 If you want to get good at anything, you need to put in the repetitions. I believe mental toughness is the ability to stay in the present moment, no matter how chaotic the atmosphere or the environment is. It's the ability to be present. You know, effort is a choice, attitude is a choice, and discipline is absolutely a choice. This is one of my favorite topics ever, personal discipline. And the reason I love this topic so much is because I was reading something that you wrote earlier, anyone can apply it to their own life. What do you think personal discipline is? Let's start with the biggest mistake I think people make around personal discipline. Perfect. They believe it's something you either have or you don't. They believe it's something that's been genetically encoded like eye color or height. And I hear comments all the time, you know, I wish I could do that, Michael. I'm just not personally disciplined. And I just remind them that that's a story they've been telling themselves that they're not disciplined. Now, they may have really good evidence, plenty of examples of when they've made undisciplined decisions and that they think that that story is true, but they can change that with the very next decision that they have to make. And every single decision we have to make from what we're going to eat for breakfast to who we're going to follow on Instagram to how we're going to talk to our children, there's always a choice to make the more disciplined decision. And I just want folks to feel like they have the power to make that choice. And once you start doing that consistently, then you start rewriting the narrative and you start telling yourself the story that I am a disciplined person, which is the story I tell myself every single day. What I like about this is it's parallel though, and maybe some people, this might hit a nerve, it's parallel with personal accountability. Yes. Right. And I think that that's the difficulty is like if you, if you admit to yourself that personal discipline is a choice you make, then you also have to admit that personal accountability is a mindset you have to be in. Yes. Well, there's always two sides to the coin. You know, most people will acknowledge that working hard is a choice. When they choose to give a good effort in any endeavor in their life, they'll say they chose to work hard. But if working hard is a choice by default, not working hard, well, that's also a choice. But most people don't hold themselves accountable to that side of the coin. They deflect by blaming or complaining or making an excuse. But, you know, effort is a choice. Attitude is a choice. And discipline is absolutely a choice. And I'm a big fan of giving ourselves some grace and some space when we fall short. You know, if you tend to make, let's say later today, you make a less than disciplined decision with what you're going to eat. Well, we have to quickly move to the next play. You can't do anything about the decision you just made. So there's no reason in stacking shame and guilt on top of that and being very self-critical and weighing yourself down. Just say I didn't make the most disciplined decision with that meal, but I'm going to get another crack at this the next time I eat or the next opportunity I have to work out or whatever. So look forward to the next chance you have and then take advantage of making that more disciplined decision. You deal with a lot of successful people. You're around a lot of successful people. What are some common denominators that you see throughout? The number one is something I learned from Kobe Bryant back in 2007. And that is the best never get bored with the basics. That if you want to be good in any area of your life, whether it's as a parent, whether it's as a podcast host, whether it's as an entrepreneur, you work towards mastery of the basics and the fundamentals during the unseen hours. And you make a commitment to building that foundation because the fundamentals are the foundation to which the rest of the house is built in any area of your life. Whether it's a personal relationship, whether it's building a company, whether it's a social post that you make, you always have to go back to the fundamentals and the highest performers have appreciation and respect and they value the fundamentals. They never leave them. Now, it doesn't mean that they don't also graduate to more advanced techniques and it doesn't mean they don't take risks and try other things, but it means they never leave that foundation of the basics. And the best exercise someone can do is figure out what area of your life do you want to level up? Do you want to level up your performance as a sales professional? Do you want to level up your personal relationship? And then ask yourself, what are the handful of basics that go into being really good at that thing? And then those are the things you have to do every single day and it's not sexy and it can get monotonous and it can get mundane, but the best never leave the basics and have a commitment to them. When you, so obviously we're going to talk a lot about high performance here, but when you're talking about, like just say, the average person that just wants to take care of the basics in their life, when you think of the basics, like what are your basics? Well, one of the most important basics in any type of relationship, whether it's a relationship I have in a personal relationship, whether it's with my children, whether it's with business colleagues, is the ability to listen, something you two do very, very well. The ability to actively listen, make somebody else feel heard, make somebody else feel valued, make someone else feel appreciated, but also making sure that you are taking in the correct information. See, we usually, when someone's speaking, we're quick to formulate an opinion or we make an assumption or we rush to a conclusion or make a judgment and we're not really listening to what they're saying. So if you want to improve every single relationship in your life immediately, become a better active listener. And I say that with a smile because I know that's much easier said than done and most of the things I share are very basic and principle, but very hard to actually do. But listening is one of the things that I've really tried to improve over the last decade of my life because admittedly, 10 years ago, I was a very poor listener. I was too busy ready to tell someone something that made me look smart or made me feel like I was adding to the conversation and it wasn't really taking in what they were saying. But as soon as I made the commitment to be disciplined enough to actively listen, it's helped every relationship in my life. And that's one that I think is pretty ubiquitous and can be applied really across the board personally or professionally. Yeah, I think for sure, I still fall into the trap where I mean, I know, I don't think there's anyone that's the most perfect listener. I think everybody can always improve at listening. This show has been a constant practice in getting better at listening because I always say, you and I, we can all go to dinner. And we can just, you know, you have the dinner conversation, but you're kind of in and out and you're passive, the waiter's coming and you can turn and you're tense. When you're doing something like this, it's such an active form of listening because I'm meeting you for the first time and I have to really digest what you say. So it's been extremely helpful in my personal life outside of this show because I have to practice it every single week. Yeah, and this show forces you to do it. Now, if we were to go out to dinner, obviously we wouldn't have the mics or the headphones at dinner. That'd be a bit awkward. Yeah, we do. We bring them in our bag. But there could still be some, I'm a big systems and processes guy and there are certain systems that you can put in place, even at a dinner, to increase the likelihood that you'll be actively present. One is put your devices away. Put your phones away when you're having dinner with someone. Two, you know, don't keep glancing up at the game that's being played at the bar because every time you put your attention on the game that's on the TV, you're now no longer present with the people that you're sitting in front of. That's giving Glenn from the wedding singer. Go ahead. He's like the worst listener. Lord, but you said example the other day and like half the people didn't know we were talking about. No, you know Glenn from the wedding singer, right? Of course. Okay, okay, go on. Julia Guglia. Why is that funny? Yeah, that guy, he's the epitome of borderline narcissist that chose not to listen really to anybody because he thought he was more important than everyone else. But the reason listening is so important is because it plants an unconscious message with the person that you're talking to and that unconscious message is, you are important to me. I value you. I appreciate and respect what you have to say. And that type of unconscious message is the glue that strengthens all human relationships. So if you want