 So I find this think I'm supposed to have is it I don't know. Maybe eventually they'll find evidence for the six million Push it that envelope it's gonna work out eventually. What are you guys about to do to me? I know we're gonna make you evil Destroy my reputation. You understand that just by just by associating with us Your oh, yeah, yeah, I'm already dead to certain intimate circles. Oh, yeah Don't have to speak to certain people. Um, yeah, good good good all the guy who hates fat people though That's what you've got going for you already probably Hate fat people I don't don't shoot If they just weren't so lazy and unmotivated It wouldn't be as much of an issue. Hey, what about Jack black? He's like overweight, but he's jumping around a lot of place. He's always doing some crazy kickflips. Oh Yeah He ain't kicking and jumping enough. I mean, that's just he's got to maintain that cuddly ball though. That's just right So look how it worked. Look how it turned out for The other fat guy who is to died That matters it down We've got a couple million space, but I can't see you know his name spelled out If I could I would read it. Yes, I should I should obviously say like welcome back rags Even though you haven't really been gone for very long. You'll be met It feels like you're bugging on forever when you don't have a signal through it's only been like last If I was Monday, and I genuinely feel like it's been ages kind of it feels to me like it's been ages, too And and welcoming of course the nickel CJ the dog who is a suit that's very Advanced of you rags doesn't go on to that boy. He has the classes. That's right. I'm yeah, I'm a nudist on principle Keeping it real Let's keep the classy I feel like I should like I don't know if people don't know for some reason I just assume everyone knows exactly what me and rags No, this is I made a video about fat people and why he hates them. No, I didn't Because everyone agrees with it was a movie celebrating Relationships and he tore it down for no other reason than he thinks people are ugly. It's just They couldn't resist so what is it Sophie Burgess is that a day? So we're Sierra Burgess. I'm gonna remember. It's not really her name. It's not worth remembering. Good Lord. Well, yeah, the movie Sierra Burgess is a big loser. You think it's a bit much to say that it's trying to justify catfishing No, not all Audiences liked it Well, yeah, it was awful and you made a very very efficient review of it that worked to shreds and Well, we were actually planning on Considering how because I remember seeing your plot holes video before that one. I think that the plot holes one came first, right? Yes, it did. Yeah a couple of weeks earlier. Yeah, and it was from there. I was like this guy could be on Then you went and you went and got famous and now it just looks like we're selling out bringing on all kinds of dogs that are Famous, you know ruined it. You've been that cool dude that ate it on Patrick Williams for no reason Yeah, I'm bread motherfucker. Yeah now. I'm selling out. Absolutely You get a little taste of success and then People I make fun of bat people with terrible personalities. There's a huge difference. That's fucked up, dude I know Sponsors at Sherry's berries. I don't even yeah, so I was gonna say there's a couple comments I try and keep track of these things from the last one I I was using a counter example for I was talking about like hate and How me rags and of course Do you want to go by CJ or would you prefer a different person name? I'm fine CJ Chris is fine. Whatever you I'd rather Chris Chris DJ sounds like Yeah, it does you're more less sounds completely normal by comparison. Oh definitely, yeah So I was saying that we all get hate and what seems to legitimize Hate is when you actually do something and I said for example a Kelly Marie Tran leaving Graham and my point was just that everyone gets this stuff But it only becomes like a real thing if you actually react As long as you don't then people just say I mean even if rags left Twitter out of reasons of being a hate Most people would yeah, they should be like yeah, well good riddance thing for us but a lot of people were like she didn't leave because of hate she left because of Well, he's fat. I don't think we ever found out she released Oh, I got audio cutting out. I mean Yeah, that's probably it's probably the bad parts. God One second. I'm sure lower my threshold. Yeah, I thought that I thought that problem a couple of times I've been streaming recently. I mean, I don't like I have to put my mouth right up to the microphone. What's up? No, it'll still it'll still cut out. It'll just be I've got to be loud I would just be fucking weird when it's the it's the noise gate The noise gate. I know it's that it's not set perfectly. It's gate Yes, Ed. Oh my god, how do I fix this? This wasn't a problem before. Oh dear Life itself. It's in some of these knobs up. There's no Oh, I love turning knobs. Yeah, hopefully that's a bit better Down and all around. Yeah, explain this shit and keep my eye on the on the microphone thing on OBS to see Oh, there's a little bit then Stay louder. Oh, all my point was was that people get hatred and sometimes when they do a thing That's when people like see they get hate and a lot of people like Kelly didn't even a boot on that reason as we know Okay, I wasn't really talking about that. Anyway, I don't think being hated on Means you should leave social media. That's just almost down to you We'll have to deal with the mean of you guys. I doubt it. But have you guys ever had a No, well people are always so nice and gorgeous. Yeah And they never take anything that I say out of context and they understand thoroughly all the positions I actually hold who the hell are you interacting with on the internet every day of it called an asshole The furries. Yeah, the furries do like people like us the gay furries All right, I have tuned. Oh, they get the gay furries. Love me. Yeah No, he's fucking see every every street is a different issue like last time it was it wasn't it was like volumes I think but now it's just a kind of I've turned them the noise gate off So now you'll be able to hear breaths and background noises, but hopefully It's clearer Just is it better now? It's nothing to do with me is it oh god. No, this is definitely on my end happened last time and you were near Hey, that's magic. How do you know that? Maybe it did close causation. All right. Everyone's saying is better now Moeller is quiet for everyone, but you oh What I don't know see this the thing I rely on the audience to tell me if everything's terrible or not but yes The last episode actually went a lot better than I expected because I thought since we were going after Joseph Anderson and the subjective train was being pulled into the station basically like More so than the horror film the horror movie video that he made That was shit. Oh, yeah, you did see it Yeah, you dragged me into a car because you're like I want you to watch this whole thing Crystal as well. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and it was awful. What are you guys? What do you guys think? What do you guys thoughts on Joseph Anderson scary video? It's it's scary how he thought it was a good idea to release that oh It's terrible. He comes across as such a self-righteous prick I don't know what you're talking about. We spent the whole e-fab talking about how great it was so Well, you know what fine. I stand by what I say. I Saved that picture of his tweet Yeah, yeah, I can think of that people didn't like that video was because they were they're fucking jealous of my bravery Yeah, that's scary games and not get scared. I mean I'm sorry that some of us have actual human emotion Like what a prick he was getting loads of backlash and you could tell that from the comment section that there was plenty of strong strong arguments But his his conclusion was yeah, they're just The jealous that I didn't get spooked and they did or they're upset or embarrassed. I think the way to use was It felt very rushed which Yes, whatever, you know like he wasn't it does it sounds rushed But it doesn't look rushed because you have to go through all the trouble to get all those clips To cut them up to put them in to save them to find them To get them all in the timeline to have them swap around it takes time to do all that shit And yet at the same time what he said over it felt really like it felt off the cuff for something that was Scripted I assume he's scripted. Hmm. Yeah I'm very very few people understood it. I don't I don't blame them, but that was just he doesn't historically I mean Fringy was pointing this out every time you see like Joe's fans are responding to criticism It doesn't seem to end. Well, like he's he's he comes across quite aggressive. Sometimes how do you lose your own comment section? I don't know This is he lost like 99% of them. That's the weird part like the like ratio was fine Even a lot of his own subscribers were commenting saying this is like the worst video you've ever made Yeah, yeah, there were there was a couple of those but like the the narrative would be you just didn't understand it But he's just like it just stops or starts at the whole like Resurrection is a power. It's like whoa. Whoa. You've already lost me. What do you mean? And it's like he's already moving on you're like no no no no he says a lot of things that require a great deal of qualification and Yeah, and that's the last the weird thing he usually does that's his whole thing He takes his time That's why we can't cover him on this because we can't cover three hour videos. That's not gonna happen But take like a month. Yeah, but he He released and I'm happy for him to continue to release 13 14 17 I don't know what minute videos because He can't cover an entire genre in that time, but you know, yeah, he I actually I don't know if people are aware, but I invited him on to eFap and He said no because I once Well, you see in my soma series I Decided I would have a bit of fun when I was responding to people for the first time in a in a very Comprehensive environment and so I would have an argument and then I throw a little word on the end be it like idiot asshole Autist came up and one of the ones that I used Actually, I kind of remember if I said this exactly, but this is what Joseph Anderson said I said he said that I called him a massive faggot and he will never talk to me because of that Well, he should have thought about that before acting like a massive This is the thing the worst things have been said on eFap by far and Yeah, far better people have called me far worse things And yeah, like I had a couple of his fan base saying that I've I've offended an entire community And I was just like let me check with rags to to make sure is your community offended rags Oh, I thought you I thought you meant Joseph Anderson's audience is like a community. Oh, no, I'm talking about They're talking about the the homosexual community is very upset with me apparently I didn't get the memo It was just one or two guys to the gay people. I know aren't faggots. Well, I mean That's the way that genuinely in my experience most of the gay people. I know use that word regularly So it's just like oh, yeah It's like how you know the blacks use the negro word There you go. It's it's a complicated set of rules online for what you're allowed to and not allowed to say But uh, yeah, he he said that he won't speak to me because of that And it wasn't it didn't seem to be the his principle was you you can't insult somebody and get away with it It was what he was trying to say to me People insult me literally every time someone has insulted me they've got away with it Like what what is not getting away with it? Like I track them down and murder them and bury their body in a shallow grave and a dumpster well You have to commit genocide with every new video. I mean I said that I was absolutely happy to the doors always open That sort of thing but it I doubt we'll see you just fantasy on here unfortunately, but there's another another youtuber I forget the name but uh You he was he was ripping into me along with Joseph Addison and it was like a pierced it by fan base who was like Oh, I like that guy. I was like, oh, he's probably just miss her to said Do you want to have a chat about this stuff and he was like Try and understand why Joseph shut the door on you because I'm doing the same. Oh Yeah, it was be mask. That was it. It's just like, okay I have lost the privilege to speak to two youtubers now guys privilege as as links just said I use no no words and have been banished to the bad kids corner. I will Never be able to recover. But yes, that's pretty much caught up on on anything. That's remotely interesting and we decided because Well, actually, no, this was this was always in our backlog, but you also wanted to sort of cover it, right? Chris was that was that the Your interest well, I wasn't planning on covering it myself But I just remember saying this video and thinking it was really shit And I think since you didn't you know, we were talking about it He didn't invite me on to e-file and I said, oh, what about this video? I think can't remember which one of us mentioned it first, but as soon as it was mentioned I was I was down I was frothing at the mouth was the thing for me because We'll just do full disclosure We thought in prep for this that we would check out the three Sam Raimi spider-man films and all three of us have and Is that just do we have to disclose that like we've done something wrong? Oh, no, I'm actually setting up because this it'll be a fun conversation. I don't actually consider it to be I mean, this is better that a Disclosure and like we guys won't let you know we oh, yeah, we're not just We're not massive Sam Raimi spider-man fans who know the fills back to front. We actually watched it yesterday so all day before sorry, but You know just to get a catch up and I haven't seen them in a long time and First one very solid second one really good third one That's my review But yeah, I don't like genuinely if the second one came out today like in the MCU I'll probably be like oh, yeah This is one of the better films in the MCU you should actually watch this one as opposed to skipping some of the other ones Yeah, I think it holds up. Well today by today's standards in a way that the first and third ones don't Um, and yeah, you know this review. I checked out some of the comments There's a lot of people saying that this is just supposed to be comedy No, it's not so we're dealing with a cinema sins thing here We'll have to figure out what points we're supposed to take seriously and what points are supposed to be jokes That'll be a that'll be fun All right, but we are dealing with worse than you remember and I have to admit The second one was better than I remember on rewatch so it was it was pretty good I mean the first one was good, but the second one was quite good and Then things got worse from there Yeah, and there's probably a reason why this the series ended with three I wonder maybe maybe the video will focus a lot more on the third one or I'm not sure. I guess we'll see Yeah, I think it might be tough to convince us Maybe it can be done, but I think it will probably be pretty tough You guys got any I say I say this as if it's some kind of like Recommendation for bad blood, but have you got any history with with with Cosmo at all or Cosmo? Not at all. No I've seen a couple of his videos and I've not ever really been impressed And I'm not even trying to like shit on him here I've literally just seen about five one of them two of them at the last Jedi won the Force Awakens one Which were both very I Don't know I don't really get it. I don't get it I don't get what how much he doesn't really offer a lot of insight a lot of time He made a huge counter-argument for Mary Sue against ER of all people and I remember watching it just being like well, that was no shit But again willing to give him a chance, you know, I am I haven't found him offensively bad. Just just kind of just me You're welcome to come on to EFAP and defend your honor Absolutely. We an open invitation for anybody who's covered or wants to say something I doubt it'll happen these days with anybody who's I don't know of that position They seem to see it as sort of a I shan't spend my time. I may I'm mainly based in this off. Joseph. I'm saying he's very like Put his put his nose up sort of attitude He's very he's very holier than thou. So yeah, well, um, by the way, he behaves in my what he said he He's he's fucking better than you. Okay. Well cosmonaut. No, no, uh, Joseph. Oh, yeah. Yeah I don't know. I have no idea how cosmonaut would react, but uh, yeah, you both ready. Oh Yes Sam Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy worse than you remember Yep here goes Whenever I post a video at least partially related to Spider-Man I always get vultures flying down yelling at me about how homecoming isn't that good Spider-Man 2 is better Tom Holland can suck my dick. So the other day I was like, okay fine I haven't seen the Sam Raimi movies in a pretty long time. Maybe I need to refresh my opinions a little bit Um, I mean, I'm either no me and rags have both seen homecoming and uh, the three right? Oh, you've not I'm only ever seen both then not seen homecoming. I have no opinion on it. Um, it is a movie in my opinion I'm I'm genuinely not sure which I think is better. I think spider-man 2 might be better Homecoming I thought homecoming was really good though. Um, I know a lot of people hate homecoming So that'll that you know the make of that what you will but I I don't think it's cut and dry that uh All Sam Raimi films are worse than homecoming. I'm not sure if that's what he's saying, but we'll see Well, Mahler likes it. So I think it's garbage So I went ahead I rewatched the movies and holy shit. These do not hold up now. I like to think I have a pretty good I disagree I think I think the first two hold up very well That's the interesting thing when you say hold up it usually refers to a film that was good And is it still good with time put on it? That's usually what people mean by hold up So it's not even fair to say despite my three hold up because it didn't hold up when it came out, you know It's like why would it hold up now? Yeah fair enough. Um, but spider-man 1 and 2 like yeah I'd say they absolutely hold up. There's a campy element. I don't know how much that means it doesn't hold up It's like a comic book Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, that's I think that's the point though Yeah, it's very much. There's a lot of lines and quips that could be like speech bubbles and panels You know that that you would enjoy reading instead of watching in a movie form I think that's kind of what he was going for but it does have that campy comic booky I want this happy go lucky kind of superhero element to it There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of really happy nice superhero moments and uh things just work it out You used an interesting term brags. We watched you so it felt a bit fairy-tale-y at some points Um, I there's anything I know. It's fairy tales. I mean compared to like After the dark night and a lot of the mcu movies. It's a lot uh grittier has the word people use, right? Down. Yeah It's not a bad thing. It's just uh different choices Some of these is like I want a superhero movie to be about like a superhero It runs around saving people and delivering pizzas you know Yeah, I mean people Sorry It was though. That's the thing. That's especially with the second one It was that that dual life that he led was really well. Um, Oh, yeah, really portrayed rather. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not necessarily talking about the personal struggle I'm talking more about the abilities and Uh what the characters can do and like how it ends and things Yeah, anyway, sorry Now I like to think I have a pretty good track record when it comes to my opinions. All right I have a decent following of naive 11 year olds eccentric european weeaboos and depressed alcoholic college students That seemed to like and listen to my opinions, but I wasn't supposed to mean I don't know what that means. Self-deplication, obviously But it's a combo because it was like I think my opinions are pretty solid. I go crazy people follow me But hey, I don't know like I guess just a joke. I don't know just seem a bit weird I'm aware that I'm kind of pushing it this time I'm just saying I think the sam ramy spider-man movies aren't as good as you remember Now I still love these movies all three of them to be exact Yeah, you heard that right, but it annoys me that people look at the first two as some sort of superhero holy grail When they're not like really that good anymore I like the language is so uh, it's like, what do you mean not that you say they're good, but not that good They're great. Are they okay? I don't know. Um What are you uh, what do you think about the voice by the way? Um You know, I'd never accuse someone for putting on a voice, but I think that I could do the thing that he's doing Uh, you know, and you like do that with your voice No, I don't know what you mean Sounds it's like my that was a poor impression because I'd need a bit more time to work on it, but it Like everyone could do that, right? You know the when you do that. I don't know what it's called Like how do you want me to feel? It's like it's like he's trying to give an impression of something or Like I don't know how do you want us? I don't know. I So what just said he's black. That's not that's not something all black people do Oh, is that him in the last clip? Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, that is him, but it's um Oh, well in that case, I hate his video. Oh, is it croaking? Is that what it's called? That is his real voice. Like I said, um, I have no reason to think that it's not his real voice I just find it interesting because it's something that everyone can do if that makes sense Yeah, personally, I'm not a fan of his voice, but that's that's a personal thing. It's just a minor point Rail when they're not like really that good anymore So let's look at all three of these movies and see why they really don't hold up And are kind of a little bit just a little bit of a mess And yeah, I know everybody says spider-man 3 is the worst one But if you ask me all three of these movies are basically the same and I'll elaborate more on that later really wow I couldn't disagree more I disagree vehemently with that the first two It's like the third one was made by a completely different person With a completely different. I mean, it's just it's out in left field compared to the first two I was gonna say it's the first you're so structured and focused the third one is just a mess like it's all over the place Oh, yeah Yeah, to say that they're you know, there's no difference in terms of quality is is just ridiculous Well, let's hear the argument at least god But for now, let's start at the beginning. Let's start with spider-man one fair enough Start at the beginning how original the first thing we're greeted with is a corny narration by peter parker Played by good ol american sweetheart toby maguire And this is the one thing that I hate the most about the spider-man trilogy I I hate toby maguire ever since I was a kid. I never really saw him as my definitive peter parker He's kind of me. I don't think anyone did until the movie. I mean You know, I hate to say it was like that's your opinion man But isn't he meant to be meek and wimpy at least at the start Certainly, I mean, he's yeah, and then he evolves Yeah, I mean, maybe he'll say something a bit more I can't respond to any of those like if you don't see him as spider-man then you don't see him as spider-man. I don't know Yeah, I I like him as spider-man. I like him as spider-man too. I Prefer tom holland because I just I don't know tom holland nails it for me. But um, I still don't really I'd have to hear an argument for why he's not a good spider-man. That's all I'm looking for Tobin McGuire ever since I was a kid I never really saw him as my definitive peter parker He's kind of meek and wimpy and that's supposed to be peter's personality at first But he never really gets over it even when he's spider-man. I still want to kick his ass because he's a huge dork It's you who's out gobby How do you're mine? And some is that all we got? I don't know like again a little cheesy. Yeah, like He's a bit dorky. But again, I thought that was matches the that matches the tone of that whole film As for yeah, he he did say he doesn't really grow like what would you guys cite as uh evidence that he's sort of I think more in the second movie. I think he certainly, uh got a lot of confidence by the end of the first film compared to the beginning Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he holds himself much stronger. He has a lot more confidence Like I said the second film. He's definitely knocked down a peg in terms of the opening is like all about him being uh You know down in his luck his life sucks and spider-man keeps getting in the way of that too, but um Like the third film again, because we're not saying we discount the third film We have to count it the third film. He's he's almost egocentric Like he's super confident Yeah, he's over. Yeah, he's he's letting it get to him himself Yeah, so I'd be like he's clearly his character goes through a bunch of changes. I mean the second one is Very much about I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know where that argument's coming from But that's a weird one. That's because he's a huge door It's you who's out gobby Out of your mind and sometimes toby's performance is just really bad There's some actors doing a really good job in these movies So you really notice when somebody isn't doing that great of a job. Who am I? You sure you want to know? Yeah, also with the mere six minute mark We are showing the greatest character in the entire trilogy. Willem Dafoe as Norman Osborn I'll get more into him later though for now. Let's look at how Harry introduced. Yeah, I think he's good Yeah, and this is so that's a bit confusing Uh, there was there was a comment Sorry, there was a comment that I saw that I was like, oh, we'll have to keep that in mind That said that this video is specifically to highlight the bad So he's not going to talk about the good, but I don't know it seems like he's he's throwing some good things here and there Maybe it's to seem a little bit more balanced. I don't know but like it makes me wonder Is he gonna talk about all the good or just the little random bits that become relevant? I don't know. Um, I don't know Let's let's continue. This is his dad Peter may introduce my father Norman Osborn. Why would you introduce your dad by his full name? That's kind of weird, but is it I mean Isn't the isn't isn't Sorry, because we did watch recently They get out of when they're in the car Doesn't he say like he doesn't even want to be here in that car And he doesn't want to let people know or or or present himself as like a rich person Um, so and and the the dad's And him have a bad relationship Uh, it's even it's even banked on in the third film where he says something like, um He's like your dad never loved you or your dad thought you were an embarrassment. Um, what I'm getting at is He's probably referring to his father as his full name because of the disconnect. It's professional. Yeah It's more professional professional like it's a business sort of uh him and his dad have a bad relationship I'm pretty sure the film's made that a thing. It's not just uh, yeah, I don't I don't think that's unusual at all And also it establishes it for peter because so he's so interested in science. He would know oscorp probably Yeah, he would he would know who the head of that organ the head of that company was Just makes it it's just quicker, you know, and I someone just pointed out it's helpful for the audience too It's just like norman os. Yeah, it's just exposition. Yeah, it's like harry isn't going. This is my father This is the head of the this head of the company norman osborn He said whatever at the end he didn't mean it That's kind of weird but whatever also look at these high school students now I know a lot of movies have people who aren't really playing their age But this is kind of ridiculous. You see this guy that's supposed to be their teacher He's younger than they are Alex jones is younger than will leaton Oh Wow Hang on i'm i'm curious spider-man This is gonna be tough to find because that guy's like bailey in any other film. He's just like teacher person Wait, who's meant to be the teacher? Is it the as in the the black guy? Yeah, the black guy's teacher and the guy in the black jacket is uh That's flash, isn't it? So he's yeah like he doesn't doesn't look that young So flash tomson when i was watching it i didn't Oh, man, how am i gonna find this guy? Oh, tea literally he's credited as teacher Found you all right i'm just gonna find flash Doxxed because i'm curious if if they are actually which one's older so Oh jeez he doesn't have a birthday. I'm sorry this like i'm not trying to say Everyone has a birthday mauler. This guy probably doesn't get a lot of Born i oh so he's 44 years old and flash is 20 24 plus 18 38 30 42 is that right? Sorry. I'm yeah 42 So yeah, the teacher is older Yeah, he's two years older Well, i'd still say that the teacher does look older even if even if he wouldn't even if he's not older I was gonna say i actually thought the teacher did look older Yeah, the i think the teacher looked older as well because when i was watching this scene just the other day with mauler When we rewatched these films in preparation for this video and that's the kind of quality content You can expect from channels like these Is that he he seemed to fit the bill to me and i've seen in chat and i do i do agree The students are a little bit older than they should be like yes the students i would have more Yeah, the students look older than But i mean but they don't but they don't look but they don't look older than peter No, yeah, it's it's all it's all it's almost relative. It's like they're all the same age So you can sort of everyone in new york is retarded Someone said their actors like i mean, yeah To get over i mean so this is another element people being like nitpick. It's like i mean This is probably close to what i would call a nitpick if if he's trying to argue that this is a big problem But i don't i don't know that he is i think he's just casually mentioning it because the teacher which he pointed out He had one line Didn't he just this i think it's two lines like two lines. Yeah But this is that But hey, you know, whatever all right supposed to be the teacher he's younger than they are I gotta say though. I love how every line this man says is whispered and sounds very aggressive and threatening The next person who talks will fill this course Yeah, because they're trying to be quiet i was gonna say is and he's telling them off So of course he's gonna be quiet and harsh What sort of criticism is that duh Of course the teacher is whispering when he's telling them to be quiet I mean, yeah Yeah, that's why when you tell somebody to be quiet in the library, you don't say hey, shut up You say just library, please lord Shut your mouth before I rip your spleen out through your throat Do you know that this is the largest electron microscope on the eastern seaboard? So anyway, peter gets bitten by some brown recluse and then he dies peacefully in his sleep So in the next scene we get the beginnings of norman osborn's Super villain origin story and i gotta say i do like the pacing in this movie for the most part Things go along in a fairly well balanced way You see the beginning of peter's origin and then right after you see the beginning of the villain's origin It just keeps going back and forth. Yeah, something I did feel about the structure of the first film was it was It was almost what I would call classic. It was like very straightforward Bad guy part a bad. Uh, no good guy part a good bad guy part a Good guy part b bad guy part b and it just kept going like that It's it's it doesn't feel like they wasted time and a lot of films now feel like they're wasting time Yeah, like you just have random random scenes that are thrown in for some reason Everything happens when it should happen Yeah, I was gonna say i'm not saying that uh kanto bite is an example of it going wrong I'm just saying that randomly. That's just a random example. I just threw out there Hey, that wasn't that a star wars movie that they say is really bad Star what sorry star star star jars. Oh, I've not seen that one. Sorry jar jar wars The word the word kanto bite just came to mind. I have no idea what it even references look I'm saying is that it puts the can't and this movie bites in star wars kanto bite scene See now that made sense to me if any if it doesn't make sense to anyone else. They're just not listening properly Like how a kanto bite can bite me Excellent rax seems mad that they're taking the project back to form. Oh, shit. Sorry. I think I skipped over. Yeah Let's go back once way. You see the beginning. Sorry. We got started. I can't After you should be getting the villains origin just keeps going back and forth like this However, his motivations aren't really that clear before he turns into a crazy monster person He seems mad that they're taking the project back to formula Back to formula. I'm a dumb dumb internet movie boy So I don't know what that means, but it seems like he needs to get his little science project done really quickly I mean, so my my my take on that is that He's a science person He's got funding for his operation of trying to create a weapon for the military as do his competitors He's not showing results and he's saying yeah, we're totally ready for human testing 100% Which is a which is a good piece of progress. They're like, okay And then his scientist friend says back to formula which I assume means We're going back to before even testing on animals. We're going back to fixing it at the core Back to yeah working on the original formula. Yeah, which is a huge setback When norman lies about how the formula is ready for human testing when it isn't actually He's willing to put things He's willing to do dangerous things or unethical things to further his own goals And to go back to formula means, you know, like they say you have two weeks It's like if they go back to formula, there's no way they're going to be able to Make it in time. So yeah, yeah, his motivation is he doesn't want to lose all his corp. He doesn't want to lose funding Yeah, yeah, and then later on, you know, you know how much I sacrificed and all that stuff and It's alluded to his relationship with harry is so bad because he spends so much time with the company Like he puts the company before everything else in his life Yeah, like I you know, I'm not trying to be a dick It just seems this is very straightforward in the film But he did say that he's not a science person. He missed this like, okay I'm not either but I got it As a as a 12 year old when I saw it in cinema as I understood it I don't understand what's not I remember in first grade English class They it's like these are what context clues are That's your opinion, right? But I can it is my opinion. You know how much I sacrificed It's the right opinion Ah I see what you did there I don't know what that means, but it seems like he needs You're interrupting him right fuck Yeah, fuck this guy To formula I'm a dumb dumb internet movie boy So I don't know what that means But it seems like he needs to get his little science project done really quickly or the army men will be very happy with him Next we see the first scene of what I'm going to yeah, that's it. He's got it. Yeah, that's exactly it So why didn't you get it? Why was that even a I don't understand? Yeah, I think maybe I don't know again People have been saying that this whole thing is for funnies. So I guess that was I think that's a serious criticism of his That's and that's wearing the coat of humor. I don't know what it's kind of mixed. It's kind of mixed in isn't it? Like some of these points are quite obviously jokes We'll have to what we're gonna do We're gonna have to take it seriously and then say but if it's a joke never mind That's how we'll have to do this whole thing It'll be fun, won't it Quickly or the army men will be very happy with him. Next we see the first scene of what I'm going to call corny sam ramy. Shit Why I mean, well in the defense of the movie. I don't know if you guys can see the skull right now I pulled it like right on it apparently but um Uh, he's I'm assuming hallucinating is the point of that He's having a bad dream, isn't he? Yeah, because he's he's dealing with the transformation So, oh wait. No, he's not he's not asleep. Is he asleep at that point? I can't remember You have to be asleep hallucinating. Yeah, you know, either I literally I would just say that I'm assuming He's just losing his shit and he's having all those lines from the person from that spider places running through him But I mean, uh, corny count of sam ramy shit. I should be like, uh, wait corny sam ramy Well, this is I just that's fine. I'm I'll I'd just be like, yeah, okay Yeah, I mean, I the tone of the film is pretty consistent with itself. It is a superhero serial movie that's very happy go lucky almost fairy tale like um, kind of, um Will be a way to say it not, um A bouncy I guess it's just fun Yeah, it's fun. It's it's a bit silly. I mean, I think that's where I'm standing right now But like if I was to say I completely agree with them I was like, is this is this detrimental or is this just fine? I'm assuming it's kind of fine. Like it's okay is right Like it's a couple seconds and I think it works, but you know Because he's just had corny so I'm just like, yeah, sure Does corny mean bad kind of matches the transformation of you know, or osborne with the blue little on the green gas and the I'm evo You know how much I sacrificed It looks like I added those in post, but that's for real This is fucking hilarious and it only gets better from here. The next scene is even funnier Norman goes ahead and decides he's going to be the human test subject and this fucking doormat just goes along with it Oh It's not like he goes along with it Yeah, not only that He's told to by his boss. Yeah, I mean the owner of the company. He's definitely against it. Yeah He keeps saying not to do it yes But I mean the boss is