 And I'm very happy to have two speakers here who will tell us about their experiences on the Juventa, the ship that was seized in August this year. Katrin has been doing search and rescue operations in the Mediterranean since two years. And she was on board when the boat was seized, when the Juventa was seized, and she was even head of staff. Hendrik has also been active in search and rescue operation as a rip, which is a kind of special function, and he's also been doing this for two years, approximately for different NGOs. And I'm very happy that they're here and can tell us about what happened on the Juventa. So we have translation to German on the mumble that is in the back now, and yeah. Please welcome them to, with a big applause. Thank you. No? Okay. Yeah, thanks for the introduction. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the talk, the seizure of the Juventa. We are glad that a few people made it here. When we actually planned for the talk, we were planning for one hour, so we put a lot of content in the description, and it was only two weeks ago that we learned we only have half an hour, so we were really pressed to focus a bit. So yeah, what I will do is I will give you a quick introduction into the area we operate in, which is the central Mediterranean. I will tell you what we do there. And after that, Katrin will talk about the actual seizure of the Juventa. So this is Katrin. I am Hendrik, obviously. I think you already noticed that. So yeah, I like maps. So I put this map in the slides. So migration is happening. We all know that. And people are trying to reach Europe in search of a better and safer life. So the reasons why they are fleeing are very different. They are war, violence, discrimination, prosecution or poverty. They all have their reasons to leave their homes. So what we see here is the routes these refugees take are constantly changing. And that is due to changing political circumstances. We have different routes through the Mediterranean for a while now. We have the Eastern route that was quite famous two years ago when a lot of people tried to cross the Mediterranean from Turkey to Greece. That was basically closed. We had the Western route like 10, 15 years ago. A lot of people tried to cross it from Morocco to Spain or to the Canary Islands. And at the moment, we mainly are focusing on the central Mediterranean route. That is where all the migration, most of the migration is happening. People are trying to cross mainly from Libya, which is the brown spot at the bottom, to Italy. In the last couple of months, there also were people trying to cross from Tunisia, still the main part of the migration is happening through Libya. So to give you a better understanding about what we are talking here, we draw you a map with some distances on it. The distances are given in nautical miles. That is the unit we use at sea. So just to give you an example, like under perfect conditions, a refugee boat that would leave Libya would take at least three days to Lampedusa. More than four days to Malta and more than five and a half days to Sicily. That would be under perfect conditions that never exist. There are always waves. There is wind. The boats often don't have a compass so they don't know where to go. So in fact, the only boat we know of that really made it to Malta was underway for eight days. So the distances these people have to cross have to cover are quite long. Yeah. So the classic boats we encounter on that route are these type of boats. Below you see a wooden boat. These wooden boats have really different sizes. They take from 100 up to 1,000 people, usually 500 people with plus minus 100. But they fit up to 1,000 people in there. And on the upper part you see the typical boat that was used until last summer. And that is the rubber boat. 120 to 150 people usually fit in there. But we also encountered boats with 180 people in them. So yeah. These conditions like these boats and the long distance and these not seaworthy boats of course make this route the most dangerous route in the world. So the most people trying to cross borders are dying in the Mediterranean. You see the statistics, they are from the missing migrants project. They only collect the data of the known deaths. So these are no absolute numbers, it's just a relation. So the big dark blue part is the relation of the people dying in the Mediterranean related to the rest of the world. So I think you all see that the Mediterranean is really, really a dangerous route to take. But still people are forced to use this route because Europe and their allies are basically closing off the shorter and safer routes. So the international law states a duty to rescue people in distress. We always have acted and complied with these laws of the sea and these international laws. And we are fulfilling a duty that usually is up to the European Union. But they are not willing to do that. So the NGOs had to step in to rescue these people. So the region we are operating in, thanks. So the region we are operating in is also regulated by international laws. So you have Libya there, of course, the Libyan law applies as well as in the sea zone up to the 12 mile line, which is the red line you see there. This is also Libyan territorial waters. And from the 12 mile on, it's basically international waters. We have the so-called contiguous zone up to 24 miles, where the Libyan authorities have certain law enforcement rights. But it still is international waters. So the blue shape you see is the search and rescue area, where we find most of the boats. And that is basically where we operate up to the 12 mile line. We don't cross the 12 mile line, usually. So to be able to conduct effective operations, we needed, of course, to buy a ship. Because without a ship, you cannot go there. So the Juventa was bought and the Juventa was sent to the area where most boats get