 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise Vs and generous donations from viewers like you. Good evening. This is a special Town Council meeting and in fact is a public forum. We are meeting based on Governor Baker's March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, which allows us to hold virtual Town Council meetings. Given that we have a quorum of the Council present, I am calling the special meeting of the Town Council to order at 631. I will call upon each Councilor by name. They should let me know that they can hear us and we can hear them. And this will indicate us that we can go ahead with the meeting. This meeting includes video, audio, and is available live on Amherst media. It is also being recorded. There is no chat room. If you have technical issues, please let me or Athena know. And we will make note of that in the record. So with that, I am going to go ahead with the roll call. And Athena, could you just take the slide down for the moment. Thank you. Shalini Balmilne. Here. Alyssa Brewer. Present. Pat DeAngelis. Present. Darcy Dumont. Here. Lynn Greysma is present. Mandy Johanicki. Present. Dorothy Pam. Present. Evan Ross. Present. George Ryan. Present. Kathy Shane. Here. Steve Schreiber. Here. Andy Steinberg. Present. And Sarah Schwartz. Present. I want to note that there are a couple of other people who are here who are part of the finance committee. They are the resident non-voting members. And then there may be other people who have joined us early for later on in the meeting. This forum is specifically on the Jones library. It is on two financial orders. And it particularly is one order relating to the community preservation act. Where that committee has specifically voted to grant the library a million dollars based on historic preservation. The second order is a borrowing order to fund the expansion of Jones library. It's a bond authorization. And then there may be other people who have joined us. With that I'm going to just go ahead and ask people who are interested to start raising their hands. And let me just mention one or two other things. In preparation for this meeting tonight. And later on in the meet in the regular council meeting. The town council has held four capital listening sessions in December of 2018. To receive various reports and to discuss their findings. Those were held on February 11 2019 July 13 2020 and February 22 2021. We held two public forums on the repair and or renovation expansion options of the Jones library. Those were on March 5 and 10 2021. And the finance committee has held two meetings. To discuss at length. The questions and answers. And that 60 page document is in your folder tonight. As of this morning at 1037. We had 268 emails to the town council. We have received quite a number since then. But the count stays just about the same. About 72% support. The library expansion and renovation. And about 27 opposing. Eight comments have been inclusive. And we are trying to do this to identify unique individuals. So with that, I'm going to be calling on people who have raised their hands to make public comment. And please make make note that it's 635. Eugene. Guffried. Please enter the room. State your name. Where you live. And you're. Hi. I'm Eugene. So Fred. I live in South Amherst on middle street. I didn't hear the last thing that you wanted me to say. It's exactly what I wanted you to set. Three minutes. I may have to shorten that later, but we'll see. I just want to go on record. I am in full support, borrowing for the renovation and expansion for the Jones. The library really needs to be rebuilt for the next 30 to 50 years. The in person programming that needs to be done now is a lot more diverse with a lot more complex technical dependencies. You know, information flows, whether it's borrowing books, accessing stuff. You know, you know, online, accessing electronic resources is just very different now that it's been for, you know, literally the past half century. So we need to build with some forward thinking. And I think it's a really good opportunity now because interest rates are low. You have a really nice confluence of state and private money that could really help finance this. We can't know everything, you know, that will happen. There's there's always risk when you do anything, but I'm really confident that the planning and the management that have gone into this. I've been pretty amazed as I've watched the meeting from the transcript. So that's what I wanted to say. Full full support for the expansion and the borrowing that's needed for it. I also want to note that in addition to the council representative Mindy Dom has joined us in the audience this evening. Todd Holland, please enter the room state your name and where you live. Hello, my name is Todd Holland. I also live in South Amherst on one Elthill Road. I served on the library sustainability committee, along with Sharon and Alex from the library, and with Lee Sarah and Chris, who I have worked with on other projects. I am a professional engineer, but I'm not working as an engineer on this project. I have been very satisfied and impressed with the architects with their responses and the changes to the design that they made. Based on our questions comments and observations on that allowed the design to evolve based on our experience in the industry and with green buildings. I worked with Sarah on the RW Kern Center at Hampshire College. We got that building fully certified as a living building, which to my knowledge is the most stringent green building standard in the world. It was only the 17th in the nation. And my experience there is that it's really not a prescriptive approach that works. You can talk our values and EU eyes. It really comes down to how the building is used and operating and operated in practice. That is the real challenge. And also, having been in that building for several years, that the promise of the building isn't fully realized until you start using it and you see what a gem it is and see what it means to the people who work there and go there every day. It was really satisfying to see the Kern Center take shape and become a real living building. And this design library as a parent of three kids who came up through the Amherst schools. I would love to see this building done. And as somebody who has worked at the local colleges specifically and energy and sustainability for approximately 20 years. Most of the arguing and Heming Heming and high can result in in action and in action is guaranteed to be the only wrong move to make. So I would love to see this thing move forward. And it looks like a really good step to me. Thank you for your comments Todd Chris riddle. Please enter the room state your name and where you live. Can you hear me. Yes, we can Chris. Hi. I'm Chris Riddle, a retired architect. I live on 252 Strong Street and Amherst. And I, what I was prepared is about to say was almost identical to what Todd just said we have very similar backgrounds. And we, and we, I would change the part about the Kern Center to read Hitchcock Center. And I would change the thing about having kids to having grandkids. I've, I've, I've been working. I was happy to work on the sustainability committee for this project that really based my consciousness about where the, the administration and the board's collective heads are at as far as sustainability and natural and using low carbon products in the building. This is a, I'm proud of this project. I think we'll all be proud of it. I think it's, it's time to do to every 50 years or so it's time to re up and re energize our infrastructure. The best time in terms of, of the pandemic. It's not the best time. It's never the best time. But this is, this is the time when the, when the state money is there and I would just hate to say no to it. Again, as we did once before on the school project. I'm, I'm a, I think this is now's the time to do this project. We should just, we should take the opportunity to raise the, our investment in our beloved library. I'm a fan of this project. I hope we all hope we make it happen. Thank you. Judith Swain, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Judith Swain, I live at 565 Bay Road in Amherst and can you hear me. Yes, we can. I lived in Amherst and then and Pellum since 1973 and in that time I've spent a lot of time at the Jones, and like everybody I'm sure on this call, we love the Jones. And I'm a wholehearted supporter of this project for a variety of reasons. The space that is now the children's room is just abysmal and when, before the previous renovation, it was a wonderful place to be with small children and what we have now is just awful. And I'm, I've looked at these plans and I think that the opportunities for children and youth in this project are fabulous. I'm also a, I've been a tutor in the ELL program and as other people have said not tonight but in other programs, the space for tutoring people in second language is not enough for the number of people that are using this building for that purpose. And I just feel like the previous speaker that this is the time to do this project and I'm thrilled to hear to architects and engineer types who say that this is going to be a sustainable building because that is, obviously what we need to do right now. So I really hope that this project goes forward. I feel like the Jones library is the center of our community. It will continue to bring people to our community and it will be the jewel of the downtown so I hope you support this project. Thank you. Thanks for joining us tonight. The next person is a call in user. Please identify yourself and where you live. Yes, my name is Vincent O'Connor. I live at 175 Summer Street in Amherst. I've lived here since 1974. I was the initial sponsor of the CPA article before town meeting in the early part of the century, and the sponsor of the two increases in the CPA percentage that raised it to 3%. And as such, and a member of the committee for six years from I think 2005 to 2011, and as such I do not feel that the amount of money being committed to this building in the name of historic preservation is really appropriate, given the nature of the proposed demolition and of various historic features. With respect to the building itself, as somebody who was used and is concerned about the branch libraries, I am very concerned that there will be not insufficient funds, both in the endowment and in future appropriations to staff both this expanded building and the branch libraries. And finally, somebody who has brought 8 to 10 children of color to the children's room, one I don't think it meets. I found it quite welcoming and relaxing for the kids. They found it welcoming and relaxing. I do not support a building concept that empowers or directs or however you want to put it. They promote primarily white staff to become visual controllers of as much space as they can visually control and do their other duties. I think this is having untrained people do this as part of the direction of the of this library construction is in this current era, a very foolish enterprise. And I do not share the, the negative comments about the existing children's room by any of the folks who have made them. So I do not support the project. I do not support the use of CPA funds for the project. And I would urge city counselors to not vote for the project. Thank you. Thanks for joining us this evening. Rebecca major. Can you hear me. Yes, we can. Sorry, it doesn't say. So thank you so much. I'm here with my husband Craig kennel we live at 151 amity street in Amherst just a little bit down from the library. We were just here to add our voices to those who are supporting the project. We haven't been able to attend any of the previous sessions and we did not write a letter we probably should have, but we didn't. And so we wanted to come here and say that we support the project. For many of the reasons that have been stated, but I also want to say that the fact that the library really does not currently have an operational teen space is something that's long been a concern for me as someone I have been a high school librarian before and I care a lot about the teens in our community. And I think this project will go a long way toward helping that and it looks great. I have no expertise in looking at architectural plans, but it looks lovely and we want to fully support it. Thank you. And welcome to Amherst. Sarah Draper please enter the room state your name and where you live. Hello, just a little mic check you can hear me. Yes. Awesome. Thank you. So I'm Sarah Draper. I actually live in North Hampton. I work at Hampton College. As the aforementioned director of the RW current center are net zero low carbon friendly neighborhood living building. The background is in sustainable design and historic building preservation. And as both Todd and Chris mentioned, I was also a member of the Jones library sustainability committee in helping to shape this sustainability goals for this project. So I just wanted to add my support for the Jones library renovation and expansion project. I think this is a wise investment. You know this project will reduce the town's dependence on fossil fuels, lower the energy costs of the library and better provide for the needs of all the town's residents. That in itself would be enough for me to pass the should we shouldn't we test. I'm personally excited that this project can also provide an example and attempt for what sustainable historic preservation and renovation can look like because that is what we need for the future where you're not going to like new building our way out of the climate crisis we need to figure out how to make the buildings we have better. And I think this is a great example of doing that. I will also just say that I'm really glad that so many people in Amherst and the counselors are thinking critically about building sustainability and what the town should be spending our, you know, energy and carbon budgets on to fulfill the climate goals that we have. I think this energy efficient project is exactly where we should be spending those resources. We know we nothing, the library systems are at the end of their useful life. And at this point in the climate change crisis, there is nothing worse than a missed opportunity, we need to reduce the energy use and our carbon use right now. And this is a project that's going to help move the town of Amherst towards that which is the direction we need. So just fully support. Thanks for listening. Thank you very much Sarah. Lisa Lieberman, please enter the room state your name and where you live. Hello I'm Lisa Lieberman. I'd like to offer the perspective of an author and can compulsive reader. I live in North Amherst and I've lived here for 18 years we've raised our children here. My time using the library I've developed relationships with many librarians and I just like to say I applaud their dedication to readers and to the community. I've spoken to many of them over the years privately, and I've listened to their reasons for supporting this project. And I think what it really comes down to is that this project will enable them to do their jobs and to serve this community better. I happen to be president right now at the New England chapter of sisters in crime which is a mystery writing organization. And in that capacity I've presented programs at the Jones library and throughout New England at various libraries. And when I visit these libraries I see spaces that are welcoming that are open that are light filled that are used by all different constituencies. And then when I come back and I look at our library I feel sad, because here we are a community that is, you know, academically rich. We are intellectuals we are readers, and we don't have libraries that reflect that about ourselves we don't serve all the members of our community. So, you know I'm speaking both as an author and as somebody who cares deeply about all of the members of our community, not just the readers not just the writers not just the academics but children people of color English language learners. And I believe that this is the way that we need to move forward in order to meet the demands and the hopes of the 21st century. Thank you. Thank you for joining us Lisa, Adrian, Theresa, please enter the room state your name and where you live. You need to unmute Adrian. Sorry, Lynn and everyone that raised hand function refuses to lower I'm listening intently. Sorry. No problem. Thank you. It should have a lower hand Lynn. Can you, Athena, can you bring Adrian. I guess you wanted to lower your hand. Yes. Okay. Are there any other public comments. Carol Gray, please enter the Roman state your name. Carol Gray, a 15 Southeast Street in Emerson. I would like to talk about process and the need for getting the pulse on the community. What I'm very concerned about is that this seems to me like a top down process with something as important as spending $20 million. There are being four capital projects that are in the mix, two of which I think have much higher priority with the community, both for River Elementary School and the Wildwood Elementary School need to be rebuilt. You could take the 20 million that you're spending on rebuilding a library, and you could rebuild one of those neighborhood schools now you could bound bound, you could bond out the money, and you could have started building that two years ago. You could have the money and we could, we certainly have the credit rating, and we could have started building one of those elementary schools immediately, and then we could have gotten a grant for the second. I'm very concerned that this small body. And yes, there are people coming in, but there should have been a townwide survey done to figure out how does the community want to spend our money. And you have a fire department, a DPW, two elementary schools, and a library. How would the people prioritize those capital expenditures. And I think part of why there's been no effort to find that out is because you would find that most people would rank the library as one of the lowest priorities. They wouldn't rank it at all. Many people would say they don't want it to be built they don't fit 20 million to tear down a library that many still love and find useful, the way it is to be a good use of money. In terms of, I've read the critiques about how, if we don't do this we're going to have to spend 15.8 million in renovations. I think that's a false number and I'll tell you why. Compiled by people who want to build the new library. When you have people who already have an agenda, which is to spend 20 million to get this grant to do this huge library. Of course the renovations are going to be priced at a very high number. And here's the other reason I think that it's a very high number. I was at Jones Library trustee for three years. I was on the building committee. I was the representative to the joint capital planning committee. I served on the long range planning committee as a, and all of these capacities, there was never any talk about how we need millions to renovate the library. We were on the joint capital planning schedule for our 10 year plan to get various things replaced in a timely way. So, if your agenda is to justify a $20 million expenditure. Is it any surprise that the cost of renovation comes close to that not to me. This was not done by an objective group that was really trying to assess what's, what are the emergency or, or even just current day needs. If you're trying to build a state of the art library. Okay, maybe 15.8 million but would you, would you justify buying a new home by deciding that you want to get your current home and that the price comes close to a new purchase. Anyway, so my point is, there should be a townwide survey and there never was. And so it's to me it's it's a top down process from the library. And this is a top down form of government that is not surveying the people, and you're going to price out of town people who can afford the higher taxes. And you might risk the override for the schools because some people might say wait a second this took 20 million, and they put it towards a library instead of prioritizing the schools that we all think are most critical. Well, to me it's kind of incredible that this has come this far when the town spoke loud and clear that we want to prioritize new elementary schools. Why are we talking about this right now. And I guess it's because there's a grant, but you can't do for capital plan for capital expenditures within a half decade period of time. If you want to be a town just for the wealthy, you can't keep raising taxes, and you, you, you should prioritize the things that the town. Oh, okay, I'll say one last thing, there actually was a random survey done to plan for the master plan. It was 665 Amher citizens were chosen at random. And I'm going to quote from that random survey that was done. It's one sentence. This is directly from the random survey overall these random survey results indicate citizen satisfaction with the town the way it is. That was an objective random survey, you should do an objective random survey before you spend 20 million from the town's funds. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. I want to remind people that you're limited to three minutes. Claudia has money, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Hi there, I'm Claudia plus money. I'm at 47 Emily Lane. And my first comments are as a resident, and a long time resident and based my family here as well. And I just want to firstly thank the Jones library staff and trustees for their enormous efforts in getting us to this historic moment. I want to thank the town council for really taking the process in. I want to find the words for this team, but it's really hardly possible. But this is what I'd like to say to this team this library team. And then I would like to say that who during the pandemic, they kept programs going for moms and littles for seniors, they created some life saving programming. They pivoted at every turn, they offered pickup at each branch, they curated book of the month club, but they picked books out for you based on your preferences. They created homebound delivery. They picked they created outdoor browsing and computer tent outside. They created services for the children. There's a huge online presence with art prompts, take and make art kits. Storytime with librarian design just for the users in mind, teens sharing across the library systems via zoom. They actually even found that risk conversation circles transfer readily to zoom. This is the library team that we've entrusted during the probably the most difficult time. And to me, this is the team that I entrust to this expansion and this renovation. So thank you. And really quickly, with a comment as executive director of the Amherst area chamber. I echo the sentence expressed earlier by the experts who spoke before me Eugene Todd Chris Rebecca Sarah and creating this true living building and creating this true economic and ecosystem driver. We are in the verge of this exciting infrastructure changes in and around the downtown that will build momentum as we all try to rise out of this, this horrific pandemic. I see this as a true opportunity as this chamber as as a, as the chamber, and I look to the town council as the chamber, and how proud you should be to sit on this precipice of making this historic boat. And we say at the chamber, let this building rise, as we all rise from this terrible time, and let's soar. Thank you. Johanna, is that to the room stage your name and where you live. Thank you so much Johanna Newman 137 Stanley Street. I am so excited that we're so close to passing this Amherst can afford all four of our capital projects. We made a huge mistake in 2016 when we turned away a state grant to replace our flawed and failing elementary schools. And I have to say I personally find it a little bit galling to hear vocal opponents of the schools project come onto this meeting and say that schools should be the priority. I cannot afford to turn away state money. All four of these projects are necessary. They all serve diverse constituencies in our town and I urge you to vote yes tonight to update the Jones library and bring it into the 21st century. Thank you. Johanna thank you for your comments. Lee Jennings please enter the room and state your name and where you live. My name is Lee and I live in strong street on strong street, and I sent the counselors an email with my thoughts on the project. I don't want to go through all of that again in the interest of time, but I am calling to support the project. I know a lot about it having served on the sustainability committee. And I know that this building will help us meet our climate goals in the town and also will provide a space for teenagers, which I will have in a few years that do not have a space in the library. Right now. And also feel like we've seen the way forward to achieve these four capital projects and it will be great to have one that the entire town can enjoy, which is the library unlike the schools and the city of WPW and fire station which we absolutely need to do, but they're not places that are accessible to everyone. And I hope that you'll remember that there's lots of people that can't call into all of these meetings and email and they're the ones that may benefit the most from this project, and I urge you to support it. Thank you. Okay, thank you for joining us. Sarah Eisinger. Hi, everybody. My name is Sarah Eisinger. I am at 137 Pine Street in North Amherst. I have a couple of points to make. I'm a member of the CPAC committee. My training is an economic development. Formerly I was in the real estate department at Mass Development, and I've previously been a lead accredited professional. So I look at this project with a lot of interest, and I've been a resident of Amherst for eight years, excuse me. Right, I'm speaking here to enthusiastically support the Jones Library from a number of different angles. Perhaps the most important role that I have those as a mother to a young person in Amherst, a four year old, and we've used the library as an asset and a resource and a vital part of our lives in her young years. And every time we go, we are among the only English speakers. We're often among a varied and diverse group of an immigrant population there. And I know from my work here in Massachusetts and we're broadly that libraries represent really a town center. It's a place for low income people to come to do job searches for homeless people to have respite for people to have free resources, bathrooms, etc. And we just do not have a library that befits our town and befits the kind of town that we want to have and live in. So I trust, so someone mentioned earlier about the process and I wanted to say two things. One is that I really trust the professionals at the town, the town professionals have told us that we can afford the four capital projects. And I think we should trust that process. Further, I think we should trust the process of the board of directors and the staff of the Jones Library, who've ably husband did this project and stewarded the project all along with lots of input, lots of opportunity for public input. So I'm just here to enthusiastically support the the project and hope that the town council wants to support it. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sarah, thank you for joining us. Tom Lardner, please enter the room state your name where you live. Athena, are we able to bring Tom in. Yes, I'm in. That's Angie Lardner. I'll speak for Tom too. I just wanted to say that 175 Bammity Street. We're down the block from the library. We love it. We use it all the time. We've been here 40 years. And while Tom was involved in some earlier changes. Well, this technology, it's time for the library to take advantage of this and I strongly support it. We both do. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks Tom and Jane for joining us. Erica, Zika state your name and where you live. My name is Erica Zika and I live on Holst Road in Amherst. And I too am here to enthusiastically support the renovation in addition to the Jones library. I just also want to acknowledge how hard people have been working on this project for so long and I think it's high time that we move forward. I think that opting out of state funding for the library merely leaves us with the same bill for a far inferior product and I've listened to Mr. Backelman in his various presentations described that you know we have been saving and paying down debts and that we can afford this project and the others so it's not an either or question for our town. The Jones is beloved but unfortunately it's housed in a building that doesn't serve our changing community all that well anymore leaks, heat and water it has inexpecible spaces. It's not equipped for 21st century programming. The children's room is split across four rooms on two floors, our teenagers have no space to gather there aren't enough computers that Woodbury room is too small. English language lessons often take place in the cold vestibule area staff are wedged into two small spaces. You know what's proposed to be demolished is the 1990s edition, not the historic structure and its wings and so we can keep that historic structure, make it accessible to everyone. This is the part that isn't working and build back better in this time with a century in mind and not just 25 years. I think we should keep in mind that true sustainability is defined, yes by environmental health, but also by economic and civic well being. And in light of all that this pandemic has revealed with regards to inequities in our community. I would like to be thinking about community sustainability and more complex terms. A library that is energy efficient, welcoming to residents of all ages, race and ethnic backgrounds and economic means makes perfect sense to me. So I hope that you'll support the library renovation. Thank you for your comments, Erica. Johanna did you have another comment or did you just leave your hand up. I'm going to. Sorry, I, my hand was still up accidentally. Okay, thank you for clarifying that Sarah is your hand up to make another comment or you need to just take it down. Okay. Hello, Kristen Ward just 680 Bay Road. Amherst resident for the last eight years we are the parents of three boys one at the high school, one at the middle school and one at the elementary school. I also work at Wildwood elementary school and faced the devastating news. Four years ago when we refused the state funding to replace our desperate school that our schools that are desperate in desperate need of repair. I'm here to enthusiastically beg you to please support this project. We are losing young families from this town. I think we have a lot of young families who can and are willing to pay high taxes but are extremely frustrated at the infrastructure in our town. Our schools are run down our schools are run down our roads are run down our library which should be a hub for our children. Quite frankly, isn't a very welcoming place. And our family has a long standing tradition of going to libraries when we're on vacation. We used to go every single Friday before we moved here, and since moving here we really were so disheartened at the condition of our library. I'm extremely excited at the net zero prospect of having a state of the art library in our town. So I just thank you all for your service I thank you for your consideration I am hopeful by all hearing everything that the community is saying, and I hope that we can move forward with this project as well as the other capital projects that need to be done in our town. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Lydia Vernon Jones, please enter the room state your name and where you live. Hello, my name is Lydia Vernon Jones I live on Gaylord street and Amherst, and I have spoken to this at a previous forum, but in listening in tonight I'm very dismayed that we're talking about major capital projects. It's been the thing that hasn't been included in the major capital projects is the retrofitting and the renovation of the buildings that we already own. I think this is premature to be voting this money before you have received the report from the energy and climate change committee. You have not looked at the budget that's going to be needed in the next 20 years to meet those goals. And it's going to be bigger than any of these major capital projects. And I think this is premature. I'm sorry if the money has to be grabbed from the state right now but doesn't make sense to me. That's all I have to say. I want to thank you for your comment. Mara loft, please enter the room and state your name and where you live. Have I entered the room. You have. I have okay. I am Mara loft I live at 22 Ward Street in Amherst. I've lived here since 1980. I'm a timid public speaker so excuse me if I stumble. This is a complicated project. I love the Jones library it's only my favorite thing about Amherst. I use it all the time, and the librarians are terrific and all the services are great. I see that the library needs expansion. I don't think it's time it just made at the cost of this I do not like the plans I'm a graphic designer and artists and sorry to the architects but it looks kind of like the front of the building on steroids I don't think it's I don't think it's friendly looking I don't like the bigger ring at the other end of town. I think the process from what I'm hearing is not what it ought to be, including that saying that the users of the library 51,000, including students who have their own libraries. I think that was a manipulation of statistics that makes me uncomfortable. It's a green building and sustainable. I love that. You know you're thinking about I was a volunteer ESL teacher for some years. Never had any problem meeting in the library or other spaces. So, you know it and community spaces I think all of that is good. I think it's too big and I don't think it's well thought out, and I think it's being pushed from the top down. So, and I don't think I was no balls chance and hell of altering this process which is well along the way. But I just feel I have to say that I wish there was some way that the state funds could be taken advantage of. But in a more thoughtful way. And I know the trustees really think that they have done this, but I don't agree with it. And I'll probably use the library and whatever fashion it's made, because I love it, but I don't, I don't think this is good. So, thank you. Laura, thanks for your comment. Laura Drucker, please enter the room. State your name and where you live. Hi, I'm Laura Drucker. I live at 57 Rosemary in District two. I have a lot of reasons why I think you all should vote yes tonight, but I'm speaking tonight specifically about climate action. I spent 14 years working on climate change. I'm currently the chair of the climate and energy and climate action committee although I'm speaking today as an individual. Burning fossil fuels to create energy is the main cause of climate change and pollution that severely impacts human health in our environment in Massachusetts. A third of our energy related climate change causing emissions are due to burning fossil fuels and mainly natural gas in buildings. In fact, Massachusetts is one of 10 states that accounts for more than 50% of climate emissions from building nation buildings nationwide. We need to be successful in reducing our contributions to climate change we need to work quickly and efficiently to get fossil fuels out of our buildings, and this will not be easy. So with all due respect to the often quoted the most sustainable building is the one that already exists. This is simply not true and we're talking about a building that relies on fossil fuels. Our town libraries account for nearly 20% of natural gas used by our municipal buildings. Natural gas that not only emits carbon pollution in our town when used, but that leaks even more potent methane emissions as it's piped across the country. Natural gas extraction has ruined water supplies landscapes and lives. The good news is that if by voting yes, to get this state funding, we will allow us to move the library away from natural gas. Not only that but this funding will allow us to create a library more conductive to public use with better temperature control healthier air and improved plumbing. Furthermore, we will be able to create a library that will finally be accessible and functional for a larger portion of our community. I truly believe this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the town to address. So many important things at once. I've lived in Amherst for more than six years and I've heard about this library building since then so I feel it. I disagree with the folks saying that this is moving too quickly. I'm just moving away from natural gas to huge climate when in my book, but in addition to getting rid of fossil fuels and significantly reducing the energy use of the building, even with its larger size. The design of this building also considers the climate impact of the building materials and construction that Todd, Todd and Sarah spoke about earlier and Chris. In recognition of the fact that new materials do have an environmental impact and we need to make sure that the new design has a lower climate footprint than the current library and it will. Could this design go further in addressing climate concerns sure and this is true of any design aiming to address many problems. Perhaps the current design could save more energy with a different approach to daylighting or maybe some of the operational savings due to the more efficient building could be reserved to fund other climate action in town. Things that can be discussed and debated after voting yes, do not throw away this opportunity by letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Thank you. Thank you for your comments Laura. Mara I believe your hand is still up from before and Laura you just put your hand back up. So we have 117 people attending tonight. And at this point I do not see any additional new comments. We have one more Jeff Lee, please enter the room and state your name, where you live. Hi, I'm Jeff Lee from district five. I'm troubled by what I think is an unprecedented move by the library trustees to spend 1010s of thousands of taxpayer dollars to hire a marketing firm to promote the library expansion project. So many positive comments to the town council may have been generated by this firm's efforts. This strikes me as undemocratic and unfair to the citizens who have legitimate objections to the library expansion proposal. And I feel that whatever if any borrowing maybe decided upon for a library expansion to be financed by a debt exclusion override vote. It would provide a truer gauge of the town wide popularity of the plan. It would lower the amount of future borrowing that would be need to be raised by an override for the an upcoming elementary school project. Thank you very much. Jeff thanks for your comment. David let's go. Please enter the room state your name and where you live. Tina, are you able to bring him in. Yes, I sent a request to unmute here we are. Yes, I inadvertently close the window. My name is David let's go I'm 80 years old and moved here with my wife in 1977 and we raised three boys here. Yeah, I've listened to the comments on both sides and I've been following debate in the paper and I've been listening to the experts. All I want to say at this point is that I am deeply profoundly grateful to those in 1928 that had the vision to build this library in the first place. And on behalf of and I want to thank the council and all the experts that have put in God knows how many hours on this thinking about this project. But I also want to thank you on behalf of those 50 years from now, who will look back with the same deep profound sense of gratitude that I have thanking you for voting for this project as I'm sure you will. Thank you. David thank you for your comment. Thank you for your comments at this time. Carol you've already spoken. I need to ask if there's anything additional that you feel you need to say. I would like to add a new fact if I may. Sure. One is that if we're prioritizing dealing with climate change we should look at the North Amherst library because that is on oil. And you could do one or two geothermal wells and eliminate the oil, which is worse than the gas use. I also think if we were going to spend 20 million to rehab the town to benefit climate change there are other ways that we could do that. I think the town can afford four projects. I don't think that's true because the town's planning to do an override so I agree very much with let the people decide which things they want to do an override for there there could be. There should be a polling of the town and as for the elementary schools. There could be two elementary school projects one of which starts immediately and many of us who voted against the mega school wanted to see two neighborhood elementary schools be rebuilt as soon as possible. And that's where we should be putting our money not on this project but again don't have the override be for the project that you know has support put it to have the override question be about whether or not this project has the support because I think that in absent any kind of effort to get a pulse on the town no survey whatsoever done by townwide by an independent company. It's really negligent to proceed with this project costing 20 million and then go back to voters and say please give us more money for the schools. Thank you. Thank you for your comments Carol. Emory Berger. Please enter the room state your name and where you live. Hi, I'm Emory Berger live on Woodlott Road in District five. And like, I've been here almost 20 years. I'm a professor at UMass. I've gone through all of their school in here, including Amherst public schools and UMass one almost out the door at UMass and other one has graduated recently. I just wanted to to add my voice in strong enthusiastic support of this plan. I've attended previous meetings I've been super impressed by the thoughtfulness and the care that has been involved in the development this proposal and to thank everybody for all their hard work. On behalf of the citizen spammers, we're truly privileged to have you all devoting your, your hard work on our behalf. And again, I really look forward to the council approving this. And I think it'll be just an absolute jewel for this town. Thank you so much. Emory, thank you for your comments. I'm going to adjourn the public forum and we're going to move on to the regular council meeting and I believe that Mike Morris is now with us based on the sunshine I see and we'll be ready to move on with the rest of the meeting. Thank you. Would you like us to roll straight into it. No, hold on Mike. I didn't think so I just I didn't know what that queue or that pause was so I just was making sure it wasn't for me. I appreciate your eagerness but I have to start the other meeting and get through just a couple more things. Okay. We've already taken role and as far as I know, nobody has had any technical difficulties. So given that we have a quorum of the council, I am going to call the April 5, 2021 council meeting to order at 728. I've already mentioned that we are have audio video and we it's live on Amherst media. If you have trouble, please let us know. And without further ado, we're going to show the announcements. And while we're doing that, I just want to mention one item, and that is on the announcement tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. And in front of town hall, there will be a flag raising ceremony for child abuse awareness and prevention month. And this is a resolution that was sponsored by the town council and Marlene is anti. We're going to go from that to the hearings. And so let me just start by asking Andy Steinberg to call the finance committee to order. The finance committee is, I believe, present fully including three members of the committee who are resident members, not council members, and they have not acknowledged that they can participate. I don't know if you want me to do that. Please do that. I'm sorry. Yes, Bernie Kubiak. Can you hear here and I'm present and I acknowledge presence. I'm present and I can hear you. I'm here. Jane Schaeffler. I'm here. Jane. Okay, so we have. All of the members of the committee present and I call this meeting of finance committee to order. Thank you. The reason we're doing that is because according to the charter, this is one of those times when the finance committee has to hold a public hearing. And the subject of the public hearing is in fact, the regional school budget. And so we're going to start this evening and welcome our four guests. They are Allison Donald chair of the Amherst Pellum regional school committee. Margaret stancer vice chair of the Amherst Pellum regional school committee. And Dr. Doug Slaughter, director of finance and operations. And I believe at this point I'm turning it over to Allison. Thank you. And thanks for having us here to share the budget with you all this evening. I know it's been in your packets and so. We've had a chance to review it all and we'll, we'll take you through. I'm going to begin tonight, giving an overview. Provide some context for the budget, as well as the high level overview and then Dr. Morris and Dr. Slaughter will take it over from there to go into more of the details of the budget and the assessment. Next slide. Actually, you can go down to the next slide. Our mission is to provide our students with high quality education to enable them to become contributing members of society. We seek to create an environment that achieves equity for all of our students and ensures that each student is a successful learner is respected and learns to respect each other. Next, we have strong leadership in our district, a diverse team of leaders with decades of experience, including Dr. Morris who has the strong support of the regional school committee and with whom we recently signed a contract extension. Next slide. Our schools enjoy a strong reputation for our programs on this slide. This is outtakes from the niche.com review of our high school. All of our schools in our district are reviewed on that website. Our reputation is strong for programs, students and teachers and we repeatedly hear people say that they moved here or are planning to move here for our schools. Next slide. In terms of our students, many of our students are considered high needs as defined by the State Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. In the last five years, we've seen growth in the numbers of students in our district who are economically disadvantaged, have disabilities, or are English language learners. And a note, over 50 different languages, it might even be more than that, are spoken by students and families in our district. Next slide. Our student population is becoming more diverse and the number of students who identify as Latino, Hispanic or African American black is increasing. Next slide. Thanks to major recruitment and retention efforts, the numbers of BIPOC staff working in our district also is increasing. Next slide. Our high school offers a rich academic program that offers a diversity of courses and significant levels of choice for students to find and pursue their unique learning passions. Two thirds of 11th and 12th graders are taking advanced courses and three quarters of all students take courses in the arts, including studio art and multiple music ensembles. And this slide includes some outtakes from recent performances, as well as art show, and the students there is the JETS team, which is a engineering mathematics competition, national competition of which I think in most years we've, our teams have ranked number one in the state. Next slide. These are some of our key goals and initiatives right now will be shifting to a later start time in the fall at our middle school and high school, essentially continuing our current pandemic era start times. As extensive research shows that this can have tremendous positive impact on learning outcomes and overall student wellness. We continue to support restorative justice practices and the implementation of anti racism curriculum. We continue to focus on increasing teacher and staff diversity. And we're looking to engage the community later this spring and summer to inform a decision around expanding the middle school to include the sixth grade. Next slide. For the upcoming fiscal year, the budget we're presenting of $31.9 million represents a $1.2 million cut to level services, a reduction that is on top of $800,000 in cuts to level services that we made for the current budget year. Before I turn it over to Dr. Morris, Dr. Slaughter to take you through some of these details. I'll share with you an overview of what we are funding in this budget. Next slide. At a super high level, as it's often stated, more than three quarters of our budget goes towards personnel, about half of which is for teaching staff in both regular and special education. Personnel related insurance and benefits represent one fifth of the total budget and nearly one third of our total personnel related budget. Gross expenditures for charter tuition represents 6% of our total budget, an amount that's not fully reimbursed by the state, which I'll come back to in a couple slides. Next slide. Digging a little deeper, looking at regular instruction, about $7 million of our total budget goes to personnel and expenses related to regular instruction. The donut graph on the right is showing our current budget year, because until this budget for 22 is finalized, we don't know the exact details, but it doesn't shift dramatically year over year. But this donut is showing that most of this spending for regular instruction is going towards our core academics and world language, which we also consider core academics. Next slide. About $6.8 million of our budget supports special education, and this budget shifts up and down in direct direct relation to the individualized needs of our students and special education. Most of our special ed budget goes toward education instruction and district programs, which includes contracted services and out of district expenses. Our budget for student programs and support services is fairly steady at $2.3 million, 40% of which supports guidance services. Next slide. We've talked a lot, and many of you are aware that enrollment in our district has been declining for several years, and our current school year decline of 4.7% is the steepest one year decline ever. Declining enrollment drives a reduction in our state aid, or Chapter 70 Fund, and some drivers, some drivers of the decline, namely the charter school tuition and choice also contribute additional costs, not all of which is reimbursed by the state. Next slide. This chart shows the net cost to our district for charter schools after state reimbursement. Showing enrollment, sorry, the net district cost since fiscal year 11, 2011 to the projected year. In that time period, our charter enrollment has grown 47%. And our net cost has grown 179% in that same time period. This is because the state reimburse is only about 10% on average of the tuition for charter schools over the last five years. The per pupil class is not saved when a student leaves because public schools are an economy of scale. And next slide. And this is where I'll turn it over to Dr. Morris and Dr. Slaughter to take us through these details. Sure, I'll, I'll describe a little bit and maybe taking a step back before we go forward, but thank you, chair McDonald for that. That really helpful context that we enter the nitty gritty of the budget with so just for people who just to bring everyone back up to speed so our regional schools are not part of the municipal budget in the same way the elementary school is regional schools are the best way to think of them perhaps as as a non for profit. We have to keep END so excess and deficiency, which is reserves, much like the town of Amherst does the regional schools have to do that they have costs that in municipal districts go lots of different directions at the regional level. They stay with the region and regional districts in Massachusetts state law are formed when multiple, multiple towns come together, because I think there's a benefit to educating students within a regional context in our region there's four towns Amherst, Leverett, Pelham and Shootsbury and it's been that way for quite some time, since I believe the 50s 1950s, and, you know, I think that has wax and wane in terms of some challenges that have come up over those that long time period, particularly as it relates to assessment method, but just want to note that because the purple bar you see there is total assessment. That's a really different terminology than what you would use see for the Amherst elementary school budget of the library budget or the police or the fire, because it's an assessment. That is assessed to the member towns that forms of as you see a healthy part of our budget I think it's also worth noting that the town share of funding the budget has increased while the state share is essentially flat. And if we if we took this out to the last 20 years you'd see that there's been a significant shift that the towns have had to carry more of the load shoulder more of that financial burden than the state and that's not true in our just in our community that's true in every community in the Commonwealth. So it is a real challenge and we try to balance the needs of students the needs of providing the high quality education our town does demand with the fiscal realities that come with being part of our regional school system. So I'll turn it over to Doug if he wants to say anything else about this particular slide but I just wanted to make sure everyone was on solid footing in terms of what a regional school district is and why this is operating at a different timeframe than the other parts of the town budget. Doug anything else you want to share on this particular side. It helps by unmute myself sorry. The only thing I would point out and we'll see this in more detail on subsequent slides where you see that lower state transportation reimbursement and any for budget support. Those are both sources of money that we utilize to help support our budgets. There's no doubt behind the transportation reimbursement being less as we had less transportation costs and those are held separate in regional school districts and reimbursed by the state. Separately, then, then the sort of chapter 78, and then the Indies about how are, you know, we in paralleling what is called town reserves or, or pre cash in the, in the town budget. The same type of thing we have some limits on how much of that we can carry year to year. We're utilizing less this year it's probably cash flow circumstance relative to the, to the pandemic and how things have played out over the last year so we'll get into a little more detail in the subsequent slide those a couple of things I want to mention there. Yeah, so as Athena transitioned us I think the key point also is the total assessment increase being requested this year is 1.5%. That's of all the member towns combined. That's not of the town of Amherst and we'll get into the details on that in a second but