 Well, are we ready? I think we are. Long time. Well, welcome everybody. I go by the name of Alan Cohen, and today I'm connecting with the beautiful spirit that goes by the name of David Hofmeister. It is my custom to start interviews and programs with a short prayer, so David would be okay if we pray in for a moment. Beautiful, thank you. Well, let's just take a moment to recognize that we've all been guided here for a reason. That spirit is in charge. There are gifts for everyone here. And so we open now to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We see both David and myself sharing what is most helpful to everyone listening, watching live or to the archive. And we ask that only healing and well-being come from our gathering by the grace of God. And so it is. Beautiful. So David, you have a wonderful new book out. This moment is your miracle. And I'm imagining that it's representing the cutting edge of your growth and your path on the course. So let's hear a little bit about what's in this book that's new and exciting for you and the readers and what gifts you'd like to share through this book. Well, when I think about this book, I think about wanting it to be really concise and profound and practical, all in one. So that someone can really pick it up and use it in a very practical way. So it's meant to be inspirational, but also to draw people into the practice of practicing the presence and really being in the moment and living in the moment. Because I'm a big fan of practical application. I always say it's 1% principle and 99% practice. And so not to discount the principle because that's very important too to be very clear of the non-dual and the oneness, to really put that into practice in everyday life. And so that was my desire behind extending this book right now during these times. And I love the title maintaining a spiritual awareness even during times when world events are cuckoo. Let's talk a little bit because we live in pretty crazy times. I mean, even as we're recording this when the midst of the longest government shut down in the country's history and there's terrorism and nationalism and prejudice and just crazy, crazy stuff. So what would you say to somebody who says, you know, it's a really nuts world. How can I survive here? And how can I live a conscious life when most of the people around me are going crazy in one form or another? Yeah, I think we have to reframe it and we have to put it in some kind of context because without a context, it seems like madness, absolutely madness. Every day you wake up and it's like, what now? What can possibly be going on next? But once we bring it back to this thing that really all we're doing is allowing the unconscious, the darkness to an awareness, then that's really the context we want to have and keep it in because it's like when we're watching our own emotions and we're watching our own reactions, then it's comforting to know that those reactions are always coming from interpretations and that we do have that power of interpretation. No one can take that away from us. We can interpret as we choose. And ultimately, I think that's very empowering. That's why we need this context because without this context, it can seem like a very depressing, disempowering experience on planet Earth at this time. So would you say that the politicians who seem pretty nuts are actually drawing forth stuff from our collective subconscious so we can shine the light on and heal it? Is that one of the purposes of an apparently crazy administration? Would you say something like that? Yeah, I would say that there's, underlying everything, there's an agreement in the sense that it's like a prearranged plan, a prearranged script that things are brought up at certain times and it's really not a random. The depressing thought would be to think, oh my gosh, that we've gone off the track somewhere or to try to take it in a personal way and saying, what is this politician reflecting in my mind and can I possibly be that messed up? That's what he said to me sometimes. So you're healing the inner Trump now, is that the idea? That's it. I mean, that seems to be one of the key things that's up in awareness now, really for everybody on the planet and because I travel a lot so I'm pretty much aware of that, but it's not like when I, a couple years ago when I was down going around through Mexico, they were voicing their questions. They were just upset with politics in general. They were quite upset with their own president and with the president of the United States. So it was more of a frustration around political ineffectiveness and I do feel like that's a big theme and I do feel it is, it has a blessing where we start to realize the power of our thoughts and that in a course of miracles we're told it is with your thoughts that we must work. So I think it starts to put the focus more on what is the content of my thinking instead of looking outside and being tempted and lured into the blaming and the complaining which really is disempowering. So it would seem as if the game is to change the external political environment and rearrange chess pieces and get your party in when meanwhile it's an inner process where you're working with internal politics more than external ones. Yeah, that's exactly it. I think it's, when that's the focus, you know, we are told in a course of miracles what you do comes from what you think and so again if we start to think of behaviors as more as just byproducts or results or effects of thinking then that's a big step because then we can really start to focus in zero in on the thinking what is the content of my thoughts and I think all sages throughout history have really tried to do that. They've just tried to say the truth is within you pay attention to how you're feeling don't disregard your feelings don't repress them and try to just gloss over them but use them as barometers as touch tones for what's going on in your consciousness and so in that sense we are really kind of having to get more focused in that way to what all the sages and the saints had been saying for many centuries. Which brings me to a really interesting question I'm often asked and it's very fascinating and the answer people say well is the world really evolving spiritually or is it getting worse and I used to give them an answer about what I saw was going on the outer world but lately I've been saying you know the world is what it is and if there's anything evolving it's our own particular consciousness so do you ever see the world evolving to a place that's going to be heaven on earth or basically is the world just what it is and we get to deal with it and join it or go to the Holy Spirit's world what would you say about that? Well I see the world as symbols so I've been curious like you have about many of the different world religions and spiritualities and I can remember quite a few years ago actually decades ago when when I picked up this big thick book that was thicker than the course it was called the Eurantia book and I was kind of fascinated because it really presented more of an evolutionary cosmology on a much broader scale Eurantia being earth and then the tiny little crude planets that's not very far developed kind of like Neil Donald Walsh when he has