 All right. I've got, I've got everyone tonight. Welcome to the Amherst Conservation Commission meeting. April 27, 2022, 705 p.m. First item on the agenda is comments from the chair per usual. I'll just kind of give you guys a. Overview of what the meeting tonight will be like. We have only one hearing. So the Brian Waterman, the 730 hearing is going to be continued because we didn't get the revised materials until the end of the day. Yesterday, yesterday. And so I'm really trying to draw a line there because I find that these hearings, even if they seem simple, if we don't have the time, if Aaron and I don't have the time to digest them and kind of anticipate what's going on, it's hard to keep the meeting efficient and, you know, within bounds. So we asked him to, to request a continuance and he agreed. So that hearing will be continued. The ever source hearing we're on. So that's our one hearing for tonight. And then if you guys recall, we have the executive session at the end of this meeting. So we'll make at the end of our agenda, we'll make a motion for the executive session and then we'll stop the recording and we'll start a new recording. And that will be closed to the public to discuss the zero tuckerman lane enforcement. I think that's pretty much what I have. Oh, and as a reminder, we have our special meeting for the bylaws on next Wednesday, the 4th, May 4th, right? Yeah. So keep that, that's going to be, that's an unusual time. So we're going to have three meetings in a row here. So please keep that in mind. Aaron and I, you know, we're going to have three meetings in a row. So we're going to have three meetings in a row. So the Roy and Michelle have done a ton of work for that. And I know we have a lot to cover for that meeting. So Aaron and I are discussing like how, how what the most efficient way to do that is. But it's also really exciting because I think there's been a ton of progress and like feeling a bunch of holes that have made our jobs more difficult. So it's exciting. Thank you. Roy and Michelle and Aaron. Sounds like that's been a ton of time. So that's what I had. Yeah. So it's a primary purpose for that meeting outside input or us. Next week. So it's a public meeting. So it's outside input. Yeah, but it's the, you know, it's our chance, you know, all of our discussion of the bylaws really has to be in this public forum. So it's, it's really our chance to see where we are and discuss, give feedback and discuss what's gone on in the subcommittee. And as a reminder, all of those meetings are also on YouTube. So anytime Aaron and the Roy and Michelle met to talk about the bylaws, those are also on YouTube. So if people are interested or audio, you know, absorbers, and that's a good way for you to understand this information. That's a good place to look before that meeting next week. If that's what works best for you. Yeah. Can Aaron send us a link? I can send you a link to our channel. Yes. Awesome. Thanks Aaron. But that's really exciting. But that's what I have. Those are my updates. I think I went for a really nice walk at Podic. It looks so good. The trails out there. I can make time. It was, it's a great loop. That's, that's my update. Dave, do you have anything to report? Yeah, just a couple of quick, quick, quick updates. Yeah. Just while, while you mentioned Podic, we still have to complete. There'll be a new kiosk out there and we, you know, we got going on the parking area last fall and that's probably 70% complete. We've got some cleanup to do out there, you know, there's still a lot of wood chip, a big wood chip pile out there. And we're going to kind of repurpose some of there's, there's an old donated. Some old donated. Yeah. Materials out there that we need to kind of repurpose and, and we'll get going on that. So, but yeah, that was great. What's that? I thought it was great. Oh, good. Yeah. It's, it's a lot of ticks out there. So I'll be on the lookout. So I'll be with you most of the night. I'm on a deadline for the town on another project. So I may have my video off and just kind of working, but I will chime in as needed, if needed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Number one, this Saturday, the 30th, we do have a townwide community cleanup. And some of the sites will be conservation areas. I think Amethyst Brook is on the list. Lower Mill River, Puffer's pond, Hickory Ridge. I am going to be at Hickory Ridge with a group. You can get more information. I don't have all the details, but there's information. I don't know if you can get that out. I think it's from 10 to noon on Saturday. And I think we have over a hundred people signed up already. So school groups and UMass groups, college groups. You name it. So that's being organized by the town. And there's various, um, way, various places where people can meet. I think Mill River rec is one area. Groff Park is another. So, um, it'd be nice to get some winter trash cleaned up. Um, We're Erin and I and Beth Wilson from DPW are keeping an eye on the faring Brook, um, work down at the Fort River farm conservation area. It's looking really good. Grass is growing. All the plantings are growing. I know that, um, There's an Amherst college group that is doing some, they did some pre, uh, they're doing pre and post. Water quality monitoring down there. Um, and we want to do some sort of a ribbon cutting or some sort of a acknowledgement of that project. So stay tuned on that. I think what we want to try to do is. Is get the community gardens down at Fort River farm going at the same time and maybe combine those two events. Um, so Stephanie, Gicarello and I and others are working on the community gardens. I think I've mentioned there's a great group from related to help healthy Hampshire that is helping down there. If you haven't been down there recently, there's raised beds going in. There's black plastic to kill some of the, the, um, the grass and, and a sod that's built up over the last couple of years where we're pairing the, the community farm fencing. We're doing a little work session out there with staff tomorrow afternoon. So, um, we'll have more on that in the coming weeks. Our goal is to have the community gardens open hopefully, or at least available first week in June, you know, Memorial Day or first week in June. So you'll hear more about that and we'll keep our fingers crossed that we can get everything done out there. Just other projects that are moving along the dog park. If you haven't been, you know, this is a project that was permitted through the commission, CPA funds and, um, uh, private funds from the Stanton foundation really moving along. This project got bogged down in COVID and, and, and supply chain issues, but, um, they're really making a lot of progress. Again, this will not likely open until fall, but it'll be complete. We need to let the grass grow. And for all the reasons, uh, we, we all work hard on like erosion control and, and, uh, safeguarding water and streams and, and the pond, uh, the, the kettle pond near the dog park, but they're paving the walkways tomorrow and, um, and parking area. We've got P stone up there and top soil going in. So take a look on Belcher, down road. It's pretty exciting to see that project that was permitted through the commission and funded in various ways across the street. The landfill project, which was also permitted through the commission apart, you know, and ZBA and other boards and committees. Um, they are very close to completing all of the installation of the