I think we can transition to the next slide. We're also conscious you have a healthy agenda and so we're trying to be rather brief but we'll open up for questions in a couple minutes so I think I can try to start with this one. Dr. Slaughter so what we are recommending and what was voted by the school committee is the 65% statutory method. It's a method that mixes the statutory or state defined method it is the state default method if the towns cannot come to agreement with the five year rolling average which is in the regional agreement. To be short it tries to mix the enrollment changes with some some ability to pay aspects and that's really where the statutory language comes through it is an increase in past years we started at 30 then you know 40 and you know so 65 is a jump you know and I think for those of you have been at four town meetings you know that it's a balancing act that we have to play with towns with different conceptions of what fairness is but we feel like you know I'll just say I'll feel like bluntly this is the method that has the best chance of passing all four towns. And so we stayed within the guidance of the town of Amherst which is a 2.1% increase towards the bottom of this slide you could see that it's there's significant variance between the four towns. And so that's the difference between what's being assessed this year and what the proposal has and again that's gets into this sticky business of assessment methods and you know relatively small changes in enrollment like Pelham is experiencing for next year means a significant increase in their assessment. It's a significant challenge for all of us at the regional level to manage this I think this is five or six years in a row that we have not had the same assessment method. And it's really trying to balance the needs and interests of the communities that that send our students send us students to be able to do that. Doug anything you want to add on this slide knowing that we're trying to be short on time so that there's if there's questions we can be a little more expansive from the council. Okay, I think then we can transition to the next slide. Okay. Actually I'm going to turn this one all to you Doug. Okay, nitty gritty beyond my level of detail so I'm going to turn it to you. Well, I'll be brief on this because a large degree of this has been shown in previous slides and in more colorful donut type charts, which, which make me a little hungry relative to the fact that it's dinner time but seeing here are the actual numbers that go and back up those those those donut style charts on the previous slides but but what you'll see is that the total of salaries is the is the largest part of our budget. And it has the biggest driver. It is the biggest driver of change in our budget is is our negotiated salaries and steps that we have with our with our employees. So all of our contracts are due for for negotiation. They all end on June 30 2021 and so we've made estimates about what those types of cost of living increases might look like. And put that into our factors here, as well as a step increases for those that are not at the top step of the salary schedule. Additionally, what you'll notice is there's a 3% overall barring any changes any ads or reductions in our budget. The expectation sort of the current year to next year would be about a 3% increase in our budget. However, to meet the, the ability of the four towns to to meet the assessment that's, that's, you know, necessary we're going to reduce our budget by $1.2 million to do that. Some of that is a result of some one time savings. So, and and some of it is a is a our actual reductions in services that we provide and and some of that's based on decline in number of students but some of that's also based in real reductions and things we offer. And we'll look at the subsequent slide will be able to get into that in a little more detail but but what you do notice here is is that like I said before, you know, people we're in a people business much like the town is and so when when our staffing costs change significantly that influences our budget in a pretty profound way and so it's the driver of most of our increases from one year to the next. So I think we're ready for the next slide. So in order to reach that that $1.2 million in reduction. You know, we made a number of changes and so the the items at the top here are typically one year savings, things that are are kind of one and done sort of one time money as it were. We have a, you know, for example, a health insurance premium holidays coming up and that will save us about $300,000 or so more than that. We have some reduction in our need for devices from technological devices because we've been allowed to and purchase a number of items through CARES Act money to support our students and have them be in able to be in remote classroom settings. There's some other savings in that regard. Similarly, you know, we turn over in staff retirees and new hires tend to have a difference in price. Some shifting of some costs from from one district to another those all help to support our budget in sort of a one time way. But the nitty gritty of the changes we had to make were largely in that lower section where we have budget reductions. The ones with lines through them are ones that we had considered but then subsequently did not need to to enact and in order to get to that 1.2 million in in reductions you see, and then the remainder of those are reductions that we were trying to execute in such a way as to impact students as possible, try to keep the the reductions as far from the students and their services as we could as we went through and and tried to make our budget work out relative to the support we have. Dr. Morris, did you have anything you wanted to add to that slide. No, I think we're running right up against our window. So I think if there's questions about any of the specific things on their proposed reductions or voted reductions then I certainly can answer them within context of the q amp a. And so I just, these are just some links to, you know, data the program of studies which, you know, if there's one thing on here, I know it's a budget hearing. But the program of studies is really worth looking at because I think it really shows the breadth of offerings at our high school and how unique it is. In terms of the elective programs and all the different ways that students can find their passion, their academic passion and then other other courses other systems they want to study it's not the high school. High school is a good high school different state. But we, by the time you're a senior you started taking electives that's not the case at Amherst regional high school, we really value and want students to explore different areas of study and I think it's worth taking a look at that link. And I think if you forward there's some benchmark data from other districts but you know we certainly I don't think we'll go through that necessarily it's more for people to be able to take a look at and take at this point unless Mr. Donald have anything they'd like to add we can end our presentation and open up for any questions that council may have. Okay, so let me just explain the process from here on we're actually going to run this like we do a regular hearing. And that will start with questions from the council, and then clarifying questions from the public. And then we asked those from the public who would like to speak in favor of the proposed budget. Those who would like to speak in opposition come next. And then finally we returned to questions from the council. Two other things I want to point out. The reason we take this budget off cycle is because the other three partners in our regional school district our towns, and their budgets come before their town meeting. And the second thing that I want to just point out is that later on in the agenda on the consent agenda, we will refer this to the finance committee, and the finance committee then we'll take it up in detail at their meeting or meetings over the next two over the next two meetings. So with that, are there questions from counselors, Dorothy Pam, please unmute and ask your question. Is it correct that you have a cut in arts and technology in this budget. There is no cut to technology the reduction to technology was based on devices we don't need to purchase as many Chromebooks because of we you know thanks to the support of the federal government as well as the town of Amherst and Paul. We're partnering with us on that we purchased those devices so when we talk about a cutting technologies because we don't have the devices that we don't need to purchase devices we need. There is a reduction in art at our middle school. We were, you know, blessed to have to our teachers for 400 person school that is frankly a bit out of inconsistent with partner schools or even our elementary schools which have one our teacher for the same number of students. So again, as we're looking at declining enrollment we do have to look at where cuts may be able to be realized that still offer a high quality education for students and in this case with declining enrollment. When we look at partner districts we look at other schools within our district we wanted to align the percentages to be accurate for the number of students. I would like to offer an opinion on this. We're recovering efforts many children a terrible year of not having in person school. And I think anything that involves using their hands, manipulating materials, problem solving, anything that allows them to develop a sense of self efficacy, and of saying yes I can do it. Even if it's out of line with other schools I just think there's a huge need now. And if there's any way to restore that money to the art I art program I would really recommend it highly. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you Dorothy Mandy Joe your comment. I have a number of questions I don't sit on the finance committee so I'm going to try and ask a bunch of them tonight, send some to Andy tomorrow because I don't, I know we have a busy agenda. But I apologize for asking so many I'm going to stick to one thing right now, which is the definition of level services. I'd like to know what the definition of level services is that you use because that is a definition that when you give a number you then talk about the cuts to that. And I asked this question. And then how do you calculate that quote number of level services and ask this because when I look at the quote cut sheet on page 48. The premium holiday is a reduction on under the cut sheet it's listed as a budget reduction, but it is part of that. It, I assume it was included in a level services number and then you're taking a number down, but it's not a decrease in services. It's a savings, whether it's a year or two, it's not something that I don't think personally should have been listed in a level services number. Many of those budget, budget adjustment sections are things that aren't cuts to services. And so, you know, then the next question I have is regarding the payroll numbers with level services when I interrupt because I say I noticed that you had a number of questions that might be useful because I think if you have a number of them, I don't necessarily believe those of us answering them will lose track of the questions if there's a number so with with your permission and, you know, the president's it'd be okay to maybe go one by one because I think otherwise we may give less satisfactory answers just because of our cognitive load. I'll refer to Dr slaughter who can speak to how we, how he comes up with the level service number. Sure. So, so what we do as far as level services we look at what our current status is at the time that we start forming our budget which is in, you know, essentially late October, November. We differ from what our budget was, because of the needs of the students that are in the school at that time are are likely different so you know our special education costs and staffing related to that are regular education staffing maybe slightly different so if you were trying to compare level services to what we ended up budgeting at the end of a budget cycle they're going to be a little different from that. Certainly, you know, understand the concept of the budget adjustments that we have and that those are from a level services budget we're deducting those things. They're not the same. I mean they're still caught if they didn't exist. I mean they're quite frankly to my opinion a fortunate opportunities to not slice more from our budget but at the same time if they didn't exist or they don't get they will result in other things being taken or being needed to be removed in order to support our budget so you know it's sort of in lieu of something else. You know it is in some ways definitely a little tricky and maybe a bit nuanced to say that but that is why we try to capture them separately from the rest of those. But at the same time they are there one time reductions. So if they didn't exist we would be making other more drastic cuts to actual programs and services that that seem more in the in the line with the definition of a cut or reduction. But at the same time there, there are cost avoidance in some circumstances not always. It just seems like they're not actual cuts to level services yet they are presented that way in the budget, at least the way I look at it. Similarly, I guess one of my questions with the payroll issues is, if a grade goes from 10 classes to nine classes and therefore requires one less educator. Would that be listed as a cut to level services or is that reduction due to enrollment declines part already a represented as a lower level services number again I'm trying to get to the definition of level services because a lot of people say we're cutting so much yet I look at the quote cuts and reductions and much of it does not actually look like cuts to services. And one one other question on this one and then I'll give someone else a chance. The level services number actually between the March 9 budget and the March 23 budget increased by $104,000 after it had stayed the same since February 2. I'll go down into where that increase was. It was in the regular education payroll line specifically to the math teacher payroll line in the high school and middle school, but the FTE numbers for the math department didn't change between the two budgets so what happened to actually increase the level services number between March 9 and March 23 when no employee increases were listed in the budget. Doug you want to take the second one because I can do the first part of that question. So I'll take the second part because it's it's fairly straightforward it's it's again I think traditionally the way in which we've utilized school choice money the lion share of the school choice money that we apply we apply to the mathematics department and in particular to the you know the regular education staffing and so when we were made aware. The day of the meeting with the regional school committee that there would be $104,000 roughly that would be available to us that wasn't available to us previously. We talked about ways in which we could incorporate that into the budget and what we did was we utilize less school choice than what we were previously planning. Difficult, I went back and forth about how to present that. It is in those lines to be perfectly honest the actual cost of the staff in those budget lines is much much higher because we use, you know, between $500 and $700,000 in a given year to support. You know, our, our services that we provide to your school choice monies and so if you'll notice those departments relative to other similar size departments like English. Notice that the salary lines are decidedly lower relatively relative to those as well and so it's really a shift in in in utilizing less school choice to preserve that money for a subsequent purpose. And so it is difficult to display I perhaps could have put it on to our ads and cuts it would have been in the section at the top under under changes to budget, you know, to budget additions and reductions. It's been similarly, you know, confusing, I guess, I haven't necessarily found the best way to present that kind of a late breaking change to, to, to those costs and so we're, we're leveraging less of our school choice reserves to support a budget so our, our general fund supported salaries are higher as a result of that. So part of your question. I fear it's not going to be satisfying but it is the answer that I that I believe in and will give is, you know, what's a level service, what's a cut based on enrollment and what's a cut based a decline in enrollment what's a base that's a decline in services I don't think it's a it's a neat definition. I think, like, I'll use the, the, there was a comment by a counselor before you about art. Right, so one could easily say, Well, we've declining enrollment, we've had to climb enroll while we're going to reduce art. Does that art reduction reduce the art, the number of art experiences available to students at the middle school next year per capita. The answer is yes, it definitely does we're not reducing enrollment by that level. It's a little argument made and I, to me I think yes because we've, I made it that I think we can realize this cut and still provide, you know, a high quality art experience for students in those cool yeah I think that's there so you know I think it's a good question I want to be honest and transparent to say that, you know, one could argue a number of these cuts, either way. I think the elementary it's a little cleaner were to use your example you have 10 sections next year you need nine sections you can make that adjustment. You know, the elementary budget, we probably should have done that in the elementary button put the one reduction there and adjustments we have before. But even that one then you're increasing class size, right, you know, by definition, even if you're saying well we can we can realize that it still may have an impact on class size so there's a lot of great. And I think that's what makes school budgets particularly hard as you're dealing with with with students and especially at the secondary level complex schedules. I think it's good feedback for us we appreciate that and we always try to think about how can we present things really cleanly but I don't think there's a chart that says enrollment driven reductions and non enrollment, non enrollment driven reductions. I think those two, if you did a Venn diagram that'd be an awful lot that's in the middle. Right, so we're trying to make intelligent decisions based on declining enrollment. If we weren't making the reductions would we have more opportunities for kids, you know, I'll use the art example. Absolutely there's no denying that. So that's I think where I struggle in communication and I'm happy to follow up offline any feedback that that you or any counselor has on us in terms of how to communicate that we'd be very open to. Thank you. I have a couple questions and if you don't have answers today maybe when we meet again at the finance committee. I want to just get a sense of the, the pay scales and step increases and how much with the salary budget go up. There were no colas, and it was just step increase. So that's one question, you know, if you took the whole salary budget, and people on, and then I can answer that one really quickly again unsatisfactorily so I apologize that that will be my answer but as we're in negotiations that would really be advisable for us to be sharing publicly, because we do, we did have to budget without contract increases that were agreed to and we're in negotiations so we would not make public some more financial data like you're requesting, because for a whole host of reasons but one could also one claim that that's negotiating in public. So, we, I can't answer that question I mean there's other things we maybe could follow up offline and be able to share but that's not something we can share in a public meeting at this point. So, the next we're going to be, you know, a get a sense of how many people have already topped out on the steps, or what share. So, I just had a, you know how much when Doug said the contracts are all open, you know, and since they're, I come from Union side, years and years but you know we're in an unusual time. So, I won't pressure more on that. And it goes with Mandy's overall question of, you know, if enrollment is declining and where we've got tight budgets, but you've got full benefits and you're being paid so I will not, I will not keep asking on that line. So, I think I think the second question you asked about what percentage of people are at top step. That's something I don't expect Doug to have for you right now but that that's the that would not be an issue to answer that question so Doug maybe could be able to I don't think he knows it off top of his head but maybe we could bring that to finance committee tomorrow. Okay. And again, I don't need this right away but do you regularly do salary comparisons both at the top administrative level, and then at any other top to the local valley, you know what other schools are paying is that regularly done in some way. Yeah, it's that's part of the negotiation process. The attorney for who represents the district routinely pulls those that data. And is it across the board so would be what what's principal paid what's the next, not just the people in the bargaining unit but all the way up and yeah yeah typically we do it more less formally for the people who are non unit because we do that with kind of superintendents in Hampshire Franklin and Hampton counties for the bargaining units it's a little more formal because it's more formal to, you know, that's the nature of union bargaining. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I had a request that I that I actually passed on to you, Mike, from a high school student who was interested in finding out about whether through the whole community services working group process and, you know, related to other departments in town whether, whether some Amherst police department funding for this year was, you know, if there's any discussions about it being targeted to other departments including the school department so I noticed that some of the reductions could conceivably be, you know, they could conceivably fall into the category of like the bilingual psychologist position and so on that that might be a place where funding could be moved from department to department I just wondering, have there been any discussions about that or is that something that's even considered to be something that could be done during this upcoming budget. And so I'm just throwing that out there as a, you know, like, have there been any discussions about that. So, two things one the bilingual psychologist position I just want to clarify this I'm glad you brought it up. It's not that we're not having the position is to do evaluations for students who particularly have background in Spanish and English. So we've had an open position position for a while it's not a direct service position it's just for special education evaluations, and we haven't found anyone that has the qualification so we'll continue contracting out that situation and there's some cost savings associated with what positions perhaps if all of a sudden the world got better. That's not necessarily the top on my list not because I don't value having full time position but we had it posted we can't find the person, and we found a successful model that's more efficient moving on the broader question you had, you know, where I mean, not to flip it back to the Council and to Paul but I'm the superintendent schools. Thankfully, for everyone in the world I'm not the superintendent public works right go for does a good job. If I was superintendent public works, you all would be dealing with many many more complaints about public works and technical limitations and similarly, you know, I work, you know, closely with all the town departments. But I think that's a conversation in terms of how the town prioritizes funding between departments that that that I respectfully I would say out of that's not sort of and as I see it my daily work that's for the Council and for the town manager to be involved in so, you know, for the student, you know, we did have some public comments, maybe the last month of the month before that was talking about use of town departments and we really encouraged people and the chair did this I think really well. So thank you Allison that if that's the conversation have that actually your group is the group to have it not so much the school committee which has a more limited role than you all get to enjoy I'm going to just raise a question because I am on the finance committee so I have the privilege of getting to grow you even further in future meetings. But when you come to our meetings, would you please give us a sense of how your cares money was spent, and in way particularly in ways that it has relieved your budget, and how you look to the new federal dollars, and how you see them relieving your budget and or being used for extra things. Okay, so it's not even a question now. It's to say, please come prepared to discuss that. Thank you. Mandy job. Yeah, thank you. Just two more things one of which is not a question to thank you. I had questions about why the 65% assessment method was picked. You did answer that during your presentation in terms of that's where the school committee and and the superintendent and I'll believe there's the best chance of getting something that wouldn't force us to move to the state required law. So thank you for answering that and explaining why that one was because I had questions about that based on four towns meetings. The next question is, I think probably more for the chair and vice chair of the regional school committee particularly the chair. The motions that the regional school committee voted said that they'll send, especially for the capital one send the capital requests to the quote board of select men of the individual towns. Our home charter has been in effect for three years, and it required our Amherst members of the regional school committee to seek modifications to bring the regional agreement into conformance with the charter. So my question is, we don't have a board of select men anymore we're operating in a gray area with motions like that, in terms of who gets to and all and we've done okay with that. But what progress has if any has been made on looking at our regional agreement to bring it in conformance with the town charter now, and what is the anticipated timeline for doing so. Thanks for that. Oh, yeah, go ahead. I think that one because I typically put that motion language together and and to some extent it's a matter of of changing the wording of the motion is not really driven by what is in the in the in the regional agreement per se it's more a matter of getting the language in the motion to to the count to the school committee, tidy up in that regard I think that I might have gotten it accurate last year and then and then omitted it this year. I think that's a portion oversight on my part. But nonetheless it's it's I think the critical piece to know is that it is the requirement is that we send notification to the, you know, the appropriating committee, or, you know, so in a town with us, you know, it's the select committee because they are then the persons that call town meetings, and that's where they would actually take action on, or if they choose to they don't actually have to take take action on it so you can sort of sit on it and it