 to Inside Leather History and Fireside Chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe. I am the host and the producer of the chats, which are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today, I'm at the iconic Ramrod Bar in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Actually, Wilton Maddox. And my guest today is Chad Bush. Chad is the general manager of the Ramrod and the producer of Pigway. Hey Chad, how are you? Hi, very well. How are you? I'm great. We share a really fascinating history that we discovered when we were preparing for this interview. We literally came out and attended the same bar in Akron, Ohio in the 1980s. Now, I could not believe the overlap that we shared in that situation. Tell us a little bit about Jock's Bar in Akron. Is it even still there? No, the front door is still there. But most of what's happened in Akron, especially in that part of town, is kind of gone, because that was right across the street from the Firestone Plant where they made tires. When that closed down, that whole section of that city kind of shut down as well. So, yeah, the bar there, Jock's was amazing. It was actually one of the first bars that I had ever worked in. And I was a DJ there when I was a teenager. I had old enough to get into the bar, but I was gaining a bartender. So, that totally, yeah, that totally made that work. And it was great. I really loved that place. And it's still to this day, I think about it very fondly. Yeah. I was 20 years old and I came out and that was the first bar I ever visited. So, it's always going to have that little bit of nostalgia for me. But additionally, you were part of the gay group at Kent State University. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, that was the KGLF. And I was the president of the KGLF back in a long time ago. And so, and it was a great experience. And that was right when, that was right at the, right when we were getting active with HIV culture and being able to be proactive and teaching, teaching people to get tested and teaching people about sex and that whole period, which was, you know, to be on the forefront of that when you're 18 years old, you know, was quite daunting. We set up a HIV hotline for people to be able to call in and ask questions that they didn't know. And we had support groups and we had testing and we did a lot of social things as well. But it was really a great time and, you know, to be able to get active and be able to help certain communities. You said Akron was a gay place in the 80s. What did you mean by that? Well, you know, Akron is, you know, right outside of Cleveland, right above Canton, kind of like the Mid-City and the Tri-City area. And we also had Akron U, which was a huge amount of young people and a lot of young gay men and women. And so, the amount of bars that we had, it was seven, eight bars at any given time and very large bars, you know, like the Quest, which was one of the bars we both went to, that was upwards of 30,000 square feet. And just, it's a massive complex. And that's at the Interbelt, which was another giant club and jocks where, you know, we both had it at the same time. And all of those were just massive and full. You know, and quite full. And then, you know, Cleveland had its own community, but we had such a huge amount of people going to bars going out at that point. It was before Interhead. Yes. Well, and what I remember too from a lot of that was we had fantastic music at that time. Yeah, totally different from anything we know now, 30 some odd years later. Right. So, tell me a little bit more about the work at Kent State with the gay group that you mentioned that you did a lot of work with like HIV and AIDS education. But you had a wonderful meeting that also went on, wasn't it, every month? Every month, yes. Yeah. Every month we would do the social. And that was where people came in from all over to come to our big mixer social. It was a non HIV event. It was just to have fun. It wasn't us who weren't protesting anything. We weren't pushing for people to get tested. It was just for us to have fun together. And it was really great. And that was one of them. It was a huge event. And we had tons of people come to it. And it was very popular. And actually, yeah, it was the, when I first got there, it was the Kent Gay Liberation Front. And now, and then during that, my tenure there, it was the Kent Gay Lesbian Foundation. I mean, there's a lot more initials to put behind that now if it was going to stick that way. But yeah, that was kind of the beginning of that change, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it was an amazing time. It really was. Do you ever keep up with it? Do you know if it's still an operation? I did see, I did see online that it was in some fashion still going. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. But Kent State's a big enough school that it can support absolutely. Yeah. So what happened after Akron? What did you do? Well, after Akron, well, I went to Kent State and then I transferred to Italy for a period of time. And then to Paris. And then I went to NYU after that just because it was part of the American Institute and all my credits were transferred. So it was a great way to graduate from us. School got to Kent State without having to lose all my credits. So we've been at Manhattan for quite a while and they're still involved in the clubs and still being, well, a club kid. My first couple of jobs were, I was at a place called the Pyramid with, I was an American Indian in a play where a drag queen dressed as Christopher Columbus had bought the island of Manhattan for a bunch of beads to give it to the Indians. And I was one of the Indians. It was quite, quite funny to have that for your first job. But then, you know, when I came over, I had all this amazing music and back then it was called Asset House and I brought it with me from Europe. And so I kept a DJ and kind of kept doing that throughout the entire time being in New York. And then being a club kid, they started shipping us down here to open up, you know, the clubs in Miami. And then, you know, I mean, then I got fat and hairy. They made one way ticket to Fort Lauderdale. So I'll come back and I'm kidding. Let's take a step back. Tell me, what were you doing though in France and in Italy? Oh, I was starting art history and sculpture. And it was a great time. And I learned a lot, loved being over there. But, you know, coming back to, coming back to the States, I was relieved, actually, after I got back. I was coming back to New York City. And it's like, that was like the jumping off point for, you know, the rest of my life, you know, and I mean, that was all play over there. Okay. You know what I mean? Coming back to NYU and and getting back into the bar scene. And my life really, it just roamed from that moment. I was promoting there and promoting now. You know, so. But take us back another step. You said you got involved in the club scene in New York. How did that happen? And what did you do? Oh, gosh. All right. So my first job, but besides the one with an pyramid, I worked with a guy named Chip Duckett. And Chip Duckett was a promoter. And at that time, we were doing this club called bars. And it was bar scene, man, Thursday. And I was spinning. I was spinning, I think third floor, which was kind of like asset house, trip hop, I don't know that thing going on. It was a very, it was a very cool crowd. You know, it was a multi-layer club. And gosh, I think the home of Van Sant and Rube Hall were DJing on the roof. I mean, with the basement. I don't know. He had involved in the club somewhere. And then, you know, there was the greatest DJs in the world were there. It was great. And get to know them and learning more about music. And it just became, you know, passionate, you know, and I spun for years and years, you know, and, but, you know, like spinning, it's unless you want to travel. And this was like, I was a final DJ, because I had Paul that said that everything was kind of moving out of that. And already the club scene that I already started picking up ships bartending. So, you know, coming here to Fort Lauderdale, Ramron was a perfect fit for me. But that's a big change leading to New York City for South Florida. So what prompted that? Well, I was spending a lot of time down here anyway. And it just kind of naturally kind of evolved this way. You know, it seemed to be right. No, I didn't, I didn't go back to Akron for a while. Then I opened up a bar called Babylon. Okay. Yeah. And I got Babylon for many years. And then bringing it then when I saw that came down here to Florida. But that's a big step. I mean, as again, leaving New York City and opening a bar that again in Akron, what was going on that enabled you to be able to do that? Well, it was actually also working for my parents. When I graduated, it was time for me to kind of see what I could do, you know, here and then still going back and forth to Miami to open clubs and spin and doing all that. And then it just became more lucrative to come down here. Okay. After a while. Now, tell us a little bit about the LGBTQ, et cetera, scene here in Fort Lauderdale when you arrived. Well, that was in 2005, when I got here. I think it was five. And it was amazing. It was great coming to a mecca at that time. The meccas were kind of shrinking. And, you know, South Beach was no longer the big game mecca that it was. And everybody had moved into the Fort Lauderdale. So, Wilton Manors being so densely populated and was such, you know, amazing gay people and gay things. I mean, if you haven't been to Wilton Manors to see what we have here in this city, you'll be shocked if you've never seen anything like it. Because it doesn't exist in San Francisco anymore. That's true. And Palm Springs is so spread out, you know, on all of us. It's very gay, ghetto-centric. You know what I mean? And it's a great place to live. You know, and people sometimes give it a bad rap. It's like, oh, we've got so many gay people here. You know, you don't want to hang out with that person, hang out with the other people. I mean, what was the biggest surprise, I