 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Okay, we're back. We're live on Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech Hawaii on a given Monday. Martin Luther King Day, as it were. And we're talking about community matters. And we have a community activist to discuss Martin Luther King Day today. And that's Marcia Joyner, who was also a host on Think Tech Hawaii. Not one, but two shows. And now she joins us for a really special week. She joins us by VoIP phone from remote, and we want to talk to her about Martin Luther King Day. Welcome to the show. Well, Aloha, and thank you so much for being interested in Martin Luther King Day. Of course, this is a big part of American history. Now, I want to qualify you for a minute. You're a community activist, and you started out as a community activist pretty early in the game in the 60s. Can you tell us your background in that regard? Well, I was born into Jim Crow and came of age, rather, in the Civil Rights Movement. I was the first black girl to go to integrated schools in Baltimore. In fact, Brown v. Board of Education was May of 1954, and I entered school in August of 1954. So it was immediately. And you know me well enough to know in all the audiences, I love to talk. So I spent all of my time in school with all of these white girls. No one spoke to me. No one mistreated me. No one shared their notes. No one sat next to me at lunch. I went through all that with not a word. So what did you take away from all that, Marcia? You get angry with that. Are you angry? No. No. Let me tell you the story. You'll love this little story. So in May, when the decision was handed down, and I'm watching television like everybody else does, and all of these women across the country were screaming and yelling, we're not going to send our children to school with these colored children. And in Baltimore, with this very beautiful, lovely lady, Mrs. Coughlin, dressed in a lovely pink suit and beautiful white hair. And she, in Baltimore, the schools were not only segregated by race, but they were segregated by gender. So in a higher class, the more so. Anyway, she says, I will never see a colored girl graduate from my school. Wow. Wow. How do you like that? August five of us showed up at her school. Okay. Now, she was very nice the whole time we were there. Never a hint of trouble. Never. Ever. However, one week, one week before graduation, Mrs. Coughlin turned her face to the wall and died. She never saw a colored girl graduate from her school. Now, I took it as a personal affront, and it's only been 60 years, and I'll get over it, but not today. Not today, no. Not today. So let's talk about Martin Luther King and Martin Luther King Day. What is his significance in the historical landscape of the country? I mean, he came at a time when people were wrestling with this issue, with racism, trying to find equality, and he surfaced as a great leader. So in my view, and I'm not as close to it as you are, but in my view, I believe that he was one of the great leaders of our nation. And he emerged while you were becoming aware. Yes. Oh, yeah. Now, yes. And I did all the sit-ins and the demonstrations and everything I learned. I learned in the basement of the church because all the Protestant churches gave us the basement of the church. And you know, in the mainland, everybody has a basement because that's where the furnace and everything is. So the churches' works happened in the basement. The typewriters, the telephone, the mimeograph machines, and so everything I learned, I learned how to do what we do in demonstrations and picketing and organizing, and press releases, the whole thing. Those were the women's jobs during the civil rights movement. The men were on the picket line. That's why when you look at pictures, you see very few women. But we were part of it. There'd make no mistake about it. And he was a hero. And in every major city across America, there were heroes, not as eloquent as he, but every bit as forceful and determined and beautiful. Well, that raises an interesting point, Marcia. I mean, there were heroes in a lot of cities. And there was a time when the civil rights movement was coming of age. And it wasn't only Martin Luther King and other ministers around the country. It was people who were not necessarily black who were raising the flag on this. So what was it with Martin Luther King? In Montgomery, with the boycott, the bus boycott, what is not talked about are because most of the people that boycotted the bus were working in the white people's houses. And it was those wives that came together and told the business people of Montgomery, you have got to stop this now. The owner of the bus was a owner. She said to her husband, this has got to stop. We have got to have our people back. They walked the picket line. These white women were out there. It's not talked about. But they were part of it. It was an economic thing. They felt the economic part of it. And they wanted it stopped. This has got, this has got the cease and desist. I know we don't talk about it, but that was, they were as much a part of this as any black person. Well, I'll tell you a short story. When I was stationed in the Coast Guard first in Hawaii, they transferred me back to New York, which was my original home. And when I got back there, I was looking for my boss, who was a commander and a lawyer in the Coast Guard, a very good lawyer. And he was not there. Nobody could explain what happened to him. He had gone on vacation and hadn't returned. This is pretty serious for a senior officer not to return. Where was he? He was in jail in the South. He had been on a freedom ride and he got arrested. And they put him in jail. He