panels. And so again, we'll probably be having some sort of a rimming cunning on that project. I think it's just over three megawatts. Stephanie Chikarello has worked really hard on that, on that project. Um, associated with that is an, is a fence that is going up around the south landfill near the dog park. That fence will do two things. It will safeguard the habitat there for grasshoppers, sparrows, which was a requirement of the natural heritage program. And it will also safeguard, of course, the cap for the, um, the, the, uh, the south landfill. So that project is, uh, that fence will be going up. I imagine in a month or so, uh, three to six weeks. So that'll get great protection for the small population of, of, uh, state listed grasshopper sparrows that we have had off and on using the landfills, both landfills through the years. Um, what else? Uh, Hickory solar. Uh, Erin and I were out there. We were kicking off, uh, doing a project kickoff with amp energy. Uh, we, we had a, uh, walk and talk with them, kind of a kickoff to the project with all, all departments on deck, DPW inspection services, planning, um, conservation, et cetera, walking around with their team, talking about their timeline. Uh, we're kind of firming up that timeline. As you can imagine, solar companies are dealing with supply chain issues as well. Um, labor issues, delivery, uh, uh, delays, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, we'll have more on that. There's no hard and fast start date on that, but they will be getting going. I just reached out to natural heritage today and said, we'd like to have some conversations with them about kind of our end of the bargain out there at Hickory Ridge. Um, of course the company has to work on the mitigation, the 17 plus or minus acres of mitigation out there, replanting of the floodplain, et cetera, et cetera. So lots of things kind of kicking off and getting going. Um, I think I'll stop there. Any questions? Aaron and I have a kind of a backlog of projects. Once some things are through, through you and through her, um, we've got a whole host of other projects and issues we want to bring to your attention, having to do with conservation land and trails and signage and you name it. But, um, Aaron has put the brakes on me, uh, you know, bringing too many things to her, uh, until you get some of these things completed. So that's just a joke. She's working hard as always. I do have a question about, um, with the community gardens, was there a sign up for those? Um, we have something about all that and. You can contact Angela Mills. Um, um, there is something on, on the town website, Angela Mills and Stephanie, and Stephanie Giccarello are now working on the sign up for that. We have healthy Hampshire representatives. Um, I remember we had a problem with issues with people not signing up. So that's what I'm trying to get at it. Are they going to beat the birds? Yeah, they'll be. So right now we really have two official community gardens. One is at Amethyst Brook and that one is pretty much full. There's 10 or 12 plots there. Um, and so we're channeling everybody else to, um, to Fort River Farm. Yeah. This will be, um, what's the terms kind of sweat equity? I mean, this is not going to be just arrive and, and plant your vegetables, you know, put your bees in the ground or something. You know, this is going to be, people are going to have to work these plots. It's going to take some time to, you know, the raised beds will be one thing, but there'll be also a number of just, uh, 10 by 10 and 10 by 20 plots, you know, in the ground. And those are going to take some time to really, you know, improve the soil and, and, um, you know, get them going. So, um, and all of those signups are going through, um, Angela Mills in the town manager's office and she, she does work closely with us in conservation. But we'll be offering a number of those to low and moderate income individuals and families and down, keeping the cost very low to, to, um, access those. And then we're also offering anyone who used to, um, have a, uh, uh, uh, plot at Mill, uh, Mill Lane. We're offering those people a place at Fort River Farm, kind of first in line. So if we have a member of, um, an attendee from the public with a hand raised, would you be willing to, um, if they have a question to remain to your update, would you be willing to take it? Sure. I would. Lastly. I just wanted to let you know that I met with DPW and the, uh, new sidewalk on Mill Lane, which again, part of the permitting came through you all. The funding came through the CDBG program. Um, that project is getting underway next week. So that's one of the platform looking at the Fort River. Okay. Yeah. Really exciting to get that project going. Um, I think I can say that it's a local contractor. It'll be Taylor Davis doing the work and, um, really excited to get that project going and, and have better access for everyone trying to get to Groff Park safely with their family strollers, jogging, walking, running, whatever. That's great. I'm happy to take a quick question if it's something. Yeah. Related to the update. Yeah. Tom Hardy, I see you have your hand up. I'm going to allow you to talk. If you have any questions specifically about Dave's update, please go ahead. Hi. Sorry to drop in. I'm just a senior for me to ask. And I have to sit in on one of these for, uh, for a couple of my, my classes. I just had a quick question. I see that this meeting is recorded. Is that available later on the town site? Yes. Yeah. We have a YouTube channel. If you go to the town of Amherst conservation commission webpage. Um, and the right, right hand bar, um, at the bottom, there's a link to the, um, YouTube channel. And all of our. I'm sorry about that. Thanks so much. No problem. That's it for me. Okay. Thanks, Tom. Uh, okay. All right. Thanks for the update, Dave. Um, so. Let me get the agenda up in front of me. Um, So seven 20. So the next one we had is land management. And it sounds like we can meet and hear an update from the conservation intern. Is that still on the agenda, Aaron? Yes. Yeah. I put the land management in there just as a catch all in case of anything to talk about, but I'm going to promote Haley. Um, Kohler to a panelist. Haley, um, started as an intern in January. Um, And has been. Incredibly helpful to me. Um, This is Haley Haley. This is the commission. Um, And Haley put together a little PowerPoint presentation. Um, To share with you all and Haley, I don't know if you want to present that or if you want me to pull it up on my side. I can, I can get it up just so you don't have to like, um, Scroll through things. Let me just share my screen real quick. Well, you're pulling that up, Haley. I'm just going to announce for the benefit of the other people in the meeting. Um, And that's just an update that if you're here for the notice of intent by Brian Waterman of Waterman design group from Monague Road solar. Um, that this is 285 Central and road. That hearing is going to be continued till next. Our next meeting, our next regular meeting, which is on May 11. Um, so if you're here for the 285, Solar project that hearing we will not discuss that hearing tonight. So please keep an eye on our website check the agenda for the timing of that hearing on May 11. And we'll try to start the RDA for the ever source project as close to 735 as possible just wanted to let everyone know quickly. Okay, sorry Haley thank you. No worries. I'll just get this in the presentation mode. All right, is