 Welcome to the Valley Advocate Podcast, featuring interviews that take us deeper into the people and happenings on the local scene. For more podcasts and a closer look at what's going on in the valley, visit us at valleyadvocate.com. Hi, my name is Dave Eisencettare. I'm the editor of the Valley Advocate and welcome to our Valley Advocate Podcast. I'm here with our arts editor, Gina Bevers, and we're going to be talking to a guest today. Why don't you talk a little bit about what we got? Yes. We're going to speak with an absolutely fabulous artist. His name is Imaw Imay. He is a professor at Westfield State University. I could go into exactly what you do, but I don't remember, so we'll save that for a minute. But he's an incredible artist. I did a review on his show up at Deerfield Gallery at the Von Osberg Gallery. And I met him that day for the first time, and it was just a fabulous thing. So we thought we'd bring him in, and he was also on a part of our cover story on our bleephole countries. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Article. Yeah. We talked to some folks from shithole countries, as our president would call them, to show how there really are important people making important contributions from Africa, from Haiti, from El Salvador, and Imaw is one of them. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much. So remind me, what is it that you do at Westfield State? Well, I'm a professor of art and art history at Westfield State University, and I've been there. I'm in my eighth year there now, and I teach primarily art history, very specifically a general survey course, and then I deal with the arts of Africa and the African diaspora, African-American art, Afro-Caribbean, and so on and so forth, and so I'm exploring more studio-like courses and special arrangements with students that allow me to work as an artist at Westfield, but it's still very new to me. I enjoy dealing with the art history, even as a practicing artist. I'd love to hear how you put together your Forgotten Girls series, or I guess it's a series of series. I just know from Gina's piece, I haven't seen, except for some of the pieces that we ran, but I'd love just to hear how you thought this up and how you went about doing it. It started at Westfield State University. I was working on, I was building my African-American art course, I was rebuilding it, my African-American art course, and as you're doing research on things, you run across things in your field that you've seen before but you don't pay attention to, and one of the things that I'd seen before but decided to pay more attention to this time was a 1907 publication, a children's book, titled Ten Little Nigger Girls, and there was a compliment to that, titled Ten Little Nigger Boys. I don't know which one came first. Same author who wrote and illustrated this horrendous text, and it's a nursery rhyme. We know it's for children and a cast of black girls is slowly eliminated, one by one. The girls are killed off or married off or something else, and it really is a way of poking fun at little black children and perhaps real traumas of little black children, but then also fantastical traumas, like large birds of prey coming and sweeping them away, but little white kids would be reading this as accounting, learning how to count. The stories themselves, the nursery rhyme is based off of a 1968 minstrel song titled Ten Little Engines, and you probably know the quote one, little two, little three, little indians. There are derivations of this. There are children's books now called Ten Little Monkeys, and it's part of our social fabric. This story hasn't gone away, even though the word nigger has been eradicated from public space for the most part. It's frowned upon, but the sentiments behind the story is still very much a part of our culture, and I wanted to retell this story. The historian of me wanted to discuss it, and the artist in me wanted to discuss it, and so I found a way to do both, and with this series Ten Little Nigger Girls, and that is one part of the Forgotten Girls series. The other part is addressing the recently abducted Cheabot girls, girls from Cheabot Nigeria in 2014. You've probably heard about the mass abduction of these girls by the terrorist organization known as Boko Haram, and so what I wanted to do was just call a little more attention to these girls as girls that were once in social media and were very much alive, and even Michelle Obama and everybody was talking about them, and then it just kind of disappeared because somehow it happened far away and it's distant and it's not really here, but you still have all these girls that are being raped, that now have their own children, that are dead, that are still missing in the forest. And the ones that have returned are alienated and marginalized, because they're considered terrorists. Exactly. And there's a story that can go on, even as I've been working on this series, as people would ask me, like, well what are you, I'm doing, sorry, I didn't explain the series. The series is one image per girl, and because there's so many of them, 276, I've just segmented the girls into chapters at this point to deal with this various aspects of their disappearance, but their lives, but