could only come back and resume his duties after he got out of jail. He was white, by the way. So, I mean, it was really extraordinary what was happening. I mean, we had a national movement going on. And, you know, there was a lot of people. A lot of people were joining that movement at that time. And certainly Martin Luther King was the leader of that movement then. Why did he, you know, surface as the leader? Why did he, the one person who everybody rallied around, what was it about him? His eloquence, the way he said what needed to be said in a way that people understood it. That the tone of his voice, the eloquence with which he moved. And let's go back to Montgomery and the bus boycott. When he moved to Montgomery, he was the new preacher in town. And he was elected to head the Montgomery bus boycott. And you know the reason why he was elected. Ah, yes, he's a great orator. Make no mistake, I don't want to belittle that. But he was new in town. He did not have a mortgage. He did not have a car payment. He did not have anything in the bank. And that was the way the city fathers controlled people with through finances. They could not control him. They couldn't fire him. They couldn't call in the mortgage or the car payment. So he was the one person, the new preacher in town, that was elected. And that, his experience in Alabama, you know, made him a national figure. He originally came from Atlanta, didn't he? Yeah, he came from Georgia. But even, yeah, and again, we go back a little further, he was on a trip to Europe with his family as a young man. His name was originally Michael and his father's minister. And they learned about Martin Luther, the one man that stood up to the Catholic church. You know, remember the notice on the door of the church? They were so impressed with him taking a stand against the power, because the Catholic church was the power that they changed their names to Martin Luther, from Michael to Martin Luther. And it was that willingness to take a stand, what he studied Gandhi, that willingness to take a stand, because most of us won't take a stand because we're scared. Leadership is a matter of taking stands. Leadership is clearly, you know, taking positions and sticking with them. And if you've seen that movie about Churchill, The Darkest Hour, it might still be planned. That is a very good example of leadership, where he took an unpopular position, everybody was fighting with him about it, but he knew he was right and he stuck with it. And what we need is more of that today, Martha, Marcia. See, I can take a stand because you won't fire me. So let's talk about today, let's talk about today here in Honolulu. There's a parade that started at 9 o'clock here downtown. What is the parade about? Who's involved? Okay. As far as I know, there were a hundred units in the parade and this parade is, unlike any other parade, is a first amendment parade. We operate under a court order. And the court says that the city and county has to allow us this parade, police protection to use of the street and the parks. I don't want a park for the staging area and Kapilani Park for the Unity Rally after. And that is because every unit in the parade is allowed to take a stand. The only thing that's not allowed is hate language. So everybody that's in the parade has an issue about something. You know, stop the war, whatever. They've all got issues, which makes it really interesting, colorful, because all of these people come together at this one time. And that is magic. It is magic. American tradition. The Rosa Parks bus, the city and county lets us have a city bus that is dedicated to the Martin Luther King parade and Rosa Parks. Big sign on the side says Rosa Parks. And then the city, also, we have the rubbish truck. And the UPW, oh, you can't believe that a rubbish truck would glean, but they have such pride in it to be in the parade. And that says Memphis we remember. Sure. Why don't you tell our listeners about Memphis? What happened in Memphis? Memphis, Martin Luther King went to Memphis to be with the garbage workers who were on strike. And they were terribly treated. It's almost inhumane to think that people were treated like they were, especially, that's because most people don't see that collecting rubbish is as important. But when it's not picked up, you know you get all kind of viruses and rats and stuff. But that they are important to our health and well-being. And so he was there to help with that strike. And somebody somewhere upset the strike the day before. And so it went really crazy. So the night before the day that he was planned to go on strike, to walk with the garbage workers, that's what we wanted. If you look at pictures of Martin Luther King in a march, in crowds, you will see all of the men on the front row have on the same suit. And they have the same flower or whatever on the suit. And then, you know, all white folks think we all look like anyway. So here's this front row. If you are a assassin, you can't pick him out of the front row. So that was the whole idea. That was their camouflage that we all look like. So now the idea is that in order to assassinate him, you have to take him out of the crowd. Well, and so the night before he is staying at the Lorraine Hotel, and there was a young man, and I'll have to look up his name for you. And he was singing gospel songs. He's down on the ground. And Lorraine Motel, I think this was the second to look. Martin Luther King comes out on the balcony and talks to him and says, sing my favorite song. And he begins to sing precious Lord, when the shots are fired from behind him. And that's how they picked him out of the crowd and then shot him. Now, I am sure. I can't find it anywhere, but