people to buy in and believe in, then you have to show them they're valuable and we show them they're valuable by giving them our full attention, which is the number one currency we have to give as human beings is our attention in the present moment. And when there are so many things vying for our attention all of the time, most of which are the devices we tend to be tethered to, putting that down and actually making eye contact and being fully present is a massive connection tool. There was three. We've interrupted you. There was three. So don't look at the game you said was number two. What was the third one? Well, and this is a tool that I actually had to use when I was trying to become a better listener. And at first it feels very clunky, it feels very robotic, it feels scripted, but it's called a list back. And a list back is when you're not saying this example when you're done saying something, Michael, I'm going to list back in your words what it is that you just said to confirm that I heard you correctly. And this will do two things. One, this will actually, you know, make sure that I have the correct information. But two, it is telling you that I've been listening. So Michael, if I'm hearing you correctly, you said, and then you can list it back. And you don't do it every single time. That would be awkward if we were sitting at dinner and every time you said something, I listed it back. But in certain circumstances when it's appropriate, when there's a break in the conversation, you list back. And when you use their exact terminology. So if I'm hearing you correctly, Lauren, you think that the gentleman from the wedding singer is not a very good listener. And that way you're feeling, okay, Alan heard what I said. He's valuing what it is that I'm saying. I'm going to say some more. I have a hot step too. And you do a really good job at this already within meeting you. There is nothing worse when you are with two men at a table as a woman. And the man that's talking only looks at the other man. I tell my dad this too. Like when my dad is with his wife or another woman and he's just looking at the other man, I'm like, you have to involve everyone at the table. I think that sometimes men tend to just talk to other men and they don't look at the woman. Little do they know the woman's probably making the whole decision and puppeteering the whole entire thing. So they should probably change their strategy. Or we've been trained. You look at your woman, you don't do it. No, but when two men are speaking and there's a woman at the table, it's important to look at everyone. Well, I don't think people do that just with a man and a woman dynamic. I also think sometimes people do that if they perceive someone at the table to be more important than another person. And I think that's a mistake. So for example, if I go to dinner and I'm with somebody, I'm doing a business deal and his wife is there, but I'm doing with him, I'm just putting all the attention on him because I perceive him in my world to be more important. That's a mistake because they're going to get in the car after and she's going to say, what a fucking asshole that guy was. And I think it's just rounding out the attention and making sure you're acknowledging everybody and making people feel seen and heard. Yes, and feel safe and included. But see, you two are very, very insightful and you're very perceptive and you're able to observe that. See, these little nuances tell us a lot more about someone than even the things that they're saying. I mean, another example, if we are out to dinner and we're trying to close a business deal and you're giving me your best, you're really trying to pitch me and sell me hard. But then you're condescending or patronizing or rude to the waiter. That tells me what type of character you have. Now, with that said, I give everyone the grace to have a bad moment. People make mistakes. This is not about perfection. But if I start to notice a trend that you're only nice to me because I have something of value for you and you are not nice to someone that you perceive is not having value to you, that's a huge red flag. I wouldn't want to enter into a business agreement with someone that has that type of character because down the line, there's going to be a problem. So we have to be very observant in our listening. And part of our listening is what it is that we observe. And I used to say this all the time when I was in the basketball world with players, when a coach was speaking, you listen with your eyes. You hear with your ears, but you listen with your eyes. When someone is speaking, you give them the respect of making the eye contact that we're all making with each other right now because that's telling the other person, I am fully present. If you're looking down at your phone or you're twiddling your hair, you're looking down at your shoe, you may be hearing what I'm saying, but I don't know that you are. If we're making this type of intense eye contact, we're listening to each other. Yeah, I think a lot of people beat up younger generations because they say a lot of them struggle in the dating world now, but I think we all came up without this. I didn't have this phone until I was basically out of college. So I had basically half my life navigating relationships without this thing. I could imagine that if I grew up with this thing in my face constantly, and it was the thing I've picked up when I either felt uncomfortable or insecure or felt like I did everything to say and you're looking down at this, I imagine that would be detrimental in building relationships because you're constantly doing what you're talking about, which is taking your attention off the person and putting it into this digital platform or this phone. And I don't think that's an age thing. I think that spans every generation now, but for younger people that have had this their entire life, it's like you have to actively really work to break free of it and have a human-to-human interaction. Yes, and I know you guys can appreciate this with young children. See, I actually believe now is the hardest time to be a child. I really believe that. I've got three young kids and I think now is the hardest time to be a child for that very reason. And when anyone says something disparaging about the generation after them, they're entitled as one we hear all the time. And my retort to that is, yeah, well, who entitled them? It was our generation. It's the adults that are allowed. You know, if my children grow up without having the ability to have interpersonal relationships because they can only communicate with a device, that is the failure of me as their father. That has nothing to do with Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk or anyone else or whoever made the technology. That's me not putting the boundaries up to make sure that they're able to develop these type of relationships. You know, in any area of life, I firmly believe you get what you accept. If I'm going to accept that my children don't make eye contact, can't shake your hand and can only stare at their phone, then that's what they're going to do. And it is our job as parents and as adults and as influencers to make sure that's not the case. So I don't ever believe in disparaging the younger generation. I believe we lead them to a higher level. But again, that's because personal accountability. What you accept, I love that. You get what you accept. What, like, how did you even get into coaching athletes like LeBron, Kevin Durant, Colby Bryant? I mean, is this something that you wanted to do when you were young? How does one, did you fall into this? How did this happen? So basketball was my first love and I fell in love at five years old when my parents signed me up for my first recreation basketball experience and fell in love immediately. And I am so thankful that here, 40-plus years later, basketball is still a major pillar of my life and I've been able to make a living and build an extraordinary life around something that I've been passionate about since a child. And the first third of my life was a very dedicated basketball player. Was able to play at a very small school in North Carolina, Elon University. But then it was clear to me that when I graduated from Elon that the MBA wasn't calling. So I knew I had to make a pivot so I decided to become a basketball performance coach. While I was in high school and college I started to find an equal love for strength and conditioning and fitness and nutrition and mindset. So I figured what could be better than my first job out of college combining my original love of basketball with this newfound love of performance, training, strength and conditioning. So that was the avenue I went. And I was born and raised in a suburb of Washington DC which is where I still reside in a small city in Maryland just north of DC that has really, really, really good high school basketball. Now we had two of the preeminent high school programs in the country and I had a chance to serve as the performance coach for both of those. Kevin Durant's