 Yeah, I'm here if they've been, did you want me to go ahead and get started? Give me one minute because I have to do two things before we start. One is we have to say that we are operating under the Linux Foundation, so we have to conform to anti-trust policy of the Linux Foundation. The second is that there is a code of conduct which basically says that we have to be able to disagree without being disagreeable in short. So after those two things are done, now I think Marvin will present for a short while, maybe five minutes, and then we can go ahead and start the regular presentation with Graham who's also on the call. Okay, thank you, Vipin. Thank you to everyone for joining us and also another extra thanks for Vipin and all of your efforts. We do really appreciate the openness and just the community that Vipin and the Hyperledger and the Capital Markets Group community presents, so thank you to everyone for that. This is really only going to take a couple minutes, but I wanted to give everyone an update on the mortgage subgroup since the mortgage subgroup has joined the Capital Market SIG. We've done a couple of things. First off, we've completed the mortgage subgroup Wiki that was released on October 1st, so we encourage everyone to go ahead and take a look at that, take a look at our charter, and if you're interested then please join us. The intent of the mortgage subgroup is to gather an open community very similar and underneath the umbrella to Capital Markets to try and identify some common problems and common solutions using Hyperledger specifically for the mortgage subgroup. So we invite everyone that's in the mortgage industry or has an interest in it to join us and to help us come up with some of those solutions. The group was started by myself and Angel Alban is the president of the Ventus and I think he may be joining us later, but since we released the Wiki on October 1st, we've also been working on a couple things. We've been reaching out to the different SIGs and groups within the Hyperledger community to let them know about us, to invite them to join, and also to see if there are any common use cases or sample use cases that we can use as a starting point for the mortgage subgroup. In addition to that, we've been working with the Hyperledger fabric team to come up with a couple proof of concepts. We've been able to utilize some of the test cases that the Hyperledger community provides and have gotten a couple use cases off the POCs off the ground and with the fabric and Hyperledger community we've been able to get those going. So now that we have a couple POCs off the ground we're starting to tweak them to make them more applicable to the mortgage subgroup and we're also reaching out to our business partners within the mortgage community to come up with some mortgage specific use cases. For example, just over the past couple days Angel and I attended the Mortgage Bankers Association Conference for 2021 in San Diego, California. That's probably the biggest industry group meeting for mortgage. We told them about what the Hyperledger community is doing. We told them about the applicability of blockchain and specifically Hyperledger to the mortgage community and there was a lot of excitement around it. So I think we're really starting to pick up our momentum and again if you guys are interested please join our subgroup. We're now just getting our calendar together for the rest of the year and we'll have a mortgage specific meeting. We still don't know the cadence of that yet but hopefully we'll get that over within the next couple weeks. We're starting together a panel of vendors and speakers that are interested in speaking specifically on blockchain within the mortgage community or the interest around it. So a lot of exciting things. That's it. If there are any questions please reach out to me and again thank you to everyone. Thanks Marvin. Anybody wants to join the mortgage subgroup? Of course you're welcome to. A couple of things. One is the next speaker. Graham has worked in mortgages. If you look at his bio carefully you will see that he was instrumental in a mortgage related application but right now he's going to talk about the exciting new new application of digital assets on polymesh which is a project of polymath. And welcome Graham. You've read his bio. Everybody knows what well some of us know what polymesh and polymath can do. So please Graham welcome and thanks for showing up. Thanks Bipin. I think I can probably just jump in. So I have a few slides prepared probably maybe 10 maybe 20 minutes and then we can kind of go from there and I think Bipin wanted to open the floor for questions afterwards so we can do that as well. And so I think Bipin circulated my bio but just a brief background on me. I'm the head of tokenization at polymath where we focus on all things security tokens. A bit more about me. I wrote the first ever ABC book about Bitcoin. It's called B is for Bitcoin. So if anyone has any two or three year olds about to learn their alphabet I highly recommend going and checking that out. And then I'm also on the advisory board of Red Swan which is a company that's tokenized 2.5 billion dollars of commercial real estate. So that's the largest tokenization by a single entity to date in the whole space. And so I'll go ahead and share my screen and I think we can just jump right into the presentation that I have prepared. So everyone should be able to see my screen and I'll jump into it. So today we're talking about polymesh which I believe is the blockchain for capital markets and of course I realize now I'm coming into a hyper ledger group which talks about all things hyper ledger and I'm saying hey check out this other blockchain that is not Ethereum based. But you know hopefully people can learn something today and I'm by no means bashing Ethereum or hyper ledger in the presentation but I think it's important to talk about you know why we made the design decisions that we chose when we were looking to build infrastructure for capital markets. And so just a brief background on polymath. So our vision everyone has equal access to economic growth our mission right. So how do we do that? We automate and simplify regulated markets through blockchain and then more specifically we're contributing to a dependable compliance focused blockchain. We're connecting market participants and we're growing the security token market. And if anybody is unfamiliar I'm sure 90 plus percent of people on the call are familiar but just in case there's anybody who's not. What is the security token? It's a digital representation of a financial asset. So equity, debt, real estate, commodities, structured products, investment fund shares, etc etc. And then I would kind of group security tokens into two different categories. So one would be asset tokenization. So there's an asset that exists in the world. It's off chain and you represent that on chain. So some a lot of people are doing this now. So you take an apple share for example you tokenize the apple share. I have an apple share that exists on a blockchain. The more interesting thing in my