taking all the risk and he doesn't you know He doesn't want his boss to get hurt, but the boss is insistent. So he goes along with it. He voices his concerns Yeah, in terms of like legal like I don't know if I have no idea if there's any reason why he wouldn't be able to test This honest, but maybe it's within his rights. I have no idea like a If the guy could have there might be some technicality that the stock Holders and the members of the board control the intellectual property and the usage of the formula itself perhaps, but I don't know that might be thinking a little too deep into it When you're in a situation like that if you have the Person who is your superior telling you to do something for most people it is hard to resist so I mean, of course, my issue is like, yeah, he does put up a he's like don't do it I can't give you the actual dialogues. I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure he's like don't he's against it He goes he goes through all the tests. He makes sure all the procedures followed. I mean Yeah, he's not like oh, okay. Let's just let's do it. Yeah Yeah, you know Fair enough goes ahead and decides he's going to be the human test subject and this fucking doormat just goes along with it Well, he doesn't just go along. I guess that's the issue Yeah, and it's another example of Norman putting the company and his success ahead of His health. Yeah, his well-being Nip the broken glass asshole. Also. I think this little part is hilarious Well either way the experiment goes horribly wrong and he dies This is a comedy movie. I don't care what any Yeah, is that a problem? I mean, I'm not sure how to react like that that scene. Yeah, it's um, it's dramatic and kind of funny, which Again, Sam Raimi practically perfected that genre with Funny kind of like a crazy person Yeah, I did And he's kind of weird because he's like he's only referencing what I think you could call the parts that you could interpret as comedy. I mean You know, what about all the dratic bits? I don't know I guess again because it's supposed to be like this is why it's worse than you remember It's like I remembered all these bits. I don't know about you guys. I didn't forget Anybody tells me now you guys know the rest I won't nitpick the rest of this first act because that would be way too easy Like I could mention how peter's just gonna walk to school But then the bus just appears and he's like, oh no, wait, I'm supposed to run after the book Sorry, hang on and I'll play the point again. I just thought it was funny that he was like I could nitpick it but I won't you know, I could I could say stuff like this Do you remember the whole um, I can't write at what idubbs called it But it's when it's when leafy would say like I could say that this person's ugly and fat, but I won't yeah But how is that what is there to nitpick about that? It was established earlier in the film that he misses the bus a lot and he was clearly distracted in that scene Let me hear it again. I want to make sure because I'm pretty sure he's actually just wrong on this I won't nitpick the rest of this first act because that would be way too easy Like I could mention how peter's just gonna walk to school But then the bus just appears and he's like, oh no, wait, I'm supposed to run after the bus Like what the fuck you weren't even going to the bus stop. It's your own fault if you miss it now And I'm most definitely okay, so he again So recently this is why I'm pretty sure this is the case but He always walks to the bus stop and then gets on the bus and he was on time this time But he stopped a couple meters back because he's preparing to try and you know caught mj And she's she gets picked up by her friends instead of the bus And so while he's talking to himself about how he was going to actually approach it The bus shows up because he's not at the bus stop. It doesn't stop for him Yeah, isn't that how it works and you are right They said they set up at the beginning that he misses the bus a lot So they don't it's almost like the driver doesn't particularly care about peter is what I got as a impression Yeah, I mean it seems pretty reasonable to me So I just don't understand why he's even mentioning that as a nitpick And if someone was like wow, you're nitpicking this I'd be like but he brought this up Anyway Peter's just gonna walk to school But then the bus just appears and he's like, oh no, sorry I'll try and pause it right there But there was like a sign Let me just see what it says because that would be way too easy like I can mention how peter's just gonna walk to school Uh, is that no parking? Yeah, which does that make sense considering it's a bus stop The sign really means you can't pee here I'm just curious if that's supposed to signify that this is where a bus would stop or something. I don't know It might be further up the road, I don't know But then the bus just appears and he's like, oh no, wait, I'm supposed to run after the bus Like what the fuck you weren't even going to the bus stop It's your own fault if you miss it now, and I'm most definitely not going to mention this unfortunately aged joke That's a cute outfit if your husband give it to you. What if you did make it for him? Would that be so bad? No, oh spider-man. You're pretty homophobic, but one thing that no he isn't So question. I tell racist jokes. That doesn't mean racist. Was that a serious criticism or was that a joke? Yeah, I don't get it. I you can tell jokes about something without it being what you actually think That's how no, I'm talking about I'm talking about cosmonaut now Is he is that an actual criticism of the film that this is a dated joke and it's inappropriate? Or is he saying this just to make a joke? I don't know What's your take on that guys I don't know. It's like he's straddling the line So I can't tell with this guy. I mean, he's he's wrong In terms of the statement that he makes. Yeah, just a joke then. Oh, well you know Yeah, so if if he's serious assuming he's serious, uh, my response would be I think if if if if this wrestler said Uh, yeah, he did make it for me the spider would have been like, yeah, okay Because the idea is that he's trying to upset this man. And so he chooses to imply he's gay Like the idea is the spider-man is like this guy would be upset if I was to refer to him as gay I don't think spider-man has any problem with gay people. I don't think that's yeah I mean as and as someone who's had their tongue on a man's asshole. I'll tell you I'm not offended by it So, okay, there you go rags. It's not offended. It gets the pass from me so we can proceed Yeah, maybe it's a good thing. I'm along if if this is just a joke then yeah fair enough, I guess To this unfortunately aged joke Also, I figure you'd see this joke in any any well, he is well Remember he said that these films haven't aged well I feel like he is using that as a point to demonstrate why even though he's Like he's using it as a joke But it he is using it to fuck up his patient. He's like decipher of his criticism Yeah, I know right now. I think it's legitimate, but he's just dressing it up as a joke Yeah, and there's a couple people in chat saying like yeah spider-man was doing it to piss him off Spider-man. Yeah, it's not about spider-man being homophobic or the joke being homophobic, but um people are saying as well that he's not on SJW uh cosmonauts, so he might just This is this is I love this so you could break it out in so many ways It's like is he referencing how people would be offended by this, but he's he's obviously not is that I don't know. I don't know. We'll just have to move on because I really don't know. It's a joke in the film Absolutely, but he did he did acknowledge that but he said it was a badly aged joke. I guess What if he did make it for him? Would that be so bad? Wow spider-man You're pretty homophobic But one thing that does bug me is the pivotal scene where uncle ben gives his iconic speech Because he's actually chastising peter parker for fighting flash thompson in a previous scene except peter was fighting in self defense No, he said he was going too far. Yeah. No, sorry. No, just no Yeah, that's that's no way between The point is all all ben knows is that peter got into a fight and he dominated the the opposition Um, he really fucked him up And so he says you've clearly changed. He knows he's been exercising in his room That's something that happens in the previous scene I think he says to aunt may that he's he's just exercising leave me alone sort of thing um So ben's concern is that peter is getting stronger and he's using it to beat people up even in self defense and he's saying like The idea that you should know when to use your strength. That's the responsibility you have if you have strength He's not if you remember he clarifies. He's like, um, are you saying I should run away? And then he's like no no no no don't run away And he even says that flash guy probably deserved it Probably coming. Yeah, doesn't doesn't peter say it was self-defense and uncle ben goes. Yeah, I know I think Yeah, kind of just and he said you'll be careful and you could tell that flash is a bad guy because he has random chains on Yeah, so the point the point is not that he doesn't want him to fight back in self-defense The point is he doesn't want to want to slam a guy across a corridor Yeah, don't abuse that newfound power don't abuse the power. Yeah And obviously he was just referencing him getting stronger But for the audience it was like oh, he's it's about being spider-man yeah Uncle ben's like, oh, well you should have done that just because you can beat him up doesn't mean you should But that's true. Just because you should be him up doesn't mean you should it's true. Yeah, true. That's true That's good advice I don't have a problem with that Even even in the context of someone trying to attack you first like they do clarify that and this scene That's kind of a part of it. The scene ends badly. Peter doesn't take the advice well. He finds it insulting But it's it's very very good advice and it's misunderstood because I guess you could say you still live it clunkily. I thought it was fine I just thought that peter jumped the gun with a response and you can tell he feels that way immediately after he feels guilty Shouldn't have done that just because you can beat him up doesn't mean you should so what does peter do with this advice? He spends the rest of his life beating people up the context just don't make no sense What no he didn't know it's not like ben said don't beat people up He said it's about figuring out when it's when it's right to do it exactly The people that spider-man went after deserves to get you know punched and Stop because remember spider-man you remember even ant may says spider-man doesn't kill anybody. Yeah There's he doesn't it's always defense Apart from the third film, but that's about him losing his his morals a bit Yeah, exactly It's very confused by this big because this is quite a critical Moment in the film and criticizing it means this must be a significant criticism. I don't if that is a joke He's just something that is not true Like he's just outright stating something that is not true for the sake of making a joke and then that's just not A joke. I don't remember him saying never use your powers. I don't remember him saying don't beat people up ever. He just says Uh, you're responsible for your power. Be careful. That's that's it It's very it's a very good message as well. There's a reason why this is iconic He spends the rest of his life beating people up the context. Just don't make no sense However on an unrelated note, I think it's time to bring up. Yeah, I don't really get his point there Yeah, you're just wrong. You're just wrong here, man. No sense However on an unrelated note I think it's time to bring up something that I love about these movies and that's the extras I'm serious. Look in the background of any shot and just find a random person You'll get a whole new level of entertainment out of these movies and this movie You'll see background characters that don't give a shit people who have no idea where they are Even main characters have a chance of That wasn't an idle sim. He he was watching his father congratulate peter more than he congratulated his own son And so he walked away defeated and dejected. I mean, yeah, I was gonna say I'd need to see that scene again But i'm pretty sure that is him being sad because His dad appreciates peter more than him. It's not the best example of acting, but yeah, the extras are funny And yeah, and I don't know if that's a criticism. Anyway, he said that he really likes it. I don't know if I I'm this is very I have to admit. I'm a little bit confused in this delivery of this Video I get why people are saying it's just supposed to be funny because it's pretty hard to understand when it's Uh trying to be critical. I feel like I feel like in this case. He's poking fun at the film for Something that can't be poked for that. Yeah So I think it's yeah, and this is the thing. Yeah up until this point. Yeah, absolutely, but the last example not so much Even main characters have a chance of devolving into idle sims when they're not the focus of the scene I don't really have a problem with that by the way Like uh, he's acting there. It was good enough, wasn't it? He looks sad. He looks down and turns away Yeah, I got uh, I got the message. I think everyone who else I I think did fine. He conveyed the point of what he conveyed the point of what that said the point of the scene was His reaction there. Yeah, what he did that was the point of the scene It is it is really bizarre So for those of you who aren't aware by now, this movie has a certain flow to it We see peter do stuff and then we see norman do stuff And then peter and norman meet up again And the whole thing goes on like that until the movie's over and this works mostly because like I said norman osborn Is fucking hilarious. Maybe it's just me but every scene with him makes me laugh He could be doing something completely normal and it's still hilarious to me It's like wolm de foe is an alien pretending to be a human. Oh, he's a crazy villain in the superhero movie That's the point. I was gonna say I don't disagree. Is this a criticism? Yeah, I don't disagree. I think he said he likes this stuff great. Yeah, man. I like it I think he plays the part really well when he does that Because it's like that creepy funny sort of I Well, again, I think he's he's saying this is a good thing. I think he yeah, is he is he using this as a reason to To say why the the films are worse I don't know This is impossible. Maybe we need maybe we need to watch a bit more What a science award. That's terrific. Yeah I am now going to share some of my favorite moments from norman osborn in this movie I like the reaction he has when harry offers peter to work for him. He looks so happy Look at his face. I don't even need to describe this part. It kind of speaks for itself I love how his whole plan to recruit spider-man is to drug him Kidnap him tie him up and have a dad talk with him on a rooftop about how new yorkers are dicks and they're not worth saving Right. I like how he dresses up as an old later in the movie. They are dicks because I don't know if spider-man's a bad person Was that a criticism though? I don't know is he's is he saying like as in he actually likes it or like as in sarcastic Yeah, like so bad. It's good. Is that what he's saying? I can't tell I have no idea Um, I think in the context of this video, he seems to be using it as a criticism. We are worse than you remember Yeah, I thought he's complaining about a villain being over the top and egotistical and I guess it is a little bit cliched but It's That was that was how it was back then You know, I I don't understand his point here It's deliberately vague. Some people are saying it's definitely comedy and you taking it too seriously. Um Was all of this comedy? I don't know There's some legitimate criticisms though. They're actually like Based in some kind of you know consistency, but there's some of this. I'm just like wait what? Lady complete with a stock sound effect Just so he can get the jump on spider-man and then the scene ends with this great line Sometimes he just shows up for no reason. I don't understand is but I don't get it. It's a great line. I think well, I think it works, but I don't know if he's saying there's two camp again. Maybe No one says no to me. Yeah. Yeah, it seems reasonable Sounds like something that green goblin would say The problem is it's difficult to tell whether he's talking about it in terms of genuine appreciation Like it's so bad. It's good or he's saying it's bad Or is he actually saying it is actually kind of good because it matches the character or Yeah, because that's what I would argue. I think it matches uh who osborn is Yeah, I don't think it's a you you can't use it as a criticism of the film Yeah, I mean we'll just have to keep going because there's nothing for us to really grasp here Yeah, sometimes he just shows up for no reason like this jump scare However a character in the uh in fairness in fairness that scene because again watched recently Spider-man wakes up or peter parker wakes up from a nightmare That's what that is and you can tell that the the shot is from this the rooftop where He gave him the speech about new yorkers being evil So you can I absolutely agree it's a jump scare, but it's got context. It's a it's a nightmare Yeah, it's context. It's definitely there for a reason. It's not just random or something I don't know Fair enough However, a character in these movies that I do not like is aunt may aunt may has the worst pep talks in this movie I can't help thinking about The last thing I said to him he tried to tell me something important and I threw it in his face You love him. Wow. She's so wise aunt may is what what was wrong with that I don't know what's wrong with that either. That sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to say The fact is like focus on the fact that you loved him and he knew that you don't need to worry about anything else Yeah, like it's really Also, yeah, how can you hate on aunt may what the hell? Yeah, I as soon as I heard that he was hanging on aunt may. I was like Okay, this gotta be this is better be good. So you've got some great parts in these movies, especially the second We're nearly eight minutes in I don't know what's going on It's where she is all the jokes out of the way just the biggest asshole Oh He was stealing from a bank How is that being an asshole? What the fuck she slapped guys it was a joke Oh, okay. All right, never mind It's satire. It's his opinion. Never mind Because it's a joke. That's funny. That's the it's a joke is the new in my opinion I mean certainly for this video Ow So anywho the second half of this movie hits and you realize that we are now watching A completely different movie and I couldn't be happier Honestly, this movie is so wild and I think that's why everybody loves these movies In the second half of the movie. We're also introduced to the actual best character j jona jamison I can agree with that when I read the comics. I hear his voice in my head Not only is his performance good, but it's like his scenes have a completely different writing staff His lines are legitimately funny in this mr. Jamison. I have to ask what is legitimately funny me I'm assuming just so now he's being serious. Yeah legitimate humor But this is legitimate and this is um a big compliment to the films, right? This is a part. I don't yeah I don't I agree with him. Yeah, I agree one of the first things about the third film was because they tried to like Tone back his character, which was a baffling move But yeah, they give him the anchor control pills and stuff and and He doesn't do a lot of the stuff that I love which is just the the dealing with whatever Crazy new thing has happened with the hero or the villain in the episode Film sorry, but yeah, I guess yeah, I agree with you that this is an awesome part to the films I love these parts are great To the point where I'm pretty sure he's making some of this stuff up Spider-man wasn't attacking the city. He was trying to save it. That's slander. It is not. I resent that Slander is spoken and print its libel. Also. Do you guys remember that elizabeth banks is in these movies? Yeah, no Nobody remembers that to me. So I forgot about it I forgot about it until I watched these movies. I forgot who played the secretary I mean, she's not really that relevant to the film. It's very minor part, but she plays it all right Oh, she's not bad She plays it fine I love her lost and we've never been this lost responding to a video like That scene happens. We get a really good idea of how much this movie has completely lost it Where before the special effects were mostly hidden or just briefly shown This movie is now a CGI nightmare And if you think I'm being mean to a movie that came out in 2002, let's see what a real critic has to say You know, my thumb is down on this movie, but flying through the skies and leaping between buildings He looks like an artificial cartoon character. He moves too fast without the weight and presence of flesh and blood See they even thought it looked like shit back then So leave me alone. This part here always kind of bothered I don't I don't have a problem with it, honestly I mean, it's early 2000s CGI. I mean, it's never gonna be perfect. Let's be fair. Look what they do it It's like a guy on a glider flight around. Um I mean, you know, maybe you could say like, well, they could have hidden it better. It's like, okay um Fine the effects could be better. They could have done a better job there They did the best they could with what they had I think I think they hold up pretty well I mean, I it didn't take me out of the film if it did for you then it did for you, you know But it didn't for me. So I I'm fine with it. I think they hold up Decent decently well. Yeah, I don't know again. I'd be like is this really that bad Also, I don't I don't the appeal to authority fallacy doesn't concern me Oh, well, I guess his point was that he's not just bringing people were bringing up that it looked a bit awful back then Um, but using rodry, but it does make you think like Yeah, so that would that actually wouldn't help his point It would help his point if back then they said it was good well That's actually the counter-argument would be most people did not have a problem with the CGI when this film came out From what I remember very anecdotal Yeah, it says worse than you remember. So if you have a critic saying it was as bad Then as it is now then that doesn't support your argument And all and also to to some extent, I don't think this This completely devalues that criticism, but They they are sort of cartoon characters that they're they're superheroes. They're not necessarily meant to Move around and look like flesh and blood I guess I feel I feel like it adds to the Borderline cartoon you feel that sounds really pretentious. But do you see what I'm saying? Um, well, this is kind of the thing about Oh Bad and good graphics. It's like they're uh, they're surface level So if it if it bothers you it bothers you if it doesn't bother you it doesn't bother you You can absolutely call out bad CGI, but this is why when I reviewed black panther I think I had one line for the bad CGI because I was just like, you know There's gonna be people out there who just aren't bothered like because that's how CGI goes like And you know, do I think it's bad in the 2002 film where there's a man flying around on a glider throwing bombs and missiles like, um For its time, I think that's it's solid. I don't know I just I just don't Know how legitimate it is criticize a film based on its CGI based on today's standards Certainly. Yeah on today's standards. This is why it feels a little bit unfair. It's just like, okay. And and again I I wonder Uh, how much of this has ruined the film exactly? I don't know. I'm assuming that's that's what he's saying because It's completely subjective, isn't it? Yeah, like I I don't really have a problem with it, but Fair enough, you know Third me too. See goblin has these fucking bombs that turn people into skeletons Yeah, for real. Anyway, he throws it at this balcony and harry. Well, I mean, it doesn't turn them into skeletons so much as it gets rid of everything Fake prizes or whatever Yeah, I mean, he's a bad guy. I'm surprised he never uses it on spider bad considering You need to watch this this sentence in its entirety though He makes him he's making a more general point. Okay. Okay. I'll rewind the bombothered me too See goblin has these fucking bombs that turn people into skeletons. Yeah for real Anyway, he throws it at this balcony and harry and mj are also on this balcony Like they're right next to each other But the bomb only kills these people not only kills them it fucking vaporizes them But why didn't mj get hit? She saw it happen. She literally watched this happen right in front of her That's a fair amount of distance. Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're up. They might be out of range If I was to criticize this myself I would rather go for the fact that green goblin doesn't seem to use this technology on anyone But these guys even though he has a lot of times where he could and uh, it's a very amazing technology It's like wow, you couldn't vaporize like flesh like that's pretty amazing But um, wasn't he trying to kill them specifically as well That's true and and add it to the fact that it's like this is a movie's fiction They can literally just say it didn't affect it because she's out of range simple as that Yeah, like the reason he came there at all was because they would be there But uh, yeah, someone else said it could be a directional bomb. It's like I I I'm not yeah That was one of my thoughts actually, but it doesn't look like one. But again, that's that's pure speculation Yeah, if she was right next to them, I would agree but she's far enough away Um for me to believe that Yeah But she's fine. I mean, maybe you gotta be like really really close to it I don't know now. I'm gonna show you guys a brief clip and it showcases exactly why I love this movie And why I think this movie is a huge joke Everything that this movie symbolizes in my mind is in this clip Hello my dear This clip has everything That is that selection of clips man. That is so Comic book, you know, I think we need to let him explain though. Yeah. No, absolutely. I'm not actually criticizing him right now I'm just appreciating that selection myself. I'm just oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's totally it's completely comic book I love it. Just it's spider-man. He's like, what? Spider-man This clip has everything Oh, it's uh, it's that's that's the part where you know stuff like that I was like, yeah, this film is definitely a campy, but I don't know if it's a criticism Um, I'm not saying he's saying that I'm saying I'm saying that I don't know if it's a criticism that These things exist because would you attack the uh, the old Superman movies for that? No, no, I think that it's inappropriate as weird as that is to say this clip has everything Goofy ass willem de faux acting screaming women, which sam ramy loves by the way, but I'll get into that later and hilarious extras I did not edit that clip to be any faster. That's just the pace of these movies This festival scene is just really a masterpiece. I can cut out five seconds at any point of this whole scene And you have unintentional comedy gold I surrender Oh boy, so the scene ends. I love that. Do you don't love that? It's not kind of the point. Good. I love it Like it makes me feel like ah, so it's just the asian guy back there Is With a nice one to punch first we get one of the funniest lines in the movie He's insane as well by the way, this is a comic. Yeah, this is a comic book movie. He's also insane Well made again spider, it's like pokemon. It's like come on, man Yeah, the scene ends with a nice one to punch first. We get one of the funniest lines in the movie And then peter parker kidnaps mary jane and the crowd cheers him on for doing this Oh, um, he saved her life if you missed that part He um, he saved her life. That's probably and he's gonna just drop her off He drops her off in a park. I think instead of you know, the the dangerous area in which the rubble is falling Yeah, just He could have dropped her off close or sure, but but yeah, he kidnapped it It's supposed to be funny I'm sure if she asked to bring him back to bring her back. He probably would have done it because it's peter parker You don't think she needs to like go to the hospital because she was trapped under fucking rubble and people have also Pointed this out before but that's obviously a mannequin in this But the balcony was at an angle. I didn't yeah, I didn't I didn't know she was trapped under rubble I thought she was just I don't think she's hurt at all You don't think she needs to like go to the hospital because she was trapped under fucking No, I'm pretty sure it's literally just that it's falling and it's angled. So she's kind of like She doesn't want to move It's like you wouldn't want to move in case it actually makes it fall that sort of thing yeah Rubble and people have also pointed this out before but that's obviously a mannequin in a spider-man costume And her hair is blowing in the wrong way. Anyway, let's look at more goofy scenes out of context. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'll give them that No masks are the theme This movie is so fucking funny Again context. He's uh got the second head in his head And uh, all the masks are obviously it's the greek goblin mask represents his other personality. I don't know again Just seems okay fine. Yeah, there's a lot of masks. I mean even when he talks to the green goblin at a time He's taught. He's looking at the mask Also, we nearly uh feeling who he truly is and we nearly halfway through the video And he hasn't even talked about spider-man two yet like oh shit. You're right or three I mean, do you guys feel satisfied with how much he's covered of spider-man one so far? I mean if they were better, I would feel more satisfied. Well, I was just gonna say like there's a lot Ah, it's about the purpose of this video again. Is it like is he only covering the bad? But he's covered the good several times. So he's not covering all of the good. I don't I don't know. Yeah, I think a lot of us most of his Points seem to be that the tone is consistently what it is Consistently inconsistent No, it's consistently consistent I'm talking about I'm talking about cosmonauts tone not the films. Oh, no, he hasn't really said anything Aside from, you know, the mannequin thing. He hasn't really said anything about why the films are worse than we remember Yeah, there's a couple of points where I'm just like, you know, that's That's fine. He makes me he makes me like the movie even more that he points them out He's doing the opposite job He makes me go, uh, that was a good part wasn't it the point of the video is to say the movies aren't flawless But he still really likes them. You guys are too eager to tear it apart line by line Um, the title is worse than you remember Yeah, I don't know about that man and and a lot of these criticisms are literally inaccurate Literally in the literal sense. Yeah, he's saying things that just aren't true. So And I I don't really think see that seems like a bit of a cheaper defense to me It's like, leave me alone. I could do what I want. It's like, well, I mean I'm since he well, yeah, again going back to Roger Aber. He brought him up to support his point um You know, it doesn't to me that That gives me the impression he's trying to make a serious point Yeah, well, there's a again the tone is so confusing I don't know when to take him seriously But he's definitely been accurate a couple of times and if you're gonna throw it all away as every time he's inaccurate He's doing it in favor of a joke You are literally using the defense that is used for cinema sentence for cosmonaut variety hour Which I'm assuming anybody who's a fan of him would say he's much better than cinema sentence Correct He said that his links in the chat said his criticism is this is so silly But he never states why this is bad or detracts from the film Yeah, I'd agree with that. In fact, he seems to praise it What do you guys think about this clickbait argument that it's essentially just clickbait? Oh Like the title is clickbait and the video itself is not really the title So far if the if the film ended here, I would agree If or if this video ended here Then I would agree But we'll see where it goes. But so far I'm kind of getting the clickbait vibe Oh, his other side. He's making the points. He's making do not line up with the title. Yeah Yeah He seems to be doing the opposite in fact. Oh his other video. I actually haven't watched Uh, any of his other videos for a while. Are his other videos like this Uh, would you mean like for clickbait or do you mean sort of format as in like if when he's criticizing a film or he's analyzing it Is it serious or is it jokie? I don't know. I've always thought he'd make serious points. Uh, I remember getting sent his video explaining why Uh, ray wasn't a Mary Sue in defense of the force awakens back before I was making reviews or But sorry before I you know people started watching my reviews before I went up to a Uh, uh, the last year I came out obviously, but I remember seeing it and being like, well, that's not a very good argument And if the whole time he was just joking then I'd be like, huh Um, interestingly enough Kira the renegade said in champ that ebert also said spider-man 2 is one of the best superhero films, but Yeah, that's not going to be relevant. I don't think he's going to bring that in like Yeah, we'll see but if that's the case we'll have to see yeah Yeah context I'm right here This movie is so fucking funny. It's pretty clear that this movie is the goofiest thing to be put on film in the year 2002 I mean the climax has the villain literally holding the love interest in one hand And a metal box of children in the other superhero movie man comic book movie This is so what he's pointed out is a very consistent set of of criticisms in that A lot of them seem to just be that this film has a tone and it's sticking to that tone That's what i'm getting Yeah, that doesn't make the films worse. No, I Are roasted this guy and I can see why He kind of did yeah, he responded to him in um, his tlj video. I think which was interesting He basically just counted the um, he counted the counter for rey being a mary sue, which That's just an ongoing criticism for some reason like people just don't don't agree with that a lot of people don't And spider-man has to pick which one he's going to save If something this stereotypical happened in a superhero movie today, there would be public outcry about um He was going to make a choice just to save something or something else. I'm pretty sure they still do that I mean, you know a lot more about the Marvel movies than I do like does that kind of thing still happen or is Is there something similar to this? I don't know if you'd get something as as blatant No, it's not as blatant and specific But this is the thing is that this kind of a thing in the movie Matches the rest of the movie and I'm not saying that just because it's consistent. It's good But you can't really fault the film's consistency. Oh, yeah, someone just said it happened in the dark night. Yeah, it happened in the dark night Yes, exactly. Yeah, you can't you can't say this is any different the guys like choose between this many lives Like it's dark and it's darker and grittier, but it's the same basic choice I mean, this is the thing I felt like I didn't even need to get a reference It's like the idea of heroes choosing between saving one or the other of a thing It's like that's that's that's the point. What's wrong with that? I think that's good So Bernard and chat said his point is that now that tom holland is spider-man people act like these movies are masterpieces This is to show that these movies aren't as good as people say they are But is he making that point? Well, then he shouldn't have called it worse than you remember He should have said they're not flawless or not flawless just that Because I you wouldn't have catch any disagreement from us about them not being flawless But the thing is He's pointed out flaws that aren't flaws a couple of times Yeah, he's saying things that aren't true And I still don't think it's fair to judge this film based on modern Cinema standards of superhero movies because superhero movies have changed over time And this this helped establish them in the first place He someone else said he's trying to say they were they are worse than remembered not bad But he's not making that point. He makes me think they're great I'm not even sure what his point is It's very confusing. So is he meant is he meant to be arguing against nostalgia then? If you if if I watch this video and you hid the title from me and I had to guess the title I would assume that this is in praise of spider-man one Or the value the value of you know superhero camp Like I would think that this is a praise film Or a praise video He did he did start this off with reference to homecoming right? He said that everyone keeps telling him the spider-man 2 is better than homecoming I'm just going to put it out there homecoming has flaws too Like this is again why I said that I probably picked spider-man 2 over it I think the spider-man 2 is actually Stronger in terms of construction. It's a complicated thing to break down But I mean if that's his point that these are worse than spider-man homecoming then even then I'd say that he's uh He's going Is if he's trying to seriously argue then his arguments don't work And if it's just a joke does it work then? It's just a joke. Yeah It's just a joke then We're just giving you all content I guess But if he's trying to compare the two movies Then I hope there's a comparison. I genuinely believe if we had him here right now He would say no, I was just trying to say that these films have a lot of things that people don't seem to Acknowledge maybe I think that's probably what his position is Maybe but I'd just be like well if we'd gone through the video with him We'd be like you realize that for example, uh, peter was probably getting to the To the bus stop and you'd be like, yeah, okay. Okay. I doubt you'd be like it was just a joke But um, you know, this is the