 Hi everyone, can you hear me sure sure Yes, right there. Hi So I'm going to wait for a few minutes if more people show up Hopefully more people will show up than just the regulars and the interested parties Normally we wait for about two or three minutes. Hi guys One more minute and we start And by the way the session is being recorded, so we can have Reserve the session and Make it available for people who are interested. I think the attendance during these Holiday months are going to be very challenging Because normally people just drop off and they do not show up But today we have seven so far and We are waiting for one more minute before we start We are waiting and I think we are going to start in a second First of all This session is meant to be a look back and a look forward at the next year there are a lot of exciting things happening a lot of things are a lot of Conferences Everything else going on at the same time So I guess it's a challenge to host an open source meeting like this and to have good participation First things first we have to do a couple of administrative things one is the The fact that We are operating under the Linux foundation and hence we have to stick by the Antitrust policy Which you can read in detail and that is one of the requirements the other is The code of conduct which says That even when disagreeing with people You cannot be disagreeable and also Give credit where credit is due and do not harass people which are you know common sense sort of Things that We all can agree with I hope so without Waiting too much. I think I'm going to just start to ask see to talk about the The youth that he has found in the Work that we have done previously which is basically created a Working model of a wholesale CBDC in five hyper ledger labs Obviously used certain Properties and it made certain assumptions Which you know, it's a it's a general Tokens uses a general token standard taken from TTF And now migrated to IWA So that is That's the interesting part The more interesting part to me anyway is the fact that This can become the basis for creating other tokens with changes as the notes in his In his Wiki page where he has gone into great detail on what is What is necessary to make the token work For a carbon For a climate accounting Where which he has proposed three types of and also proposed We do the analysis in a similar way which is We basically go through the roles that are needed and the property and the behaviors that are needed and Additionally, he has also proposed certain properties We are in the process of proposing the new properties to the IWA because They need the input from people like us Although they are a closed system in the sense that you need to be a member to contribute but they have Even me a observer status and also checking credentials on their website, I mean on their github so on the github I can do a PR if We can agree on what is needed and then they they'll either accept it or not accept it But it doesn't matter because we can have our own private fork and create those those properties ourselves and also use the private fork Including all the other tools that they have in order to create all the artifacts the key Key element of this is that it goes from a business use case modeling perspective to the actual artifacts needed and It also creates an output in the form of a PDF file that can be used in a business context with examples other prop other things that are More palatable to a business Perspective so it unites the business perspective with the technical perspective because Goes from the formula to you know a PDF file to everything else Anyway, I don't want to hold up too much of the time since he's here And I would ask him to speak a little bit about the use and the To have people add on to this to the climate change Channel that he has created and he's been very active in this in this fear And also he has made a presentation here a long time ago on On tokenization Which which is also available I Want to surface it to others anyway, go ahead see you can you can also share your screen if you want to And we can Go ahead, I'll mute myself and give it enough time for others to react Also, we have to talk to these people about what our plans are for 2021 Okay, great. Hi everybody. So nice to meet you and thanks for the introduction Beepen. So this came about Actually about a month or more ago when we were working on how to create tokens from emissions calculator from utility bills and I was thinking back to some of the examples when I Have worked as a fund manager and we worked with a lot of securitizations and how to link basically a Non-fungible asset or non-fungible data records to a fungible token in a way that Loans which are non-fungible are pulled into a security which is fungible and so we had a little discussion on your mailing list with you and money and Subsequently actually money and I spoke and he Explained to me more about what the e-failure project and the code base that you've created actually does so I Thought about it and actually I realized that Obviously what you created is a wholesale central bank currency but it could also be used to model emissions tokens in a variety of Systems, so I create I started working on this we went through your CVDC examples and and looked at what it did and we came up with this which is a page on the wiki and it's a Basically an emissions tokens network that could be used to trade and record and and transact in emissions and offsets so I won't read through all of it for I'll just leave most of this here because some of this obviously like the unit of some measure quantity and Whatever these are specific to us in the emissions field The way that we're doing this is is in a lot of ways similar to how your CVDC works We have three types of tokens The results of an emissions audit carbon offsets and renewable energy certificates And so here instead of having a central bank. We could have one or more Authorities that could mint these tokens and then once the tokens are minted There could be Certifiers or auditors who would then issue them. So these are entities that review data and records from climate projects or from business operations and determine the amount of emissions and Then they could then from that data mint a token and place it