got in his conversations if it was a football field and we were talking about earth and evolution what yard line would be we'd be on how far do we have to go for a touchdown I like these kind of questions and got well you're on the five yard line you're on your own five you got 95 yards to march and then think of the Eurantia book earth was pretty much described as a very crude backward planet I think Ramtha through Jay-Z Knights had a similar thing on what the bleep you know that it's pretty primitive in terms of evolutionary development so I think that if you take it from that concept of looking at it in terms of symbols it is possible that there will be symbols that will get brighter and brighter and brighter and seem more evolved although we also have to keep in the back of our mind that there's no order of difficulty in miracles and that there's really no hierarchy and illusions the blessing of the course is it really just hammers that home no hierarchy of illusions and so I think though people have to relate to it so I do feel when people say I want to see more of a heaven on earth I would rather see things really evolving and I do feel like that's a question of desire if you really want that and your mind is so powerful then you will see symbols lighting up all over and you've been writing these amazing books which I find just delightful and fascinating and I find on my travels for the last 30 some years that I do see lots of symbols there's lots of laughter there's lots of hugs and it's at the level that I'm sharing and extending I'm getting kind of flooded with miracles like they talk about Amma hugging people I've been hugged by many people for for decades now so that maybe is why I have such a smile on my face I'm actually experiencing the effects of my giving and extending so this kind of comes to the happy dream doesn't it so is it possible to live in a happy dream where as individuals or collectively a subset of society that we're living heaven on earth or do we have to wait for everybody to get out of hell in order for us to live in heaven it's a big metaphysical question but let's hear well I feel that the teachings of quantum physics the teachings of the saints and mystics are all teaching us that there is no world apart from our consciousness that we're really experiencing a motion picture of our consciousness and so I've gone into that it just feels more and more it just feels like wow this is really true this is no just kind of a kind thing to say this is an actual experience so I would say that when we talk about the collective or we talk about individual enlightenment I actually feel it's only at the level of the mind and purified consciousness shows us the results of that and so to me it's very practical I'm always going around talking with people and listening and saying how practical this is and it's not like burying your head in the sand like an ostrich and pretending there's no external world it's actually diving in and saying show me spirit you have to convince me that there's no external world and that this is my own hallucination and it will be my happy dream of non-judgment when I'm not judging anyone or anything anymore then I'll feel the happiness one of the things that so impresses me about you David is you are indeed practical and the many course teachers out there I really look to you as somebody who truly models bringing the course to earth and living it lots of people kind of go off on intellectual metaphysical tangents but you bring it down to earth a workshop next to a slaughterhouse I remember that story that was a hard one for me because I would have been disturbed by that but you actually tell that story would you because I think it's a very inspiring story do you remember that yeah yeah I was in Arhus Denmark and I always leave it up to the organizers as far as choosing the venues and everything so when I was first going there I was like well this is like the factory district or whatever this isn't your typical like on Maui where you got the beautiful setting this was far from it when I went in there and then as I would go for a lunch break or take a walk it did dawn on me when I looked across I thought this is a there's a slaughterhouse right across the street from where I'm doing the gathering and yet I have such joy and compassion where I really take it to heart when I'm told from spirit join with whatever join with all your perceptions join with the sky join with the animals join with everyone around you have that sense of joining and connecting with everything and so when I was walking along back from lunch I believe I just decided to go right over there to the edge of the slaughterhouse and look right into the rows where the animals were going through to to be slaughtered and really just do eye gazing I mean I took it as an opportunity I mean we do this in some of our retreats but I said no this is my opportunity to gaze into their eyes because I felt like there was a communication going on there where there was they were expressing through their eyes mainly a fear like what is happening there was disorientation there was fear and I felt I see that as really a call for love so I actually took the time to be very very present and to look right into their eyes and assure them everything's going to be okay the same thing a child wants from a parent just that loving gaze of looking into your eyes and with the feeling the full feeling everything's going to be okay it's all going to work out you'll see you'll see it is what I was telepathically extending so you know that was important because once we got back into the workshop people were having reactions to the location to the venue and there was a lot of emotions coming up and we really had to use that fully for clearing in there yeah that's quite a teaching it's like looking head on head on at death and denying there's an illusion which is probably the biggest challenge that most people have would you say yeah I think so I mean there's so much of identification with the body with matter with appearances as being reality and I remember in the course Jesus even says what you believe you make true for you meaning subjectively what you give over your mind to with the sense of belief you make up a world in which it will seem to have reality for you until you withdraw your mind from that belief and so it's quite an optical delusion of consciousness I think is what Einstein called it and he was quite a deep profound thinker as well and he came to the same awareness speaking of animals lots of spiritual teachers say that animals don't have the same fear of death as people because in general they're living close to the spirit so is that your experience or do you believe that yeah I do think they oftentimes reflect that I know like with pets sometimes they'll even do things that more reflection of almost like they want to show compassion for their owners and they're kind of tuned in to their owner's emotion and I feel there's a great wisdom in that so I feel like they reflect a presence there that's very strong and very very loving and compassionate yeah I've learned a lot from my dogs they're my teachers of God in many ways yeah let's talk a little bit about your own path David so I'd be interested in hearing what is