 Good morning. You're with the Vermont House Government Operations Committee. In the interim between yesterday's conversation about 183 and today, I met with Michelle and we tried to look at what we'd heard for testimony and committee about the make-up and duties of this higher-end sexual violence prevention council. I know I'm not getting that name right. What I'm putting on the table here and what Michelle's going to run us through is what I think we heard, including adding in some standard GOV-OPS best practices language about sunsetting this council after a number of years so that we don't come back in 20 years and find that the council's still on the books but they stopped meeting sometime in the early 20s. So Michelle, thank you so much. We all have the document on our secondary devices and so we'll be able to stay and I'll be able to see hands raised and all of that. So why don't you take us through what we have done to change the intercollegiate sexual violence prevention council? I can't hear you. Sorry about that. So you should be working off of DRAP 2.1 dated today this morning at 9.25 so I'm going to move straight to page six for the council language and you'll recall that in the membership as introduced there was a Title IX coordinator from each institute of higher learning appointed by the Vermont State Colleges and so this has been reworked based on the witness testimony and the committee discussion that it would be a Title IX coordinator and a campus-based prevention education coordinator from an institution of higher learning appointed by the chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges and then it would be those same two type of appointments for the University of Vermont and the Association of Vermont Independent Colleges as well. Next change is top of page seven. Hold on just a second. I've got a hand raised. Mark Higley go ahead. Thank you Madam Chair. I also remember and would it be easy enough to include in that a Title IX coordinator and his or her designate? I know that was mentioned as far as you know when they were talking about having one from each college but should that still be in the air possibly? If they if they can I know it's quarterly now we're quarterly meetings but is that is that something that we should include? So we have what we have is is the campus-based prevention and education coordinator but the Title IX coordinator has a different set of duties I guess and and it makes me worry that if we if we leave it open to them to to designate that we may not be getting the right person who's really in the thick of these things but I don't know Michelle do you have a sense of whether there's a standard for allowing a designee were there designees allowed in the previous iteration of this council? There were not. I mean you you can do whatever you want I would just say that I I haven't seen where you have an appointing authority appoint someone and then whoever they appoint then gets to appoint someone. Do you know what I mean? So it's so sometimes we'll say you know the defender general or his or her designee or something you know like that so you kind of have one opportunity to transfer to a different person this is kind of two layers there um you could do that but I it's not uh something I've I've seen but and I think possibly because there is now you know one for the Fermat State colleges that that that would help I think so okay yep fine. Yeah we can hope that the Vermont State colleges can do a little huddle ahead of time and say you know which of us which of our Title IX coordinators has the capacity to be involved in this. John Gannon we need you to unmute. I know in B1 we have the appointment by the Chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges but in B2 and B3 we don't identify the individual making the appointment. Should it be the President of the University of Vermont making the appointment in B2 and probably I'd have to check to see who's in charge of the Association of Vermont Independent Colleges probably the Executive Director. I'm guessing on that. Yeah that's interesting Michelle do you have any thoughts on that? Makes make sense. Yeah if anybody has aligned to the Independent Colleges and could find that out that would just that'd be great just in the sense of I'm uh after we finish up I've got to incorporate all these into the Judiciary Amendment and then circle back with them so they can vote it um but if if anybody knows who the contact is and can just shoot them a quick email or just something like that would be great. Typically when we're in committee when people utter a question like that out loud there's a certain Vice Chair of this committee who just sort of makes these things happen so let's give it a minute and continue on and I bet we'll uh if it will come up with any. Working on it. I seem to remember that so okay that's great um so page seven subdivision six so in the bill is introduced there are two college students appointed by the Center for Crime Victim Services on there you wanted to designate that one of those students should have lived experience as a sexual violence survivor and one should represent a campus-based racial justice organization. Any questions on that committee? All right. Next one is on subdivision nine with respect to the prosecutor and you wanted to add that the prosecutor has to have experience in prosecuting sexual violence cases and uh and have the attorney general be the appointing authority. Yeah I think that that was um that was a uh suggestion that Rory Tebow had made that it didn't it didn't he didn't worry about who the appointing entity was that they have a good collaboration between the criminal division at the attorney general's office and the state's attorney and that they would be able to find the right person uh Rob Leclerc. Can we back up just a quick sec to that the position that somebody's going to be a survivor of sexual assault? That seems like an awful hard question to ask somebody. Well the Center for Crime Victim Services probably already has contact with victims of crime. Okay but is there I mean is there anything that's going to make that person stand out that they're there because they're representing that position for that reason? I understand the intent behind it and that's not the issue I have it's like how do you do that? It has been my experience that victims of sexual assault have a wide range of reactions and abilities to step up and advocate afterward and that many I have met personally many victims of sexual assault who uh who really want to step up and to get involved in activities that can prevent future sexual violence and so um you know if we were looking for 20 appointees who all were victims of sexual violence I might worry that we'd have trouble recruiting but um but if we're looking for one I would guess there will be a scramble and um Michelle. I just wanted to share so I did present just in draft form these recommendations to Judiciary this morning letting them know that they weren't final and that you would be talking about them later