opinion and what we focus on a bit more at polymath is asset origination. So taking a financial asset that originates directly on the blockchain and exists only on the blockchain. So it's natively digital. And so we hear a lot of people in the tech space talk about the progression of technology over time. And so one way to think about it is you have a physical letter that you mail to someone and that's how you communicate. And then you take that physical letter and instead you fax it to someone. So you're digitizing the real world thing which is a little bit better of course and a little bit faster. But then you have an email which is natively digital. And so that's what we see with technology over time is there are things in the real world that then get digitized and then you have natively digital representations. And so that's what we focus a lot on polymath is making it really easy for the issuers of financial products and their partners. So broker dealers, banks, custodians, transfer agents, KYC providers, advisors, etc. etc. for them to actually create natively digital assets and then having compliance functionality so they can trade on a secondary market in a compliant manner. And so I'd ask a question. Which blockchain would you choose to build tokenization software connected to an ecosystem of regulated service providers? I think probably everyone on this meeting would say Hyperledger or maybe some version of public or private Ethereum. And that's what we started doing. So back in 2017 polymath was formed and we started building technology on Ethereum. It was really the only place to do so. That's where all of the developers were. That's where all the interest was. That's where all the investment was. And it was really the only place where you could build on top of the existing functionality. So what we did on polymath is we said how can we have actual financial securities on a blockchain? And one of the first things you see when you look at a blockchain, especially back in 2017, is there's no concept of compliance. So you have ERC20 tokens that are starting to take off these utility token things. And people are starting to try to use them for securities. We saw a few brave companies like Blockchain Capital and Science. And they said, okay, yeah, we can use these tokens for securities. And then you realize, okay, well, actually you can't because you can't control who has access to them. Anyone can trade an ERC20 token from anyone to anyone, anywhere, any time of day, no sense of compliance, no ability to freeze transactions, no ability to freeze wallets, no abilities for an issuer to force transfer if perhaps someone loses their private key. Or there's a court order for a divorce or God forbid a shareholder dies and the issuer needs to force transfer assets to their beneficiaries. There's no way to do that with ERC20. So what we did is we said, okay, we need to build a new standard for security tokens. And so we started building ERC1400. So ERC1400 is a backwards compatible standard with ERC20. So if your wallet can hold the ERC20 tokens, your wallet can hold the ERC1400 tokens. And how we started building ERC1400 is we got every single person in a room that we could think of, including Fabian Bogelsteller, who's the author of ERC20. And then we also got KYC providers, transfer agents, lawyers that were formerly at the SEC, broker dealers, custodians, everyone we could think of in the capital market ecosystem. And we said, what is a standard for security tokens need to look like? And we came up with the ERC1400. So that was something that we spearheaded back in 2018. And it's now the most widely used standard for security tokens. So Consensus has their own implementation, which I believe they called the DOREO protocol. And I think that's what Codify is using to build on. So their own implementation of ERC1400. The government of Norway has experimented with ERC1400. And then we've talked about this recently. There is a top 10 worldwide bank in terms of assets under management that is likely going to talk about the ERC1400 tokens. They've created sort of any day now, probably in a month, maybe two months. And we started building on Ethereum. Most widely used standard in the world is what we were able to spearhead with ERC1400. Tons of people are implementing it. But there's a problem that we kept running into. And especially when we talked to very large financial institutions. And there were five main things that we kept hearing over and over again. Those were governance, identity, confidentiality, compliance, and settlement. And so I'll dig into these a little bit deeper. So for governance, specifically relating to forks. So let's say there's an Ethereum, Ethereum classic fork, and you have a security token on the blockchain before the fork. Well, now you have two security tokens after the fork. Which one has the real claim to the underlying assets? The split them in half? Does the company decide we're going to go with whichever chain has the most hash power? Does the company decide, oh, well, we've heard this influencer in the Ethereum space say that this chain is going to win out eventually, actually let's just freeze trading for six months and wait until there's a clear winner. You know, it's a really big problem when you start talking about issuing 100 million dollar assets on blockchains. And you say, oh, well, there's this problem where at some point you're not going to know which one's the real asset. You know, it's just untenable for any large financial institution. So on Polymesh, which is the blockchain that we've built for capital markets, Polymesh, it's impossible for forks to take place, and we'll probably touch on a bit of the architecture a little bit later in the presentation. So identity was another huge one. So how can you ensure that only the people who you want to interact with are the people you're interacting with? And so again, on Ethereum and other public blockchains, when you look at identity, there's no concept, right? So 0x123 ABC. And what we built with ERC 1400 was the concept of whitelisting, where the issuer can say, okay, I only want 0x123 ABC and 0x453827 to be able to hold tokens. And that's because they've KYCed them. And I know that's Alice and Bob kind of off chain. Well, on Polymesh, we have a concept where every single actor to get on the chain must pass a KYC process. And then on top of that, all the node operators are regulated financial entities. So that was another thing we kept hearing when we were talking to especially large banks is, well, what if I make a transaction and pay $10 of gas? And that gas goes to a miner in Iran, or a miner in North Korea. There's no way that those firms are allowed to interact with those folks and just a really big question mark for them. So having node operators as regulated financial entities was a really big one for them when dealing with regulated assets. Then confidentiality. So this is one that everyone's working on right now. And so we have a white paper that we've put out that's called Mercat. If anybody wants to go searching for it, M-E-R-C-A-T. And we also have a