guess, if it was so concentrated here? Was there anything that really stood out to you that said, wow, this is definitive? Yeah, actually. I remember when I first came out, I was staying at a friend of mine's guest house right there off the drive. And I walked out of the guest house that was right on Wilton Drive. And as far as I could see were gay people. And there's five gay bars in that complex right there. And there's all these restaurants. And the food was amazing. And I felt so welcome. You know what I mean? Not something I had felt since going to San Francisco, but that was still a neighborhood that was very inclusive and isolated from the rest of the world. And even Key West, I remember when Key West kind of became more of a tourist spot than a gay spot. And I remember feeling it the first time going down there in the mid-80s and going, wow, this is beautiful. All these gay men and everybody's so positive and so comfortable. And, you know, it was just an amazing way to feel, you know, and I kind of looking for that Key West feel my whole life when I came here reminded me of that. Tell me more about Key West, because we really don't hear anything about that. Well, it's not what it was. It was back then. I mean, there was gay movie theaters and there was gay bars. And that was before they opened up the ports to the big cruise ships. So when that happened, all the tourists were coming in every hour, which kind of killed the vibe for the gay people that lived there with their Key West culture, which was amazing. These people lived in their own happy, beautiful, safe world. And, you know, then, you know, all the souvenir shops got bought up and everything was turned into a souvenir shop. That was in the entire gay strip on the wall. And it's kind of was the beginning of the end for the gay culture there. Nothing, there's still great bars and there's still that, but it's not what it was. So do you feel then that Fort Lauderdale became sort of the melting pot for the people from all the different areas to congregate? Really do. And I know I see people that I've known from Miami 30 years ago, people I've known from Key West, they're all here. I still am friends with them, which is really great. And to have that history in a community is what it's all about. I mean, when I go to, when I go to Publix, which is five points, which is like the center of what matters. Supermarket? Right, Publix Supermarket. I know all the names of the people who report the registers. I know. I go there. I say hello to 30 people. And I know because I've been here for so long. And that's what being in a community is about. Being able to go there and see your friends and, you know, driving down the street. And it's like, Oh, that's Brian and David. Oh, yeah, that's Chris. You know, I mean, it makes you feel good to be in a community that is this close, you know. But let's take the step back again. Tell me more about the Fort Lauderdale that you first experienced, the sort of the kink side of Fort Lauderdale, the bear side, the leather side. Well, my first, the first thing that I started doing when I got to Fort Lauderdale was setting up bear parties. And I had a large mailing list of bears at that time. And I did kind of my own welcoming party, you know, for myself and my house, you know, kind of break the house in. And it was great. There was hundreds of people at it. It was really a lot of fun. And then I started renting guest houses to do these bear pool parties all over. And from there, a couple of things happened. I started throwing bear parties here at Ramrod, you know, as well. And then started doing, there was, there was pig dance, there was man dance, and there was all these other things that were really being incorporated into our program here. And we did this, we did beach bear starting a couple of years after that. And that was a huge hit for many years, until, you know, I wanted to go in a different direction with pig. Okay. Yeah, so we moved out of that, moved into Pig Week, which was, you know, kind of the way that that got started. So what I'm understanding is that you have a huge reservoir of people you knew from all the other work you had been doing. And as you mentioned, the all sort of congregated here. Got it. Okay. So, yeah. And then what I started noticing is like being here, being part of the leather community, and being a bear, a lot of my leather guys did not want to go to the bear parties because they didn't feel like they were a bear. And a lot of my bear guys were in the leather parties because they didn't feel that they were leather enough. So that's why Pig seemed a way to create a new genre where everybody felt comfortable because all men are pigs. And no matter if you're a jock or a body boy or a leather guy or a bear, you're welcome because it's a fetish community. It's not about what you look like. It's about what you like, you know. And the community has taken off so well. I mean, there's pig events now happening all over the world. And I couldn't be prouder. But take me back. How were you even exposed to the entire kink