the cutting your leading edge of your own conscious, your own study of the course what is passion exciting and titillating that's best word what's invigorating to you in terms of your study of the course lately or your spiritual practice yeah I feel like I go through phases kind of where there's like a bit of a stepping back and quiet phases I've had phases over the years where I've kind of gone off to hermitages and it's been very inward almost more of traditional mysticism than being out and I enjoy that aspect and I really enjoy what seems to be the public phase like Jesus was kind of a public mystic teaching out in the square and from the boat and everything like that so for me I think it is kind of I feel like I'm coming more inward to one of those inward phases where I don't speak as much I haven't been doing as many public gatherings and travels just I was talking to Miranda McPherson recently and she was saying yeah she started to do more digital things just feel the blessing like we're doing right now it's just this beautiful radiant transmission and it's so easy whereas I contrast that with my many years of you know going all over the place even India, China Japan some really crowded places where you know you almost like navigating the body through seas of people and I loved all that I absolutely adored it but it does feel more of a phase of using the digital transmissions and also going into more of a quiet inward phase so the Dalai Lama said that you may not believe this but he said that he wishes he could quit being the Dalai Lama and just go home and do his spiritual practice so I'm sure I'm misquoting somehow but that was interesting I met with Muji over in Portugal at his place Sahaja and his body was like 64 and mine was about 60 it's like he was also just what the Dalai Lama was saying he was like looking ready to put a backpack on and just go disappear with all the people pressing on him and so we both kind of smiled and looked into each other's eyes like yeah brother I totally feel right where you're at because it was real similar for both of us well you know you and I both movie buffs I'm sure you're a big fan of the life of Brian do you remember that movie yeah it's very well you know they're trying to make Brian into the great Messiah and he's just a bozo and they all follow him get out of here leave me alone and say well master how shall we leave you alone like people wanting to pull on him and tell him about how to live so you know I can appreciate that as well yeah yeah we like the humor you know what will we do without the humor of those scenes you know that it just makes it all the easier for us to continue on when we can laugh like that what does of course say that the separation occurred my son of God forgot to laugh yeah something yeah that's it that's it so we have people who are listening to us are new to the course and people have been with it for a while everybody who does the course experience some resistance to it so what do you say to people who have been into a little while so I don't know I got to lesson 50 and I got bummed out and I quit so you know what advice would you give to people who value the value of the course but kind of get pulled to the side as we all do one way or the other how do you encourage them to continue well I think to me the context is so important because most of us get into the spiritual journey in a way where we we're hoping that our meditation practice or our spiritual practices will improve our life our life experiences as a human being and I think a lot of people have that experience that they tell me my life was not too bad and then I got in the course and it just got so much worse the intensity the floods of those extreme emotions started to come in almost like they consciously were taking a lid off of various defense mechanisms or protections that they weren't even aware of it and I think one of the biggest reasons for the resistance and the struggles with the course is it's still there's this underlying assumption that somehow I need to bring love and light and God into my personal relationships and my personal perspective of who I am when in fact it's kind of a washing away and a rinsing of the entire persona it's it's almost going like pulling into a power wash and and having the hoses turned on and it it's very disillusioning to the ego because the ego is like oh come on you got to be kidding like you cannot be serious so what I tell people is if we can just take like one statement from the course as being very valid that the world is backwards and upside down then if we're going to have an experience for most of us it's kind of like Alice in Wonderland you know through the looking glass like tumbling down the rabbit hole so instead of the course being like a bandaid to help patch your personal life together like Scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz it's more like all the straw is is meant to come out it's meant to get thrown all over the road and then there's something deeper still that I know you refer to in your books and just a more recent book about the the Dow the Made Easy you know there's that deep bedrock of spirit and truth that's there when things start to really dismantle and fall apart and so that's what I would tell people is there is a disillusionment that goes on with the dismantling and don't be too frightened or shocked by that but actually be open to when that's occurring there's you're actually progressing you're actually advancing you're you're clearing the mind and clearing the consciousness and don't throw the towel in or don't be too quick to conclude oh my god I've I'm really messed up and other people are saying and I'm insane because that's that's not really the truth of it one of my favorite lines from the course is you cannot be your own guide to miracles because it was you who's made them necessary if your life was working you wouldn't need a miracle so you know when I was in college I was assigned to read a book by a Polish psychologist named I think Dubrowski and it was called positive disintegration and he was a psychiatrist in a mental institution and he found that some people's lives became so dysfunctional that they actually had to fall apart before they could rebuild them so it sounds to me like you're into the same kind of falling apart that's actually prerequisite to reconstruction yeah I really believe that I mean I see that in my own path and then also when I travel around the world and I meet people who let's say have gone through the 12th program and they will describe this dark period this dark night of the soul this disillusionment that's really been a big part of them turning things around you know like even opening to a higher power they say they had to almost like a hit bottom or hit a rock bottom and I hear it so much and I went through it myself so I think that's important for us to talk about that and openly be transparent about that because that's part of the healing that goes on in 12 step groups there's so much witnessing there's so much transparency who gives their lead really says here's how it was here's what I did and here's how it is now you know and and that's important I think one of the steps is our lives became unmanageable yes I think we have to