patent pending on how we deal with confidentiality with Mercat. So how can you have a $100 million position in your portfolio on chain that's publicly viewable generally, but then you can actually obfuscate that and have it be private? So you can move $20 million of your $100 million position without alerting the market and letting people know. So when you talk to JPMorgan, when you talk to Goldman Sachs and you say anyone can see your positions and anyone can see when you're exiting your positions, they just won't use that blockchain for regulated assets. It just does not work for them. Compliance, obviously a huge one. That's really why Polymath was invented. How can you have compliance on blockchains specifically for regulated assets? And so as we started building on Ethereum, every single compliance functionality because it's not baked into the base layer of the chain and the base layer of the chain has no concept of assets other than Ethereum itself, you end up deploying all of these smart contracts for the compliance criteria. And so when you have a scenario where you want to make sure that only party A can transact with party B and they can only transact a certain amount of tokens over a certain period of time, we started hitting the gas limits of Ethereum sort of in year one of development. And so you can only imagine what's going to happen in year two, year three. And so what people are doing right now and I'm sure people on the call are familiar with the concept of whitelisting where you say, I want this address to be able to transact with my token. Updating your whitelist right now on Ethereum, if you don't want to wait a week, it is around $50 to $100. And Ethereum was marketed as this way to do those transactions for pennies or maybe a dollar. And so it's not working. And of course, there are layer two solutions coming. And we're very excited about those and we're keeping it close eye on all things layer two and how to bring down those costs and competition. Well, ultimately, the blockchain not having any sense of tokens at the base layer is a really big architectural challenge when you're dealing with regulated assets. And so that's a huge thing for us. Polymath as we build a polymath is employing more of this specialized use case specific logic into the chain itself so that you can get the computation costs down and you can have a much more elegant scalable solution specifically for regulated assets. And then finally, settlement is a huge one. So on blockchains like Ethereum, Hyperlegger, et cetera, et cetera, there is no concept of what most financial institutions would think of as real settlements. And so what I mean by that is if I find out your Ethereum wallet, I can send you tokens at any time. You can't say no. And so that doesn't really work for a lot of financial institutions when what they're used to in the world of settlement is having this concept where seller must affirm settlement instructions and buyer must affirm settlement instructions. And so that's how all assets exist, except for the native PolyX token on polymath. If I want to send you something, you must affirm that you want to receive that asset as well. And so you can, of course, build those things off-chain with certain solutions and that's how exchanges work. But on-chain, that's how settlement works on polymath. And so we found a lot of interest with both financial institutions and also with even other blockchains. So the potential for trading tokens on separate blockchains and then having them actually settle every hour or every day or every week back to polymath to be sort of the golden source of truth for settlement. And so that's probably the most exciting area, at least in my opinion, where PolyMesh really shines as our settlement engine that we've built, specifically talking to these regulated entities. And so this is sort of the progression that we had and I touched on this a bit. So we went live in 2018 with our market solution. So the PolyMath Token Studio where anybody could create managed security tokens. We noticed there was a lack of standardization. So we proposed the RC-1400. We found pretty good product market fit in 2019 and we started growing the ecosystem. So getting as many KYC providers interested in security tokens and using our technology as we could, transfer agents, broker dealers, custodians, et cetera. But we noticed public Ethereum was not the best solution for capital markets, at least in our eyes. And so we transitioned from this general purpose infrastructure like Ethereum to this very purpose-built use case specific infrastructure like PolyMesh. So we started building PolyMesh in 2019. So what we focused on all 2020 and we're very, very close to going live now in 2021. So you could call it days away, weeks away potentially for our PolyMesh mainnet to go live. And if anybody is familiar with what we're talking about, we're talking about internet speeds on the slide. So you can keep using phone lines if you want for internet speeds and you can try to juice out a little bit more KBs per second. But ultimately what you need to do is you need to build purpose infrastructure. So you can keep using the existing infrastructure that exists or you can try to build something that's specific to your use case. That functions a lot better. And so now we have 300 megabytes per second. We have gigabit speeds per second for internet speeds. Whereas if we kept building on phone lines, maybe we could get to 28 KBs and then 33 KBs. Maybe we could or we can start building fiber optic cable instead of phone lines and start using those. And so that's what we've seen in the blockchain space as well. We start to see NFT companies building their own blockchain. Dapper Labs has built Flow because all they need to do is NFTs. They don't need to do supply chain logistics. They don't need to engage in, they don't need to build farming infrastructure for tokens. They don't need to build decentralized exchanges like Uniswap. All Dapper Labs needs to do is make the best blockchain for NFTs. So they built their own blockchain called Flow. Remains to be seen if that is the best way to go about things. But that's what we think in terms of regulated assets is there needs to be a purpose-built infrastructure specifically for these regulated assets for capital markets. And decisions that we made early on, do we want to fork Ethereum? Do we want to make this a completely public blockchain? Do we want to make it private? Is it permissioned? What kind of finality do we have? You need to think of, can you get dev talent? What kind of licenses do you want to do as a completely open source? How is the ecosystem? And so all these decisions that we've been making over the last few years, especially with the architecture, landed us on polymesh. And now we're very, very close to our mainnet launch. As I mentioned, days, maybe weeks away. If there's anybody listening to this from the polymath community, I know they're watching my words very, very closely for how long away mainnet is because they've been waiting for a while. But so why mainnet? Right? Like why do we build a blockchain? And