 We are celebrating our 10th anniversary that is Science Circle is, but actually the idea of Science Circle was a year earlier, and I'll talk a little bit about that. The very first presentation that was recognized in the Science Circle was in March 2008 called the Anthropocene Epic, and I was honored to give that. And so 10 years later I'm going to revisit the topic. Obviously 10 years later a lot has come up and it's not quite as simple as simply carbon dioxide or temperatures or other things. There's a lot going on. Any animal or plant that breathes, lives, dies, affects the earth, but the real issue is how much it affects. And so let's take a look at what we mean by the Anthropocene Epic. We need to start by looking at what's happened to the earth. Here again, it's been 10 years, it's hard to imagine. And I think there may be some people who were here 10 years ago. I know die has been here a long time. There may have been others. Way back then, in 2007, yeah, I was here too. Chantel started a, by the way, we didn't know each other's names back there, so I had no idea what her name was until about 2010. No one had heard voices until then, because if you'll remember in the summer of 2010 or maybe not, if you have not been in Second Life that long, voices came in. And that was very controversial because voices can betray a lot of things. It can be where you're from. It can betray gender and age and lots of things. And we started a science circle board in the summer and Chantel wanted to make sure that people who presented were who they said they were. Yes, I'm refused exactly. And this day, some still will not reveal their real name or anything else about them or talk. And that was the first time I'd heard Sean's voice too. So it was very interesting. It's only been that long. Now, back in 2007 to 2008, we had several things going on. We had a philosophy forum and then it branched off to a science forum called NIMP Science Forum. And then to NIMP Science Circle and then finally to the science circle and last year in the summer started a nonprofit organization which is known as the Science Circle Foundation. So it's a long way. I've got the names there of the people who attended the very first presentation. And it was kind of instead of people talking because there was no talking back then. We had a discussion and it's rules about how to discuss and there were a, there was a moderator. It's a Fredris. So that was what was 10 years ago. Let's take a look then about this topic 10 years later. Over to the right. I happened to find the actual slides that I had from March 2008. I've got the names and the transcript and the whole. And so I'm including the slides from 10 years ago from the presentation I did back then. They were about that size. We didn't have big presentation board. And they were somewhat whimsical and I did them do things myself. So I think it'd be interesting now. How have we around the world viewed the Earth's history? Well, it depends on where you ask. In some cases, the Earth has been thought of as always being here. And in other cases, it's been cycle cyclic other words in the Americas in parts of Asia. The Earth's history was viewed as cycles. In other words, there was Earth's that were created and then destroyed and then another created and destroyed and some by fire, some by flood, some by other means. And so how old the Earth was it was not necessarily a question for some cultures. In the case that I have up here I've written the Cheyenne one and if you look, that's probably a hybrid between Christian. History or Judeo Christian Earth creation myths and the Cheyenne people. It's kind of an interesting one, I think. So I put that up there. You'll also notice that in the West, sometimes we become interested in a kind of a linear history and when exactly things were, instead of kind of accepting things. 1654, a gentleman Bishop named Usher actually looked at the version or the translation of the Christian Bible, the Western Christian Bible that was being that he was looking at and he reasoned from the text that Earth began at nightfall. It was around 6pm on the 22nd of October, 4004 BC. Now we can call calendars and such as far as that being an anachronism BC in particular not being invented until about 600 AD, but whatever. It was a little, it was fairly precise. We may want to reexamine that as far as hold the Earth was. Once we started digging in the earth, there wasn't always a reason to dig in the earth. You know, you built buildings, you had salt mines in the old days. People dig dug for metals. And they may have discovered things. Yes. Yes. Good. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong. I often present on topics where I'm not an expert because I'd like to do research. But I kind of have read a lot on a lot of stuff. So there's my slide up in the upper hand. One of the kind of rules, so to speak, is that the deeper you dig the older the area is. In the case of the Grand Canyon, which has been revealed through a combination of erosion and uplift, you've got rocks which have been dated back to a billion and a half years. There's other rocks on earth that are showing part of the early cratons or the parts of the continental box, the granite type rocks instead of salty rocks. And in Canada and Australian places in Africa that are much older, two or three billion years old. As we dug, we found that, yeah, and that's a qualifier. In other words, Virginia is part of the Appalachian area and places have been flipped up and down. And same thing in Rockies and other places where great tectonic movements and uplift and volcanic volcanism. In general, the deeper you dig. Okay, good. The earlier and the earlier the creatures and plants and sometimes we would find things. And I'm saying we, during history would find things that obviously didn't belong. And so people would say, oh, monsters and other things. And it wasn't until fairly recent that a systematic plan created as to in the 1800s in particular as and then dated as to how far back we're looking. Okay, so if and then we found gracious, the earth is a whole lot older than we thought. There's been different ways to represent that. I like the one on the left because it's spiral and it, you can see that the earth is was very, very old. Even before the very first living things, or at least the very first living things other than for one celled organisms, things we could see anyway. They've been a few hundred years or a few, excuse me, a few hundred million years that they've been living things on land and things we would recognize. You can and then another way of looking at it is that arm and hand down there if you look at your arm and you stretch out to your fingernails. Most of what we know is like the very tip of your fingernail. It wasn't even until you have to get all the way to your hand there before even multi cellular organisms. Now, if you look at the bars, I'm going to play with those for a second. If you look at the bars on the ground, these were the original props I used for the presentation in March 2008. I found courtesy of Lyndon lab. They don't get rid of inventory. So I found them in my and the bar in the back, the one I'm moving right now, that one, the scale is one meter equals 500 million years. And so to the far left there, that's the Hadian period where the earth is really hot and then it cooled down a little bit. And so the green period at the far end was really about the last big era. And I, so the next little bar there is one meter equals five, excuse me, 50 million years. But you're still talking about a long period of time. These contained plate eras or periods, which we recognize things like the Jurassic and the SSO. And here again, if I say the wrong words, correct me, I like this, but I'm not an expert in it. And then finally, the very last period there, one meter equals five million years. See right on the very end, that gray area to the right is the area that we would recognize. These are ones like the, let's see, what is it? Eocene and the myocene and ones where you've got basically the birds and then the mammals ruling the world. Okay, what were the natural changes? In other words, the world's changed a lot. There was one time when the world was completely covered by ice, what we call the snowball earth. There was other times in the very early period of the earth where there was no oxygen. And it took a long time for the photosynthetic organisms to create oxygen. And really it's been fairly recently since oxygen was in the quantities we see today. And as one of our members pointed out in the first presentation this morning, we had up to 30% oxygen at one time and there were huge insects that were able to live in that super rich oxygen environment. Up to like four foot long centipedes and huge dragonflies and such that could bring oxygen through their skin. Here again, if I say something wrong biologically, let me know as well. And then as the oxygen decreased a little bit, they had to get smaller. But if you look at through history, you'll see that the natural changes that have made the most difference are things like plate tectonics. Actually in snowball earth, the reason why it warmed up again was because of volcanism from plate tectonics. In fact, lava has played a big lava fields have played an enormous role in extinctions, particularly the Deccan field in India and vast lava fields in Siberia. And other places have affected the atmosphere and the temperatures and a large role. A little smaller time scale, but no less important, particularly for the ice ages have been the fact that the earth's orbit is not circular and the fact that the earth's tilt is variable. The moon has helped a lot to keep the moon's tilt from becoming too radically different like some of the planets we see in our solar system. Right now it's 23 and a half degrees, but it does vary more or less. And that allows more sun to reach the poles or the equator. If it were, if we were had no tilts at all, you can imagine that the poles would be really cold and the equator would be too hot to live. And so have two areas basically the earth, the atmosphere and the southern atmosphere where there was no exchange basically biologically that would have created an enormous change in the earth. So those are some natural variations in or natural causes for variation in the earth's history. However, animals and plants have done have contributed at a huge amount, a lot more than humans have. As I mentioned, photosynthetic singular organisms, which are represented by the stromatolites that you find fossilized in