 Since the commencement of political campaigns in September of 2022, politicians have been marketing themselves, differentiating themselves from others, and making proposals on how they will perform if they get elected. While some of these promises are made at campaign grounds, some are contained in their manifesto. But the experienced Nigerians have had, with politicians who made big promises during campaigns and failed to implement them, have continued to re-engineer the trust deficit. Now, one major issue thrown up at every election cycle in Nigeria is the debate on whether politicians contesting for public offices will fulfill their promise made during the election-earing period if elected or not. This trust deficit has been a challenge with politicians since the nation returned to its democratic rule in 1999, making it difficult for members of the public to believe most of the campaign promises or commitments made. Well, joining me tonight to discuss the issues are Ikena Agwasohi, who is a legal practitioner and Sonny Maduka, who is a political analyst. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. You're welcome. Great. Let me start with you, Mr. Maduka. It's very interesting. I mean, I'm sure you've seen more election cycles than I have, so you obviously know where we're coming from when we talk about some of these commitments or promises that are being made during campaigns. I remember listening to one campaign that was done back in the 60s, and I heard some things that were similar sometime in 2019, and I thought to myself, if these promises that were made in the 60s were yet to be fulfilled in 2019, and therefore, campaigners are still using the same words and the same slogans and making the same promises, does this mean that we have not necessarily grown from that back then till now? Yeah. If I start from 1992, I think that was a time that you can talk about credibility in elections in Nigeria, when Abdullah emerged and even defeating Tufa in Karno state. Prior to that, 1993, when it was unarmed, what happened was most credible candidates in Nigeria kind of excused themselves, unfortunately, anyway, when 1949 Fort Republic emerged. They excused themselves because they believed that something that happened to Abdullah probably would happen. So credible people didn't join. So what do you have are people who are a little bit with some kind of character default imagine and taking the space of a political arena. So to dismantle this particular cabal is going to be very, very, very difficult. So that was the problem. The politics as of today is not as ought to be because the leadership is being controlled by people with informed character. So we cannot get it right. And if you go down, you can understand that as human beings, what you don't have, you can't give. And you are who you are by your character. And that's where Nigerians are culpable, too. Because we have known these people for the past 20-something years. We're supposed to change the trajectory. We're supposed to change our mental ideology, Tarno. But we keep on voting the same people, knowing their characteristics, knowing their kind of people. So that is it. You can vote a thief and respect your common will to be safe. You can vote somebody who you know that his character is deformed and you expect honor, integrity, or honesty. It can happen. Of course, you can't vote a liar and you expect truthfulness. This is the problem we are having today. We've been voting the same set of people. There's nothing we can do than read exactly what we voted in court. I think 2023, I think it's going to change suddenly because we can see the enthusiasm of the youth because the youth, I mean, a little bit at the background, but in 2023, we can see the strength, the zeal that the youth is built in. And that is what is going to make this particular relation a little bit different. I'm curious when you say that 2023 will be a change. You're talking about the fact that we know the antecedents of these people and the fact that they are not trustworthy. But then we're still seeing many people campaign for, I mean, who do we not know within the ranks of these people who are running, I mean, the four front runners. We have at least 16 to 18 of these presidential candidates and nobody talks about the rest of them except the three or the four. But then there are people who are supporting them, whether they be young people, whether they be middle class, whether they be the normal people who are party men and women. So the question is, have we really learned anything or are we just comfortable because we know these faces and that's what we're going for? Because you see, you ask the average person, why are you voting for this person? And they say, well, we know him. So again, have we gotten to the point where we are, in your words, tired of doing the same thing over and over again or are we just somewhat numb to the process? I think the problem is that Nigerians are gullible. We are so gullible to the extent we can appreciate suffering or hardship. Every Nigerian cannot say he can't understand or he can't read the characters of these words who are coming out. Nobody can say that. Of course, our politicians understand how gullible we are and that is why they are using it to do what they are doing. So in this particular aspect, we understand that some of these candidates, what they after is just life ambition, not to serve. And of course, I trust one of the clerics who, and he says that 2022 will determine the number of Nigerians that are mad and those people that are sane. Because if you look at the political terrain, nobody can tell you what is happening. There are two other dancing naked and they are exposing exactly what we don't even know. They are the ones exposing it. So if any Nigerian is seeing these particular expositions, these dubious things that have been happening, these people, the way they've ruined this country. And they decided equally to start supporting this one. Then something is wrong with