we talk about that a lot. But in terms of our success, we spearheaded ERC 1400. As I mentioned, the most wildly standard in the world, there had been 225 tokens created. Now more than that, actually, since I created this a couple of weeks ago. And we've made the first ever self-serve product on Ethereum to create managed security tokens. But ultimately, it was all about creating a blockchain specifically for regulated assets. And so in terms of our mainnet launch, and a little bit more information about how polymesh is structured, polymesh is launched by the Polymesh Association, which is a not-for-profit, member-based association where polymath is just one member of many. And so the Polymesh Association provides resources to support the advancement and adoption of a diverse polymesh community. And the Polymesh Association will control 250 million PolyX. And so the PolyX is the native token of the Polymesh blockchain. And so we're actually really excited. The Polymesh Association was formed this week. So I believe it was made public at some point late last night. And we actually tweeted that out. So the Polymesh Association was live, so mainnet is coming any day now. As I mentioned, one of the interesting things about Polymesh is all the node operators are regulated financial entities. So a few of you may know some of these firms. So some of those to start are Intoro, Oasis Pro Markets, DigiVault, the Gibraltar Stock Exchange, Blockson, and Atonic custody. So there's 14 that we have to start. We're looking to grow that number to 20, 25, 50, 100 as time goes on. Obviously more node operators is better. And so we've been talking to a number of financial institutions over the last few years. And we have potentially a few very exciting ones coming soon that we're really looking forward to announcing. But I can't say anything on this presentation. And so what we had to do before mainnet launch as well is we wanted to launch an incentivized testnet. We need actual people testing a blockchain before you go live with it. Worst thing you could do would be to launch on mainnet and then realize that you have some catastrophic bugs or that it can't handle the load of 1,000 people or that the buttons aren't working on some UIs. And we found a ton of those that we were very happy to fix. And so we had 4,300 unique users on board to the chain. And so that's a big shout out to Ethel Brian, one of our amazing bugs, watchers and community members. So there were 7,400 key staking polyx on the testnet, which we thought was a really big success. So people were very excited about staking. People love proof of stake blockchains. They love the ability to contribute to the security of the network without having to create a football field sized mining operation. And then also we had the successful completion of two independent code audits. So those have both come back both with green lights. So mainnet coming very, very soon. A bit about polyx. So I mentioned polyx is the native protocol token of the PolyMesh blockchain. If you have poly, you can upgrade that from Ethereum today. So poly is an ERC20 token on Ethereum. And you can actually bridge that one to one between Ethereum and PolyMesh for poly to polyx. And so there is a bridge between Ethereum. Another interesting thing if anybody's interested, PolyMesh is built using Substrate. So Substrate is the framework that Polkadot uses, Kusama, Edge, a number of these other blockchains. So interoperability is a potential exciting thing in the future. Whereas I mentioned some blockchains we're talking to are excited about having tokens trading on that blockchain, but then actually settlement occurring on a hourly, daily, weekly basis on PolyMesh. So connections between Hyperledger, connections between Ethereum, connections between Polkadot and these other Substrate-based chains is something that could be very exciting in the future. The other really interesting thing about PolyX is it's a FINMA regulated utility token. So FINMA is, you can think of them as the SEC in Switzerland. So FINMA buckets assets into three categories. One is asset, aka security. The other one is payment token, aka currency. And the third one is utility token. So PolyX has actually received the utility token designation from them, which is obviously very, very exciting, especially in terms of regulatory compliance and making sure we check all the boxes and that we're doing things that a regulator is on board with. So maintenance coming soon. I mentioned a few times, you know, days, weeks away, very, very soon. And if anyone is a developer on the call, I encourage you to check out our SDK. So a lot of what we do at PolyMesh is making sure that financial intermediaries can easily plug into this new world of blockchains for regulated assets. So if you want to create an asset, if you want to act as a transfer agent for an asset, if you want to provide KYC services for securities, if you want to be a custodian, you shouldn't have to build your own blockchain. We've done that. We've done that. We've done all the research. We've done all the heavy lifting. We've hired all of the tens of devs to make sure that we can build a blockchain that we think works for capital markets. And so all you have to do is plug into our SDK. So you don't necessarily have to know how the blockchain works. You just need to know how your application works and you can plug directly into our SDK. And you don't necessarily have to get so deep into the weeds of how blockchains function in order to provide services on blockchain. So that's one thing that we're very, very excited about. If anybody wants to get in touch with me, if you have questions, you don't feel like asking right after this. There's my email, also my Twitter that I'm on all day and just how to follow along with all things. Polymath is our Reddit, Twitter, our Medium, and our Telegram group as well. So I think we'll open the floor for questions. I think we've been, if we have time, I believe we do. And thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Yeah, please, raise your hand or ask a question directly. Thank you. Hi, Graham. This is Kirti here. Thank you for the presentation. Great overview. Could you tell us a little more about the kind of smart contracts that PolyMesh supports today? So today, nothing. So substrate actually doesn't have smart contract functionality yet. And so I actually think that's one of the interesting things is you can create tokens today on PolyMesh. You can engage and you can implement compliance criteria. You can create attestations for certain addresses and say Alice is from the United States and she's under a buy lockup with regard to the specific token for one year. So there is no smart contract yet. And still you can do all of this functionality with regulated assets that works for financial institutions. So of course, there will be functionality for smart contracts at some point, but substrate is not there yet. It's pretty much waiting on the Web3 Foundation and Gavin Wood and that team until they can build that out. And partly why we've done that as well as we get to piggyback