 And those personal relationships, both with the Rootserver Operators and with the TLD Delegate Operators. And it was actually extremely unfortunate. It was a formative event also when he passed. Because he didn't get the chance, even though that was the plan, he didn't get the chance to do the personal work of turning his personal relationships into institutional ones. And there was a great deal of trouble and discomfort and distrust that followed from the fact that he wasn't able to be part of that process. Because there was a certain amount of, I can, what's that? And you guys, who are you and why should I listen to you? Well, so let me ask a kind of provocative question here. So it's extremely unfortunate, no question, that John passed away sort of on the eve of the formal start of ICANN. So that's an event heard around the world and everybody knows that that's not good.