thing everyone can make mistakes. It's all right We're all good. This stereotypical happened in a superhero movie today Though I still don't get this point at all coming back to this You know like it's so fucking strange that he's had to choose between the love of his life and several children It's almost like it's something goblin would do. It's like he's criticizing the movie for being made Doesn't it was correct me if i'm wrong It doesn't goblin actually say this like he actually says something along the lines of like you never know when Someone's gonna give you a crazy choice like this or something like that like it's very tongue-in-cheek like the film is very aware Yeah, like green goblin is aware of like superheroes You know because you're early on in the film he talks about you don't want to be the good guy superhero You want to be the bad you want to be the supervillain with me Hang on someone said he explains the amazing spider in his amazing spider-man review. He explains this video We'll uh, we'll play that after we're done with this one just to see what he says I've got that ready Public outcry about how silly it is But to top it off you get the funniest line in the whole movie and I mean it out of everything I've shown you guys This line this one's the funniest one now Oh, I thought it was the other funny. No, no this one takes the cake I have memorized this speech It is truly iconic to me as one of the greatest and cheesiest superhero movie monologues Spider-man This is why only fools are heroes because you never know when some lunatic will come along with the sadistic choice Let die the woman you love Or Suffer the little children Truly a masterpiece as a regular superhero movie. I'm gonna give this a six out of ten. So you that was a criticism, right? I think so Also six out of ten. Hmm. I I mean, I'm not a huge fan of numbers just because you never know what they actually mean But I'd probably go higher than six personally. Yeah eight minimum But I guess that's it for spider-man one All right. Also, what does that mean that he's actually throwing reviews at the end of them? You know like As if he's as if he's talked about the pros and cons already, but he's already really talked about the cons like a two pros I In his cons were mostly not But yeah, okay, I thought this was a I would have assumed that this was an in praise of spider-man one video So, okay, so if his video is not a hundred percent criticism How what criticisms has he actually mentioned that would reduce it from a ten out ten to a six out of ten? Let's say Yeah, because this is interesting you got in chat. It's like this was not criticism um Six out of ten is positive. Y'all just seem to want to disagree with everything he says. We've agreed with them several times So yeah, we've agreed with that. That's the thing. We're agreeing with him on a lot that he says But he seems to be taking those things as bad or I'm mostly confused if if I saw this on my own and It was irrelevant of like analysis. I wouldn't know how to react to this. I just be like, I guess He's saying it's got camp which I agree which it does and that makes the film great Oh, people are saying it might be a yms reference What just him putting a number on the end casually because yms does do that Oh, maybe That sums up all we have. No, well, we don't know do we But I'm considered now because we're about to jump to just fight about two Man, we have spider-man two in three. He's been half on he's been half on the first one I mean, I hope he's gonna go over the worst and the best in this next time but You catch up on super chats. I'm gonna use the loo and get a Very very good. Yeah me too, man. Me too. I will I will talk to my wonderful audience Oh god, I saw this already all the movies are basically the same get ready for a good time It's gonna be three hour or five hour sash. Love y'all. I don't specifically know how long we're gonna take but um Yeah, this video is a little bit confusing so far. I give this f to pay respect to your twitter rags Oh, I mean, I'll let him know when he comes back. Have you guys seen any of shammy's videos? I I think I saw his ukulele one If he if he made a ukulele no, I saw his no man sky one Which he's made more than one of I think but um I'm aware of shammy. I think I just want to say I love you guys. Hope you all have a great day and weekend Thank you james for the $100 again. It's very generous of you. Um EU approved of disney fox merger sony keeping spider-man and the guy who created disfigable me as rebooting shrek is the world ending What happens if sony keeps spider-man what happens to the tom harland spider-man does it go to sony? I'm assuming nox part of the mcu. I have to see what happens with that Greetings dear sir. It's from austria. Thank you for for the great content It's only three of us, but I mean maybe you're talking about wolf as well I watched all your e-faps and learned and laughed a lot Your even bridled rages were great and lengthy stars ones were We're half Oh, there's a second one informative interesting and eloquent. Please tell wolf. He's missed and I hope he's doing Okay, yes, you were his friend wolf and I will let him know. Thank you very much And um rags. You'll get your own sc in your next stream. I'm not sure what sc references I'm afraid if you like this guy's ramy trilogy video. You should see his mcu videos where he has to say about civil war Oh You guys know how much I like civil war. Is that such a wise idea? Probably not Um captain midnight did a very good rebuttal to this that would be interesting to see um considering I'm curious if captain midnight got the same criticism that we're sort of getting here about like Taking it too seriously. I don't know Because I don't know what to take seriously I just like homecoming because it misses a huge part of spider-man's character and story There aren't any consequences high top films makes a very good video on that subject Anyway, I want to say I love you rhino milk I will have to check it out because I did like homecoming quite a bit Um celebrating my birthday so I can't stay for long but I wanted to say hi. Hello maveross um I needed this podcast just got weird my brother was finally deployed to japan for the next seven months. Thank you Anything to make you guys feel feel feel good if it does that that's that's great. Obviously We are we are laid back, but um, you know, it can't be critical sometimes. So hopefully it's just entertaining Deliberately bad criticism is still bad criticism. Yes, but nick. What if they say you're not supposed to take it seriously It's there's very confusing rules on that one. I mean, this is the same thing that happened with h-bomber guy. I um I said that I would Sort of take things seriously And if they were a joke then the audience would recognize that and we could all move on Because I couldn't tell because h-bomber guy has a very specific delivery, which Hmm confuses me as to sometimes whether or not. Uh, that's that's the that's the case. So I let the audience try and figure that out I suppose Longing rusted 17 daybreak furnace nine benign homecoming one freight car mauler Are you ready to take on the capitalist machine two years later? Hello everyone and welcome to our review of star wars I It's gonna be less than two years, but It's coming. It's definitely coming. I mean, then again, I'll have a review of the new star wars in two years probably so Maybe that's still accurate Boohoo the superhero fiction about a guy who can literally move faster than a normal human is fast That is how we get shit superhero films. I mean This is the thing we've sort of made a few arguments in favor of how he's sort of ignoring the tone and format Um, so I think that it is kind of relevant Because if you look at the dark night Criticisms of camp will be far more suitable considering how seriously the film takes itself while this film is obviously, um Not s equal super chat that makes sense. I'm uh, I sorry. I missed that This dangus face takes the intentional campy tone and mixes it in with actual criticisms of the movie This vid is some cinema sins level shite. He had some good videos, but this ain't it chief. Well That I mean, well, I'll I'll reserve my judgment until we get through the whole thing As a fan of both of you law and cosmo, this is my two cents He generally is quite jokey and he's done a series of videos called why it sucks of which this is one Also, he's a massive spider-man comic nerd this is in a oh So is is it arguable to say that this is a video trying to explain why it sucks Or is it doing a poor job? I was gonna say I don't know but fair enough Superman in kingdom come when in exile luke in tlj when in exile trouble pass both get a visitor guess Which one actually rises to the challenge Obviously luke with his projection. I mean I mean it is make an argument without it being old. Okay. Well luke was old It'll be point number one only hipsters would hate rabies trilogy rabies spider. I maybe love new york city I cry every time. I mean, I still love them Maybe not the third one, but I still love the first two. Absolutely. Yeah um So, yeah, nice and caught up is Is chris back or is he? Oh, maybe Beautiful just got just got back. Are you guys ready to I I used the luke I had some I had a strawberry break because I'm a massive faggot You can't speak to rags now Uh, yeah, I can't talk to rags anymore Because I'm so sorry Um, but yeah, uh, let's let's get to it But as a comedy tens across the board, baby comedic gold Don't tell harry I was that funny. So now we've arrived apparently. I don't know. Oh, why was that funny? I think that was I thought that was kind of nice that that was his last words Don't tell harry, you know like he does kind of care deep down He doesn't want harry to think of him that way. I don't know maybe He added a loft track which means It's funny. Okay. How is it? How is it? Oh, fucking hell So now we've arrived at the citizen cane of spider-man movies or so people say spider-man 2 Point one. That's the one I have. I'm sorry. Now. All the point of this video is to bring up the crummy aspects of this movie and kind of laugh at it So he just said the point of this video is to bring up the crummy aspects and laugh at them Isn't that what he just said or maybe Um, let's double check spider-man 2 Point one. That's the one I have. I'm sorry. Now. All the point of this video is to bring up the crummy aspects of this movie and kind of laugh at it I gotta admit that it's 100 undeniable that this is the best movie out of the trilogy It's way funnier than the first one. But just to clarify so it is that he's bringing up criticisms And he's laughing at them. That's what he's that's what he said, right? Yeah, right So that's confirmation I guess yeah, but the stuff he's bringing up is not a criticism unless that was a joke too. I don't know. Yeah This is a joke exception It has some good emotional moments and it's pretty exciting to watch But it still has dumb shit. So let's start off with another peter parker narration. Who am I? I'm spider-man giving a job to do Bleh now I would run through this movie scene by scene like I did for the last movie, but this movie's Uh, do you guys think that he went through it scene by scene in the last movie? No, because it was only it was less than 13 minutes Not only that but he barely mentioned a hell of a lot of stuff. There's probably some criticisms. I'd say he's with, um He he's gone over, but he's missed. I don't know fine. Yeah, go through it scene by scene if that's what you call this Kind of hard to do therefore And I'd also be here for a really long time I'm trying to go to bed. This movie follows a little bit of a formula But not the same one as the last movie in this movie everything revolves around peter parker being shit on And I know shitting on him is kind of half of the whole thing about being spider-man But that's exactly my point. It should be half of the story Rewatching this movie is really frustrating because everybody is an asshole Mary jane is an asshole amp may as rude as fuck harry is the biggest piece of shit ever Yeah, harry's the only one I'd say that I actually have a minor issue with but the rest of them there's So this this is a big of a bit of a fundamental criticism. I suppose of His his process here the chat said I miss wolf denying the holocaust Fuck sake wolf shall return. Absolutely. You just gotta I mean Give it until next year. Sorry. I'm not edgy enough guys Gotta gotta crank it up. Chris. You got some competition for edge. We'll take care of that Um, yeah, I was just gonna say so The problem is he just skipped over it with like, oh, they're being a dick. They're being a dick. It's like, okay so context-wise You've got he tells aunt may the He had a hand in the death of uncle ben and um She's got like severe money problems. Like she's going through some stuff She's not just one dimensional in this film And then you got mary jane whose is this the one where she's getting gradually more Upset because uh, spider-man life takes precedent. No way. What's what's because that's the that's the one in the third film The second film the second one. She's dealing with the fact that she's struggling to become an actress, right? And she keeps yeah And uh, peter's not sort of doing enough Uh, you know from her point of view to to be a friend like he's supposed to be our best friend But he keeps missing her show. Oh, yeah Yeah, and that's and that ties in with the film of spider-man keeps getting in the way of his life Is the point. Yeah, and yeah, so I don't even know you what's happening She doesn't know he's spider-man. She just thinks he's a friend average dude and he keeps failing her as a friend, which Upset me Yeah, this is kind of what i'm getting at and the thing with harry for me was he felt very one dimensionally he only ever talks about How he just wants to kill spider-man spider-man spider-man and it's wish that we got a little bit more um I don't know a little bit more balance, but obviously in the seamery slabs peter. He is drunk. So Yeah, and some of the other characters like they if they are being asked towards him they have reasons Like the the pizza store owner Lost money and peter, you know because he didn't make the delivery So he wasn't being an asshole. He fired him for for not doing and again It was because of spider-man in the opening Yeah, he says something like he's late because he did he said there was a disturbance He says something that implies he was doing something spider-man related. I think Yeah, I mean if there were a few characters who were being really really nice to him at the same time it would be very jarring Because the whole point is it's meant to be tearing him down I mean his relationship is repaired with uh without may and mj by the end of spider-man 2 Um, he's confident. He's he's victorious. He does save the day like to me What i'm saying is like as much as he goes through some rough stuff He does come out on top and everything resolves By the end, yeah, yeah But um, sure. Let's let's keep going. This movie is just Unrelentingly mean the first thing harry says to peter in this movie is hey your friend spider-man killed my dad And I fucking hate you. That's kind of important though Yeah, that's kind of important though. It's not just important, but it's like it's not that clunky I don't know. I guess that's a joke again, but he is also. It's not literally the first thing he says Isn't it if I remember correctly again? I kind of want to watch the scene, but um he's like You know The job gets brought up that he's been fired and he says like I still got the other job and then he's like Oh, yeah taking photos of your buddy like Yeah, which is obviously a point of contention It would be out of character for harry to say anything but that if he said something like yeah It's really great that you take photos of spider-man. It would be like why why is he saying it like that? Yeah, it's it's a natural uh What to say progression A segway whatever like it feels natural. He doesn't just randomly bring it up And it is very important that he brings it up at all and there's a thing. He's holding the grudge Very strongly because if you remember just before his dad died is when they connect the most Yeah, that that's not being an asshole At all like his dad got murdered In his eyes We're talking about other stuff and then he's like no, but seriously. I really hate spider-man. I hate you And this is why uncle ben died every chance harry gets I mean I'm just gonna write that off as a joke. I have no idea what he's trying to say with that Yeah, I'll write off his joke. He talks about how spider-man killed his dad Even when spider-man saves his life in the beginning of the movie. He doesn't even skip a beat. He's just like This doesn't change anything God damn. Are you killed his dad? Yeah, he's he's filled with vengeance. He killed his dad like he's I don't know This is the thing is I actually blame peter more for this because he just doesn't take the time to break it down for him But I guess it's Difficult being that he's spider-man as opposed to peter parker. That would be the and obviously he's busy at many of these moments And plus his voice sounds like peter parker He's like oh hey, that's true. Yeah peter. What are you doing? Oh my god. I'm spider-man I didn't kill you dad Okay I'm dude. You are really petty. It also doesn't help that james franco's acting is kind of shitty in this movie I'm ruined I have nothing left except spider-man. And then we have ant may who nags this Yeah, I mean I I I'm not one that's going to defend James franco's acting in these movies or or attack it. I think it was fine personally. I don't know about you guys I think overall it was fine. That's that example. Yeah, that would be a good example of his He could have done better. They could have they could have reshot that Yeah, I think sorry except spider-man. Oh, do you want to say something? Yeah, I was just saying I think sometimes he does have his very weak moments Um, and yeah, they should have done reshoots, but overall I do think he's he's good with what he's given Yeah, I think again, I just say it's fine. But again, he's brought it up as like a thing and I'm like, okay I agree And then we have ant may who nags the shit out of peter parker in every scene that he's in she abuses random people Whoa Okay, so this Me and rags are gonna be able to recall this because we actually laughed our asses off of this bit So the context is They want a loan and aunt may is saying look, I'm you can trust me. I'm bringing him money I'm teaching piano again And peter is that's a lie to try and get the loan and peter looks her and goes you are And she wants to kick peter to be like shut up, but she kicks this guy instead That's dead Yeah, it's funny because the guy's like ow and peter's just looking confused like what's going on It's a mistake. Yeah Yeah, and also he he showed a clip of that earlier scene where she insists on giving him money because she knows that he needs it Which is a great scene by the way. That's not nagging That's not nagging. I actually kind of want to rewind to that Look, there that scene is great because a richer person could give more but they could never give as much Yeah, and she wants to take care of him regardless of her own circumstances. That's Yes, that's the point of the that's that's the point of her character Um, I might be in I might be in some dire financial straits at the moment, but this is your birthday Yes, it comes across as like there should be there should never be a time where a parent can't give the the kid A birthday present. That's what it comes across as to me And she gets really upset because she doesn't like elements of this film That's the thing it's really like I I would actually say it's one of the best moments in the film We're out may breaks down because she's got so little money That giving 20 dollars to the person that she's supposed to look after is is considered like a bad move and she doesn't want it to be that way She wants that to be So yeah, I don't I would never consider that nagging. It's just a great scene Parker in every scene that he's in she abuses random people Ow and in the most egregious instance of mischaracterization She makes peter feel more guilty for uncle ben's death at a crucial point in the movie. Peter is like hey aunt may It's been eating me up inside. I basically caused uncle ben's death I didn't know how to tell you and i'm so sorry. All I want is forgiveness And she's basically like Wow, your piece of shit. Okay one. She doesn't say that she just walks away At all she doesn't say that at all two if you told me you killed my wife And you didn't tell me for two years. I'm not sure how I would take that no matter what your relationship is to me Yeah, that would take some processing I actually think it was really well done because she doesn't do the stereotype thing and just go It's okay, peter. We love you. She just walks away because it's it's beyond shocking and if you remember in the third film She says the uh, can you believe uh, I would have been married to uncle ben for 50 years today or something like that She was very much invested in that man. He meant a lot to her so Gonna have to disagree with that take And I think it's even more powerful because she's constantly giving him support and she is constantly being the nice one but Something this has made her walk away a little bit. Yeah, it's the shock of the situation It's not her being an asshole and she comes back from it. She says You know, it's important that they stick together and the the other ones around is it's it's okay It's just she needed time and it's again Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't she say that it was brave of you to tell me? Yes Yeah, she does This is what I mean the spider-man 2 is strong. Like it's not just it's a neat film It's like I I I was happy to admit. It's like there's a lot of good writing in here. Like I was impressed um But yeah, no if you sell it this way if it as she says he's an asshole It's like I don't remember that but okay. It's just a joke guys Bye and then she just leaves she leaves him there exactly comes back and she is fucking distraught She's in shock and she's conflicted and she's strut and she doesn't know what to think so she walks away Yes, she walks away rather than say something hurtful She doesn't know what to say. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, you do remember he literally says It's because of me that uncle bed is dead. I let the robber go It's like whoa That's a huge that's something huge to take it. Yeah Yeah, I don't know how to react to this other than just no Leaves she leaves him there Even when peter comes back and he tries to talk about it again, you know to get some closure She's basically like well you fucked up, but whatever that is. That's not what the Well, it is and it is Aunt May in the films at least I think because yeah, she she's genuinely the nurturing The kind one the one who will always forgive anything and she's come back from that shock and said You know what? It's okay. It's water under the bridge. You made a mistake, but it's best to move on Isn't that isn't that like one of the best things you can say in that situation? Yeah, and besides she's saying that as she's packing up because she wants to move on literally move on Yeah, the house is like she sees ben As the house that she's had for so long. She wants to She needs to move on and that's what she's trying to do and part of that moving on is forgiving peter Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't disagree with anything you just said. Yeah, I think that's exactly what the film is going for Not a strong take But whatever this is not aunt may and it makes me really mad But even though aunt may has the worst scene and she's one of the worst characters in the movie Can we just pull it for a second? What does he mean by this isn't aunt may does he mean it's not comic book in the comics or just in Lying with the rest of the films I'm I don't know I do not know. I'm gonna assume comic books. I don't explain at all Maybe it's maybe he means the one from the first film But I think she's completely consistent. This is a thing It would have bothered me if she just went it's okay, peter Because she's perfectly consistent with the first film. Uh, she's just more complex in this one She just shows more sides to her character. Like she doesn't I that's right. I would argue. She's less one dimensional Less one dimension. She's she's got she's got multiple dimensions. She has layers. She actually has a character And I thought someone someone said in chat. I thought he hated aunt may in the first film Well, I guess he hates both. Well, again, I think he's referring to the comic. Honestly, I think he's referring to the comic Um, okay, well, I mean a massive spider-man buff and I can tell you rosemary harris is still the most accurate aunt may ever I mean considering how heavily the I don't know about second and third film But definitely the first one how heavily they were based on the comics I'd be very very shocked if they You know the aunt may there was not representative Boros and chat said she's an onion She's gonna lay it But even though aunt may has the worst Seen and she's one of the worst characters in the movie. She still isn't the number one worst character Wait, she's one of the worst characters in the movie apparently I guess but man, I thought she was maybe the strongest. You know how I take that I'm like, man, if she's one of the worst this film is doing pretty good This has got some great characters apparently Oh But who does he think the real worst one is let's find out let's find out can't wait find out It's gonna be Mary Jane's nose to me Yeah, there we go. Yes it is Let me go back a bit Number one worst character No, that award goes to Mary Jane Watson The most petty and manipulative person in the entire series. She spends the whole movie I would agree with it. He's not there for her. I was gonna say I'd agree with it in the third one But i'm fine with her in this first and second. Yeah, third one. She's a bit of a Actually the end of the second one. I really didn't like that. She ditches the guy at the altar I thought that was really um, that was a bit much. Yeah, but um She's the thing is peter hasn't explained what's going on. So she has no She she has no explanation for why he's not Being there for her at all why he's acting so weird And so I think any person would be like what the fuck dude Either because the point is She's almost being She's almost being led on by peter in a way because he's like we're not being together But I clearly am in love with you But no, but I do We should hang out. No, which was yeah, but oh by the way, I am spider-man too. She's like what is a complete clusterfuck and You know she has that scene where um, I think it's the beginning of this film actually where It's obviously following the end of the first film where she's like we should date and he's like no And then she's like we should date again I think at the beginning of this film and he's like no and then she's like by the way There's someone else It's like oh as in As in like the running out of time our moment is about to close So like be sure I suppose is how I would have taken it and and then he spends the rest of the film trying to catch up With her if you remember until He decides she she comes back to him. She's like, okay fine. Let's do it that he's like no Actually, I was wrong because you remember it's like They play opposites throughout the whole film He he doesn't want to be with her she does and then she doesn't want to be with him And he actually does he drops the whole spider-man thing It wants to become like a person and then the second she actually comes back She's like, okay fine, and then he's like no actually no This is what I mean for like I I understand here When does he say no near the end of the second film you mean? Uh, do you talk about like the second time? It's when they're having a conversation Before dr. Octopus throws a car at them She's like right. She's like let's be together again Then he's like she she said my mind was playing tricks on me. We should be together and then he goes Oh, well my mind was playing tricks on me too. She's like what the fuck? Uh, she gets played around with a little bit in this film And I feel like because she has no idea what's going on with spider-man versus dr. Octopus She's just sitting here with this guy who's playing around with it. Like I don't see why she wouldn't be the way she is Hmm What do you think I mean a lot of people are saying that she is still the worst character in the film What do you what films? What do you think? Harry maybe I think harry's worse. Yeah, I think he's so one-dimensional Oh, yeah, I would agree with that thing is I can still understand them both Like the most growth harry gets is in the third film and it's It's you know, it's rushed because they have so little time But they have to get their three villains in harry is best friend steal your girlfriend man in the first one He doesn't really do much beyond that and then he's I hate spider-man man in the second one That's literally all he does Yeah, someone just said that mj has daddy issues. So it makes sense how she acts like and I think she has trust and abandonment issues as well That's true. Yeah Yeah, that's a big part of what goes on with her. She if you remember. Oh, what was the bit uh rags There's something like She tells peter that um, I think this is in the third film. It's either third or the second No, it's gotta be the third film. She says Uh the reading these reviews It's like they were written by my dad and he just goes oh gotta go and he just jumps out the window And it's like dude That's not a time where you leave, but yeah, you know, it's complicated relationship And we can't be um, I'll go back a bit make sure we don't cut anything out this movie. He's like hey, listen I'm sorry. We can't be together You know, I gotta do my own thing. It's sad But hey, he's being straight with her and in their first scene in this movie She tries to make the moves on him and he's like, hey, whoa, hold up. Yeah, no, I'm still I'm still trying to be friends Here. I don't I don't want to date you if I remember I I don't want to I don't want to pull up the dialogue But I'm pretty sure he gives implications that he's not 100 against the idea He's he says she says something like it was great seeing you again. He says something like oh, yeah it was That she's like it was like she basically she's like what does that mean? What what what is what you just said? What what was that? And he's like Because this way he's he's fucking with her a little bit because he's not 100 sure Look how cute I am. I baked you a fucking cake and he's like, uh, okay. Oh boy. Yeah And she's like admit you love me admit you love me peter and he's like no I don't I don't want to so she takes it easy. You know, she backs off a little bit She doesn't freak out or anything except she does this shit and then a second later She turns around and she's like, oh, well, you know what? I have a boyfriend anyway So fuck you and she's no no no no no no she says I have I'm seeing someone she says I'm seeing someone and then he says like a boyfriend and then she goes Like she doesn't say yes. She says something like She says I like him. She's like a face. If isn't she she's I think she says like I like him because I remember the The dialogue being weird. I'm actually going to put the script. I'm not trying to do this just to prove him wrong I'm literally curious. Yeah, I um, yeah, it did seem a little uncommittal from her But I think like they're a little emotional back and forth as part of the whole thing they have going I think she I mean, I think it's clear from Peter's delivery that he does like her Uh, but obviously he won't explain why he can't be with her Um, and I think she's just trying to get him to stop being Like in her eyes stop being an idiot and just admit it like stop fucking around like give her an actual reason He's not an awkward nerd or something. Yeah Yeah, she I'm just checking out now. So he says oh boy. Yeah, and then she says oh boy Yeah, what and he goes nothing and then she says do you want to say something and he goes I was wondering He pauses for ages and then he goes if you're still in the village and she goes you're such a mystery and Obviously he didn't actually want to answer that question. He just covered and then she says Happy birthday and she walks away and she says I'm seeing someone now and he goes like a boyfriend And she goes well like I like him and he goes what? And she goes nothing and he goes. Oh, well, you know companionship is good And she goes maybe more than that and he goes more And she goes I don't know the point is that Peter doesn't know whether or not he's actually sure about giving up on her or not if that makes sense I think she's trying to leave the door open for him basically Yeah, um, that's the whole film is the Both of them are telling each other that they don't know whether or not they actually do 100% want to be together and they decide by the end It's not definitive from Peter's side at all. He really is. I don't think it's manipulative No, I don't think so either. I think this is two people who really are not sure about what they're going to do with their lives And that's kind of a part of the film It's about identity Duality choosing one life over another one. It's it's all there Stop portraying it like it's I think maybe that's I mean Sorry, I think that's kind of why she likes spider-man, isn't it because he sort of comes in and Sweeps her off her feet and like saves her and I think because of her issues. She's looking for some guy to come in and be like You know, I'm with you now Um, maybe the reassurance. I don't know. I don't know that that's what strikes me about it But yeah, I think she's just leaving the door in for you and saying, you know, if you want it, you know You better get on it quick. Yeah, and I think the being like, oh, she's just so whiny. She's a dick in the film I should be like I don't she's being human See where yeah, she's being human It's easy, you know, she backs off a little bit. She doesn't freak out or anything Except she does this shit and then a second later. She turns around and she's like, oh, well, you know what? I have a boyfriend anyway So fuck you and she seriously says it just to fuck with him No, she says it because she's trying to say that the window's closing I've got someone I like so you better be clear right now because otherwise I'm going to pursue this other guy Like that's not fucking with him. That's giving him the chance That's more blatant than a lot of people will be with each other. It's like, yeah, definitely very adult to be like I'm going to pursue this relationship if we don't have anything But uh, whatever frame it this way it makes you look really bad It's just a joke Yeah, I wonder if anybody feels like this section is a joke This has been very much more critical than the um, his typical sort of approach, isn't it? Yeah, but it's wrong But then you learn that she's only fucking this other guy because she's mad at peter parker She agrees to marry him right after she yells at peter parker. It's just because she's mad at him Punch me. I bleed I'm not sure about that and and he does He's a very dashing astronaut and he asks her in front of like a massive crowd. He actually does something about it Yeah, and he didn't really have much of a chance I mean, I'm not trying to say that she didn't want to marry him. I'm saying the Under the circumstances it'd be pretty awkward if she said no because it's like a giant crowd. He did it like it's a giant But uh, yeah, I don't know. There was I don't think there's a scene where she says she only married him because she hates peter or something I don't I don't remember that. Yeah, I don't remember it either So then in the weirdest scene in the movie she has this fucking experiment with her fiance where she makes him kiss her Like spider-man kissed her in the first movie. What if your girlfriend went up to you and was like, hey, can you kiss me like this one guy? Well, she doesn't well, she doesn't say that does she and you know what I think it was hot so So genuinely, I'll just go with the overly remembering the film criticism I remember the second one better than the three at this point But um She does it because when she kisses peter in the first film if you remember she looks at him like wait, what the fuck Like because she's remembering the kiss from spider-man So what she's doing in this scene is figuring out if it's because it's peter or if because everybody feels that way when you kiss them Well, bear in mind at this point. She doesn't know that peter parker is spider-man So she's just remembering what it felt like to kiss spider-man So remembering about recapturing that feeling of You know kissing a hero I'm pretty sure genuinely I'm pretty sure she's doing it as like a test to see if peter does kiss the same way a spider-man or if everybody kisses When you're upside down like that like that Hmm. I'm pretty sure that's what the point of the scene is. I don't think it's her actually being like please kiss me like my ex did I don't think That that's that but but um, I mean the fact is as well. Is it so bad like she does Not get what she wants from astronaut man. That is I mean as much as it's a bit cruel to astronaut man. She just doesn't uh have passion frame. I guess is what I would say Yeah, yeah Poor astronaut man. I used to kiss me this one guy that I just kissed in it. Oh, so I don't think she told him that I don't think she said hey, I want to kiss you like my ex. I think she just did Assuming that she didn't just kiss the guy on the couch in that way because that's kind of where she was I mean because she's not kissing him like spider-man. She's clearly on the side of him. It's just different I think well, I think she's deliberately placed herself there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird though Anyway one time I just want to you know, see what it feels like what the fuck no, but that's not the only frustrating plot device So that he's just calling it a frustrating plot device like that's a serious criticism That's a plot device the uh the kiss I'd have to refresh myself on what plot device means A plot device or plot mechanism is any technique in a narrative used to move the plot forward I don't think it moves the plot forward that she kisses him No, it doesn't at all. Yeah, if they didn't have