that showing up for everyone. Perfect. Okay, awesome. So kind of just to go through. I've been working with Aaron since January. Basically, trying to digitize the wetland file logs. So kind of start off to do that. Let me a bunch of these papers that had wetland file logs from 1980 to 2021. And the task with that was to make it into an Excel is like 1000 point Excel and organize them by year so if you can see here that's kind of like a little snippet of what the Excel looks like and how we were organizing the files. Basically, once we had the Excel ready, we went to the archives where there's all the wetland files, and there are about 37 boxes of all the files and basically Aaron would go through, pull up files and I would record the DEP numbers. And then we put in a certificate of compliance or completion, and put that in the Excel as well and there was also a few files we found that were not already recorded on different papers that we put I put into the Excel. And basically, as you can see, there's 37 boxes so it wasn't really. It was a lot of time to go through all of them we only ended up getting through 12 so with the next 12 boxes. What I did was we went through the boxes and found the first and last no eyes, and then I went back to the Excel and found where those would be and basically color coded them. So that way, if you were looking for this file that had an NOI within the range of box 18, you would know, because it would be color coded green. So yeah just a little bit of information regarding kind of organizing the wetland files and everything. And yeah. So thank you guys for listening to that and thank you Aaron for being so helpful the past few months. You know, Haley glazed over it really quickly it was a ton of work I mean just to just the data entry alone, these records went back to 1972. She entered in manual written logs. And that was like in the first couple weeks that she finished that so it was like okay let's start with project number two we're going to archive the boxes and get a little amount of work and just to put it in perspective, it's when you when you get a request a public records request it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack, because most of the time. I get a DEP file number and all of the boxes were by town file number and so I didn't know there was nothing to tell me what file number was tied with what DEP file number was tied with the town file number. So now we have a system. And anytime I get a public records request it's as simple as me doing a keyword search in that Excel document and I can pinpoint it. And all the boxes are numbered I can find the box pull the file and it's like what took me days to find a file now will be, you know, extremely quick and efficient so I just wanted to say thank you to Haley and since she did this all behind scenes and no one really knew about it or heard about it, I wanted to just make sure that you guys knew that she did this work because it was a huge help to me so thank you so much Haley and I really appreciate it. Nice work Haley. Haley I wish you knew you were doing this. Like giving you pep talks along the way. Thank you for your donuts. Yeah, or something. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, thank you. It was really in the weeds but it does mean a lot in terms of making Aaron's job easier and more efficient, which literally helps everyone in the town of Amherst so thank you very much. And let us know if you need a recommendation or anything from the Amherst. I've definitely been using Aaron for that. Haley is graduating. So, since she finished and accomplished so much more than I thought she would I, and we wrapped up. I just want to say congrats and awesome work and we're here. So, come visit us and, and use us for mentoring and recommendations as Jen said. Yeah, absolutely. So, thank you guys. Bye Haley. Have a good night. Wow. That's amazing. Okay. Anything else before I have 727 and I think I just opened the wrong file. So we have to look should we do you want to talk about anything for three minutes Aaron. Sure. Yeah. There's something that I think a couple things or maybe one or two things we could handle. I got a request for a certificate of compliance for 55 why lack lean. And I did go out and take photos. The site looks fine I was familiar with the site anyways. So the site, the site is totally stable everything is in compliance on the site and so I would recommend that we have a certificate of compliance for the site. Okay. We just need a motion questioners. I move to move that we issue a complete certificate of compliance for 55. Second. That's Leroy on the motion but you're on the second voice vote. Leroy. Hi. Fletcher. Hi. Larry. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Laura. Andre. Hi. And I'm an eye. Excellent. So the second is request for emergency certification for some tree removal removal of six trees at 37 Bay Road and this is related to the failed culvert that goes under the driveway at the Kestrel land trust and we've been working behind the scenes on that as well as far as getting all our ducks in a row to replace that culvert. But in advance of that culvert replacement taking place. We do have to have six trees removed around the driveway area and so this certification would just approve the removal of those trees for the culvert replacement. Okay. So we just need a motion. Yes, please. Motion to move to issue an emergency certification for removal of six trees from and failed culvert at 37 Bay Road. Second. That's Laura on the motion. Andre on the second. Leroy. Laura. Hi. Fletcher. Hi. Larry. Hi, Michelle. Hi. Andre, did I say Andre yet? Hi. Hi. Okay, and I'm an eye. Thank you. So Jen did touch on this about our hearing next Wednesday and I just wanted to sort of reiterate what Jen said that changes. Okay. So I'm going to start off by saying here, the markups on the bylaw regulations were about 800 edits, and since we've initiated the bylaw review committee, we've made a tremendous amount more to correct errors. All sorts of changes, improvements, clarity. As much as we can, we're not going to be the last three months we've spent going through that document with a fine tooth comb. So when it comes to the hearing, we're not going to be going through it with a fine tooth comb to explain every single change that is made. I'm going to work to set up a page on our web, the concom website that has the existing regulations, the updated regulations, and then hopefully a document which highlights the changes in the in the document so you can kind of see where the changes were made. And then what I'd like to do is move through section by section, sort of highlight bulleted points of where things change. And then provide, give the opportunity for commissioner comment and public comment during that review, and I'd like to try to get through the entire document again not going through fine tooth comb but more a broad overview of each section and what's changed. That's kind of my, my thought process and my thought of how we could approach that. So I just wanted to give you a quick update and let you know if you are interested in those fine details that it's all all those recordings are on our website. And I will, if anybody wants to link to it I can send it to you or if you want to go in and check it out yourself you're welcome to in advance of the hearings. I think you just answered my first question which was, can we read it before the meeting. My second question and this may this is more to the