of this, doesn't it, Emma? I mean, it feels like we just started this yesterday. I know, and then here we're going, wow, we've done that many guests that we actually hit the end just crazy. And so here we have Mr. Tanner and he has degrees in Spanish and linguistics, a law degree and 39 years experience as an Arizona trial attorney. He's an avid blogger of genealogy star. He spent 17 years as a family history volunteer, board of directors of the Family History Guide Association and presents at expos and conferences. And I'm sure there's much more that I'm missing, James. Is there anything important that I've left out of that? Well, I have 34 grandchildren and a nice wife. Oh, my goodness, that's important too. You got me way beat. I've only got 11 so far. I got a ways to go. So that's probably the one thing. And you know, and it looks like you just fit right in with all the rest of us there at Wikitree. You've done some volunteer time and you like to make sure that people get information about how to do things better. So what actually got you interested in genealogy? Well, my family, probably my relatives, great grandmothers and other relatives have probably been involved in doing family history research for over 100 years, probably 120 or more years. And it wasn't like I was really interested. I just knew it was there all the time because we had surname books, whole books full of information about our family. And we were, but I had been told constantly, I guess kind of a background thing is, oh, well grandma did all this work everything's been done. You can, you don't have to worry about all that, all your genealogy's been done. And I had an occasion where I was involved in, let's say a challenge to get my, to get some additional basic information about my family. And as a result of that, I ended up finding out that no, it wasn't all done. As a matter of fact, I was, I guess a little bit decided to get a little bit aggravated that I'd been told all my life that this was all done and it wasn't. And so I just started in, never stopped. I'm still going after, this has been going almost 40 years now, but I've been. And there's definitely no end to genealogy. We are always working on our ancestors and trying to discover new things. Now, if you had to pick one favorite, who would you pick? Favorite ancestor? Well, the one that I've always known, that I know the most about and never met and it was Henry Martin Tanner. And he lived in a little town in Northern Arizona called Joseph City. And he was a pioneer. He was, he and his wife, right after they got first married were called as volunteer missionaries, as missionaries to go down and settle along the, what's called the little Colorado river in Northern Arizona. And it's probably the most desolate, most uninviting place you could ever go. And they lived there for the rest of their lives. And really only left a few times. I mean, they made a few trips around, but other than that, they stayed there and lived and they had, it was during the time when the members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy and he had two wives and he had 17 children. Wow. And out of that are some of the most influential and some of them, in fact, the largest employment corporation in Arizona was owned by his grandson's. So out of living in the desert out there in the desert, all of the children all became judges and lawyers and doctors and heads of corporations. So it was kind of an incredible person. So, yeah. Now, what kind of interesting stories have you found out about your family? Oh, a lot of interesting stories about my family. I don't know, where would you start with all of the stories that there are? They're just, they were, you know, I guess a lot of people are motivated by the fact that they think they're going to connect to royalty or they're gonna connect to a famous person or whatever. The more I did, the more I figured out well, everybody I'd ever been descended from was poor and nearly destitute. I think one of the most interesting stories is one of my great-great-grandfather and some of the other people who were, some of my other lines, I have two lines, but two of my family lines that go to where the people came through Australia. And I think that's to me the most, some of the most interesting part. Probably the most one interesting story is that the family who came, they left England and came to Australia. They weren't transported, they weren't criminals. What happened at that period of time is that the parishes, and this was in Huntingtonshire in England, the parishes were really kind of too tight-walled to have poor houses. So they didn't like the idea. And they had passed a law in England allowing for families to be transported. They were encouraging families, well, encouraging them saying, well, if you don't go, you're gonna start to death. But that was kind of their encouragement. But what they said was they needed people in Australia because they were trying to consolidate their hold over the continent in the British Empire. So they actually paid the way of the whole family to go to Australia. And the interesting thing is that they were non-conformist, meaning they were not members of the Church of England, but they all had to be baptized before they would send them to England. So we find the families, those families that went, all of the children were baptized on the christened on the same day. So- Oh, that's funny. So there's interesting things like that. So what we get is they arrived there and then one of the daughters married a transported person who was living there in Australia. And then he got a divorce from her. Well, I don't know if there was ever a formal divorce, but he left her and ran off with her sister. And then they, because of the law at that time, once he married someone in Australia, he was released from his obligation as a criminal. So in other words, he was given a pardon for being a criminal. And they were really desperate to have people to live there. But he ended up taking his wife back to England and they had a family. And so now I have families that go through Australia and their descendants. And then one of the member, one of the families, the state police and one of the members of the other family, the Parkinson's got married. And then they came to them, they got married coming to America on the boat. And when they got here, of course those are my grandparents, my great-grandparents. Now did India actually stay in Australia? Oh yeah, the whole rest of the family did. So I have an innumerable number of relatives