Australia in particular and in other parts of the world were responsible, primarily responsible for bringing us oxygen and turning the sky from basically reddish to the blueish we see today and creating large deposits of iron that we find in the ground. So oxygen cycle, carbon cycle, plants. Now can anyone here again I want to make sure everybody's awake out there. Could I don't see any chatting. So can you think of any plants or animals today that affect the earth more than humans. Yeah, okay. Anyone's yeah bees okay very good bees plankton for sure plank there's a if we didn't have plankton we would be in the heck of a trouble you could be people people for sure I'll be talking about that in a minute. If we if we have to talk or if we talk about the Anthropocene Epic that is how humans affected we need to talk about everything involved it's much more sophisticated. How about ants. And are on almost every millimeter of soil in the world. Large animals produce a lot of methane as a byproduct of eating the bacteria of course both nitrogen fixing and other bacteria and single cell organisms make up a large part of life and the soil. We are part of our ecology roaches. Yeah. Now roaches actually would die off pretty quickly if humans die. I don't know if anyone saw the special on about what happens if humans disappeared things like roaches wouldn't be around for too long. Yeah, I know roaches. Termites there's a lot of interesting animals that play a large part obviously the huge forest and things and the carbon sumps basically the ocean itself is able to absorb a lot of carbon and such so it's no more Twinkies. Well, that's very funny if anybody saw the movie wally. I thought it was very funny that the little cockroach was around and buried through a Twinkie that seemed to be the only food left on earth. It's very funny that they decided to pick that. These are some of my slides. If we think about it, it's only been the last few hundred million years that we've had plants and animals and such. And so here's a few slides to depict that time period. Essentially, you got plants and animals inhabiting the land, changing the atmosphere a lot. Plants and animals dying and creating coal and oil deposits that we would later reuse for fuel. Yeah. These are the whimsical drawings which I made back for the March 2008 presentation. So I hope you like them. And mass extinctions has been really about six or seven extinctions where almost 90% of the world's life has disappeared. In fact, actually even for the dinosaur one, like the one that says, uh oh, the world was having some problems back there anyway. But when the asteroid hit, we had a big asteroid hit in the area of what is now Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico, around 67. Yeah. Oh, I haven't read that one. I'll have to take a look. But, uh, and it was large enough to create essentially what we called a nuclear winter or what would be similar to a nuclear wind. And everything above five kilograms died. And luckily at that time our ancestors mammals were below five kilograms as were some birds and other animals to survive. And after the dinosaurs, the birds took over and then the mammals after that. And it's really been fairly recently that humans have come into existence. Now, usually when we talk about changes like the Anthropocene, we talk about greenhouse gases and temperature. So let me talk about that a little bit because it's important, but it's not the only way that we're changing the planet. Not the only way that you can see evidence of humans rivaling or paralleling natural causes. So, carbon dioxide has been going up. Heating has been going up. Now, bear in mind that if you look at the upper left, you'll see that temperatures have changed quite a bit over a long period of time, thousands of years here. We've been coming out of a little ice age back when a couple hundred years ago or a few hundred years ago is a lot colder in Europe. Back a few thousand years ago, particularly in the beginning of the agricultural time period, it was much warmer. And that's how once the ice, the ice in Europe and the permanent big ice sheets melted, then people were able to extend into that area and the Sahara got wetter. And so we've been coming out of some of these periods and so it's been become a warmer and more carbon dioxide and such. But you have to remember how fast things are happening. That's one of the keys, by the way, is how fast things are. Yes, we've had more carbon dioxide. Yes, it's been warmer all that. But do you really want to return to the carbonific? Yes, and we'll talk about that in a second. What that means, but do you really want to return to the swamps of the high end periods with the big insects or way the earth look when the dinosaurs were here? If we did return to those periods where they're either more oxygen or less oxygen, temperature or carbon dioxide, essentially the plants and animals that exist today could not exist in those time periods. And that's really the message here. It's not, yes, the earth was different in times past, but we're making changes. Yeah. Yes, if there were cats, which I guess there were relationships later to cats relatives. But the idea is that we don't want to, there's a lot of plants and animals today, which are very sensitive to things