 Welcome back to The Breakfast Here on Plus TV Africa, we're moving into our first major conversation for today and of course it's a Friday, so we have Wale Scott joining us and we're going to be speaking about something we had mentioned a couple of days ago, Chioma Ajunwa, who initially of course came out to make claims that the federal government had abandoned her and all those old promises that had been made to her after she won the Olympic gold medal had not been fulfilled, the legacy government has taken that upon itself and of course fulfilled some of those promises, so we're going to be talking extensively not just about her now, but about rewarding sports and rewarding Nigerian sportsmen and women. Good morning Wale Scott. Good morning. So it's good news I guess, it's something that should be celebrated, she finally has been able to get the thing that she should have gotten more than 20 years ago, it's a three bedroom apartment, so are you among those who think that we should celebrate with her? Yeah, I'm not popping champagne right now, I'm not, but do you know how many people have been, I was supposed to have one of the Atlanta 96 gold medalists in Atlanta on the show today, he couldn't make it, but he hasn't received anything yet and I can count, not with my fingers and my toes I can draw a long list of people who have been promised, it's unfortunate that Nigeria sees the fact that the only opium, the only high that Nigerians have is sports, so the politicians tend to use it as leverage for them to actually get there eventually, so when these people win things, everybody's happy, we're all popping champagne and then they make them promises and they never ever, I know a coach, his name is Paul Hamilton, I think I said it here before, his name is Paul Hamilton and I used to take him newspapers, he won something then with order 17 then, he was made promises, he had a can sign in his first leg, his left leg, so he was caught off and the second leg too was caught off and he eventually died and his wife is still hustling every day to Abuja Lagos, trying to get the promises made, Chioma and Jewa are very happy, at least the government for some reason, I'm looking like we made you a promise, we're giving you, but Chioma and Jewa is just one out of millions of Nigerians who have been promised, I know for one that a particular British footballer, his name is Paul Gascoigne, they call him Gaza, when Gaza had a drinking problem, he was an alcoholic and there was a fund arranged for footballers in case they had problems and everything and it was from the funds they were taking the money from to actually, after retirement, take care of Gaza, you know and Gaza is doing very well right now and Chioma and Jewa, I'm happy for her, yes, but what about the other ones? So let me understand where you're going, should the love and the energy that you're expecting, should it be to every single Nigerian sports person or are there certain heroes that Nigeria should just never forget because anybody can compete in the Olympics and not win any medal, they would still be able to call themselves Nigerian sportsmen or women, so do you want this attention to every single sportsman or woman who has represented Nigeria or are you just expecting that there are certain heroes of Nigerian sports that should never be forgotten? Don't get me wrong, I'm going to say again, I believe our Nigerian sportsmen, African sportsmen are very wasteful, I agree and most of them don't have any reason to be begging anyone for anything right now. What do you mean when you say they are very wasteful? They are very wasteful because I remember a particular, I won't call any names, because I don't get my name, you might not. I know a particular footballer at a point who is not doing very well right now who actually bought a hero play. Yeah, bought a jet at some point, yes. At a point and then he had to say they are very wasteful. I know a particular Nigerian footballer now who is a personal person of mine who actually wants to buy vintage cars. I remember that when Austin, J.G. or Kocha went to a second tier team in the English Premier League, the footballers, his colleagues in its club said they had never seen a Bentley in their car park before. That's how wasteful we are. Other colleagues didn't think they had any reason to buy a car that big, but our guys feel they have to buy it. Yes, well, you see, when you come to that, Osirode, if in a normal society, in a normal climb, if our sportsmen and women don't have problems and we don't have poverty in the land, we won't have to be talking about helping them and giving them houses and everything really. The person I would have called on the show today has been promised a house since 1996. He was the goalkeeper and he hasn't cut his house yet or anything yet, and he will come on the show very soon, probably next Friday, and tell us about how much he has spent on going to and fro to try and get his house. So, Wally Scott, should the conversation be