Nigeria. I think maybe we're under a spell because it is in the public glare. Nobody can tell you it's not a way of what these ones have done to this country. And of course, they are the ones exposing it. So anyone, any Nigerian who will say, I have not heard or known the antecedent of these ones, he's just, he's not a citizen. He's not a patriotic citizen. So that is why I said 2023 is going to decide truly if Nigerians were ready to get out of this particular infected human beings or we want to continue in our poverty line. The choice is ours. But not that we know. Nobody can tell you today it's not a way. But unfortunately, let me tell you why I'm so angry that even the intellectuals, they use whose future have been ruined. They are the ones championing for these ones to continue running in their future. So it becomes so, so, so much something you can even find some cow on earth. Can you see somebody who is slapping you, killing you? And the way you stand up, you start healing that same person. Then it will be maybe to your grave before you can understand that you're dead. So I think 2023 is going to determine exactly the kind of Nigeria or Nigeria we are. I believe that. Well, we have a young person in the studio, so I'm going to direct that question to him. It's very interesting, just as he said, that mostly young people who supposedly are the ones who are championing for a new Nigeria are the same people who are supporting the so-called, in his word, bad politicians. But how many people, how many Nigerians really do their homework when it comes to politicians? Do some background check? Or do we just take them on face value? Because anybody can write a manifesto, anybody can tell tales. But when it comes down to it, how many of us really do the digging? Thank you for having me. First and foremost, you're right, not a lot of people are digging. As you said earlier that a lot of us are numb. We don't believe that there's even a point in voting. We feel we're just going to be given a leader and take it from there. And that leader is going to replicate the same things. There's also a distrust. I think some of our presidential candidates are of good character, but some people refuse to see that they just say, oh no, all politicians are bad. Whichever one we get is not going to do a good enough job. So not enough of us are digging, not enough of us are asking the right questions. And there's a sense of tribalism still existing when we're looking at the elections. You speak to some young people. Some would say I will support this person because he's from my tribe. So are we really tired? Do we want a different trajectory for our future? I'm not so sure. But the reason why I'm here today is hopefully to convince a few who are refusing to make the honest, glaring decisions. So just like my senior statesman said, who is mad at the madman or the people following the madman? So we need to be very honest with ourselves about the reality and pick very wisely because it's our future, literally. It's a literally. Yes. I had a gentleman here last week Monday and I asked the question, if we really know what we want, who we want as a leader and what would be the characteristics? You're a young person. Just like Mr. Madagai, you may not have suffered the wars and the independence and all of the military system. But what exactly do you think that the average Nigerian young person wants today? Aside from us just saying we want good governance, what are those things that will make a government look like it's good or be a good government? Well, I will answer that question. As a lawyer, we have the reasonable man test. So answer it as a reasonable man should answer it. So anybody outside of this might not be being so reasonable. What we should anticipate, what we should expect, what we should demand, what should be given to the people are the basics, the necessities for them to thrive. That is what we need. We need water. We need shelter. You know, we need food. We need power. These are the things that we need. And some people represent systems, past government systems that have kept these things from being given to the people. So why are we going to the same people expecting the same, expecting a different result? So you asked, as I said, some people are not being very honest and what they want for the country. I'm not sure. A lot of Nigerians don't believe in Nigeria. But many Nigerians are saying they're tired. They want a new Nigeria. So that's why I'm asking. So why are some candidates getting traction? Why are some candidates getting traction if we want a new Nigeria? If we want a new Nigeria, the list of presidential candidates should be reduced to people that can give that. And the most important thing we should look at when we want to pick a leader is the character of the leader. We're looking, as you're right, we've been looking at the surface. We've ignored the interior, which is the heart and the brain, which are they working for themselves or are they working for the people? We need people that will work for the people. That's all we need. What's anything else outside of this is going beyond what we need. What we need are leaders that care. From the character of the men running for president, who do you think, who does your instinct tell you will care enough about you to do anything for you? My instinct tells me, because you're asking about those people who are getting traction, my instinct tells me that this man will give me more money when he's in government. He'll give you more money. Or he'll give me contracts. I'm thinking, because you're asking that there are certain people that shouldn't be getting traction, but they're getting traction. That's because there are people who believe in them that believe that when they're there, they might get to benefit something from it. So thank you for bringing that up. It's very important. I think as Nigerians, it is time to stop thinking about just yourself, your family, your tribe and your religion and think about Nigeria as a