in distress. That means we are doing proactive search and rescue. Proactive in this case means we go there before boats get in distress and actively search for them. That is because ships move slowly, so we cannot wait on Malta until ships get in distress, until boats get in distress, because it would take us 24 hours to get there. So for us, it is important to be there when the people depart from shore. Because these boats you saw on the slides before, they are immediately in distress case, as soon as they are in the open sea. There's no discussion about that. As soon as one of these overcrowded boats is in the open sea, they are in a distress case. They don't have to sink to be in a distress case. So we need to go there before they depart to be able to help immediately. The Juventa is a very small ship. You can see that it's only 33 meters long. There's not much people fitting on there and for transfer, it usually can take only the crew. So we act as a first response unit. When we find the boats in distress, we secure them with life jackets and life rafts. So we supply life jackets to the people on the boat and, if necessary, bring out life rafts and evacuate people on the life rafts. And we then call for bigger ships that transfer them to Italy. You can see one of these bigger ships here. It's the Vos Prudence. It was used by MSF. It was chartered, basically. And this is a way bigger ship and it can take way more people and it can bring them safely to Italy. So these transfers to these big ships, we always do in close cooperation with the Maritime Rescue Coordination Center in Rome, the so-called MRCC. The MRCC is responsible for distress cases in that area. So they are there to coordinate the rescue operations and they are always ordering the transfer of the migrants. So whenever we transferred migrants to one of these big ships, the MRCC ordered us to do so. We never did that on our own. But you have to keep in mind the MRCC is not an agency that is acting independently. It basically is a subordinate of the Interior Ministry in Italy. So it is bound by instructions to the Interior Ministry. So you have to keep that in mind for later when Katrin is telling you something. So, as I already said, the Juventa is not suited to transport people to a place of safety. It is only there to secure them. That was always clearly communicated with the MRCC and we always acted as a first responder and secured the situation. That was our job, that is what we are good at. So this is how we operated from the beginning and this is how we operated on another NGO vessel I've been in 2016, the Minden. It was the same case. We were there as a first responder. We secured the people, transferred them to bigger vessels. They then brought them to Italy. This is also how all the other NGOs working there work, like CI, SeaWatch, MSF, Safety Children, MOAs, Mission Lifeline and all the other NGOs working there. We are not alone there. And it was a successful proven concept. So just to tell it once more, the concept is we have smaller boats staying there, securing the people. And once they are secured, we call for bigger ships, call for help, transfer them to these bigger ships and they then bring them to a place of safety, which usually is Italy. But in May 2017, suddenly some things started to change for the Juventa. And one thing I may want to emphasize again is that everything we did was always under the coordination of the Rescue Coordination Center in Rome in Italy. And up until then we really had a good working relationship with them. We were conducting successful and very efficient search operations, rescue operations, maybe a little bit too efficient. So we can say a chain of unusual events started in May this year. And one situation I want to talk about now is when we received distress calls over the radio about numerous migrant boats in distress in an area we were in. And the other ships in vicinity who had found those boats, they called us and asked for our assistance to rescue these people. And up until then, not an unusual situation, however, all of a sudden, we were requested by the MRCC, the Coordination Center in Rome, to withdraw, to leave the search and rescue zone immediately and to go to Lampedusa. So to make that clear, we were ordered to ignore the stress calls of people who were at imminent lives of the threat of their life and go away. This has never happened before until then. So as you can imagine, we were torn back and forth, whether we should actually do that or not. We were somewhat obliged to follow their instructions. But it did mean, obviously, that we had to leave people on these boats in distress behind. And I can remember the persistent efforts that day we were trying to make and also others were trying to make to keep the Juventa in the Sars zone for that situation. And however, it did not work out, it continued insisting. And finally, we had to give in and proceeded to Lampedusa. And unfortunately, later, we learned that those two days when the Juventa was absent, which turned into one of the most busiest rescue periods we had seen in 2017, many hundred people lost their lives. And the remaining capacities in the Sars zone were just way beyond their capacities. So this very procedure continued twice, once more in May and another time in June. And again, back then, we were absolutely in the dig as to what could possibly be the motivation behind such instructions. And we realized something had changed. The good working relationship with the MICC, for some reason, wasn't that good anymore? But we did not understand what was going on, why are they behaving like that? And I mean, we have to realize that this is an authority whose duty it is to coordinate rescue, rescues at sea and to save people's lives at sea. And they are withdrawing and actively reducing search and rescue ships from where and when they're needed most. We