concept? How did you even know about this? Well, ever since I was, of course, coming out, I always knew. I knew that my leather scene was something that was super interesting. And I always liked the masculine guys. And so so with all the bear, all the bear knights were always at leather bars, you know, like, you know, and Cleveland, the left stallion, and then at my bar in Akron, and, you know, and then down here, they were all kind of incorporated together and yet still separate. So, you know, being a kid, knowing that you like, you know, that particular genre of men, you know, that's what you gravitate towards, you know. So that's how that started. And then when Pig Week first started, I had no idea how it was going to take off. But I knew I had enough people interested and Pig Dance was doing so well that to go from having a weekend event, which I was having for Beech Bear, to having a 10-day event in a new genre, it took a huge marketing push. And my first big event that I had of that first year for that first party, I remember, and it's Pig Week starts right after Thanksgiving, and Thanksgiving is the most lucrative weekend in Fort Lauderdale according to the Visitor Conventions Group. Because we've got the hurricane showdown, the white party, all the tourists for Thanksgiving. And at that time, there's another LGBT conference in Miami as well. So all of that was happening this same weekend. And we also had at that time the weather mess ball going on. And so getting people to stay from Thanksgiving to stay in Fort Lauderdale as long as we can keep them here until the following weekend when the Pig Dance happens, the first Saturday of everyone, was kind of the thrust to keep those people there. And it worked beautifully. And the way that people have responded and embraced Pig Week and the events, I'm just so grateful and so excited for this genre to have taken off like it has. How long have you been doing it? Pig, well, Pig Week officially has started eighth year. Oh, good. I think, yeah, all right, yeah, it's our eighth year. Right? Because, you know, we didn't have one for 2020. Right, with COVID. How did you navigate that? Well, it was heartbreaking, you know, and I made it to cancel, but I couldn't faith go ahead and have it. You know what I mean? I knew, you know, coming through the summer, that first summer, there was no way. Because to throw it about that big, it takes a full year of planning. I couldn't plan anything. I had no idea what was going to happen. We're all scared. Yeah. So after things started to get a little different, you know, and the latter part of 2021, it's like, okay, we're ready. And people, I've forwarded everybody from the first year to all right, from the 20 to 21. So I already had, you know, 800 something people already registered. Oh, wow. So then just moving it forward. And it's like, okay, we're going to do this. Everybody was like, yes, because we were right in that scene between Delta and Omicron. Yes. We didn't know about Omicron. Delta and people were coming back and the tourists were here and everybody was flying in just like, they weren't with masks, but we're still doing that. And being in that scene, it was so lucky because that Omicron kind of took control, you know, which put another damper on that, on all the tourism in Fort Lauderdale. But yeah, we're going strong for next year. We set up the site four days ago. We have 12 new registrations. I have to register that. This is going to be my first pick week. And what can I anticipate? Tell me what I can anticipate coming here for that. Well, you know, people ask me this a lot. They say things like, well, what's the best party that you have to, you know, that I can't miss? And there's so many different parties, you know, I mean, I've got parties for people with a foot fetish. I've got parties for people who like fisting. I've got parties for people with a bondage. I've got people who are into roadplay. If it's a fetish, I throw a party for it. What do you do with them? Well, it's actually it's the entire city. There are 27 venues that take place from guest houses to B&Bs to all of the clubs to restaurants at the gym and a warehouse. And, you know, all of them, everybody takes part in a pick week, you know, and that's kind of been the magic to it, success, you know what I mean? Because when you've got 45 restaurants that are giving a discount for anybody with a pick week tabs, you know, that's a really big thing, you know. So it's and then you've got, we have up or we have 87 parties last year in 10 days, right? Yeah. So it takes a lot of people in this city to pull it off, you know. How do you manage to coordinate that? Because in a neighborhood like this, which is still sort of subjective to the overall diversity and sometimes bitchiness of the community, how do you manage that? Here's how. I never charge any bar or any restaurant or anything to have a party. Okay. My job is to bring money into the community. And so that's why I'm not, I don't, oh, you know, I'm not charging Alibi to have a party for this or for that or any of them. I just don't do it because it's what makes it stronger. And I learned over the years, when you're not charging, nobody's bitching. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. And everybody makes money, you know. And everybody has a great time. People come here. And I mean, it was great when I was working at the bar event, but there was a hundred bar events. Yeah, yeah. People started coming here and like, wow, this is so different. And it's so exactly where I want to be, you know, exactly what I've been looking for, you know. So yeah, it's been, it's been quite great. Now you don't charge, but how then do you finance a lot of this? If you're not charging the bars? Yeah, don't charge the bars. Yeah, you buy a dog tag to for a week pass. Yes. Right. And or we charge at the door for people who are going to be here for one night. Okay. You know, so that really works. You know, I mean, that way, you know, the bars are selling booze and selling food and you know, and all of that stuff. And it's, you know, that's, that's really what makes big work. Now, how many people normally would attend? Well, at, but any, if we're all parties combined, we've had over a hundred thousand people attend parties. Wow. But those are people who have it. We totally count at every party, but when there's eight grades a day, and some person is going to several to several, it's not, it's not a real number, right? You know, anything, but it is the number that we get. Okay. So, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a mass crush of people, which is perfect. Wow. Wow. Now, what feedback do you get from people regarding a lot of this? Well, you know, there's a lot of events for the letter C, right? And for, and for fetishes. When you deal with, I know, which you've been a part of, that's contest based. Yes. You know, and, and vendor fair based. And it's, and I did not want to have that feel to pig week. I didn't want her to be a competitive edge. And I didn't want to, I didn't want that to be the thrust, like the vendors fair. I didn't want that to be the thrust of what people are going to do, because we have this city, which is a vendor's fair. Yeah. There was all the gay shops up and down the street on both sides. And that's our vendor fair. And that's what we're running. Now, I have to wonder for pig week, do you, what do people normally expect from a lot of this? Is there something specific that you've heard people say, this is what I want? Well, yes. The super huge sex parties. Everybody loves it. You know, when you've got, you know, you've got 700 people naked balling on our dance floor. It's, you know, it's, it's quite exciting. But there's people that have really wanted to find things, especially people from Iowa or, you know, nothing against Iowa. But there's not a big fetish community there. Right. So they look at, they look at my list. I'm like, Oh my God, there's a foot fetish party here and a piss party there. Two things I'm really into, I'm going now. Anyway, thank you for doing this. I've been trying to find this. I've been looking for, you know, we get a lot of that. And people are just, they're grateful to find their brothers. You know, yeah, it's really good. Any disappointments? Well, COVID. That was a bit of a disappointment. None of this, the city supports me, the county supports me. All the bar owners, you know, they're, they all take place. And yeah, I mean, it is disappointments. No, not really. How about any parties that haven't worked out that you don't do anymore? Nope. Okay. Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean, we still have all those, all the original places we had parties at our first year, we're still doing parties there. Okay. You know, what's the biggest one? The biggest one. Well, pig dance here, you know what I mean, but then we have the Psycho Circus, which is on Wednesday, that's huge. And that's got my gang bang lottery. It's got, like we launched Drummer Magazine there, when Drummer came out. Again, we've done a lot of things, you know, at that party, but it is, it's the one I get the most feedback on. Okay. And people saying that was fucking amazing, you know. But tell me about the gang bang lottery, because that's, that's the stuff of legends, really. All right. Well, the gang bang lottery, it started out, because there's a lot of different porn companies, eight years ago. Yes. Yeah, when we're starting Pig Week. And since they were all coming into Fort Lauderdale, and I needed hot guys, and I needed performers like this, the, all the porn companies we got together, so we can hire in the best porn stars in the world. So we could get all the biggest names from Spain or from Portugal or from wherever, wherever, just to fly them in, because we're all splitting the cost. Okay. Right. So it, and then they get to work for 10 days, because they could shoot with all the different companies, you know what I mean? So it really became, it's like a clearinghouse of porn stars. Okay. Which is one of the greatest things about Pig Week, because there's so many hot, big name porn stars every