automatically gets approved in in the circumstance with the council. You know we did send in notification to the council through through the treasure of the regional schools. The material effect is is the same. It going to the council for for notification and action or in action. If you don't take action on it and it is by de facto approved but but nonetheless it was sent to the appropriate body. It's a matter of linguistics that we need to tidy up as far as the motion language. And, but as far as the material effect as long as we get it to you, the appropriate governing body in each of the towns, and then we've met the requirement of law. I do think that Mandy Joe has raised another question, and that is the issue at what point do we all need to take a look at the regional agreement and bring it in line with the town charter. And that's a whole different issue. Okay, I'm not seeing any more questions from counselors will have an opportunity at the end. I would like Allison to address my question about whether the members of the regional school committee have made any progress on modifying the regional agreement and if not what the timeline is for doing so. We have not our focus immediately after in the first year after the new town charter was focused on our policies, which actually govern most of our operations on the regional school committee. So we did tackle and go through I think in in cooperation with Paul and the town hall in terms of going through our policy handbook and identifying which things needed to be updated. And we have have worked through those. We have not as as Dr Morris alluded to gone back to the regional agreement and that's a much bigger nut to crack I'd say. Thank you for the update. Alyssa question. Yeah, it is definitely a question I really appreciate the way Mike responded to the we're always open to feedback answer as to how budgeting works. And I just want to put in another plug for things just being a little clearer explained in text when charts don't really do it. Even pretty donut charts can often not do everything you want them to do. And although I personally have kind of given up on this argument having been part of it since 2002. I was reminded tonight of the argument that, you know, the math department costs from year to year, for example, just like the planning department costs from year to year on the town side. And I guess if you push them up and down, because of grants, or because of use of school choice money. It looks like you've changed something. It looks like you have fewer FTE or more FTE, or it looks like the responsibilities have changed. But in reality, it's just the funding source that's changed. And so I appreciate, we do it the way we always do it. But then it's no surprise that it's really hard to explain to the average person looking at this on the street, much less to some of us when we're trying to compare apples to apples. So just think about, you know, if you miss makes you do it that way, you know, that's that's a pretty good refrain, but if there's a way that you can put some text in there that explains that to people that there is no change in this FTE. It's just that how we're paying for it is what's changing would be really helpful so thank you for that and I will say the same thing to Paul because we will get budgets that have the exact same concerns just like we always did at town meeting that looks like the percentages varied widely and they really didn't. Okay, are there any other comments from counselors before I go to public comments. And the first public comments I'm looking for are those that are in favor of the present school budget. We don't seem to have any of those at this time. Then I'm going to ask for those people questions from the public Lynn. Thank you so much Mandy Joe. The first thing is, are there any clarifying questions from the public. Jose Lugo please enter the room state your name and where you live. Good evening everyone I'm Jose Lugo, I live at 52 Jeffrey Lane here in Amherst and a clarifying question regarding the technology position in the previous budget slide show that was presented was shown that I'm going to excuse me jump in there that there was a cut to specials and technology was going to be reduced to four days a week at each school did I miss that in in your reply regarding the technology budget cuts. Yeah, so this is where our complicated governance gets more complicated so that's a reduction that was in the Amherst elementary school budget this tonight's presentation and discussion. It pertains to the regional school budget which is grades seven through 12 so you are correct that there was a budget reduction recommended in past relates to technology but it's for a different district. Okay, thank you for the confusion. Say that budget will come forward on May 1 when the town manager presents his budget for the full town. Okay. Are there other question clarifying questions from the public. Seeing none I'm going to then ask, are there any people from the public who would like to speak in favor of the budget. Then how buddy, how about people in the public who would, I'm sorry, Gabrielle Gould. Please enter the room and state your name and where you live. Thank you Gabrielle Gould 34 Canton Avenue. I just want to start with thanking just water Mr Morris, Miss McDonald. This is a ton of work I can't even imagine trying to put all of these into a line item I do just quickly want to state a voice of support for something that Dorothy Pam mentioned earlier and that is for the arts. Number four, as to who have remained home schooled or at home schooled for the last year. I cannot even begin to express what I think the ripples of the effects of this past year are going to be for the children and the students across the nation across the world but here in the arts field. They, I, as a former artist that someone who ran a theater for many, many years. I know the impact that they have. We chose to move here two and a half years ago for the high school. And we are still we stick by that it was the best decision we made. But part of it was that incredible arts program that you have, especially you know I think about Mr Beck told and all that he does that my son is enjoying currently as we speak. And I just want to put, you know, if there's any wiggle room on that, please consider it, and then to take this way back to the beginning of this meeting. If these are the cuts that need to be made to continue to move forward and to continue to give the best we can. That library is more important than it could ever have been in the past. As we move forward for the future of our students and as arts deplete across the nation, libraries and their ability to move forward into 21st century are going to be very important to continue to bring the arts to our kids and to ourselves. Thank you all again for all the work you've done. Are there any other comments in favor of the budget. Are there any comments or public comments in opposition to the budget. We have one call in user. Enter the room state your name and identify where you. Okay, thank you very much. This is Vincent O'Connor 175 Summer Street and Amherst. And I would preface my my comments by saying, you know with regard to the financial of the budget that if maybe there are some people who are around at the time but Pioneer Valley Performing Arts Charter School and I'm not a supporter of Charter Schools and voted against them every time I could at the state level. But that Charter School developed because of budget cuts in a recession at late 80s early 90s and then I think the Chinese Immersion School unfortunately resulted from a an elementary school reception of those who proposed that the the immersion process take place within the Amherst schools. So, that having been said I'm I've been constantly dismayed by the inability of the school committee to obtain from our, our two institutions of higher learning, dedicated money, especially for the regional budget from Amherst College and from UMass. They have an impact on the town which is substantial and their contributions to the town directly to the town budget all this other contribution doesn't mean anything when you come down to having to cut things out of the school budget. And we need cash and I am, I would just urge the school committee members and the administration to, given that some of the federal money that's going to be available. We need a five year deal with Amherst College to contribute some hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to the regional schools. With respect to particular situations like the, the cut at the middle school to the arts program that that per capita thing comparison to to the elementary schools is just not well. I don't receive it well, because the level of instruction as children get older needs to needs to meet their capabilities. And therefore I really think the position should be maintained and absent of course an immediate contribution or an agreement with Amherst College and with UMass with regard to the regional schools. My recommendation for consideration by the council is that while the regional process involves a process whereby with three of the four communities. Vote the budget, then the remaining community is obliged to pay whether or not they want to. There we've had previous discussions in town of making gifts. And of course, gifts, gifts can be directed. And my opinion on a one year basis given the situation, the, that everything has been through. I think the council should consider in concert with the regional school committee. Targeted gifts to maintain certain programs because the history is that when you lose programs, it's easier to lose them than to get them back. And they and many things that have been lost in recessions and tight budget years have not come back. Witness the elementary school language program. And, and I think it's a tragedy quite frankly when you have 50 languages spoken at a regional school district to have as few world languages being offered to students as we have. So I think a targeted gift by the town of Amherst to the region. For the purpose of supporting specific programs during this coming budget year that is going to be a tough one because of all the circumstances we're aware of. I think would be a, a really worthwhile investment in the future of the regional schools. That we simply don't need another, we don't need to encourage the existing charter schools, or the, the establishment of additional charter schools by making, I think, very short sided, unwise cuts. And the town of Amherst can step in and do something about it. And, and if you can partner with the university and Amherst college. I think it would be wonderful to do that. But I think even with our own funds on a one year basis. I don't advise, you know, doing something for 10 years out. But on a one year basis, I think of limiting the number of budget cuts in specific areas, which I think would have a detrimental effect on the, on the future of the regional schools. I think would be a very wise action by the, by the council. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm going to ask us to use the clock and remind people to limit your comments to three minutes. Lydia irons, please enter the room and state your name. Hi everyone. I'm Lydia irons I live at 43 Jeffrey Lane. And I want to start by thanking everyone here who is a citizen that stayed on this call so that they can speak up on this topic. And I know for my own self it is a ton of work to keep track of these meetings and to read all your packets and to come prepared to speak. So thank you for all of those people too. I want to also thank Darcy Dumont for bravely pointing out what I know myself and other people that are listening and on this meeting fought about the funding between departments. And I've been on school department meetings and I've been to these town council meetings and you all know what I'm going to say which is that there is money in budgets. This budget that is incredible to me that we've been talking about this for over 40 minutes to have this argument over. You know what seems like in compared to the Amherst police department budget scraps. And, you know, I come not just with my opinion but also with research. Education is a public safety measure, and the police department is directly at odds with that. I think that one of the things that you all really need to consider is that in taking any money out of the schools, you are actively defunding education in our town. I've been told time and time again that saying defund the police is bad press. It's a bad move is a bad look, but you're defunding education if you make any cuts to these school budgets. So instead of thinking about it like that think about right sizing the budgets in our town, while simultaneously refunding our schools. So one study conducted by the council for a strong America, an organization that includes law enforcement leaders found an increasing graduation rates by 10% points would prevent over 300,000 violent crimes and nearly 175,000 aggravated assaults in America each year. When you think about it in this light, reducing school funding constitutes as a grave threat to public safety. Bloated police budgets in school districts that are lacking money for paraprofessionals which will be taken out of this school's budget. Psychologists, which was mentioned already in this call and academic interventions such as arts aren't preventing crime. In fact, when you defund the schools. They may be an unintended unintended contributor to it. So I would like you all to think back to the meetings that you have had where you have heard people talk about Amherst police departments bloated budget. And now think about how you have been hearing this debate here about the school's budget. If you want to learn more, there are some really wonderful articles out on the internet, including one by Stephen boat right called defund the police we've been doing that to schools for years. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your comments, Lily. I want to remind people this is a hearing about the school budget. It is not about the town budget. It is about the regional school budget. Allegra. Please enter the room state your name and where you live. My name is Allegra Clark. I live at 189 Cherry Lane in District two. And I am a graduate of Amherst High School, and I am a future parent of two young children who will be in the school district eventually. I'm speaking tonight because I fundamentally oppose any cuts to the school budget, especially cuts that will support mental health programs and the arts. This past year has taken a huge toll on our kids taking a huge toll on our communities. And we have to think creatively about how to support them as they transition back into what a new normal will look like in school. I've been on calls with the school committee where we've heard parent after parent, talking about the mental health impacts that this pandemic has had and being at home has had on their kids. And to be cutting special ed services and mental health positions, it seems out of line with what the district is trying to do when it says that it wants to support social and emotional well-being. Also, in terms of arts, some people can't process their feelings and their emotions by talking. I have art as an outlet, and I say this from my experience as a clinical social worker working with children in the criminal welfare system, well, both the criminal justice and the child welfare system. I've been able to create things and speak through pictures in ways that they couldn't do when sitting and talking to somebody. So to take away funding for art is just, I think, really doing a disservice to the kids that are really struggling right now. I was at a webinar today that was discussing the drivers of involvement in the criminal justice system and it spoke about access to technology and STEM programs and access to arts and extracurriculars as having a huge impact on reducing disparities racially in school districts and that was a program that was put on by the National Academy of Sciences and it did talk about mental health care in schools as a way to help reduce the disparity of who gets involved in the criminal justice system as well. So in passing, I will say, defund the police, refund education, care not cops. Thank you. Zoe Crabtree. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. My name is Zoe Crabtree. I live in District five. I just want to briefly say that I heard at the beginning of the presentation tonight about the school budget, a lot of pride and joy about the diversity of the student population. How that population is becoming more diverse over time, how the staff is becoming more diverse, and how one of the district's focuses is moving forward is really focusing on diversity and equity in the school, and I think that's lovely. I also heard that a lot of the students in the district are considered high need students by the state and that many students are English language learners. On page six of your presentation, the slides that talk about the student demographics, it shows that compared to the 2017-2018 school year, the current school year has had an increase of number of students with disabilities, an increase in the number of students who are English language learners as well. Which to me means that services for the students would also need to increase. And yet when I'm looking at the list of cuts, the cuts include, as we've talked about, options for bilingual psychology. It sounds like there's kind of a contracted workaround for that. And maybe it's still in process to try to find a person, but as the previous caller was saying, when positions get written out of budgets, they often don't come back, even if you then were to find the right person. Other cuts include a special education teacher and three pair educators and translation services. Those things all serve the students that are becoming a higher proportion of the students at the school, and then I heard a lot of pride and joy about having in our district. So those don't seem to fit to me. And I think that if we're going to be speaking so proudly about the diversity of our student population and the diversity of our staff, and kind of touting that as a positive thing about us, then we really need to be putting our money in line with those values. Instead of talking kind of performatively about how well we're doing in that space, but at the same time reducing funding that would support students. Thank you so much. Thanks Zoe. Kristen Rogers, please enter the room, state your name where you live. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, great. So, I guess I have a mix of questions and comments so one of them is about in the beginning of the presentation. And I know because I've been part of the committee who was talking about the sixth grade moving up to the middle school so part of my question is about the cut to the art teacher. I know that that cut is related to decreased enrollment and numbers at the middle school being pretty low. Has that also been considered that when and if hopefully when the sixth grade moves up to the middle school. What would those numbers look like and then with that teacher being cut, would that also still support adequate art classes for the, you know, the sixth, seventh and eighth grade students is one question I have and then a comment I have just about I work in the schools I'm an occupational therapist and I know we have students who have moved out of district and so I think part of the paraprofessional cutting could have to do with that but I also just want to say that a lot of students because they missed so much school because they weren't able to access remote learning or returning with quite a bit of deficits and we don't know what that's going to look like next year I'm hopeful that it will look more positive than what we perhaps are thinking about. I just would like to state the reality that a lot of these kids are going to need support and our paraprofessionals are absolute lifesavers and in being able to support those kids access their curriculum in the way that they need so thank you all for your work on this. Mr slaughter and Allison and Mike that was great. I wonder if I respond to that because it was a question in there. Yeah, is that okay. So I think the, the short answer for the sixth grade if sixth grade was up to the middle school, the most likely scenario, I'm being very cautious my words but the most likely scenario would be that the if sixth grade students from the town of Amherst were educated at Amherst regional middle school that there would have to be a lease or rental agreement of space it's less likely in my opinion that there would be a full rental agreement as such any staff members who would be working with sixth graders would be members of the Amherst public schools, not the Amherst Pellum regional school district so in terms of sixth graders moving up any reductions that the region would not have an impact on that conversation because there are different districts and likely would stay will stay different districts moving forward. And in the weeds, you know, certainly could follow up with me on any thoughts or any of us any thoughts about that sixth grade question as was mentioned earlier will be reengaging that next month. And I was going to say that is a question that you will be reengaging and eventually, I'm sure we will Bridget Hayes please enter the room state your name and where you live. Bridget Heinz I'm sorry. Hi there. Can you hear me. My name is Julianne Heinz I apologize. I'm using my mom's computer. I hope you can hear me, but I would like to make a comment. As to the cutting of the school budget, particularly the regional school budget. I know that one of the positions to be caught in the arts department was actually my art teacher last year. I know that I have many friends whom will be going into the high school after over a year of remote learning who will be needing more support and any more support that is done, obviously comes along with needing more funding. So, what I would say is, I think we're going in the opposite direction of where we need to go, given that that the pandemic has exacerbated the need to fund education and fund the mental, social, emotional and educational health of all our students, not just some. And I would say that whether finding that funding in another overfunded department, for example, the police department or finding that funding through Amherst College, as was mentioned by a former high school student in the Amherst Indy and the Gazette, or if we find that funding in payment of lieu of taxes through UMass or in some other way, I would strongly encourage you to use every open avenue of where you can find the funding to make up these cuts before you decide to cut this exact budget. And what I would leave you with is that it is when you are cutting or asking for money from somewhere like the police department or Amherst College or UMass, you know that is already a department or an area that has most of the money they need to do their jobs. And what I would say is that the schools, both nationwide and within our town have not had the money they needed for a long time, and the cuts that are made do not always come back as we have seen in the last financial crisis. So what I would leave you with is to explore all possible avenues of refunding the schools instead of cutting the budget when there is dire need. I see my time running out and I thank you for your welcoming of my comment. Nice to have you join us tonight. I hope you've been well. Marisol Pierce Boniface, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Thank you, Lynn. My name is Marisol Pierce Boniface. I live on 30 Harris Street and I am from District 1. I'm going to speak from a letter that Aaron Andrews and I published or tried to publish to the Daily Hampshire Gazette. As young people growing up in Amherst, we have seen the local government prioritize the Amherst Police Department over education. Amherst Police Department officer salaries are 87% above average and 6% higher than teachers. With a 5.15 million police department budget, we see no need to cut Amherst education system and strip Amherst youth of an adequate accessible learning environment. As students of Pioneer Valley Performing Arts, a school outside of Amherst, it is alarming and disappointing that we feel the pressing need to speak our voices on a decision that should be simple. Does Amherst prioritize the raising of young people in this town or do we prioritize the police? Cutting the budget of the Amherst High School is especially dangerous during this pandemic. Adapting to these challenging circumstances is universally felt by students and teachers across all school districts as we try to re-carry the same educational experience at a distance, keeping mental health as a priority. All schools are already struggling with the same small available funds to keep going and taking that away from the Amherst schools who put students and teachers mental stability, education and overall well-being at risk. At this pivotal point in our country, amidst national crowded to fund the police due to police brutality and racial discrimination, we must decide who we want to become. Will it be a country looking to the past, following the grim history of unjust law enforcement or to our future, the children and me, currently in the education system you wish to defund? The history of police comes from slave patrols, an institution dead set on suppressing people of color. We cannot treat everyone equally and protect every person in the United States and in Amherst if we are to constantly put the police department before fundamental rights. We cannot treat everyone equally if we are continuously recreating the past instead of empowering the future. Town council and town manager Paul Bachman, please cut the Amherst police department instead of the Amherst Pellum regional schools budget. The result of this budget cut to where schools would be all too dire and thank you Darcy for bringing this to light on the council. Thank you for your comments Marisol. Margaret Sawyer, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Thank you. It's nice to see you all tonight. Thank you for listening. I'm a parent of a fourth grader and a first grader at Fort River. And I work at the Pioneer Valley Workers Center. I just want to first appreciate that the school district did a great job today. My first grader got arrived very happily at school and my fourth grader is excited to go back to. And as an elementary school parent, I appreciate that the district has been committed to what I see. I've seen a lot of commitment to equity and to trying to do their best to serve students. I hope that there'll be some creative thinking about how to maintain staffing as much as possible. These positions that are being considered for cuts are really important and I especially work closely with the family center, the Amherst Family Center and I was really concerned to see that there would be a cut there. And that community center knows the parents of our students so well and does a great job. The, a lot of the paraprofessionals too that I've seen on the elementary level have done such a good job looking out for students. So I hope that folks can be creative here. I share the concern that the police budget is too high. And I hope we can be creative in finding some better ways to preserve the school's funding. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Margaret. I'm going to come back to the council at this point, ask if there's any additional questions from the council. Before we take a break. Alyssa. So I have three things that might be better hand, well, two of which might be better handled by a simple email to the finance committee. We'll see. One is associated with we've heard a good bit tonight as well as of course in the press leading up to tonight associated with mental health and wellness and while there is one little mission vision slash paragraph about that in the slides. So that phraseology mental health or wellness isn't mentioned in any of the line items. I know they're very unis driven, but again as part of telling our story to show people that we are ready to welcome students back. I think it's helpful that the school committee which I know has discussed this can help the town council express this as well since we have district meetings and other methods of outreach with people. So the people who have kids in school right now who are more paying attention to school committee things are people who are very, very concerned that we do have enough money set aside for this one assumes the way we're paying for that since there's no evidence we're paying for it through the budget based on the way the line items labeled is that we're paying for it with federal money. And so that may come out as part of that conversation Lynn mentioned associated with cares act money. But again, you know telling our story to show people. Yes, we're doing sensible things. I trust the school committee to do those things I would just like them to help me be able to explain them to other people. In terms of the slightly more technical things that are perhaps better for finance committee. There was a document placed in our packet several days ago which I appreciate very much that we had it. It's a eight a budget related motions regional school committee 0323 2021. It doesn't make any sense to me that we as a town council were given a document with draft motions on it. Those aren't the final motions that were voted because if they were voted they would have a quantum of a vote on them because you had a remote eating. There's one small date at the top that says March 23. That document feels very drafty to me and is not helpful to me in terms of understanding was the something you were going to vote on is the something you actually voted on. So if we could have that technicality taken care of in future that we're only given things that show actual votes of things not just assumed votes. And one of those of course was in regards to my final item which is associated with the region with the capital items and we already had the conversation about how the motion said select boards because you know copy paste from year to year. But the other part of that is is for the town councils benefit. I think we need to have the finance committee discuss how it is that the finance committee can automatically get that letter every year and tell us the town council whether or not we should hold such a meeting within 60 days because very traditionally in hammers I think I fixed it one year that I was chair select board. We just let that go by because right the default is of course we already talked about it at four towns meetings of course it's fine it's fine it's fine but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that you know we just don't worry about it. It feels like we ought to be able to refer it directly to finance committee when it comes in without town council having to do anything except Lynn to say hey here and then the finance committee say back to us to town council yeah that's exactly all the stuff we talked about no need to have a meeting it's awesome, or if there is something but if there's no process associated with that it's easy for that to kind of just slip under the radar and it feels like we shouldn't let it do that. Thank you listen. Mandy Joe. I just wanted to in in response to a number of the comments. Echo superintendent Morris is indication and I think Dr slaughters indication that some of the budget tightness is not necessarily related to the assessments that the towns have been paying it's related to level funding at the state. And the drop in the percentage of state funds that are supporting a regional budget and a local school budget, as it compares to the amount of the local funds that are supporting it so I want to encourage everyone. I think that comment tonight that believes the, the school budget is underfunded to talk to our state rep Mindy Dom and our state senator Joe Coma for and urge them to, when the states going through their funding process to increase funding to schools on the state budget because it really has been a, I think Dr slaughter Mike, the superintendent Morris can can tell us exactly what the percentage used to be like a decade ago, and what it is now. And that might be something useful to hear, but it really has had a dramatic effect on just funding in general of schools. Thank you. Very good point. Andy Steinberg. Since we're very good conclusion tonight. On behalf of the finance committee to remind fellow counselors and the public at large that the finance committee when it adjourns tonight will reconvene tomorrow at 2pm. And this is the only real item on the agenda to continue the discussion of the regional schools. I just wanted to speak a little bit about the process. So the for the counselors who are interested in continuing the discussion. It did not get posted as a council meeting so that if there's more than one additional counselor there besides the five who are on the finance committee. You would have to be in the attendee group. But what I'm going to be doing is chair then is to make sure that I am very early in the agenda as we're talking having the discussion within the finance committee of seeing what counselors want to raise questions and do that. As a part of the beginning of public comment, so that there would be time to address further questions tomorrow and I think it's the only process that we can use at this point. The other option is what's been mentioned by a couple counselors and you're welcome to do this. And that is to forward questions and we will ask the questions that are forwarded to us. So, just wanted to touch on those process things. Thank you. Shalini you have a comment or question. I had a question about the will, will the report from the community safety working group with the police be available to us in time to affect the budgeting for the police and I'm sorry I didn't understand the answer to the question around whether that funding can be used for schools. That actually will come up later when we discuss the memo from Paul. Okay. Any other questions. Andy I'm going to call on you to adjourn the finance committee. So the finance committee is adjourned. I want to thank the resident members for attending this evening and finance committee as I just said we convene tomorrow at 2pm. And I want to thank the school chair and vice chair Margaret for being with us tonight, and also Mike and Doug, and we'll see you tomorrow afternoon. Thank you. Thanks for having us. The hearing is now adjourned. The council is going to take a five minute break and come back immediately, please when you come back, put your video back on, but make sure you mute. Okay. We are actually have in addition to the specific public comment periods we had tonight. We also have general public comment. This is on items that we've not spoken to or even whatever, whatever it is you would like to speak to. Please raise your hand if you'd like to make a general public comment. Linus this our last public comment of the night. It is just to. Just a clarification. Is there any other public comment at this time. All right, seeing none, then we are going to move on to the consent agenda. And the following items were selected because they were considered to be routine and it was reasonable to expect they would pass from the controversy. To remove an item, please let me know. To remove an item does not require a second. I'm going to move items as follows and I'll be looking for a second to move the following items and the printed motions they're under and approve those items as a single unit. Suspend town council rules of procedure. Rule 8.4 for the following agenda item. 8C amendment to town manager public safety goal. Referral of school. Regional school budget to finance committee. And 11 a approval of minutes from March 22nd, 2021. Regular town council meeting. And March 22nd, 2021 special town council meeting minutes. Public forum. Is there a second. Second. Okay, thank you. I'm going to move items that anybody wishes to remove. Seeing no cans. I'm going to go ahead and begin the vote with Alyssa Brewer. Hi. Pat D'Angeles. Hi. Darcy DeMont. Yes. In Greece Merz and I. Mandy Johanna key. Hi. Earthy Pam. Hi. Evan Ross. Hi. George Ryan. Kathy Shane. Yes. Steve Schreiber. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Hey. Sarah Schwartz. Hi. Family ball mill. Yes. We have no resolutions. We have no presentation. And so we are going to move immediately to the Jones library appropriation. Let me begin this by saying. Because of a potential appearance of favoritism. Or influence as defined by mass general law. Chapter. Chapter two eighty two sixty eight. A paragraph. Twenty three B three. To the Jones library item. We will now discuss. I asked two counselors. To individually contact the Massachusetts state ethics commission. And discuss their perceived conflict. Counselors Dorothy Pam and Andy Steinberg have done exactly that. And if we can. With our town clerk. I am now going to call on counselor Pam and then counselor Steinberg. And have each of them read their statements and ask that they be appended to the minutes of tonight's meeting. George. As an Amherst town counselor. And member of his finance committee. I consider and vote on many issues. Including those with respect to the Jones library. My husband Robert Pam is an elected member of the board of trustees. And treasurer of that library. The town council acts on the annual budget of the Jones library. And we'll decide on whether to contact. Contract. With the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. For the renovation. Slash expansion. Of the library. Or. To limit the town. To its repair. My husband has no financial influence. My husband. Has no financial influence. My husband has no financial influence. To limit the town. To its repair. My husband has no financial interest in the library. Nor is he paid for his services. As treasurer of the Jones library. He reports on the financial status of the library. I will continue to make my decisions. Based on the presentations and materials that are being provided to all council members. And have concluded that I can be fair and objective. When I perform my official duties. Dorothy S. Pam. Amherst, Massachusetts. Go ahead. Okay. The announcement. What is you stand for. Councilor district three. Thank you, Dorothy. Please unmute Andy. Sorry. Let me try it again. I've said. Is I need to look at the. The. Discussion that I found with the ethics commission. After consulting with commission staff. But my wife is a part-time hourly employee in the library working approximately six hours per week, and additionally as needed. And though it is generally limited to the six hours. And I'm going to read this section that public employees may not participate in their public position and matters in which they or any member of the immediate family have a personal financial interest. The ethics commission and determined that neither I nor a member of my family will have any financial benefit or loss as a result of the council decisions on the matters that are coming before the council tonight. Thank you, Andy. And we will make sure that both of those statements are appended to the minutes. I would like to move on to a finance committee report with regard to the Jones library appropriation. I'm going to really rely on the written report and more importantly, a lengthy document of questions that came from not just members of the finance committee but members of the council. I would like to look at large that we responded to over the course of two different meetings and the ways as a finance committee spent considerable time reviewing that information asking additional questions, which is why it actually stretched over in part the meetings and the that has been provided to you in the packet. And this alongside it was really a very brief report. The finance committee voted that the information is a thank you and maybe I should see if I can quick. Well, I don't. I'm not going to because you have the motion as passed in the finance committee report, but we have great appreciation for all of the staff town staff library staff volunteers to the library library trustees who provided information. We had great confidence in the information presented after the amount of time that was spent talking with the committee, and we found that the presentation is a is a financially that we had confidence in the information presented in the last thing and I'll just note is that we had made a determination early on that our goal is not to make a specific recommendation to you, but to just review information and report that information back to you and validate the information but not to make a recommendation. So, I think that's the report. Thank you, Andy. So let me just explain we have three potential motions. Before the council. I'm going to start each section by reading the motion and asking for a second. And then we'll have council discussion. And then if there's any further discussion will take the vote on that motion and move on to the next motion. The first motion is regarding the CPA funds. The second motion is regarding the overall bond bonding. Should we decide that we are accepting the grant from the mass board of library commissions. And the third motion is that we do not need to authorize the town manager to accept the grant so there is no motion for that. And BLC is very clear that as long as we passed the bond, then the town manager is authorized. However, the third motion then is to authorize the town manager to enter into the MOU with Jones Library Inc. So I'm going to begin the first by reading the motion and then I'm looking for a second in accordance with Charter section 5.6 having been published on the town bulletin board for a minimum of 10 days on March 25 2021 public form held on April 5 2021. And having been reviewed by the finance committee report of April 5 2021 to adopt council order FY 22-08 a an order appropriating and authorizing debt for special collections facilities of the Jones library under historic preservation as presented. Is there a second. Brian second. Thank you. Council discussion please raise your hand. Kathy Shane. Yeah, I have a few questions about this. So one is the CPA request for support. I initially came as a surprise to me because the library has put it under the column of private fundraising and it's taxpayer dollars. So a question I had raised at the very beginning of when the library had said the town taxpayer share would be 15.751 million. The CPA was part of that 15 or is it an additional 1 million. If we vote on this now. Are we saying, could it still be part or are we saying it is over and above the second asked, which is from the general revenue so that's a question. If we vote on this motion the way it is generally it is stated now and been made and seconded this million dollars would go toward the fundraising of the library. So voting against it wouldn't be. If you vote against it. It's not necessarily that you don't want to spend the money but you want it to be counted in a different way. That would be one option. Another option would be to try to amend the motion. Can I ask a second question. I don't think we've been told but how. What is the assumption on how long be long term debt for the CPA fund CPA resources, do we know what kind of interest rate and what, in addition to the million dollars will be drawing on. I'm going to keep calling this taxpayer money because it's tax. It's a surcharge on a taxes. Do we have that amount. Do we know how much that is on mangano has raised his hand to answer that question. So our financial advisor did model the debt for this project or for this portion of the project. And so he modeled it using a 10 year repayment schedule. And I think the debt payments ranged around 110,000 per year I fluctuated based on the way he structured the debt. But it was between like 107 I think I may have got as high as 115 in a given year. I don't want to say the exact schedule to take me a little bit to find it, but I could bring it up if it's people want to see the specific schedule. That that's enough for me. Thank you. Right. Are there other questions on this motion. Okay, then seeing no other questions we're going to move to a vote. I start with Pat D'Angelo's. Hi. Darcy demand. No. I mean, Griezmer is an eye. Mandy Johanna key. Hi. Dorothy Pam. Hi. Evan Ross. Hi. George Ryan. Yes. That's a chain. No. Schreiber. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Yes. Sarah Schwartz. No. No. Shalini Balmoum. Yes. Alyssa Brewer. Hi. Motion passes 10. For three against no abstentions. And no absence. So the motion passes. It did require a two thirds vote. Okay. So the motion is in accordance with Charter section 5.6. Having been published on the town bulletin board. For a minimum of 10 days on March. 25th, 2021. A public forum held on April 5th, 2021. And having been reviewed by the finance. Council. The adopted council order FY 21 dash. Zero six C. An order approving and authorizing, borrowing the fund, the expansion and restoration. Of the Jones library. Bond authorizations as presented. Is there a second. Second. Okay. Is there are there questions. It's, it's a question, but I also think for the benefit of the public, they should know what the content of the financial order is. And so one of the things I wanted to raise in my comments is that we are being asked. There is a grant of 30, the total project is 36.3 million. And the library has said it will raise. An amount of that will help. Shrink the gap between that and the grant. And that the town will then pay 15.75 million, but we're being asked to take on the full debt, the full difference, because the library has not raised that amount of money. So that this is in fact a pretty, in my opinion, a high financial risk. But we're going to have to take the budget to the next level. So we have to take that. And that's where it's more in the neighborhood of 20, 22 million. That the town will be taking on. And then part of it will be an interest free loan that will be repaid. By the trustees. When they, if they can get the pledges. So we have to hope that that will happen. And we have a memorandum of understanding. And I think that we have to, I think we have to take the budget to the next level. And we really have this secured the library is not putting up money. So that's the financial order. Also portrays what I think. What is always concerned me, I love the library and I want it to be renovated. I think it needs repairs. But I think we're at high cost risk. And no matter how many questions I've asked, I still have uncertainty that we will actually keep our share. Of the budget. That's a lot more. That's a lot more than $1.8 million. It's a lot more. Two and a half million dollars more than the repair estimate, but it could be still more if we don't get that paid back. So I just. Lynn, the way it's worded, it's just, it's a financial order, but the financial order lays out what the town is committing to in terms of bond. I'm going to, for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to go ahead and leave it at the end of the screen. And then I'm going to ask the father comment. If other counselors have comments. They would like to make. Manjo Haneky. Thank you. It's the first time we've really had to have a chance to comment on this whole project. So I wanted to say a century ago, Jones library trustees had a vision of a library. It would be more than just a warehouse for books. The building would look and feel like a home. It would be a building for community. It would be a building for community. It would be a building for community. It would be a building to learn not just from books, but from each other. The building would welcome performers and speakers. It would not be just a building for learning, but it would be a building for community. And 95 years later, that vision is still alive. It's a place where our residents go to learn to relax, to socialize, and to become part of our community. It is our living room, our office, our library and our entertainment space. It's a place where a parent and a child new to town can meet other families. A place where a resident who has no home can spend a day out of the heat or cold. It's a place where people can be less lonely and socialized with others. It's a place where a student can study without distraction or where teens can work on group projects without the worry of being judged by the size or condition of their own homes. It's a place where someone without a computer or broadband at home can search for and apply for a job. And it's a place to enrich ourselves culturally without needing to spend money. The Jones is a second home for all of us. And a hundred years on that home needs to be upgraded and expanded to be able to carry out these needs for the next 50 years. Our job as counselors is to serve the residents, a large majority of whom based on past trustee elections and statements to us support this project. It is also our job to vote in accordance with our policy goals. This year's performance goals and objectives for the town manager include six goals that directly relate to this vote. We told the manager we would evaluate his job performance based on making forward progress on these areas. We ourselves must also act to show we are serious about these goals. A yes vote helps us meet the climate action goals we adopted in 2019 by getting rid of the fossil fuel heating system and dramatically improving the energy efficiency in one of our largest public buildings. A yes vote helps our future economic health and well-being by bringing more visitors to town. A yes vote addresses social justice in our society by providing sufficient space for programs that serve the less privileged among us, those that have no home, those that don't speak English, those that don't have a computer broadband at home, and those that have trouble navigating stairs and other impediments. A yes vote is financially prudent with an eye to the long term. Given the nearly identical costs the town would incur to repair the building with a fossil fuel heating system and little improvement in energy efficiency. A yes vote ensures that the building will serve our residents over the next 50 years. While spending nearly the same money just on repairs does not. As a council we cannot expect the manager to follow our goals if we ourselves do not. The time is now to walk the walk not just talk the talk. I urge my fellow councillors to vote yes and I will proudly and enthusiastically vote yes. Thank you, Mary Jo. Darcy Dumont. I very much respect the amount of time and work that's been put into this project by so many people committed to the Jones. A library that we all love. Despite that I have many concerns about the proposal for the expansion renovation project. The fact that our own finance committee didn't make an affirmative recommendation. own finance committee didn't make an affirmative recommendation was concerning to me. These are my main concerns. First, I believe that the town needs to look at the full picture of our capital and operating budget needs for the next decade and to get input from the residents. Let's look at our critical needs first. For many in town, the library is the lowest priority of the building plans after public safety, public work, and schools. And those are just the buildings. That doesn't take into account all of our other capital needs. To me, the library expansion is not a need, it's a want. I'm afraid that a vote to fund this major project will convince folks to vote against the school project when the school override vote comes up. In addition to not looking at the full picture of our standard needs, we need to be factoring in our new goals of racial equity and climate action. The proposed climate action and resilience plan is slated to come before the council in just a few weeks and will include plans for what we need to do to cut emissions by 25% by 2025. There will be short and long term initiatives that may take priority over other existing spending plans. We should not be committing to a major expenditure before knowing what is being proposed in that plan. Secondly, the library sustainability committee, as great as it was, I very much respect all the people on the committee, didn't look at, wasn't asked to look at emissions for what I believe is the most climate friendly option, renovating and retrofitting the existing building to make it more energy efficient, using renewably sourced energy. It only looked at how to make the expansion project sustainable and not providing a comparison to this option is really hard to get past. Also, comparing the projected emissions of the expansion project to leaving the building as is is not helpful. On leaving the building as is is not one of the options that was on the table. And assuming that the emissions of the as is model would remain the same over a 60 year period is simply not correct because it would need to be retrofitted to take it off fossil fuels under any new climate action plan. And it would be using renewably sourced community choice energy. Additionally, I agree with the suggestions that we should try to design any library expansion or any municipal building so that it also gives our town a climate resilience hub which would provide power during power outages and other climate emergencies and a heating and cooling center for vulnerable residents. Northampton is planning its first such resilience hub. Lastly, I see the need to preserve more money in the operating budget. Our wonderful staff is way too stretched. Many positions needed to make us the town that we could be are not being filled. I'm also quite concerned that funding the project would impact the operating budgets and services of the other branch libraries. In the era of two global emergencies, the climate crisis and the pandemic, we need to be planning for new priorities and how we can best provide the basics of for our residents in the era of the new normal. Our overall priority should determine our way forward, not the existence of grant money. Thank you, Darcy. Evan Ross, and I just want to point out we are limiting people to their three minutes. Evan? Yes, thank you. So I'm going to speak tonight in support of the project as proposed because I do believe that it represents progress for our community on a number of fronts, but specifically I'm going to echo some of the statements about how it aligns with our values of sustainability and social justice. So back in November 2019, we passed pretty ambitious climate goals that I'm proud of and the Andrian Climate Action Committee is in the progress of developing a climate action plan. But climate action goals and a climate action plan are only valuable if they're followed by action. So approving this project would be the most significant action that this council, this sitting council, will take on climate. The project will make our library net zero ready, eliminate on-site fossil fuels, and dramatically decrease energy use. And when, and I mean when, not if, when we decarbonize our electric grid, our library will be able to serve our community without emitting carbon into our atmosphere. And to me, this project helps us take a tangible step