admit maybe not our whole life but aspects of our life that are unmanageable they're the ones that are calling for healing that's what the call for love is yes it's true it really is true was there a time David when your life or part of it was unmanageable and the course rescued you or what was your revolution in terms of the aha that the course was really one of your best friends on this journey well I think you know what I found really to be helpful is in relationships because there's a lot of spiritualities that don't really incorporate relationships into the equation of healing they're very fine pathways to God they're very devotional but I found for myself those chapters between 15 and 24 about special relationships and then special love relationship that was like a saving grace for me because I think I love reading that passage where the spirit was Jesus was saying you've almost heaven you've almost made it back to heaven you just have one block remaining and it's the special relationship because I think there could be a disillusionment and a dismantling around sickness and health issues around financial issues around concerns around politics and everything but the ones that kind of really seem to rip our heart open are the relationships like that scene in Braveheart Mel Gibson where the seeming betrayal scene just a look on his face of absolute unbelievable like he cannot believe that his buddy would turn on him and to me I think that's some of the most extreme pain that we face so I think the course if you had if I had to pick one thing I would say that was the saving grace of lift me up into serve a purpose for the whole instead of trying to focus in on one person or looking for salvation somehow in a person well I've been there too I think we shared that same path well I was a little long enough 15 to 24 or like 15 to 50 but I'm still so I did it when you get it but let's talk about special relationships because it is a big hot issue for lots of folks so let's see if we can dissect it according to the course why do people focus in on one person and say you are the one and you are the soul and you are my twin flame and usually in my experience probably yours as well that leads to disaster so let's talk about the dynamic of zeroing on somebody as your savior it could be a guru as well as a romantic oyster and then what you set yourself up for when you do that I like to hear from you please yeah well one of the lines that always helped me was from the beyond all idols section of the course where Jesus says when you decide upon the form of what you want you lose the understanding of its purpose so when I first read that wow that's almost like an eclipse like when I decide upon the form of what I want my focus goes on the form and then the purpose for the relationship is eclipsed by the form he says your will is universal and cannot be content with any form of any kind so he is saying we are entitled to vastness we will only know happiness in vastness we can't shrink down our vastness God's will can't be shrunk down into an idol and so that gave me a broader appreciation of idols because he starts off in there in that section what is an idol do you think you know when Jesus puts do you think you know in there after a statement you know it's almost like he's saying do you think you know are you following me so I have really gone into that and I started to realize that if forgiveness is just seeing the false is false forgiveness is not buying the trick of form thinking that God's will can be shrunk down to a specific form then it makes perfect sense that when I am riveted on an outcome of a particular person place thing whenever I try to make anything sacred even in this world sacred the holy water or the holy vortex or the holy ashram or whatever it's always a version of me saying no to forgiveness let me just have my special little thing here my little amulet or whatever it is and give it to me can you just let me have a little happiness with this little thing and the spirit's like you'll never be happy with that little thing you'll only be happy with vastness and I think all of us know somewhere inside that that's true you know that we will only be content with vastness I studied with a mystic teacher named Hilda Charlton in New York and she was in India for many years she told the story that once she climbed to the top of the Himalayas to this very remote ashram and as she was nearing the ashram she heard a voice say that's my pillow no it's my pillow and these two yogis you're arguing over whose meditation pillow it was and you know when that's the entire world at the top of the Himalayas they were fighting over this little pillow you know you take your neurosis with you wherever you can escape it to a mountain top yeah that's a beautiful story let's get back to people in special relationships so let's say somebody finds themselves in a special relationship with a person, a romantic, sexual or a marriage or whatever and they feel stuck there's enmity, there's judgment what can somebody do to turn a special relationship that is steeped in fear, guilty enmity to a holy relationship to a shifting point in that situation well to me I think the shift would be is focus on what are the gifts like all of us have so many gifts to give we have so many gifts to extend to everyone to the whole universe, to the whole sunship and if we can start to focus on the gifts how can I nurture that how can I clear my mind of expectations so that I may truly appreciate the one who I am and the one who's right in front of me then that will radiate a blessing to the whole universe so it's so different than this getting mechanism I think that's really the problem in interpersonal relationships is just is still valuing this idea meet my needs get the things that I want I was just reading right before I came over here for this interview this tennis player Rafael Nadal just after he lost in the Australian Open he just got engaged to his girlfriend of 14 years and they were asking him is she here and yeah she's here she came over as a wild card but basically he was saying she just comes to be she really wants to and if she doesn't want to come she doesn't come that's beautiful that's a beautiful way to go into an engagement is having that allowance like really be intuitive and just offer what you want to offer but there's not this expectation that I'm playing in a tennis tournament and you better be there or you better meet my needs opponent or whatever there's so much need meeting meeting needs in relationships that it's really based on this sense of lack and getting so that's what we're trying to purify from where we want to celebrate relationships but I don't think we can fully celebrate as long as we're trying to get something from somebody else and that's what the healing is letting that go it's all about bringing out the best in each other instead of keeping each other in the box may I ask you about your evolutionary relationships I may have come a long way since age 24 and how do you view romantic or partnerships these days is this something that's on in your radar or in your community is that a big issue what is the cutting edge of your understanding of partnership and those around you yeah I feel like the spirit can use