day, shooting over and over and coming to the parties and hosting parties and, you know, and they've been absolutely amazing. And like Ray Dalton, he's, he has, from the beginning, been one of my porn rankers. So, and he's been in the industry for quite a while. So, and he does production, he does all of those things, but having him who knows everything, who's doing really well right now, who's coming, who's flying into my, he knows all of them. So it really does, it really does help, you know, and he's been amazing. Everything that you've been telling me for the last few minutes here, it really tells me you are the common denominator of the Fort Lauderdale community. What are you feeling? I don't know about that, but I mean, there's, there's so many amazing people in this town, but it really is. I mean, I can invite people to talk to me ahead who are just really active and, you know, with all of the benefits, with all of the, with all of that stuff. And that stuff is so important, you know, it's, I mean, my stuff happens a couple of times a year. They do stuff every, you know, to people who really, really work in this community. And, you know, I'm an awe of them, you know what I mean. But that's what makes our community all doing our own thing and working with each other to make sure it all happens. Like, yes, I'm here at Ramrod. I just gave a huge gift basket to Mr. Eagle, you know what I mean? Because, yes, I want our community to grow anyway. I just gave to another benefit, I just gave, you know, a thousand dollars to another benefit. In so many communities, we see a lot of fighting. We see a lot of estrangement. You're not depicting that here. Why do you think this scene is different? You know, this scene is different because we're not, we don't see, most of our clients are tourists. Okay. Right. So they come in, they look in the books and they say, oh, this is happening. Or they're online. Oh, this is happening. That's what's going to happen. And they're here all the time anyway. They get, you know, playing loads of people every hour, especially during season, all the time. And that's, there's no time for fighting when you're working. You know what I mean? I'm not having a party there. Great. You know, I'll put it on my page. You know what I mean? I'll send it out for you. I'll put you my newsletter. Because, you know, communities great, you know, and they do the same thing for me. It's just fascinating for me as an outsider to your community here, because I see in so many other communities, all this infighting, and they get all of this anger and all of this nastiness going on. But here, you're depicting a situation where it doesn't happen. Well, it doesn't happen to me. If it happens, I don't know about it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, they might, you know, this guy might not like that guy. They're like, they're like me. I like all of them. That does make you the common denominator, doesn't it? Well, also, there we get. We started a phone loop for all of the owners. And all of the people that, you know, our GMs are, had security for all of the bar people that, so if there is a problem, right? I can just, I can send it out to everyone at one time. Okay. So like, oh, this is happening on Willam Drive. Be careful. And so we all kind of band together and take care of each other, which is important. When we were preparing for this interview, you told me that a lot of very young people or just people in general, come to Fort Lauderdale chasing dreams. Now, somewhere, someone's going to see this interview and they're going to say, I want to go and I want to live in Fort Lauderdale. And I want to enjoy that scene. What advice can you give that person? Don't become a cliche. And stay off the drugs. I mean, that's, I mean, honestly, I've seen it so many times where people come into town and, you know, these polite, beautiful boys, you know, coming in, you know, just right off the bus and they get into town. They're partying. They're having great time. They get hooked up with the wrong crowd. They get on drugs, they shave her head, become a bottom. It's really, it's not, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of, that Fort Lauderdale falls out, that downward spiral. Take care of yourself. Great. You want to party, have a great time, enjoy that. But it can't be your lifestyle. You know what I mean? When you live here, you're no longer a tourist. Yeah. You know, when you live here, you got to work here. And people who move here sometimes forget that they're not a, they're not a tourist anymore. Right. They have to get a job and they have to do things and they have to, you know, all those things. I've seen so many people forget that. If a young person were to walk up to you right now, what would you say to that person? Let me see your ID. That's fair. There you go. Yeah, my demographic isn't that young here. But, you know, I mean, it's the city and I see them all the time and if they were asking me life advice, I'd say find a good group of friends and hang out with them. Okay. You know what I