commissioner actually to the subcommittee. It occurred to me or right, you know, literally you're the vice chair. Would you want to or be interested in running that meeting. Just because you know the content of what we'll be talking about really well and can kind of speed us through where we need to speed through and slow down where we need to slow down. You probably don't have to answer that now but I wanted to throw that out there since you and Michelle have been doing the bulk of this work. Are you having any interest. I'm definitely open to that. I'm open to that believe we have a bylaw on Friday so you want to talk about that dinner. Sure. Yeah, that'd be fun. Okay, and I don't I mean I can be prepared to run it or just let me know guys what you decide. What are the dates following next Wednesday. My idea would be that we'll spend an hour next Wednesday going through it, and then continue it to our first and second meeting. In May, and provide maybe 20 minutes to half an hour during this the second and third meetings to go through it review it. And then we'll allow commissioner comment around allow public comment, and it'll probably take that long, even just to glaze over the sections and the changes. All right. Thanks Aaron. So it's 733 so I think we can move to continue the 285 Sunderland Road hearing. Would you share that slide Aaron just so we can get an accurate motion. Sorry I hadn't switched around in the power. Go ahead. We continue the public hearing for 285 Sunderland Road to May 11, 2022 at 740 p.m. Second. Okay, that's Laura in the motion Larry in the second voice vote Larry. Hi. Leroy. Hi. Fletcher. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Andre. Hi, Laura. Okay. There we go. All right, I have 734 do we have a one minute item. Yeah. I think the town manager is seeking a volunteer to step up to the solar bylaw committee, and the Roy did expressed interest but we had a couple commissioners missing at the last meeting and I don't know if the commission wants to talk about that. Yeah, I think there, we had a particular commissioner in mind who works in solar directly we wanted to make sure if that commissioner had interest in this that she especially an opportunity we also acknowledge that that commissioner is doing CPA so I don't understand if that's not time you have but we just didn't want to make a decision without the fall commission since it's going to be a pretty high profile and not to mention very, very important bylaw so I mean if I want to do it I mean obviously like I have a ton of experience in solar and have been involved in similar committees before. I don't have a ton of time. And I think that if I was going to do this I probably would want to not do the other group, which I haven't even done anything for so if there's been readings I've totally missed them so that's, you know, that's, I'm not sure what the status is there but you know. Yeah, so I think that's my, I think that's my summary. Okay, sorry to put you on the spot Laura. Thanks for sorry to put you on the spot thank you for. Oh no I saw the agenda that was like, okay good. Okay. Dave, is it pop. I'm sure you have some input and guidance here. Was it possible for somebody else to be on CPA. Oh, yeah, very much so so just to answer Laura's question you have not missed any CPA meeting. It was like. They are considering meeting in May but you haven't missed anything. That committee typically the bulk of their work the intensity of their work typically happens from the fall, I would say, you know, October through January early February. And then they, they often don't meet so that's when proposals come in. You know they they come up with their goals and objectives kind of for the year they look at budget spending what they have available etc etc. And I think the solar bylaw that that group. And you know is is as as Jen mentioned going to be you know it's really a year, probably at least a year long commitment. And I think much more intense in terms of the meeting frequency than CPA see, I could see CPA see meeting once in May, and then maybe not until mid fall of 22. Whereas I think the other the other committee is, you know, getting, getting geared up and getting appointed and, you know, moving forward fairly quickly. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good assessment that the solar piece is going to be very, very loaded, you know, I mean it's a pretty controversial matter. So, I mean, listen, I'm willing to do it Leroy if you want to do I'm certainly not trying to step on your toes at all. I just, it's, I'd be willing to do it from a perspective of service. No, I wanted to make sure the position was filled, but I much prefer you to do with your parents background that said, I'm happy to take on CPA. And so I've been everybody of course but I'm much more willing to do that. Much more familiar with history than so to me. Who else is on the bylaw committee Dave right now. They're the appointments are being made now so I actually don't have them off the top of my head I know the ECAC Wayne breaker from the the ECAC is going to be on it but I don't have a list of names in front of me or in my head on that. But you know, listening to the conversation it might make good sense here to pivot a little bit and maybe if Laura is willing to be on that committee. And the Roy is willing to be on CPA saying maybe that's a good way to go. And the responsibility of the bylaw committee is going to be to draft the bylaws or to make recommendations to draft the bylaws. No, it is going to be to work with Stephanie Ciccarello and Christine breaststroke our planning director to to basically carry out the public process to get us to a bylaw and incorporate the findings of the solar setting study. And that solar setting study we're going to hire a consultant to work with the group work with staff to basically look at the entire town and say, where are the best locations for solar to happen. Okay. I think Aaron can can forward to you if it hasn't if it's not in your packet the charge of that committee. I'm looking at the email from Paul Backelman. I'm asking for a nominee and it says the working group will develop and present a draft on capitals zoning bylaw to the town council on or before May 31 2023. The working group will be supported by the sustainability Courtney Stephanie, Stephanie and the planning director Christine for her designate, or her designate the members of the working group will be asked to dedicate significant time to this work perhaps meeting as often as twice per month with the research and reading in between meetings. I think the advantage, you know, that you suggested earlier Laura is that you do work in the field. And, you know, I mean, you know, you're going to know the field and the subject matter. Yeah, most. Okay, let's do it. And I think I'll do that. Laura, there's a required bookend so you need to have the moratorium lifted in a year so it's only a year at the maximum so I guess that's good. So I would recommend that we make a motion for both of these items and it could be one motion. So, basically we're moving that we nominate Laura as a member of the solar bylaw working group and we're nominating the Roy, as the representative from the concom to see back CPA CPA CPA committee. We have a motion from Larry looking for a second. Is that pleasure. Yeah, voice vote Larry. Hi, Larry. Hi, pleasure. Hi. Good job. Hi, Andre. Hi, Laura. And I'm an eye. Thank you, Laura and the Roy. Yeah, thank you very much. I'm really glad