this everything and so I think that can be very supportive I think more from my perspective right now is that I see the witnesses all around me as the reflections of purpose so my focus is really on the purpose on the shared purpose lighting up with that being excited by that being exhilarated feeling the joy and the passion of that shared purpose so I think probably I would say like for myself and for the community there's a focus on shared purpose and there's lots of collaborations that involve numbers of people little configurations of teams and projects that can extend in a broader way to the whole world and there's a synergy a very strong synergy that comes from that that really lights us up there is an exhilaration with that synergy so I would say we don't like go to either end of the scale we don't have like vows like the Franciscans poverty, chesity, obedience and you know traditional convents and monasteries and neither do we put something like romance together as an ideal for everyone in the community because in our community there's maybe like 45 people some are paired up in very ways given ways that feel very natural and helpful and nurturing and then there are those that are that are really just into God and more internal and not really interested in interpersonal relationships in the same way that they were at an earlier time in their life so it's kind of just a sense of acceptance and trust of let the Spirit give everything for the highest good do you think this purpose and future in the nuclear family or do you think that model is changing well I actually I mean I always see the value in that so I'm always happy to see when that's a nurturing thing but for many people I think a lot of young people today they feel very alienated like the millennial generation they almost feel like they're born into this culture and this family like they feel completely disconnected and so I actually feel very much like Yogananda used to talk about about how groups come together vibrationally drawn together by the Spirit to nurture and support sometimes course groups or I know there's a lot of Ananda communities around the world I do feel there's a nurturing happening when people have a very strong shared purpose spiritual purpose and then they give themselves over to that and then the configuration is designed to help elevate the awareness not so much to perpetuate a blood line or pass on the family business or maintain a culture that's been around for decades or generations you know it's more of a vibrational sense of us coming together in that way there's a lot of historical reasons for marriage you know like you said political social cultural religious and a lot of those I think we have grown I mean people do not marry let's put it this way ideally people do not marry for political purposes there's another reason to get together besides you're going to keep up with Joneses DNI saw a very interesting couple months ago it was called one husband three wives and it was a documentary about a Mormon polygamous community and we watched it because we thought it would be funny and interesting but actually these people really had a lot of love and a lot of support for each other and expanded my mind to see that where there's love anything can work whether it's whether you're a monk or a nuclear family two people or like steady nuclear family so I was impressed by the fact that their principles on which their lives were based were bigger than the form that their family configuration was taking yeah yeah I totally agree I mean I remember in my own journey way back before I even found the course I read this book by Thea Alexander called 2150 AD and I remember opening in and going this is mind expanding I was fascinated by it but I think it was it was good for me because it allowed me to travel around live in some spiritual communities meet lots of people be exposed to lots of ideas and start to stretch out of the boxes that I had more traditional boxes and then I enjoyed that and then I also have this sense of integrity I feel like all of us if we're going to be guided by the spirit to use certain symbols we can't just dismiss the symbols that were given to use so for people who are using the symbol of marriage for example I think they're taking that on through intuitive guidance it's very important but they have to honor that symbol and because it's one of their own mind training it's part of their own clearing away whatever distractions and temptations are and coming to a sense of integrity which is really in the mind it's not so much a personal thing it's integrity in the mind and then when people take on other symbols I rejoice with them too because I sometimes they're more into diet or yoga or exercise than they are into interpersonal relationships so I'll just join them right there and say tell me how's your discipline going I'd love to hear more about it so what I hear you saying is that it's more important to be integrity with the choice of symbols than to bicker over whether this symbol is it or not is that the idea? I feel like there is no universal culture there are no universal symbols I mean you know there's general agreement they'll show not kill and then you meet pygmies or people that say no we don't agree with that so there is no universal theology there is no universal culture we can't just say these are good symbols and these are bad symbols it's more the integral use of the symbols and the purpose behind the symbols that I always say is where we have to really come to an allegiance a loyalty there well stated thank you so a while back you mentioned millennials so let's talk about the evolution of technology and you know the world that kids age 10, 20, 30 are going up in are it's quite different than the world that you and I grew up in and so talk a little bit if you would about technology it certainly is a light side to it but then there's a dark side to it so how can we reach people who have a hard time communicating without their thumbs yeah that's interesting well you know I do like that movie her and I remember there's a scene where all these people are moving up and down these steps and they all they're just focused on their little smartphones and the little thumbs are going amazing they're not running into each other they must be somewhat intuitive but I actually feel like again the question is always what is it for so just like with anything if we're not really clear with the purpose out front then anything can be hijacked by the ego and certainly technology is a good example of that where people if they really let the ego hijack the technology it can get into isolationism it can get into all kinds of manners of defense and avoidance that instead of hiding around a persona mask it's almost hiding behind you know having an avatar or something where people don't even put their picture online anymore out of fear of something and talk about hiding behind an image you know literally having an avatar that speaks for them so I think it's really the purpose underneath it's the most important one of my clients said she was addicted to social media and I asked her what is the value in it like why is that more fun for you than dealing with people directly she said because I'm afraid of people and she