like ocean acidity, temperature. And we don't necessarily want to ourselves make those changes that fast. Yeah, that's a big enough to eat students and also the rival birds. I was watching something where the saber tooth tigers came in and at that time the birds were the nasty big animals. And the saber tooth tigers could finally take them on. Yes. Yeah, we don't want big snakes like that. Carbon dioxide right now is about what it was 20 million years ago. We really want to return to some of those time periods. So, let's take a look then. Not necessarily at temperature and carbon dioxide, but basically how are human back in the earth. Well, this gentleman here, Paul Crootson and a Dutch Nobel Prize winning atmospheric scientist propose now he's one of the first one to propose this people back in. Well, that's a very good question does affect the genes. And we'll take a look at that. But in any case of Paul Crootson, he wasn't the first person there are people in the 1800s ago. Wow, we are really doing number on the earth. But Paul Crootson in 2002 in a prestigious magazine or journal. Nature proposed that we were not only impacting the earth because like I said everything impacts the earth. Early humans impacted North America and Russia and places by eliminating most of the mega fauna. In other words, the big animals. And that definitely affected things but there weren't quite as many humans back at that time. But today, our population is growing. It's doubled at least since I was born. And it's continuing to grow and we're continuing to impact the earth or with technology as as countries become richer. A lot of the Asian countries now are populations general population is becoming wealthier and becoming consumer societies just like the West has been for a long time. And that's affecting things you can see that in China, most recently with their economy booming with car pollution. Other things, although they've gone to a more sustainable energy sources. But in any case he proposed that. Oh, okay. Crootson suggested that we not only were impacting the earth, but we were impacting the earth. As much as natural cause now somebody suggests that we ought to be called instead of necessarily Anthropocene, but at least the great acceleration that is. We are as much of an effect of things changing right now as nature. But then if we want to call instead of the Holocene, if we want to call this the Anthropocene epic, how do we know it's changing? In other words, a million years from now, whoever is on the earth, whether it's humans or the next intelligent species. How could they know we were here? Well, I think it was day Miami back in the early part of our conversation here that suggested that it ought to be called the plastic. Plastic scene or Plastica scene. And that's really one of the ways I have a feeling there'll be plastics around for a long time styrofoam plastics. So somebody will be looking at the earth and go, wow, look at this layer. All of a sudden there's a lot of plastic here. But when would people be able to detect our changes? Well, what about the beginning agriculture? What about industrial age? In other words, detecting large quantities of carbon dioxide in the ice fields that come from the 1800s and into the 1900s. What about the first atomic test? Some people have said that you can definitely detect uranium in the atmosphere worldwide. And so it will also occur in the rock layers the same way as. Okay, here again. This is the who's awake out there. Well, yeah. Yes, particularly if we don't do anything about it. Unless that's our plan is to is to make the earth. Incompatible for the species living right now. But does anyone remember the name of the element that was a telltale sign of the big asteroid hitting the earth back 67 million years ago. You can find it throughout a layer all the way through. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was Michael last time early. Yes. Yeah. And those are not very common on earth, but you, but they are more common in that asteroid and you can tell. Okay. Yeah, my first degree was it's chemistry. And I remember the Alvarez father son team, which was very interesting because one was a physicist and one was a archaeologist or whatever. And they got together to go. Oh, my goodness. This explains that very cool. Okay, so what I find kind of hard to believe is why people don't find it difficult to understand that we are changing the world. I mean, everything changes. That's changed, etc. But we are also changing it to a degree that we're rivaling nature or perhaps changing it more than nature does as well. Yeah, that's going to become an interesting problem. Actually, the base debris, they've got proposed missions to go up and try to get rid of some of that. I think China has one, for example. And yes, of course, if you go up into space, you would see lights from the cities and fires and lights where they're fishing out in the ocean and such. If you go over to the moon, you'd see evidence of humans. If you go to Mars, you'd see evidence of human. Not to mention the little spacecrafts that have left the sun's gravity. Okay, so let's take a look then at back 10 years ago as suggesting some of the types of evidence that we have for. Yes, we are. And that's absolutely true. In other words, what