now in Australia as well as a lot of other places around the world. So it's just kind of interesting how that whole history and what we found was all the records. The guy who married my great-grand, great-great-grand, great-great-great-grand, we found his arrest record, his arraignment, his trial records, his sentencing, his transportation record, his arrival in Australia record. I mean, we traced that guy every step all the way to Australia and then all the way back to England. So it's been an interesting, a lot of those kings have been quite interesting and quite a discovery. But there's thousands of those stories. Well, that's part of what's fun though is finding ways to help bring those ancestors back to life and make them personable and see them as something besides a name on a census record or... Yeah, no, they're very much so that's very important for people to understand that they're still people, they're people and they deserve being remembered. Now, when did you first discover Wickey Tree? I don't know, but here's an interesting thing I thought I'd show you. So, a long time ago, a long time would right after you folks probably started the Wickey Tree as I'm sure we, I really don't know how I got, you know, how I learned about it, but I know I talk to, I used to talk to everybody at Roots Tech every year. Right, and we're always there, but yeah, definitely with a green trim on that shirt, that one's, you've had it for a while. Very much. Now, who would you say are your toughest brick walls right now? Oh, well, you know, the ultimate one is William Tanner, but that's the kind of brick wall where it's not necessarily a brick wall of too little information, it's a brick wall of too much information. He was, he's may be the immigrant, we don't know, but if he was the immigrant, then he came to New England in 16, in the early mid to late 1600s, probably around 1680, but in doing the research over the years, my line back to him, to his son, Francis Tanner, is, I mean, we don't even have enough space on the places to put all the, or time to put up all the records that we found, but we have enormous amounts of records, but once it gets to William Tanner, the problem is that we, I found ultimately that there were probably 10 people living in Rhode Island with exactly the same name at the same time, and they all have, of course, different wives, and the problem is they named everybody in that town, Mary or Elizabeth or whatever, and so you're gonna find multiple wives with people with the same name. The issue that is created was that the surname books, one of the which I mentioned was written back in 19, there were two written in 1914, William Tanner of North Kingston and William Tanner of South Kingston, couldn't make up his mind, and the two books, both of them have speculation, they, if no, they're not, there's no facts. Unfortunately, what's happened over the years is that people have just read the books and copied those names into their family trees. So there's a, you know, the more research you do, the more blowback you get from all of the people who say, well, this was really his wife, and I say, well, okay, show me a record. Well, it says in the book that this was his wife. I said, no, it doesn't say in the book that it was his wife. Anyway, so this is kind of the ongoing thing that's been going on for good 40, 25 or 30 years of often on doing research. So it was helpful. Yeah, definitely makes it difficult with a common name. Yeah, I basically went back through all the New England records and the town records and found the tax records and the probate records and all of the other records that went on with, you know, every court record and the witnesses records for every one of the, all the way back to him. And when I get back to William, then I just keep finding a lot of William Tanners, but I don't ever find the connection directly except from Francis, who says that his brother is named Nathan and that he had a brother named Benjamin that he got land from. And then when we go get going, the next step would be the William, they look at the brothers and Nathan has a birth record that shows that his father's name was William and his mother's name was Elizabeth. And so there we go. We have a name, but we don't have any way of knowing which William and which Elizabeth it was. There's actually a burial, a burial record, a burial plot. Part of it is a cemetery, but they're buried outside the cemetery and it's, I've been able to show that that's actually very close to where the land was that they owned and that Francis Tanner had a home and William, you know, William Tanner had the home. It's on the third tee of a country club in Rhode Island. And I've always thought, well, yeah, that's pretty normal for Tanners to be. Anyway, so there's the top one. The biggest one, who would you say is number two? Oh, David Shepard. David Shepard's a verified revolutionary war veteran who died a popper, died without a penny. Oh, money to everybody when he died. And there's a pension file, there's probate records, there's everything, nothing tells who his father was. There's not a record ever showed up that says anything about who his father was. And we've had a couple of people try to make up fathers, but they've always never had a record. They just pick some name and tie somebody to them. And there are lots of Shepards. It's not an uncommon name. And it was not uncommon in New England. So it gets a little bit difficult, but that one's always been out there. And I just, just in the last couple of weeks, kind of made a breakthrough in it because I found a, well, I should have known this a long time ago, but without the internet, you would never find this stuff. Right. So basically, I found a book called Shepard Families of New England, and it was by Donald Lines Chacobos. And I went, oh, well, what does he have to say? Anyway, he has separated, Lines separated everybody into the Shepard families by the known ancestor, in other words, the verified ancestor. So he has all these Shepard families that are not interrelated. He has no connections between those families, but just, because Shepard is a, you know, it's a generic, it's an occupational name. It's a, right. So it's like Tanner, you know, we're not all Tanners are not related. And so he did that. And at the end of the book, he has an appendix and the appendix is David Shepard. And he said, nobody, we've gone through every record that is, you know, we know of an existence and we have not found this person. We don't know who he is. So you never know. Well, it