also the possibility that their presence in this forest of captivity is maybe even changing the space they're in. Maybe they're having a bigger impact on the space than the terrible impacts that the space may be having on them, and so it's somewhat in the realm of fantasy that I imagine and reimagine these girls, even because I don't know them, I don't even know what they look like, a lot of them. And so people would say, well what is going to happen when all the girls are found, well they're not all going to be found alive, and even if they were all found alive, that doesn't change the fact that this traumatic thing happened, and the historian of me says we need to document this. So you have to reimagine all these girls, and so if you plan on doing it, I was really struck by this, all 276, to humanize all these girls that we may never see again. Number one kind of a trite question, how long do you think that would take? I mean I don't even know if you would have an answer to that, because as an artist it's something that you really have to feel in order to create that particular portrait, or in 276 it could be a lifelong project. The control freak in me wanted this, I wanted to have a way to figure this out. And so I was like okay, there will be really really small drawings, and I started those. They are not small drawings. Well, the first ones I started, and then I'm like okay well maybe I can time the drawings, and so I did these larger drawings that were 276 minutes long, and I made a game of it so it's like I can't spend any more time than this, and really cool images came out of that, and then I'm like but wait, I want to use this, and I want to use that, and I want to paint, and now there's color. I'm very confused about the project, and what's interesting about it is that some part of it, almost like Michelangelo, I'm in no way putting my name in the same sentence as Michelangelo, let me just be very clear about that, he's one of my heroes, but Michelangelo would often say that when people would say well this sculpture looks incomplete, and how come you didn't finish the face, and he was very known for just half a face, an eye, whatever, and he's like the marble told me to stop, you know, and so somehow allowing the project itself, the materials to dictate what happens, there is something beautiful about that, and it's not just poetry, there really is something to be said about allowing the material to say, or the theme or the topic to just kind of let you go where it needs to go, so right now, now I'm working on large colorful images, and I think this will be for a chapter, but I still got a bunch of black and whites that I think for a chapter, and I have a graphite that I think is for a chapter, and it's going to be a very confusing looking project. But you know, but I think the beauty of it all is that it's very organic, even the show itself is very organic, it's just for the just the black and white of the 10 little nigger girls to the dash of colors, beautiful colors with the Cheabock girls, but there are also some black and whites in the Cheabock series as well as the Riott series. So we're going to really look forward to that, and there's something that's coming up on February 5th at Westfield State University. That's a really big deal. I don't know how this is going to go. It's going to be amazing. I have never done anything like this before, and I am freaking out, okay, if I can be honest. What is it? So it is, so I started doing things on Facebook Live because it's there, and where I do like live paintings, and I just, you can like watch what somebody said, just literally just nothing there and something there. And it's kind of cool, like, oh my gosh, that's so amazing. It's not that amazing. I do this. It's really cool. It's like, okay, you do this. This is what I do is fun. All right. So and so because I don't have anything else to do with my life right now, I guess I've decided I've decided. Well, okay, the truth is there, there's I'm working on the 10 little nigger boys series right now. And this series has been particularly difficult for me. The girls were technically difficult to deal with this. Technically, I'm like I was limited to these materials, charcoal, Indian ink. I limited myself on purpose. I like playing games like that. Like, no, you can only work on this for four hours. You can only do it with this and force myself to work. The boys, I don't know what I'm doing. And so the boys now have color. They're structurally taller. They're six feet tall, seven feet tall. And so there's going to be a piece that I'm going to do on Westfield's campus. It was originally going to be in my studio, but because of some interesting activity that's been happening on my campus as of late, as a black man on my campus, I'm like, no, no, no, this is going to happen here. And I think it should happen here. And we should have a conversation about race and our history, recent history. And so it's going to be a large scale portrait of Trayvon Martin, a case that really just still kind of screws with my mind. It just, I just the kind of rage that I felt just watching this case unfold and the things that were said, the things that were said about this boy. Destroying his I just there's certain