whole. The inflation is affecting me in the South. It's affecting my brothers in the North. It's affecting my brothers in every aspect of Nigeria. The lack of infrastructure is across the board. So we need to stop, so okay, we need to, it's not, you and a few people might be okay under a certain regime. But if Nigeria does not better, you are not, you cannot enjoy that thing that you are claiming you are working alone for. You can't have this to do with your security man has not eaten. You understand? Everybody needs to be taken care of. So we need to stop being so small minded and so selfish. You're right. Another major reason why some political candidates are getting traction is because of the selfish mindedness of some people. They say, okay, my person goes, this is an opportunity for me and my generation. The picture is bigger than any individual or any group of individuals, we're about 200 million. Let's talk about re-engineering mindsets because you see, we all, every time we're getting closer to an election cycle, we always hear that this election is going to be either make costs or break costs, it's going to be a life changing one. It's going to be, you know, but they say, oh, it's a water, in fact, I've heard it so many times, 2023 elections, it's going to be a watershed moment, yadda, yadda, yadda. But what will make it a watershed moment without the people? Because again, if our mindsets have not been re-engineered in any way, what sort of change are we expecting, magic? Well, you don't expect magic. You know, magic is something that will cloud your mind to look like it's real, but it's not real. The fact is before us here. The truth is before us here. It is glaring, it is unambiguous, just like you cannot point it out. If we look at the antecedent of all the candidates, do we go through the history of all these candidates? And they've even made the job so easy for every Nigeria. They've made it easy because they are the ones bringing out to folk all the atrocities they've committed against this country. So what next do you want us to do? You want God to come down and change our mindset or change us. This is a time for us to look in and do the needful. You know, I used to say people can always go and pray and fast and do what they want. It's not a time for us to fast. This is a time for us to take decision that is going to affect our lives and the lives of our children and future generations. And it's very, very clear. It's not ambiguous. You know, we know the real and the truth. Until we get out of sentiments, emotional sentiments, there's no way we can re-engineer our mindsets. The emotional sentiment that this is my tribe man or tribes man, this is my religionist man, this is my uncle, this is my brother, until we get out of it, it's going to be very difficult for us to change our mindset. Our mindset is that when you look deep and say, no, I have to shift like a paradigm shift. A paradigm shift will not occur until there's a deliberate action by the person who wants to take that decision. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. This, this, this sounds like a lecture for people who are in the middle class who, I mean, the average person is hungry. The average person is unable to buy fuel to, you know, power his house, even his business or her business. The average person is unable to pay their child's hoof, is unable to feed right now as we speak. The typing of our belts is almost killing us. And you're saying that we need to re-engineer our mindsets, we need to have a paradigm shift. That man doesn't understand that. He's hungry. So what exactly, how do you, how do you appeal to the, to the conscience of that person? And if you just said it, if, if you are hungry and you cannot buy food, if you need a fuel, you can buy fuel, you need a shelter, there's no shelter. The basis, they are not there, provided for by your leaders and by the same set of people who are clamoring for your food. When you deliberately or decide to vote them back, then you don't have anything to complain. So the, the indices are there, the factors are there. We know that these government and other government in the past, they failed us. They failed the use. What do we need to do? Look at the, look at the indices, as at 2014, 15, the bag of rice is 8,000 plus. What is the bag of rice today? 47,000. Fuel is around 87, today is 300. I bought fuel in my village, 400 Naira per liter. Kerosene. So when you look at those indices, they are enough to change your mental, you know, memory or whatever. They are enough to reset your mind, to know that beyond what we say, the factors that are facing you are clear indication that you need to change your mindset. So it is very clear. Look at today, if I open my phone, I know how many people are asking for one thing or the other. I feel bad. This is a country so blessed, but we can't reap it because some few individuals decide that it is your tone, it is your own, you know, ambition, not necessarily because they want to serve. So how do you, how do you, how can you as a person with average mindset, not think that the same set of people, they don't have anything to give you than the same trajectory we're going through. So the indices are there. So if anybody looking at what is happening today, the situation Nigerians are today, and you feel that you are okay with it, good. And that is like I said, let me repeat it again. After 20 to 23, especially the presentation, we know the number of Nigerians who are really sane and, you know, who are not sane because the hardship is very, very, very difficult. As of today, it's like we don't even have leadership. Nobody is talking to us. Nobody is even caring about you as a citizen. If well is there, the NFP is not, so what is it that as a citizen that could give you room to even think of returning the same cabal to a room? It is a disaster. It is like you digging your own grave or your own grave or your dead body. So we must, with what is happening, we must change our mindset, at least