were utterly astonished, not to say speechless. And we could imagine various scenarios until then. Of course, we were quite aware that the situation they were dealing with is really, I mean, not easy to deal with. So we were a lot of the times putting it down to, hey, okay, they're probably really overwhelmed with dealing all these increasingly complicated rescues in the Mediterranean and eventually that leading to really poor decision making. However, such incidents kept occurring. And at the end of July, the Italian Coast Guard transferred two migrants on board of the Juventa. And they had found them in a really small rubber boat. They had left from Tripoli and they requested us to take them on board. So again, that was a rather unusual event. Never happened before, as we learned from Hendrik before. The boats are usually a little bit bigger than three meters and there are usually a few more people than two on there. Yet, you know, what of what's happening out there is actually normal. So yes, we took those two people on board and we accommodated our guests for two days before we actually got any instructions as to how to continue. And we were kind of almost expecting that we had to proceed to Lampedusa with our two guests. Yeah, so underway to Lampedusa, approximately halfway, we received another distress call from Rome about that had apparently left Indonesia in the early morning. And what was really interesting that day was that they gave us super precise instructions as to how to perform a search pattern. A search pattern is like the organized way of performing a search at sea with the coordinates and the distances, the speed you go. So they were in total control of what we did and how we did it. And they were making sure continuously that we are following their plan. Something never happened before because usually they were really not interested in how we performed the search as long as we found the boats, obviously. So while they were making us perform a search pattern, that would have taken us three days to complete the way they ordered us to do it. They neither gave us an official distress notification nor an official search and rescue case number, both of which would be the usual procedure. Yeah, and probably worth by adding is that also the event I was the only ship involved in that search that day. All the other ships, which is not a few between Tunisia and Lampedusa, had obviously not been informed. Another private rescue ship that happened to be in the area was initially declined by the MRCC to support us. And, but then I kept insisting like, hey guys, we cannot possibly do this on our own. And so eventually they allowed them to join into the search. Very interesting also is that we requested the support of a surveillance plane, of a private surveillance plane by Seawatch, the Moonbird. And it was completely rejected and declined from warning till evening that day. So Moonbird never left the ground in Malta that day. And yep, believe it or not, we were still not fully convinced that the MRCC's decisions are actually really solely driven by the interests of the Ministry of Interior in Italy. We were still somewhat in denial, thinking that something like law enforcement would be beyond their scope really. And so our paranoia level had simply just not, could not grasp yet the dimension of where this would take us. Until the very moment when we reached Italian territorial waters close to Lampedusa and four Coast Guard ships escorted us with blue lights into the harbor of Lampedusa. And Juventa was searched and seized on August the second. So slowly it was dribbling. All these events beforehand started to make sense, fell into place. And in fact, there's a lot of facts now in hindsight that we can put in order and we know that the warrants for the search as well as for the seizure had both been signed one day before we actually came to Lampedusa. And also the complete confiscation order of the Juventa had been leaked to the media in advance. So they could be there, they could receive us in the middle of the night. They were waiting for us at the period of Italian press. And, you know, then you think, oh, okay, that search pattern we did. Well, what was that about? Were they buying time to fly in all these police officers that ended up on our ship? And, but one thing we know for sure now is that the scenario I talked about before when they withdrew the Juventa from just this course that day in May, that was actually a price they accepted to pay to install a bug on the bridge of the Juventa that day. And also when they continuously ordered the Juventa back to Lampedusa, I mean now that kind of starts making sense as well if you consider that the capacity of a SD card may not be that big for over such a long time. And, yeah, round about the same time when the bug was installed on the bridge of the Juventa, there were also two, there was also one undercover cop placed on another private rescue ship and he later produced forged evidence to incriminate the crew of the Juventa. So in fact, the investigation we then learned of the Juventa crew by the Italian authorities was started as early as September 2016, last year. When two security officers on board of another vessel, they were both former cops, had proactively informed not only special police forces dealing with organized crime in Sicily, but also the Italian foreign intelligence service and a politician of the Liga Nord in Italy. And although their testimonies were somewhat contradictory and they were reporting strange behavior of the Juventa, they actually did prompt a large scale investigation. So the accusations that are meant to justify the seizure of the ship include facilitation of illegal immigration, collusion with human traffickers and possession of firearms. However, until this day, there are no criminal charges against any individual crew members nor against the