things you don't do to people that have died and and my and people and people who profess Christ in particular. I'm a Christian man. The things that were said, the things that were posted. And there is this almost like a veil of there's a veil of perceived anonymity that you have on social media. People, your face is there on the icon and everything, but there's some way you feel like it's not really me. And they just say things, things that were said. And I'm imagining his family reading these things and just tearing his character apart. And I didn't see it as any different from from the the lynchings of the early 1900s, the idea of the body, even in death, not having sanctuary and the taking a part of the body. And so I wanted to do, I wanted to deal with the Trayvon Martin case in a special way. And I'm going to do a live large portrait of him wearing a crown of cicadas and it's titled 17 years boy, the cicada insect as an as an allusion to a representation of the amount of time that Trayvon stayed alive on earth, talking about the life cycle of the cicada insect. Its nymph stays underground for 17 years and they come out and they made and you think they should live longer and that's it. And there's something short lived about them, but there is an expectation of more and they're even remnants that they existed. They're skins or shed and exoskeletons and whatnot, but the thing is gone. The sounds were there and now they're gone. And there's something about that that I'm kind of fusing with Trayvon Martin as a way of dealing with it, maybe maybe in a in a maybe in a poetic way, you know, but it's going to be a live portrait and it's going to start on February 5th. It's a time-based project that will be 17 hours long, which I've decided to split up over four days, each day representing a season, a season of a year. So each hour representing a year, right, and each day representing a season. And so it's a whole installation. There's going to be a portrait gallery. If everything goes away, I wanted to a portrait gallery of other boys. This has happened to it's not a Trayvon Martin project. It is inspired by him and really a larger conversation about the ways in which America still sees, even in its denial, still sees young black men. It's a very specific conversation because we can have a conversation about the ways in which America sees black men in general and we can have a conversation about the ways in which and it's a very distinct thing. America deals with black women and black girls. These are very distinct things. We tend to see black as monolith and it's like, oh, those black people. Slavery ended. Obama is president. Damn it. I'm sorry. And so somehow that's somehow that means when you bring these conversations up that you must be crazy because big black me, you couldn't understand this. I'm telling you that you are you are you are digging into history to rile things up, but for no reason. And I'm telling you like I'm I'm telling these people. I'm like, you would have to think I never I hate touting things, but Columbia graduate, departmental honors, Yale, PhD, Masters, PhD. I I am the definition of bootstrap pulling if you want to have that conversation, you know, son of Nigerian immigrants. Let's have this conversation. Why would I be telling you that race is a problem if it's not a problem? You know, and so I'm hoping that the conversation I'm hoping that conversations will happen. I'm not looking for everyone to agree with me. I really don't care. It's not my business. My issue is bringing these things up as an historian and as an artist and using the tools that God has given me to create a platform for discussion. And I hope that's what happens. I have so two things. So what you were mentioning, you were talking about some current event type stuff that's going on a Westfield that kind of inspired you to be more out there or outside with your art. I love if you could talk a little about that and also curious about your reaction to the the shithole country's remark and kind of how you seem to be someone who is really just your art is affected by what you hear in the news that you read. And I just kind of want I just want to hear your thoughts on that. Well, I mean, I don't believe that that we can be very specific. I don't believe that, you know, President Donald Trump's shithole comments about nations in Africa. I mean, you may not realize there are other nations. Africa is not a nation, you know, but nations in Africa and Haiti. That his shithole comments are not in many ways disconnected from the things that are happening not only at Westfield, but across a number of colleges in the United States. This is not it's not a not just a Westfield problem. There is a there has been a sleeping dragon. Anybody you speak to your next nearest black person in education, you know, about whether or not whether or not their racial structures, racist structures at your school and and then we will roll our eyes. We are our heads hurt. We roll our eyes so much like, oh, it's all gone. This is wonderful. Perfectly liberal school. This is Massachusetts. Come on. Stop it. Stop it. Just stop. It's here. It's at Framingham. It's everywhere. You just started in a conversation I had with you described as a