on this network And then the other thing we thought we should add is then those people would be able to register their customers which are everyday businesses and consumers on the network and Those consumers and businesses would then start to trade or transfer tokens to each other as a way to transfer emissions Offsets with each other and finally there's the What's different here is you have this concept of burn with a currency where currency is removed from circulation This unfortunately doesn't happen with emissions. They don't get removed from the atmosphere very easily But there is a similar concept called retire So when a token is retired That means it's permanently counted towards your emissions total and it can't be transferred to anybody else so Basically, we have a set of operations and a set of players that are very similar to what you have in your central bank digital currency and I go through some examples of what the fields are And just with this kind of a network we could do some interesting things like for example, there are these cap and trade mechanisms for emissions So we could have This kind of a thing based on your CBDC model a cap and trade regime Okay, where the central authority the central bank becomes the cap and trade authority basically the government agency that runs it It would issue allowable emissions to all the different members all the companies that are allowed to emit Greenhouse gases and then they could trade them amongst themselves And then as the emissions are counted Like during an annual audit that tokens are retired. So then you keep account of how much different people have used versus Had purchased in terms of their cap and trade total and then That's so that's one possibility another is these green banks which finance Climate projects energy efficiency renewable energy type of projects and they could use These kind of tokens to account for the actual effect of what they do So those are just a couple of interesting examples here And then I know VP you had asked about this event that took place a couple weeks ago Called the open climate collab with them So I'll just go over really quickly because I think there's also a thread there that will be of interest to you guys So the open climate collab with them happened. I think earlier this month and it was three days of Basically sessions on a lot of different climate related topics. You had people talk about the Paris Agreement talk about fine mitigate Data standards And a lot of it, you know, it's very specific to climate and to land use or Climate offsets and calculations, but what was interesting in the discussions, at least for me and I think maybe for you guys as well, is there are a couple of currency related initiatives. So there's this group. Okay, and they're creating what's called a community currency involvement. So what the idea of this is They decide on projects that benefit a local township and then for people who are doing those projects. As you see in these pictures, they get The equivalent a currency unit that they can spend with just the local businesses in that community And apparently I'm talking with them. There's an example of this called Sardex, which is a In the Italian island of Sardinia. This apparently has gotten some volume of usage And it's a way to incentivize local action and local credit systems. So this is kind of this is a currency that ties Things like climate and social projects together. And then This is another project that I had actually heard about through the open climate clabbathon through an economist and also a presentation there. So Deldin Chen is in Australia and he's worked on this idea of basically creating a global carbon reward, which becomes a central bank asset, a reserve asset and against which the central bank is Could issue currency units against. So basically the idea is that the central banks could then directly through issuing currency fund climate reduction and risk mitigation. So this Obviously then links exactly what we're talking about. Here with emissions calculations very directly with a central bank digital currency and I had a conversation with him and told him about your project and he's he was very interested in what you're doing as well. So maybe there'll be some interesting synergies for you guys. So I think that what was interesting is that your focus obviously on Central bank digital currency in Financial sense but within the climate climate, And I think that's a good point. So I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. Is that your focus obviously on Central bank digital currency in Financial sense, but within the climate community, there's definitely an interest in creating alternative parallel community different types of currencies. That are tied to climate action and social goods. And so this might be another place where you could see Projects such as your e-failer project being used. And so I guess that's just my introduction. I'd be happy if anybody had questions to answer them. Does anybody have questions. Bobby hi, it's Bobby. How are you. I say how are you doing. Good. Nice to see you again. Great presentation. Every time I hear you, it's growing and developing in such a positive way. Okay, thanks. I'm just putting my thinking cap on here and just seeing so now that these this net emissions token network framework is being thought of and starting to be put in place. For you, what are the next steps and how can the community help get this actually Using we have people using it. Yeah, that's a great question. I think you know we want to deploy this so my very short term goal is to get utilities data tokenized on a real production net emissions token network. So we could sign up put in our utility bills and each of us could get a record of our emissions from our utility bills. And then collectively we could go buy some renewable energy certificates or offsets to offset our utility emission. So, relatively simple use case but it will prove out all the technology pieces in a real environment like sending sending data and recording it and seeing it and transacting and then from there, we would expand on it. So, part of that is signing up people who want to try this and I think in the initial stages. It probably would be other open source developers hyper ledger