off their infrastructure. So we've worked pretty closely with the Web3 Foundation throughout our entire architecture of PolyMesh. And we really like their team. We really like what they've done. But yeah, ultimately waiting on Web3 to implement smart contract functionality and substrate, which I think they projected for 2022, but I'm not 100% sure on that someone could possibly correct me. Brilliant. Thanks. So there are a couple of questions. One is of course, whether you would share your slides with us because a lot of people are asking about your contact. And obviously, they can get that from our wiki page. Any other questions, guys? There was one more question, obviously all about how far away is the release? That's always the question. Yeah. So days are maybe weeks away. I see Brendan's question there is that the first block for public access, let's call that the first block. And so likely what's going to happen is we will launch the first block and then there will be some internal testing and then we would go live with the UIs. So you wouldn't want to push all the UIs live the same day that Genesis Block launches. What if there is a bug that you didn't really realize on testnet and you have to reset the chain? So of course, we don't foresee that happening, but it's best practice to go live with Genesis Block, have some internal testing for a couple of days and then have UIs go live. And so really what we were waiting on primarily was the formation of the PolyMesh Association. So that's now done. There's final Ts to be crossed, Is to be dotted, documents to be signed, and then going live as soon as possible. No one wants PolyMesh to go live as badly as me and the rest of the team. So we're making sure that we do that as quickly as possible. Any more, guys? Someone has raised their hand. Let me see who that is. Yeah, I see in the chat, what do you see happening on PolyMath for investment funds? Chris, could you elaborate on that a bit? Yeah, he's got his hand up. Thanks, Graham. Thanks for the presentation. I'm a multi-asset alternative investment manager and we've been looking at alternative ways to distribute shares and get assets into more hands. So PolyMath is one of those things we've been keeping an eye on. So in that regard, we're an investment fund essentially looking for a broader base and is PolyMath one of those functions? Or is it an infrastructure that we could use to distribute a compliant fund beyond that of a traditional alternative asset manager, hedge fund, VC, that sort of thing, if that adds any color? Yeah, no, that makes no more sense. Thank you. Yeah, so that is largely what we see PolyMath as. So anyone can onboard to PolyMath and provide you're not on an OFAC blacklist, even though I mentioned identity is a key component. And so what you could do is you could have some potential investors, but then there could also be some potential investors that you don't know that live on PolyMath. And I will be very, very careful by saying we are not a broker dealer. So we do not find investors for you that is on you or your broker dealer partners or your broker dealer network that you're working with or your advisors, et cetera, et cetera. But that is the idea, right? It is maybe you have a network that you're aware of, but then perhaps there are some more that exist on this PolyMath blockchain thing. And they might be interested more in token based investments than they would be with a piece of paper. So yeah, we do not help you find investors, but potentially that could be one thing. That could be one way that you use to get wider distribution. Yeah, no, thank you. Yeah, we're not looking for you guys to help in terms of new investors or anything. We'd be actively pushing people on chain, I guess, to utilize the network and infrastructure to add alternative assets into their wallets, into their portfolios. Because right now it's essentially a paper based system. And we're looking to modernize that with something like PolyMath and the PolyMesh system. Cool. Yeah, I mean, I would love if you could send me an email and we could talk further about this and perhaps get some more folks from our team on the call. Yeah, I think that sounds very exciting. And this is largely who we speak to mostly as folks like yourselves. Great, I'll certainly be able to, I'll certainly reach out, Graham, for sure. Cool, thanks, I appreciate it. Guru, looks like you're unmuted. Thank you. Graham, Gurvinder, thank you so much. PolyMath has done great work. I'm glad to see the work by PolyMesh as well. Two-part question related. One is if you look at the broad space of assets and securities, where are you seeing kind of most maturity, like some of the examples you were talking about, bonds, equities, real estate and so on, where are you seeing the most kind of adoption and maturity? And relatedly, are you familiar with the work that society in general has done on the issuance of bonds and any comments you have on the infrastructure that they are using? Yeah, so in terms of maturity, I think real estate and debt, at least for us, that's been the largest one. So real estate, I mentioned Red Swan, tokenizing $2.5 billion. There's been a few other REITs. There's Realty, which is tokenizing hoses kind of all across America now, I think. And so we've seen real estate as a really big kind of early leader. What we're seeing now, especially as we talk to more banks and more large financial institutions, is structured products in debt specifically. So especially when you have something like a syndicated loan, for example, and yeah, Red Swan. So the website's redswan.io. And so what we've seen recently is a lot of syndicated loan interest. So you have five parties. There's a lot of paper shuffling back and forth. There's companies that are now ensuring that all of that is digitized and documented. And now then you just take the paper, syndicated loan that you would have and you have a fully digitized version, where now you can perhaps have it be a little bit more liquid between the five parties that have created it and that are holding it. So anywhere where you have large origination costs and long times to get to market and to close deals, that's where we're seeing the biggest interest. And so initially, we thought it would be startups raising a million dollars and they want to tokenize their equity. But they already have pretty well-worn paths to do that that aren't that cumbersome. And ultimately, VCs, they just want to hold all the equity themselves and then they're going to maybe want to do one round pre-IPO and then they're going to want to go on an asset. So security tokens are helping a lot more in the private issuance market, where there's private actors, less liquidity, more confusion in terms of who owns what, large conversion criteria where if X happens, now you own 20% instead of 15%. Those types of things being able to automate all that criteria on chain is really exciting for them. So bringing origination costs down and bringing time down is really big for these banks that we're talking about. In terms of SOCGEN, it's amazing to see SOCGEN doing that make or