that seen it at all then Is he referring to Mary Jane as a plot device? I think I don't know man possibly Whatever, we'll just keep going because I don't know that it's just a joke. Yeah You know, see what it feels like what the fuck no, but that's not the only frustrating plot device Dr. Octopus is also a big dumbass. Firstly, he has this extremely dangerous Demonstration in his fucking apartment with no protective gear given to anybody in the room Gear he has fucking four massive arms that he well He did he did say for them not for himself. He said for them Isn't he overconfident though? Yes, the film takes a lot of points to say that he thinks that he's in complete control Scientific hubris and even at the end he acknowledges that what Peter said was right and that he made a mistake Yeah, he does Because peter's like are you sure you've mapped everything out and then he's like i've done it from like the mathematical level no mistakes whatsoever And then later on he actually says There were no mistakes We'll do it again, you know, like he's he's losing his shit again I'm not saying this is some kind of like great piece of writing, but both him and the green goblin. They've got the insanity gene Which is well established. They they've both got conflicting minds Dr. Octopus as as the inhibitor chip is broken. He thinks he can just do it again I'm not saying this is a counter to his criticism. I'm just saying This stuff in the film that answers this Uh, he thinks that he's got it so under control and it does if you guys remember it is under control for the first like two minutes Yeah, he thinks he's calculated perfectly like he's not being a dumb ass. He's he's wrong But that doesn't make him stupid Yeah, because the guy from lost is like we have a stable energy signature or whatever And everything's working out and then it slowly goes boom Other than goggles for himself and then when he turns he apparently he's really close to it. I guess that's how it works I don't know. It's supposed to be a contain. It's supposed to be a contained energy field And therefore safe for everyone else, right? Yeah, isn't that the point and it was safe up until everything went wrong? The point all his entire supervillain plot is Well, I gotta finish my science experiment might as well His science experiment is going to save the universe or the the world that's his motivation I'm sorry. You can't get away with this one. It's like his whole motivation is saving the world so I mean, and even if it wasn't saving the world and if it was just for purely selfish reasons like People's work Is a huge motivation for why they do the things that they do And before anyone says he's killing people and robbing banks to save the world really It's like, yes, he does value. He even says means he says We need money the arms say we should steal it. He says Crime I'm I'm above that and then he says wait the real crime would be not to finish this project Exactly. So there you go. Also. He's being He's being overtaken by the ai in the arms. Yes, the purpose of the arms was to conduct the experiment Yeah, the arms are very utilitarian compared to so of course they're going to drive him to want to finish it Yeah So yeah, all very good reasons why he has that motivation There's a lot of attention to detail in the writing for this film like they really do want to get a lot of these things across Little cactus on the chat said remember guys. He's not into science that much. Okay Dr. Octopus did nothing wrong I get that you're supposed to be crazy now because of the ai of the metal arms, you know Fucking with his mind, but why the fuck do they want to finish the fusion reaction because it's their purpose Because that's what they were doing their entire purpose and I mean Are you asking us what the motivation of the clause is when they're literally just tools with ai that allows them to Basically be reactive to to be able to Um respond to like, you know, like they have the sensors there Their whole thing is making this project work. That's the whole reason they exist They're their whole purpose. That's the goal that they were created for and they know it And he's got a similar intentions. It's just that they have no morality because they're literally just tentacles Yeah, it's all about the purpose This is weak Yeah, what do they care about sustainable energy for I don't get it He's one of the best characters in the spider-man universe with really complex goals and motivations But here he's just a fucking goofball I will say though that one of the best scenes in the movie is definitely the fucking horror scene that plays at the end of The first act This is so reminiscent of evil dead that it makes me kind of giddy like look at this Tell me this is not from evil dead for real and to top it off This scene is full of the other staple of this trilogy screaming women I don't know if he's saying it's a bad thing. He's just pointing out like I agree And yeah, I love that scene the whole scene but the thing is I love loads of the scenes from spider-man 2 so Yeah, it's great scene Yeah, and it's classic samurai I mean, it's kind of a horary kind of I mean on its own No, but compared to every yeah Yeah, it's a it's a horrible scene compared to everything else But it's horrible in that you could if you put this into a horror movie and you added blood splatters It would have been fine like it would have fit right in yeah Like you they definitely leave things to the imagination Sam Raimi loves screaming women Even when the movie isn't being campy and it's not being serious It's just being really awkward You know this video when it's not being campy and it's not being serious. It's just really awkward I didn't say he's really confusing I definitely agree with that Toby McGuire can't have a normal scene with somebody. We sure showed him What do you mean we? So anyway, what was what was wrong with that? You understand that's peter parker beneath that mask I feel bad because I love that bit where she's like I was the one who p.m. And he's like, no It's good. It's good. Yeah, I don't All right, whatever moving on Moving on to your nose that in this movie, you know peter parker knows she could use a little boost So anyway, peter parker beats up dr Octopus he tells mary janey's spider-man and then she leaves her fiancé on their wedding day And decides to be with peter parker. She loves him Well, that's that's that was it. I know I know it was he describing the plot or was he criticizing? I don't know That's the big question. He says it's fucked up and it is fucked up And I think the the film treats it like it's like a good noble thing But she does it in a really dickish way. She just she jelts him. Yeah. Yeah, she does Jelting means you don't show up to the wedding But at the same I mean I'm not defending her but like at the same time If she had stayed with astronaut boy, she would have been miserable She inspired a man would never have got together and It would have been it would have been a very different ending wouldn't it? I would I think they did it for the theatrics I think the realistically she would have just said I don't want to be with you Not leaving him literally on the altar. That's some that's some that's some dramaticized stuff, you know, yeah Yeah But in fairness, he's only described the plot. He hasn't actually made that criticism yet. I don't see I don't know if he will Sides to be with peter parker Which is fucked up But whatever. Well, I think he is saying that as a criticism Well, he's From my interpretation there. He's saying the fact that she's done it in general is fucked up as opposed to the specifics Because I think it's fine in general, but the specifics is part of what yeah, I don't like how she did it I feel like in the context of this video just the way that he's talking about it. He is making it sound like it's a criticism Yeah And I would agree we can't prove that either way I don't agree that her choosing him in the end is bad. I just agree that it's the way it's but across is a bit like what Like the do you ever the see the guy is literally like handed a letter while he's waiting for it. He's like wow He's like oh and everyone's there including harry and uh his dad, which is like man. This is this was That was mean Yeah, okay, I don't know if he's criticizing the relationship overall I'd have things to say but I'll just assume it's about the scene Doesn't mind that he's spider-man and she'll do whatever it takes to be with him And that she'll be there for him no matter what Except on the next movie where she leaves him because he's spider-man. She bit off more than she could chew Yeah, she didn't understand what she was getting into no and uh, I don't remember exactly at what point in the film She breaks up with him Uh, but isn't it because he starts being a bit more of a dick well She breaks up with him because harry forces her to under threat of death Oh, yeah That's kind of important And in fairness he keeps fucking up it beyond just being spider-man if you remember he He doesn't cheat on her, but he kisses another woman in front of her with their kiss Yeah, which me and rags have a huge problem with that Yeah, like what the hell Well, he's let the power go to his head, isn't he? Yeah, that is what the film's about. Yeah, that's what the film's about Anyway, this movie's dumb as hell seven out of ten. I love it Wow, that was what six minutes Oh That was the best of oh I would I wow, okay. I guess that's done Correct me if I am wrong about this. Well, it's not really a fact. It's just an assumption Do you think you started rushing this after he did the first one? He's just like, ah, fuck it Yeah, because it's like damn this this is a 13 minute video and I've probably talked about the first one Do you think it's to do with the fact that it's just so little to criticize about the second one? Maybe but it's supposed to be worse than I remember. Well, the crazy thing is that he criticized a lot of the Genuinely speaking a lot of the good great parts. Yeah The aunt may thing like oh, yeah, he's just making stuff up Or just deliberately misinterpreting stuff. Yeah Yeah, as bain flay just said, what about the train seat? How do you not mention the train scene, man? Oh, wow Wow, okay, and then he's got what another eight minutes to cover the worst of the three films This is the problem No, you're really gonna just tell us that spider-man 3 isn't very good because it's it's gonna we know Yeah, I just we know you're gonna be bringing anything new to the table I'm curious if he maybe he's gonna defend it that would that would be interesting but Maybe but what's strange is that you would think that it's universally kind of accepted that the second one is the best of the three And that it's a really good superhero movie And if your point is to tell us that they're worse than we remember That would really be the big target. Yeah, definitely That's the one to go for half as long as the first one But yeah, let's just see what this goes. I'm willing to take anything right now If he focuses the rest of this time of the third film, then he will have focused on the worst one Better than more than the best one when his point is to tell us they're worse than we remember Which would be strange. We'll see what he does But that would be strange Okay, so everybody knows that this movie is bad And I'm not about to talk shit about spider-man 2 and go ahead and say this one's good And I almost wasn't even gonna talk about it because everybody already knows the funny things in it But I can't help it this movie is hilarious. However, while the movie is bad. It's actually pretty consistent Oh Wait, I didn't catch that. What did you say it's it's bad, but it's consistent All right, let's let's back up just to leave it This was back up just not about to talk shit about spider-man 2 and go ahead and say this one's good And I almost wasn't even gonna talk about it because everybody already knows the funny things in it But I can't help it this movie is hilarious. However, while the movie is bad. It's actually pretty consistent in its tone. This still Um, so Um, what's interesting is that this is exactly what he said about the other ones. It's funny And those other ones were consistent in their tones I was gonna say, yeah, they were consistent, right? But so Now do we know now with him saying that do we know now That when he was mentioning all of the silliness from the first two That it's a bad thing or If it's consistent in tone that means it's not bad, correct Is he just saying that it's not it's only as bad as the others in that sense And I'm sorry, but I don't think I don't think three is consistent by the way personally I think it goes super goofy and then sometimes really serious for example When harry dies is like that's some serious shit right there Yeah, they're really trying to play that out. Like it's not the film isn't entirely goofy Well, didn't he say that he doesn't see much difference between the three films? I think he did say that. Yeah. Yeah in terms of like the quality. Yeah, because the clip was aunt may on the ledge. Yeah Hmm By the way, nice pause Yeah, good point. All right, let me drag it back a bit. Let's continue this movie is hilarious However, while the movie is bad, it's actually pretty consistent in its tone This still feels like a spider-man sequel Even if it is a really stupid one. How's the pie? So good So this movie goes ahead and starts off with another it's me Peter Parker. God damn it. You think after two movies he'd probably get good at this You'd think after two movies you'd explain the problem Yeah, he just keeps pointing out that he does it Is it just is it just the bad delivery? I'm assuming. I don't know if it's more to do with the fact that it's Like it's ruining some form of immersion or if it's like commentary that's unnecessary or if it's just bad acting. I don't know Well, it's it's a very comic book intro, isn't it? Yeah Yeah, so That's all we've got guys But no, he doesn't now if you ask me the best part about this movie is the fact that the wackiness starts at the very beginning It's not a gradual build-up like it is in the last two movies This movie starts off as a shit show at the 10 minute mark We already see two antagonists Harry starts juicing with the goblin serum Yeah, I mean me and rags completely agreed with this. We were watching it. They rush the shit out of this film They're like, yeah, this is this this is this go go go go go And you know why because they've got to fit so much other shit into it and I feel for samurai me if this was like Forced on him producer wise When Harry walked out of the chamber, I think I was like, well, that's that that's that that's done This is like, well, he's he's uh super villain now All right now fucking meteorite lands in central park with the symbiote This movie is trying to juggle all of this shit at once and it really doesn't work Also the symbiote coming from outer space is fucking stupid I know that's how it is in the comics, but there's a lot more context in the original story With everything that we know about this universe so far telling me that aliens exist Is kind of a stretch saff well, it's a comic book movie Hang on wouldn't it be the opposite with everything that's going on telling me aliens exists slots right in Yeah, I can if you're willing to believe that a spider bite turned a man into A human spider and you got an octopus man Just trying to create renewable energy at his apartment if it is I mean somebody's saying that's not how it is in the comics, but if that is how it is in the comics Then how can you blame them for putting it in the movie? Well, I don't think it's a whole I don't think it's consistent though Matter space feels like it's something that kind of deserves a whole lot more time to sort of play up its importance Instead of just one of three villains Um, I I'm just I'm I'm mainly just stuck at the factor that you just like are aliens With everything else going on kind of aliens too, and I'm just like that's weird I would have thought it would fit right in the MCU obviously is doing it. They're just like yeah, there's aliens by the way Like yeah, I mean I do think inclusion of uh, venom is a little bit random Yeah, but well, I think if they made the movie about it it might have worked Instead of just being like a fuck it. It just feels like yeah. Oh, here's a here's a plot device or here's a villain I don't know I feel like he could develop that point. I'm not really sure he's going with that After all that harry ambushes peter and tries to fucking murder him in the street We are not even one sixth through the movie at this point. Now all things considered. I actually like this fight It's pretty exciting We know peter isn't going to die because the movie just fucking started But the main thing at risk here is the wedding ring It adds an extra threat to the fight and it's good for making the audience engaged Now right after this scene we're thrown into the sandman's origin story Because like I said this movie has no fucking breaks However him turning into sandman is actually one of the best sequences in the whole movie. I agree with that too Yeah, I agree him picking up the lock. It was really great One thing I will say though is the b-rax that it was funny when he breaks into this place And these sides is people like hey, there's some um, they say silicon or they say some kind of Thing they say we can detect some kind of signature and then they go It's probably a bird. It'll go away and we thought it was hilarious That um, there's like this just this set of police that are parked outside like prior to break it They're just like that's probably nothing It may not be a full-blown criminal jumped in there But like isn't he now Offering a piece of serious criticism. Well as in positive criticism. Yeah, I'd say so Yeah But it's a joke. I don't know It's all a joke, man. I have no idea The effects have aged pretty well and with no dialogue and beautiful music. It's an excellent example of I don't know about the music Yeah, the music I wasn't when it was rags brought it up when we were watching it and I did Think about the music and I was like, I'm not a hundred percent sure what they're portraying exactly I didn't even notice the music Yeah, it was very it it just didn't really fit. I don't think the movie really fit But I it was it was enough To where I did when we were watching this film. I did bring it up I was like the music here seems off when we were watching this part But I mean, yeah, you know, I'm fine with it still. It's like it's it's it's it's okay. It feels weird that I'm trying to explain, you know, like it's like, yeah, spider-man 3 has got way bigger problems, so it's fine We can get over that It's kind of weird because if you look at this scene on its own, it's kind of beautiful But then you remember it's in the same movie as this scene And you get kind of upset. Anyway, harry has amnesia now, which as everybody I would say the worst part about that scene is that it could have been a great villain and then they fuck it up Well, yeah, he's he's extremely underdeveloped like Like very one-dimensional like criminally undeveloped. He's like we barely even understand. He gets fucking barely any lines. It's just bad Also, yeah, harry getting amnesia is just stupid. Like, yeah, I even when we watched it I was like, so what was the point of that? It's just a delay. I'm in there because they need him to be a villain at a certain point And now which as everybody knows is probably the worst plot device in the history of storytelling Is that a plot device? It moves the plot. It sort of stops the plot temporarily. Yeah, I suppose you could Is that what a plot device counts as because you said it yeah, it said it pushes plot forward Is there another word for stops plot? I don't know Plot bump. I don't know plot bomb Plot because I like plot It's a plot device, you know that keeps you going forward. Yeah. Yeah, um, but it's it's fine. Like I'm just curious about the actual Film criticism language. I don't know if that's actually how you use it He seriously hit his head and forgot. Oh, yeah, I did laugh at that the film the boy Like I wish I could get hit on the head and no The entire last two movies that is more than ridiculous That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Also, james franco has gone from being a bad actor to being an insane one Now unsurprisingly mary jane is still the worst character in this movie I wait I thought you said oh, no he did say he did say didn't he I thought for a second I remembered it as aunt may was the worst but no he did clarify that mary jane was worse She's the second worst in the last So will she we'll see how she stacks up in this spider man gets attacked all the time. This isn't about you This is about me. Remember how in the in fairness The conversation this is the thing me and rags brought up. She was talking about seeing her dad in the reviews And then he's like, yeah spider man gets criticism. It's like dude Dude Come back come back to reality talking about me, you know, listen to her like don't make it about yourself Yeah, like I admit she's annoying, but that was a completely fair reaction. I would probably have the same thing I'd be like Chill out. I'm not talking about spider man. The last movie. She's like, hey, I love you. I'll support your lifestyle Yeah, well the first time he has to go out and do spider man stuff. She's like Oh, I didn't know this spider man. Shit was gonna be well. It's probably been a while And it's probably not the first time so it's kind of wearing her down that and he's not there to talk Context man. She says I see my dad in these reviews The dad who like is abusive like this is really important. I can't be defending spider man three I feel weird It be fair to the film. Come on. It's very easy to criticize. You don't need to you don't need to make it There's already enough wrong with it. You don't need to make stuff up I'm the next scene is also really funny because we are now randomly introduced to all the new side characters This random ass motherfucker shows up and he's just like oh my god. That's gwen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's hilarious that you got Whatever accident is taking place It's hits gwen stacey who happens to be peter's Co-student in whatever subject he's taking and also the girly kisses later on Who's also dating eddie brock who happens to be on scene taking photos who is not So gone and she's the daughter of the chief of police. Who's that guy there as well? It's a bit of a like Wow, that's a lot of Everybody who's gonna be important to say It's very contrived But I guess they're trying to cramp so much into this film. Yeah. Yeah, that's how they have to do it The way and he just shows up randomly now all things considered tofer grace's performance is not actually that bad I actually really like it. See photography. It's not just about no offense Flag calls whenever it's about lighting and it kind of upsets me that people blame him for why this movie sucks I've never blamed him. I've always said he's miscast because I actually like him in that 70s show Yeah, he just yeah, he wasn't that 70s show. It's He ain't the only thing. I'll tell you that Like um, it was a team effort to make this a bad film And I think there are scenes where he's he's super like chewing the scenery Like as venom and um, there's a couple of scenes where it's just a bit awkward. I don't know But like I wouldn't say he's flawlessly acting it. I just wouldn't blame him anyway He's actually perfectly playing the jerky hot-headed foil to peter parker He's just one of the better parts of the movie when he's not being venom Oh, yeah, I love the bit where he's like jesus will you help me kill peter park? That's definitely one of his best moments. Yeah when we were watching I was like, I don't think that's how jesus works Jesus is one of the people who likes that. He's he's a bit against it. No, you need to read the book of revelations That's that's when he had his eyes. Yeah read read the um Not the sermon on the mount. It's a later one. He did there's uh, it's gonna be a lot of fire and brimstone boys Jesus he's bringing out a sequel to his book. I would say it's the bible too. It's not out of character but for jesus for jesus, but you know, but Normally, maybe jesus was like finally no one's asked me that I just love the idea that he's actually there and he says kill this guy. Jesus is like, do you know anything about me? That was that was back when I was younger. I there was a phase Vision of forgiveness guys. Yeah, I got it all out of my system with the jews We're good now. He's just more straightforward. Just goes no I'm all right, thanks The symbiote he kind of sucks once he turns into venom. He's just I like being bad It makes me happy See that's what I was talking about about the acting but Sorry, I can't I can't watch that not laugh. Yeah, it's that's some that's some oof level stuff there Ridiculous honestly if this movie was just about one villain one fucking dude It could have been fine Harry's motivations are clearly defined all the way from the first movie And he would have made a great villain on his own Sandman has a very compelling story and the way he ties back to peter could be interesting if written well I don't like how they did that. I don't like it either It was so good the way it was in the first and second. It was so great It was all all there man. And then they're like, no, we gotta fuck with this one too. And that's her um compelling story I think it could be compelling, but they rush it. They're like he has a daughter a daughter over there daughter He's doing if the daughter daughter's lk daughter daughter money money for daughter daughter You're like, okay, okay doing terrible horrible things to random people He's clearly going out of his way to be violent when he doesn't need to and hurt people his whole thing just falls Yeah, I think I think I guess I agree with him. It just needs more work writing wise To make that to make the sandman one way on his own Sandman has a very compelling story and the way he ties back to peter could be interesting if written well Eddie Brock serves as a great foil to peter his narrative opposite He represents something that we haven't seen in these movies yet A person like peter parker except motivated by his own selfishness instead of selflessness I I'm okay with that too. I agree. I think that maybe that could have made a good movie too Yeah Any one of these dudes would have been fine making a spider-man movie should be so fucking easy But most of them suck I'm so mad most of them suck most of them suck isn't he three I guess he's talking about the amazing spider-man one and two. Okay, okay Anyway, Mary Jane gets kicked out of her play because she can't sing for shit and she sees peter swing by and she actually gets mad at him Yeah, forget being supportive of the spider-man lifestyle now Uh, yeah, since he's been jumping out on her and then she loses what actually makes her individual And he's still got all the fame and appreciation of the people which is what she's just lost I think you can understand that it's pretty straightforward. Yeah, that's understandable That's the scene. That's the point of the scene Yeah, you know, you're in and clapping and she wants to be cheered for and again Don't want to be defending spider-man 3b. You're making it so easy Man, I we're defending spider-man 3 man Are you're actually actively jealous of your own boyfriend? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, jealousy is an emotion humans experience it Don't want to add the analysis on here. Have I finished it off with that? No, and for her acting has been established in prior movies as yeah passion. It's what she wants to do Yeah, it's not just out of nowhere She has even lied to him in the past acting as if she has been acting when she really Was this before after his kiss as well, by the way With the other girl I can't remember. He hasn't covered that yet. So Oh, I guess it's before then And then she even has the audacity to get mad. Oh, there you go. Kisses. Oh, yeah, there you go He's gotta be kidding. He's he's gotta be kidding. There's no way if let's do it again. Let's do it again. Just yeah, rewind that I'm pretty sure he's getting their own boyfriend. And then she even has the audacity to get mad when he kisses a random girl That he doesn't know Right in front of her Peter, why did you do that? Yep? Yeah, I completely agree Good, it's a it's a moment in the film where it's just like That to me seems out of character for him, even if he's on an ego trip It's just yeah, especially because they've established so much how much he cares for her you'd think it and he just spoke to it He just spoke to he was like, hey, you're here. Look at me. Yay This movie's just basically mary jane and peter parker being pissy at each other again Because we haven't seen enough of that because we have the same general storyline In every single one of these movies So now spider-man decides to be evil and he wears his hair different and he says bad words You'll get your rent when you fix this And everybody likes this. Why did he sense a dam? Because that's the joke That's the joke. Oh, okay. He's like Oh, I see. Yeah. Oh gosh darn it. What did you think he was saying? You'll get your rent when you fix this nigger Wow, this is an instant jump Jesus, he didn't say that No, that's what I think is funny though is the peter is peter's version of the most horrible thing you can say is dam Yeah, he said good lord peter He's like, oh drats Or the movie this is everyone's favorite part of the movie everybody universally agrees that this is where the movie Really shines now this movie has a flow much like the others do However, the flow in this movie Is fucking insane They just have each villain getting kicked out of the story to make room for another villain Harry's the bad guy at the beginning of the movie until he gets amnesia Then sandman comes in and he's the villain until peter murders him Then harry decides not to have amnesia anymore and he's the villain again Then peter parker kills harry osborne with a bomb and then venom is the main villain after that This is a mess is bananas. Yeah, I agree. All this is happening in a way we have any villains There's just they threw so much in the first two movies worked so well with a villain And now it's like oh, there's villains everywhere. There's three of them now Also someone said why he's using the cuphead soundtrack. I think the idea is that he's it's like Everything's yeah, it's it's running so fast. It's so goofy Oh snicker knuckle Yeah, I don't disagree with any of those criticisms. I'm on board. Yeah, that's a valid criticism This is happening. We have bad acting She but no, but she's she's acting in the film Wasn't he referring to I think he's referring to him wasn't it her tommy? Well guys acting which yeah It's a bit much for me that seed I feel like he's really trying to be sad to convey sadness Yeah, but again like it's very you know Um, does it pull you out of the scene? Like for me, I was just like focusing on the fact that she's lying Yeah, um It's over. No Please and just absolutely hilarious scenes now take on this Oh my the last act of this movie rushes out faster than you can say Yeah Yeah fat point. It's funny. It's pretty rough Hey, oh boy. Yeah, Eddie Brock gets the symbiote and immediately afterwards him and sandman just find each other Wandering the streets, then they steal a taxi kidnap mary jane and build the death trap Wait, did they just randomly find each other? Um, there's dialogue the the sandman said he's been looking for him and the venom's been looking for him They've both been looking for each other to uh sandman thinks he's spider-man. That's who wants to kill him And he's like, oh your venom. Okay, and then venom is like I've been looking for you because I want to team up So But this whole this whole series has been like amazing coincidences kind of yeah, so it's a coincidence But that's not I mean that I mean they have a throwaway piece of dialogue to explain why it's just a little bit less than a coincidence It's still a coincidence vibe, which means like it's not ridiculous But again, like who cares compared to the other stuff in this film But you know, yeah, this all happens in the span of like a couple minutes This movie is so sluggishly paced until the point where all this shit has to be shoved in immediately Oh, and then peter goes to harry to recruit him to fight the bad guys But harry is now the phantom of the opera and he's sad and he hides in his castle But then the butler comes out and says that spider-man didn't kill his dad. I did kind of find that kind of funny Yeah, the butler just shows up the butler's like I happen to know something very important Well, the butler was in the last film though. He was in the second one. He wasn't in the first one though Yeah, he was in he was in spider-man 2 But yeah, it's a bit convenient that he left it right to the you know And he's I love by the way. He's in the great the goblin's Hideout right now. Apparently this butler really is the alfred to his got green goblin. He's just like, yeah I gave him to your father's secret evil laboratory to dust It's like it's it's awkward that you're a bad guy, but I mean I'll be your alfred fine I'd prefer it if you were a good guy I noticed a lot of blood on that glider when I cleaned it I just neglected to mention it two years ago. I just assumed you to cut yourself Yeah, he just he just oh someone's saying he was in the first one too We did watch it recently and I don't remember him being the first one. I don't remember being it must have been really I'll check. I am curious really minor butler spider-man Sam Raimi I should have him pop up Oh, maybe I was expecting too much This is no result. Does anyone know his name? Is it butler ex machina? Is it I mean it is it does seem like an ex machina, but it is set up I guess We all know why it's happening is to get him into the fight in it, but yeah Yeah, it's because like what how are we gonna get him into the fight? Well, the butler shows up again. It's a coincidence rather than um Rather than a I mean it's certainly possible I just my issue is like why the hell did you take so long to tell him about this, dude? The butler just walks in to the secret green goblin evil supervillain lair Because this is apparently not a shock at all to him And he's known the whole time And you think you would have saved harry a lot of grief here. Oh, there we go. He's called He's called houseman. Apparently he is in yeah, he sees he's in spider-man one I did not know that built paxton's dad apparently Oh, wow, so according to someone in the chart. Yeah. Yeah, he's got pictures with him. I didn't know that But um, yeah, he's apparently houseman in spider-man one. I guess he just doesn't have any lines in spider-man one That might be the case. I don't know I don't know. Yeah, it's it's just a bit stupid. Yeah It's just a bit like my only issue is why the hell did you take so long to tell me, dick? This is one of the useful information two years ago. Glad you survived that fucking grenade It's like I was Yeah, the grenades do tend to get less powerful as the film is selectively powerful. Imagine it was the vaporized grenade out of it I know right. It's like we'd gone from they vaporize you into a into skeleton dust to Slightly burn your face Hey, man. He was a super soldier. It makes sense Yeah, yeah All right. All right Spider-man is innocent I loved your father Why does I have loved you Harry? I'm sorry. Who are you? So I have to agree. Who the hell are you? I totally agree. He's like I love you. He's in like one scene in the second film very briefly. I think he says like a line Yeah, he's like I'm leaving for the night or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's it He's like I have loved you both. It's like wait. What who are you? This is a funny moment for the climax of this movie. I found you when you were younger involves around Peter saving Mary Jane Does that sound familiar because it's been the climax in every single one You see what I mean when I say well what I will say is that a lot of people criticize Spider-man homecoming because it doesn't put enough people who Peter loves in danger I believe it's very much a comic thing that she consistently gets in danger. Someone's gonna have to clarify that but um That is the person his love interest the green goblin found out dr octopus found out and of course These guys steal her for that specific reason Like it's easy for the audience to understand and to relate to Like it's easy to understand Spider-man's motivations if he has to save someone he loves and the audience can relate to it So it's you know, it's it's better than just some random stranger Yeah, and and again like they're doing it on purpose. They're trying to bait him out. Yeah So I mean you could argue. Yes, they've done it one too many times, but Who else are they supposed to Do it. I mean they did Aunt May in the second one, didn't they they did. Yes, so they can't do her again She's old She's stuck up the hips for it. Like you gotta let you gotta let Barry jig get captured again Say these movies are all the same. I don't even care It's so funny four out of ten really bad, but I like it any I'm confused He's didn't he say six seven and four, but yet they're all pretty much as good as each other Was that's what he said? Or am I just imagining that he didn't he just said it didn't he six seven and four Just rewind it like ten seconds I'm pretty sure he just says he just said they're all the same I think oh well like just now should I draw it back a bit? I think he did. I think he did just say it. Yeah I don't even care It's so slidey before then four out of ten really bad, but I like and that spider man is innocent I loved your father You know, you kind of look like I loved you Harry I'm sorry. Who are you? So the climax of this movie revolves around peter saving mary jane Does that sound familiar because it's been the climax in every single one. I guess he's saying that this is the climax in every film I don't think he's saying that But I could just want to say I think uh, I think the butler wanted a climax in this Leave that poor bad alone Harry alone I've been cleaning your boss for you. I don't even care. Very good. He said funny See what I mean when I say these movies are all the same. Uh, what does that mean though? Do we know what that means? So I mean he's saying that because the endings are you know, the same they use this that same