said a person a face to face human interaction is threatening to me so it's easier for me to have a buffer by a device that keeps me one level away from the people I'm afraid of I can control that and manage that more than just dealing with that upfront close and personal relationship yeah I really find that I enjoy watching Amazon Prime or Netflix or some of these series and some of these things are coming out with now around clones or all different kinds of devices that are really just using technology you know back in our days we would tune into Star Trek whatever version or year but there's a lot of really good shows that are coming out that I'm actually enjoying using to do commentary on that use a lot of super high technology and yet it really starts to get to the core of getting into the guidance into the intuition and away from the reacting and responding to the images so it's really how we use it that determines the value what's this for yeah here you and I, I'm in Hawaii here in Mexico and we're reaching people all around the globe at this very moment through technology so you know spirit can use any technology that the ego can use and spirit can use in a spirit's purpose that's how I like to hold it yeah I mean I've been amazed I've kind of been doing this for a couple decades now using movies and music but particularly the movies and the episodes I'm coming up with the spirit is showing me that you know people would always ask me how can I go the most rapid way into a spiritual profound experience and it's more and more I can sit with a group of people I'm guided to use a specific episode or a specific movie and the combination of the movie that pauses the commentary just uncorks something where people go into a mystical experience and so again it's the music and the movies being used in a very precisely guided way seems to be somehow a time saver or something that pops the cork you know in a good direction, good acting bring to light a huge spiritual lesson that you would not read not get by reading a self-help book I mean Jesus taught in parables he was a master of the story and you tell lots of stories and so do I and it gets to people on a subconscious level that the intellect doesn't quite quite touch so speaking of Jesus, we both love Jesus so we did talk about your relationship with Jesus as a teacher, as a mentor, as a guide how has that evolved and how does it transcend what you were taught when you were growing up a lot of people still struggle with Jesus Christianity because they have negative history with it but of course there's much more to it than that so let's hear about your relationship with Jesus if I may yeah it's one of such devotion respect and yet there's that sense of equality that's there that's so pervasive even this past year I met somebody who had been raised Mormon and they spent a little bit of time with me and they just were like shaking their head they said I've never met anybody that loved Jesus like you love Jesus or talks about Jesus the way you talk about Jesus in such natural terms like he's right there with you all the time and I feel like it's kind of gone from more an adoration and a devotion more into a sense of a merge where now it's like that that Paul McCartney and Wingsong don't ever ask me why I never say goodbye to my love it's understood what to me is understood is the presence is so here and now so in the moment that when I want people to if they read this book this moment is your miracle I want them to go into an experience at the moment I've got to go higher with it it has to be an experience where they're just so like oh my gosh like a discovery of that presence and then I did another book a while back quantum forgiveness physics meet Jesus people love that title physics meet Jesus and again you can kind of see that face on there very softly so it's pretty much for me it's been like a merge I have to say where at the beginning I was raised Christian and so when I was in the course of the beginning I had the same experience a lot of people do there's a little bit of embarrassment or something in there talking about Jesus or even being concerned how will this be received and now it just feels like it's been such a merge that the spirit just speaks through me in any context or any situation where there's love there and I don't get to choose the words even even the word Jesus there's sometimes a smile or a hug or a pat on the back most can be extended and I just love that he is my side guru as well and I have a I think all the great spiritual teachers my relationship with him has been the most empowering he's real to me and it's not the religious Jesus or the historical Jesus to me it's a it's the personal Jesus it's the one who told Helen Shuckman that he would help her buy a winter coat if she needed it do you remember that story? let's talk about how Jesus or higher power is willing to actually touch us in the midst of our material life sometimes we think we're going to spiritually have to be a monk and we know it's food and clothing and money but do you think that God, higher power, Holy Spirit is willing to really reach the nitty-gritty of our physical life and help us with things that we're worried and afraid about that are quite material is that your experience or otherwise? yeah I find that the spirit is very practical and part of that practicality is the spirit reaches us in great detail and with great specificity and even in the workbook the Course Jesus says you believe in specifics so it is specifics that we will work with he comes right out I find a lot of spiritualities all is God, all is one, all is love and so forth if we're going to really have an experience in a full way we have to realize that there has to be an unwinding that occurs and that unwinding involves specifics that's why I've always loved guidance and for me even when I would read a teacher say well you won't actually hear guidance in this lifetime I would just be like what? because to me it was so practical I couldn't even imagine unwinding the ego in a rapid way without guidance by guidance I mean very specific guidance call so and so, go here, go there I feel like to me it was the greatest experience after I really made contact was I was not only willing to listen to that instruction, that commentary but also follow it really I saw the benefit of really following it the ego at the beginning would object and say are you crazy you know why would you ever do that or you know it was always trying to counter the guidance but I quickly learned how to really follow that guidance and it was for my own good can you think of any examples of what you've been guided very specifically in a surprising way with something turned out really cool that you never would have known if it hadn't been specific guidance anything in recent memory well it's just there's been so many parts of my life but I was just talking to a group recently even before I had the course I was guided to step out of graduate school and I was in this real elite program with full scholarship and there was only eight of us picked out of many hundreds and that was a good example for me of I just tried to fight it I tried to resist it this can't be right but actually I see now in retrospect that I had a whole