to know that you'll be participating in that Laura. Okay, so I have 742. I think our one hearing for the night was on 735 on the agenda so we can open that hearing. So that actually that hearing is a continuum so I don't have to actually open the RDA but we can get started. I want to say first that I think there's going to be a lot of interest in this hearing, which we always appreciate and we're glad we're right now we have nine attendees in the meeting. We're glad you guys are here if you're here for this hearing. It's a sticky situation because ever source is being required by the natural heritage program on the natural heritage and endangered species program of the state of Massachusetts to do habitat restoration is part of habitat restoration for and a threatened plant species and one of their projects. And the proposal is to control some invasive buckthorn species with glyphosate glyphosate, excuse me, I'll get that glyphosate, which is a herbicide. It's used often but also very controversial. We have to figure out it's tricky because ever source is being required to do this by the state but it's jurisdictional for us because it's application of an herbicide in a wetland and our job is to protect that that resource in the town. So possible outcomes here this is an RDA, a negative determination would mean that they don't have to move forward, you know that we approve the work and they don't have to move forward with any further permitting from this point forward, positive determination would mean that we're saying no you cannot move forward with this work that you're being required to do by the state. And that would probably result in an appeals process to DEP. So, they're both difficult roads for everything involved. I will say that the restoration plan that ever sources submitted, as approved by the natural heritage program is one of the most detailed and kind of well confined and well defined plans that I've seen come across the conservation commission kind of desk, real desk in a long time. So it's very detailed, very specific and according to natural heritage very necessary in order to control that buckthorn. So I'm just giving all this background to say that we understand that this is a very thorny issue. We want to be able to include as many voices as possible, but we're going to have to limit this hearing to about 20 minutes. But that usually means is that we do kind of, we ask the representative the applicant to give us an update on the project, we get an update from Aaron on what's happened since our last hearing. And then we accept public comment for about two minutes as long as it's relevant to our jurisdiction, which is the protection of the well and water resources. So that's my, those are kind of the rules of engagement here. And yeah, with that, I should bring in is it Simon. Aaron. Yes. Simon, I'm going to promote you to a panelist. And we're actually losing attendees. We now only have seven attendees, but so maybe we'll see. So I see Simon's here. There we go. Can you hear me? We can hear you. Excellent. Good evening, Simon Hilt with ever source energy here. Jen gave a pretty thorough description of the project, but just, just as a little bit further summary. As part of our transmission line replacement project that's running through the town of Amherst, we're passing through an area of priority habitat as mapped by natural heritage, containing some rare plants. One of the things that natural heritage has asked us to do because we, some of the timber mats that we're using for access are have been placed on some of the plants out there. So in order to mitigate those impacts there, they've asked us to control some of the invasive species that's growing out there, namely the buckthorn. It's growing in some patches now that it's extremely dense and it's starting to shade out or has the potential to shade out the stateless of rare plant. So they're working with natural heritage. They've directed us to use herbicide to control the species out there over a three year cycle. So, as we mentioned on the last call, the majority of the larger plants which get as tall as around 10 or 12 feet or so shrubs in wetlands particularly will be controlled using a cut and dab method or cut and spray method which is basically the stems are cut. And then a backpack sprayer at low volume spray carefully applies herbicide directly to the cut stem. Rare plants and non rare plants alike are shielded using a physical barrier during the spraying. We will restrict spraying so that we're not spraying within 10 feet of standing or flowing water. We will also not be spraying on days where there's high winds forecast or precipitation forecast. Aaron and I had a call with natural heritage representatives yesterday actually, and they provided some kind of backup as far as their feelings is why the herbicide application is necessary and why the methods that we've proposed are necessary, namely more than just the cut and dab foliar potentially basal spring will be necessary. They provided some some information by email earlier today. And part of the reason as I mentioned before with that some of the other methods are necessary aside from cutting dab. So when we have smaller diameter stems of the invasive shrubs out there. Essentially, the diameter of the stem can be so small that it doesn't effectively take up the chemical that's being used glyphosate in this case, that it would actually effectively kill the plant using the hormone additive active hormone that it does use and potentially could just cause the plant to actually sprout out even more. So we again we're not doing this for fun we're not doing it willy-nilly and spraying herbicide all over the place we're doing this to enhance the habitat of a state listed rare plant. And will it will be a very, very delicate and painstaking process that pretty much sums it up. And I can I have the figures if you'd like me to share my screen and again show that the areas where we're proposing treatment. So let's see if I'm thanks Simon that was a great update. Thank you. If you just stand by and whether we need to look at those, those figures, I feel like I have it. A pretty good picture in my mind, but if other commissioners want to look at that when we come to this discussion we can certainly pull it up. Do you want to give us any update commissioners you should know in the hearings folder in the folder for this hearing. There's a lot of information about this including letters from the natural heritage program folks summarizing kind of their response after our last hearing, we really asked Aaron to go on a fact binding mission about the trade offs here. So their take on why they're requiring this herbicide use in the resource area is very clearly summarized there. And then we also have several letters with more additional facts from residents of gamers so I encourage you to take a look at those. If you haven't already. Aaron do you want to give us any further updates. I would just echo the comments that Simon said with the exception that I know one of the discussion items that we had at the last hearing was whether in year one we could just just do the cut and dab method and see about the effectiveness of that before moving to year two. They were very concerned about that stating that they did not think that that was going to be an effective method and that the concern is really at this point about losing the endangered threatened species that is in the right of way that is being choked out invasive. And