this morning and uh and actually one of the Judiciary committee members asked that same question and Selena Colburn was on the committee that issued the report that this proposal is based on and she said that there were three survivor appointees on that committee and she said they uh it was gonna say fortunately unfortunately had a um did not have any problem finding uh people who wanted to serve in that role. Okay that's fine I just yeah. John Gannon. Just going back to the Independent College things um President. President okay thank you. That didn't even take till we got through the end of our draft. Thank you John. So the next one is uh on subdivision C2 so line 17 and 18 and my understanding is that there was concern uh from some of the witnesses about the use of climate survey and so this is just tweets the language a little bit so that um the council is responsible for an annual review of trends and aggregate data collected by the institutions of higher learning regarding sexual violence on campus. Look good folks. Next change is on page eight there's a new subdivision F4 uh indicating that the council is to meet quarterly. Go ahead Mark. So on the same page go up to line one and I can't remember if it was Wendy from UVM or not but and maybe you folks can help me out with that but uh there was a concern about using the word's best practices. Does anybody remember that and what those uh what they could possibly use instead of that? Yeah I remember uh Wendy expressing some concern about that uh that phrase and the implication that that phrase would um would trigger a look outside of the state of Vermont to look at national experts and I have to say if we don't have a Title IX coordinator in this state who is looking at national best practices um releases or or seminars or workshops on a regular basis then I would hope that this would prompt that activity to happen more regularly but I suspect that we have Title IX coordinators who are already um looking at national organizations for uh for resources on best practices. No I agree I couldn't think of uh I don't know if she used something like educational or whatever but I think yeah best practices clarifies it better. And Michelle best practices doesn't doesn't necessarily have a specific um level of expectation right I mean it's it's sort of a catch all term meaning look around and see who's doing the best job. Exactly and we do use it frequently in drafting which is exactly the what what you said which is to see you know kind of do a survey look who's what what folks are doing what's the latest information on the efficacy of strategies and and and and to and to consider those best practices. Thanks for catching that Mark. And then uh the last one is on page nine and this is a repeal of that section in seven years so that you can take a look at it and see whether or not people still think it's valuable. All right any questions from committee members on the language that we're putting in front I'll give you a moment to just review any notes that you might have taken yesterday if you heard something that you wonder if it should be reflected here. Okay I'm not seeing anybody diving in um shall we do a formal committee vote or shall we do a straw poll folks um let's vote it. All right so how this is a vote on a recommendation uh we don't actually have possession of the bill but this is recommendation on um section is it section the entirety of sections five and six I think if I'm reading that correctly yeah recommendation on sections five and six of h183 so move graph 2.1 super when you're ready how nobody's going to answer you because they can't hear you roll call shall we get in again and yes Marike yes like Claire yes Cooper yes Colston yes Anthony yes Behobsky yes Lufay yes Higley yes McCarthy yes Copeland yes 11 00 great Michelle is it your understanding that the Judiciary Committee would like one of us to come and talk with them about it or do you feel like because you presented the draft form of it that um I mean I'm happy to make myself available when they come back to it this afternoon but um I don't know if you know I'm sure they'd always love to see you but I I don't I don't think it's necessary when I went through the what you had for recommendations which are you know you didn't change anything uh they seem comfortable with everything there weren't any particular concerns or okay thing like that with that so I will contact Madam Chair of the Judiciary Committee and let her know that I'm happy to join if she needs me to and otherwise we will keep our nose to the grindstone here in committee and and get our work done thank you Michelle for for helping with this project and all right we'll see you soon all right I'm sure you will after crossover I'm working on right over there in the Senate I hear there's some things coming our way this can be fun right okay thanks have a nice weekend bye um so committee we have uh we have three other issues that we need to take up this afternoon um it was I detecting in committee discussion earlier that maybe there's an appetite to see if we can start at 12 30 and be done earlier as opposed to waiting until one at this point okay I agree just I was curious if there's anything ready to go that we could do right now before we break for lunch but maybe not well it's entirely possible that that it's I mean the product is ready to go it's whether we have um ledge council ready to go so perhaps Andrea could send an email to Ameron and Tucker to see if either of them is available now and or at 12 30 so mark no I guess uh you know as as far as the youth council goes um I'd really like to be able to support this um and I think there's there's you know one little addition that that I had mentioned uh in uh when we were taking testimony from folks that they didn't seem to object to and that would be and that would be you know a uh F section which would include Vermont traditions and conservation if I can just you know bring that out now to maybe move things along let people think about it but again it's something I did mention during testimony and and I'd like to see that see that in there at least for consideration so orient me again are you talking about um adding a subcommittee to the list of subcommittees that the students presented to us right it's under the standing committees so there's there's already an a b c d e this would be f okay as the students let me just see if I can understand a little bit more about how we might accomplish this as the students were describing it I thought I heard them saying that they had had a uh a discussion over a number of meetings this past summer um and they had had a whole bunch of ideas for subcommittees on their list and they had narrowed it down to these top five and so you know I guess before we before we prescribe to them the addition of another subcommittee I guess I would wonder if if there's a way that the student led organizing could weigh in on where that where those concepts fell in the in the voting that they already did um or I guess I would conversely ask what