humidity. And we described as like a front move. Right. The humidity is always there, but the front moves in. Right, right, right. And the humidity rises. It's just the weather. Right, right. And the humidity is high right now. And it's very high. It's very, very high. And it's sticky and it's tangible and the students sense it and they feel it. But it's not disconnected from our president because our president has said things. Words actually matter. Words really do matter. And the and the people from from whom the words are said. The people who say these words, that matters, too. It matters when when you have when you have an election cycle that was that fiery. And there was nobody to speak calm to the masses afterwards. Nobody. And it's not. I don't know if it's that nobody could as much as I don't think that he or anybody in that I don't think they have the capacity to. And and and so for me, what what what has happened on Westfield campus from racial slurs being written on on which I will say I will say our president and and and and Westfield State in general has have done an incredible job addressing the situation. And this is I mean, it's a hot situation, but I don't know if you can get more direct than then setting up a podium outside of the hall where it happened at five or six a.m. in the morning, evacuating said hall and forcing an assembly of those students who are probably still half asleep and dealing with it. I don't know how more direct you can get with it. And I think he's he's leaped over hurdles dealing with this. This is new. There's something that's different in the air right now. And I think people are trying to deal the best that they can, you know. But this is happening everywhere. Cornell, just go around just Google, check the Google. And so for me, so for me, this this whole comment and I say the word, I'm not someone who likes to casually curse. But I say the word because our president said it. We are in a place now where we have to take our hands and shield our children's ears when he gives public what he gives features. This is ridiculous. What's the state of the union address is about to how many earplugs do we need to put in our children's ears? We we had I mean, you're talking about words matter. We had a pretty we had a discussion about, you know, we put the word shithole on the cover of the Valley Advocate and we didn't do that lightly. That was that just what you're saying about these words and how the president is really setting the tone on this. It almost seems like we're apologizing for him. For to our readers for our president. And I don't think he really deserves that kind of apology from us. I agree with you. And I don't believe in the I don't it's as difficult as it is. OK, so is there let me make a point, make a point, make a make any point. Is there a bridge too far? Are there are there news and news outlets that just because he said it? Well, we're reporting it at all day. The next day is like it was a reason to use this language, very colorful language on. Yes, there is that there is that. Let's not play with each other. We know that happens or so. But I think I think somehow bleeping out. It's not so different from the whole idea of, you know, when my my show is all connected, my 10 little nigger girls, you know, that is the title of this series. But we're very uncomfortable with that word. But that word exists. We're still having battles about this word. And that word existed in history. And at least I'm doing you the favor of editing it with the cross. Yeah. So it's not so different. Why are we editing? Why do we edit what has happened? And in so many ways, America wants to say or tout that it's it's somehow better than China or North Korea, right? Absolutely. And I'm not saying that we aren't. But if we are, one of the first things we should be doing is dealing with our history in accurate terms and not obliterating it and not whitewashing it. Forget the word and not trying to erase portions of history, sanitizing our history. Like, well, the way I remember it, no, the way the way it was. Oh, well, I always love Muhammad Ali. No, you didn't know. Oh, come on. Well, I think that's a natural. Yeah. I don't know. Not for me and not for most people that I know, but it tends to be a natural convention for people to want to make things better, seem better than they were. Yeah. I mean, you think about Roy Moore and when he said that, you know, back in the old days, life was great because even when there was slavery, there was families and they took care of each other. Make America great. Make America great again. So it's this need, this desire to not have to face what is real in terms of race, because we were built on slavery. Wow. It was built. This country was built on the backs of slaves and then to have to live side by side. It doesn't go away. It's a generational thing. People think kids, all millennials are so much better. Now, not necessarily, not necessarily because they're learning from generation to generation to generation from, from their parents, from their grandparents and from the media, because all you have to do is look at anything on television. You're not going to see too many brown faces. So people, I always think that, you know, people