community developers like ourselves who would like who are interested in both in the climate aspects but also the technology of it. Great, thank you. Money. Yeah. Hi, hi. Yes, it's great presentation. Just to follow up on that. Thank you. We definitely we have actually not only beyond CBDC we did that proof of concept and we added ESG tokens as we discussed in our calls. And that's, although it is not in the open source but it's just a token from a commercial perspective. ESG tokens will have a bigger impact on the capital markets. So that's another area where we know there's a real applicability of this and beyond CBDC. The question for for you is that is, while you're working on it, a couple of things you would like to see is that is how much of it is how much of your work can be on the open open source number one. And also considering the fact that you have documented a lot of those token definitions, maybe that could be another area we can consolidate and make it like more like a common mini standard for capital markets as to how you define tokens, whether it is carbon or CBDC or ESG, now there's a separate thing called TTF, the TTF gives you more of the behaviors of the token, but beyond that there is more capital market oriented properties we need to capture. So that may be of help as well. So your thoughts on that would be great. Yeah, thank you. Well, most everything that I'm showing you here we plan on making open source. So actually, some of what could be beneficial to you is we're going to be developing a client for this emissions token network and I think it will probably pour over to the E-Failer network pretty easily and work. At this point we're thinking about using some of the, I guess, Ethereum, Dapp, or Dapp framework and technologies like Node.js and wallets and so on. So this could be a way for you to actually create something for the E-Failer project that could be more of a consumer facing access to that CBDC as well. But everything that I'm talking about we're planning to make open source. And yeah, I would love to contribute any of this towards any standards or just help with that if anybody's interested. So certainly. So first of all, I like to say thank you for showing up and being so engaged to make a couple of points here. One of the points is that the name Thaler comes from Joachim Stahler, which is a coin that was created locally in Bohemia in 1518. So local coins have had an incredible history and obviously the reason why people went away from local coins to central bank is because some of the private guys started abusing the system and generating tokens without control. But central banks never do. Well, central banks are a different entity because they have the backing of the full sovereign state behind them, which is a totally different thing. I'm not saying that they have been holding back, but the situation in the US before the central bank was created was huge numbers of private tokens and people were, you know, banks would bust left and right. You know, in this case, the whole country of the United States have to go bust before the token becomes. So, you know, everybody, you know, people can say that, okay, they're printing money and all that. But anyway, just to back up a little bit. We are the capital markets sig. So obviously we are interested in all kinds of tokens, not just not just CBDC, because we are interested in creating a digital capital market, which means both the asset side which will be the tokens for these kind of things and the payment side. And this is what money and others have been working tirelessly to join these two aspects, meaning how do you create a token, have it in the marketplace, and then pay for it. You know, there's all kinds of problems with paying for it with private tokens because immediately you are, I mean, pay private payment tokens, because immediately you are, you have counterparty risk. So in order to go towards the safest alternative, which is a central bank digital currency would be the, you know, that would be the ultimate goal of a payment rail. So in that wider context, all of these efforts, including climate tokens are very essential parts of the puzzle for us. And to tell you the truth, many of these things of the properties have already been done in the TTF, for example, the from to date, the metadata manifest, you know, the IDs, we have to talk about them because I my conception is that they should be somehow linked to the legal entity and the identifier which is global setup for legal entities. So, you know, many, many of those issues have already been solved. So I have a feeling that once we start talking in earnest about all of these, and also the properties like retire versus burn, and how the e-tiler itself should be modeled the changes. You know, we'll talk about those. So in that context, you know, I would like to ask other people about what we should be doing in the next year or so. I mean, I welcome your input, of course. See, I mean, I don't even know how to pronounce your name. And various people say sigh or see. So, you know, I'm just going by my gut, but I would like to ask you how to pronounce that name. And then we go down the list and take input from other people, including money who has proposed something else. And people like Tom who had been in this business for a long time in the East and bringing up Gordon Chen. I mean, I'm in touch with him. He sent me his paper, maybe because you talked about this particular group, and we are in contact. And it's definitely the CBDC, one of the aims is for direct payment from the central bank to user accounts and the setting up of such accounts in central banks. I mean, that's a controversial topic, but it's going towards that. Plus, there's a great interest in climate change from, you know, the change in administration that is coming along. And that would kickstart things here in the US. Hopefully we'll rejoin the global community in terms of the Paris Agreement and so on. Anyway, so I think you should say what your aim should be for the next, you know, for this group. And obviously we want to work with you. We want to work with other groups. SIGs to promote and to work on real solutions. So please go ahead. I see. Sure. Okay, so yeah, first of all, my name is pronounced usually sigh but a good portion of