we're looking at is we are nature. I guess what I'm saying is not that is that humans are rivaling the natural causes other than human activity. In other words, if you didn't have humans and you compared changes, you'd see that we were accelerating some of those changes, even though, of course, those changes are going on. In other words, coming out of the lysage, which was caused by one of the or contributed to by one of those cycles, that sort of thing. But we are indeed changing things to degree. How are we changing things? Well, one of the here are. Are several instances. One of the things that Europe should be concerned about is that why is Europe warm in general. One of our speakers or one of the members in the first presentation mentioned that it had snowed in Rome for the first time in a while. So individual what we have to remember is that there's a lot of variability on earth. And SR mentioned the idea of global warming. Well, what does global warming mean? Let me ask a question for the audience. Does global warming mean it's getting warmer everywhere on earth? I hear people. Yeah, that's right. In other words, what really we should say is global warming is an average increase. In other words, yes, good. Okay, differential warming. In other words, in some places like the poles, it's definitely getting warmer than it has been in the past. In other areas, it's getting drier. In other areas, getting wetter. In other areas, it's actually cooling a little bit. But overall, if you. Yes, overall. Yes, you're correct. All of those. Well, not for long. In other words, you have to kind of look at some of the areas where it's actually getting a tiny bit cooler. But overall, it's getting warmer. In other words, if you were to take the temperature of the earth, it's getting warmer. In older houses without good insulation, the thermostat if I mean the heater or air conditioning maybe in the middle and rooms that are have more sun beating on the roof may be warmer and then other parts of the room may be cooler. And but in general, the thermostat, if you look at what the temperature is in the house, that's the average temperature in the house. The same thing. Yes. And Lyle, you guys are all doing having some excellent. Now, by the way, with the mall dives and other things you have to remember that one of the things that happens when the ocean gets warmer is that the sea levels rise not only because the ice melts in Antarctica and Greenland and in stuff. But remember the ice that's on top of the water is not going to increase the level of the ocean. It's the grounded ice. It's the ice that's coming off of the of the land that's going to increase the sea level. And it's increasing slowly, but it's increasing more because the water is also heating up and as water heats up, it will increase in volume. That's contributing to it. Yeah, tornado in Germany, as you mentioned, which is really unusual now. I live in Texas tornadoes here are pretty common. I mean, they're scary, but they're pretty common. We had one last year right in the middle of our city and it's people in the city. And so the idea is that overall it's getting warmer. And let's let me in fact, let me show you the next slide for a second and then go back but on the next slide. The last 400 months in a row on earth have been warmer than the average in the 20th century. That's something interesting. To be said, let me, in fact, let's take a look at some of the things on this page and then I'll go back is one of the things that you don't hear much is the overpopulation. When I was younger, when I was in college, for example, the 70s overpopulation was mentioned a lot. And we don't hear it very much. But like I said, the population on earth is twice what it was when I was born, and it tends to pressure the areas around it. We have any more cities and people living in cities, areas where overpopulation is a problem or population rates is a problem where they can't support the population. That becomes quite a bit of an issue because you start running out of food and water and pressures of population. As we mentioned earlier, plastic is a real issue and runoff. We've got areas of the middle of the Pacific that are almost the size of the United States that are filled with microplastics. You just have to dip a cup of water in the ocean and put it under a microscope and you can see microplastics. Yeah. Well, now there you, this is a tricky topic. Why, for example, should people in India or China with large populations not be able to drive cars and do everything else with people in the west? The problem is with large populations like that, unless they're smarter than a lot of the western countries, they're going to run into bigger problems because of the larger populations and they're going to be, they're going to add to the population in the air. And so basically, some of the countries there can, as they become wealthier, they'll have to make more smarter choices than people like, say, for example, the United States where I live. Habitats are disappearing as we spread out. Countries also have larger impacts. Let me show you what those maps mean. If you take a look at the maps on this page, they're kind of distorted, but the map up at the other, here again, I'm going to ask you a question here. The map up at