organization, which I guess works in their favor as well because they have reached what they wanted. They board time, they have one ship less in the search and rescue area at the moment. And the moment they actually get a trial, they start having to produce real evidence, which may be trouble for them. So the seizure of the Juventa, they called the so-called preventive measure and that was only enabled by anti-mafia laws, which by the way were also used against for similar cases like the Cappanamore in 2005 and Tunisian Fissures in 2007, both of which cases, the charges had to be dropped after some years. Still the damage was done. So we have of course appealed the seizure in the meantime at the court in Trapani, but as we expected, that was rejected and has been taken to the next level at the Supreme Court in Rome. And yeah, we are now waiting for them to decide whether actually the seizure of the Juventa was legal or not. What we had to learn in the aftermath was that the seizure of the Juventa was only a small part in a way bigger political fight. What the EU actually wants to do is they want to shut down the central Mediterranean route at all costs. And what they also want to prevent is pictures of drowning people. And instead of sending ships there to rescue these people, what they want to do is they want to get rid of the witnesses that document how the people drown and actually save them. And so they are trying to stop the NGOs from working there. So, yeah, so what we learned is that the fight for the Juventa we are fighting at the moment is not a legal fight, but a political fight. And we are waging that fight together with a lot of other NGOs that are active there in the central Mediterranean. So for us, of course, the seizure of the Juventa was a drawback. We don't have a ship anymore with which we can operate. But still, you can see also with constant pressure, sometimes there are positive surprises. For example, in December, the United Nations made an evacuation flight for migrants from Libya directly to Europe. And that, of course, was only possible because of the constant media work a lot of NGOs did so that the European Union had to react and allow that. So what this also shows us is that with patience and continuous struggle, it still is possible to drill small holes into the walls of fortress Europe. Didn't you get that fight? Thank you. Thanks. Breathtaking. Thank you so much. So, do we have questions? We have some microphones in this hall so you can just go there and place yourself. Okay. I think I'll start from number six. Yes, hello. Thank you for the good work. You mentioned a charge of firearms on the ship. Were there any? Yeah, good question. No, they have not found any evidence at all during the search. And we also later learned that they had to include the section into the accusation to actually justify the seizure at all because those other two accusations would have not been strong enough to justify the seizure. Okay, microphone one, please. Thanks for the talk. I had three quick questions. How much did the Juventa cost? How much would it cost to buy a new ship? And is this feasible? I actually have no idea how much that ship costs. Do you know it? I roughly know how much a ship in that size would cost now at a similar age. We're probably looking at between 180 to 250,000 euro. And feasible or not, from an economic point of view, probably doable, yes. I mean, people have done it before and it's probably possible to do it again. From a political point of view, it's certainly debatable whether, yeah, how to proceed and what the right action is at this point. Okay, we have a signal. We have a question from the internet, please. Is what happened to your ship unique or are there other ships that have been seized? Actually, the seizure is unique, but there have been other ships that have been searched by the cops like from Save the Children and MSF. Okay, number one, please. Something to the answer of that question. In our file, we certainly also know that while they're investigating against the Juventa crew, they have tapped phones of numerous people that also work for all the other NGOs, mainly in Italy. So we know that this is going over and beyond what happened to us, but we were just like a digestible bite put it that way. What a bite. Okay, number one, please. Say I've got a half a year free time on hands. Where do I sign up? It sounds great. I can invite you to come to the assembly afterwards. We have just humans assembly in hall two where a lot of these NGOs I mentioned in the talk actually are, so just come and talk to us and find us there. Okay, one last question. I hope it's a short question because we just got two more minutes. Thanks for the talk and thanks for the work you do. One question, the bug. Was it actually legal? Was the legal operation they did that? And how do you know that there is a bug? Did there have been a bug? We know that there is a bug because it's part of the investigation file that we were handed over, part of the 500 pages investigation file. We know the exact date and time when the bug has been installed and around about where, namely on the bridge of the Juventa. Whether or not that action was legal because we're looking at Italian authorities planting a bug on a ship under a Dutch flag bugging people in international waters mostly from German descent. Until today, we have not got a clear answer to that question. We are still asking a number of lawyers around Europe and it's probably a situation and it doesn't happen too often, but also you warmly invited to come around to our assembly and we can talk about that a little bit more because that's one of the most interesting and pressing questions we have as well. So, like the two said, assembly hall two, just humans, it's a space, you can meet them, they can ask more questions. And thank you once again. Thanks for having us.