the time see as well. And both are fine with me. So, in terms of what we're working on, yeah, the primary thing that we're going to be working on is making this net emissions network. And then building some applications on top of it. So for example, people can do virtual renewable energy by pulling together to buy into a community renewable energy project they could offset their transportation emissions together. I think I'm thinking about creating a distributor autonomous organization to go with these kinds of tokens so that people could make collective decisions together. So, I think where that could be beneficial is in terms of our linkages, then creating the interface and maybe even some of the applications that could then be used to make a real or a crypto currency, a stable coin that Manny's mentioned or something based on the E Thaler CBDC and maybe even the climate tokens could be linked to some kind of a currency in something. So those that's a little bit longer term off but I think because we're going to work with a lot of similar concepts and even some of your code base to start with that there will be good linkages between what we do and you do. Excuse me. So, one thing I, you know, coming back to your other point of the different currencies I think, you know, you're absolutely right there used to be a lot of regional currencies local bank currencies. Eventually they got consolidated into the central bank currencies. But I, I wonder if we're actually going back on that a little bit because just like the internet has really decentralized a lot of fields you know it's decentralized obviously the media and information fields. We could also have a decentralizing effect on currency so that 20 years from now instead of having most of us having all of our basically quote unquote money in the form of a central currency issued by the central bank of our country. We're not having a wallet that has some of our country central bank digital currency, but then some other countries currency, perhaps leftover from a trip or vacation or sent to us by a friend or family, and then a variety of currency like tokens, for example, that are entitled us to use an offset. Let's take trips on Uber or Lyft or, or flights or, you know, just a lot of different things instead of just converting everything back to one central currency and then re converting it into all these things that we use. So I think that's, that's something I've read about and it sounds not implausible and if that's the case then there could be a lot of applications of people wanting to issue currencies from various types of activities and redeeming them for other activities and, of which, I think your E-failer could be a very exciting sort of central piece of those. So that's, that's kind of a long term thing I've been thinking about. I mean, it's certainly happening today because you have loyalty points you have things which are local and in fact I'm a big proponent of local currency movement. In fact, I'm working with some people for doing for basically creating local currency for doing, you know, farming. You know, like community agriculture and then buying into a community program, which is very difficult now these days because you have to sell that and then you have to go and collect the produce every day. You're given so many baskets of produce. I don't know whether you're familiar with this sort of concept but with that, you know, once you have a tradeable currency then you don't have to buy something that, you know, like on the whole then you can say, okay, I'm going to invest in this currency and it's not being issued by one farmer by 20 farmers so you're not locked into one farmer and nor are the people locked into buying everything from that one farmer they can start. So this I've already started looking into for certain areas. So anyway, I mean, to not to belabor the point, I completely agree with that that there was going to be multiple local currencies and already there are, I mean, you know, if you think about your commercial bank deposits, they are nothing but sort of a local currency in a sense that the bank is holding your deposit, and you can only spend it in places where that bank network extends, unless you send a check, which then gets going goes through a whole series of operations in order to get converted to the to that bank liability being transferred to the other bank through again through central bank reserve accounts. I mean, so that's the key is, you know, all these things exist now, and as long as people can keep them going and it gets sort of honored by others then it's great. And I think it's an exciting time for for for all of this stuff. I mean definitely the decentralization is increasing. And I want to go through our member list with the participants who are there right now, and talk about, you know what their comments have been about things that are going on. And what are the things that went on this year and what's going to go on next year. I'll start with Alfonso. Hi, be pain. Thank you. I'm new to this group. Okay, I've been with you and the ID working group. And I'm here because I'm part of psi or see Chen group, and with Martin Wednesday. I'm a climate action and accounting. Okay, so I wouldn't be able to comment on this group. But what you both said you and psi about local currencies, which is something I've been into in the previous reincarnation. Local currencies that are not for community to graphical communities which that was the origin of local currencies, but communities of interest communities of values. And that's what side is opening up for the climate area. And that local currencies with the ether to me, it would be of interest, but I am a new be here. All right, Andrew. If you want to, you don't if you don't want to say anything that's fine, but please. Hi there. Thanks. I didn't find my mute button. Yeah, just I was recently part of our first citizens bank for a year and a half previously was part of the start of hyper ledger about four or five years ago when I was at Cisco. Taking a break, just jumping back in and seeing what's going on and really excited about all the new things going on here. And I have just kind of thinking about sort of non fungible assets and I've been on music licensing as a side project for a bit and it'd