the most famous alum that we had at one school. Victor Oladipo and Markel Foltz and a dozen other players came from the other school. So working at those two schools got the attention of Nike and Jordan Brand and USA Basketball. So I was able to earn some opportunities to work events which is how I met Kobe and LeBron and Stephen Curry and a whole list of players. And yeah, I'm so thankful that as a rather mediocre basketball player I was still able to use the sport I love to afford me these opportunities to travel, to meet people, to have these experiences and I'm a very observant person. So I try to go into any situation with big eyes, big ears and a small mouth so that I can be taking in what it is that I'm learning and yeah, I mean I just learned so many lessons from these players and coaches and then in 2017 I decided to leave the basketball training space to do what I do presently which is corporate keynote speaking and writing. But most of what I share is through the lens of a basketball performance coach that learned these things through the sport and yeah, it's been an amazing journey so far. When these players are coming to you what are they asking you for and what takeaways are you giving to them? So the big two things I was responsible for one was their physical athleticism so I was trying to bulletproof their body against injury make their ankles, knees, hips, shoulders stronger and more durable make them more explosive get them to a very high conditioning level so that they weren't tired in the fourth quarter then the other half was to help them from the mental side which is what's so applicable to the conversation we're having and what goes on in business is the ability to be mentally tough which is things like discipline the ability to be in the present moment the ability to move to the next play to control the controllables to focus on the process so it was kind of that perfect storm of those two things and yeah and every single one of those things has massive transfer into our own lives so I can say with a huge smile I'm a better father because of lessons I've learned from Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant I'm a better speaker because of lessons I've learned and you can list the players so I think anytime we learn something new because I understand a vast majority of your listenership might not love basketball as much as I do but I hope they're still willing to listen to the lessons and then figure out how to apply those to the areas of life that are most important to them if you were to dumb it down to a couple of those lessons what are they one of the biggest ones is learning how to blend confidence with humility so you need to earn the right to be confident by putting in work during the unseen hours so a guy like Stefan Curry is incredibly confident on the court because he has put in so many hours and made so many shots in empty gyms when no one is watching so you have to earn the right to be confident but you have to blend that with humility which is what leaves you open to coaching it leaves you open to feedback it leaves you open to saying no matter how good I am I can still get better and that's what's most important and but you have to have that blend see if you have all confidence and no humility you're borderline narcissistic you're arrogant you're not easy to play with and people don't enjoy being around you if you have no confidence and all you have is humility then you're a bit of a pushover you're a bit weak especially on the court so we want to we want to marry those two things together Lauren what was that book about strength and warmth it's like almost and I can't remember the same concept basically like strength and warmth is like you want to be someone with both right like you want to you want to be somebody that when I come to you I say okay I believe you have the strength to basically execute on whatever you're executing on but I also believe you're not doing it just for yourself there's altruistic reasons that you're also doing it right I love that and I think that sometimes people struggle with value not to harp on Connie I think because that went forever but that's somebody that started to come off as just overconfident and self-serving right in a lot of ways yes and so that's and people kind of turned on him quick and regardless of the behaviors like I think that was less relevant to like the feeling it gave everybody where it was like hey this is not about anybody but you anymore yes right and it's a constant balancing act I'm not implying that it's always going to be 50-50 there are times in your life when it serves you best to be 90% confident 10% humble you know and then there's other times where you need to be able to flip that I often view that even in a relationship like you all have we hear this all the time that a relationship should be 50-50 and and I don't think that it's 50-50 very often there may be times where you show up and you're only bringing 10% to the party she's going to need to step up and bring 90% to make sure that this thing works and then the other times when she was given birth if I said hey this is 50-50 I probably got my head torn off yeah that was probably 99.5 to 0.5 yes but then there'll be other times where that's going to be in reverse so what's most important is both people aren't worried about scorekeeping they're worried about bringing what they need to bring to the relationship to make sure that it works and same thing with confidence and humility with mental toughness what are things that we can do on a day-to-day basis to improve that sort of muscle so mental toughness is an interesting one because everybody defines it differently and I know there's there's certain school of thoughts that they equate mental toughness to the ability to tolerate physical discomfort that if you can put on a 50-pound weight vest and go out and jog around the streets of Austin for 10 miles when it's 100 degrees out that that means you're mentally tough and that's not really the definition I prescribe to I believe mental toughness is the ability to stay in the present moment no matter how chaotic the atmosphere or the environment is it's the ability to be present so by that definition the the short definition of that is something I heard I heard Nick Saban say this and I heard Oprah say this and I figured if those two people are saying it it's got to be true and that is the the phrasing of be where your feet are which means no matter where you are be where your feet are make sure your head and your heart are in alignment with where your physical body is at any given point and that is really hard to do in the midst of adversity in the midst of chaos it's really challenging so give an example of what most people or just some people do when they're not where their feet are like what was that what does that look like in practicality two things one they get distracted by the past they're still living in the past they keep thinking about what happened five minutes ago five days ago or five years ago and those things are unchangeable now we can change our relationship with what's happened in the past but we cannot change the facts of the past and I think people allow that to anchor them down then people also get anxious about the future they're worried about something that may or may not even happen you're worried about what's going to happen five minutes five days or five weeks from now so I do believe that we need to learn from the past and I do believe we need to prepare for the future I don't believe we need to live in either one of those spaces that most of the time our faculties are best served in the present moment with what's right in front of us and there are three components because I know you guys like takeaways one is learning how to focus on what we call is the next play don't worry about what just happened focus on what's happening right now in front of you you know in basketball this is really obvious you know Lauren you just missed the layup it's all right next play Michael you just turned the ball over it's all right next play if either one of you has bad body language and pouts and gets in your feelings because you're upset that you missed the layup or you're upset that you turned the ball over that means you are not present to give 100% and in basketball that means you're probably jogging back on defense which means the person you're supposed to guard just scored two points on the other end so you choosing to get caught up in the past means you are not available to invest that emotional currency in the present so we lower our ability to perform by allowing ourselves to get stuck in the past very Joe dispensa of you I love it I love Joe's work yeah Joe's work has been incredibly influential I love it yeah and that and I like the sports analogy because it's very easy to visualize what how that you can you can look at that and say like hey that happens in life too yeah oh absolutely if you two get in a disagreement later today do you have the ability to say all right let's move to the next play or you're going