the upper right represents population, not size of country. So which areas there do you see with most population? Yeah, for one, the large green area. This is just one of my teacher moments here where I have to make sure everybody's awake. Africa in the middle, little bit of Europe and Indonesia and the Americas and such. But yes, now that, yes, take a look at that. SR has a very good point is now take a look at the map at the bottom right, and you will see the impact of each nation based on how much they consume and their carbon footprint. If you'll notice that India is not the largest carbon footprint, even with the large population, you'll notice that, for example, China with its exploding economy is starting to make a big difference. US is making a tremendous difference. So for example, in the US, if we decide not to play with others as far as helping out with the carbon footprint, it can make an enormous difference. Here again, if you actually look at that, you'll see that the US alone can make the difference of almost like four planets. In Europe as well, in other words, that's kind of funny. Texas, of course, makes an enormous difference because of the amount of oil. I think right now, I heard something about Texas creating more oil than almost any other places on Earth right now. And Texas is the size of France, so it doesn't make a huge difference. California, for example, has the fifth largest economy in the world right behind US, China, and Japan. So yes, each of these areas makes a tremendous difference. Now let's also take a look then at some of the other ways that we are affecting the Earth. We mean humans, and remember, of course, we are part of nature. It's just that humans have a capacity to affect the natural order of things more, polar ice melting, and jeopardizing coastal cities. And remember that when the pole ice melts, particularly in the north, what happens is that since it's not white anymore and can't bounce the radiation back, it essentially then goes into the oceans there, so it heats up even faster with the polar ice gone, not to mention, of course, problems with animals that live up there and people that live up there, polar bears and the Inuit. And native peoples in Russia and stuff. GDP and population. Yeah, I would say that if you kind of like multiply GDP and population, I think it has a multiple applicative effect. You'd have kind of impact. That's that's approximately, but that's all based on what decisions we make. In other words, if you make good decisions about how you impact things just because you're wealthy doesn't necessarily mean you have to waste things would be better off. Notice that things like mangrove swamps, things we might not even think about are being destroyed and they have large implications for the ecology in that area. Extension rates in rainforests or thousands of 10,000 times the natural rate that we have we have seen over time. Global war or let's just say climate change is intensifying storms and rains and droughts. Yes, there you go. Second, we have statistics of. Yeah, and SR you're you're correct and India can play an enormous role right now in what kind of decisions rate. Okay. In other words, do you go down the same path that everybody else has? Or can you make decisions which are. affect. The earth and yet allow people in India to reap the benefits. Yeah, planet friendly reap the benefits of becoming wealthier. It's, it's, it's a big choice. Migration and growing cycles remember that that's important in a lot of times the temperatures and the where they can people are excuse me where plants or where animals and birds and stuff can find food. They can change things greatly sometimes they're dependent on each other. In other words, you have birds which migrate hoping to find food in different places but if the temperature changes and such then they have to chain their migration cycles. There's a lot of interweaving effects. It can also affect food crops for humans as well as for animal. Okay, that's good. That's good here again. It's important for countries with large populations in Asia, Africa. In particular to make smart choices the future. Ocean production be we know that. Acidity in the ocean is killing coral reefs which are a huge ecological. It's important place also. See the creatures like plankton that have carbonate exoskeletons. Remember also that warming of. I'm trying to think of the word what's the frozen ground called. Tundra okay, but yeah, permafrost that's what I was thinking. Yeah, Tundra and permafrost remember that there's a lot of math things trapped in there. Same thing with the sea bands as the as warm as those areas warm. We're going to release methane, which is a much more potent greenhouse gas and it's going to have a huge effect on. How the temperature increases. Yep, absolutely. And we know that right now we've we've seen that. So the idea is. That when we talk about the Anthropocene epic. The first thing we have to understand is that anything living eating breathing. Pooping reproducing whatever has an impact on earth, but. How much in the case of humans, we can change our impact if we choose. We can also have an enormously negative impact or nor enormous. Impact, which is negative to our current ecology. Or even our own way of life, but this is all