the reason that it is so detailed is to try to save the species that is growing in the right of way so they they didn't support that and for the same reasons that Simon outlined that there wasn't enough uptake of the chemical within the plant to actually knock it back. And so as far as we had also discussed an alternative chemical to glycosate glycos, oh my gosh, I've said it 100 times. They said that there are alternatives, but that those alternatives are a lot more harmful to human beings than that particular chemical. They said it's the it's the least damaging to human beings that particular one. And so that's why that particular chemical is recommended and for this purpose. So the call was not a very long call they were very direct and to the point. And then they did provide the back, the follow up correspondence. Thanks Aaron yeah and so just to highlight I mean we, I really have been turning my gears on this trying to think of, of some sort of adaptive compromise but that's difficult with this if with the goal of removing that buckthorn. So, you know, I think this could be the headline of any syllabus of either an ecology class or environmental policy class like it's difficult here because the regulations can't take into account the interconnectivity of the resource and the environment that we're trying to protect. So it's a, it's a sticky one. I guess commissioners do you have any specific clarifying questions for Simon or Aaron before we move to public comment. So it's only, it's only three years of treatment. Yep. Yeah, for three years they walk away. It's performance based so after each year we're going to be submitting reports to natural heritage to let them know how the treatments have, whether they've been successful or not so I mean we will need to assess, you know, year by year but that's that's hopefully what it'll be limited to. Okay. Yeah Michelle. I did some reading and I'm not necessarily more clear on where I stand on this but, and I also asked some conservation practitioners that I work with about the use of glyphosate which we do use for invasive species management endangered plant protection. And one thing that came up was the formulation of the glyphosate application and depending on the formulation. The glyphosate application can be safer or not safer for wetlands and more toxic or less toxic for wetlands species such as amphibians so I saw in the proposal or the RDA application that this was following state guidelines but maybe Simon just for clarification you could let us know if this is like roundup or rodeo I believe rodeo is the one that's safer for wetland applications. From what I understand rodeo is actually being taken off the market and essentially what what I believe commercial applicators do is they don't use a product that's off the shelf such as rodeo roundup I think they, they get straight up glyphosate and then they do that with other agents one is a surfactant which I think basically is something that you know allows the allows the material to better adhere to to the plants and basically something probably inert as far as water or something like that to just basically make it you know something that can be applied in liquid form. So, I don't have the exact level that it will be applied at but again just just stating that the goal here is to improve habitat and improve environmental conditions and is being directed by natural heritage again we are on the hook for protecting the replants that are out there and certainly don't want to harm those or or any other bystander plants. So the surfactants that can actually be more harmful than the glyphosate itself so I would just have to assume that natural heritage has reviewed the formulation that you're using for. Well, we could make it a condition that I wouldn't know what to ask for necessarily but I assume that these are standards used for sensitive resource areas and spring. So maybe a condition. Laura I see you a condition. If we were to issue a negative RDA would be review the formulation, including the specifically the surfactant to make sure it is the on the spectrum, it is the one that is the safest to use in wetlands. I saw a lot of research about kind of the impacts of soil moisture on the effectiveness of this and it was difficult to discern like. Exactly. Do you have like a specific product, because we could just stay. Yeah, well so many surfactants out there so yeah so I don't have the expertise to know that that's why I was suggesting rodeo but apparently that's off the shelf so. That was what what I was told so I mean I would refer to whatever is can like approved by natural heritage for use in wetlands me they even use glyphosate for aquatic weeds but it's a certain formulation of it that's safer than upland or dry land populations for aquatic birdwards and birdwards so I wouldn't be able to review it myself and you know chemical composition of it but I'm sure there's some guidelines. I don't know it wasn't in the application it wasn't mentioned by natural heritage but it does seem to be an important component of whether or not it's safe or less safe for use in aquatic areas. That's great Michelle yeah I mean I think a condition that natural heritage review that formulation, and that we're informed is a good condition, right I feel like you had a comment or some input a couple of people back. So those types of things are very hard to condition. I think the closest you could get would be to say something along the lines of we require the applicant to do it in the safest way possible given the conditions at the time. For instance, even if you had natural heritage review it and come up with a proposed situation and very well might not be the situation when the spring goes up. Obviously been a licensed best of science for and I know I have changed formulations on same properties, given different conditions. And I will say that is why I'm so nervous about this because I'm not entirely sure there's a great way to make the base chemical use safe. I'm comfortable, you know, once we speak more with SWCA who's going to be doing the work I'm not sure if they have the formula in mind right now or would be based on site conditions but a condition requiring us to come back to the commission and share with you what is proposed is completely reasonable and and again we are here for our goal is to protect not only the plants but also wetlands and and the population of Amherst so that's absolutely fine. I don't have you know the expertise on this commission to review that so how do we I mean can we still have natural heritage must be using this and approving these, you know, around the clock so I mean can we Aaron can we just have them review the formulation and sign off on it and just make sure that we're all on the same page with what is actually going to be used on the ground. Yeah, I mean what I would suggest is they have a ever source has a license applicator she was actually on the call with NHS P earlier. When we spoke and that we have her provide the formulation to natural heritage and that natural heritage response saying they're approving that formulation and then at that point, you know, present that information back to the commission that that process was followed. What do we do remember we had to do this with tan brook on by that Garcia's place for the paving and they treated they treated the buck, not the buck from the Japanese not Japanese knowledge. Yep. So what that process was pretty straightforward. That was a fuller spray. Yep, but in