journey of extending and sharing that I wouldn't have been able to dive into and really be of full use if I had just hung on to that graduate program in school psychology and psychometrics and WACE and intelligence test and it was way too tiny for me but at the time it seemed like that was my whole life, my whole world so that's an example that's kind of an extreme example the guidance come and say just leave that world it was another world that it was introducing you to by contrast well at that point it was guiding me out of one very kind of pressured elite graduate program into another one that was called educational foundations that was very eclectic and very open and I find that's how practical the spirit is it's not always like giant of leave graduate school but it actually guided me to my next step and then the course came when I was in this foundations program I was expanding my mind and then Jesus said here I've got a book for you now and I was like whoa so it went beyond who gave you the course how did you get to the course well I was at a humanistic psychology conference out at California and Virginia Satire was there I think and Francis Vaughn and Roger Wall amazing teachers transpersonal psychologists and so it was kind of in that we both love psychology too and you know a humanistic psychology Carl Rogers was there that was the last conference he spoke at and to be in the same auditorium with him and then at the end people rose I didn't know that would be the last time he would speak on planet earth but people rose and gave him like a ten minute standing ovation and my heart just blew open I mean I just had tears pouring down my face and people were just applauding and cheering and cheering and you know when you look at Carl Rogers even had a a young graduate assistant called William Thetford something you don't know about there's all these little connections where Jesus is using all these amazing teachers and so I had of course I gained a huge appreciation for it that way you know it's really I should mention that because when I was in graduate school I was in guidance and counseling similar to what you were doing and my first class the professor walks in like a set player on the table he said here's my course and he pressed the button and it was Sammy Davis Jr singing I gotta be me and then he held up the book for the course which was Carl Rogers on encounter groups and I took that book home and I think I read it one evening I was so hungry for authenticity and connection and trust and honoring myself for the spiritual food that had been craving and had no idea that I was craving and that was the turning point in my life when I stepped off the intellectual path onto the spiritual path so in an odd way Carl Rogers was the turning point for both of us go feed him you find all these similarities yeah because it was basically pretty radical even most people knew of Freud and most people knew of the B.F. Skinner but humanistic psychology was kind of like the new kid on the block and yet both of us like lit up so much with that that that was our journey into authenticity and then later on when I heard Bill Fedford was a graduate assistant of Carl Rogers I just had the biggest smile on my face like oh Jesus you are having so much fun with all these characters with synchronicities which brings us to something else I wanted to talk to you about so in those days what we were doing was called the human potential movement yes and I recently read a section of the course called the home in God where Jesus says something on our paraphernalia he says if you are still seeking to reach your potential you are heading for something that already exists he was saying what already is is eternal and there is no use in reaching for something you already have it is a big paraphernalia do you remember that at all do you want to comment on that concept David? I think that was also in my work with the course where I realized I was so much into self-help I was so much into human potential I was so much into expanding awareness and then I think it was one instant it started to dawn on me that spirit was created perfect it's like that idea that spirit is in a state of grace forever your reality is only spirit therefore you are in a state of grace forever to me I read these little logical things because I was big into philosophy and I'm like oh my gosh now that almost is giving us permission I would say to start to transcend the self-help you know the idea that sometimes Deepak will talk about pure potentiality and yet reality isn't potentiality there is an actual state of spirit and a state of grace and as soon as we acknowledge that and we just go what that is but does that sound really good then already we're opening our prayer our prayer of our heart to something that's even better more transcending than self-help and growth the self that's helping is the self that needs help sorry it's up to you so are we talking now about the end of reaching the end of striving the end of trying to make something happen are we talking about I need do nothing I think we're approaching that because it says right away at the beginning of the course that it is not necessary to seek for what is true but it is necessary to seek for what is false so that's the step right before the grace right before the I need do nothing and I find there have been some really good teachers at beta and the course that really emphasize don't use this spiritual phraseology don't use a bunch of affirmations to cover over this exposure so I think the exposure is really important and we have to allow that's what seeking for what is false is really about that's the neti neti of the east expose expose and then there comes a point where you start to open up and say okay it is a realization that comes to a place of stillness where the very thing that was seeking is not real and there a calmness, a peace comes in there's nothing driving anymore there's nothing pushing there's not even that inquiry that's so helpful but there comes a point where the inquiry dissolves away and we're just into being this I love that you have a wonderful exercise in your new book where you talk about called forth the fear so you can look at it head on and we tend to gloss over fear distract ourselves but what I hear you saying is that if you really want to heal fear you have to just let it come up and boldly shine the light on it so you can heal it so would you share that process this is one of my favorite parts of your book so let's hear about it from your own words please well the fear cannot be pushed out of awareness or denied because then you can't really go into the healing while that fear is still down there so I've always really been open to all kinds of exercises most of them call experiential exercises where you're out of the comfort zone where the fears just start coming up sometimes it could be as simple as an eye gazing exercise you mentioned your friend that this is social media to not have even those face to face encounters where the fear will start to rise up and when it's coming up we don't have to try to fix it or offer advice that's why in expression sessions we really have those guidelines of no people pleasing no private thoughts because we want that emotion to come up