about the promises that government officials make to sportsmen that they feel to fulfill or just generally about their welfare? Because there seem like two different things here. If the person of Chiang Mai Jun was promised a house, like other people who won, and she didn't get it, that's a different issue. Then, of course, we know that as an issue of, you know, underfunding the fact that they're not being taken care of, they're sick and there's nobody to take care of them, that issue exists. But looking at this particular issue of being promised and, you know, the government re-nerges on that promise, really, where do you think this all comes from? Because in particular Chiang Mai Jun was case, she says the military governor says it's because she's not from Lagos. So, for other, you know, yes, that's exactly what it is. Yeah, I don't know. So, for other people who have been promised and they didn't get anything, what has been the reason behind that? I don't know. Jokingly, this is, I'm not here with us now. When we're younger, we say you make promises to girls, or girls make promises to guys in the heat of the moment. So, I think the politicians tend to make these promises in the heat of the moment, in the celebration period, you know, just say things they probably don't have plans to do. This Chiang Mai Jun was gifts, as happy as we the sports family are, that she's gotten gifts finally. She wasn't promised this gift like this year, not by these governments. Some people in this government now who are giving Chiang Mai this, we are probably in secondary school, but she was promised this, you know. And so, we're happy she's getting it. But what we're trying to say is that, yes, it's easy, it's convenient, in the heat of the moment, in the midst of a celebration, to make promises. Our politicians just must learn. So, Nigerians are beginning to understand that sports is the only opium that the country has. There's also entertainment, even though sports isn't. Well, yeah, but you see, people, it's easy for sports to actually, for you to use sports to actually get people. That's why you find out that it's convenient for the average politician across the world, not only Nigeria, across the world, to actually, after getting a TV station, the next thing they want is to get a football club. Yeah, but it's cool, he had AC Milan, he had the biggest TV, you know, so it's easy. And so, in the course of us doing well, we tend to make promises. And what I'm begging is that, thank you very much for Chiang Mai and Juwan. I hope the governments can actually do more for other sportsmen who have made promises. And then in the future, don't make them promises anymore. Because, yes, don't make them promises anymore. I would also say, I'm happy with the way that, yes, she might be complaining today, or eventually she's going to the house, but I'm happy with the journey that her life has also been on. She basically didn't, after the Olympics, go back and go home and sleep. She went back to the Nigerian police force. She looks really, really good and really, really fit as a police officer there. But I would also ask something. I don't know if American or British or Australian or Jamaican athletes win these awards and hope that they get houses back at home. Should we also remember that you won these awards, you won these medals, and that should be the goal, the pride in winning, not necessarily because of the house that you might get, or the $3 million that your government might give you. So the reason behind competing in these sporting events, the reason behind winning the four by 100 meters, we also don't have a sports environment where you can get endorsements, sadly. Well, I said it earlier that, unfortunately. Yeah, so I just wanted to throw that in. I don't think, you know, any of these, let's say in Africa, I don't think it, you know, Sammy Kufour or any of all these people who have done phenomenally well for sports in their countries are waiting for their government to give them houses or give them $5 million in their cash. There is the possibility of them also getting endorsements that keep them going for a long time. There's possibility of, I mean, you see, boats has numerous endorsements. Israel at this point, the box has numerous endorsements also. So those should be, I believe, the things that, you know, our athletes should start looking, you know, to do and not winning medals and coming down. Just to keep in that, I don't think that, you know, our very important sportsman competes to, of course, get houses. This is a promise that was made to her, right? I think to many, to many of them. But you see, that question only vindicates me now, because like I said earlier, you were asking what I mean, and I'm like, they are very wasteful. But I also said earlier that in St. Clines, Nigeria, sorry, it's not St. Clines, there's power in the land. And these people, in other countries, it's enough to put that medal on your shelf and say, I've got this from my country, you