a wet like straight up in a wetland. Yeah, we didn't have any issues of that so the applicator provided exactly we're just we were just talking about right. So, right, I mean, and then we just approved the cutting plans with herbicide use in buffers areas for that farm. That was pretty straightforward so we knew the applicator there. Yeah, there was also on you drive south. There was an invasive plan. Right. Yeah, there's several projects. It's like what I'm trying to get as like they're all but they're all similar to there's only so many ways you can approach these situations and it is the chemical use so which chemical are using in that in this situation. Yeah, I'm trying to get I'm trying to figure out like what's the difference here than all those other ones. The difference here is that a butters were notified, and those are butters are taking issue with it and you want to demonstrate to those of butters that we are do diligence, taking every precaution possible to protect the wetlands. And I but I do think to your point, Fletcher got that context helps here, you know, in terms of a detailed, well confined, well thought out plan with the addition of this condition that that Michelle has suggested. I think this is one of the better setups for this kind of herbicide application that we have seen in town in a long time. Leroy does this. So I'm, I heard you say that this is very difficult to condition and having kind of done application work before and changing different formulations and different parts of the property. Do you think that this can help us saw address that problem and my, my follow up question would be, if approval with natural heritage wouldn't kind of do it. Is there any other state authority that would help. It sounds to me that it would help us given unprecedented. It gives us some standing. Yeah. Okay, I just wanted to make sure. You know, yeah. All right. Thanks, Michelle that is super helpful. Thank you for looking into that. All right, I want to, if it's okay with you guys, I, we've had a member of the public with her hand raised for quite some time now so I'm going to move into public comment and then we can come back to any discussion and move towards decision here after that. So I'm good. Again, just a reminder that we'd ask people to limit their comments to approximately two minutes and to keep your questions and comments to issues jurisdictional to this commission which is protection of the well and and water resources. So with that, and if you raise your hand I can bring you in allow you to talk kind of in the order that you raise your hands so I see Sarah, you have your hand up I'm going to allow you to talk. You could just thank you. Yeah, everybody hear me hi. So I just I've heard you all speak about how you feel pressure from the state and there's. This is sort of, you feel like you're caught stuck between a hard place. I just want to urge you to realize, you know, recognize that that Amherst wetlands bylaw is stronger than the state wetlands regulations. Okay, the town of Amherst cares very deeply about our wetlands, and it's the conservation commissions obligation to enforce that bylaw and quoting from the bylaw. The applicant. So in this case ever source it's their job to show by a preponderance of the evidence that the work proposed will not have an unacceptable significant or cumulative effect upon the resource area values protected by this bylaw that is your job. And I will also point out to you that the EPA itself, although it has not banned glyphosate, the EPA in 2021, their biological evaluation found that glyphosate will negatively affect most of the plants and animals that are protected by the Endangered Species Act. I do not see how that's reconcilable. I do not see how you can uphold the bylaw, and also allow glyphosate, when the federal government has found that it's so damaging to the resource that you're charged with protecting. Thank you. Okay. Thank you Sarah. Did anyone else have any questions or comments. Jeff sharp. I believe we've met you in the past hearing Jeff. Yeah, thank you. Yeah I was in the last hearing and back and I sent you a letter that you should have all been exposed to, which, which noted a bunch of research, and, and, you know, the topic and how Carson a genetic glyphosate is how dangerous it is, how it's, it's, it's being outlawed and in many communities in Massachusetts and across the country. You know, really, is it necessary. Is it really necessary have all avenues been looked at to, to protect this endangered plant that that, you know that we could move forward with and I just, I question that have you have you, you know, has ever source looked into every other possible avenue my neighbor, Chris riddle, who some of you may know, took care of some invasive species right, right where we are which is right next to the area that's in question, and, and he was told that he could use glyphosate and doing this. And the name of the person that did the work for him was Joan Dealey, if any of you are familiar with Joan Dealey. So, right next to where you're talking about. He was told that that was not allowed on his property to do some mitigation of invasive species. You know, that's it for my comments I hope that you look at the research that was submitted to you and take this very seriously. Thanks, Jeff. We are definitely taking this very seriously and I appreciate your input as well as the letter. The one thing I do want to I'm just going to read. So, again to clarify ever source is being required to do this as a condition of their permit with this, the state natural heritage endangered species program. So this is being reviewed as well by expertise within the state as to how to best protect this rare plant. So a lot of the technical guidance of this is coming from the state on how to best handle the situation so I want to just put this out there because it's public anyway. This is a follow up email from the natural heritage program employees. It says, I want to be clear that glossy buckthorn and European buckthorn have long to consider a problem at all three of these sites, it goes through the history, the history of kind of documenting the growth and kind of overtaking of the sites by buckthorn. It says it damages the climbing fern by shading the fern and not allowing sunlight on the ground through its dense dense growth climbing fern will thrive with filtered light not dense shade. Glossy and European buckthorn are problem and basic species because there are no native new England species that can eat it bees will visit it flowers but many of those will be European honey bees. Also not native bees mostly its presence is killing native species by shading out native plants that can be eaten by our native wildlife as well as shading this rare plant. There's no person be eating glass glassy buckthorn but no animals will be eating it either. And so then it goes into kind of the addressing our questions with both which both are specific questions one use of spot treatments potentially only doing cut and dab the first year no foliar and to use of a different more effective herbicide, which both Simon and Aaron have covered earlier in their sharing. So, I just wanted to make it clear that you know the buckthorn as is means that this rare plant will not be able to grow in this area. And that's why the focus on kind of removal of this of this dense invasive. So thank you Jeff for the research and your, your contributions here we we very appreciate much appreciate it. So, it