to keep dragging out that conversation or disagreement over and over through dinner and then worse you wake up tomorrow morning and then you start rehashing and reliving it again you know that's that's where we have to be careful that's not familiar of course but think about it from a sales standpoint sure you know you're in any type of sales well you know you're smiling and dialing and my last nine calls ended up with big giant nose am I dragging that energy and that pessimism and that negativity into my next call or am I wiping the slate clean each time it's the same thing with pitching a business anything 100% one of the reasons that Stephen Curry is the best shooter to ever play the game yes he has great footwork and mechanics yes he's gotten in millions of repetitions yes he has unbelievable off the charts hand-eye coordination but one of the main reasons is he understands the concept of next play if Stephen Curry misses six shots in a row you'll never convince him that that seventh shot isn't going in he doesn't drag the baggage of six miss shots into the next one and that is really hard to do so so one component is the next play and this is actually terminology I use with myself all of the time you know I I show up as less than my best self with my children and maybe I was a little irritable or maybe I wasn't present maybe I was thinking about being on your show instead of being present with them I have to quickly move to that next play the next component is learning how to focus on what you have control over which we call control the controllables and I'm of the belief there's only two things we have control over 100% of the time and that's our own effort and our own attitude now you can mix effort and attitude and you get discipline you get mix effort and attitude you get enthusiasm you mix effort and attitude and you get preparation we're in control of those things but they're really spokes off of the same wheel if I can put the vast majority of my focus on giving the best effort I'm capable of is consistently as possible and having the best attitude that I'm capable of is consistently as possible most things will fall into place in my life I don't have to spend time worrying about them focus on what I have control over and let go of the things that I don't yeah and the other thing on the other side of that is if you know you're giving your best attitude and your best effort and you've done that even if you fall short you'd be like well that's all I could do there was nothing I could do all I can do is all I can do and that's what those two things yeah and and we talked about effort earlier that if working hard is a choice not working hard is also a choice but if we unpack attitude a little bit I'm a big believer that attitude has nothing to do with the events and the circumstances in our lives it doesn't have anything to do with what other people say or do it has everything to do with how we choose to respond to that so we do not control external circumstances or events but we have the choice to choose our response to those so I try to put so much more of my energy into having thoughtful intentional responses even when things don't unfold to my preference I still want to make sure I'm responding in a very thoughtful and intentional way and because that's all you have control of I can't change the event so the more I the more I blame complain make excuses about it the more like it's not going to change so all I can do is be thoughtful in this thing happened it wasn't my preference but what's a decision that I can make that will actually move me just a little bit forward and that's really where I try to put my attention sometimes I get some flack on this show because my delivery can be blunt and some say maybe harsh at times but it's it's rooted in what you're saying which is I firmly believe that you can't control any of the events around you not only do I believe I know it it's true right and the way that I choose to respond to that is by looking at them as like well that is the event and now I'm the person so I think sometimes and especially nowadays we get into this kind of victim place well listen I'm not saying there's not victims of course there's victims sure there's always victims but there's a there's a lot of people that are playing that card a little too hard in my opinion right and they're just constantly living in that victim space where they don't ever want to take this accountability and be like okay whatever's going on in the world whatever happened in politics whatever law was passed whatever the like you either have a choice to move forward in a productive way or wallow in your own suffering and like there is a choice like you could two people can be in the exact same circumstance and have completely different lives right they can have the same upbringing the same circumstance same parent and have completely utterly different lives one can be successful one can be unsuccessful and I think the successful person is just recognizing that even in terrible circumstances you always have the option to move forward with a positive attitude in a productive way always we're in perfect alignment on that I mean even even just take the global pandemic I mean there are some people that will say that is the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity and there's others that will say that is the best thing that ever happened to humanity it's the same event is just a different perspective and just so you guys and your listeners don't think I live in some type of fantasy land I have very distinct preferences on most things you could ask how I'd prefer any specific scenario or event to turn out and I'll tell you with great conviction my preference but I've also come to the conclusion and I say with a huge smile that whoever's in charge of this whole universe it's not their job to meet all of my preferences that it's not whoever's in charge of this big show to make sure Alan Stein Jr. is happy every minute of his life and gets everything he wants every day it's my job to respond to whatever the world throws at me and I can either choose a response that moves me forward and makes my life just a little better or I can choose one like an attitude of victimhood which is going to actually make it worse so I do my best to have thoughtful intentional responses that move me forward now I'm not perfect with it because we're human beings, we're fallible, we're flawed but if most of my responses move me forward then I'm going to be on an upward trajectory for the rest of my life which is my goal I just finished Arnold Schwarzenegger's book and he has like Arnold's rules at the end of it and a lot of a lot of the things you're saying he are things that he lives by I mean he's a living example like he's put the discipline in he might be one of the most disciplined people that I've ever read about I mean I've never seen anything like it anyways I would love for you to give the audience some tools that they can do on a day-to-day basis to maybe be the best version of themselves so I have things that I do and I don't get to hit them every day I don't get my preference every day but when I do I show up as the best version for instance meditation being able to read for an hour what are things that you do to show up the best version so here's a self audit that your listeners I would love for your listeners to do I do embrace technology but I'm kind of old school I'm 47 years old so I've grown up straddling pre-technology, post-technology to make it simple and analog take out a piece of paper and you draw a line down the middle on the left side I want you to come up with an exhaustive list of the things that we'll just say fill your bucket mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually the things that you love to do they light you up they give you energy they make you feel confident they make you feel fulfilled and optimistic this could be jumping on your peloton bike taking a yoga class walking your dog around the lake listening to a documentary or an outstanding podcast like this could be meditation or prayer but what are the things that nourish your soul and literally as you're writing the list you can't help but start to smile you love this stuff so much then on the right side of the line I want you to write down how you've been spending the bookends of your day your morning and your evening routine what do you normally do the first 60 minutes after you wake up and the last 60 minutes before you go to bed and don't write down what you wish you've been doing or what people on Facebook say you should be doing write down what you've been doing if the first thing you do when you wake up is grab your phone and check social media or email then write that down and that takes some courage and some vulnerability but write it down and then to complete the self-audit you compare the two sides of the paper and you ask yourself arguably the most important question you can ask yourself when it comes to personal development and personal performance am I doing the things that I know I need to do