sounds like you definitely have some challenging lines. Well, the problem with early New England immigrants, and this is probably something that not too many people are aware of. And that is that there was a significant number of people who came from Western Europe and primarily from Great Britain, the British Isles who were transported in the sense that they were either transported as criminals or they came across as indentured servants. And the estimate is as high as 40% of the people who came early on. And so many people say, well, my ancestor couldn't have been an indentured servant because he was rich and he owned land. And I said, well, that's what happened when you got to America, but that's not what they had in England. Right. And so it's always in the back of the mind, they're likely when you hit one of those immigrants at that early time that doesn't show up in the Great Migration or any of the other books or any of the other studies that they changed their name. When they got here, they saw that there was free land someplace, so they just walked away from their indenture and changed their name and became somebody else. And that was their life. And there's no, they're so far back of course that DNA is only wildly, I mean, probably not helpful at all. So there's no way you're gonna find that family through DNA because it's gonna be like a mass of cloud of people. So anyway, those are some of the ideas and some of the background. So what do you hope to see the most and participating in our wiki tree challenge? Oh, I was just fascinated by the idea. Well, it really is something incredible to watch. My heart goes out to Marianne because that is the kind of thing that I just feel great. It's like the greatest thing is to be able to move backward with those families that are so difficult in Eastern Europe. And it's, you know, that's a great, great benefit. I live in the vast sea of 10,000 or 15,000 DNA matches and 20 to 30,000 record hints on ancestry and my heritage. Marianne says, oh, in my dreams. I mean, I could literally spend the rest of my life full-time just evaluating record hints on the major websites. There's just no time to do all that kind of stuff. And so we kind of, I just have to kind of pick my lines. My most recent one was that was a surprise to me was my, it was a line that led back to the Netherlands because that's the first time out of the British Isles that I've ever verified anything at all, so. And I saw somebody already scoping out that line earlier. Well, we couldn't help Marianne, but you know what? We can help him. Well, the Jewish line, the DePrize line, they're interesting. They were, the grandfather, the George DePrize was, there was a doctor to DePrize, but their ancestors were basically, if their ancestors were basically feather merchants for generations. And what they did was they sold the feathers that went on the headdresses of the funeral horses. And they had to, because the horses would knock them off and everything, there was like this constant need for a supply of these plumes that they had on the front of the horses. And so that's where they made their living. The rest of them were crooks, counterfeiters, and were thrown in prison, but other than that. But going back in time, it was really interesting to get back because, you know, whenever I do this, I have to learn all the history, so I have to go back and figure out the entire history of the world there. And found out that, because the connection, because of my Spanish and Central American and all of my Spanish background, it was interesting to find out that the time period or focus on the time period that Spain was actually in control of the Netherlands. And so there was the Spanish Empire in the Netherlands. And because of that, there were no Jews in the Netherlands, at least they would admit they were Jews. And so all the Jews began to show up in about 1630, 1640, because before that, they were there. And so there's kind of that barrier because once you get to that level of the 1630, whatever, ancestor, everything back to there is well documented, but past that is just free for all. Yeah, and one of the things I know we learned this year is that they don't charge for anything to do the Dutch research. All those records are free, everything is 100% free. So I know it's a little bit hard for them to understand how like in the US, we have to use ancestry and paid sites because otherwise you can't get it, some of the documents that we need. But we've done a lot of other research in our Dutch project. There's some just crazy good people in that Dutch project. They're all wonderful. And they've taught us a lot about researching those records this year and building the family trees out. And it just blows your mind, Mary, you wouldn't believe it. I mean, people are out there like 14th generation, they're set, I'm like, oh man, in my dreams, maybe my grandchildren will get my tree out that far. Oh, no, yeah, it's, no, that's just, that's they have probably the best records going back that far. The only people that have better records are in Iceland and unless you're from Iceland, that's not much of a benefit. But Iceland has a book, for example, of a database of every person they've ever been able to identify that ever lived on the island. But the restriction is it's totally restricted. You actually have to be a resident citizen of Iceland to look at the records. They won't let anybody else into them. So it's kind of an interesting situation there. I think I could go on forever, but well, I think we are going to wrap it up because I know people are getting anxious to work on the new tree this week. I wanna thank you again, Marianne, for letting us give this gift of your ancestors to you and letting us play in your branches. I wanna thank everybody that works so hard on her research and her ancestors. And yeah, lots of Marianne love. You guys were just amazing. You never, you know, cease to amaze me. And for everybody watching here, of course, and for James for coming on this week and letting us start on to his branches as well. And I know, you know, once again, everybody's anxious to get started on the new week. I think we'll have a couple of holdovers. It'll still be looking at Marianne's records and then the rest are just gonna jump right into those Tana branches. So thank you everybody again. Don't forget, you can check us out at wikitree.com like the video, subscribe if you'd like to get notifications and we will end this for the night. See you next Wednesday. Hey, thanks. Goodnight. We'll see ya.