know. But here, we want a little more. People are poor, you know, really, really. I told you I was somebody on Paul Hamilton a few minutes ago, and I said, I know what he went through. He was really, when you say the word poor, he was really poor. And this was a guy who actually played for Nigeria, coached him on the 17th at a point, and he died like that. But and his wife was still going to and flew to Abu Dhabi. She hasn't gotten the money till now. You know, the way I'm going through isn't, they are very wasteful first off. And then secondly, I said it on this show a few weeks ago, I have noticed something. I don't know if it's only me, I've noticed something. Most times in the super egos, Nigeria super egos, as the case study now, the only guys who put in, they are all in all in their game, who do everything to make sure we try and win our games for the super egos and the guys who grew up abroad. There's this thing about playing for your country when you grow up abroad. In Nigeria here, it's about the monetary gains. See, that's why it's totally different from from Chihuahua or for her because other people, you know, began to get Jewish citizenship. But she said that it was the, it was through the Nigerian police force that she got that opportunity to represent Nigeria. And she was going to come back and represent the country. So another question I wanted to ask you about this is, if we're talking about how sportsmen are poor in Nigeria, how they finish playing, represent their country in the highest level. And with money. And they come back. I don't, I don't think I'll say it. I will not exactly agree with the wasting money because the issue is not about their spending habits. So they have money management really. So to be honest, it's this. Everybody end points if you are poor. Are you going to tell him how to spend his money? Exactly. If you make so much money and you are poor at the end of the day, can't we question the money management? What I'm trying to say is this, right? Yeah, that's the best of them. It happened to Paul. That's what he mentioned. I mean, it's just like that presenter on ASD, we could ask him that why didn't he manage his money when he paid him so many months ago? You know, my issue here is, or my question is, my question to you, Mr. Wally Scott, is this, if we're talking about how sportsmen are poor in Nigeria, then should we begin to have a orientation to say, sports is not exactly a full-time career. I shouldn't be looked as a full-time career. You should be a sportsman and have your business. You should be a sportsman and me, the civil service. Should that be the direction because sports cannot pay your bills? Now, they are two footballers. I'll use their, I'll call their names. Shegwonekbami and Aduki Amislimaka. Aduki is a barrister, the lawyer. Shegwone is being very well as an accountant right now. And they've always consistently told the younger ones, guys, don't waste your money. At least while you are playing football, try and look for a career on the side. Not everyone will be as lucky as George Pongwe, who became Liberian president. Not everybody will be as lucky as that. You know, so make sports will only last for a while. You can't be as lucky as Cristiano Ronaldo, who is not a speaker 35, or as Lionel Metzi, who is at 34 and is still doing so well. We can't all be that lucky. You know, and the truth be said, yes, sports is not a full-time career. And I think what sportsmen and women should do now is to look at the fact that Aduki Amislimaka, Shegwonekbami, we've got other people like, see, I have two people all the time. Gary Neville, Paul Neville, Phil Neville and the rest of them, who are doing analysis today, are hustlers. If they had a career, they wouldn't have time to be hustling. Go to God and present one for one person. But Shegwonekbami understood, we can't all be like that. Shegwonekbami understood that, listen, I am a policewoman. First of all, before I became an athlete, and if all is said and done and I finish this career, which will end as soon as possible, I will go back to be a policewoman. Shegwonekbami, in case most of us do not know, was actually given a medal or something by the police force for arresting some crime syndicates that we've been looking for a while. You understand, this is not in athletics now, this is a career. She's an assistant commissioner of police. She was actually given kudos by the police force for arresting a crime syndicate. And I'm sure these are the things that the government were seeing and seeing. This fact, the fact that this girl did so well for us, she's gone back to her job and she's doing well on her job. Do you understand? So we need to... We can't all be like that. Basically, you're saying that we need to begin to change the conversation from what it is now, because you find young Nigerians, young boys, who, you know, they pick either school or sports. So we have to begin to change that narrative that it's not school or sports. It's you play your sports, you