a choice. Yes, there are natural processes going on. But if you'll notice what humans are doing, we're changing things in the order of decades or centuries, not a thousand years, 10,000, 100,000 millions of years. And we don't really know how that's going to impact the earth. All we know is that it's happening slower than some people. View so that they don't see the changes. There's a analogy and I don't know how universal it is, but it's the idea of the frog in the boiling pot of water. Anybody know about that? Yeah, and that basically SR, if we were to go to say, for example, instead of oil based plastics, we were to go to. Other. Biodegradable plastics or other ones made of materials. Cellulose based excellent. If we were to go to some of those based ones, we would be far better off. And we would use less fossil fuels and such. Pectin based. Exactly. There's some good studies on both of those. Okay. And I think I asked a question in there, but I forgot. Yes. Okay. So does everybody know the thing about the frog in water? I have a feeling it's kind of a story. It's not a real thing because I don't think it would work. Frankly, but the idea with the frog is that if you throw frog, of course, don't do this at home. If you throw frog and boiling water, it will hop out. Great. Okay. But if you slowly raise the water under the frog, it might be boiling before the frog realizes it's boiling. Well, that analogy is used for the global climate change as well. In other words, people go, you know, agree here to agree that it's not really doing this because, hey, it snowed in Rome or it was really hot or whatever. But if you look at it over time over decades or century, you'll see that yes, indeed it is getting warmer. That's what the average global warming, yes, in some places the climate is changing. And do we have to have it basically beyond our ability of fixing things? Right now, I don't think we can fix things. I think that we're stuck with the carbon dioxide and we can simply limit how hot it does get and how soon it gets. Yes, it has. It has happened many times in the geological timeline. But remember, do we want to go back to those timelines? Can the critters today and the plants and stuff live in the timelines with that much carbon dioxide, that much heat, that much oxygen, that sort of thing? Do we want a world where the plants and animals we know today, including our food crops, cannot live? Do we want our coastal cities to be underwater? Do we want places that humans can support millions of people now to be uninhabitable? Like they're talking about the mid-east, for example. Those are the types of things we need to be asking. Yes, indeed it has happened many, many times, but do we want to cause it? Do we want it to accelerate those things that will happen in the past and will happen in the future? Yeah, and that's the part of the issue. And even if it hasn't been as severe, do we want to change our world to where we can't live in place in certain places where our food crops can't support the millions of people? Exactly. Now, of course, there's always a way for the Earth to relate its population. That's for people to die, which may happen if we run out of water or food and stuff. That may not be the way we want to regulate population. We can also regulate them through war. This may again not be the way we want to go. So here again, we are changing things. And yeah, you're right. The planet is going to be here at least for a billion years. They figure a billion years from now. I think the sun is going to become warm enough to boil off oceans and such. And so it's going to be uninhabitable anyway, but a billion years is a long time. And we certainly don't want it to happen within the lifetimes of our great-great-grandkids. And, you know, right now we don't know of any place to go. I mean, I suppose you can go live on Mars, but Mars is not as habitable as this place. And it certainly can't support seven or eight billion people. So we have options, and some of the options are not as good as others. Loons on Venus, I've heard that one well. Very costly options in some cases. It would be a whole lot less costly if we simply made some eco-friendly decisions right now. So that's kind of the discussion that I have for today. The big part of the discussion today is we are making changes. Yes, there are natural, thank you. There are natural things going on and they're going to go on. And because we've got cycles in, they take electronics, we've got cycles. Like, for example, about, let's see, it wasn't that long ago, about five million years that the Mediterranean was dry. There was no opening at Gibraltar and the whole Mediterranean had dried up. Many years from now there will be a Mediterranean because the Africa will slam up into Europe. Now, remember in Europe that the, what we don't want to happen is, for example, the Gulf Stream to fail. Because the reason Europe, which is pretty far north is as warm as it is, is because of the Gulf Stream. If we have too much melt ice off of Greenland and connect the salinity and the Gulf Stream, you can have some really problems in Europe. It's going to get a bit older there. Things like that, or deserts getting much drier. I mean, those are the types of things that will happen if, and may happen again, but do we