like, oh, we've crossed so many barriers. And it's like all you have to do is walk out your door, walk into a boardroom, walk into a classroom, walk into a news outlet, walk into anywhere. It's right there. It's it's right there. So this this whitewashing of history, it seems very natural to me. I studied history. It seems very natural the way that we were taught history even through graduate school. It's it's the social it's the social his social history at that point in time was an addendum. All that really mattered was wars in government. So, you know, wow. So I so I understand completely what you're saying, you know, it's I don't prefer I prefer not to say the whole because that's just me. Yeah, right. You know, we were talking about, you know, but it's not it's not an excuse. For me, it's not an excuse to him. Yeah. For him, rather. It's it's just that I don't see. I don't see it as I don't fault anybody for for for opting not. It's I don't fault anybody for saying it. I'm kind of like, yeah, it's it's it's it's it's I was worried about sharing the article, you know, because it's thank you so much that my picture is the first one that shows up. But it's like it's like my face and then chill. I'm like, oh, this is this is my mom and my dad are going to be very proud. Thank you. Thank you, I'm a dad, you know, but it's just it's just something that but this is again, but this is where we are. This is where we are. This is where we are. We are here. You know, we've always been here. Right. It's just the humidity has risen. Yeah. And I was glad that, you know, you chose me part of the story and that and that you found, you know, some great people. We both worked on it. But, you know, I think that kind of highlighting the positives is kind of a way to to fight against that kind of tide of history and racism and just to show how important all members of the community are and bringing people, you know, and focusing on people who who are whose families have immigrated themselves, they've immigrated to say, you know, one of the things that stood out to me that the people that I participated in my interviews was that this is a country of immigrants, this is a country of immigrants. And even even if you're an Italian American, your your people suffered because of other people's prejudice. Irish Americans, German Americans, it just it's just so fascinating to me. But we can't seem to move past this black and white issue. We can't see we get past it. No. And it's it's dividing. It's it's it's it's dividing. It's fascinating. I do it without mentioning anything about I won't go too deep about where I worship and everything else. But this is it's it is fascinating to kind of watch things in real time to realize that some of these very ideas that are reprehensible, you know, are among people who, you know, who profess Christ or who raise hands up in the church. Your next it's very it's scary and it's worrisome. And so when you go from church to to school, school starts and you're bombarded with it, you know, what do you do? I was given the gift of art to interpret it, but more so to create it. And so I'm hoping that with the the little bit that I can do, I I will not impact policy. There's nothing that I'm going to do that's going to I'm not a politician and I really don't want to be. I don't I don't know. But but there's nothing that I will do that will impact policy. But if we can start having more conversations like this, I mean, the more we start stop erasing and start kind of addressing. I think that this does amount for healing. And the last thing I'll say about this is one of my students on campus spoke to me. She interviewed me to for a paper. She was right in criminal justice student. She's like, I didn't know about Colin Kaepernick and all this other stuff. And I just want to your ideas. It's the white girl. She's so cute. And she was like, and she we're talking, but she was a sweetheart, you know, and we're talking. And and and she's like, how do you think this ends? What should we do? And I was like, I because she was telling me how she went to one of the rallies and and, you know, there were black people there, but they were really angry and they're like, you white people this and and I was like, these black people are terrified right now because they have things written on their door. Right. This is like freaking 1818 hundreds here, you know, and it's scary for black students now. And I told her, I think we all need a little bit of grace. We all need to offer just a little more grace. It's not something you hear any of the news outlets talking about Fox to MSNBC. Nobody talks about grace about the idea that you have to give a little in terms of space and room for people to make mistakes for them to give you a little for the same, you know, and I'm just hoping that the project I'm working on on Westfield's campus between February 5th and 8th will offer not just a platform, but the possibility of grace. I can't wait. I can't wait to see it. Well, maybe we'll just leave it there. And so, yeah, that's that's great. So thank you so much for thank you for coming in. And this is a lot of fun. I think it was fun later. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to visit us at valleyadvocate.com.