be interesting to sort of tokenize some of the royalty rights of music musicians and that sort of thing so the ethaler seems like interesting solution to that. And this whole push for the climate emissions is fantastic. I could definitely see some links with folks using sort of like the Tesla batteries for their houses and then reselling electricity back from the grid and you know each of them getting individual tokens, or you know communities of them getting a special tokenized incentives. So yeah that's my thoughts just throwing those out there and happy to be a part of the group. Thank you Bobby. Hi yeah I think it's fabulous that this ethaler project is getting traction in both of the different. Ziggs, I think that's amazing. I have since we started started to go to the labs to read about the ethaler project to learn more about it. I also think that the carbon emissions tokens are going to change the way you know the world operates and I hope that I can be a part of getting that out there and working in the future. Since you're going to go away, you probably can say a couple of words. Yes hi hi everyone. So, I mean, I guess this has been a very interesting year. There's been a lot of developments on on the ethaler so I'm glad to see that that's working and interesting for everyone. In regards to the capital market side. I've said this on a few occasions before. Given my background, I get lost sometimes on the technical stuff, but it's been good to trying to understand and learn from you guys, all of the presentations and the materials that have been prepared across the different, the different meetings. Thank you. Thanks for being the, you know, the vice chair, and I have to announce that Natalia told me that she's starting on a venture and, and hence we'll not have time to do to be the vice chair anymore so we'll have open elections for both chair and vice chair I don't know if people want to volunteer but already somebody has volunteered for the vice chair. So if there are more people then we'll have elections. Thank you. Then we go through Jagga. I'm just following you guys in this area of tokens and all these things are being located in India. We don't have any much exposure to these kind of areas. So I'm gaining knowledge through you guys. Thanks. Jagga is being modest. He coded a lot of the ITALA project, and he is one of the guys who contributed a lot to the project. So, you know, we have to thank him for the way in which especially the Java wallet and everything else and the interactions. And of course him and Mani did most of the coding with some input from me. So I have to be to recognize Jagga in this context. Kumara Vail. Mani's input is made all the coding. His input was quite valuable. Mani was the lead. Thanks again. So Kumara Vail, I guess it's having difficulty finding his mute button. In the meantime, Mani, could you opine on all this stuff? Before this is Tom is there. Maybe you can take input from Tom. Tom and Karen are the ones who are left. Yeah, I had a question actually for Sai. Can you share a little bit more about what the Climate Action SIG did in that collabathon and what was the output of it? Is there some, I know that there was the SIG led like a workshop or something or some sort of working group there. And what came out of that? The channel is, data is available as a link from our agenda and of course he can tell you more. Sure. There is a video and I'll post it as a link on your wiki page of what we talked about that basically we made a presentation about what the different groups at the climate SIG are working on. My little groups working on climate accounting, there's a group working on standards and there's a group working on consumer disclosure. And then we had an open forum with some of the interested people about exactly what we're doing. There was a lot of interest in business models and how to create products around what we're doing. So we had some initial discussions on that and a couple of developers contributed some help in terms of deploying the application and testing some of it and also working through the trust ID and security and identity and security for a network like ours. So there were some developer assistants that we got out of it. I think overall the whole collaboration has a lot of different topics, which many of which are pretty far from each other and so I'm hoping that over time, you know, things would tie together more as applications are built and available for people to have a point of reference. Thank you. Would you want to say something? Yeah, Vipin, you know me. I have a lot to say. But yeah, for people who don't know me, I was involved with Hyperledger a couple of years ago because I was working at IBM at the time, and then spent a couple of years at R3 working on Korda and was actually based in Asia, working on a number of areas in mostly around trade finance but also capital markets and tokenization digital assets, and then also did recently a stint with SDX which is the Swiss digital exchange in Europe. So, all of this, of course, is very interesting both the, from the carbon emissions which is an energy neutrality, which I think has been one of the interesting use cases for tokenization and there've been a number of projects over the past couple years around this. So it's good to see that size group is actually I think making more progress than other folks have. More importantly, perhaps in the capital market space. I can tell you that that there are there's some interesting approaches being taken towards dividing up investments to make markets more accessible for investors and not tokenizing things such as commercial loans for green projects, for example, so if I want to do funding for a new energy grid in, particularly in I think in Asia and developing countries but this might also be big in the EU, and we'll see about the US. For example, normally this was only accessible to investors who were coming in at very high levels, say $50 million or $100 million in terms of building out the loans or structuring the loans. But by creating tokenized versions of these loans you can suddenly drop that investment level to a million or less and then suddenly you make these markets much more accessible for much smaller investors and then also from the perspective of assembling