mean? People that have jobs and, you know, not people that, you know, are going to drag you in a direction you don't want to go. Okay. You know. You did mention the drug scene. How prevalent is that here? What goes on in that year? Well, honestly, like before COVID, it crystal hit hard. It hit hard. I saw the best minds of my generation. It was an amazing turn of events in such a short period of time where crystal really hit and people were dropping like flies and becoming crazy. I mean, just, you know, the insane things that people were doing. It was like satin, you know, and I'd seen friends at the gym, you know, and then I'd seen them two months later. I mean, lost 30 pounds or all, you know, stand up and, you know, I'm saster and I feel better, you know, just stay on that scene, you know. Why do you think it's so prevalent here? Well, people weren't, it's changed now, I think, especially after COVID. I haven't seen that amount of craziness back in town yet. You know what I mean? I think COVID did quell that quite a bit, which is good because, you know, one good thing about COVID is people were talking to each other and you know, you know, doing that. It did put a kibosh on that for about a while. So, you have a son. Tell us about your son, although a lot of people don't know this. All right, so, yes, I have a son and his name is Sebastian and he's a tennis player and when his father and I have been friends for a very long time, and he's from Bolivia, and my son is a amazing tennis player. He wanted to become a pro open. So, at first, he had to get on a junior pro tour and we had to get him out of Bolivia because the total eternity at some stage and you can't, there's no tournaments there and you can't bring coaches in and you can't send money out. You couldn't, there's a lot of things you could do in Bolivia that you can do and especially here in South Florida. So, it was best that I brought him here, you know, for the kid and for him to go on tour, which was great and he was, you know, he was always on tour. It's not like he lived here, you know, because he was touring his, you know, around all these high school years. And when he graduated, he got into Villanova Business School and International Finance and he's, this one is such a proud papa, he's intern at Shanghai Friendly Baba, he's at London School of Economics. He's been, he got picked up, he got options, he had a sponsor, which was Deutsche Bank and Deutsche Bank picked him up and he now works for Deutsche Bank called the Circle, right in Manhattan and my teacher just gave him a five-year option. So, couldn't he power? And he's six-six, so there's no question about whether or not he's adopted or not. How has he responded to you being gay and in the fetish scene and all of that? You know, I tell you man, I never, I never thought doing what I do and being a part of a community that I'm a part of, I wouldn't be able to be blessed with something like that because it does change you. Sure. It's, uh, love that kid. You know, I mean, it's just really been amazing to have him in my life, you know, and I couldn't be more grateful. You're in the public eye, you're very well known, not just here in Fort Lauderdale, but I think around the country, a lot of people know who you are. You said you'd rather be infamous than be fake. Oh, it's true. What's going on? All right, so first off, when you do what I do, there's a very seedy side to it, right? Sure. And, you know, being gayness is a very strict thing. People are expecting you to do the right thing and to say the right thing and do that and, you know, follow all these rules when, you know, yeah, me and, fuck, I can do anything. You know, when a Chad Bush, oh my God, that's great. You know, so it's a lot different if you're not, if you're infamous. Yes. You know, because they don't have to follow the norms of what being gayness actually is. Okay. Well, how do you see the norms? What does that mean? Well, you know, I saw Chad Bush in a bathhouse, really? Which, honestly, I can't do anyway because I can't have him on the sex because I walk in on a chap. Right, so I can't do that. I feel party's better, you know what I mean? But, you know, it's hard for me to have him on the sex, especially in this time. And because of my husband. So, yeah, it's easier and people say, oh my God, Chad did this. Sure he did. Yeah, people say bullshit about me online or they, you know, they, oh God, more, more hits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I need that. It's good. Yeah. What's the biggest misconception about you? Really? Well, that I'm, I think it's misconception. Well, I have a husband who I love. And I have not slept with anybody but my husband only for his five years. And people think, oh, it's Chad Bush. I could just both have Brad just taken him and, of course, you know, go for it. But I haven't had sex with anybody but my husband. And he is the light of my life. And I'm just so lucky to have found him. And he's sitting right there. And Chad Bush, thank you for an amazing interview for Inside Mother History of Fireside Chad.