we want there to be a permission for that we want there to be an openness to that and acceptance and so it's encouraged and I think another reason why people don't do it is because they fear the volatility of that emotion the intensity of it and also underneath that the disrejection like if I let this up then I'll surely be rejected so all those factors are around allowing that to come up and when I went to China for example I go to these countries where there's a strong systematic denial and repression mechanism it's like they just come together with me in that presence of openness and acceptance and it just comes up like a geyser or a volcano and they also feel how valuable this is like they intuitively know this is going to be really important for me to heal, to let it up so I did have my last time in China I ended up doing a dance party and you should have seen those people dancing they were all over the place they were so excited to have that opportunity so you're a great healer man you're really a transformation on the planet I want to remind people that we're celebrating your new book which is coming out within a few days called this moment is your miracle with a wonderful subtitle spiritual tools to transcend fear and experience the power of the present moment so goodness David anything else I'd like to share before we close I need to tell people that I fell in love with you I discovered your YouTube's a while back and I used to I've been doing the course for many years and the clarity and simplicity and humility and grace that you exude and your teachings really won me so I still do sometimes but for a long time I listened to your YouTube's every night before I went to bed and I just found it very soothing it was a lovely way to end the day and kind of go off it was much better than watching a horror movie thank you very much so I really want to honor you for the contribution you've made to me and so many other people it's just a world class teacher so what else anything else you want to share before we close what a spirit guiding you to tell folks who are listening well I just so much enjoy this encounter with you I have to say I have enjoyed your books but meeting you there I think it was at the conference in San Francisco was such a delight I felt such a deep connection I feel your humor is so healing and so important in a world where often spiritual writings are quite serious they don't have that light touch with them and to me that light touch is so important and I have to say too for those who are going to look at the book that Alan wrote the forward and I'm just so honored that you would write a forward for this book because I feel you are just very highly respected and I can just feel your heart that's with those watching those YouTubes in our meeting I could just feel your heart I could feel that connection and to me that's the most important thing that heart-to-heart connection the rest is just words you know but it's so beautiful to have someone who has such a beautiful heart and I'm really honored that we share this journey together as brothers opening to this love thank you my brother I sure love you so deeply thank you so so much is there anything else going on in your service world besides the books that you like people know about and new programs or they kind of lay in love like people to know about well this year is quite an amazing year we have had a movie a documentary going in the community that was filmed at one of our month-long mystery schools and it's called take me home and it's going to be coming out this year and that is amazing because it doesn't so much focus on the verbiage of the teachings but it's through just like a well-crafted movie that you can feel with the scenery, with the images it takes you right in and you cry and your heart opens so I'm excited about that that take me home my friend Francis is directed that and we've had a lot of the community involved in that this book this moment is your miracle we not only are it's coming out on February 2nd here very quickly but it's we're going to be sharing about it and Jenny and Greg who are in the studio are going to be traveling around and I'm going to do a couple of appearances once one's up in Oakland Berkeley, Berkeley is such a great area for expensive thinking up there and then down in Del Mar a little bit north of San Diego so that's exciting and then also we have Center this year opening up on the island of Mallorca and the Mediterranean it's just gorgeous over there and we're just excited to have a like a base a permanent base over there in Europe where we can just share and shine and have devotionals and and continue on the work we're doing so there's a lot cooking here in 2019 and people can find you mostly at DavidHoffmeister.com or is there another web edition yeah that's pretty much the main portal to find me and then there's lots of other YouTube and Spreaker and any other ways phenomenal YouTube description like 230,000 I was so impressed it's like people find you and love you and keep watching you turn your friends on to you, hallelujah yeah but they're having the same experience where I did two or three years ago I did a retreat at our monastery Living Miracles monastery and I just asked the people I said how did you get here and like 90% of the people said through YouTube and I said amazing that is that the technology is really being used by the Holy Spirit you know I think you're so personable and so amiable that your essence comes through in the YouTube people see your face and see your smile and see your joyful creature they see you laughing they hear your stories it's such a wonderful venue to connect with it I mean if anything prove that we're not limited to our bodies it's this technology where our spirit is imbued in the technology and we're connecting with each other's spirits even if our bodies run out of the side of the planet so I mean what a great teaching that is yeah it is it's kind of a time to be alive you know where even though our title was living in times where external world events seem to be cuckoo but but actually the flip side is it's with the technology that you just described it's kind of a wonderful way to experience each other it's a big acceleration isn't it yeah yeah I think it is I may mention briefly I'm starting my own foray into weaponized course of miracles and I'll be doing a monthly webinar on the course of miracles so if people want to find me it's at alancommon.com if I may and they can sign up for my monthly webinar oh that's beautiful would you like to close this out with a prayer or anything that you think would be appropriate to tie this up Mr. David yes spirit thank you for coming into our hearts thank you for shining through us radiating through us may we always remember our need for you beloved spirit because us to let go of our attachments and our worries and concerns we need to follow you and we are here for you we say yes when you call to us amen thank you David half-master for being one of the most blessed lights on the planet that I know and I wish you well in every dimension and I wish everyone who touches you through your teaching the highest blessings we are very grace to have you on the planet thank you alan love you love you wow hello hello