doubt proposal was really, really cool to see. They're definitely at the forefront in terms of all things security tokens. And so I believe they're using Ethereum for something today. And then that is what I can comment in terms of SOCGEN. There's potential for SOCGEN to do a ton of different things in the future. And we definitely see them as the leaders. We've seen a few other banks coming out, but SOCGEN, BNP, lots of banks in Europe that are really at the forefront of this. And we think it's because the FCA and then BAPN as well. In the French regulator of the AMF, I believe, we see them as very forward thinking. And so one of the huge difference between Europe and America that we've noticed at least in recent times is in Europe, you can have a natively digital instrument be recognized and you can use the blockchain as the golden source of truth. Whereas in the States, you can't really do that yet, at least not with a public instrument. You're still required to have the real share exist offline on a piece of paper. Whereas in Europe, they're much more forward thinking. So yeah, we see really big things coming from SOCGEN and a few of these other European banks. So you saw the question on are there any financial entities lined up to be onboarded after Polymesh? Yeah, and the ability to stake. So in terms of financial entities, so we mentioned the 14 that are node operators. Then we also have a number of other firms, I believe over 50 that we've been working with for quite some time now with the RC 1400. And so what I would say about that is the entities don't really care about the technology generally. What they care about is making money in their business model. And so when you say, hey, can you onboard to this new technology? That sounds like a cost for them and not really very exciting. So really entities are onboarding onto new technology where there's a business case to be made. And so we've noticed that with custodians, the custodians will integrate as soon as there is a business who wants them to custody their tokens. They won't integrate before that because there's not really any case for them, unless they're a bank with a massive innovation department who wants to conduct some research. So yes, there are financial entities lined up. There's the 14 node operators that are running nodes. And then there's the 15 ecosystem providers that 50, 50 ecosystem providers we've been working with over the years who are going to be providing services for tokens that are soon to launch. And that's really where we see institutions come when there's a business case to be made, when there's an asset, when they can provide services, when they can earn their fees that they're generally typical that they typically make. And so then also the ability to stake available right after mainnet launch. Yeah, so staking for a general user will commence as soon as UIs turn on. So I mentioned mainnet launch, internal testing for a couple of days, public launch for all the user interfaces shortly after that. It's called maybe seven, 14 days, something like that. It is what we've heard from our tech team. And that's where staking would be made available. Any other questions? Otherwise, I'll start asking questions. I think two questions. One is, as you have mentioned before, it was the divergence of value for gas for Ethereum, which obviously costs everyone to rethink using Ethereum for everything. You know, used to be pennies. Now it's tens of dollars. And God knows what it's going to be later. So are you concerned about that same effect with the PolyX? Yeah. So first I'll say, gas is one thing that we noticed as being a reason to build different infrastructure. But ultimately, it was building everything as secondary smart contracts. I think that was the biggest one. And then identity was also the biggest one. So it was the compliance, it was the identity, and it was the settlement as well. So ensuring that both buyer and receiver must always affirm settlement instructions, sorry, buyer and seller affirming settlement instructions. And so I think those were the big three ones. Fees were sort of secondary. When you're talking to a small issuer, if he's issuing a $100,000 note, then the fees are very important, of course. But when you're talking to a massive financial institution and you tell them, you know, you got to pay 20 bucks each time you do this, it's not a huge disincentive for them. But then in terms of architecture for PolyMesh being built on substrate, there's no concept of paying more in fees to get ahead of the line. So that's just a fundamental difference between substrate and Ethereum-based chains where, you know, I have a certain amount of computation that I need to execute. I pay a specified amount, we can call it gas and PolyX. And there's no concept of me being able to pay more to get ahead of other transactions. So the transactions are ordered simply in the way that they come in. So that is a fundamental difference. So, you know, maybe that architecture doesn't work. You know, I like the Web3 Foundation. I think Gavin Wood has built some pretty good architecture with Ethereum and then also with Polkadot and with all things substrate. So that's how I would answer that. Yeah, I mean, I was focused purely on the value of PolyX. I mean, I know that there are other reasons for getting on to a purpose-built chain like PolyMesh. So unless you have some kind of control, I mean, even for transaction, forget about issuance, you know, what if I want to sell my holding to another person who's also been KYC'd or identified properly, do I pay a transaction fee? Or is it happened without, I mean, is that borne by the financial institution? Got it. So if you're transacting on chain, you do need to pay a PolyX fee. So, you know, same concept as Ethereum. When I pay, I need to pay a little bit of ease to make a transaction. When I make a transaction on PolyMesh, I pay a little bit of PolyX to make that transaction. What we're seeing, though, is we're seeing institutions want to make use of this piece of infrastructure that we call a relayer, where I can still hold keys that prove that I am, you know, 0x123, but someone else can pay a transaction fee for that transaction. And so we're seeing this as a really big potential use case for PolyMesh, but then also something that we can potentially use on other blockchains as well is this relayer service where I want to prove in a cryptographic way that I have the private key associated with 0x123 ABC. But I don't want to go buy this PolyX thing, or I don't want to go buy this ETH thing. And so the financial institution that I bank at, or that I custody at, or that I designated to be my gas payer, I just pay them $5 a month, $10 a month, or on the institutional side, I pay them $10,000 a month, and they pay all my gas fees for me. I still click sign, so I can sign the transaction proving that I want to do this and proving that in a cryptographic way, but someone else can pay those gas fees on my behalf. So that's what we're seeing a lot now is in the traditional world, I don't necessarily have to buy a different asset other than the