to show up as my best self now even unbelievable high performers like you guys will most likely if you do this with some honesty and some vulnerability you'll start to uncover what's called a performance gap and a performance gap is the gap between what we know we should do to be our best self and what we actually do on a daily basis and there's always going to be a gap now the world's highest performers have made that gap a razor thin edge but for most people they'll start to see a fairly wide gap I know I need to do this but I'm not doing it and the key is can you start having the discipline and the accountability to slowly incrementally and progressively and systematically start taking the things from the left side of the paper and working them into your morning and evening routine and it doesn't mean by tomorrow morning you have to have the ideal perfect two-hour morning routine can you spend 10 minutes tomorrow doing a few of the things that are on this list and if you can make that commitment you will start showing up with more energy you'll show up with more optimism you'll have a higher sense of fulfillment and you will bring a better version of yourself to everything that you do Yeah, you know I as you were talking and I tell the audiences all the time Lauren and I have the benefit of learning at the same time as them I obviously learned a little earlier because I get to sit here with you now before it goes out I'm going to do that exercise and I don't want people to think that Lauren and I have it all figured out I guarantee you we find some performance gaps in our even in our lives and I get the benefit of doing this all the time and learning from people like yourself but nobody's perfect and so I think sometimes people listen and they get overwhelmed because like oh that's that person's a high performer that person has it figured out that person's a speaker that person has a business that's an athlete that's not me right yeah but what I'm saying is it's everyone everyone can find that extra inch including yours truly think about I get paid for a living to share this stuff from stage and share it on page and I have performance gaps I'm not doing every single thing that I know that I need to do so this is not about perfection it's not about mastering the game but here's what I want folks to feel inspired by first of all though perfection out the window life is not perfection relationships are not perfection business is not perfection but what we can be inspired by is incremental progress so my goal for 2023 is can I have fewer performance gaps in 2023 than I had in 2022 can I consistently make slightly better decisions in 2023 than I did in 2022 can I have slightly better habits slightly better discipline so it's about just slowly tightening the screws and refocusing the lens to incrementally be just a little bit better so if anyone listening to this right now feels overwhelmed or feels the temptation to be self-critical that oh my gosh my morning and evening routine is a huge mess don't worry about perfection can you make it just a little bit less of a mess tomorrow morning and the day after that this concept of be greater than yesterday I am obsessed with this conversation because it really is editing and refining editing and refining it's like you just have to constantly edit and refine and never feel like you get to the end of the finish line yeah there is no finish line that's the beautiful part right and we'll always come across new information you mentioned Joe Dispenza earlier I mean I think I first learned about Joe about three years ago which means I'm 47 which means for 44 years I was not aware of his brilliant work and I was doing things without the knowledge of what it is he has to share then I hear and read and watch and listen to him and it makes changes one of your previous guests is one of my all-time favorite which is Rob Dierdek love Rob that was a magnificent episode if anyone listening has not listened to that episode go back and listen you know same thing I've been a fan of Rob's generally speaking forever but I had no idea his level of what it was that he shared from a personal mastery standpoint and there are portions of that that I've been able to adopt now his framework doesn't work for me personally because I have some slight OCD tendencies and if I get too worried about monitoring every minute of my day it actually stifles me and I say that with a huge smile in respect because I love Rob and I love his but his exact framework doesn't work perfectly for me and I'm not implying that my framework is going to listen for everybody that's listening to this show but you can pull nuggets from it and pieces and then slowly start to make your own collage and mosaic of what does work for you and that's the that's what all of us should be aiming for what is Allen's bookings of his day what is your morning and night I can tell it's specific interesting enough it's not as specific as you'd think what I prefer to do is put up certain guardrails but I don't necessarily have every minute actually you know accounted for in an ideal world and that's the thing is we live in a practical world we don't live in a perfect world so some people get frustrated because they try to design what would be the perfect morning routine but then they've got jobs and they've got kids and they've got spouses and they've got things going on that don't allow for a perfect routine it has to be a practical routine so that's my favorite thing when people come on and have these crazy routines and they tell the things and I'm like oh you don't have any kids because you know my son wakes up at five in the morning screaming with the dirty diaper and eating food my routine just went out the window yeah well one of the phrases I try to live by is do the best you can with what you have wherever you are so on a morning where your kids aren't screaming at 5 a.m. might be a morning where you can stick to your morning routine you know a little bit better on a morning where they are screaming at 5 a.m. then you've got to make some pivots and maybe you turn what would be a 20 minute meditation into a 10 minute and what would be a 30 minute workout into a 10 minute but at least you were able to do something you made the best of that situation so every single day when I wake up I want to do something that involves my body my mind and my heart what time do you wake up I'm a natural early riser I rarely set an alarm unless I have to catch a flight before like 7 a.m. but I naturally wake up around 6 30 in the morning that's a preference but keep in mind kind of with the chicken and the egg that also means I usually go to bed by 10 or 10 30 I'm not a night owl I don't stay up late I'm not a big partier so when you go to bed at 10 or 10 30 then getting up at 6 30 is pretty reasonable and you've gotten some sleep so I try and do something that involves my body sometimes that's an actual physical workout going for a run lifting some weights I told you guys before the mics went hot I did some hot cold therapy this morning some sauna mixed with a cold shower so something for my body I want to do something to integrate my mind and my mental space so maybe that's listening to your podcast or listening to Joe Dispenza could be watching a video on YouTube but something that's going to feed my brain and then something that's going to engage my emotions could be conversation with a loved one anything that's going to kind of get my heart going and if I can do those three things before I formally start my day then I feel like I've created a foundation now there's sometimes I've got the luxury of having two hours to do all of that then there's other times where I have maybe not the luxury and I've got 15 to 20 minutes to try and squeeze some of that in but that's okay it's going to constantly ebb and flow and that's what's most important Ryan Holiday gave such a good tip he said that instead of doing his normal like at home routine when he travels he has a travel routine I love that that was like that was really helpful for someone like all three of us that travels a lot it's like you don't have to stick to the same routine that you have at home what do you do to wind down are there any pillars that you adhere to when you're getting ready to go to bed absolutely and I'm so glad you brought that up because I think in today's day and age the morning routine gets all of the headlines that's what everyone says is so important but as we say with the chicken and the egg well what comes before a morning routine the previous night's evening routine so the ability to get quality sleep will then allow you to wake up feeling refreshed and ready to hit that morning routine you may be slightly surprised because there aren't very many motivational speakers who will say what I'm about to say I actually will binge watch Netflix for 60 minutes to 90 minutes before I go to bed because it allows me to turn my mind off which for me is the number one component to get restful sleep my mind is like a squirrel and I am always thinking about something now I also