towards our climate action goals and sends a strong message to our community that we are serious about achieving those goals, whereas forfeiting this opportunity now will only make it more difficult down the road to achieve those attempted goals. I've also said that I believe that the library project is the biggest social justice project facing our council and I do believe that. We've heard in some emails and in forums that quote, the library works fine for me or quote, I like the library the way it is. And for many, I'm sure that's true. For me, a native English speaker who is able bodied, who has a computer at home and who uses the library primarily to check out books, especially quite a bit during COVID, the library does work just fine as is for me. But for so many in our community, the library is not working. For folks using it to access technology, for folks using it to learn English or prepare for a citizenship test, for folks who have physical disabilities and mobility impairments, the library does not work. So if you are someone who says the library works fine as is, if you're someone who sees this project as a want and not a need, consider that that is in part because of your privilege and that maybe this project isn't for you. It might be time right now for us to check our privilege and to consider that for many, the library as is is not working. And if we are committed to social justice for our low income population, for our immigrant population, our disabled populations, we should support this project. And I'm voting yes for those populations, not for people like me for whom the library already works. And we can do this project and work towards those climate action goals and social justice goals for a cost that is on par with doing basic repairs. We can do it without an override and without raising taxes. We can do it by taking advantage of state funds and significant fundraising, including nearly $1.2 million already committed before a project has even been approved. Think of how much more can be raised after our vote tonight. Those state funds and fundraising dollars are not available if we turn this project down. So to me a yes vote is the fiscally prudent vote. I know that the project might not be perfect, maybe you think it's too big or you don't like the shape of the roof or where the teen room is, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of progress. So I'm urging all of my fellow counselors to vote yes on this project. Thank you. Thank you, Evan. Dorothy Pam. Thank you. I have two types of comments, the practical and the emotional. Okay, we have talked about this library for a long time and I certainly have been amongst those who have questioned many, many of the assumptions, the plans, the design, the financing and I feel very proud of the work that many people on this council have done in making us come up with a better plan or helping us to encourage changes in design and I think that we've come to a place now where it's prudent to go forward. We have many things that we have to think about, but at the moment I think the emotional fact is more important to me. We're just coming off Knock on Wood from an incredible year. I lost two birthdays, a year of staying inside, of seeing no one, of not even seeing my grandchildren for months on end and the town, when you drive out your cotton town, there's nobody on the streets. It's quiet as can be. So we are hoping to come together as a civil, social, intellectual, political body again and the library is going to be, I think, the place where we're going to do it. I am hoping, positively looking forward to the new reading room on the second floor that's going to have these little skylights. I think it's going to be a place that we want to be. We're going to have the teen room that we've asked for and we heard last meeting that the Civil War Stones tablets will be placed in the ground floor meeting room, which will be a very meaningful thing. So we have this library. It's right in the heart of downtown and we're hoping for a reawakening of our town, of our society and at this moment, having gone through the budgets and talked all the time, at some point you just have to take things on faith and I'm going to make the leap of faith and trust that the work and the numbers that we have been shown are accurate and that we'll be able to do it and I will also hold the Board of Trustees to their promise that if they have cost overruns, they will not come back to the town, that they will go and do additional fundraising. I think that's a very important thing and a very important matter that was brought up, but that we can come together once again at the library and be together in Amherst. So that is my hope. Thank you. Thank you, Dorothy. Andy. So I wanted to, I guess, respond to a couple things that were said and just generally speak about both in favor of this motion. One comment was made that the Finance Committee did not make recommendation. Something should be read into that and I want to make it clear that that is absolutely not the case. We were asked not to make a recommendation because we were looking at this as a Finance Committee certification on financial information and an investigation of financial information, but the decision belonged to the Council so that the motion that we passed within the Committee, the Finance Committee, was very specific and said the Finance Committee finds that the information provided in this document, and this was referring to the long document, is a reasonable projection of the costs and funding plan for the renovation expansion plan and the repair alternatives and recommends that the Council rely on this information. So going on to then my own personal assessment of this, I served on the Joint Capital Planning Committee for a number of years when we recognized that there were significant repair needs for the library and a deliberate decision was made to not do the repairs because of that we would have an opportunity to do them in the future when we made a decision that we're making tonight. The reality is that the repair costs are going to be pretty much the same as the costs that the Town will ultimately have to bear. And finally, knowing that I'm running out of time, I also want to respond to an assertion that was made earlier that we are taking on a huge risk. I don't think that we are taking on a huge risk. I think the memorandum of understanding provides substantial security. It has been carefully drafted to achieve that result. And I've been very impressed that the fundraising has already raised well over a million dollars in donations, and that there are a number of people who've indicated that based upon the vote tonight, if it is favorable, that they will make donations. So there's a lot of money yet to come in. I recommend, I am very strongly supportive of this motion. Thank you, Andy. Pat D'Angeloz. Many of you in the community and on the council have talked with me about your objections to the project. And I acknowledge that voting yes is taking risks. Will the trustees meet their fundraising goal? Will project costs be held in check? Will we retain our commitment to sustainability if we face burgeoning costs? Will the project keep us from completing the other capital projects, the firehouse, the DPW, the school project, and renovation of Cracker Farm? But not doing this project takes risks also. Peace meal repairs that will cost almost as much as the renovation expansion, losing state funding and losing credibility with state funders, ongoing impacts to English language learners, low income residents, and limited space for community gatherings, which in the past have included use by members of the Muslim community, workshops on anti-racism, book groups, political meetings, and the usual contentious community meetings. And in the end, I come down on the risks of saying yes. Thank you. Thank you, Pat. Steve Schreiber. My colleagues have really said much better what I'm going to say, but we've heard a lot about how from the public that they think that we should be prioritizing public safety schools and infrastructure. And I can't think of a project in our community that exemplifies all three of those. So libraries are all about education. And more so, it's about education of everyone. Libraries are the most democratic buildings, town commons also democratic, but libraries are literally the most democratic institution invented in this country. Proud that Massachusetts was a pioneer in this, proud that Amherst had the foresight to invest in a public library 100 years ago. Public safety, we've heard a lot about how education and public safety are linked to each other. So the more education, the less need for policing. And so much about this library is about exactly that finding a safe place for members of our community to become engaged with the community. And then infrastructure. So we can define infrastructure the way the Biden administration is, which is pretty much everything, or we can think specifically about things like computers. So we got emails from longtime residents of Amherst about how the public library was the first place where they could access the internet. So we don't know what the next infrastructure developments that will happen in the future, but we expect that they'll come through the public library. So in my remaining minute, I just want to make another, I want to make a, there's been a lot of discussion about the tenant, the greenest building is a one that's already built. There's another tenant, which is called cash for clunkers. So cash for clunkers is a real thing that, and in fact, one of our fellow counselors implored the entire town council a year ago, I went back and look at the email, but she implored all of us to get rid of our gas using vehicles and trade those in for electric vehicles. And as part of that messaging was the fact that the state and federal government had a discount. So basically there was an incentive for us to get our gas guzzlers off the street. So, you know, quite frankly, I see this as a cash for clunkers on steroids. It's something that serves the entire community. It's all about the social capital as opposed to electric vehicles, or which are all about the individual. So I strongly support this project. Thank you, Steve. Sarah Schwartz. So the library is incredibly important to me. Pre-pandemic, I had visited the library with my children at least five times a week. Four years ago, when my family met poverty standards, I still served the library as many ways as I could, including doing storytime and taking toys and puppets home to clean them on my own time and bring them back to the library. There's been a lot of talk about equality tonight. I have to ask everyone in this room who's out speeding, who is either a town employee or who represents the town as an elected officer, how many of us have missed a paycheck since March 16th, 2019, which was the beginning of the pandemic. I would wager not too many of us. I guess I'm going to go out of this council speaking for the middle class, which I don't think anybody has addressed. We've heard from people that there are young, rich families who would like to settle here and they can pay these taxes, and this is what they want. We all know that the library is the most democratic place, and I think it's incredibly important, and we know that it serves people who are poverty level. I come from a district where there's a lot of working class people, and people who have told me that they cannot hang out for much longer with the increasing, we just increased sewer, we just increased water. That's going to be like another $136 for people, people who are working, people who are on a fixed income. Not everybody's fixed income is real high, so for me, we're looking at these projects, and I have to say it seems like we're taking a very expensive one first. People mentioned the school because we've been in a position where we were told we have to do the school the way the school needs to be, and then we're telling DPW and FIRE, well, you haven't gotten anything for 100 years, not sure we can do it now. If I'm concerned, I'm concerned about people being able to stay in town, and I do not believe that middle class people in five years will be able to, and I'm going to vote against the project as much as I love the library, and hopefully those of us who will have to leave town will be somewhere in the CWMR's area so that we could visit the new library. Thank you, Sarah. George? As I was thinking what I wanted to say tonight, I knew that many of my colleagues would hit the major points, and they have. I was thinking more historically, I guess. It's been almost 100 years. It was in the second decade of the 20th century that Samuel Monod Jones presented Amherst with his extraordinary gift, a gift that has become, as we noted many times tonight, one of the jewels of our town. This evening, we have the opportunity to enhance that gift and to pass it on to the generations that will come after us. This proposal will restore and expand, as Steve and Sarah have noted, our most democratic space and ensure its ability to fulfill its multifaceted and vital mission well into the 21st century. A library today is so much more than a place to house books. It's a key community resource that serves us in so many ways. Much like the Amherst of Samuel Monod Jones' day, we too are emerging from a global pandemic. Like them, we need now more than ever, as Dorothy suggested, to believe in the future and the possibilities of our town. We can't be afraid. We need to provide those who will come after us with the tools they will need to ensure that this town continues to prosper and flourish. Like Samuel Monod Jones, now is the time for vision and for courage. And Sarah, we do have a financial plan that allows us to undertake three of the four major capital projects without recourse to a debt exclusion. A financial plan will allow us to fund them through the capital budget without increasing our taxes. This proposal is fiscally responsible and it represents all that is the best of our town. What we need tonight is courage in vision to do the right thing. Thank you, George. Shallani? Yeah, I think a lot of things have been said and there are two things that I want to add to the conversation. One is something that Todd Holland, who's an engineer, stated earlier that most of the arguing can lead to inaction and inaction is the only wrong move today. The other thing that's really important is something that Sarah is talking about and we're hearing from a lot of residents is the high property taxes and the burden this would put. And as George just mentioned, that we have a plan and yes, it could go off, but we do have one plan. And the other part is the library is part of that vision. It's part of the solution. It is not going to increase our property taxes. We need to have, we need to solve for that problem of high property taxes but not by saying no to the library. On the country, we need to think about how can we revitalize the economy, how can we draw more people and the right kind of development, not moratoriums, but the right kind of development. We could be losing $800,000 by stopping any kind of development. I know this is not about the moratorium. It's about the library. But my point is that we are saying no to the library for property taxes is one of the reasons and that they're not related. And we do need to think about that and we should be and I believe the library is going to add to the economic vitality. And there is the concept of social infrastructure which someone shared with us, one of the residents shared with us and the importance of investing in social infrastructure which is the glue that binds a community together especially in a time of divisiveness especially when there's so little hope and people are just so broken down. We need this hope. We need this new building to come and be right there to bring all of us together from different walks of life. And so I think I am fully in support of this and I also want to mention that as of today the library without even us passing the vote has raised $2,000,000 and $188,000. Of course that includes $1,000,000 from CPA. But I am confident. I believe in the residents of Amherst that they will, we will raise and the more we raise the money together the more we are investing in our own town. And it's again another reason that we are together proud of our town. So I'm going to vote for it. Thank you, Shalini. I'm going to use my privilege as a counselor. And while this may come as a surprise to many of you, I began the process of reviewing the Jones Library proposal to the Mass Board of Library Commissioners as a skeptic. However, after two years of helping to manage the process of bringing this vote to the Town Council, I have become supportive of accepting the MBLC grant, allowing the Jones Library to do a much needed renovation and expansion. I want to thank the library trustees, the director, the staff, and the various consultants for working through the many questions that have been asked and the hours that have been spent providing the answers to those questions. In addition to that, the trustees have modified their plan to include significant sustainability measures, though they're not even subject to the net zero energy bylaw. But I must say, and I want you to make sure you hear this message loud and clear, let me state it without equivocation, that as long as I have anything to say about it, there will be no more money than what we're voting tonight. This is all you get. And we will not favor you in future operating budgets. The Town will not allow cost overruns. Others have spoken eloquently to the benefits of a public library, and specifically our public library. So I'm not going to mimic their words, but I will state that it does address five of our six policy goals. And one could even argue that for the homeless and those who live and those who live in very small home quarters, it actually provides somewhat of a home. So finally I'm going to add because this has constantly come up. As many of you are aware, I've had significant involvement in looking at a future fire station and a DPW. And during the winter of 2018, before the town council even existed, I worked with seven other individuals to propose a revised net zero energy bylaw, which passed town meeting with only two negative votes. So for me, one of the key issues is feeling strongly that we have a sound financial plan, not risk sound, that will allow us to build a new elementary school. And even with present limitations on spending, build a new fire and EMS station south of Amherst and place DPW in a seriously upgraded building and implement the zero energy bylaw. These investments are long overdue, and the time to do them is now. So for me, this is part of investing, not just in our downtown, but in our town's entire future. Are there any other comments? Thank you. As I was hoping, pretty much everybody covered everything I could possibly think of. So thank you all for all your great thoughts associated with this. I just wanted to say two things. One is actually a direct quote from one of the many emails we received, which I thought summarized things extremely well from my perspective, which was that to refuse state funds in favor of a patchwork piecemeal and partial renovation makes no sense from a financial, environmental, educational or social justice perspective. And I just want to add one other thing about the financial risk, which I do not believe exists here either. We are not expecting friends of the elementary school, friends of the DPW, or friends of the fire station to raise a single penny toward any of those facilities. Yet the Friends of the Jones Library has made a large commitment, has already seen quite a bit of results with that commitment, even without our vote. And I truly do believe in our community supporting that for all the reasons everyone else has expressed. Thank you. Are there any other comments? Then we are going to take the vote. And we're going to begin with Patty Angeles. Hi. Darcy DeMond. No. Lynn Griezmer is I. Mandy Jo Hanneke. I. Dorothy Pam. Yes. Evan Ross. I. George Ryan. Yes. Kathy Shane. Epstein. Steve Schreiber. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Yes. Sarah Schwartz. No. Galenie Balmille. Yes. Alyssa Brewer. Yes. I. The vote is 10 in favor to oppose one extension, no absent. Thank you. We have one more vote. And that is to authorize the town manager to enter into the memorandum of agreement by and between the town of Amherst and the Jones Library Incorporated, acting by and through its trustees, whereby the Jones Library Incorporated agrees that it will exercise good faith and diligent efforts to raise the balance of the library share of 5,656,576 dollars through grants, gifts, donations, and other fundraising efforts and deposit those funds with the town of Amherst in accordance with the memorandum of agreement. Is there a second? Ryan, second. Thank you. Any further discussion or questions? Kathy Shane. Yeah, I raised a couple of concerns about the memorandum of understanding, and so I just wanted, during the finance meeting meeting, and it's mainly on, I think there are ways it could be stronger. And the rest, as Andy wrote in the report, the rest of the committee did not agree with me. They thought it was strong enough. But one of the issues in paragraph seven of the rights and remedies is I think it would be possible to put a share of the endowment in an escrow account as good faith money so that the language that says we can compel the library if needed to give us a share, we have an earmark share, and I know you would have to set up an ownership agreement, partial ownership agreement, and it's not to liquidate it. So I think having some collateral actually have some good faith money up front would be good. And then the second is on the deed restriction. When I suggested that the deed restriction be in perpetuity, I was told that maybe the library won't be there in the future. We might want to move it after 30 years. We've been told this is a 50-year investment, so I think we could make the deed restriction for 50 years, but at least make the town a party if there's a discussion about moving the library or liquidating it or selling it that we get a return. This is not, we don't own the building. So I think make the deed restriction stronger as well. Those two pieces. Are there any further comments from Councilor Dorothy Pam? I don't think putting a share of the endowment in an escrow account would be a wise way to go. I believe that when we discussed deed restriction, there were several options. There was the in perpetuity. I think there was 30 years, there was 50 years. I don't see, I personally have no problem in putting a time limit of 30 or 50 years if you think that that gives the town a stronger role in making such decisions. I don't think it's necessary, but I don't think it would be hurtful. So that is my comment. The language in the agreement says initially 30 years, initially 30 years. The other thing is the reason 30 years was chosen is because we looked at various options. One is MBLC requires 20 years. The loan that we've been talking about has been discussed at 20 years and the CPA requires 30 years. We chose the furthest out and that led us to the initially 30 years. Darcy? Just a question. It appears to me that there's nothing in the MOU that would prevent the library from coming back and making another capital request or going to seek more funding from CPAC. Is that correct? They may not seek after tonight. Once we have passed this bond bill, neither we nor the library can seek money from CPA for the library project because that is at that point considered supplanting. So the answer is no, they cannot. But they could come back and ask for put a capital request in. They can ask for any number of things, whether we give it to them or not is another issue. They, you know, just like everybody else, they will continue to have capital requests as part of the Joint Capital Planning Committee work, but that's not considered part of the issue here. That's true of any operation. They can always ask. Is there any other questions about the MOU? Just on they can't come back to CPAC for this project. Could they come back to say we want to do the exterior of the building? It hasn't been pointed up or would it be that still be this project? They have to be extremely clear that it was not part of this project to begin with or at any renovation along the way. And even then, I think we'd have to get a serious reading from CPA. Our understanding is once this project is bonded, they cannot come back to CPA because that is considered supplanting. That's the read we got from the attorney. Are there any other questions? All right, then I'm going to begin with Darcy DeMond. Griezmann is a yes. Anneke. Hi. Darcy Pam. Hi. Evan Ross. Hi. George Ryan. Yes. Kathy Shane. Yes, with trepidation. Steve Schreiber. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Yes. Sarah Schwartz. No. Stanley Ball-Milm. Yes. Elizabeth Brewer. Hi. Pat DeAngelis. Hi. The vote is 11-4-2 opposed. No abstentions and nobody absent. All right. I'm going to ask that we do at least one more item and then we will make a decision as to whether or not we're going to go on with the last two items under action. The next item is an amendment to the town manager's public safety goal. And it sounds ominous, but instead of going there, I'm just going to ask Paul to speak real quickly. Thank you, Lynn. So the community safety working group continues its work. The deadline for their work that we had to establish previously was March 31st. They've now requested, now that they have a consultant on board, additional time to work with the consultant and may be able to deliver a report to me, which also obviously will be shared with the council. The consultant's schedule to deliver the report at the end of April. The working group would like a couple extra weeks to finalize their report. Just so you know, like how does this fit in with the whole budget process, which has been a high priority. I'm going to every meeting of the working group, I know where they stand. They're working simultaneously with the consultant. So I think I have a pretty good sense of where they're headed on these things. So they fully understand the deadline of when I have to submit material to the town council. So they're fully cognizant of that. This just brings their, the council goal and alignment so they're not, they're not going to be six weeks behind on their meeting, their council goal. Okay. Dorothy? Paul, I was shocked when I read the amount of the contract with the consultant. Can you tell me why it's so expensive and what the committee and the town is getting from that? Yes. So the committee put together a bid request. We used the invitation for bid and IFB process, which is much, which goes faster than an RFP. And if you choose the low bidder, and so this was the low bidder on the project. And the amount of work that was being requested, the amount of community outreach, which is very extensive, that's being requested, is all very intense work in a relatively short period of time. So I think that might have driven the value of this. Okay. Thank you. And then just so you know, there were three bidders on this one higher one and one that was significantly lower and just did not know and felt like that would actually accomplish the project. How many people are, is the consultant, is it one person or a bunch of people? It's a group. Yeah. The group. Okay. I'm going to take another question too, but actually what I'd like to do is stop by putting a motion on the floor and that's to amend the town council performance goals for the town manager July 1st, 2020 to June 30th, 2020 adopted September 14th, 2020 by changing under policy goals, section two, community health and safety. The date results are presented to the town council from March 30th, 2021 to May 15th, 2021. And to amend the July 20 2020 council directive previously adopted that the parouville of the FY 2021 operating budget is made with this explicit understanding with the town manager that two upcoming anticipated vacant positions in the de police department budget not be filed, build until the town manager in consultation with the town council and residents of Amherst has fully explored alternative options of providing services and presented the results to the town clown town no later than March 31st, 2021. And it would now read to approve the FY 2021 operating budget is made with the explicit understanding with the town manager that two upcoming anticipated vacant positions of the police department's budget not be filled until the town manager in consultation with the town council and the residents of Amherst has fully explored alternative options of providing services and presenting the results to the town council no later than May 15th, 2021. Is there a second? Thank you. And let me just say the only thing that long motion does is change the date. It sounds like it changed a lot more but it just changes the date. Kathy. I have you answered one of the questions Lynn by the motion that we pushed off what to do about the two frozen positions and unfilled positions are still unfilled. So my question is about timing. You have to get the budget to us by May 1st. You're not coming with a recommendation out of all of this until May 15th which is after May 1st. And we just heard a discussion earlier tonight on the regional school whether that is there any possibility of saying part of one of those police positions becomes money in the school budget which that decision would have to be made in the context of the school budget and the larger budget. So I just and then by the charter we can cut but we can't move money around. So the when can finance or the council have a conversation that will be meaningful about all of this. If we if you're not going to get a recommendation to the middle of May but we're getting a budget on May 1st and we've got issues on does that position become a mental health position? Could it be something in the school? You know I think you understand my question the timing. I don't understand. Yeah I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear. What they're requested they will make their decision before I have to submit my budget. They're asking for a couple weeks to prepare the final report and the written report so they can spend some time gathering the documents putting together the actual report. So what they will have to make they have to make a decision before I submit my budget in April. So that the substantive matter will be done but the actual putting together the you know writing the final things writing the for the cover member all that stuff they would like a couple little extra couple extra weeks. I mean for this committee they're meeting weekly they're very diligent everyone is showing up at every meeting so they recognize how much work they have to do in the next six weeks just to just to get to a final report. So just to answer so the the substance substance of the matter has to be done prior to May 1st because I would like to incorporate the guidance that they're giving me or at least respond to it in the budget that I present to you. Kathy did you have a further question? I think that answers it but you know we are getting individual there probably others questions about you know when when is making a statement so you heard the high school students weigh in earlier this evening so Paul you'll have an answer with the committee that will be incorporated in your budget is what I think you're saying and then we will know about it as a council on May 1st. Right so you know I'm not saying I'm going to incorporate everything the committee the working group recommends I'm saying they're going to give me their recommendation and I'll have something in the budget that addresses this I mean we're anticipating that already. Okay. Okay. Alyssa. So yeah so following up on that so if I'm understanding that correctly you know and and we do we understand all the words that you've been saying here but we won't have the justification for the decisions you make for the document from May 1st because we're not going to all the community safety working group meetings and we won't have their report and we won't have heard all their discussions so we won't get those until two weeks after we've received what what recommendations you may have incorporated into the budget so you'll just have extra text to write and won't be able to say go look at their report because you won't have it yet but you'll still be able to explain why you're doing what you're doing as you do every year with the budget it's just it's unfortunate but it's it can be compensated for by other text in the budget so that's something then we'll know that and we'll just have to think about as everything's all connected of course it's not all siloed is that we can focus on some other parts of the budget potentially in our discussions and then as we get closer to the time that that report's available then we'll be able to make more sense of all of it and as you say it may well be that you don't actually incorporate everything in this particular year's budget and then we'll have a lot of questions about why that may or may not be the case specifically on the you know it feels kind of funny to still be fixing something we did last July and like updating something in the past when it's almost a year later now but when we talk about filling the vacant positions I believe that the words we keep using here now that we're further along do actually mean that technically you could fill those two positions on May 16th I don't want you to do that so so how is it that we that we are clear in our minutes I just want to put something in our minutes I don't have to change the motion but I want to put something in the minutes that you either commit or don't commit to not filling those positions on May 16th because as Kathy said we won't have had the conversations we had imagined we might be able to have prior to them yeah you can add to the minutes so we will not be adding those positions May 16th already or any time soon thereafter it takes a long it's a long process to go through a hiring process we have not initiated the hiring process at all so we're not sitting there waiting with the engines idling nothing has has begun on any of that on that hiring process for those two positions so in that you know from your career prior experience at that that's a month's long process of a word to begin thank you um Mandy job thank you so I've heard the word you've said Paul about um going to the meetings knowing that they have a deadline of May 1 or sometime before that so you can get it into the budget on May 1 but you have to submit a budget on May 1 even if they don't happen to quite be done May before that to get you to the budget um and and I don't know how confident we are that that that will that part will be ready even if the report isn't so I guess what I'm asking for is I believe there's state law language I know people have mentioned we can't raise a budget ourselves we can't raise numbers ourselves um we can only reduce but I think there's state law language that says something about um in agreement with the manager um about some stuff like that and so I guess I would ask for a not necessarily a commitment but a recognition that if for some reason the community safety working group just is not ready in order in time for you to be able to submit your budget on time on May 1 to be able to get their recommendations or whichever of their recommendations you're intending to put in your budget by May 1 when you submit it that you're willing to re look at and consider sort of that that that one provision in state law that allows us to raise that budget with your consent based on some of that um so so that we're not stuck with something that we just can't go back and do yeah no so that that's true um I mean a budget isn't just one line item it's a it's a it's a it's the entire budget with the library and the in the schools all put together as a package and so all those things fit together very we have to have that be balanced when I give that to you so you know the council can certainly provide feedback and and obviously any feedback that the council provides I'll give the most serious consideration but it's important to recognize that it's a bigger budget issue um not just one line item um you know I think you know the council has articulated its um goals um and so I'm trying to build the budget around the goals that the council has articulated um so um you know yes obviously I worked for you and we have this conversation okay are there any other questions on this okay then uh we're going to vote on the motion that's been made and seconded we're going to start with Greece we're in I vote I uh Mandy Jo Hanneke I Dorothy Pam I Evan Ross I George Ryan yes Kathy Shane yes Steve Schreiber yes Indy Steinberg yes Kara Schwartz hi Melanie Balneum yes Alyssa Brewer hi Patty Angelis hi Garcy Dumont yes passes unanimously 13-0-0-0 all right there's no good solution here we have two other agenda items on the action side we don't do them tonight we do them next week next week's agenda doesn't look a whole lot better but I'm looking to see what I can eliminate from it um so um I would like to um at least see if we can discuss the zoning bylaw 10.2 related to associate members of the planning board I wrote you a memo on this basically I outlined two options I mean three options in that memo one is to ask CRC to name or to recommend names of residents to be associate members for the planning board a second is to change the bylaw and get rid of the language that allows for associate members and the third is don't change the bylaw and don't ask CRC to forward uh recommended names of residents to be appointed to the planning board the reason this comes up is because every time we get to the planning board uh appointments somebody raises gee could we have some associates well guess what we're getting ready to have planning board appointments again and in discussion with the chair of CRC it was decided that we should have this discussion before it comes to the council for the planning board appointments so the floor is open about whether we want associates or don't want associates etc. Dorothy I would suggest that we do not want to have associates and that all members of the planning board should be equal okay Pat we haven't had associate members on the planning board since I think 2000 or 2001 um I don't think they're particularly necessary but I also like the idea that if uh at any point the planning board began to think they were necessary we wouldn't have to go through this process again so I think we should just leave things alone and not appoint anybody unless the planning board wants them appointed. Kevin Ross. Yep I just wanted to add to this discussion not only have we not had associates to the planning board even though technically there's a provision in our bylaw that allows it um there's never been any expression by the planning board that they feel that they would benefit from associate members or that they need them there's really only been one time that I can think of where possibly an associate would have been useful but that was because we as counselors needed to get our butts and gear and fill some vacancies which we then did um pretty quickly um and I also want to mention that this did come up um briefly for discussion in a CRC meeting and Director Planning Chris Brestra indicated that she did not feel as though the planning board needed associate members and so I think there's um I don't think that we should be appointing associate members um because it seems like the only people who ever feel like they are necessary are counselors in the midst of an appointment um specifically when they feel as though their preferred candidate is not being recommended to appointment um that's the only time it's been brought up um and by by different people um and so they don't seem necessary I don't know if I agree with Pat that we should leave the option in but not fill them or if we should say you know we don't no one seems to think we need unless just get rid of them I'm sort of agnostic on that um but I'm not agnostic in thinking that I don't think that we should be moving to fill those positions at least not now thank you Melanie I would put this to this question to the planning board and see I did hear from one planning board member not naming that um they felt that you know it is it takes a while to understand zoning and all the issues in planning board and to have somebody so sometimes we lose experienced people and you bring in new people and so the idea was that what is going to strengthen the planning board and if it means we hold on to people who are experienced and bring in a new person we don't want to lose the new person because that new person has amazing skills also that that would be a way that we can bring in new people and have them in integrated but that's just I still feel the question I would be interested in hearing and yes Chris did say that she didn't feel there was a need but I would still like to hear from the planning board if indeed that is something that would be useful helpful to them and yeah that's my position Mandy Jo in any of your conversations with the planning board have you had that conversation um no um because this was as you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation this was something that was brought to my attention by a committee member at CRC and I brought it to yours at the next agenda setting to be discussed and it's on here so I have not um that I guess that would be a fourth option would be to refer the question of or essentially ask the planning board whether they would like us to recommend associate appointments okay that's absolutely not a fourth option Kathy um I think what Pat said I agree with um my feeling is leave don't change the bylaw leave it as an option and as shallony was saying the potential is there that it might be useful even if it's not necessarily from the planning staff's point of view I heard from at least one resident who said they'd be interested in being on the planning board but not going on as a full member they'd want to be an understudy for a while so that they had time to watch it in action and learn from it and that's what has been done with ZPA so just because we haven't used it doesn't mean we might never want to use this so I'm not saying do it this year but I think leave in the option open that um it could be useful if you um and you know so this person really did say I would I would apply if there was an associate member option I'm not going to apply if it's a full member option because I don't want to hit the ground without a year of of listening watching so so having heard that I thought there is a potential value even if we are not planning on doing it this year uh Darcy here you go um yeah I uh I uh think that we really I personally want to see all the options available if there are folks willing and able to serve as associate members um um that seems like a big a good possibility to be able to let them start to get experience um so I know we haven't done it in the past um but I don't see why we would want to cut off that possibility um even though we haven't used that option and it it makes me feel uncomfortable that we are um discussing this now when we we uh you know know some of the applicants for the current planning board openings um just feels kind of uncomfortable uh to be talking about um Steve Schreiber yeah so I don't know any of the applicants for the planning board so I feel like I'm missing something but um the there's a nuance here which is associated by mass general uh associate members of the planning board can only be impaneled for special permit hearings as I understood first special permit cases the planning board really doesn't deal with special permits or they only deal with special permits when they're in association with site plan review so if more specifically there is something called special permit planning SPP but it's actually very rarely used but most of the special permits are always in association with site plan review so in a way it doesn't make any sense because it can't they're heard at the same time so you can't be an associate for part of the hearing and not for the other part the other nuance is that the state their commonwealth has made it much easier for planning board members who cannot physically be in the room or physically be in zoom for for hearings to participate so there's both a mull and rule which allows you to miss a meeting and therefore you're allowed to miss a meeting make up by watching the video and or you can participate remotely which are these are things that happened over the last I don't know 12 years so I personally don't see the need for associate member because of the fact it's restricted to special permits and also because there's other ways of the sitting planning board members to participate okay Alyssa so as is my want I guess I get to say it more bluntly than Steve did the people who think that this is like a backup plan like zoning board of so good I see how tired I am like the ZBA associates they didn't read the memo and the candidates who think that they want to do that also didn't read the memo because as Steve just pointed out it's very clear in the memo which was not clear the last five times we talked about this as a town council that they can't do any of the things that we normally think of associates is doing they can only do this one tiny thing that we almost never do so there is zero point in appointing them because they won't be sitting at meetings they won't be doing anything unless they're delegated exactly the way it says in mass general law these are nothing like ZBA associates they don't get to do any of the other things ZBA associates are exactly like ZBA members not at all a fact for planning board so what I would like to see us do to dispose of this once and for all is to refer to the and again we only got this this morning so let's be fair to ourselves we've been reading library things for weeks is to refer it over to the planning board and say do you see a reason to leave it in or do you see a reason to just go ahead and combine this with another hearing we're already having to just get rid of it so that we can stop having this conversation where we're talking past each other where people are saying but I want them to serve like backups when legally they can't be backups so let's either get rid of it or leave it in there so we can keep having the argument but let's ask the planning board what they think of that and like I said it could be combined with another joint hearing with the CRC about a million other things and just be a shorter topic uh Dorothy we have to remember they're not meeting behind closed room in closed doors I went to planning board meeting after planning board meeting for over a year or so anyone could go to the meeting anyone can watch the zoom and you can watch the recorded session anyone could get access to the materials the only thing that I was not able to do was to go on a site plan review visit and these people wouldn't be allowed to do that either so I don't see if you want to learn what the planning board does it's easy to do if you're crazy enough to want to put the time in that's it for yourself Dorothy sorry it's late I'm going to suggest that I contact the chair of the planning board and the chair of CRC and that they have some kind of discussion about this and that for the time being we do nothing unless I hear a motion from the floor Dorothy Darcy no that was yes okay done with that item Mandy has a hand up yeah Mandy I'm sorry I was just going to give some timing of we there's a possibility that you know the the hearing on the moratorium will be in late May I think it's May 19th but there's a little bit of time to be able to if this if the planning board wanted to take action on the zoning bylaw to be able to try and notice it for the same night to save some time got it all right um do we want to plow through one more all right this is a recommendation that came from CRC I'm going to call on George to talk about the recommendation I'm now serving in CRC which I'm really excited about I'm sorry G it's that's okay I'd love to get out from under GL but uh so yes this came from GL and it looks like you all want to deal with it tonight I was shaking my head no but that's all right um I don't want to repeat what's in the report the report spells out um the arguments pro and con uh essentially I think what would be helpful Lynn if we're going to talk about it tonight is to put the proposed bylaw up on the screen so people can see it um if we would you put the proposed rule of procedure 10 thank you rule of procedure was correct um and so this was um before uh GL and um we had dealt with it in two different meetings and uh it was passed four to one and as I said the arguments pro and con are in the report which hopefully you all read the only point I would make is that I voted with the majority on this not because in fact I support it I really don't know at the moment I've a number of minds but I felt that it was important that it come before the council and that we have a discussion um and so um there it is in front of you and I think it's time for people to uh speak on what their positions are um I myself have my questions but I'm going to hold them off for the moment again just repeating that I voted in the majority it was four to one um to send this on to the council primarily because I felt it's something we need to talk about and let me just say this is the first time it's a discussion only I'm going to limit this discussion for 20 minutes okay the clock is 10 37 Kathy oh you muted Kathy I totally support this I'll be really short and I think it's consistent with what okoh had come up with and I particularly like the as long as a member is an active contributing member of the board or committee you know that we're not giving tenure to people who just are sitting in a seat um but the notion that each of these positions and the finance people who are residents have actually said it takes them a while to figure out what's going on so that um putting in the time is worth it if you know you can continue but you would like them to be active so I I think this would be a great addition to our role Dave Schrager so I'm exactly the opposite I'm totally against this unless we're willing to do a metric that has other qualifications education experience where you live etc so I'm a believer in affirmative action where everybody gets an equal chance at positions and I don't believe I think this is anti affirmative action so I think that once your term is expired then your term is open to anyone so we can definitely say you know under experience you should put down the fact that you have experience on this planning board and this is what you've done but that experience shouldn't be weighed any more heavily than somebody else of any other community member in Amherst one other comment is there's confusing language at the very beginning that if you've completed a first term we have people that are serving terms of one year or two years so we should be clear about what that means but in any case I think we could definitely develop a score sheets just like we're doing for the OPM you know for the elementary school in which this would be one of them but absent that absent our willingness to do that I don't think we should single out a particular characteristic and give that weight Evan so a couple things I'm not a hundred percent sure where I fall on this it largely mimics what was in the adopted OCA internal policy for OCA which when we talked about that I made clear was very much a compromised language between sort of two viewpoints that we felt like the language that OCA adopted was a compromise this isn't exactly the OCA language OCA's language was taken directly from the town's appointed committee handbook I think sections 2.3 and 2.6 maybe I'd have to check for that in my head so I guess I do have one question about why this language why the changes that are here why they are here and why they're different than what's in the appointed committee handbook says point number one point number two is that I think the language is a little confusing because when I first read a second or third term for at least six years I was reading as a second six-year term or a third six-year term where I think you're really talking about six cumulative years so I think the language needs to be cleaned up and clarified a bit I'll say that regardless of whether we adopt this or not I don't think it belongs in section 10 of rules of procedure it's not about council committees really and so it isn't about committees of the town but it just feels a little bit different to me I'm not quite sure where it goes and then the last thing I wanted to say is I think that if we're going to delve into appointments like this we need to also look at other sections of the appointed committee handbook so for instance we there is a rule in the appointed committee handbook that no one should be appointed to more than no more than two permanent committees at a time do we have that rule as well and so I'd actually like us to take a pause on this and maybe ask GLL to look at the appointed committee handbook more broadly and see if we want to incorporate more aspects of that into our rules or if this is the only one because to me it doesn't make sense to just pull this one out when there are actually other things that have also been discussed I know in OCA when we were looking at appointing to the ZBA and we had someone who already served on board of licensed commissioners there was a question of okay so that's a second permanent committee there's been questions about are we okay with people serving on both planning board and ZBA there's no rule against that and so I actually think there's a lot of questions about appointments that I'd like to see on GLL delve into a little bit if we're opening this book because I think it's a broader conversation than just this this one section of the community handbook Darcy uh yeah I'd agree with Evan it makes sense to look more broadly but um I do think that the issue about term limits should probably be um decided first because of the fact that it's time sensitive with the upcoming appointments so anyway um the issue came on referral from CRC and I can you hear me yeah go ahead it was from GLL no Lynn she's correct it was actually referred to us okay thank you okay I'll head to her yeah I I argued um that it was a full council issue so I am glad that it's now before the full council um there are really two issues whether we should have a unified policy um regarding term limits for the council regarding reappointment reappointment to the three committees instead of allowing each committee to determine its own procedure the second issue is the policy itself whether we agree that incumbent members of the planning board zoning board of appeals and resident members of the finance committee should receive a preference and reappointment based on their having gained expertise and experience for up to six years when the balance would turn in favor of preferring newcomers um with regard