go to school, you build a career, because sports can only last you a while. It may not even be school, Zef. It may not even be school, at least while you are doing whatever sports you are doing. Maybe you are a barber on the side or you are a fashion designer or something. You know, so there's always... Just have a plan B. There must be... See, every in life, I think, if you are watching this show right now, what we should be learning now is let's leave sports out of it. Let's leave our jobs out of it. Let's all understand that our jobs will never pay enough for our bills. Never. They have to be exciting. They have to be. And Kiyoma Ajuwan, one of the very few sharp ones who realized that, listen, I won't leave my job. I know a footballer called Icadia. That's his name. He was a sergeant in the police force. Went to play football, did his best. The whole world knows him. We all know him. Did he come back to the police force again? I think it also tells of Kiyoma Ajuwan's humility, because, you know, just like you mentioned, the other one didn't come back. He didn't come back to his job. She didn't say, oh, why would I come back there? I'm above all that. But she came back to her roots and she's still in the police force. And we know someone who died recently, too. Sunday Bada. He was a sprinter like Kiyoma Ajuwan. He used to be with the emigrations. After running, I'm making so much plenty, plenty names and everything. Did he go back to work? Those are their personal decisions, you know. Exactly. She's just lucky. She made the right decision. Yeah, you know, but it doesn't mean that Pao Icadia is unlucky. I didn't say that. Nobody knows where he is. If he decides, I'm not going to go back to the police force, because I don't like being there in the first place. We've, the Nandja Police was not the best place. Do you realize that this house that Kiyoma Ajuwan was a police officer? Yes. You need to hurry. Kiyoma, that Kiyoma Ajuwan just got down. He goes beyond the house. We are celebrating her today because she's done well for Nigeria. Almost like a redemption. We're actually forgetting the house. The house is even there. We're just remembering Kiyoma Ajuwan. Oh, and my daughter would ask me last night and I was like, Daddy, who is Kiyoma Ajuwan? And it took me like 15 minutes to explain what she had done for us and all that. Would pride. So he goes beyond the house now. Also, we know that even still as far back as 2013, in the Tunisia 94 team, we're begging the Nigerian government to fulfill promises of houses. You know, also, as they announced that Kiyoma Ajuwan would be getting a three bedroom flat at the Raj Fashala House in the state of Nipori, they announced that they would also be getting houses. So this is great news for them too. Yes, it is. I think it's good. That this thing goes beyond today. Now, more people will want to get involved in sports because they will be like, well, they were promised it took a while, but now they are definitely doing it. Maybe this will continue. I think the best thing that can happen to one individual ever in the world, I think the feeling is standing there and saying, this is Osaroges and this is from Nigeria, the winner. I think that's about it. And these guys actually go there where our green, white, green, whether they win or do well is not important to me. Like Osaroges rightly mentioned, if you want to represent, give them something, give along or something. If you don't want to give, don't give. But Tunisia team was fantastic and I think that they deserve this. Some of them don't even need the houses anymore. At least they can boastfully tell their children or grandchildren, I've got this house, I'm giving you this house because I did something for Nigeria. That's also very, very important. It puts in lots of pride into the country. I know a few friends who actually are Nigerians who have become Americans now and they say, God bless America with so much pride. And I want a situation where our grandchildren, even if we're not here anymore, can actually tell them, my daddy got this house because he played football for Nigeria. I think that's a good thing. But I think we should also, I think one thing that I think we've mentioned already is using sports as a poverty alleviation program, which it doesn't necessarily have to be all the time. There's too many Nigerians who go into sports simply because of poverty. And that's why people like Didio Droba, of Kote War, Samuel Atofis of Cameroon have academics, but they most importantly have academics that have schools. And Samuel Atofis said last week or two weeks ago that if you don't pass in class, you don't get to remain in this school. You're not here for football alone. Yes, football is the major contention, but you must pass in class. And Droba is doing the same thing too. Atofis is doing the same thing too in Cameroon. Librarian presidents, George Ponguer, who's sitting in Liberia. So I think we, some people are getting it right now. They actually, they