I'm sure that that gospel singer must have gone to his grave feeling guilty. Can you imagine the horrors? But you've heard the speech that he gave the night before. I have been to the mountaintop. Everyone's heard that. Everyone's heard that. Now, in the speech, anybody that's interested scrolled out 23 minutes into the speech. Martin Luther King never said anything short. So 23 minutes into the speech, he begins to say, what we have, what we bring to the table is economic power. And you have got to look at your economic power. You have got to put support such and such a bank. Then he begins to say, you have to stop buying wonderbread. You have to stop buying Coca-Cola. And he went down the list of all of those big corporations that you have got to take your money out of. And the next day, he's dead. See, so I'm sure that they killed it. Well, let's take a short break. I want to come back and I want to tell you about some of the articles about racism that are here in New York Times this very day and get your reaction to that. And we'll discuss more about Martin Luther King Day right after this break. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I just walked by and I said, what's happening, guys? They told me they were making music. We, Lucas, host of Hawaii is My Main Land here on Think Tech Hawaii Fridays at 3 p.m. Oyan Standard Time. We explore environmental issues, political issues, keeping it local any way we can. Aloha. Okay, we're back. We're live with the Marsha Joyner, the activist. We're talking about Martin Luther King Day. And in fact, the title of our show is Martin Luther King Day Comes at Exactly the Right Time. One of the reasons I say that is I'm looking at the New York Times today online in the top stories. And a good number of them are about racism. And I'll just take off the headlines for you if you haven't heard. I'm not a racist, Trump says, as DACA hopes, dim. He says he's not a racist. Okay, another one, experts fear that the president's remarks have set back American interests in Africa. Another one, in Trump's remarks, black churches see a nation backsliding. Another one. Can I comment on that? Yeah, sure. Despite Trump's own insistence that he's the least racist person that you've ever met. That's what he said. They voted. Yeah, that's what he said. But those devoted racists like Duke, whatever his name was, are thrilled that the Donald has sparked an insurgency and open racism. See, that's the trick. It's not... Yeah, okay, so he said one or two words, but he has allowed that to... I'm sure there's a better word than insurgency. But we see it, we hear it from people that we never thought we'd hear it from. Again, I thought this was over, and it's again, and I hear it, even here in Hawaii. Yeah, I've heard it, too. I've heard it, too. It's too bad that in the 60s, you and I both grew up in the 60s. We had maybe Martin Luther King's vision of a better time coming forward, a more greater equality in the country. But to use the term that we're using, that headline, backsliding. We've been backsliding, and a lot of it has been in the last year or two with Trump. Let me go on and tell you some more. Trump's racism. This is my personal favorite. The definitive list. This is where... I don't know who the journalists were, but the New York Times journalists went through and made a list of all the things that he'd said that proved he was a racist. The definitive list is a long list. Okay, here's another one. Charles Blow, a column. Trump is a racist, period. Same point. George Yancey. Will America choose King's Dream or Trump's Nightmare? Oh, I like that. Yeah. There are more. Interesting question is whether... I guess that's all I can find right now, but whether Trump is making war on the press or whether he's in a war with the press. I know it's a fine point, but I believe that he's making war on the press and I believe that he knows very well he's responsible for some of this racism, if not a lot of it in his term. And what we have is a backsliding. We have more tension now than we did when he started. What kind of an achievement is that? So let's go to, you know, how does the black community feel about this? How do you feel about this? What's the condition of the country on this issue? I am encouraged by the ones that you read about what I hear and see with people, not just black people or Hispanics or Hawaiians who stand up and speak up and say, you know, this is wrong. I don't like this. I don't like the way it feels. I'm encouraged because I think, I haven't seen this kind of organizing, this kind of energy since the 60s and the 70s. People are organized. People are willing to take a stand. And that's good. That feels real good that they are, like Martin Luther King said, a time comes when silence is betrayal and people are speaking up, people. When did you see the most prominent newspaper with headlines like that? Well, you know, what it tells me, though, is that it's not just the black community that's irritated and annoyed by what's happened here on the Trump. It's a lot of people. In fact, it's, well, I think it's most people in the country are irritated by it. How do you like that? And so, you know, we have a problem that's created, maybe it's in Trump's base, if you will, where the problem is enhanced lately. But I think there's a lot of people who would like to see the problem corrected, Mark. I really agree that that is it. And that's why I am saying that the one thing we have, and it doesn't matter what color you are, what gender, is the vote. And if we are going to stand up to the vitriol that he is spewing, and one of the things that Mark Luther King said, that we will rue the day when people of good people say