to the substance of the proposal uh as Evan said it's in large part the former ochre rule um the the ochre rule didn't specifically say six years but that was something that um we had added um two three year terms meaning meaning six years Alyssa had suggested that and um the committee agreed so um but I added the actual word six years um the term limits uh policy is basically that of ochre the current gol and um the current gol policy that is and the historic rule in the town manager handbook so um and just what we've done historically in in Amherst it balanced it's it's it set up so that it balances the need for new faces on our committees with the need for experience in the wish to honor the commitment of volunteers who are willing to continue serving so um I uh would argue that our committees of the council should not have different policies regarding term limits um basically because it doesn't make sense with a unified council procedure committees won't be jockeying to change their internal rules in order to accomplish a particular outcome my time is up that was three yes could I please finish since it's my proposal or um in this case we have three committees that have made appointments since we started all three came up with different procedures when the planning board appointments moved from the former outreach communications and appointments committee to the crc crc changed the rule regarding giving preference to incumbents right before um a particular planning board member would have been reappointed there was a major uproar because he was one of a minority of two on the seven member board who had historically opposed unfettered downtown development because of the new rule that member was allowed to be ousted the the issue that you're raising is not the issue on before the council tonight i i think it absolutely is and i i insist i'm sorry but it's not this is the issue i was asked to put on the agenda the issue you're raising is not on the agenda this is the this is the actual issue this is the issue this is the minority janet mcgallon is up for reappointment soon and the chair of the crc has made it clear that she wants the i have a point of order this this is um day out of line this is exactly what the question has been in crc a point of privilege thank you i'm sorry counselor do not just referred to me as having an opinion that i have not ever stated um i would ask that or was going to imply potentially about some sort of statement i've made that i may not have stated and i'd ask her to refrain from doing so well i guess i would just ask that um my understanding was that your opinion that was stated at this at the gol meeting was that you argued that you should not be bound um by the choices of a former council and you should be able to vote for vote to replace the members of the planning board with the people that you want on the planning board and if that's incorrect i invite you to correct me ben joe would you like to make another statement yes i would um i will address that issue only um i have never made a statement regarding any potential appointment to a direct individual or non-individual regarding the upcoming appointments as i've spoke in gol regarding my opinion on this potential rule to imply that any opinion on this rule is to be considered um as an opinion on any potential applicant to the upcoming planning board or zoning board of appeals appointment CRC will be making is an incorrect implication that i absolutely refute i'm going to go back to a point of order as well this motion or this piece in front of us is strictly about term limits it is nothing in absolutely nothing was sent to me that dealt with the way in which different committees do the selection of the people they're advancing to the council so i don't we are not discussing that item that item is not on the agenda and therefore it is not on the table for discussion the only item on the table for discussion is the one on the screen ebb and you you end up still are do you have another comment that that was that was accidental okay andy so i um thank you for the motion of this on the screen i um bill like steve's that um said earlier that uh there's a question of making sure that the committees that are doing the screening are looking at bringing forward to the council the best qualified most diverse candidate it's possible and the experience that somebody has from having served previously while appreciated is just one of the criteria certainly getting diversity which is a value that we've talked about many times and steve mentioned is a value but there are also unique expertise that could be of great value if for example there was nobody who was an architect or had any experience in with architecture and there was somebody who came along with that kind of spec um expertise and it was really felt that by a board that it was needed whichever board it may be um the same thing could be true of finance uh committee or anything else then the appointing committee should be able to look at that criteria and the uh uh idea that you're going to say that there's a presumption of reappointment not only um stops that from being considered but it even stops the applicant who has those attributes of diversity or special qualifications from even coming before the committee because there's no reason that they would apply listen so we have a fundamental misunderstanding here this is not a term limit proposal that that's not what these words say that is not what these words say that might be what somebody's goal was but that's not what this is this is one amongst as we've been discussing here of several criteria for whether or not someone's going to get reappointed there is no hard and fast term limit in here at all a term limit is a piece is a set of words that says you can't be appointed after x period of time that's a term limit those words don't appear here anywhere they don't appear in the appointed committee handbook they don't appear in okah they don't appear in any of the committees the town council's worked on let's be clear the appointed committee handbook the 2011 version please not the 2005 version is a standing document it is not something we threw out because now we're a town council it is a standing document that applicants look to and the town manager largely follows remember that the town manager almost entirely reappoints every single person who asks to be reappointed by and large we don't question that we have encouraged him to think of things more our way but we can have our own separate process that is different than his which is different than how life used to be how life used to be is we all worked from the same set of criteria which was the appointed committee handbook I appreciate the attempt that was made here to clarify so that we're not having this argument about people I really appreciate that we're trying to do it in a hypothetical way and I think we are at the right stage of the year to be able to do it in a hypothetical way unfortunately we have a lot of other time pressures and I think that the wording here needs to go back to as Evan mentioned the OCA work which I was satisfied with because it was pretty close to the appointed committee handbook this wording is sloppy it says for at least six years why would we suddenly start saying oh yeah planning board you don't really know what you're doing until seven years seven or eight like that's not where we're going with this so we need to perhaps say up to six years before you start kicking into the idea of the newcomer and it does need to be part of that other healthy member body criteria it is not the only consideration I appreciate what this was attempting to do it is not a term limit that's not what this says if that's the goal we need different words in it so maybe the idea is it goes back to go out everybody who's working on appointments has heard this conversation and knows that they're going to have to make a justification when they bring their recommendations forward to the town council I'm just going to point out that we only have two minutes left of the 20 minutes we're going to devote to this shall we um I just had a question that I wanted to pose for all of you and I don't think we're the time to discuss it but in my mind I'm thinking that okay our goal our intention is to whatever the appointment should enhance and strengthen the planning board that's the goal right and so as others have mentioned if somebody comes with a unique set of skills we should not be not taking them even though this doesn't save it says it's a preference to the appointment of people but but my question to you all is that um why is it that we need to give preference in a committee to people because they've served and we should reappoint them whereas as counselors we go out for elections every two years or three years and so there's no preference for us so why are we suggesting that for committee they work so hard and we should give a preference to people who've been there for three years I mean I of course we're grateful for everyone who's working and everything but and that's a quote and I haven't made it by mind but this is just my thinking so I wanted to hear other people's perspective on that that why are we thinking that because they work for three years we should give them the preference okay um we've now spent 20 minutes on this I'm going to spend more time if people want to continue to speak um but then I don't want people complaining about how long the meeting went um Alyssa you have your hand up is it up because you wanted to say something more shallony same thing mandy joe thank you I will not say everything I would like but I do want to put a couple things out there from all the conversations I've had within CRC within gel that I've heard from oka it has become clear to me that members of the council understand the word preference differently and that is a very big problem if you're going to put and adopt a rule that uses the word preference because if we understand it differently then the people reading it that are trying to apply for a position will understand it differently and this argument will still come up year after year after year um because it will be understood differently and and that is one of the biggest reasons um I can't support this as worded completely um I will the report indicated some of my things I will save responses to councillor Dumont and some of my other opinions for a further conversation Dorothy I agree with Alyssa this is not a term limits measure um it was an attempt to maintain the ability of the planning board um and the zoning zoning board of appeals to perhaps have more than one view I and so which probably not possible for us to do that so I guess I'm going to go and say with Alyssa let's go back to that appointment book and just um stick with that okay uh I'm going to go to Sarah Schwartz you took your head your hand up and now you took it down yeah I I think that I I think a lot of people know how I feel about this and I would just like to make it very clear that when we first started trying to figure out how to appoint people we felt like we needed some rules and some procedures so at least it you know it it looked like we we had some thing to stand on when we recommended someone I think we all remember the first time that we went through this there was a lot of argument there were councillors who were saying that we had to respect um peoples the time that they had spent and their expertise on a committee it was even suggested by a planning board member and by several councillors that 12 years might be the recommended amount of time for people to serve um so it didn't come out of nowhere in discussing this more in many different committees it's become very clear that planning board and zba appointments are political and it has been expressed by people that that yeah they are elected officials they were elected by certain people who had certain goals and it's only natural that that that an elected official would want to back up the goals of the people who elected them it was even has been said that you know to that point there shouldn't be any messing around about justification that's justification enough and that there would be a preference for no rules so that's really where this is coming from I think it is some people's some people want to say I think that we should make things at least look like you know we can recommend one person for these reasons right so that it seems fair to people who are applying that we have some rules about how we choose people and if you've been on a committee for a certain amount of time what you would need to do in order to stay on if you would like to this is what it comes down to so maybe we're not ready to decide this tonight but I think it's rich that a lot of the councillors who were fighting very much to say that originally they they wow we really need this time served or now saying it doesn't matter so I'd like to cut the the baloney and just say we know the issue on the table okay we know it so maybe we just need to have a separate time when we all are fresh to just discuss whether or not we think there is merit in simply putting it out there that it is political and all of us you know if this is true if everyone does feel like they they need to represent who elected them that's fine but that's really the issue I don't want to pussy foot around what we're trying to say here this is what we're trying to say so maybe we just say let's table this for another day when we can talk about the merits of that okay Steve Evan and Darcy each of you have spoken before we are not voting on this tonight so I really take exception to what was just stated I have absolutely no idea who elected me nor do I have any idea what the goals are of those people who elected me I'm serve the entire town I don't even serve district four I was elected by district four to serve the town and my job is to use my best judgment to advance the the help advance the town I have no I have no there's nobody I'm not representing any particular group but I still have a problem with this because essentially what we're saying well actually maybe let me paraphrase this really what we're saying is that every appointment to the planning board zoning board resident members of the finance committee are six year terms why don't we just we could just say that which is so you know essentially that's and I know that we all don't agree on what the word preferences but we could say that everybody gets a six year term and after three years we review to see whether or not we're going to take you off in a way that's a much clearer message to send than this other way so I don't think a six year term is a good idea I think a three year term is a good idea and I think that what I've said before that after those three years you you're re-evaluated so if you have a tough time defining preference and good luck defining active and contributing so I don't think that we'll agree on what that means either so I like it not to find I like it this clean through your terms period Evan yep real quick just building on what Mandy and Alyssa said you know the word preference is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this in two places Alyssa made clear that this is not a term limits rule the idea that it preference is given does not mean that you are done after six years it just means that there might be preference given to someone else so I want to make sure this is mischaracterized as a term limits rule but the other thing I want to make sure is not mischaracterized as we did receive an email about this it said that the GL voted for what they described as an auto renew or a rule that would auto renew and I want to also make clear that this is not an automatic reappointment or an automatic renewal the word given preference for reappointment does not mean you have to be reappointed and again much of this language was lifted from the appointed committee handbook earlier I said 2.5 I mean 2.6 I found it is 2.5 the reappointment one and I just want to add that the sentence that was eliminated from or it was not carried over that comes after service may be appropriate is a committee member is under no obligation to accept reappointment nor is the appointing authority obligated to offer reappointment and so I want to make it very clear for the public and the media that this is not an auto renew rule that a preference for reappointment we can debate that but that does not mean that someone gets reappointment and in fact in the appointed committee handbook it makes clear that there is no obligation for reappointment thank you okay Darcy yeah I would I would agree with what what Evan just said the one of the advantages to having the preference after the first term um is just stability um just um taking to the extent possible the politics out of it so that we don't have to have a battle every three years we can only have we can hold it off until the sixth year um and uh you know that that leads to less chaos less divisiveness and just more stability in general as far as like not not having to to again have you know have a big battle over there every time um every three years we don't we that that's not that's that's something that we would be looking for thank you uh Steve I believe your hand is up Mandy Joe you have another comment yeah um I think also Jamon's comments just indicated what the problem with this language is because um it is a political appointment and she just indicated that she doesn't want to battle every three years but if you add the language to the appointed handbook that the that a person is not obligated to be offered reappointment it still is a battle every three years that's not going to this language will not end that um and to go to some of the things that have been said about my views on this um I am the counselor that said I would prefer no rules at all because we're elected to make our own best judgment on to who the appointments are um and we were elected maybe without any appointments without any ideas or maybe we were but there could be a time and a place where the planning board or the zoning board of appeals issues of permit or recommends a bylaw or doesn't recommend a bylaw that the town hates and the counselors run or candidates run on that issue and that issue specifically and they get elected to either affirm that one or not affirm that one and to replace candidates I'm not saying any of us were elected to do that but if that happens in the future and this language is here you've just the this language takes away each individual counselors ability to use their own judgment and their own beliefs on what a good board what a good committee is and whether that counselor believes that this person or that person would be the better person for the job at that time um and that goes to things like whether there are differing opinions on there and a lot of things has been said about that very first appointment and a lot of them things have been implied about a number of us counselors I will just remind this council that I voted in favor of the ochre recommendation um back in our very first planning board appointments three years ago two and a half years ago um despite what many counselors have implied about potentially my vote or other votes um I'm going to take two more comments and then I'm going to stop Dorothy Pam you have your hand up clarifying question doesn't and I maybe it's late I may be totally wrong aren't some of the appointments the planning board one year two years and three years they are yeah so nobody I would like to see this thing changed I like the idea three year terms um but one year terms do seem like kind of a waste unless the person really bombs out because they're just barely you know got the other know what they're doing then a point of order on that one the charter requires three year terms the state law requires three year terms the only time it's not three years is if there is an appointment to fill an unexpired term which the law says must be just for unexpired terms the only condition I I I agree with that I didn't mean to mislead anybody okay I just want to clarify that again I also voted in as manager said in favor of the person we're talking about and I find it offensive that you know every statement everything we're doing is political by those down because we are in politics but to say out of the way that this is in some way I mean maybe you are making political decisions in that way but I don't I don't think it's fair at all to assume that others are into make those accusations it's just so divisive and not helpful at all so let's just focus on what would make this process a good one for everyone and get the best planning board get the best committees on board and I know Alyssa will not like it but what is Northampton doing about this I want to see what other town I I really don't know what is the best way to choose in my mind the best way to choose is based on the pool of candidates and I've always been consistent with that it's not that I change flip flop that's been my statement all through the different appointments that let's look at the pool of candidates and who is the best candidate and I have voted on all sides just like Mandy Jo did right we're going to move on you can please take this down there are no appointments board to committee liaison reports is there anything further Mandy Jo or any questions to Mandy Jo just another Claire you know just another to clear clear be clear that the the planning board and the CRC will hold a joint hearing on May 19th that the Wednesday at 8 p.m. on the moratorium thank you Kathy elementary school building and there's no update on that the the well the only update is that the advertisement request for bids is out and today various people who are interested were visiting doing site visits so that's good news that there is interest in bidding on the OPM so that doesn't close until the 19th of this month in terms of the final thing and at which point Steve and the rest of us have a lot of work to do Andy and besides pointing out that the finance committee's calendar for reviewing the budget is in the packet is there anything else no okay George nothing to add to the report Kathy anything from JCPC you put a report but I'm going to ask that if there's any questions it'd be for next week not this week yeah so there we did file the committee filed the report it went to Paul today and very late I put it in the council packet not expecting anyone would read it and I did a one page set of highlights of some of the more interesting things but that report is now formally filed it's a recommendation of the committee to Paul and that it's done thank you town services are great we and at our next two meetings which is going to be this Thursday and then the 22nd will be looking at the the Pomeroy Village intersection and hopefully making making a decision or a you know finalizing our recommendation possibly on the 22nd okay any liaison reports okay town managers report any questions of Paul Dorothy um this was a question to Darcy on TSO I'm sorry are you going to deal with the Guilford's residential park streets and parking issue in any of those next meetings uh it's not currently on the agenda okay I just want to make sure I attend those meetings so thank you and Mandy Joe you have your hand up yeah I just wanted to thank Paul for the in the detail on the board of licensed commissioners and what they're doing I thought that was fantastic and I'm thrilled to see that they're taking on their new role in town government with gusto and and enacting a ton of regulations to help them do their job I'm really good at cutting and pasting for our great staff it's okay you're getting the news the you're getting the word out uh Dorothy did you have your hand up to ask Paul a question please unmute the section on the town IT and the meetings um and information technology um I'm thinking of that and in relationship to the letter I received that we I guess we all received from Amherst media and wondering if the town's relationship is changing with Amherst media or there seems to be a problem I'm just wondering where do things stand so the town's relationship with Amherst media has not changed although we are doing a lot more with Zoom the town IT staff is handling a lot of the work Amherst media still fulfills the parts of its contract it's required to broadcast your meetings fines committee meetings school committee meetings planning board meetings etc there was some confusion I think about making sure that they had access to the the INET as we were constructing a new INET when we were doing the INET it was anticipated that they would by this point have built a new structure but that's not the case so we're not going to we we will make sure that they are always connected so they can do the the good work that they're that they're they're that they always do thank you are there any other questions okay then under the president's report I've placed in your packet for tonight the memo regarding hearing and the revote on the North Amherst Common that will either happen on May 3rd or May 17th I have to look at those two agendas which are already heavy are there any other questions or future agenda items or councilor comments Alyssa I just wanted to add that when it comes to the North Common issue I don't agree with the town attorney's advice not mentioning our bylaw associated with parking I appreciate that they were looking at our rules but they didn't even mention the bylaw that we have associated with parking and so I think that should be checked so that they can say nope actually that doesn't apply and that's why we're not quoting it or actually yes that is also part of it and the other piece was associated with revenues I believe we received some information in an email and I'd like it to be broken out in terms of revenues that's like paying for parking but then the revenue that's also tickets for overstaying your welcome or for parking in the wrong spot etc because I know we have that broken out because we've talked in the past that we actually depend on giving people tickets although we try not to be mean to people we actually do get substantial income from that again for that hearing when that's ready we don't need the answers today Hi Kathy um yeah Lynn I just have a very request um so it's whatever we were April 5th the as soon as you know that we're going to do it could we put the pictures and the memo that talks about parking up somewhere so people can see them because I found a lot of people didn't even know what we were um making choices about um there was not there was just not broad knowledge of what we had in front of us as a decision it you know when we first saw it in November when it had gone to CPAC it had one configuration then it went to TSO came out with two other versions but it wasn't so I just would like to see it up somewhere um enough yeah and then my other question is in are the bylaw that Alyssa referred to it says that all the butters should be formally notified and I would want to make sure the businesses know this is happening um in in a formal way because I'm not sure that they knew that was up night too when I went back and looked at who was participating that night so I know the BID went around and surveyed them but I would just really like to know that they were aware that there'll be a a hearing so are there any other comments Alyssa you have your hand up okay um thank you any other comments at all any future agenda items councilor comments Kathy I'm just trying to lower my hand thank you seeing none and we have no topics no additional topics executive session I'm going to call the meeting adjourned at 11 20 thank you