device He's using that to make a more general point That they're all kind of the same. I mean, this is the thing Yeah, I guess so for me spider-man 2 and 3 are just leagues apart in terms of their quality I would come in here and dust off your father's Stop it rags Ten really bad, but I like it anyway I don't feel so good Good meme if you ask me all I'm surprised that he didn't go into how Terrible sandman was I don't know. So there's a lot he didn't cover. Well, this is the problem He's he had half the video for one film and then half a video for two films and this is what happens. He doesn't have enough time You know how people say like I go on for too long I would say the reverse for this. He's not gone on long enough Yeah, there's a lot more he could have said or elaborated on I'd much rather you went until you said everything you feel you need to say for your point. Yeah Yes, yeah, I would rather have it elaborated too much than Four out of ten really bad, but I like it anyway Why did my tears not turn me into mud? I don't understand That's actually a good point Because I made a sound I guess Sad DT is that makes sense the glass Honestly do make a pretty decent trilogy people say spider-man 3 is the worst one But if you watch all of them back to back it really doesn't feel that much different from the other We we did that oh my god, we did that They are so different from each other first one's solid second one's great third one's terrible. That's how I felt second and third yeah back to back And man the third one was shit Jay said a baller will not rest until all youtube videos are several hours long. It's a quest. This is true I'm flooding youtube with content Nobody will have any time to watch any one creator. What is it 600 hours uploaded every minute? Half of that's yours Yes, that's the that's the the future. We'll that's the goal So yeah, my opinion hasn't really changed I prefer the new movies But at the same time I can still enjoy these movies for what they are because even when they're bad They aren't as bad as the amazing spider-man 2 Even though I've never seen it and I'm never going to see it You guys are never going to get me. I guess he wasn't referring to No, he's done a video of the amazing spider-man one and two. Well, if that was he just said he hasn't seen it I'm assuming he's going to go on to see it from here. No, I think this is a joke Oh, okay, go watch that movie because it's not going to happen in a million years Maybe maybe some other time Bye guys Yeah, it was a joke because he then he then does do a video on the amazing spider-man one and two All right, then we did it. Yeah In less than six hours so Uh got a whole bunch of facts like details wrong to sell scenes to be worse than they were That's probably the biggest criticism I have Completely unfocused. I have no idea what the hell he was really going for in this video other than Was it just entertainment? Was he like I just wanted to just have a bit of fun And it's like okay editing was pretty good. I think Most things were relevant and he had a couple of jokes. I think we're good And then yeah a couple appropriate memes thrown in. Oh, yeah, it's not. Yeah, there's some good stuff in here Yeah, that is fine. It's just fine I just think that the whole point of the the title is worse than you remember But they made the first and second look better than I remember And it makes me appreciate them even more And then he praises the third one for reasons and he can put some on the same level Like if you watch them all three Consecutively and we watched the first one and then I think the next day we watched the second and third back to back So we were really I mean like we watched them basically consecutively. Yeah, we gave it a gave the best shot Oh, yeah, and the third one really stood out as being crap There's a reason there's a reason so many people hate it Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot wrong with it. There's loads of ways you can take it down There's loads of different ways You can sort of break down the the because there's issues that spread through the film One of the one of the biggest things people always reference is the three villains And it's not just that there's three villains. It's the fact that they get so spread thin And uh, you there's nothing to connect with and you realize all the fixes being involved Has he as he pointed out very correctly? They they knock the villains out because They're getting in the way. They can't we don't want to do with them Put a bit the fridge, you know Put put put Harry in amnesia land put sand man in the water is like, I don't know what to do Yeah I mean, there's I feel there's a lot of clickbait here Well, I mean, I'll go out and say it like I think it's a bad video overall Yeah, it's not a good video. It's we got a lot here that just I don't even know what the hell he's trying to say with a lot of it But I there's some things to appreciate I suppose it's kind of like the spider-man three of youtube videos like this Some good bits for mostly terrible. Yeah, someone did say that he does clarify Something about the video in here, so let's see if we can find it Front of you and but then I remembered that there's a spider-man movie that I haven't seen And of course I've heard terrible things about it every film critic on youtube has already talked about this movie But I kind of just got here and I didn't get to talk about it. So I want my turn I am of course talking about amazing spider-man two However, there is one movie that came out before that a movie that I have seen Once when it came out So before we start I have a quick thing to address about my last video because it comes into play when reviewing these movies Lots of people seem to mistake me teasing the campiness of the sam ramy trilogy as a bad thing I said many times that I like how campy these movies are I wholeheartedly believe that the corny-ness was intentional on sam ramy's part My point was that the campiness is more of a product of the time and this level of comic book Silliness stands out by today's standards, but overall I like um that makes them good. I'm confused how you I don't understand now Yeah, right. So he's saying they're not good by today's not as good by today's standards. That's what he's saying I think they're better because of today's standards. Who watch it. I don't understand when we go and see old films We don't immediately go like Um, it's like what mickey rooney. You can't do that. You're old. You're dead You know, like it's weird. I I would actually argue is less I wouldn't say that it's like, oh, we can't uh today's standards. This doesn't work It's like I think you can release a campy film It was way better than it is now. There are still campy films that come out It's literally just about tone. You just have to be consistent and portray it to your audience as long as you get that done You can release camp at any time And people people may or may not enjoy it But as long as you you nail the actual intentions, then you're fine. This is why I'm confused I'm just like, yeah, you recognize that it's camp. But you're saying it's bad for for now It's for this to be watched. I don't know Well, it's weird like sometimes he's saying it's good because it's camp but sometimes he seems to be saying it's bad because it's camp My my take on this is It's consistently campy, but that doesn't work for now, which to me is like I don't understand. There's plenty of things that are campy that work now Um, like you watch old campy stuff. Isn't the whole point of being camp part of the fact that it doesn't um We're like a part a big part of camp is that it's it's camp because of the fact you're watching it out of time Well, it's it's self-awareness It knows what it is It's almost like it's it's almost like it's playing off of satire in a way And I'm just curious here because like I'm looking for some kind of definition It's got a camp movies the unintentional hilarity of an inner story gone wildly or awry furthers best camp movies Those in which the camp is intentionally baked in from the beginning So This is kind of I think where I'm coming from Um, it's deliberate as he's just admitted. It's totally consistent So there's nothing wrong But he's saying like by today's standards like no those standards are still around today You can still make something campy today as long as you're very consistent and clear about it as long as it's good But then you can get films that are campy as a result of being Pushed from the time they were created to now, which I don't think that's one of these this film was very much Doing this by design as he's just agreed with so Yeah, mostly confused I'm just I'm not I'm not convinced that it's right to judge these films based on today's Standards considering that superhero movies have evolved Since this was released and because this was released and this was in very much intentional and it's not um, it's not like someone I intentionally made the entire screen blurry. It's like you wouldn't go. Oh, that's good then because I'm saying like It's totally consistent. He's going for very very comic book child friendly aspects of You know the the lines that you you don't It's the same logic as like you don't go Why did say why did team rockets say we're blasting off again when they fly into the sky? That doesn't make sense Looks like team rockets blasting off again It's like uh If this stuff was present in the dark night, that's that's where I'd be like, yeah, that's uh, that's a fair point This very tonally existed a bit confused, but this is this whole film is just that's what it does Um, and I still think it works today Me and rags watched it recently and I said I still stand by that if spider-man 2 came out recently I think it still works very much. So oh, yeah I mean I haven't seen it in years and years and watching it again. Was it yesterday that we finished them I think it was the day before yesterday. All right watching it a couple days ago. I was like, man, this is good Hmm Yeah, I think I think definitely two still holds up And uh three like you said earlier, um three you can't really say it holds up because it was bad back then Yeah, that's why it's so odd that he focused so little time on the best movie and the worst movie and he did a lot of I mean I say this hesitantly I'd have to make sure but I feel like he did a lot of just explaining The plot of the first one and that's what padded out a lot of it um Or mis-explaining it. Yeah that too And there's a lot I still I I just hawk it back to the whole like I could nitpick I could do this that he nitpicks. You're like, okay And this is the got it accurate as well, but uh, I'll just make sure we we absorb this segment See if there's anything else these movies are I wholeheartedly believe that the corniness was intentional on sam Raimi's part My point was that the campiness is more of a product of the time and this level of comic book silliness stands out by today's standards I don't think so overall. I like the campiness Well, uh, it's okay. Okay. Okay. It's he says he's saying he says that he's saying that it stands out The title of the video is literally worse than you can eat worse than you remember. Yeah So if that is his criticism, then he's using it to say that the films are Yeah, worse than we remember and I was about to say in fairness whether or not it stands out is totally subjective I realized that it's just like, yeah, you know, when you watch it if it fucking If it jumps out at you fair enough, but um, like I said as long as they're consistent and then it's intentional What's the problem? And as you just said worse than you can Sorry, yeah, I'm getting confused with this title as well worse than you remember. I think it is. Yeah He is he is using it to say that they are worse So how can he then turn around and say? Oh, it's you know, they're not bad because I can't be It just seems to contradict what he said Very very good. I don't know. I don't know I'm very confused and um The video like got quite quite uh It's 89,000 likes up to 46,000 down. So it's like a lot of people are very unhappy. Um Yeah, I can see why and I'm assuming it's because the message came across as uh These movies are much worse than you you remember Like that's and I I think they got that from the title. I I I I would uh assume that's yeah, so that's pretty much The complete take of that. Um I'm still of the opinion that uh, spider-man 2 is very very good So good and spider-man 3 is pretty bad and spider-man 1 is is is strong, but it's got it's got flaws Sure, I hope everybody watching goes and rewatches the second spider-man film because it is legitimately good Yes, legitimately go do it um I guess check the super chat I was gonna say if you guys want to go to the toilet or anything. Um, are you happy to tackle another video because I've got one prepared Yeah, sure. I am gonna have to bail after a little while, but yeah, I'm I'm happy going how long jerking you got just so I know Uh hour and a bit maybe hour and a bit. I'll take it. Uh, we've got we've got one. We've been asked asked to cover for a while it's um One about plot holes. I'll have to get the the the link But it was the theory was that a lot of people thought the Patrick Willems stole Parts of his ideas from this video. It's only got 2,000 views. I'm not sure if that's the case. I haven't seen it But um, it's another video saying the plot holes don't really matter as far as I know So that'll be oh joy and it's perfect because we've all CJ's got a video where we went after Patrick Williams like we did See it's like it's poetry. It's like it rhymes It's a fight Yeah, I'll read some of these out. Okay Action Um Where was I only hipsters would hate ramy's trilogy ramy spider man made me love. Oh, yeah How's the tfa critique coming enjoying the eFab? All the updates are very explicit on patreon But I mean the quick version would be I'm nearly done with part one which is two hours and nearly 40 minutes It's like a movie It's fully edited and I'm trying to figure out exactly what I'm going to be doing next I'll be asking questions on twitter and patreon for what people really want to Do and see but I understand there's been a drought on my channel and I apologize for that obviously, um I'm just working on something that's probably going to be the best thing I make for a long time It's spent a lot of time editing this one. So It's got to be good, you know, and um, so it's coming and uh, we'll we'll figure more about that As time goes on There's a special place in hell for those who hate ramy's aunt may I mean it just seems a little bit mean It's like well I thought she did so she has a really great acting moments And she's just the rock for peter to always come back to the family member Seems to be weird Norman's death is funny specifically because his head drops immediately. It's a bit silly. Honestly, I still like it I I guess I could see it both ways Because I am taken a little bit with the fact that he says The line that implies he really is kind of shame ashamed of what he'd become. He doesn't want his son to find out, you know Um, what's your opinion of spider-man 3 just curious. I thought it was pretty terrible I think rags is the same on that and I I think chris is the same on that as well It's bad Spider-man 3's theme is about revenge redemption and inner conflict. Um, I think yeah There's a lot of themes going on in that film. I would argue this is like a lot of stuff about morality And the theme of ruining a trilogy Spider-man 3 had too many villains like the dark knight and infinity war Infinity war doesn't know there's only got the one villain. I mean it's got like sub villains. I suppose you could call them Also dark knight had multiple villains. Oh, I guess I had two face I mean it's pretty focused on the joker. Why didn't he mention ebit's opinion on spider-man 2? Because that would have gotten in the way This is the worst nitpicking fake analysis ever We're pretty much on similar page Um, maybe jayna's daddy issues. It makes sense. Yep a gag reel shows ramy giving directions to the actor who did jj Clearly jjj is a character by ramy not made up by an actor who played clapped to ramy I'm sure it's a product of Not just the actor and the writing as well because it's it's very well put together The best part of spider-man 3 was bruce campbell. Absolutely. The french thing is ridiculous. That's probably offensive now thinking about it I'll give a shit with the frog Watch his tlj video. He doesn't take a side. I mean we have been asked to watch that one I I still haven't seen it. Um, mary jane watson is just being human. I'm patrick williams and I approve this message Do you not take a side in the holocaust? Is that what last jedi is to you rags? You hyperbolic Purser dog. How dare you million down votes All right, maybe alone in this be a predator review is my favorite video of yours must have watched it 32 times We're now glad you enjoyed it. That film was ridiculously awful. Um pizza time Spider-man 1 with great power comes great responsibility spider-man 2 you have to give your dreams up for the greater good spider-man 3 Forgiveness redemption and inner conflict spider-man homecoming. I don't feel so good daddy stack It's a interesting way to summarize it. Uh, as a fad of ramy, they're all the same, but good 1 2 3 I I just think the 2 is way better than 3 and that There's so much to talk about for um Breaking down why in terms of structure. Uh, why aliens are even considered strange in fiction We know less than 1% of our galaxy let alone universe. There's plenty of space for any writer Won't catch me disagreeing. I guess he's saying there's a bit much to throw on with the rest of the stuff in the film Yeah, also aliens Uh, the dance scene makes perfect sense. If I'm that confident, I'll do it at the point Uh, black venom soup pizza not given a fuck at all. I mean, I don't think anyone says it doesn't make sense It's more just hilarious. So silly. Yeah Uh, ramy spider-man competed with star wars. Oh, yeah, it would have come out at a similar time, wouldn't it? 2002 was star wars episode 2. I actually think because 99 was phantom menace 2002 was yeah What were their release dates? Oh, I don't know But um, similar years. Let's just say next dark knight trilogy is worse than you remember I could see it making that that could happen. I'd watch 300 hours of molla doing his accents green goblin from Did I remember green goblin from spider-man q Spider-man, uh, when high intelligent people go mad, they talk like green goblin from spider-man one I mean, I didn't have a problem with it. I just thought it was willem de faul losing his mind Which is what it is. So Remy balanced perfectly comedy and drama between fiction and realism just like the ot of the star wars any hipster can see part of it Uh, one and two are better than homecoming and comic accurate Again, I wouldn't know. I haven't read the comics. Unfortunately Uh, new fab for work tomorrow morning. How the fuck did you get chief from my last my name lost if what hang on How the fuck did you get chief from my name lost ifap and google does not like the no no word Oh saint chef. Did I really read that as chief that I may have been, you know, I know he said chief Okay, I have no idea. I had an idea the star wars fans should have an odd light Summit in order to elect an alternative canon out of the lucas movies and select quality eu stories thoughts Canon only means what it means to you in terms of like It's the official canon. There's canon in your mind. There's canon of what's been decanonized. It's very Very complicated, but for me, it's just whoever owns the ip and makes more stuff in it. I suppose that's the continued story um But thank you all very much for the generous donations. Are you folks ready for that other video if I can Find it. Um, give me a moment. We still know it is Yeah, I'm intrigued now I'll have to go on my youtube history because I'm pretty sure I pulled it up. It's gonna be I mean Patrick Wilms did a pretty good one. So I'm sure this this one's gonna be a great follow-up, right? You guys you guys just don't seem very optimistic about I don't know Yeah, it's called why plot holes don't matter Okay, right, which is You know a part of what Patrick says, but it's not quite what he titled. He said shut up about plot holes, which That went well, didn't it? Uh Multi python holy grail to campy zero Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at when we don't nobody watches the multi python holy grail says I can't really get into this It's too cat. Well, they can say it, but it wouldn't be anything beyond subjective that they they pulled out My plot holes don't matter So you guys you guys all good to go your plot holes don't matter. Yeah We've never I don't think we've covered someone this small in terms of youtubers So do we need to say that uh, we don't we don't endorse kicking down their door and Blowing their head off. Don't don't hate on the dude. Don't be mean. It doesn't matter what he says Don't be mean. Well, I don't know about that Oh, well, I mean if he says like I will say I will say don't be mean I will say that I will make my judgment. I I will say that I I give as I uh get And I'm gonna say let's just watch the movie and be happy. Okay. They're nice and happy Lord rings my god After a grand total of seven rewrites 11 months of thinking and a great many hours spent slamming my head into the keyboard Hoping word Uh, I'm actually sure if the tfa videos have been 11 months. It's been since Since the tfa rage, that's where you could count it from so it's coming up to half a year. I think or more than that This is 17 minutes Well, it's gonna be a fucking good 17 minutes there, isn't it 11 months and seven rewrites Let's do it That's from the clumps of gibberish that my forehead just bashed into existence I bring you the final script in video form for what is definitely the hardest thing I've ever tried to explain ladies and gentlemen, are you religious because I'd like to introduce you to my religion It's called plot holes. Do not matter and it is very aptly titled Oh, man. I'm just like what argument are you gonna have this is not gonna work Yeah, like we already know this argument for we know it shit. It's a religion. It doesn't need documents It's kind of sad to hear that he's like this is my religion I spent seven rewrites in 11 months on what we know is going to be a shitty fucking point If he's actually setting up this is going to be faith-based to be like, oh Okay, anyway, let's let's see Wait a second you spent seven rewrites in 11 months and you put a space between the apostrophe and the t and don't Rags is such a nitpicker. He's like doesn't use to arguments. He just says mean things about people my god Yeah, that is weird. That might just that actually might just be the lettering difference But it does look like a space Why plot holes don tomato I hate to be that guy who leads off with an anecdote But this video is impossible to structure So sue me when I was in ninth grade after we had finished reading the most dangerous game the short story by richard connell We were discussing the slightly ambiguous ending of the story and how the use of the term on guard at the end Implies that the characters fought with swords. What do they get the swords? I wonder isn't it on God as an e n I believe it is on guard. Yeah It's minus thing a rde. I think Which yeah, it is g a rde, right? Yeah, I think so. It does. Yeah, I guess it does translate to that in english Yeah, would that be true? I'm guessing it's true video sucks already. Wow Anyway, anyway Characters fought with swords. Where did they get the swords? I wondered aloud and then immediately my teacher turned to me and said that's what you're worried about You're fine with the character who became so good at hunting animals that he decided to hole up in a chateau on an island And hunt human beings instead, but you're hung up on where they got the swords It made me stop and think because it was basically a direct A shitty teacher maybe there was a reason for why they have this because I read the book too But the story too, but it was a long time ago and I don't remember it I think it's depending on the context. That could be a very valid question Yeah, but it also could be valid to say why you're concerned with a smaller plot hole compared to a huge plot hole If that's the case. I have no idea maybe Comparison of what some might consider a plot hole to the reason we should be fine with plot holes in the first place I like so many others who read and enjoyed the most dangerous game was perfectly willing to accept the absurdity Of what was occurring because of a little thing called suspension of disbelief stories are often concerned with I could believe you guys know the you know, you guys know the story I've never heard of this story. I'm on a dangerous game is basically about this old creepy guy who lives on an island And he lures ships to crash into the island so that he can hunt them down because humans are the most dangerous game And they must escape from him as he gets his thrills by hunting them down in the on the island So he could have brought a sword to the island or he could have got one from one of the ships Yeah, correct. So there's plenty of good explanations. So Yeah, I think it's for example, um, Harry has daggers in his room in spider-man. I should be like I didn't need to know Okay, so I can believe that You know Are we gonna say that he shouldn't be concerned with those questions because there is an answer But is that his point? But sometimes that is a legitimate question I I think his point is just that he asked at the time and that got him thinking about it Yeah, I think he's gonna he's gonna come to a conclusion about how none of it matters. Maybe Red enjoyed the most dangerous game was perfectly willing to accept the absurdity of what was occurring because of a little thing called Suspension of disbelief stories are often concerned with showing us the spectacular or showing us mundanity in a highly entertaining way In order to be engaging stories tend to tackle the impossible the Improbable and the other extremes of reality and we want to enjoy stories So suspending our disbelief of these extremes is kind of the price of entry. That's just how why wouldn't you do? There's a lot there. Um, yeah, I I would say that there's nothing in like star wars that I couldn't Well, he said like extremes extreme things happen in real life like I'm confused a little bit there I'm gonna let it go There's a limit to suspension of belief though, but he's probably gonna elaborate on that I'm assuming this is all going towards some other points. So we'll just wait for that one. I think it works Stories operate with givens They'll give us information such as in this world dueling with laser swords is a viable way to go about fighting Or there are giant naked monsters that eat people and soldiers kill them with grappling hooks and swords Even simple stuff like the main character is eccentric and weird in this particular way If you're not willing to buy into that then the story cannot operate But if you're familiar with the concept of suspension of disbelief Then you're probably familiar with the idea that it can be broken something within the narrative will trigger a reaction Why did you play that clip? That was from code gas as well. It's just kind of Yeah, he played played the the cathedral scene from cowboy bebop I don't know that it feels like these are just clips from fiction is kind of what he's going to watch both of those animos You do we can't comment even though. I haven't seen cowboy. So why uh, why is it relevant? They's playing those clips I have well the code gas clip is him using his gear on someone Which basically when he uses a gear on someone they they'll do anything that he says I mean he says like suspension disbelief is broken. So there's probably something there that you can connect, but it's a little bit weird All right, okay I have no idea why he would obviously the matrix clip works because it's coming out of the matrix You come out of this suspension of disbelief. Yeah, I can see something there. Okay. Where is he? Let's see where he's going with this suspension of disbelief Then you're probably familiar with the idea that it can be broken Something within the narrative will trigger a reaction in your mind that will take you out of the story And make you unwilling to dive back in but what does this what breaks suspension of disbelief? Ask most people and they'll hit you with that classic logical argument If the story doesn't make a logical sense or in other words If there's plot holes, then it breaks suspension of disbelief and ruins the experience inconsistency is what I say Yeah, and this applies to literally everything. So that's Accuracy will building characters like just just everything Yeah, even even when things appear to be inconsistent in the real world We know that something's wrong and we stop and have to reanalyze just and it's not It's not like I'm saying there needs to be 10 once there's 10 I'm out It's literally no it can be whatever because it's just me and for you guys it'll be different for everyone else It'll be different Is it just inconsistency though? Or is it that there isn't a like a logical or causal chain between events? Well, there's a difference between like a plot hole and like a contrivance Well, contrivance is unlikely, isn't it? Yeah, well plot holes impossible whereas a plot hole is meant to be impossible Uh, yes. Yeah, well Basically, so you what will be an example of a time Would be pulling you out of the film, but it's not about consistency out of curiosity because that's what I What I'm trying to say is I wouldn't call it being logical I would call it being consistent because it can't be illogical but consistent. Oh, yeah. Yeah All right See where he's going with this But this doesn't really add up because there are popular highly regarded critically acclaimed stories out there that are So riddled with logical errors and things that don't make sense that it would be almost funny if it mattered Some of these plot holes are they do matter to some people. It depends Yeah, it just depends. I hate to say the word context, but we're gonna say that like throughout this whole thing But if somebody doesn't feel like a plot hole ruins it for them, then they will have a higher, you know They'll think more high of the film And this is why discussion is good. So when people say like like Patrick Williams where he referenced how people say that it's a It's a plot contrivance that it's so easy to knock out the death star It's like that it's accepted. It's like, well, hang on There's things to discuss there like it doesn't it's not definitive And the idea that it's like if we all accepted that that was a plot contrivance Then therefore you can't enjoy star wars, right? If you if you have a problem with logical inconsistencies with other films It's like, well, it's about how big and how many as well. Yeah, it's a complicated To try and lock it down to one statement. It's pretty difficult considering there's so much difference in all these different pieces of media Also hasn't had a copyright claim from all the Lord of the Rings music And I agree with some of the people in the chairs like this Lord of the Rings music is a bit distracting sometimes Just like sort of But the film's still up. He just doesn't make revenue from a content idea. Yeah Which means we might get that on this episode, which will be fun, but hey As long as it's still up, we'll be fine, which you can fight and win, but you know true true They're kind of famous Lord of the Rings. Why don't they just use the eagles? They could the Nazgul I was gonna say wolf and many many others have provided a lot of counter arguments for that You got to explore you can't just say it's definitive um But yeah, the eagles don't like to get involved. Generally, do they? I can't remember if they get involved for a little bit in the hobbit, but then they go no, this is as far as we're gonna take you Yeah, it's not definitively stated But they they do try to imply because they only arrive once Because they do attack the Nazgul They like have a little bit of a war in the skies just before Sauron's destroyed and then once Sauron is destroyed They come and pick up these two which the implication being they would get Ripped apart if they were to come in before then Yeah, maybe This is everyone's go-to plot hole as well. Yeah, this is like one of the most I don't consider that an actual plot hole for me. It's It's murky. I don't think it's definitive. I am I need I would need more dialogue just to just to shove it away But I don't think it's a definitive contradiction because there's stuff to infer it's a bit complicated But um, yeah, I wouldn't reference this for like a definitive plot hole There's better ones just use the eagles. There's no explanation as to why they could for example. Have you guys seen lupa? I have so the I haven't the whole oh lupa. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, the premise being These lupas exist because you can't kill people in the future You have to send them back in time to be killed to submit whatever system they have in the future And then the entire conflict of the film begins because of someone's killed in the future If you remember the wife is just casually murdered and it's like wait guys That's supposed to be like impossible in the future was okay. Whatever apparently you could just do that Sorry, I don't I haven't actually seen the film. But isn't it that people think that it's impossible Well, it's just said that that's why the lupus the system exists is because you can't kill people You have to send them back in time to kill them, which to be honest That raises some questions anyway Because they It's tricky Why does everyone just forget about the one ring when a silder dies, why did the They didn't forget about it. They just couldn't find it Yeah, I don't I don't think anyone knew about it really and then it it says at the beginning of the fellowship it passed into Legend and then miss. Yeah. Yeah I don't mean it was it was buried under some some of the Thousands of years past and he would have floated on in that river For a while. So if you go, oh, it's gonna be where his body is like there's a lot a lot of searcher to do And that's if you're aware of it, which I don't think they were Yeah So, yeah, I'm a bit of a bit of a strange one talk in the hobbit, but not in the original trilogy How was way way way? Let's go back Why did the trolls talk in the hobbit but not in the original trilogy? Well, that doesn't mean they can't talk in the original They just didn't talk Who didn't talk? He's saying that it's weird that the trolls talk in the hobbit, but they don't talk in the orderings trilogy But the thing is the only ones we see though in the Lord the Rings trilogy are the ones that have been brutalized Yeah, and they're under control if I remember correctly And they don't speak in the books either. They speak in the hobbit, but they don't speak in the orderings books And we could talk about how the hobbit is More of a kid's story than Lord the Rings is I don't know if that that fact is in but the other the other fact of is that a hobbit problem? Or is that a Lord the Rings problem? And I don't even think it's a problem No, I don't think it's a problem either because they were under they were under Sauron's control while those those guys were just wandering around getting food Basically, they're not the same as the trolls that live in the mountains Also, that's another thing. Isn't it like you get cave trolls mountain trolls, whatever trolls. Yeah, they're all different forest trolls Exactly. Not all trolls are the same Hashtag the old trolls Spider despite all these glare troll is matter Sorry, let's go back a bit. I'm originally planning on getting into Mordor before each Changed his mind and decided to send Frodo to the spider despite all these things around Sorry, I'm missing the point there. Why does everyone just forget about the one ring when a silder dies? Why did the trolls talk in the hobbit but not in the original trilogy? How was golem originally planning on getting into Mordor before he changed his mind and decided to send Frodo to the spider? Well, I guess the point would have been that they would sneak through Shilob Did did they tell him that they were trying to get into Mordor? Or just get two Mordor Because he takes them he takes them to the black gate and then they try and get in and he's like guys. What the fuck are you doing? We're going around. Well, he's I can't remember exactly He's implying here that the only way to Kirithungal and eventually Mordor was to go through Shilob's lair But golem took them through there after deciding he wanted to kill them It wasn't necessarily that there was no other way that you could have literally climbed over Shilob's lair or gone by the side We don't know because golem's goal is to kill them at that point He's implying that you had to go through Shilob's lair and if even if so golem knows how to get through there safely Because he does And Frodo nearly does right So Yeah, I don't think that's that's a weird one but hey seven rewrites Despite all these glaring logical errors lord of the rings is still upheld as a they're not glaring logical You said you shouldn't have started out by saying seven rewrite And not only that even if these were legitimate glaring logical errors There are plenty of people who would say they would have gotten pulled out Thanks that there probably are people who said they got pulled out lord of the rings because of these things If they understood that stood them this way Yeah, and there are people who think that's something as a plot hole Even if it isn't then it can still take away from the film And it's weird because this is the same logic that patrick williams did use He said that there's that plot hole in alien with the acid But yet alien is considered a classic film But it's like okay one not a plot hole two even if that were a plot hole that doesn't destroy the entire film The presence of a singular plot hole does not now mean you are the same as a film with a hundred plot holes It's not the same No The must watch masterpiece of cinema and with good reason lord of the rings is great and the alternate opinion is Extremely rare, but if suspension of disbelief in the story is so easily and commonly broken How are these movies enjoyable at all? That's complicated There's a huge difference between being able to like enjoy something and pointing out its flaws And also the fact that it has flaws doesn't mean that it's not enjoyable Yeah, I think there is a difference I mean suspension disbelief is very subjective You can point out every single thing wrong with the last Jedi and there are plenty of people who won't be affected by it And that's fine because that's how it works Is there anybody who's legitimately saying that they think the lord of the rings is shit and they don't enjoy it Because of the eagles thing. There's got to be someone. There's probably someone on the internet, but not many Yeah, maybe but not many if it's if it's possible. It's happened. That's one of the laws. I can't remember who's laws of the internet now Reason lord of the rings is great and the alternate opinion is extremely rare But if suspension of disbelief in the story is so easily and commonly broken How are these movies enjoyable at all? You would think that if you're not buying into the story, it would be pretty difficult for you to have fun watching it But maybe lord of the rings is some kind of exception. So let's shift gears for a second and look at a story Well, no, it's all about how you weigh it up Like because a couple of flaws in a film again doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad film and you can't Get into it and it's just it's a shit film Like it's all about the particular film and how many plot holes there are and how bad they are And like yeah, like maybe lord of the rings is exception I was surprised didn't throw on like a reason Is he just saying that that's something that he's okay with that it's his exception I think I think we'd all We'd all agree on that though Well, I mean, I would just say that the good in lord of the rings far outweighs any bad far outweighs There are flaws in the films, but they are bloody amazing considering all of the great filmmaking elements of it So, yeah, I guess we'll move on Lee considered to be absolute garbage in part because of its plot holes Uh-oh What I don't know what this is that's gonna be a problem In the many years since its release professional internet intellectuals have torn sordid online to pieces from pretty much every angle Including one of their apparent So any three of us seen sordid online No, I've heard it's I I watched three episodes about Or like six episodes about seven years ago. So I've I've just heard that it's Not good. I've heard that it's terrible. We're gonna have to This is a world first refap. We're gonna have to see what chat says in response to his points We'll have to see how it goes. This should be fun We're saying kill this and oh no kill this Oh, no, please. No, and people are saying sort out online really Someone said the first episode was neat his opinions are in Grace for impact. They're saying the fact that he's talking about lord of the rings and then All right, let's let's see what he has to say Hold up. Hold up. Hold up appabend. Is it appabend says that sordid art online is the call of duty of anime? So that's I will I will I will take appabend's opinion wait if appabend has seen it We could have him jump in just to help us. It's like the normie Lowest comment denominator anime appabend could save us here if he's seen it Let me get him in. Oh, he's right there. He's right there. Boom Well, you didn't even ask if he's okay with it. Fuck you appabend get your ass in here and tell us about the animes Fuck you I don't care if you're on discord get in discord. You can hear me on the stream You're listening like imagine like he's in work on his phone If you were at work and quit your job It says he's online in discord. You can't run away from me Looks like by the way. Is he there? No, he's not there. Oh You will you will come into the call as soon as you can to explain to us the The animes the animus We don't understand that but we need your help Uh I'm not way up enough for this. Yeah, no neither am I neither is rags even all four of us. Oh Hello cheese Geez guys, you're calling in a very bad time Play brags. I didn't do this to you. I didn't make you that I invited you So why why the hell you the guy was just talking about Plot holes and blurred rings and then sort out online Well, I'm sure he's gonna say that I have no idea. We need to know what sort of online is. Are you able to jump in or are you busy? Well, uh, I'm a little busy, uh, because I have I have a stream 30 minutes from now I'll probably rate it later on. Uh, anyway sort out online is The call of duty of anime essentially It's the mainstream popular anime that a lot of people have been talking and a lot of people just it's average basically it's just mediocre and I don't know. I need to hear what this guy's saying Well, I was gonna say if you go do you have 20 minutes you could speak? It's probably gonna be a couple minutes. So I'm gonna talk about this. Sure. Sure. We'll get you in All right. Click the yeah click the link there And the discord room everybody nobody's saying it's good No one no one is saying it's good, especially the first season It does it does get better, but slightly it's kind of like this Much there we go someone someone saying that he made this video to defend his crappy anime Oh Guys the real reason he made this video was to defend his crappy anime But but but we'll see we'll see we'll see we all good everybody ready. We'll see yes. Yep. All right Okay, it's attacking the non-existent logic of the plot and pointing out every little oh wait Let's let's go back just a bit make sure we've caught. Yes. Let's go go back to the Comes content ID climb. Yeah another one here since it's released professional internet intellectuals have torn sorted online Two pieces from pretty much every angle including one of their apparent favorites attacking the non-existent logic of the plot And pointing out every little hole they can find don't get me wrong I'm not about to defend saos bland characterization awkward pacing and rampant obsession with sexualizing and then sexually harassing It's many females, but I am going to argue that maybe the plot holes aren't the reason this show is regarded as such a dumpster Okay, wait a second. I need to pause for a bit. Why is it's not playing in my end. That's really weird Hurt you where are you? Is it playing at 353 now? Okay, okay. Okay. It's playing now. What what I got from him just then was the He's he's about to explain what the real problems with saor versus the plot holes because the plot holes aren't the real problem Oh, god Shorted online two pieces from pretty much every angle including one of their apparent favorites attacking the We're here in the video three years ago Yeah, okay. Okay. Sorry. Oh echo on my beat. All right, wait a second. Yes Okay, thank you. Okay. Okay Selectuals have torn sordid online two pieces from pretty much every angle including one of their apparent favorites attacking the non-existent logic Of the plot and pointing out every little hole they can find don't get me wrong No The main criticism for sordid online is the characters are not that great the story is really weak The first half it kind of builds up second half was just total mess and Well, I don't know like if you just think about sordid online There's a lot more issues if people are pointing out plot holes after plot holes after plot holes Those are very minor plot holes Uh, but the overall issue with sordid online is the fact that the plot overall is just really not that great And the characters are not likeable. So I don't know what this guy's talking about. Isn't that but isn't that his point Isn't that what he's trying to say he's trying to say that those are the reasons why it's so bad and not the plot holes I mean, uh, i'm you saying it's a combo happen I I don't know because because I think he's trying I he's over exaggerating the problems. Now what people are pointing out I think he's trying to uh Make make that the plot hole problem is a lot bigger than Uh, what people are propagating out. Anyway, um, I think I'm just passing in wrong I'm not about to defend sao's bland characterization Awkward pacing and rampant obsession with sexualizing and then sexually harassing. It's many females, but I am I mean, I I don't know. I haven't seen it. So I'm just like Okay, okay sordid online sexually harassing its females It's very mild in in the terms in the anime realms What sordid online did to the female characters are very mild. It's usually sexual humor. It's usually jokes Yet this guy's bothered, I guess But I can't recall a time where I am like, oh Oh my god, this character does this sexually harassing thing and this is completely unacceptable It's not goblin slayer where the goblin just freaking rape everybody. I knew that was gonna come in as a reference But but Sordid online is pretty tame In terms of sexually harassing the women. I mean damn this guy I'm going to argue that maybe the plot holes aren't the reason this show is regarded as such a dumpster fire One of the more popular complaints is that it doesn't make any sense for kirito to be able to save yui His adopted ai daughter as an in-game object when given access to the game's code And that it also doesn't make any sense that he wouldn't just log everyone out of the game if he had access to it However, when saoa bridge came along and did the exact same thing nobody batted an ai You know why because saoa bridge is an absolutely phenomenal show. It goes beyond Wait, oh I got nothing. I have no idea Wait, wait, wait, wait a second Wait, wait a second A bridge if you guys don't know a bridge are Parodies. Yeah parodies aren't they? They're parodies. Um How can It's it's basically a Look at chat. Look at chat right now. Yeah Wow Okay, if you guys are not familiar with a bridge It's basically like the honest trailer of animes like an anime bridge. They're basically From plot one. They're just doing a very honest trailer sort of mockery of the anime's plot And just summing it up in like nine nine or ten minutes. It's an a bridge version. How can How can this guy seriously think that I mean don't I mean don't get me wrongs a lot of times The a bridge version is a lot million times better, but It's usually because it's the humor not because of the plot So basically his point is that when it was done in a parody nobody cared because it was a parody Which is yeah, so what yeah, that's what I'm grasping you. I don't understand what his point is Is the parody like taken seriously dramatically or is it just funny? I I don't know what I don't know what this kid's point is. I think he's I think he's trying to say that the parody's plot is better which is um Yeah, because it makes fun of the original and pokes the holes in the original. I mean Seven rewrites though Oh poor appas lives might this guy said he had seven rewrites in 11 months Uh, yeah, maybe that was a joke I don't know why the video started out as he said that after seven rewrites and 11 months of work and a bunch of technical issues he got this made Yeah, I think is what he said And anyway, I kind of missed like the first four minutes of the video What does he say that why plot holes don't matter? Have we gone into that point yet? Well, one of the points he made was that they're in Lord of the Rings and people like Lord of the Rings, so Except the way examples that he discussed were really bad. Mm-hmm Um, this is not even a good point. Anyway, I don't I don't I don't get it because I I recently watched Lord of the Rings and it's it's freaking amazing But if people complain about the plot holes, I mean sure there are there you can find it But it's not it's not gonna destroy my enjoyment to the film. I mean Anyway, I think we should just carry on with this Instead really just using SAO as a basis to create its own much better story And while it does poke fun at and solve a couple of SAO's plot holes such as having the players Be aware of that Wait I'd say that's important. He just suggests that the abridge version solved the plot. It's not official Oh my god It's not the official work. How can he solve the plot hole? Uh fan fiction has historically solved plot holes Yeah So abridge basically is like fan made or community made Yeah, it's like saying honest trailer fixed the plot hole of the last jedi Oh Anyway continue instead really just using SAO as a basis to create its own much better story And while it does poke fun at and solve a couple of SAO's plot holes Such as having the players be aware of the fact that the game they're playing is as irreparably broken as jeff says it is It leaves this one untouched and nobody cared SAO I'm sure someone cared Yeah, because it says SAO abridged parody In the title People know it's a parody going in Yeah, so they don't care Yeah, yeah, this is such a strange example because You need so much more information and the fact that he's just admitted by the way that several plot holes have been removed or fixed Implying that the overall quality has gone up By you know assuming so of course people would have less of a problem if if things have been repaired No one what I find absolutely baffling is that He actually put the abridge version of the anime Which is the parody version that mocks the plot holes that mocks its inconsistencies Alongside the original anime likes as a comparison and actually saying the abridge version fixes the plot hole. I'm It's not supposed to fix plot hole. It's supposed to like parody the entire anime But apparently the abridge version also has the plot hole First off who the hell criticizes plot holes in abridge versions in anime It's like going to on it's again It's like going to honest trailer and like pointing out the logical inconsistencies in the honest trailer like What's the point? It's the it's a I think it's a huge straw man that the guy's trying to pull here that This what what you're we're doing what we're picking up the plot holes in a bridge version is Somehow the same to say picking up the plot holes in the last jedi Yeah, the definitely different context Yeah Abridge is super popular and widely acclaimed But maybe this is simply the result of people assuming that the failings of sao abridged must have come as a result of the inflexibility of the original sao as source material So let's look at one last example one that I feel is the most telling in digi bro's massive video Psycho pass versus psycho pass to what happened? Okay, okay stop for the record psycho pass one is better psycho pass two Why does this guy use anime that he likes anime? I guess I guess yeah, he likes anime But why would he use anime as as an example? Because from what I've seen in terms of the plot hole source of discussion It's always going to be related to western stuff. That's why I don't talk about anime In like my video about plot hole because if I do talk about anime people are gonna be like confused and everything like that Like whoa, that's a huge leap And I you would think he would choose i'm not saying it's not like mainstream But you you think you would choose something a little more I guess like I guess mainstream kind of is the word more popular or well known or So I need to create a stronger baseline because a lot of people are just being like I haven't seen this Wait, wait a second somebody in the chat said I'm up by the side of the water when talking about the abridged version of things a bridge series can have their own inconsistencies that can be incorrect I'm not saying that they can't honest There are a lot of honest trailers that I have flawed logics as well a bridge versions also have their flawed logic as well but pointing out the logic of an abridge series is about as pointless as say picking apart the logical inconsistencies of A melbrooks film or airplane for example Like you don't you just don't you don't do that It has parody in the title Yeah Yeah, there's a lot of context to this it's just gonna fall especially after lord the rings like as comparisons go Bit confusing as you guys all know lord of the rings will sort out online and psychopath Anyway, this is a section of the video where he dies into the many logical holes and errors in the second season of psychopaths with a brief discussion about suspension of disbelief It's here that he essentially states that while there may have been plot holes in the first season of psychopaths He failed to notice or be bothered by any because he because psychopaths one was pretty good Yeah, psychopaths two was just overall Not great. So that just means it didn't bother him yeah Which isn't a counter argument Uh to the to their existence and it also the problem is we don't have enough information I don't know how bad they are in psychopaths one or how many there are there compared to the second season assuming it's seasons um Yeah, I think you guys should watch the video for For airing this on stream glad that I jumped in It's like we should totally just watch all these adbays to how to start this video. It's like, hmm It's not worth it. Yeah, I watch spider-man three, but we gotta draw we gotta draw a line somewhere Out of all the enemies here that he's Had to be showing psychopaths one is the only one to recommend and even that one I haven't finished but anyway, he invested in and engaged by the storytelling However, the second season of psychopath shattered his suspension of disbelief because he wasn't engaged by the storytelling Maybe it wouldn't have happened if I'd been more interested in the story or characters Or if the presentation had lived up to that in the first season, whatever That sounds like did you bro? I think is that I don't know but I mean I have a feeling I know where he's going now Which is that he's pointed out the this guy has said Plot holes only matter to me if you know, it wouldn't have mattered as much if the story and characters were better And so is he gonna conclude then it's just it's just about how much you like the characters in the story Plot holes don't actually matter. They're only used when people aren't invested in the story and the character I have a feeling that's going to be the conclusion here. I'll have to see Failed to engage me with its storyline I found myself thinking more about its many logical fallacies than I did about its main narrative In other words, even if the first season had plot holes and logical errors He would be willing to overlook them because it told an exceptional story with exceptional presentation that kept him wholeheartedly invested Is the story exceptional if it has plot holes in it? Yeah, how does that work? Even best case scenario It's good despite it I mean, yeah, I'm not saying I'm not saying one plot hole just just makes the story bad automatically. I'm saying like if this got some I'm trying to think of just an example, but uh My brain is like use the last Jedi. It's like I can't use something else like Just just you know Typical hero villain story and they villain has that the girl let's just say and the hero is like I have no idea where they are and then some guy just Throws him a phone. It's like I threw a tracker on him and he's like who are you and he's like just Doesn't matter and he runs away And then you know the ending can happen and it's a really good ending, but it's just like what the hell Like that's how he found him is just some guy One When peter parker wakes up after being bitten He he breaks the lamp with his spider web It shatters and ant may comes up to check on him because of the noise And in a scene when he closes the door the lamp is still there Unbroken films ruined So like that is a rude like that So that doesn't rule obviously doesn't ruin the film. It's just one of those Yeah, that's a and that's you know I think we just highlighted the difference between insignificant and significant ones. It really depends on the context That's how much this can damage a film or its storyline. Anyway, who cares if the lamp is still there Unless he ends up using the lamp to save his life later on the film. We're like, didn't he destroy that lamp like, okay But since the second season told a lackluster story with lackluster presentation That did not garner investment from him at all the plot holes are suddenly glaring and a huge problem Do you see what i'm getting at? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, let me let me let me let me explain the context now uh from what i've heard from people's opinions and psychopaths The main issue with psychopaths too Is that the story deviates itself from the original sci-fi sorts of atmosphere Into a more sci-fi to fantasy sorts of Route and that's why a lot of people like not they're not really on board with the chains Basically, if if uh, are you guys familiar with true detective? It's kind of like going to the first season to the second season True detective. No, it's not it's a team. No, no, that's not I don't know Oh, you don't know. Uh, how about how much strangers stranger things from the first season to the second season Uh, like from the first season was really good. Everybody loved it and in the second season is uh It's almost like a genre shift I would pull sex season garbage controversially, but I mean, I'll I'll let the check it bad at me for that one baby. I don't know Super natural stuff to what used to be this very grounded sort of No attempt like if people in like ghost in the shell started using magic Yeah That's an anime. I know of so there pattern seems clear to me We as a collective audience only really seem to care about plot holes and logical inconsistencies when the story is bad But they don't seem to have an effect on the generally accepting quality But the thing is there's a difference. There's a there's a there's a big difference between when people Uh, actually care about the plot holes and whether or not they do matter like whether they are flaws Like the reason people overlook flaws and stuff like the the rings is because it's otherwise it's amazing So of course people aren't really going to care that much about the the little things. Yeah, doesn't mean they're not necessarily flaws It's all out of order too. We don't only focus on plot holes on the on the bad things Things are bad because of the plot holes oftentimes Like you just don't you just don't like food because it tastes bad, you know It's one of those things like if we're criticizing something obviously the plot holes are going to be brought up Yeah, you know what I agree with Patrick I don't like the focus the plot holes get but not for the same reason Uh, I hate the people who are defending crappy films are like stop focusing plot holes It's like we don't we do lots of things. Plot holes is just one of them Yes I want this guy to move on from anime here. Jesus Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, ET, The Matrix, Harry Potter, The Dark Knight All these stories are famously excellent and they all have plot holes Some of them are big super noticeable plot holes. So how have these so he's just recognized that there's a difference between the big and small then Okay, not gonna elaborate on that. I don't think Why don't you raise the saying here? They have if their logic isn't necessarily sound Well, it's because those minor logical details are surface level and irrelevant to how a story functions Think about it compared to characterization. It might be it might also not be yeah Like the title of this should be why plot holes don't matter unless they do Yeah, because the thing is about we're talking if we're talking about plot holes It's very specific to specific films. There are some films that are that have a lot of plot holes Uh, but are actually pretty good overall people really enjoy it Uh, the even really good films that a lot of people universally love they do have plot holes But if there are a lot of films also that have plot holes that are incredibly glaring so So Patrick Williams said this in his video, which is one of the reasons it was so shit Because his video was stopped caring about plot holes where he said plot holes don't matter and at the same time he says except sometimes they do And he says that plot holes are surface level criticism, but that's not necessarily true Yeah, it's not true at all that it's plot plot isn't really surface level turns out there's nuance to uh Plot holes. It's not just plot holes and you've got them all that's all of them are in there that little definition It's just yes all plot holes. That's what they are They're just this one thing and they either they matter though they don't there's no in between Thematic poignancy propulsive plot structure and even all the other non-story related stuff Why why full metal alchemist brotherhood or full metal alchemist is in there? That's weird and black panther Think about it compared to characterization thematic poignancy propulsive plot structure and even all the other non All of these things can be affected by plot holes. Yes. Yeah, it's possible Yeah, and even if they're not It doesn't mean that plot holes aren't a problem in themselves Yeah, you're tackling the things the plot holes even if you were tackling the things the plot holes do not affect Doesn't mean you've tackled everything to do with the film or story writing Uh, so somebody asked a very good very good point and it's a very good question. It's at um, would you point out the plot holes in the room? There's no point. Well that entire film is a plot hole. So I mean seriously Yeah, you would you would point out the plot holes in the room because it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? I mean you could if you wanted but you didn't have to but nobody is seriously saying that the room is a good film Yeah, like it's it's so bad that it's good, but it's gonna be one guy like bob somewhere He's just like no, i thought he was good Tommy, why is that? How the room is worse than you remember Yeah, these are all things that make up a film including plot holes or plot I should say Yeah, sometimes they're good. Sometimes they're bad. Sometimes they're important. Sometimes they're tiny Lot logic seems especially small in terms of the effect that we'll have on the audience during the first viewing And it's the effect on the audience that matter How the hell can you fucking measure the effect on the audience is completely subjective? How do you measure that? It has an effect on individuals so You can ask that's why a lot of people don't have problems with the lord of the rings Even if they think that the eagle thing is a plot hole Because to them and that's meaningless as well. Oh, it's about the journey. It's like, oh, it's We're basing this entirely on how audiences react to it emotionally. It's like so that's not really grounded in anything that Yeah, so different people will say completely different things and there's no truth to the mode Kind of kind of pointless in order to do that to have an effect on the audience as intended The story must function whether or not it makes the logical sense has nothing to do with that In what universe does something function if it's illogical? This is this is exactly what Patrick Williams said as well Yeah, if it functions, but it's illogical we have question. We have a function issue Yes, we have an issue It it doesn't work in that incongruity those things not matching up and it seems to me that he's saying Functionality is based on whether someone likes it Whether someone was taken in or taken out by it Which to me is just nonsense like well, yeah, everything's functional then because there's someone on the planet who liked it somewhere What does he mean by the matter has the fact of the matter has nothing to do with if it's noticed or not? Yeah, what does he mean by functional? Does it just mean that there is a scene and then there's another scene and things happen? I think so because yeah, I mean that is well, it's not I'd say that's not functional But it is stuff that happens, but that's not a plot It's a very bad plot Damn Function no one enjoys a story because of the a to b logic of the plot they enjoy them What do you yes, there are people who enjoy the fact that yeah People appreciate. Yeah, people definitely appreciate. It's called cause and effect. It's a very important part to storytelling people Like when things match up. Yeah, I think for a lot of people It's one of those things where if it's not happening It it takes them out of it and they and they can't enjoy it whereas when it's happening. They don't notice it Maybe it's like someone punches a guy. We expect that guy to react if he just starts eating a packet of crisps. We're like, um Okay, that didn't make much sense and then he's like you don't watch them to make sense You just like Brains just fried at that point Because of the emotion that stories instill in them and that's the key word emotion stories are emotional experiences Their objective is to get you to feel to translate empathy to yeah, so if it makes Wait, wait a second. I do want to know what film is he defending in terms of the plot holes Sort of talk because usually when people are talking about uh, hey plot holes don't really matter They're usually like Patrick Williams, for example He defends a quiet place and the last jedi So what film is this guy trying to defend or is he just trying to he might mention an example like uh Yeah, so far all we've got is maybe s. A. O. And that's about it I guess I guess you're right. I guess he just made this entire video to Complain about how s. A. O. Got a lot of Yeah, you know, he said like it's it's the job to make you feel it's like by that logic No film has ever failed Because there's someone out there who felt something Even if you feel boredom it succeeded because it made you feel And that's the key word emotion stories are emotional. By the way, by the way, I'm just gonna Uh pause it right here because from what I've seen Um There are no more talks about anime because if there are please please if there are please do call me because I'm about to prepare for my stream All right, you have a have a good time. Thank you anime expert for helping us through that Thanks for at least at least you do have one now just in case you encounter these Really interesting random encounter, but anyway beyond speed dial Anyway, talk to you guys later. See you man. Bye And says their objective is to get you to feel to translate empathy to foster investment in a situation that is not your own To bring you to plot holes getting away in that thing is it's not an either or Yeah, they they can exist together. Ideally they exist. They should That was a big part of a lot of people's arguments is the logic fights emotional investment Like to make things logical will screw up the emotional value and it's just like what will you from I don't know. That's not true. It's just not true And in logical in logical plots make make it make them less believable and therefore Harder to invest in It's very because i'm trying to get this across in my new Videos that come out, but it's like when a when a film is like here's this scenario There's this guy and he can do this and you're like, okay, okay And then and then temezo you go he can't do this by the way and you go Oh, I thought you said he thought you said he could you can't now. Oh, okay And then temezo later he can do this now and you're like, what's going on movie? What are you trying to I'm confused. I'm not following and that's what we usually mean by illogical is that it's inconsistent with itself It's telling you to care about these rules and you go. Oh, okay cool. And then it goes Oh, don't care about the rules anymore. And you're like, oh I was invested in the stakes, but now you've just told me that they don't mean anything. So, okay Um, but no space wizards. Nothing ever makes any sense. Therefore you should enjoy every film or something like that New places some of them upbeat and fantastical some of them frighteningly dark and no more anime Someone said made a good comment in the chat Oh, uh, Tobias Holm says you have to believe what happens. Otherwise, you'll not care Yeah, that's pretty no, that's fair. It's pretty straightforward This guy seems to have accepted that But he's said that plot holes don't really come into that When when when considering how much you believe it is about how the quality of the story or something Which is ironic because it's like which can be determined by plot holes Yeah, which is nonsense And if he is saying it's all subjective then some people do subject because they care about plot holes Yeah, so this they matter the internal logic of this person's argument is falling apart is kind of what we're getting there Seven rewrites Okay, we're not even halfway through guys situation that is not your own to bring you to new places Some of them are beaten I can believe harry potter because there there aren't It because I'm not aware of enough plot it maybe there are is a thing maybe there are Yes, I've always accepted that there are films. I'm really invested in then someone can be like, didn't you think about this? This this this this and I go oh No, I didn't and that affects how I feel And so then the plot holes matter Hmm sickle some of them frighteningly dark and sobering They're cathartic because they allow you to feel emotion in an environment that is safe Where fear of consequences can be abandoned for the sake of exploring concepts deeper and deeper and deeper Yeah, and you know exploring the these concepts gets difficult if the film like I have to use the last Jedi here it's like Failure being a good teacher is like oh you get to think about that for a second Then you consider what's happening to these characters in the film. You're like that's not really learning from failure Yeah, problems with problems with the plot and internal consistent stuff prevent you from getting invested like that Or can prevent you or can't prevent you. Sorry. Yeah Some people out there is don't care stories or stories that take place in like we're showing full mental alchemist here They have rules like the like alchemy in full mental alchemist has rules and they're constantly Talked about throughout the series. It allows us to get invested because we understand the stakes then Yes, absolutely Is like it adds it it can only help and it helps it helps it helps the more consistent the story is with itself The more invested that we can be Impact you'll have worlds with characters you can understand and empathize with not just for the sake of entertainment But also for the sake of making you think of giving you something to walk away with a new perspective on the world Or on yourself a new understanding that you could never have gained from a simple explanation Yeah, these are all things you can get from movies, but plot holes not mattering to them isn't really a thing He's he does that thing where he has these random clips that don't have anything to Just a lot of them have like what you could call watermarks as well like weird ones I'm not sure where he's getting these clips from but they're like I mean it takes work to fetch all of these clips and put them in and get them on the timeline and I mean like that's why I'm so glad I just Like playing emotional moments like some of the clips are relevant and some of them aren't yeah Yeah, the self reflection one was obviously a good choice. Yeah, some of them. Yeah, but Some like the Dunkirk the only way they can get you to that place is through execution of dramatic function through getting you invested of dramatic function Execution of dramatic function. What does what does that mean? I am going to guess that the execution of dramatic function is the film Do the film's ability to convey to the audience What um feeling or emotion Is in the director's head or is trying to be conveyed. How do you have drama without stakes? How do you have stakes without rules? And but by that I mean Someone you like is fighting someone you hate to the death. Why does that matter? Well because they can die How do you know they can die because they're human and humans are mortal These are rules that make the stakes. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, well, yeah, or there have to be facts that are stopped um You can't just come from nowhere Which is why plot logic is very important to a lot of people exactly Did and engaged that is the environment where a writer's ideas can ring true pierce the barrier of incomprehension and It's like it's like why do you think like people who are really into dnd and pathfinder and stuff? How those can be really tense because everyone knows the rules exactly like a couple of weeks ago my uh We're playing I played dnd and we're playing like the minds of fandalva And we uh, we fought a green dragon and almost all died because it's a very stupid decision And you can't you know, no one's going to tell me that wasn't a really tense situation because we were all heavily invested in it But it made sense You know, there were rules that were followed um You know without that it would just be a bit of fun I mean it was fun anyway, but it was more than that Yeah, I was kind of rambling. Sorry. No, it makes sense. Do you get what I mean? I was invested in your story because you established the rules It all made sense to me. There's no For example, if someone just said I imagine that we all get home safely And then the game ended it's like no Yeah, that's boring mistakes. Yeah, it's boring Reach the viewer. These are emotional experiences and it is that emotion that counts logic is the opposite of emotion No I hate to be pedantic but the opposite of logic is not logic, but They those things are not necessarily opposites at all No Not at all I don't I hate this stupid myth. No, it's a myth now because it's two people who are saying it Logic is the opposite of emotion. Therefore you could have one or the other. It's just like Yeah, just because Does not mean that they are opposites Hmm Yeah logical decisions Can often basically be the result of removing any sense of emotion or you can make You have two emotional decisions and you go with the logical one or logically You take an emotional decision. There's so many different contexts to use the weird logic It's um The example i've got in my video coming up is i'm assuming you guys have both seen predator The new one the old one the first one. Yeah the first one. Yeah, remember when um mac goes a bit nuts And he starts to go after the predator personally Uh on his own after the there's like a fight scene then he's just like i got you motherfucker I got you and he starts running after him. Um, oh, yeah I would call that an illogical decision because he's running off without his team There's a completely strong piece of logical writing. He wants revenge because he killed blaine Yeah, see what I mean. It's like you just I just used logic twice Um, they mean two different things and one of them is tied to emotion. The other one is tied to consistent writing it's it's I hate getting bottled down to you're either emotional or your logical end of story. It's like Okay Yeah, you mean like I like you can really hate sarin Right because he's sorry and it's logical Just come sar- do you mean sarin? Saurin, yeah Man that american accent ruins that name doesn't Sauron's ross Saurin Hey, man, you you guys gonna take out that saurin guy Saurin But yes, no continue. Sorry. I didn't mean to uh Hey there I have sarin I sarin Saurin He's so sarin I've totally gone off topic thanks to that That was way too sexual mohler Um, all not sexual enough. It's really it's really down to interpretation. It's subjective. I would say It's too late for this shit, man. Fairly. I just said it wrong. Whatever. He's bad. He died soros George saron whichever one's more evil. I don't know So you're on Okay, let's keep going And it is that emotion that counts logic is the I'll be the I'll be the judge of what counts Opposite of emotion and though basic logic is obviously critical to living our everyday life It's usually kind of unexciting and cold It doesn't matter it doesn't matter critical to everyday life, but it's boring It's like what even point are you making there? It's like i'm sorry your life is boring, but That it's that's that doesn't matter if it's boring or not if you think that logic is boring that does not matter When it comes to emotion Are you saying emotional movies can't you say there are no emotional movies that can't be logically consistent and boring is ex machina Not emotional because it doesn't have to be cold. No, yeah Logic is associated with it though. It's outside of that Like for example, you know spider-man goes to rescue mary jane because he loves it and it's a logical decision I mean logic. It's logical that he would make that decision considering his emotional investment Yes, it's it's more accurate to say it logic doesn't care. It's neither hot nor cold. It's apathetic in anything It just yeah, uh in the dark night where it's like do we kill 100 civilians or 100 criminals you go logically the criminals have done more bad to society than the And that's that's almost philosophical. But the You get what the point is again, I just it's just an echo of the fact that logic is being demonized when it comes in so many forms Same for emotion. It's it's very complicated. People say you're acting illogically. That's not praise They're not saying keep it up champ I just I can't believe he said like oh we use logic. Yeah, it's critical to our lives But I mean it's still boring. It's like you know how we like we set up houses so that we have them contained and uh It doesn't just flow through it from the outside. So they stay warm We do that with like particular materials in particular ways. I could just picture him being like yeah, but it's boring though Well, I would I I'm hoping he elaborates Um on what he means by everyday logic versus the logic that ruins films. Yeah, because that's another hope He's gonna do that. And though basic logic is obviously critical to living our everyday life It's usually kind of unexciting and cold if you've ever had to try to comfort a crying friend or family member Or you're a cryer yourself. You probably know that sometimes logic just isn't what's in thank you Sometimes logic doesn't work. Sometimes it does Yes, but even then it depends on what you're attempting to do If you're a goal here's the thing here's the thing if your goal is to console your friend It can be logical to not use Some other kind of logic. Yeah, it can be logical to You know what i'm saying. Yeah, like if making the situation Worse is theological thing to do Yes, if your goal is that's why this is so interesting You got a friend's parents died you go up to them and you think to yourself Okay, I could say, um, I'm here for you. I could say hey, my dad died. So I know how it feels You could say get over it. You could say you have all these options You're like, which one does the best so logically speaking. I want to choose the one that has the best outcome And then you go you say, um, I'm here for you anything you need You know just talk to me and then someone goes see that's not a logical thing to say It's like that's absolutely a logical thing to say. Yes, because the logical thing to let me just let me just double check Logic definition because you don't tie definition. There's some rapper guy that pops up Um reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. So logic's a line of reasoning Yeah, and so the reasoning is I want to make this person feel better Well, it reasoning would be Why you why uh, but if if you if that it's oh, yeah, that's the goal with the goal. Yeah Yeah, so the goal is to make somebody change emotionally Then you wouldn't use quote unquote cold logic But the fact that he just bought this in logically what would cheer this person up He was like it's a very simplified view of logic and emotion He was like logic is cold. You know when you come to a friend Sometimes using logic doesn't work and it's like well. Yeah, but you've just you brought this in as a counter But you've just admitted that it does sometimes work. So it's not a counter at all. It's actually a A valid choice like it is I don't really get this argument. Anyway. He's just like Here take this scenario in which logic is sometimes valid. It's like oh Well, thanks for proving family member or your a crier yourself You probably know that sometimes logic just isn't what's important It counts more than certain people realize but considering that these stories are not actually real they're But I can believe it. Yeah, because we know because we have established that he can crawl on walls Yeah, he's got the spider sticky fingerness. Yes, we know it isn't real, but that's okay Yeah, because that's not illogical what he's doing there. If a random person just jumped onto the ceiling Stuck to his hands that would be a problem But we know that that spider-man and that's what he can do for reasons that have been established and exactly Like let me just ask you this chat. Is it logical that spider-man can climb walls? Yes What it is No Internal logic is just as unimportant in the face of intense emotion as it would be to a loved one Who's bawling their eyes out for a reason that maybe doesn't make much sense as for that whole thing about logic being Unexciting there are places such as with mysteries where the logic of something is important to the experience So it does matter then. Yeah, it does matter. Yes, if you prove it matters in one instance Then it matters What he should really be saying is why I don't care about some plot holes That's not an icing video is it? Yeah, there's no clickbait though. Oh, I don't know. It was that not detected I was kidding about spider-man climate. Of course that makes sense. Oh, yeah Yeah, because logic is reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity We have established that it is valid for him to do that. I was I was role playing as a man wearing A hoodie with a scarf. I think So also this is on this part I'm sorry. I'm a stickler for this because I use the same thing for my videos But on on the the crook of his arm there on on the right hand side whenever he makes this face He he needs to delete that and make that transparent because it covers up the background Oh, I think I know what you mean. Yeah Yeah, the white spot there when he changes the next picture that will be gone and you could see the forest behind Through his arm and his side. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah in those cases you aren't enjoying the logic You're enjoying the feeling of intelligence intrigue and cerebral engagement that the story provides by going over plot logic Not to mention because certain stories are more thinky than others maintaining the sense that everything's so sometimes it does matter What is the point of this video? Yes, that's the thing you have you have admitted that sometimes they matter It's context, which is what he's been saying from the beginning. White bottles don't matter. You have fucked up Very badly Makes sense can be important to creating a consistent time. Oh, and that's what patrick did too Yeah, he said that it matters when he says it matters. Yeah, so he did the same mistake When did he say it mattered though? He said it mattered when uh, he said that there's a major plot contrivance He's talking about martha, you know being the mum of both of them the same name Oh, yeah He said there's a major plot contrivance to push character growth His argument is that they only matter in relation to character But he originally says in the video that they don't matter whatsoever. Yeah, because it's basically impossible to say and get away with As far as I know that they do not matter and I have to say I'm not saying patrick copied this video But they do line up in a lot of ways. It might just be that this is how people typically argue against plot holes I guess Yeah, it's like whenever because they both try to make the same point and they both fuck up in the same way But my second is the same point But my take from his video is that he was like when he was saying that those things mattered It's because they were contrivances rather than plot holes He was saying that plot holes don't matter because it's what the it's the contrivances that make it bad Oh on the patrick one And he did he did mention at a time that there was a difference between the two but he did also Mention that there are plot holes and we recognize a contrivance Sometimes they do matter A contrivance is less egregious than a plot hole by definition So patrick's saying that a contrivance can work but a plot hole Uh cannot is confusing because you should be more forgiving of a plot contrivance than a plot hole A plot hole is it would be like me saying like you can't slap me in the face But you can punch me you'd be like, oh no, it's it's a bad argument. Yeah, but that is what he was saying But it doesn't make sense She's wrong This is what I feel digi's real problem with the completely and blatantly nonsensical plot line of psychopath season two is in the first season Psychopaths established its world and tone as serious ones deep diving into complex psychology and philosophy And keeping the surface level easy to notice logic mostly intact Then in season two they completely toss logic to the wind for the sake of doing whatever fun action set piece Or totally horrifying moment They feel you don't need to do that for any set pieces You can always maintain logic if you just write hard enough Even if you want set pieces can have more drama and tension because we have established stakes and we know rules If you want Sharknado's you don't you can have a fictional world and you can say Uh, there's such an extreme tornado That it's pulling sharks out of the water and it's flinging them at the And as the audience we have to go. All right. This is a world where there's that extreme of a tornado Yeah, absolutely as long as you stay consistent that you go There's an equally powerful tornado that's not pulling any sharks up because we need it to not do it for this scene It would be like, oh, well, that's inconsistent. Yeah Very it's internally internal consistency. That's the soul comes down It doesn't it doesn't matter that there's a guy who can telekinetically move things and has a laser sword That's fine as long as it's established. That's a thing You're like even if the Talk about that for a moment while I pee Okay Uh, this yeah, I do think it's a bit pointless to criticize sharknado for plot holes because I mean that film's gonna have a shit ton of problems But all I'm saying is I took the most ridiculous thing Because his argument is like they want to do ridiculous stuff in psychopath season two It's like that didn't mean they have to have inconsistent right and they could still do it I mean, I haven't seen it so you could say like, how could you know? I'm like, I'm pretty sure you can contextualize any choice you wanted to make Except ones that counter things you came before Yeah Which I mean at that point you may as well just write a different story if you want to tell that story That's that's a big problem with a lot of uh continued franchises Is they're like I want to tell my story in this universe. Oh it counters it. I don't care. Whatever Hmm Are you thinking of one particular series? Oh, you know star trek um space wars They're they're two big ones that they did it to what was it? Uh, what was it called? space soldiers Oh, yeah, star ship. What's that? No, what was that book called? No, what was that book called joe's vines? To And then interstellar soldiers as well Oh brilliant. Yeah. Sharknado is a big joke I was just saying that as an example of you can even you could have written sharknado well if you really wanted to It's just gonna take effort It has to be this time of year only these kinds of sharks are affected The wind has to be at this speed and it has to cross the water as well The sharks migrate at a certain time and you can argue um something to do with like, you know The the the continental shelf has shifted or some some big thing has happened that we haven't seen And the earth has driven the sharks closer to the surface in error before Yeah, that kind of she happens in movies all the time they have to mumbo jumbo that they hope you don't think about Sometimes it's better than others The writing and direction of psychopaths too have been great but kept all the same logic problems It still wouldn't be very good because the obvious unintended dumbness would disconnect the viewer from a World that once felt grounded and realistic you'll notice that now we're moving away from the plot whole discussion And into one about the consistency of tone and the true breaker of suspension of disbelief Vera similitude Vera similitude is basically the idea that a story does not need to adhere to our sense of reality because when we experience a story We immerse ourselves in it become invested and suspend our disbelief So when we enter a story's world, it's more important for that world to adhere to its own internal sense of reality That's what we've been arguing the whole time. Yeah Yeah, I don't think does he know that So when he when he brought the eagles, did he think people were saying there's no eagles in real life that are that big? Or was he saying the eagles should have rescued them before if they were going to rescue them now or delivered them before he's already He's already tackled a plot hole that is about internal consistency. So he should know that that's what people are talking about already I kind of want to see where he's going with this. Yeah, sure Rather than actual reality even if there's something occurring in a story that would be highly implausible in real life It doesn't matter because we're not in real life. We're in the story's reality when that story's reality breaks However, such as with the blatant stupidity of psychopath season two clashing with a serious tone of the first season our suspension of disbelief goes out The wind it's not just about clashing tone. That's about plot holes too. It's about everything Why is he moved from? I don't know that tone and Told us another one of the many things he mentioned that are important. My brain is dying guys. I don't blame you I'm using how the fantasy essentially Where do you think the music comes from? How does everybody know how to dance? It's a fantasy in this in essence It's just in this world. Everybody does that. No, I don't think you but when when people criticize plot holes They're not necessarily doing it because they break the rules of our world. It's their rules. It's the world's rules Someone just said seven rewrites He's acting stupid irrational plot logic that ruined psychopaths works perfectly in spielberg's ready player one that movie is No, that is dumb as I am No, ready player was really bad Yeah, but he said it was bad Well, he said it works because That it's like displayed as bad like this that it's owning it intonally Right, which is no just no game world that you go into. Yeah, and tonally it's like adventure Happy bit of a mystery and then a bit of a romance. There's there's a lot of It's your standard spielberg film in terms of it does everything Uh that you want to see Outside of like horror. No, it actually does it does how this is what I mean Yeah, it has literally like every genre in it and the tone is just to experience it as one big adventure sort of thing um, but loads of it makes no fucking sense at all and I guess he's saying that that doesn't matter in films that are toned like ready player one Yeah, can we just rewatch that clip because he is he is saying it's stupid But I want to see how he's defending it the stupidity of psychopath season two clashing with the serious tone of the first season Our suspension of disbelief goes out the window notice how the exact same stupid irrational plot logic that ruins psychopaths works Perfectly in spielberg's ready player one that movie is about as dumb as I am and is absolutely Dripping with plot holes and things that don't make sense things that you notice as you're watching But it actually works to its advantage because that's the reality that ready player one constructs Oh, I guess I guess I made his point before he said it But he did say that this world. Yeah, I can believe that makes sense because it's an established video game world Yeah, well, no, they break their own rules and they have like for instance rags. Um They've been looking for years for the secret to winning a race. There's just this race that's around every time This is this is like where my head started to fall out of the film So it's your standard thing everyone turns up and they go three two one go and you race and the big problem Is no one's getting past king kong. He's like at the end and he just beats the shit out of anybody who comes to him So the puzzle is like how do you get past king kong and our character? After getting in on searching for the the clue to all of this He looks like a past flashback video thing and like the maker is talking about some random stuff And then the maker just goes sometimes to go forward you have to go backwards And then he goes, huh? And so so so let me guess He reverses He reverses and it gets him past king kong and he gets the first secret that people have been looking for for years Can you tell me How it is that no one tried reversing that car Maybe three seconds before somebody exactly it's going to be the first fucking race sub troll just go Yeah, but I guess well, okay, I haven't seen the movie So this is or they would just turn around they like as like you're getting into your car and stuff You're looking all around you So you just be like, oh back there and obviously you could be like that's one thing. I'd be like, yeah, there's a lot of things That's just the first one. I remember it's very early in the movie Um, but yes, this is a video game world So there's going to be stuff that can be done that I'll accept like people blow up into coins I don't know if that's a plot hole though. No, it's uh, that would be a contrivance It's the idea that it's contrived that nobody would ever have tried that Yeah, it's so only a plot hole if it breaks its own logic Yeah, and like I said, that's just one of many things that you just make you go Come on. Is he saying that Um ready play one does break his own logic though. Was he not saying that? I think yeah, I think he is saying that but it works in ready player one because of it's uh, Delivery, I guess I'm not 100% sure As you're watching but it actually works to its advantage because that's the reality that ready player one constructs It's supposed to be a fun fast-paced quirky adventure story in a world where anything is possible So the obvious dumbness not anything is possible Now it still needs to obey its own rules, you know, as ridiculous as they are This actually becomes a part of the amusing mood me laughing at dumb stuff Like the main villain having multiple personalities because of what is essentially a series of organ transplants is a problem Because it breaks my immersion into what was once a semi realistic world But when I laugh at the fact that the vast player base Fun fact You're making a video You are talking The background music does not need to have lyrics Does it It has vocals certainly. I think you're they're enunciating something are you saying you should have chosen a song That was just instrumental. Well, he ideally he should have none, but If you're gonna choose music in the background don't have other voices in the back trying to sing about something Yeah, it's distracting. Yeah, I agree. It's just distracting My immersion into what was once a semi realistic world But when I laugh at the fact that the vast player base of the oasis is playing with vr headsets outside on the sidewalk Which is so retarded I don't understand. I don't understand how that works whatsoever I guess this is my spot fighting the air and somehow not hitting each other It actually draws me into the movie's world even more strengthening the sense of reality that the film constructs But yes, he has showed them walking and it's like what if they walked into a wall Yeah, what if they walked into traffic and so apparently this makes it work better for him. I don't Surely you just have a controller in your hand I'm just doing that way like it's vr I need to watch this film. Look, I got a lot of guns I can aim way better with a mouse on a video game Then I can with the real gun because shooting real guns is Yeah, like he's really harder than video games Like even though there's no recoil with a mouse Unless you you haven't got a modified mouse that gives you recoil It's just what casual game real parts. Yeah. Yeah It's it's hard guns are hard. Okay. It's what I'm trying to say Obvious surface level plot holes that you can notice while you're watching can be a small part of the verisimilitude Plot holes still aren't important. Do you feel gray about saying verisimilitude like uh If you if you said that what it means is tonal consistency Feels unnecessary, but okay fine. I'll let you go. I'll let you go Because the vast majority of them are either not noticeable while you're watching or are such a complicated That's actually a definition of verisimilitude What is the definition the appearance of being true or real? Oh, well, I guess he's using it in a specific. He's he's contextualizing it as How come that's not applicable to plot holes exactly? Yeah. Yeah Fuck that Y'all use your big-ass word your verisimilitude. It seems that what he's saying is that it's verisimilitude that makes That matters or doesn't matter and plot holes don't affect verisimilitude So they don't matter Or like the ones that don't affect some verisimilitude don't matter and the response is that's like your opinion, bro More more anodyne language The problem is he just said I like it people the people just he just said people don't notice them Which is very subjective. Yeah, he's not really got a lot of Definitiveness he's just bringing in like people they're in this and people don't care typically They're in this like so people do care select sometimes Yeah, that's like logic doesn't matter because you don't use it to comfort a friend every time. It's like so you you do do it sometimes You know, I mean The majority of them are either not noticeable while you're watching or are such a complicated twisting of the story's logic A suspension of disbelief should allow you to just shrug it off. People always like to That's not how it works. Suspension of disbelief is so subjective I mean the I mean Tommy Wiseau thought that the room should be a masterpiece Do you know what else can pull you out is watching a film with an actor who's committed something horrible That could ruin your suspension of disbelief because you're just like I can't see anyone But the guy who did the thing Kevin Spacey Kevin Spacey. Yeah, Kevin Spacey film the same way now I can't watch American beauty again It would be like me being like Fucking verisimilitude doesn't matter or whatever point he's making doesn't matter What matters in actuality is what the actors have done and then I just say, you know how this movie is a thing I can't watch now because Kevin Spacey you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's what I said is true But it's not the only example and that's what I could say for this video What you're saying is kind of true, but it's not well apart from the fact that you said plot holes don't affect it It's all so subjective To complain after they've walked out of the movie theater how the big bad's grand master scheme didn't actually make any sense But the thing is if you didn't realize it while you were watching it probably doesn't matter. That's terrible logic It's also terrible logic. It doesn't matter. Unless you notice it. What that's dependent on whoever noticed it. Yeah Yeah Because Because that viewing experience without realizing it still exists And the fact that the logic doesn't make sense shouldn't be able to erase or change that experience The joker shouldn't be able to shouldn't that's an interesting choice of way Yeah It almost like he accepts that it can but he's saying it shouldn't and it's like so you So they do so they do Yeah, if it did it a hundred percent of the time then there would be no failure. So should this be called white plot holes shouldn't matter. Imo Yeah, or white plot holes don't bother me or shouldn't bother anyone Yeah, or that would still make it for an awful video And he's also I think he's also partly wrong about that Because oh elvick. I I have pointed that out about the guy's avatar with a transparency. Yeah, I have I have pointed that out actually I thought it was originally on one image, but like half of them have them and half of them don't So yeah, I had that problem myself. Um With some of my past avatars. Yeah, but you're awful. This guy is a girl scholar. That's true I am awful. He's been 11 months worth his content. Yeah that months on this video I'm starting to not believe that even that's longer than I've actually been making videos And you've made like so many great breakdowns of is like, yeah I was just thinking all that plan in the dark night doesn't make a lick of sense But people still love it because it made for a more fun movie in the lack of you say it like Why doesn't it make sense? And and what what is god damn? That's just too much Anti-logic for my brain. It's like and also he's a complete psychopath It's gonna make sense for him and his his logic. Yeah, if the argument is I'm running out of steam Feel like we have to keep explaining how logic works like why it affects people's Yeah, we could we could steamroll ahead and try to be Less loquacious Sense isn't so noticeable as to break the movie's extremely realistic time. That's the thing So his point is it doesn't matter if it's logical as long as it maintains the tone Or it doesn't matter if people don't notice it Yes, it doesn't matter to that person It doesn't matter to that person if they don't notice it and to be tone tone is like it's a separate Vehicle entirely like when you're judging whether or not the plot works. You don't also consider How do they portray this plot in the tone? It's like no, we're just talking about consistency here And an a to b to c to d we'll talk about tone another time as a separate conversation He's like no tone is the one that matters If you have to actively disengage yourself from the story and think about its logic to find or be bothered by a plot hole Yeah, what about people who do automatically if you never had a problem with the movie and then figured out what it was Yeah, you know that you remember things, right? And then not every experience the most of the experience you have with a movie might not be the first viewing If you don't catch it, what if you hear somebody else talking about it? What if you are sitting there at night and you think about that movie you watched and you know, uh-oh Whoa, that's actually a problem. I'm not a fan of this whole like you're looking for these things Let's be honest. You look if it's like no, they bother me Yeah, like we're I'm sorry. We're not just we can't just swatch our brains off. I say swatch I I was so here's the story. Thank you already have So no, so I was my brain, right was like say switched off No, say swapped off and so I said swatched So I could have internal consistency Yeah, you're a logical rags. You've proven this point time Look, if I said it and you understood me, it's a word. So fuck you But yeah, and it I just just a quick example of the whole I don't look for them My brain just picks them up is when Finn is like it's impossible for them to use hyperdrive And then ten minutes later, he's like, I know where the hyperdrive system is I can take it down with you It's like But I thought you said you Ha Your brain is betraying you by keeping memory of what the film has already told you about Now he was a swatch saran's brain off It doesn't matter because at that point you have actively disengaged yourself from the story Like someone sitting down for a movie and you keep he's saying it like one comes from the other every every time Like like you disconnect yourself and then you look for plot holes as opposed to Plot holes present themselves and disconnect you from the story Yeah Disconnects us There's nothing wrong with looking for them and I don't I I shouldn't Have to turn off my brain to enjoy a film because I use my brain to enjoy the film And genuinely I agree. I don't look for plot holes on my first viewing of any movie. I just I just take it in I'm just like go movie Well, sometimes I don't I don't care. I just watch the film I don't notice anything But what if what about people who do watch these films and they do just genuinely want to Poke fun at things and find things. Yeah, that's a necessary role with that Yeah, that's the the patrick williams thing and say that's there's what you're watching movies rolling If you don't if you don't notice them, that's okay if you like to notice him They'll notice them. That's okay too okay Oh wait is um Oh, wow. Uh, so the tweet you put out, uh, chris Somebody added, uh, cosmonaut in it. Yeah, I was gonna mention that at the end Yeah, and he's just uh, thank you, but I'd really rather not It's like what you don't want to listen to five hours at nitpicks. Yeah, probably the spark Cool. I thought we were very fair with his video. I think we were very fair too He's welcome on any time. I just his video wasn't good his video. Yeah, he doesn't have to watch our response He's always welcome to respond to it if he does and to come on here. No hard feelings. Mr. Cosmonaut I get the feeling that he's just completely moved on and disengaged from it and wants to do other things. I guess Yeah, no hard feelings. Well, yeah, maybe there are That's fine. Yeah, that's fine In trying not to enjoy it out of spite or whatever But hang on just a second. Keep in mind that I am saying all of this from an analytical critical person What that he's being serious I'm just gonna I'm gonna let's know I'm gonna go back to that still and see Okay, here we go analysis and criticism He says outside perspective Presumes not knowing exactly how something was written Not writing advice geared towards understanding stories Not making them And then we have the written in development side Which says inside perspective Discusses how something was or would be written Writing advice geared toward the process of constructing something from the ground up What can someone translate this Chris do it Okay, so the analysis. Okay, so I guess what he's so these are the two sides of a story There's the person who is Analyzing analyzing is the word that I'm looking for Caught myself there on that one. All right It's what you watch the live streams for folks So the people who analyze and criticize Are on one side and the little tick marks down there Are like how they look at it and then there's the writers and developers of the media And they have inside perspective because they're the ones who are the ones making it That's what he's going. Well, that's not that's not to say there's there can't be any crossover or there isn't any crossover That correct like a good analyst tries to understand what the writers and developers were trying to do So those this seems like a very strange line to draw. I'm not actually sure of what he's trying to achieve with this When I write thing Why would you go through the trouble of writing all that out talk over it and not give us enough time to read it Or not even talk about it really Yeah, he just points to it. I'm coming at it from the analysis and criticizing side and I'm like If you you wrote all this stuff down What is it like don't just skip over it. Don't make me pause and stop and go back Anyway, let's see where he's going with this all of this from an analytical critical perspective None of this is to say that if you're a writer you shouldn't even try to adhere to basic logic because if you don't you're Probably going to end up with a lot of blatant plot holes that punch holes in your verisimilitude Oh video's done video's over video's over. That's it. Come on, man. You just shot your video this What you just why would you say that? In this video Why would you do that the video's done? It's over. He's made the point. Can you just play that again? I've got to see that again On just a second keep in mind that I am saying all of this from an analytical critical perspective None of this is to say that if you're a writer you shouldn't even try to adhere to basic logic Because if you don't you're probably going to end up with a lot of blatant plot holes that punch holes in your verisimilitude besides So, um, I'm not sure how to respond to that in any way other than what was the point of this video He's so he's admitting that writers can write plot holes At point commersion and he's actually suggesting. Hey, you may as well write logically though Rag said this before I can't remember what the context was but rags was just like hey, why not be consistent Yeah, it's like, you know, just be consistent may as well Oh man, how do you recover from that? If you're utilizing elements from reality such as with historical fiction or just trying to represent real world things in your fiction Like police forces for example, it is your duty to do your research and represent whatever that's when you're supposed to do it Oh, you have a duty Duty Is you're representing as accurately as possible so as to avoid spreading misinformation in that I don't disagree with him on that however, um That's not the only instance in which that's important I guess you're saying that's a real world result, but that's so weird to say right after just saying that it's Important to just do it anyway to avoid blatant plot holes So Here's the thing. This is interesting. So apocalypto. I really liked I really liked, um apocalypto I don't know anything about south american culture because fuck it. I don't care so If they have inaccuracies about ancient meso american incan aztec culture, whatever it was I'm not gonna know so it might be a plot hole Wait Or in consistency with real life would be more accurate Do you believe the film though? Do you think that what they portray in the film is what happened back then? No Well, that's he's saying it's a problem if you said yes But this is actually interesting because me me and chris actually had a yeah, we were talking about brave heart We had a long subject a con the conversation on this and I guess what I said was that um If it's clear well typically I don't think there is a film that's 100 accurate because by logic of it being a movie movies tend to Absolutely break reality because they have to to make a movie but a documentary they have the responsibility because as far as you're aware They are 100 accurate Because it's the whole point of making a documentary while with with a movie you're telling a story So I've never taken brave heart patriot or apocalypto. I like all three of those films. I've never thought of them as accurate I've always been like yeah, these are just sort of taking stuff and then playing with it But there are people who do they're not yeah, there are people that do and the problem is that they're not just inaccurate They're deliberately misleading And they make moral points about real life people and real life countries that people will then Some people will then take an apply to the present which you know, it's something that I do think filmmakers need to bear in mind It's important. It's a complicated subject. It is important. It's complicated. Yeah in relation to this video He's saying this is a time where it matters and it has real world Consequences and I'm not even disagreeing. I just don't see yeah, but that's nothing to do with plot holes And it's not it's not a relevance now because he's just said that they do matter sometimes. So I'm just like what Let me listen to that again Let's dude besides if you're utilizing elements from realities such as with historical fiction or just trying to represent real world Did you say historical fiction? I think he means like a piece of fiction that's based off of it. Yeah, but by definition historical fiction wouldn't have to adhere to fact Well, they're a limits It doesn't it's more like often the authentic nature of it like if that's the genre like absurdist or old history They don't actually have to do it. They haven't got a responsibility to do anything if they're They don't have a responsibility or like a duty Um, but a lot of the times it can make the quality better in a lot of people's eyes Yeah We bring in in glorious bastards is obviously a good example of like Say they want to have the scene where they blow hitler away with machine guns You can't do that and remain consistent with what happened in history. You know what I mean? So they're deliberately breaking from history for that Yeah, but I think basically everyone knows what really happened to hitler and Stuff though, whereas not that many people actually know about The aztecs and the maya. I'm just talking about the concept from the from the base the the idea you don't like If you do in old history or historical inaccuracy, you're welcome to go crazy if you want to do it for the movie But uh, we did bring this up in our conversation as well. What if someone out there watches in glorious bastards and said I can't believe that's how hitler died. That's crazy Have they have they