looks like Simon, did you also have a response. Yeah I just wanted to clarify one thing, as far as the regulation this local regulations trumping state regulations. I just want to mention that this is under a different set of regulations this is Massachusetts endangered species act rather than one protection act. I want to respond to the commenter who asked if we had explored all options and yeah we really have I mean we're doing this at the direction of the state of rare plant restoration biologists. One, one possible method that was discussed at the last meeting was mechanical removal IE pulling out plants. And I mean for one thing. These thickets of shrubs are so dense that you would essentially be pulling up the entire right away. And then the other pieces, even pulling up small groups of plants is going to result in so much soil disturbance that you know what moves into those areas is generally invasive species so we're trying to do this in a way that is targeted is careful so that we're really just doing what we need to do and can then leave the site and and hope that it you know is in a much better place after that. And really just, yeah, that's that's basically what I've said thanks. Thanks Simon. Okay. So, last call, any members of the public who joined us tonight if you have any comments or questions relevant to this this hearing please raise your hand we're happy to hear, but you have to say and we appreciate you being here. Let's see in anyone. Okay. So, commissioners good Michelle did you have a comment. I just wanted to like point out another sticky piece of this is that this ultimately is restoration of a wetland area and glossy buckthorn I think I mean I know some species in that genius or allopathic meaning that they out, they have like basically a poison that will kill other animals around them and they monopolize areas so it's an invasive species that's already compromising a native wetland habitat and this does get at restoration of native wetlands. So that ultimately is the goal. I'm just bringing that up because it's another consideration in this decision. Thank you. Commissioners any other comments or questions on this. So where are we. Does anyone have any need any more information in order to make this decision again this is an RDA so a negative determination would mean they proceed with their work. Positive determination would mean that they don't, which likely results in a field process with the state. So that's kind of what we have on our plate, we can condition a negative determination, we've discussed potential condition there. So again, does anyone need any more information in order to have the information they need to make to vote on this. Okay. Um, so I think we should make a motion and vote. I think that's the best way to move forward. Aaron can Fletcher and Laura vote. Have you guys reviewed the last meeting proceedings. Yes. Yeah, I have to. Great. So if they viewed the proceedings from the last meeting then they can. Um, I, one recommendation might be to close the public hearing first so that the commission can deliberate internally to discuss this. Just an option to consider. Yeah, I mean, I think if we had additional information that we needed to deliberate or questions we needed to ask, then we could close the public hearing but I think that we should, I think I'm gathering that we're ready to vote. Okay. I think that's one. It's looking okay. Okay. All right. So if you would pull up the slide, Aaron. Yep. So I also added in, while you guys were discussing, I added in a condition that the monitoring reports should be shared with the commission regarding the success of the treatment. That's great. Assuming. Yeah, with the first condition there review with commission and advance of application. So that condition, our approval has to be met in order for this to work to proceed. So if we find that this surfactant for, I do not think this is going to happen. But if it's something where we're not happy with the surfactant and we're, we're do not approve that then it holds up to work. Is that correct. I think if natural heritage said no this comp, this formulation is not acceptable, then they would have to come up with another formulation. Okay. Okay. Is that are these conditions okay with everyone else. Any other conditions suggestions. Okay. We're looking for emotion. I'll make the motion. I'll make the motion to issue a negative determination of applicability checking box two and positive determination of applicability to the bylaw checking box five on the RDA forever source. Do you want to just read the conditions. Oh, sorry. Yeah, of course, and the conditions. We got to be working with the natural heritage orientation species program review the formulation of herbicide treatment specifically the surfactant for the commission advance the application. Number two, applicator uses the safest methods available. Number three, monitoring reports must be shared with the commission regardless. Regarding success of the treatment, which is the top concern. Second. So that's Fletcher with emotion Andre with a second, do a voice vote Andre. Hi. Fletcher. Hi. Roy. Michelle. Hi. Larry. Laura. And I'm also an eye. All right, Simon. Thank you for being here. We look forward to hearing how it goes. Sorry. Thank you very much and I'll be back in touch with you guys with the, with the, the, what we're going to be applying out there. Thank you very much. Great. Thank you. Okay. So that is the end of the wait, let me double check that Aaron was there more. I think we handled all of the other business items. Okay. Okay. So this is the end of our regular public meeting for tonight and now we're going to open an executive session to discuss the zero Tuckerman Broad. enforcement order. The reason that this is going into executive session is so that we can make sure we don't have a detrimental effect on the town's litigating position. Until the litigating about this enforcement order should it happen is over. Once it's over, this does then become public just to make that clear. With that, I think I need a motion to close the Amherst Conservation Commission meeting on this date. Then we need to vote on that. So emotion to adjourn, and then I will make a motion to open the executive session. Okay, I will make a motion to adjourn the Amherst Conservation Committee meeting on April 27, 819 PM. I had a second from Leroy motion by Laura second from Leroy. Voice vote Laura. Larry. Hi. Leroy. Hi. Fletcher. Hi. Michelle. Hi. Andre. Hi. Okay. So that meeting is adjourned. And now. So I need someone to make a motion to enter the executive session. I move that we enter into executive session on April 27 at 820 PM. Can you read the full slide Leroy. I'm sorry, I didn't even see it up here. I'm going to go back to our speaker. Thank you. Thank you. I move that we entered executive session pursuant MGLC 38 section 21, a three to discuss strategy with respect to litigation, if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect in a litigating position of the public body. And the chair so declare that having a discussion and open session would have a detrimental effect. On the town's litigating position, which you have declared. Okay. We have LaRoy with the motion. Andre in the second voice vote. Fletcher. Oh boy. Oh, Dave has his hand up. Dave was this a procedural. I know it's hands down. Continue voting LaRoy. Michelle. Hi. Andre. Hi. Larry. Hi. Laura. And I'm an eye. So Aaron. Yeah. So I'm going to stop the recording for this meeting.