are footballers. They make their money from football, but they are building academies. They have schools. Sheikh Wadebami has the same in Nigeria here in the United States. Same thing. If you don't do it in class, you don't play football or you leave the school. So I think they realize that, listen, there's life after football. There's life after sports. So while you are going to school, you also play football. So when football ends, and Sheikh Wadebami will always tell you, listen, I played football at the highest level for Nigeria. He didn't get to go to the World Cup here, but he played at Nations Cup and everything and he did very well. But his accountant is doing quite well now. And he's at an academy that says, go to school and play football. So poverty alleviation is removed from this conversation now. These guys are actually building schools not only for football, but for schooling too. And many won't exactly agree with that sports as a poverty alleviation scheme idea. No, many won't. No, no, I'm coming because are you trying to say someone who is poor and has a passion for sports should, I mean, what really is a passion? No, we have a chika, who is a taekwondoist who has gone abroad to win medals for all. I think he has gone bronze before. And every training he went through was from his own pocket and his fellow spokers who was a minister there. But that's not the issue. The issue is that I know a lot of Nigerians. I am a sports presenter. I am a sports reporter. I'm a journalist. I know a lot of guys out there. This morning, go to Aegee, go to Abu Lieba, go to Ikeja, go to Yanoworu, on that bridge right now. And there are boys who are training every day, hoping for a scout to come their way and that's their meal ticket. And I know it's boys too. Who their parents, women, their mothers will give them food and say, eat now, relax more. I'm going to Abu Lieba. But what is wrong with that? I'm sorry, what is wrong with that? It's for what's the alleviation now? It's their way out. The question is, can they play? Where? That's the question. I'm not a coach. I won't lie. If they can play and they're poor, I mean, it doesn't... So no one is doubting the fact that Nigerians are bruised with football. They don't do it in a way. It doesn't matter whether you're poor or rich. If you can play, play. Yes, but what is the motivation behind playing? It's not because you have a passion for it. No! It is side by side with the fact that you need to give your family out of poverty. Just play. That's why we have so many people who are 27 and have their ages. Let me tell you a story. I just mentioned Julio Sagaowa. Yes. He had been in the Nigerian police force. Eventually, I think he was 18 years when he played for Nigeria. That's after 20 years of being there. Let me tell you a story. Keleshi Ina chose father. He looked for scouts. He was quite... He was doing well. He looked for scouts to come and watch his son play. They watched Keleshi play. Keleshi was good then. Nice. He's better than... He was good then. And then while they were watching Keleshi play, they saw Dili Alampasu, the goalkeeper. Who sold pure water then? Who sold pure water then? Saw him and this guy's a good goalkeeper too. Alampasu's luck. You know? So every mother, every young footballer in Iainawuru right now, is looking for that payday. Yes, they have the passion for it. Yes, they can play football. We're built to play football. But most importantly... Bread. The bread. I mean, that's the reason why you're wearing this entire and 68 this morning bread. Don't you agree? But it's all right. It's all right. I think the moral lessons we can take from this is sportsmen shouldn't rely on just sports. Thank you. And the Nigerian government should do better. Yes, and if you make promises... And thank you very much to the governments for... Yes, thanks to the government. But then, don't make promises and then just re-nerge it. In the heat of the moment... If you make promises, go ahead and fulfill it. To Asu, to Juson, to all of them. If Nigerian government promises you anything... We're talking sports again. All right. I'm just saying. I'm just saying because we're talking about these same field promises, the reason Asu might be going back astray because of field promises. Yeah. That's why doctors are threat instructors. Exactly. In the heat of the moment... These people just make promises. All right. Anyway, we're still going to say that big thanks to the Lagos State government. Yes, thank you very much. The people in person, especially of Governor Babajideso... Who's from this? Who's 56 now? Happy to hear this. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And yes, to all the media people, pressmen who put pressure... Because remember we've been talking about this particular issue, especially when she granted that interview to a radio station. That's where the story all kicked off. And it's a happy ending now. Yes. All right. We'll take a break here and we'll be right back to stay with us.