think like human beings and get out of this door drum. Let me go back to you again. Let's talk about tracking these promises because if you must hold a politician to his promises, then you have to keep track of it. How many of us really keep track of those promises? I mean, close to some people who have reminded this government, the Bahá'í administration over and over again about some of the campaign promises that they made, even the very ridiculous ones. Although the most of all of them is the three things that he came into power through. He talks about the fact that he was going to fight corruption. He was going to deal with insecurity. He was going to deal with unemployment. He also talks about corruption. How many of these things have we seen the Bahá'í administration accomplish, even though the President has again and again pat himself on the back saying he's done his best, it's just that you guys can't see it. But now we have a lot of young people who are committed. We're seeing a lot of young people getting their PhDs, still a lot more, you know, citizen defense. How do we track these promises? How do we make sure that we hold these people to account? Because it looks again that like we're more of complainers as opposed to people who are holding up leaders responsible. So as my senior statement mentioned about the mentality, you see the Nigerian mentality is one that is based on a perception of respect, where our elders are basically gods and whatever they say is the case, but God exists and God has said the nature of behavior that human beings should have towards each other, love, respect, and inclusivity. If we're not keeping in line with that, then whatever else we're doing is not good enough. So yes, as you said, we seem to be more complainers because in our society, as our culture, the Nigerian culture is your dictator to what is and what isn't. And that is tailored to what favors certain people. So we actually need to hold our leaders accountable. How? Well, simply, by first having leaders that care enough beyond the point, manifestos, maybe we should do a manifesto review every two years, every year, where are we on our manifesto? We said we're doing this, this, and this, hey, my people, we've done up onto this point at one year. We've done up to this point. We should do that. Well, what you've got to care to do that. That's your responsibility to hold them to account. How do you do that? Well, I mean, this is where things like protesting against certain things that our leaders have done, rather than sitting down and looking, let us actually take action. Last time you protested, you saw what happened. Yes. You say that you can actually protest again. Why can't we not protest again? It's a civic duty. Well, we saw how answers ended, so how many people are willing to join you to go back to the streets after what they saw? It depends on their level of care. As I said, if we, this is, both this conversation is intertwined, in the sense that if we do not pick a good leader, then we're going to be dealing with these issues where we have to be answering the hard question of the people we are dealing with, of the people presenting themselves for the position. Who do you think you can call out to, and they will answer you, based on the character of the people? So you need to pick leaders that can even answer you. This is why the choice of leadership is in our hands. It's our time now to decide, and we should decide wisely. We cannot pick somebody from the same system and put and anticipate a difference. We are not being honest with ourselves. We can't pick people that have corruption all over them and say that we are hoping for a better Nigeria. So a lot of Nigerians are still only thinking for themselves, and they want to get their own opportunity to be part of that pie stealing. That is why some of us, because Nigerians are some of, if not, we're part of the one percent of intelligent people. The most uneducated Nigerian man anywhere in the world is still as very much intelligent as anyone else, any other human being on earth. Where do you see, the elections are about 34, if not mistaken, 35 days away from today, and PBCs are yet to be received. Many other people who have even picked these PBCs are picking it up because they will use it as a form of identity, not necessarily that they want to show up to vote. If you were to talk to the young people who are watching tonight, what would be the messaging to them? Let us not be too quick to forget and ignore experiences. Now we are not talking of our parents' generation where we've heard stories. We've had direct experiences. You've given examples. We've had direct experiences, enough to teach all of us. We need to be very honest. I came on this show because hopefully soon I'll be a father. I'm also a son, and I'm a brother to every Nigerian on earth. So this is part of my civic duty, not because I want to be in the public eye, I don't want to be, but I have no choice but to come and speak up because I'm seeing some of us are still leaning towards the same mistake. And the same mistake is costing, is suicidal. The same mistake is suicidal. So we need to, our PBCs count and we need to use it wisely. Do not use it for money. Do not use it for short term. Have a look at things in a long term perspective. What is best for our future? That is what we need to look at when making this decision. Well, better said that way. I mean, I want to say thank you, Mr. Madukah, for being part of the conversation. Sonny Madukah is a political analyst, and Iken Agwasso is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. It was a pleasure. The conversation has to continue. It doesn't end here. Yes. It has to continue. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Well, we'll take a quick break. When we return, we'll be discussing the recent signing of a peace accord by some presidential candidates with others absent. What is the power that binds these candidates to the peace accord? We'll be right back after this break.