one I want to transact with in order to make a transaction. When I'm in my bank account and I want to send a US dollar somewhere, I don't need to go buy Canadian dollars to pay the transaction fees, for example, that's me being a Canadian showing. But that's what we're seeing banks want to do on blockchains now is when I want to trade Apple stock, I shouldn't have to own Google stock and pay the transaction fees in Google stock. And that's what a lot of people think of it as, you know, of course, us being in the native blockchain world, we understand, no, you need the native token to pay the gas fees. But that's not how most users want to interact with blockchains. And so we see this three layer service as being a really big onboarding mechanism that helps more and more regular everyday users become comfortable with blockchains is some institution somewhere paying the on-chain gas fees for them, while they just pay their regular subscription fees per month via credit card or via wire transfer or whatever. I mean, coming back to the original question, it still holds that if the financial institution is going to have to pay more per transaction, then they will pass on the cost to me. And you know, this whole business with Robin Hood and order flow and everything else is related to this issue, which is the sort of siren song of having a free account in Robin Hood is actually being paid for with order flow. And they are going to tighten down on that. Now, if PolyX started starts diverging in cost, you know, because of demand or whatever. And the only way to issue PolyX is by staking. And by being part of the consensus mechanism, then it's possible that the gas prices may go up. So in a crypto economic sense, you know, unless if it is just scarcity built in like, let's say Bitcoin, it may not help make this more amenable to retail transactions. That's that's all I'm saying. No, I agree. And I think that's why, you know, we're seeing all these later to starting to pop up is people are smart people are dealing with this problem in different ways. And I think eventually we'll find a solution. You know, smart developers always find a solution, you know, event. Originally, all you could do is send text on the internet. Then you could only send a photo and then you could only send a video and then you could only send a high death video and then you could only do VR. You know, so eventually the scaling solutions come about. I don't we don't know exactly what they look like today. But, you know, I have faith that at some point we'll be able to do all these things on blockchains for appropriate cost that everybody's happy with. Well, having worked with developers, I'm being a developer myself for more than 30 years, I don't have the same optimism. Maybe that's because, you know, that shows that I'm an old fart, but but it also could mean that, you know, certain things are built into our human psyche, certain ways of doing things. Anyway, there are a couple of more questions on the one is from Guru, which asks about whether it is built on substrate, which I think you said yes. Yep, that's a yes. Second is your guys already registered with SCC, but I don't think so. I think it was more FINMA, which was it's a Swiss SCC. That's me providing the answers to it right now because I'm doing a great job so far. SCC has, you know, have they, okay, so here's money asking about interoperability, which is, of course, one of my concerns as well, and you said something about bridges with PolyX, but, you know, we have to have more than PolyX bridges, we have to have a way to for the assets themselves to be interoperated. Yeah, so maybe I can provide a bit more color on that. So, you know, interoperability is not a day one focus for PolyMesh. We're very excited about interoperability and we obviously know that that's the future and building on substrate opens the door for easier interoperability with any substrate base chain. So whether we decide, you know, in the future PolyMesh becomes a para-thread or a para-chain and how interoperability works, you know, we haven't thought incredibly deeply about that today, to be honest. You know, we're building a blockchain for capital markets where people can issue financial securities and trade those financial securities and do that in a compliant manner. That's our day one focus. But of course, you know, we're keeping a really, really close eye on, okay, when's the right time to focus more on interoperability. You know, that may come in 2022. That would probably be my best guess. But yeah, keeping close eye on it, not a day one focus, but excited about the opportunities that will happen in the future. Well, I run the interoperability working group in DCGI, which is a digital currency global initiative in ITU. And we sort of have been looking at all this. Of course, we have been looking at substrate and para-chains and, you know, their standard for interoperability. But we believe that interoperability is a, let's say, primary capability. And the faster you look at it, the better it's going to be. Interoperability by design is one of the, you know, just like security by design or privacy by design, which you already seem to have handled. So I urge you to bump it up in your priority list. I will, I will let the dev team know. Definitely. Okay. So what, what, what next? Is there, are there any other questions for Grant? Otherwise, I'll continue my, my doesn't look like this more. We have five more minutes left. So I'll ask one or two more questions. Oh, there is Chris O'Connor raising his hand. So I guess I should yield to him. Thank you. It's me again, Graham. Public securities have been brought up a few times. But what is the depth of this? Is, are you looking to replace traditional capital markets with some sort of polymesh, polymath infrastructure? Or is it simply like a para market for public securities that already exists, you know, stock market sort of stuff? Yeah, I think either is appropriate, right? So I had that slide initially where you can take an Apple stock, you can tokenize it, and that Apple stock already exists. And now it exists in two places. So someone can trade it that potentially they didn't have access to before, but then you can also generate natively digital security tokens. And so I think both make sense. My personal opinion is security tokens start eating the private market first. So more and more private assets get issued on blockchains rather than not on blockchains. So we have called five billion of those today. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. That's a drop in the bucket in terms of these securities world. But that's where things start being eaten. Because as I mentioned, you know, typical tech startup, you know, VC is going to want to do things, they've always done it, they're going to have the capital managed on Carta. And then they're going to go public on the NASDAQ. That is so tried and true and people make so much money that way that it's hard to see a different way of doing things. And the different way has to be 100x better. And personally, I don't think security tokens are 100x better for those public securities right now, just because the infrastructure is not there. But where security tokens are 100x better is in the private market. So syndicated loans, real estate, debt offering, private equity, you know, those things are 100x better in security tokens because you can get the cost down so much and you can get the time down so much for when people are negotiating any deals. And when you can automate any types of conversion process or redemption process or for stock options, for example, you can redeem those really easily and automate every single functionality on security tokens. That's where security tokens are going to be first. Private markets and then eventually NASDAQ will be built on a blockchain at some point in time. I don't know if that's five years from now, 10 years from now, but I believe that will happen at some point in time. Okay, thanks for adding some further color. Cool. Anything else? Okay, here goes another question, which is a staking. Staking is felt to be the solution, you know, in terms of proof of work, but staking has its own problems, which is the devolution of voting power to large holders, which, you know, has been proven in a democratic or decentralized system to be extremely harmful. What are the steps you guys are taking? Are you doing something similar to what, for example, Vitalik has said, quadratic voting, any kind of tamping down of the power of centralized actors who hold large quantities of tokens? Yeah, so the blockchain decentralization maximalists are not going to like my answer here, but we've almost done the opposite. So because we're building a blockchain for capital markets, the financial institutions don't really care if the PolyMesh Association has a lot of power, or if a few of us in the association have a lot of power, they don't mind that at all. What we've done today is there's no concept of quadratic voting, but we've definitely looked into that, and that might be something that we implement. You know, the Web3 Foundation might implement that on Polkadot. We have an idea at this point, and perhaps we just integrate that easily with sort of a few lines of code once that becomes available. Nothing to side on that front, but how functions work today, if let's say someone wants to make a parameter change or a code change to the base layer of PolyMesh, is a user, a holder of PolyX creates a bond with tokens. So let's call it 10,000 PolyX. They say, I want this change to be implemented. Other users can vote yes or no by showcasing their support via their PolyX amounts. And then ultimately that decision then goes to the governing council of PolyMesh. And so the governing council right now is a few small, small actors that are in the PolyMesh Association. And so, you know, that is by no means the decentralization of power that is almost kind of the increase in power. And it's because this is a blockchain with a very specific use case. We want to build something for the largest financial institutions in the world to be comfortable with blockchain and saying, yeah, these nameless faceless individuals that are perhaps in jurisdictions that you're not able to interact with are deciding the future of this blockchain. They don't like that. That's something that most of them don't like. And that's why we've taken the approach where today I have PolyX, I bond it, I want a change to be made, other users of the chain can say yes or no. And then if it says, if everyone says yes, then it goes, not if everyone says yes, but if there's majority, you know, when it seems like this is something that makes a lot of sense, it goes to the PolyMesh governing council, governing council says, you know, do we actually want to do this? Yes or no. And so ultimately, you know, that is not the decentralization of power, but we haven't noticed that as a huge concern from the institutions that we've been talking to. Of course, it's a concern in the general blockchain world, and we're going to decentralize that as much as possible as time goes on. But for day one, you know, the PolyMesh governing council sort of does have the authoritative power to direct the chain in the manner that they want, because, you know, it's going to be a new chain. It needs to potentially make life altering decisions and surgical decisions as quickly as possible. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense for specialists to make some of the decisions. But ultimately, you know, anyway, we are out of time, but we can go ahead for a couple of more minutes if you have the time. Otherwise, we can call it a day. But, you know, we can continue this conversation outside. You know, in the US, for example, I mean, forget about decentralization. Governance models often work well when there's broad consensus. And in the US, there used to be, you know, voting based on property held and so on and so forth. But it was maybe 150 years ago, but that fell by the wayside to be a registered voter. You had to have certain amount of property. I mean, same thing holds even in capital markets to be in an ICO to purchase or to trade certain things. You need to have a network of, you know, whatever, 500,000 million, depending, you know, there are various tiers. And that is cost regulatory capture and problems in that. So that's the only caveat. We have to have some way of governing. I mean, so obviously, you guys have chosen one way and it'll have problems and we'll have to look at the real world use cases to see what kind of destruction or problems it's going to cause before we decide to change that. But definitely have that in your mind. Yeah, it's a huge concern that we have the PolyMesh Association, you know, how should this thing run? How should people be able to direct the future of the chain? How should upgrades get made? How can we ensure that a bank is comfortable using this? How can we ensure that the security token users are comfortable using this? How can we ensure that stakers feel confident in placing their, you know, hard earned capital here to provide security to the network to try to earn rewards and PolyX? So yeah, it's something we think about all the time. What we've come up with today is what we've come up with for V1. That doesn't mean that that's how it will be in V2 or V3 or V4 or V5. And so the constant evolution is I think what we've seen with every blockchain this time goes on, perhaps except for Bitcoin, where things stay the same. Yeah, yeah, something we think about a lot. And then, yeah, Bippin, I do actually have to have to head out. But yeah, in closing comments, if anybody wants to reach out to me, please do. That's Graham at PolyMath.network is my email and then more grams on Twitter. And if anybody wants to ping me, ask more questions. If anybody wants to chat about anything, happy to do that anytime. And Bippin, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Graham, for showing up and doing this very interesting presentation on the future of capital markets. And that's it for now. And I'm going to close the call. Thanks to everyone for attending and asking interesting questions. Bye-bye. Thanks, everybody. Thanks.