happens if the membership of the council uh self-selects and nobody selects to go in the that subcommittee because it wasn't something that was that that the youth felt was important I don't know um so I guess well that's well that's where I have a concern I think that it is important to some youth may not have got on their list but uh you know I I think it's a simple enough ask uh if if we're looking for uh use you know input into some of these issues that for me is a big one so um and I can I can go on about my other concerns but you know again we don't have the time right now but that's something for me if you want me to to sign on and come out with this you know a unanimous vote or whatever uh that's a pretty simple change in my mind yeah and I'm just trying to figure out if there's a way that we can um respect your suggestion but also respect the the process that the youth used in in bringing this proposal to us um so I well this is this is what we're here for yeah why why should they as students bring up forward a proposal when uh other bills come before us and we make changes so again I I have no concern with that Delilah you know I mentioned it in testimony Delilah didn't have a problem with it so I don't I don't see what the hesitation is but again looks like there's a lot of hands up yes Tanya Vihosky's next um I do have way in here although my head went up for a different issue I think um I hear what you're saying Madam Chair and I also hear what you're saying Representative Higley and what I recall Delilah saying is that while she personally agreed the democratic process they went through just that didn't rise to the surface and I I feel if we are putting something out to hear youth concerns telling them what their concerns should be sort of flies in the face of that so I that gives me pause I also have a different thing but I want to let others on this issue go first okay leave your hand up uh Sam LaFave thank you Madam Chair I also out go what Representative Higley is saying um I feel that we have legislation come before us all the time and there's changes made um and this is again um just an ask that we're having um and I'd also if we're looking at it like to see what they did go on to see if this was even an option because it might not have risen to the top because it might not have been considered and if it is considered that application goes out and other children could see that this is an option for something for them to weigh in on that might inquire new applications um so that that's my two cents thank you very much right who's next on my list Bob Hooper thank you Madam Chair um it's stuck in my mind and I could be an error that uh during questioning that the students said they had a huge range of things and that was one of the things but it got very little interest from the group um I could of course be wrong I see Howell's head shaking and he's always right so but I mean I certainly would not object to not giving something specific as in a you will do this but maybe a general piece of language that says such other subjects as the group may get involved in if it doesn't increase the funding or anything like that that substantially changes I mean halfway through the bill who knows but at this point I don't agree with the argument on this particular case that we change things all the time because this is sort of a different source coming forward this is a request I view this this thing as sort of a boys or girls state thing on a statewide level where we're engendering people to gain skills and get their sea legs under them for sitting in these chairs someday and that's not a bad thing no Peter Anthony uh maybe uh any of you folks can go back to the list of standing committees I'm trying to find a middle ground here um I worried at the time that the list was generated that the number that were already there began to be large relative to the number of participants already never mind the ad hoc committees that were provided for so I guess I'm searching for a way to put environmental conservation or environmental values or land conservation or some phrase like that and tuck that into one of the uh existing proposed standing committees as a way to to get us through um Mark's issue uh because I think it is uh universally it is substantially held by adults and youths that Vermonters care very much about their place in the natural world which is why I proposed having one person from every county I figured that was a way to sort of get our arms around the diversity amongst the youth of Vermont I'm sorry I didn't go it didn't go far enough to satisfy Mark but that was the intent other discussion on this this question um we don't need to we don't need to to necessarily settle on a course of action at this moment but I would like us to discuss this and other things um so that we can hopefully take a look at a at a final draft later um Mike Marwicki sure I appreciate the the concerns shared here and uh I will come down again on this is where the students came from uh if we're going to start imposing what we want in this it stops being student led and the idea behind this is that this is going to be student led and it's up to us to listen to them rather than the other way so uh I think if things come up in an organic fashion then uh I'm not going to get in the way of them um but in this instance I think if we open the door to start imposing what we want into this becomes a very different uh very different bill uh Hal Colston uh thank you madam chair um I don't know I feel that uh the top of page five uh section c uh you know gather input from Vermont use through surveys or polls I mean it seems to me as this thing evolves if that becomes a concern or uh a need that that could be borne out from their process of of hearing from their youth so um I I think that could allow some flexibility and and I agree with others that I don't think this is the right approach to impose our adult thinking on on their their their vision their goals to to have voiced an agency other committee discussion on this all right um Tanya Vihovsky thank you I'm wondering um in that subsection see if a simple addition of gathering input from Vermont youth to inform subcommittees if if that sort of gets at that we're going to continue to gather the information and if this arises to the surface we'll add a subcommittee not we but they if there's a place in there to really indicate that that that will be a process to name and build those subcommittees we could direct them to to reevaluate their subcommittees based on the input from youth surveys or polls um if that would help any other committee discussion on this topic before we shift gears to 154 Tanya was your hand up on a different part of the bill from earlier I was up on 154 okay um all right so let's keep chewing on this let's look for a way that we can try to try to thread this needle here of of really asking them to be open to to youth who have focus and place value on Vermont traditions and traditional activities and see if we can find a way to reflect that in this