have a really deep fascination with directing with acting with cinematography so when I'm watching a good show I'm certainly watching it for the content you know whether it's a comedy to laugh or a drama to make me think I'm also watching it because I'm fascinated why did they choose that camera angle why did they like so so it actually stimulates me but at the same time it allows me just to unwind but I have a routine of you know I usually take a warm shower at night I wear the blue blocker glasses so that I'm not getting the blue rays I put myself to bed at a fairly consistent time you know I keep my room completely blacked out so there's no lights and I don't use electronics when I'm in my room so I've got certain systems in place that allow that to happen but every night's a little bit different and sometimes you know you travel you're going to go out with some friends and you may be out eating later than you normally would eat I'm not a big drinker but you may have a drink or two so there's things that can potentially throw it off so it still goes back to don't worry about perfection do the best you can with what you have wherever you are I think it's good you mentioned things like that because I think that you know there's a lot of wellness gurus people that'll sometimes demonize something like watching a screen or TV or playing video games in my personal life I'm probably similar to you my brain's always racing I'm thinking it's hard to turn it off I'm analyzing all this stuff it can cause stress it can make it hard to sleep if you're racing like that if I go and play video games it's not because I'm addicted to video games it's because it's the thing that maybe it'll take me out of where my brain is normally at and then I'm like okay if I can relax a little bit and that's why I also like working out if you're doing a hard workout it forces you not a little one but it's something that really makes you think and puts you actively in that workout it takes you out of your normal state of mind and I think sometimes some of these platforms or practices get demonized but to me not it's not all black and white like video games Netflix social whatever it could be as long as you have the right context and it can take you out of your normal way of thinking and calm your mind down so that you can get restful sleep like to me I'm all for it Amen love that that was brilliantly described well you know another thing too is that people you know sometimes they get so into these we have all these people come on and they share the routine and then people build these elaborate routines but if the routine to your point if it gets fucked up in any kind of way it messes up their whole day and I think I hope you're not referring to me because today I couldn't meditate this morning which was a real bummer and I've actually planned my meditation for the plane today sure but so you better not be like trying to like but you know what I'm saying is that we get I could see that you're speaking out of the center of your mouth people get so anal about their routines and then if the routine gets derailed and also they get anal about their diets there's a million things and if you're traveling if you have kids if the day gets right if something just goes astray for the day like you have to be able to kind of to your point look at the guardrails get back on the track and say okay no big deal I can keep moving forward wait what did you say earlier next game next play next play next play well think the best let's say fitness routine for this example the best fitness routine is the one you'll do I can write up and design the most perp like from a biological standpoint the best fitness routine if you're not going to do it then I can just go ahead and rip up the piece of paper or delete the text that I sent it so bottom line is it's the it's it's what someone will actually put into practice and that's what we need to do and you said earlier so we design something we do our best to adhere to it and then we slowly tweak and refine it you know one of the things I try to live by and I laugh because this is such a a basic concept but there's actual some depth to it the real key to success the key to fulfillment the key to performance is to do more of what works and do less of what doesn't and I laugh because it's so in our face but think of how many people right now outside of this this studio are consistently doing things that they know don't work but they've grooved a pattern of repeatable behavior that has given them comfort and they know that it's not in their best interest to do it but they're they're enjoying it and they're doing it because of the comfort so to me that just figure out what's working in your life and double down on that figure out what's not working and either don't do it or find a way to tweak it I can give an example that you mentioned earlier the content that you consume if you're getting on instagram and and you're scrolling through the the page and all of it is is gossip and um you know memes whatever it is and it's not doing anything to enhance your life in my opinion I mute it I don't want to see it I I star things that I want to see and I also am very specific and thoughtful and purposeful about whose content I'm consuming on instagram stories if it doesn't add some kind of value to my life I'm not going to waste my time and I think a lot of people one of the things that they're doing that's wasting like wasting their time is consuming a bunch of content that they know maybe isn't enhancing anything well listen I I say this all the time you know and I people this is no secret at this point of the show like Lorne and I are outspoken characters we say things that maybe rub people the wrong way they don't agree all the time we've that that's been the brand since day one right like we're we say how we feel and some people like that a lot and some people really don't like it and somebody sent me a review that it's and it was it was someone on our team it said they wrote like sometimes I hate listen to this show just to hear it gets and my I'm the first one to say if I make you feel that kind of way if something upsets you that much if some if you're tuning into this show and it's making you feel bad or it's not making you feel happier you're not feeling like you can take something productive I'm the first one to say turn me off go like there's something go listen to you go listen who there's a million other options you got to go to places that make you feel good I know that if something make doesn't make me feel good I'm not sitting there turning it on to take more suffering I'm moving to something else and I think for some reason some people have this innate need to like enhance the suffering in their life for no reason oh you're so right right it's like move the fuck on I'm not even just talking about me but anything anything that doesn't make you feel good or productive or valuable like you got to go somewhere else absolutely I love that concept and another one that I this is kind of the journey I'm on at present is when I hear something or see something or watch something that that conjures up frustration or irritation or you know any any of the emotions that I'd prefer not to have most of the time I actually ask myself what what is this triggering deep inside of me that it's not it's not what Michael just said he just said something that's actually digging deeper self accountability yeah and I want to figure out what that thing is because and the point I'm trying to get to is there would be absolutely nothing that either one of you could say that would dictate my mood or how I feel about myself because I'm at peace with and I've done enough work to figure out that if you say something that's triggering I'll figure out what it is that it's triggering and I'll do my best to reconcile that so at present if someone says or does something and I start to feel that way I don't blame them I look inward and go what is it in me that has not been reconciled that I need to start working on fixing or healing because I don't ever want to give my power away and if a simple Instagram post can make me go from zero to a hundred frustration level that has nothing to do with what they posted that means there is something inside of me that is not healed or not been resolved and I want to figure out what that is so this goes back to this this idea of personal accountability as Jaco willing the Navy SEAL says extreme ownership I'm 100 percent responsible for everything in my life not the circumstances of the events I'm 100 percent responsible to the response to those things and I actually enjoy that part of life to me it's a big game put that on a billboard and can you do a book on that next I may need to no that needs to be a book but I love the perspective of like I mean it's simple as me and maybe this is just my rebellious streak I never want to be in the position where I'm giving somebody's opinions or thoughts or ideas power over the way I feel personally in my own life absolutely right and so whether I dislike what they