nothing about what this is going on. When we say nothing, that is a problem. People that think they are good and don't say anything. We've got to say something. I totally agree. And I think it's important to have a kind of first amendment experience about this because if you don't do anything and if everybody's quiet about it and it continues to happen, ultimately you lead into much greater contention. You lead into street scenes, riots, what have you. All kinds of breakdown of civil society. And we can't afford that. We have too much to do in this country to be distracted by that. One of the reasons I like what you're saying, I think it's important, many reasons, is that it will avoid further contention. It will avoid further polarization with two racial bubbles. I hate that. The vote is more important than you think. It's important in many ways. And my hero, I know we're running out of time, but my hero is Fannie Lou Hamer. Now I know you've got a whole, everybody just went blank, Fannie Lou Hamer. Who is Fannie Lou Hamer? She was the strongest woman that was ever. She was on a slave plantation in Rule County, Mississippi, Ruleville, Mississippi. And all she wanted to do was register to vote. And she had heard one of Martin Luther King's speeches and she knew she wanted to register to vote. And I'm going to get this past. She came near death trying to register to vote. And she led a movement. The book is titled This Little Light of Mine and Everybody That's Interested. And so August of 1964, a Democratic convention in Atlantic City. And she led the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Movement. And it was made of black people and white people and men and women and whatnot. They all went to, well, they get to the convention, of course, and it's all white and mainly men. And she says that they are legally together and they want to be seated. Well, President Johnson interfered. It was a mess. It was a grand mess. And it's really worth reading about. But anyway... This Little Light of Mine, what was it? This Little Light of Mine is the name of the book. And anyway, she says, you know, they let her speak. And because of her and all of the things that happened, the Democratic Party changed forever. And in fact, this year, it'll be 50 years. Well, we need some real political juice going forward. And it seems to me that the voting rate here in Hawaii in general is less than 40%. That's an embarrassment. And people care about these issues and care about, you know, making a responsible government. And if they don't agree with Trump all the more reason, they've got to get out and vote. They've got to express themselves. It's the most... Talk about the First Amendment. You know, this is the center of citizen expression. And the same thing with the black community. Their voting percentage was not that high in 2016. And I think things would have been different in the presidential race had they gotten out to vote. More of them. So what, you know, what can happen? What do you want to see? And what is your advice to everyone about this? Come November. Well, you know, there's a primary. We all have to... We are fortunate in Hawaii in that, you know, we only have four candidates for the... two for the House and two for the Senate. Well, only two in the House are running. But last year we had 51 House candidates. 30 of them ran unopposed. You know, but there's nothing to vote for. You know, that's the problem. Well, this comes back to Martin Luther King as a leader. You know, if there are clear leaders, and whatever their persuasion, if there are clear leaders, then people tend to rally around and vote for those leaders. That's the way democracy works. That's the way the reality is. And so, you know, what will happen between now and then, Marcia, who is going to be the clear leader on whatever side of the fence you like, opposed to Trump, I suppose? But we need to look at turnout because if you're not happy with our legislature, every one of them got those seats because of low turnout. So we need to make sure that we turn out because if they see there's no consequence for not doing what we want, they'll continue to not do what we want. Okay, what about the national elections now? Speak to the national elections. It's the same thing. It has to be turnout. We saw what happened in Alabama when there was turnout. Right. And that's what we have to do. We have to be sure that we turn out. We have to be sure that we are registered. Last year, two years ago, we did a national voter registration day. We had 8,000 new people registered. They didn't turn out to vote. Yeah, that's a disappointment. That's a disappointment. You go to all the trouble. And, you know, as we discussed offline, some of these voter registration drives have been very risky business resulted in killings in the past. And so when somebody approaches you and suggests you should register, that's a really serious thing. And if you do register, that's a really serious thing. And if you've gone through all of that, you really need to get out and vote. You want to protect your way of life, your family, your community, the society you have to vote. Yeah. It's amazing. But there's nothing to vote for. So we have to make sure there's something to vote for. Yeah, well, I think it's clear enough that we want to vote against racism or anybody who is racist. Yeah. And that's the message of Martin Luther King Day. Marcia Joyner, an activist community activist, also a host on Think Tech, has joined us for a discussion of Martin Luther King Day, which comes today, this time, at the perfect time. Thank you so much, Marcia, for joining us. Thank you. So see you later this week for your shows. Thank you. Aloha. Thank you.