now dealt the same damage as somebody who said the scottish never raped and pillaged anybody in the wars against the english Yeah, it's contextual Yeah, it's case-by-case so don't don't look to You know hollywood for your um, I mean, yeah, I would never recommend learning history for movies They're a good jumping off point. You can be like I'm gonna go search for what really happened now But uh to get you interested maybe but I wouldn't go for But basically none of this has anything to do with plot holes I don't understand what he's doing. I don't understand what he's trying to argue with I don't either things in your fiction like police forces for example It is your duty to do your research and represent whatever it is You're representing as you could have a consistent plot and bad research. So yeah, what does this have to do with? Yeah, yeah, now. He's just talking about inaccuracy, which is a very different subject Yeah, yeah, certainly as possible so as to avoid spreading misinformation in that regard real life accuracy and plot holes can be important And in a perfect world you'd be how please How Like I want to that's the thing I would want to know how well What does he mean by real life plot hole? I'm confused How can yeah, like how can the real life inaccuracies be a problem like especially for apocalypto? He brings it up, but I don't want to watch a whole another video to learn about a little segment of his What I guess his point is that it contradicts the reality of the situation so much that it can force people out of the experience Like is he saying that's a plot hole when the fiction is inconsistent with the reality or that the fiction is inconsistent with itself and it's also Misrepresenting reality Yeah, I don't I don't think it's a plot hole because it's internally consistent That's yeah, it's a different issue I love how his little casual comments have just thrown us for a complete loop. We're just like we gotta break this all down Why say that? Super compelling plot with characters that feel like real people in deep thematic exploration with no plot holes or real life inaccuracies at all but uh Here's the thing writing is hard No, shit. No shit. Okay, so Writing is hard in the sense that Well, hey, he's gonna make a point, right? I would say this writing is as complicated as you want to make it Like really really hard so hard in fact that in all my years of trying I still haven't quite figured out how to do it Yeah, I know because after seven rewrites this video is a joke Oh We know that you know that writing is hard We get it and neither have a lot of people you think they have in order for a story to feel coherent You have to get a lot of seemingly disparate elements to all come together and line up perfectly like trying to get it Not not perfectly High he's he's skimming over such perfectly. Yeah, he's skimming over such broad topics Like now he's just said like there are so many things that are in writing that can conflict with each other and it's like So let's talk about no we're not talking about that. Okay If the elements of the story are so disparate that it's difficult to pull them together That's a problem with the story Maybe you should get good Like I mean seriously because what this is is you're saying writing is hard. Let's lower our standards It does sound like that's where he's going. We'll see. Yeah, let's hear what he has to say Get a choir to harmonize except the choir is made up of demons running around constantly shape-shifting And some of which you need to kill if you want to get a good sound when you write There's going to be a lot of times when sacrifices must be made to preserve the narrative and when it comes down to I hate that logic. That's called bad writing Hey, people are just like you just have to give up you got nothing. It's like, what do you mean? That's yeah, I said it right after I said it lower your standards Just accept the fact that there's going to be a broken element of your story Instead of not having it be there instead of fixing it instead of working around of it Just to give you an example If they go episode nine, we're bringing vader back and then someone goes you can't do that He's dead. It's like we're not going to let some annoying inconsistency get in the way of us trying to actually like create art here they'd be like, um Maybe you should be good then And they go suggest a way to get vader back without getting in the way of that I'd be like, why are we getting vader back? Stop just stop Two people back to back in the chat were like doom is too good for this vid and what was doom doing there? I don't know the children's choir were made up of demons looking shapeshift It makes sense youth. It's not first off. They didn't choose to be there. Their parents told them to be there Okay That's your opinion Yes, it is Do a choice between erasing a plot hole or creating a tighter more compelling story the correct choice should be obvious You can make fun of reki kawahara all day for not an either or It's not an either or Surge, but i'm sure none of you would care if sao was actually a masterpiece just to say what? None of you would care if it was a masterpiece Does the whole maybe I would maybe the chat can confirm that guys. Would you care if sao was extremely well written? Would you care? I don't even I don't care About sword art online, but I would care in the sense that I want it to be good because then other people would enjoy We established like you're gonna play spider-man. It's like, yeah, it's not like it's great So that it's not like we want stuff to be bad Just the idea there's like he's just established that the flaws in writing will pull people out and then he says But no one would care if it was flawless. It's like, yeah, they would Like I think we'd all love for the last gen I to be good I would love for the last gen I to be good, but we live in the timeline where it's garbage So I'm just gonna And this is this isn't necessarily This isn't a necessarily definitive question, but the recurse said how can something be coherent without logic and that is How do you answer that question? Is it possible for something to be coherent without logic? No Let me check. What does coherent actually mean? What means it um It's consistent with itself. It's logical and consistent. That's apparently what it means Logic and it's definition No, I don't I mean if you don't have any forming a unified whole is another definition I think um Without some kind of logical rules binding stuff together. It's just things happening But are similar to each other but coincidental You know, there's no consistency or um, why does he carry his swords on his back? He can't pull those out Geralt can do it. That's your opinion That's all I got right. I'm sorry the games the games established it. Yeah, they just phase through. That's how he opens It's a video game right doesn't even make sense Okay Same way as all of us are perfectly capable of enjoying SAO a bridge despite its plot holes Because at the end of the day that kind of stuff has nothing to do with how a story functions The bare bones amount of logic you need to telecom use that functions word again I don't think he knows what it means like yeah, not so bare bones logic I don't This guy takes the fun out of function Hey, that's kind of stuff has nothing to do with how a story functions The bare bones amount of logic you need to tell a compelling story is simply enough so that the audience can follow the story How much is how much is enough dude? How long how long is a piece of string? Yes, I mean tell me. What is the bare bones amount of logic? That gravity exists or that like the laws of nature And that's when you when you get to the point where it's like this video is just him being like it only matters as much as it matters to me, okay It's got nothing to do with principles of logic or anything Shut up. I was hoping he'd elaborate on it. But so far he's said absolutely nothing short afro man Someone made a sheath for that Shatter versity. Yeah, he did we've spoken. He's a good guy. I watch his video Make connections and be engaged everything else is extra. So why is everyone so obsessed with this doesn't make any sense Oh, god, is he gonna is he gonna do the Patrick Williamson and come up with a conspiracy that what website started the obsession with this Do you remember that? Yeah, I hate I hate the obsession people are obsessed Yeah, we notice it it doesn't keep us awake at night. We're like, yeah, this is a thing. This is an element of the film I could I could turn it around and say, oh, yeah, well the things that you care about how come you're obsessed with those Yeah, why are you obsessed with defending sort of online? That's that's thing obsessed is a loaded word Yeah, it's got baggage to it and it's not necessary for this usage and it's not you shouldn't use it So the characters could have just done that whenever people present these obvious logical solutions I always have to ask would you have enjoyed the story better that way? It's not about whether or not we enjoy it more sometimes. Yeah That's yeah, that's the thing sometimes you will enjoy it. This is what I mean by it's not it's not based on that It's just It's as valid as it is on its own. It's about being it's Okay, so I go this is a logical inconsistency. This is how what happened. We're just right I say this is a logical inconsistency and he goes it doesn't bother me and I go That's fine, but it is a logical inconsistency and he goes. Yeah, but it doesn't bother me and I'm like That's fine. I'm You agree that it's a logical inconsistency and it's like, yeah, but it doesn't matter. It's like, oh my god I didn't ask you how much it matters to you. That's not what I'm asking you Where are the other drugs going? Erase some of these plot holes in the entire story Oh, yeah, just to clarify the the reason I don't ask how much it matters because it literally changes from every single person on this Fucking planet. That's that's why what we mean by subjective You we have no way to just say this matters to the people this much Other than that fucking averages, which is useless. Everyone's like lord of the rings sponge bob crossover By the way, I think it is a good idea that you're pausing it every few seconds because otherwise All the claims all the claims because of the lord of the rings music. Yeah, good lord rings music Yeah ends right at the beginning Why didn't they just use the eagles? Well, because then lord of the rings would just stop trying to defend it We did a better job than you already We've sought this one out. You don't need to do it the 11 hours of Frodo complaining about a ring While him and the fellowship ride some giant eagles We don't experience stories because we want to see people do the most logical thing and make them Oh patrick williams. I can hear your voice through this poor boy People aren't logical when people are logical. They're not human It has to be believable We have to be able to get invested in it. I mean, I know that is also a bit subjective. Yes, but people aren't logical, dude Well, that's Partly true and partly not no, it's definitive. You've never made a logical decision in your life. Never No, not all never You know me pressing this play button to make the video play. That's just a lucky coincidence I don't actually have any logical decision making there As I said before when people say you're acting illogically they notice it and it's bad. It stands out By choice every time we experience them because we want to see characters mess up and make mistakes Account for those mistakes as if that's not a logical thing that can happen Yeah, you can make mistakes and still be logical and consistent and believable Yeah, logical doesn't mean perfect. I said man. It's using the same word two different ways This is the same point that patrick might yeah Other circumstances their own flaws or both and witnesses satisfying conclusion to this battle In other words, we experience stories for the conflict if everyone is always making the correct decision and everything works out perfectly It's the exact same point patrick big you can't have conflict if everyone's logical. It's eerily similar, isn't it? It is eerily similar Jesus wow What a shitty fucking point. I could see patrick watching this and being like i'll add a few points into my video. I could see This is video night before Apparently, let me check. This is august 17 and patricks patrick plot holes Imagine being stupid enough to be convinced by this Because I think my plot holes video came out august 27th was patrick willowms So one week after that's interesting It's interesting isn't it Not yeah not saying anything no accusation It's just interesting to think about But I mean Jesus imagine actually thinking when someone says if everyone behaved logically you couldn't have a good story or drama or anything I'm like no like the opposite is true like the literal opposite is true I just like like that predator example. I gave you guys just like give me an example of a character acting against logic It's the stupid weird being used two different ways because the just give me example of character acting illogically And then they would let's just say baramir in lord the rings when he's going after frodo And I'd be like that's explained logically He needs he wants the power to protect his people He thinks the ring will be able to be used as a weapon against sarin It makes complete sense why he's going after him even though it's actually attacking one of your fellowship members So that's that's fucked up. It's an emotional decision, but it's logically consistent Do you understand the difference? Yeah, and it's also this idea that if people are logical there would be no conflict, which is nonsense Just because people's goals and people's goals and desires and things differ So they're going to come into conflict anyway However, if you would just step back and let these characters make mistakes You could actually realize that a lot of these mistakes also I like the irony that he's using logic to explain how logic doesn't work It's flawed logic Of course characters can make mistakes. It's just which ones and why You know, it's all about the context Holy shit, that's like one for one with patrick's video This is this is so scary We're not gonna tell you the plan Okay, like you could you could tear up his and patrick's videos and play the clips side by side I mean, we could I mean, yeah, we could spend a half an hour talking about this just one point Yeah, we we did go over it the patrick williams. I think that's like episode three of efab But I mean, jesus christ Never be at the point in your story where you say I need this stupid thing to happen to tell my story Be like oh no No, that sounds like you've got a shitty ass story, doesn't it? It's like you might want to find this this solutions to this all you need to do is have it established that holdo knows There's a mole on board. She doesn't know who it is. We have found the originator Think about this right? Yeah, what do you think of this idea? Holdo announces there's a mole and the whole film was led to believe it's it's po And he's prevented from knowing the plan He's all this other stuff happens It turns out it's holdo at the end and that she only did it as a sort of red herring To keep people away from her from trying to sabotage the whole thing Thing is if she if she said Um, you know, she said that po is a mole No one would believe it because po just destroyed a dreadnought for her plan. Well, he destroyed the star killer base This is this is the point where where I mean I would also had tie in that what I just said counters the fact that holdo is supposed to play the role of A hero at the end of the film so that gets thrown out So the rewrites would not stop there. They would just keep going until I fix the entire film Oh, I've just written a different film Anyway Also, yeah, um, a couple people are bringing this up. It's like when the initial conversations were going about whether or not po Was supposed to be a mole in this film um, people were saying the the most classic examples of Turncoats or or like uh moles in in things are often war heroes I didn't look into this, but is that as I got any credence um I I would say that This is just going off of me sitting here in this chair Okay, so my thought process would be that The only moles that are famous that we would hear about Would be the famous ones the ones that the ones that the ones that aren't famous and who are just a bunch of nobodies We would probably never know their name. Well, even if it was true I wouldn't be able to believe it anyway He literally just destroyed one of the most impressive and important pieces of First order technology ever and what the following morning they sent him a text and said would you be on our side now? Yeah, it's like what could they possibly offer him? That's the thing like he is a war hero. He yeah, why would he accept that? I mean like I mean like benedict darnold was sort of a war hero kind of but that's a long story But I I I would think that the ones who Have worked the hardest for their side would be the ones most invested in protecting their side I always found it funny that um They the common argument is po is the only one who wasn't told the plan Do you remember how many people commit mutiny with him? Yeah, no like did anyone know a lot of people are on his side enough to To pull off a successful mutiny people are like fuck. We're gonna die here. We got to do something God the film sucks. I mean it's like you said mauler. It's like you said earlier I was like, what if they gave uh gave him a gun and said point this at your head and shoot it Oh, you didn't do it. Well, you're insubordinate We can't trust you now Hmm. Yeah, by the way mauler. I started watching your five hour series On last year. I'm about halfway through. I'm actually really enjoying it. Oh, that's awesome, man I was half expected to say you'd started bleeding, but I was like, oh, no good I know that the blood hasn't started yet. Yeah, that uh, that was made with pure passion I was just like this is so much wrong in every scene of this goddamn film I really I really just want to move on I find that way Rabbit's asking what good would it be to waste the resources of star killer base by having it destroyed by a mole Yeah, well, I was I didn't even entertain the idea that he's been a mole the whole time because nobody Would sacrifice a weapon like that to convince the opposition that they have a mole. That's stupid Like what are you doing? Yeah, like holy, I mean, I I will admit it would be pretty convincing It would Damn, but why would they bother doing that? Instead of just blowing them up with that weapon doesn't make any sense We'll trade our super weapon for a mole. By the way, super weapons are all planted And as opposed to a weapon, yeah, there's supposed to weapon that can destroy the resistance in one go Anyway, sorry, you don't think about these things on a first viewing guys You don't notice it. It's fine Well, because the movie just established that he is highly insubordinate and that holdo doesn't trust him for a He's highly supported after destroying the star killer base at the He was right and she was wrong. Yeah, that's another important part. Holdo is supposed to be a great general So she knows that the only never shows it She's all the she should know that the only reason she's breathing right now is because po destroyed the dreadnought The only reason anyone's alive right now is because po Made the good call Jay just said it could have been like a clone First order could have a clone of po something like you could try and figure out a way to write that Maybe that would be can try because you should be like since when was what since when was this a thing? But you could work with that own So for the love of god, can we stop citing plot holes as actual criticisms? No, make a better fucking video Maybe we'll listen to no because they all can be valid criticism. So no you literally shot your own Yeah, he's already argued against himself. So what is seven rewrites, man? Co-a-plone god damn it co-a-plone I would I would love to see what the first six were What like if this passes if this is good enough for his standard I would love to know what didn't eat It's like those early scripts of the of the room you hear about Oh, yeah God it's just I hate the words real genuine actual like these these words were they Joseph Anderson did it. He said a genuine genuinely terrified when a game genuinely terrifies you not when it like, you know Fake terrifies you. It's like what does that even work? Stop using these ways. It's like gatekeeping Yeah, it's not based in any principle Please it just drives me crazy because whenever someone brings one up They always seem like they're trying to outsmart the story like they've just proven This is literally the same thing that patrick said. Yeah patrick did this too It's getting a little bit creepy now Mate, I think Sorry, god If somebody told me you're only making that argument to feel smart. I'd be like I don't care I'm right. Yeah, that's not even that's like almost a fallacy. Sure. Some people do but it doesn't it doesn't invalidate the criticism Yes, this is not an argument It's jen you would gatekeeping Tell them to be fooled by the silly writer who devoted a large portion of their life insanity I don't care if it sucks it sucks Oh my god really talk about tommy why so Yeah, that's the thing man. It doesn't matter if you worked for oh, I don't know 11 months and I don't know seven rewrites on something If it shit it shit such a woe is me argument It's like we stop talking about the criticisms this man put his life's work into this. Okay This or extremely famous very rich director. Oh poor this poor poor guy Can I highlight household name? Can I please highlight the this person who made this video uh redrafted his own scripts Six more times than ryan johnson did or seven times probably I guess I'd say so It must have been so many kids so much about to just shit out one script and go with it. Yep. That's baby I mean he's talking about how ryan johnson poured out a large port of his heart insanity He's like what do you think it was to watch it? Also, what about the people? What about the people who put all their work into making criticism videos? Is there hard hard work worth anything? Yeah, moller was your hard work. Yeah, this the force awakens is I know you haven't been working really hard or anything on it No, no, no, it's very whatever just rambled one day into a recording and threw it on some trailer footage and then upload it That's what it was. Yeah, this is a few outsourced This is a feelings thing and I don't care and I'm not gonna play that game. No, we're not This is like try try again. They're who devoted a large portion of their life insanity Deploying everything they hadn't if anyone ever wants to explain why a story is bad in their opinion plot holes are always the first thing to come up Yeah, except when they're not except when they're not Sometimes they do sometimes they don't depends on who you ask and it means nothing if it comes up first or last There you go and there you go, that's the motivation for the video right there And it just gets on my nerves because it gets on my nerves Okay, let me back up just uh, yeah Story like they've just proven that they're too intelligent to be fooled by the silly writer who devoted a large portion of their life insanity Deploying everything they had Ever wants to explain why a story was bad in their opinion plot holes are always the first thing to come up And it just gets on my nerves because focusing on plot logic like this is such an unhelpful way to go about looking at a narrative No, it's not loads of writers find this extremely helpful because they can lean from it. So screw you loads of writers Value well-written stories and they want to cry after what stories they value well written criticism Yeah, and to say that it doesn't matter is to devalue People that don't put in any effort The only people that do put in effort when someone says, uh, let's just go with that loop example They go that plot hole is is exists and then it's on you to be like, okay now. Tell me why it matters That's the next part of the conversation Just because they point one out doesn't mean you now have to hate the film This is again about the cult context thing Because I could have said I love lupa and I really don't care about that one plot hole because it doesn't really matter Unless I could have said that I don't get this This defeatist attitude from people plot holes have defeated us. They were just like, oh, I just we just stopped talking about plot holes You know, we're just gonna lower our standards These are supposed to be the people who are the you know the critics and they're the ones who know all about the good writing And and they're the ones who are saying just standard just drop your standards Don't worry about it. Just make your shitty story and you can't I mean, they're the ones who are saying you can't expect Writing is hard. So you can't expect good writing. Yeah, but they made something therefore They've they've achieved some kind of like everybody gets a trophy, but When you're asking I'm sorry, but if you're asking me to pay money to see your film I cannot accept no standards in writing I can't just accept oh because it's hard That these problems aren't problems in the same way. I might be willing to overlook them depending on the context, but sorry Since actually I will forget Simba since since was actually in the chat and he said he actually liked lupa because like I did too I like lupa. I like it. I I I'd say I like lupa, but I have a lot of writing issues with it It's very relevant to what's going on right now. It's possible to do both. That's the thing Yeah, what's the subjective versus the objective? They can the objective Information can affect your subjective experience both before and after finding it out as in like, you know, you you experience x Then someone breaks down all the plot stuff to you and then you watch it again and now you experience y Yeah, yeah, don't you want to ask these people don't you want writing to get better? Don't you want stories to be good? How does this help towards encouraging better writing? Well, I found it interesting that he references how, you know, Ryan poured his heart and soul into it And it's like so what about the guy over there the poor double that to make the story incredibly consistent and even more Wide in in breadth of what it covers. Do we appreciate them both the same or do we say exactly what yms said in patrick's video? in the comment Yeah, like recognize when people achieve greatness and encourage it encourage it when they don't Encourage people to do better and don't devalue the efforts of those that try Yes, we're just gonna get the last Jedi over and over again. We'll just it's the same in chat It's like this anti meritocratic kind of attitude you know just Another thing I'm not I'm not saying like ryan johnson stop making films. You can't do it whatsoever I'd be like learn from this ryan johnson. Please please Yeah, learn from your mistakes and get better like we're not saying don't make movies I mean some people probably I mean, yes There's nothing wrong with it, but so he's probably not gonna learn fucking shit. Well Well, no, but we can hope All right, one minute. I I want it. Yeah, I want to see what the rest of what he has to say It completely misses the point of what storytelling is really about and tends to lead to a lot of really about Again, it's exactly what patrick willim said Tends to do a lot of genuine works of art being genuine again. Oh my god. Stop using these words It's missed. I should probably clarify. There's nothing wrong with just poking fun at or chatting about stories this way How it should have ended is one of my favorite youtube channels. They're hilarious But there's a reason these are parodies and not genuine criticism. Ah, my god Sometimes they I think sometimes some of the examples they use are genuine though Yeah, they play it in a joking way Yeah, you can you know, I mean the point of the channel is comedy, right? But that doesn't mean the examples they're using can't be You know valid What are the words are the genuine real actual Valid Yeah valid True real um proper Um genuine Yeah, I'm just gonna throw that in a parody video. Yes, maybe um worthy. Yeah Real worthy. Yeah. Oh, look at his face now. Look at his face. He's so serious. He's angry and he's closer to the screen But yeah, uh, he she and i do not trailers and cinema sins by the way, all three of them are parody satire comedy plus Because this is the thing. This is what cinema sins claims. So don't take my word for it, but um, you'll find genuine real actual criticism inside these videos Along with uh jokes and this is a thing that can happen I mean it was happening in cosmonauts video. He's making some jokes and at the same time we were like wait, is that Because that is where it comes from does not change the merit of the argument being made Then is that plot holes do not Matter. No, he's wrong. What about all the times you told us they do man? Well, that's all the times you've made it. Yeah So the next time you want to criticize a story for a plot hole ask yourself Is the plot hole really the reason I dislike this story or am I just trying to feel like an intellect? Who said that it was I'm sorry, but this is the same thing. We're just right. I said, um, I explained the the issue with with holdo And then he said something along the lines of like it didn't bother me. It clearly bothered you and I was like I didn't tell you if it bothered me. I'm literally just talking about its existence so far Yeah, you're trying to assume like Assuming how we should feel about it. He's assuming that I don't like the film because of a plot hole when it's like No, I just want to talk about its existence It's like you understand and then and then like we can determine how important it is to the plot as in If it causes a major thing to happen that the whole film is about that's big or if it's the existence of a lamp that was smashed It's like yeah, like a plot hole might make make a film bad in the context of everything else or it might not But it might make you feel intelligent And he doesn't like you could say that about literally any film criticism Anything being correct makes me feel intelligent fucking And the reason is that plot holes do not Matter so the next time you want to criticize a story for a plot hole Ask yourself is the plot hole really the reason I just like this story or am I just trying to feel like an intellectual because no Ask yourself if the plot hole that you pointed out is actually a plot hole Yeah, yeah, that'll be a good start. Yeah, that's fine. Find out if your argument is a valid one And if it is good if it isn't good you've still found you've found out you've learned you've grown Explored you've grown you've improved don't lower your standards because of Guys like this you don't think yeah Yeah, just because not everything that everyone says is a plot is a ball is a plot hole Doesn't mean the plot holes don't exist or don't matter. Hmm Because if you really genuinely dislike something I can promise you that a good 95 percent of the time The logic is not the problem I'm glad you know me so well. Yeah, fuck you you piece of fucking shit Even if it's your thing is even if it's only five percent it still matters Yeah, so one out of 20 times. I'm right Yeah, this is he keeps telling us way different ways that it matters that he's also like they don't though seven rewrites All right. Well tana mc eave tea. We'll we'll extend the same MicaVity micaVity. I don't know mc vitties. Uh, he music is too loud He's where's they are mckay to make a micky vity child tanner. He's overdone He's down there on the basement making his videos on the plots or whatnot Same goes for cosmonaut obviously, but you're welcome to come on if you'd like to clarify your position on plot holes But I defend your shitty ass video and tell me what I'm thinking the more Yeah, no hard feelings, but the video wasn't very good. No hard feelings. But fuck you and that's another two on the list of They went very good More people who are gonna block you on twitter But yeah, that that's that's it. I'll I'll quickly go through the super chats, but I think we're five hours is pretty strong I think People are basically saying now if it's not six hours. It's short. I'm like, please no Oh god, we've seen a terrible presence Um, you only have yourself to blame. This is true You need this to me modi pipe on holy grail to campy plot hole matter not I think that that's uh There's some shakespearian quote right there The trolls in mortals armies are olag high war trolls which sarron magically modified to be war beasts They can speak but only in black speech. Well, I mean, I don't think that's in the film, but I've always assumed that um You remember the scene where they kill sarron and then the troll just wakes up sort of and just goes off fucking runs away It's supposed to be an implication that he was being controlled I keep missing starter streams due to gmt plus 10 but keep up the good work guys Still on the edge of my seat for the tfa breakdown. It's on its way Imagine if wolf were here eating this hearing this guy straw manning lord Wolf wouldn't be happy he'd be very angry Sword art online is shite jojo equals best current anime fair enough past the bleach. I'm getting thirsty wonderful Uh robot chicken makes every well written. I get robot chicken makes every well written. I guess Oh, is it because they do a lot of plot correction parody stuff? Yeah. Yeah, I do Guys parody's done to matter. I think I think a lot of people picked up on your uh, your criticism of his lettering ranks um They did there was two super chats that related to us. Oh my god If uh, if you ever need a weeb consultant, let me know this is going to be I know that there's plenty of people in chat We were going to suggest you're all our weeb consultants for that I go past one and two Uh, I've watched the tlg review three times on I wasn't bored, but in all seriousness I really enjoyed it. Do you bow? I know rags knows the reference. Do you know that one, uh, chris? Uh, no the board is the it's I hit everything's video where he said the third time he watched the last Jedi he wasn't bored Oh, yeah, yeah, it's just like Third time Anyone notice how similar holder is to matt adam malkovich from metroid other m. I have not played it Deliberately because I keep hearing about it is This super chat is just my opinion. Uh, your super chat is offensive. No you Good stuff guys. Uh, thank you very much for the donations would um Since we're sort of wrapping up now A wonderful guest today has been or tonight or whatever. Yeah, it is it is this morning now for me and chris over in britain It is uh, how was uh Do you want to do you want to say um some stuff about your channel? Why these people should jump right over and subscribe immediately? Uh, you should subscribe because of my voice Everyone does Um, yeah, so I basically have a channel in which I essentially take a piss out of things. Um Mostly movies, but like whatever I can make a good of good video on and just take the piss out of it Uh, I also do sometimes to make more serious Uh criticism videos, so I did one on um patrick willams this plot holes video and one on disenchanted for example Yeah, start start with the patrick willams one guys if you like my stuff and rags you'll be like that'll be a good Yeah, that's that's how uh, that's how these guys found me in the first place. Hmm. Yeah Yeah, I do like that video, but I can't rewatch it because I find him so cringy Leave him alone. He has an opinion So do why That's true. Um But yeah, I just like to have a laugh basically, so um, yeah No, good stuff. I've had a lot of fun. Um, obviously, you know guys way to catch me in rags I assume your fans of us if you're on this ridiculously terrible Uh, how could you rags bite him? I'm just using you for views Yeah, uh the reupload The reupload of this video will be on that link. I've just posted the second channel and um, yeah Thanks for coming on uh chris. Would you would you like to come on again sometime if we find some more plot hole related videos? Not just plot hole videos. No So plot holes videos are off-limits star wars is off-limits. You have to find something else It's now become like a meme on my channel spider-man's off-limits. So Yeah, but yeah, I worked. Yeah, it's been fun. Good stuff. Um Um Yeah, yeah, I think that's that's about it in closing. Do you want to do you want to say anything rags? Um, send sins, uh cinema sin sins said that I just checked the guy's channel and he appears to have a video bashing infinity war Oh, you know what? I'll have a look into that. Maybe we'll cover that next time Or we can cover it with uh when cinema sin sins comes back on because I think you'd probably want to do that We shall see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be cool. I was actually gonna say we can both do it Rags you want to give an update for Video stuff coming. Yes, I'm working on a video. Um, but I'm also right now. I should probably finish it tonight Um, I have to do the tedious work of assembling all of the new art assets, which is Like 300 images right now But I have about half of it done And it's just just really tedious but I can finish that up today Um, and then those will be ready and then whenever I get new stuff I just add it to the old stuff But it's just it's a long process, but I've got it aligned out Um, it looks really really good. I think you guys really really like it exciting stuff, um My videos are just consistently on their way. That's I wish I could say more But I mean without going into detail that'll bore the crap out of you the I've got patreon updates They're all free. You can just check out all the details of uh, I got posts of my timeline And what's going to be in them and when I expect things to be done So if you guys are super curious, that's where you can find the information but We'll do probably um, we'll we'll keep up the weekly e-faps It's good to get an e-fap done every week. I'd say make sure it's healthy I think you guys would agree with that. Um, so next time we'll figure out who may or may not be Guesting you never know with these things and uh, what we'll be covering is a complete mystery as well But thank you all for the very kind donations and the company you provided I hope you had fun And we shall see you next time Bye