said or disagree I don't want to be in a position where I'm giving them the power to dictate how I feel about something for the rest of the day or life right like and I think that's as simple as it is is like if you're on the internet you're listening to not even just us anybody just know as soon as that person can make you feel different or take you out of your peaceful state of mind like you have just given your power away to that person 100 percent so then ask yourself why why is what they just said bothering me so much and then you start to unpack it and you figure out well it's it's conjuring up feelings of being disrespected and I don't like feeling disrespected and it takes me back to when I was a child and maybe someone disrespected me and it embarrassed me in front and you can start to put the pieces together and figure it out and then once you've figured it out now you take the power back because now you're not worried anyone can say or do anything they want and I should be able to have the wherewithal to have the composure and the poise to not let it dictate my mood or how I'm going to navigate the world I also think like your energy of the day is like a cell phone battery it's filled up like a cell phone battery and I don't want to take one precious percent of my cell phone battery towards someone else posting something it just feels like a waste of my time yeah have you seen the new Chris Rock special it just came out I have not I can't wait to see it you gotta watch and Lord hasn't seen yet either but he has one of the funniest lines I've heard it said anybody who says words heard has never been punched in the face and I rarely said it out loud because it's true it's like it's such an interesting analogy it's like everybody running and screaming words heard it's like what you have and he was referencing obviously when he got slapped by Will Smith of course it was funny when you think about it because you have all these people that words hurt words hurt and it's not it's not a physical thing right it's your perception well that's the thing see the words themselves don't hurt it's it's how you choose to internalize them English is the only language I speak and sometimes I don't even speak that very well if you say let's just say you speak a different language let's say you speak Mandarin if you just said something disparaging to me in Mandarin I didn't have no idea what you said so those words would not hurt me in the slightest because I can't even interpret what you just said especially if you said them with a smile and a friendly tone you could say something incredibly disrespectful I would have no clue so the words themselves aren't what causes the destruction it's when you say them I internalize it and personalize it and I allow it to conjure up some triggers I have inside of me and then I start to tell myself a story you know I'm getting upset because actually what Michael just said is right he just said and that's where we have a problem so yeah I'm with you and I can't wait to see that Chris Rock special he's really good you wrote a book you wrote two books but the first one I want to talk about raise your game high performance secrets from the best of the best I want to I want to do like a two sides here sure what are some of the secrets from the high performers like your favorite personally but then I want to know what are some things that you see what is it people who aren't performing sure doing well we covered a couple of the main premises and raise your game which is never get bored with the basics and work towards mastery of the fundamentals work on balancing humility and confidence but another one that I think we really need to touch on is falling in love with the process is is learning how to trust respect and appreciate the process all of us have outcome goals in our world you know in our lives you know whether it's a business outcome or relationship outcome a parenting outcome we have goals and goals are great because they provide clarity and direction for where we're trying to go but once you have a goal now you need to focus on what is the process that will increase the chance that I reach that goal so what are the mindsets the skill sets the habits the you know what are the things I need to do on a daily basis and high performers understand that somebody like a Kobe Bryant can say my goal is to win an NBA championship this year and of course a lot of NBA players that's their goal what can I do why do I break it down from a process standpoint to increase the chance that happens first of all as an individual player on the team I need to show up as my best self because the very first step to improving the team is improving yourself you know if you want a better business next year then you need to show up better you know that's I mean we have to take that personal accountability then you need to be able to say how can I be influential and impactful enough to make that contagious with my teammates because basketball is a team sport how can I support the two of you my two teammates so that you're showing up as your best self because if collectively all of us improve then the team will get better and that will move us closer so learning how to trust and respect the process because doing so will increase the chance you'll get the result that you want and you know that could be something like a sales goal someone listening to this is in some type of sales or runs their own business and their goal is to sell a million dollars in 2023 well once you've figured that out figure out what are the micro steps and decisions and things you need to do that increase the chance that you'll be able to sell that much and then you need to make a commitment to doing them and if those things are measurable if those things where you can say I have a checklist if at the end of every day I've done these six things then you're moving closer to that goal which is all that any of us can do because we can't guarantee outcomes but we can focus on the process and if I can rest my head on my pillow at night saying I did the six things that I know will greatly impact whether I reach that goal then if I start to stack some wins and I start to do that consistently it's usually not a matter of if you're going to hit your goal it's just a matter of win what are some things that people who aren't performing doing maybe point some stuff out that you've seen where you're like you know what we could be doing this better well the big one is so let's stick on this theme is they're so outcome driven that if they don't get the outcomes they want in a given day then they think all right this was a failure I'm not moving in the direction I want this is never going to happen so it kind of goes back to focus on what you have control over so you don't necessarily control how much you sell but you can control whether or not you dial the phone 100 times today and if you say for every 100 phone calls I make I get 10 people that are interested and for every 10 people that are interested I close at a 30% rate which means every 100 phone calls you make you make three sales all right well now let's figure out how many sales you need to make to hit the million dollar mark and now it's just math you might have to make 400 calls a day to close the 12 people each day that will get you closer but now you know what to do now of course it's not that perfect there'll be some days where you close three there'll be some days where you close 13 there'll be some days where you close zero but now you just focus on the process so I don't have to wake up every day saying did I sell a million dollars I just have to wake up every day saying did I make my 400 calls and if I did that then I'm living based on process and I'm a huge process guy a huge systems guy especially with physical wellness and physical fitness like don't worry so much about whether you have a six pack at the moment think of the three or four things that if you did consistently it would increase the chance you would have a six pack and then just start getting taking taking pride in doing those few things every single day and then time will tell I think in the fitness world it's so important you know and I used to do this you didn't give yourself enough time to get in shape right you'd be like I'm going to do this and these workouts and this fast and this diet for one month and then you do it and you don't see the results that you think you're going to get in a month and so you think it didn't work what I realized in my personal life was and when I got my fitness back in order because listen I was looking we'll shake you there for a minute I was like let's stretch that first like base period to a year let me take one year of consistent health practices to get a base it wasn't I'm going to be a six pack I'm going to have big muscles I'm going to get in shape it's like I just want one year of consistent activity to get a base level and then even this year I'm like I'm going to take one more year to get in good shape right and on paper now maybe people would say okay you're in