want that to happen in our lifetimes? Yeah, political action. Sometimes people don't want to believe that things are happening, but then it's not a belief, there's evidence. You can believe whatever you want, that's fine, but there's evidence to the contrary. Change is hard for humans, and that's very, very true. We don't want to have changes going on. So many. Bye-bye. Have a good day. Die. Okay. Yeah, that's true. Frankly, you can expect, particularly as populations get larger and climate changes and such. There's a lot of, I've told my students, you know, the next few decades are going to be very interesting. Maybe not in the good way sometimes, maybe in a good way. Maybe we'll all, there'll be revolutions technologically, revolutions socially that are positive. I'm not too happy about the 21st century so far. Just like the beginning of the 20th century. If you go by that calendar, obviously there's different calendars too, but yeah, and definitely will increase conflicts if would act as a team. The EU is one of the best examples of team effort where people were fighting each other only a century ago, and now people are cooperating. Even though there's strains there because of the different cultures. But these are all decisions. These are all things we can choose or choose not to do. Yeah, maybe you live in an interesting time. Okay, so it's 55 minutes in and I'm going to call it a presentation and I really appreciate. I really appreciate everybody coming today. And have some cake. Celebrate. Thank you for coming. That's a very interesting question to yes, if you actually look at the sun the sun, one of the great things we've learned in the last couple hundred years is that there's almost nothing, which is constant. Or so called perfect like circles the the sun is growing warmer. The, because it's aging. In other words, it's burning hydrogen it's actually becoming a bit warmer. The sun is going away about a centimeter. I think it's a centimeter per year. In other words, the earth day is getting longer, which means there'll be more changes. Back in the dinosaur days it was actually an hour earlier. In other words, it was only like 23 hours in a day or four. And there's a lot of changes like that, which are making a big difference. So sun, as I mentioned about a billion years from now the sun will be more will be redder and larger and warmer so that yeah red giant so that the, the oceans don't even worry about acidity the oceans are going to boil off. So we've only got about a billion years left for life but billion years long time, but you can mess things up long before then. The, the subject is really large and very complicated and very important. I mean, there's no other place to live right now and we have to be both educated and intelligent in their decisions. Yeah, and as Mike pointed out, yes, the sun's rate of change is very slow to make a difference is a lot of cyclic happening a lot sooner. For example, historically we haven't had ice caps. And of course now we do so we're really in kind of a larger area over millions of years of series of ice ages. Yeah, in a bite of maybe by a billion years we'll be able to move planets or something who knows, or find a better planet to live as we know. Actually, in my lifetime I would love to know whether there is now for me I know there's life somewhere else. Whether there's intelligent life, who knows, but there's probably planets we can go to such like that there may be even places in the solar system we can. In my lifetime I'd love to find out that there's something else out there that's alive, other than what we have on earth may very well find that out on either Mars or some of the big moons around Jupiter. Well, that or they could just take us over and go, okay, you guys have messed things up. We'll just take over from here. Yeah, and we've we have found that there's ice on the moon solar cap and carbon dioxide ice and and ice up in Mars and even Mercury. Yeah, we just had now remember on that one we have to more intelligent than robots to this. It's when the AI when you have AI property of being able to think on their own and possibly to make their. Yeah, so it should be very interesting. It's very interesting time. Think about Second Life right now the big thing about Second Life is look at where everybody's from just in this one little section this one time this one day. There's people from all over the world that are represented right here. I mean, humanity has such potential such good things they can do and it's just a matter of making this. I'm always amazed. I love coming in here and talking to you guys. And it just gives me such an innovative mind and I got it. I got to tell you there's so many things going on in the world that you can get really disinherited, but. Science circle is not one of them. And so I encourage you to talk amongst yourself. I encourage you to become educated on these topics. And I definitely will wrap it up now because we try to wrap it up about guess they try to wrap it up about an hour into the presentations and I wish you guys all a great day. And there's no reason why you can't stay and talk. I got to go. I have things I got to do. Take care. I'm glad you all came today. And as Chantel just mentioned is we continue to have presentations come. They're great.