investments and spreading my risk I can put together baskets of investments across all sorts of different, or I should say portfolios across all sorts of different investments that I've all been tokenized to various degrees. And that's the, and I know about this just again because I heard about this in regards specifically to green investing, because that kind of infrastructure tends to be expensive. This is a way to provide some more accessibility to those markets for investors and also from a bank's perspective, allows them by tokenizing those loans they can remove some of that from their books. So it kind of becomes a win win from both sides so that's why when you look at the tokenization of these assets and digitization of assets in general. I always have to go back to that question of okay, what makes what actually makes sense, because, you know, people are basically tokenizing everything these days, you know, I can tokenize my mother for example, seller on an open market but what actually makes sense to tokenize and what are the business conditions that warrant that so I think you're going to see a lot of attention being paid to that and then also the financial market infrastructures that will support this. There are different aspects to it that are different from traditional marketplaces in terms of custodianship in terms of settlement post trade settlement activities things like that. So, yeah, I mean this is where it could be interesting to see where the group can possibly take this. And of course CBDC is the big elephant in the room but I'll leave that for another day. Thank you, Tom. One is wanting to do talk about especially the post trade stuff and the lifecycle trade, which we are releasing a paper on CBDC soon, which will have those kind of things integrated into the into our thought process, and also the proposal that we are making on that particular topic. Yeah, again, thanks everyone it's it's quite exciting to know that, you know, whatever we have contributed with inputs from within and others in this group helped us build, or at least an initial prototype version of each other and I'm glad to see now that's being taken up for other and that's what gives us in even more interest in adding more to the open source contribution so as we've been pointed out, you know, we're working a lot of work on post trade infrastructure automation in the capital markets, which is, you know, it's a whole big area to actually bring blockchain about that's more on the commercial side of things. But you know from from a capital markets, SIG perspective, as we discussed, more collaboration on common token definitions beyond the TTF that will be of interest to us, because we are while we are developing things on the capital market side for other other types of tokens. There are other functions like token administrator transfer agents, these roles must be, you know, it's better that be standardized or codify this, you know, the functional behaviors of this. Again, help adopt these tokens much faster because it's one thing to just, you know, mint and burn and transfer tokens, but how do you really apply considering the fact that you have KYC and AML requirements. It will be very useful if we can come up with some sort of a specification for these, these roles regarding token administration and transfer agent. Separately, you know, we, we are exploring about confidential computing was another big hot topic. It ranges everything from is bilateral to multilateral settlements and index calculation today in capital market everything the data has to be all gathered from one central party who does then, you know, calculate the index and then redistribute back to all those. And in the process this the intermediary takes a big, you know, value out of it. But this can make it even more decentralized if we can come up with a confidential computing model whereby all the interested parties can contribute to a price or to an index and then system will come to the index and no one has to pay for it. So it will be an interesting open source project that just one, one aspect of it you can, we can talk about whole host of things and every industry where confidential computing can be used, but we will start somewhere. We are looking at the, you know, we're still looking at some kind of we need an open source underlying API is there are some from Google and Microsoft. Since is the very nascent industry at this point, we want to be able to pick up some some open source platform based on which we can build that and contribute back to hyper legend. That's my thoughts. Thank you, my beautiful. So we, you know, we basically welcome all input. That is the whole purpose of having the sick. And we also want to work across things. We started talking about that. I'll be giving a presentation on the public sector say on CBDCs, it'll be pretty going up from basic basics. What I know, I'll be able to share. And that's, you know, other comments by anybody else. You're welcome. You know, we welcome comments and we welcome collaboration. When is that presentation. Friday at 10am Eastern on the public sector thing. It is going to be called a rationale design choices and challenges of CBDCs, but it's going to be a pretty, you know, if you know about CBDCs already. It won't be that useful, but I try to go from first principles. Anything else before we close and, of course, we have to say thanksy as the animator of this whole, you know, retrospective, perspective. And also, we need good presentations. So if anybody has ideas about that or willing to present, then we will welcome that, especially in a thematic sort of way, maybe we should have quarterly themes or something where we can direct the energy of the group into these important questions. That's my thought and all, you know, please go ahead and make any closing remarks because we are 1057. I guess we have exhausted the topics with today. Thanks for attending. And we will get together two weeks from now. Maybe because as we come closer to the holidays, we will probably postpone these meetings, or at least cancel the meetings this month and start again with a fresh thought process and everything next year. Thank you. Thank you. Happy new year. Happy new year if we don't see each other. Yeah, happy new year. Let's have a good one.