good shape but like for me my goal is like okay I'm going to do a year and my what I did was instead of doing one month or two months or three months and then falling short and feeling like it didn't work or feeling discouraged I'm allowing myself the practice now to say okay I'll be strength training three to four days a week I'll be in that cold plunge three to four days a week I'll be walking three to four days a week and I'm doing that for a year and after a year I'll maybe measure some results yes right and I just it was an exercise of stretching it out further than what I was doing before which was like hey let me take a month before I go to Cabo to have a six pack and it never worked right because I it just the exercise wasn't long enough because you focused on the process and you focused on what you have control over even use this show I mean you guys have one of the most highly listened to shows in the world the reason you have one of the most highly listened to shows in the world is because you put out really solid content really solid episodes like you focused on the process see most people just say how do I get a top podcast on iTunes that's the wrong question the question is how can I be of service and put something out into the ether that people will find valuable and if I can do that to a great degree then I'll start to attract my tribe and then they'll tell other people and then slowly you'll build it so the outcome is I want to heavily listen to podcasts but the process is can we get good guests can we have insightful entertaining conversation that adds value can we have practical takeaways can we have a high production value focus on the things you have control over and then just let the results just happen Yep and our thought is also like Lauren and I talk about this all the time unless we've had seasons where like sometimes maybe the show is better than others we're working I mean we've done five almost 600 episodes right but we always say like we're not even scratch the surface of what we want to do like what's repetitions repetitions whenever people come to this company Dear Media and they say hey I want to do a podcast and I want to be the next Joe Rogan I'm like listen that guy's got 2,000 episodes been doing this for 20 years right like or when they say when people come and they say I want to be a blogger how do I make money I'm like we've got to refine the question yes how do I solve a problem for an audience and how do I put out engaging content that actually adds to their lives and then the money part will find you and that's you know and the other thing you've said both with the podcast example and your personal fitness journey is you understand there has to be some patience which we're not always naturally inclined I'm not a very naturally patient person but you also believe in consistency and repetition it took a long time to believe that though it took a long time to believe that absolutely like we I would argue that we were both not the most patient people for a long period of time more maybe more patient than me but it's you know I said this a long time ago don't make me choke you you learn to be patient by being impatient and realizing it doesn't work right so over time I've realized anytime that's been a quick fix short hack something that is quick money whatever it is there's no longevity in it so you have to build patient practices or else you're just going to continue to fall short absolutely and you said something before that let's let's pull on this thread for a moment repetition you know something I say to every player I've worked with every business I work with and I say this to my own children all of the time repetition is not punishment repetition is the oldest and most effective form of learning and skill acquisition on the planet that will never change if you want to get good at anything you need to put in the repetitions and the natural process is the first few repetitions won't be near as good as repetitions down the line I mean if you've done 500 episodes of this show I'm willing to bet your last five are better than your first five and at that time you did the best you could with what you had and those were really good episodes but you've gotten better at the craft you've gotten better at listening you've gotten better at asking questions probably gotten better at doing due diligence in advance you probably have a better comfort level with what you're doing same thing you know as a keynote speaker I've given hundreds of keynote talks my last one was definitely better than the first one that I ever gave now I don't beat myself up for the first one because at that time it was the best I could do but I take pride in repetition and I can tell you right now if you have me on your show three years from now I can promise you that the most recent keynote I will have given at that time will be better than the next one I'm about to give because I believe in repetition and I believe in continuous improvement so if you can learn to fall in love with the process here's the beauty you've already won in advance see if your entire self-worth and confidence is all wrapped up in outcomes then you live a life that really ebbs and flows when you hit the outcomes you feel good when you fall short you feel lousy when you learn to love the process then you've already won in advance no matter how many people listen to this specific episode whether it's one or one million is absolutely irrelevant to what we're trying to create right here which is a fun and engaging helpful conversation that's all that matters so we gotta be process-centered and it's really easy for me to say very hard to do and trust me I get blinded by and distracted by outcomes all of the time so I don't want anyone to think that I've mastered this this is something I'm still trying to work on but I'm better at it today than I used to be and that's really what's most important I feel like you're the perfect person to ask this to can you leave our audience with something that they can do and exercise I know you gave one earlier but maybe another one tomorrow morning when they wake up I know you gave I know you gave the one earlier but maybe something that's really great to sort of kick start being a high performer focus is really really important those that perform at a high level do a great job of not allowing themselves to get distracted not allowing themselves to have their mind wander so we need to get clarity so we've this will be a nice bow tie on the conversation that we've had because we've touched on this first and foremost is get crystal clear on what your North Star is what is it and this can be a siloed North Star just for your business or it could be something on a macro level for your whole life but get crystal clear on what it is that you're trying to achieve in 2023 maybe it's a personal fitness level maybe it's selling a million dollars and whatever you're doing in your business get crystal clear on what that goal is then figure out what are the four, five, six measurable stats, analytics, habits, mindsets that will increase the chance that I'll reach that thing and make sure you commit those pen to paper and say that if I do these five or six things I give myself the best chance to hit that goal and then every single morning when you wake up and every single night before you go to bed make sure you're looking at that list and you're measuring how well you're doing it you know today I did four of the five things I need to do today was a pretty good day I'm capable of better but it was a pretty good day tomorrow see if you can beat that and commit to doing what's on the list don't worry so much about what that North Star is and if you can commit to that and you start having consistency and repetition and you start stacking wins you greatly increase the chance you're going to hit that goal Alan Stein, Jr. guys go get his book it's called Raise Your Game and Sustain Your Game I think this episode was so valuable you are invited back on the podcast in three years I can't wait to see where you are Or maybe sooner we like to end this Yeah, you're awesome I'll go ahead and book my flight, thanks You guys also we got connected through Edmillette Alan was on Ed's podcast so go listen to that Alan, pimp yourself out where can everyone find you the book, all the things? Websites, just allensteinjunior.com if anybody listening if you have a business or work at a business that brings in keynote speakers that's my primary vocation you can find either book on Amazon or Audible and I'm easily found on social media at allensteinjunior on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn take a tremendous amount of pride in being both accessible and responsive so if something in this conversation struck a chord and someone has a question or wants to share a story just shoot me a DM on Instagram I'm really good about getting back to people Thank you so much for coming on I had so many tips from this episode Alan, it was so nice to meet you Yes, you too Alan Thank you so much 10 out of 10 That was awesome