 Nigerians react to state-invent accredited from the governor of Kaduna State, Governor El Rufai, sustaining Muslim-Muslim tickets beyond 20 years, and House of Reps led fraud in unveiling of Nigeria Air and Demand Prosecution. This is Post-Politics, and I am very honored for it. Former Kaduna State Governor Nasser El Rufai has been caught in a video saying that the Muslim-Muslim ticket must be sustained beyond 20 years in the state. In a viral video, El Rufai was addressing a group of Islamic scholars, and he told him that he nominated a fellow Muslim as running mate in 2019 because he knew they would win without the vote of Christians in the state. For joining us to discuss this is Reverend Joseph Hayab, he is the chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria Kaduna State. Thank you so much Reverend Hayab for joining us and good evening. Thank you for having me, good evening, fellow Nigerians. Great, Reverend Hayab, it's not new to see the former governor of Kaduna State caught up in these kinds of controversy. I mean he's always in the views, but no one would have seen this coming. As a person who resides and does business in Kaduna State, what is the meaning of this particular statement that's been accredited to the former governor? Well, if you know El Rufai very well, the former governor of Kaduna State, then you will have to guess one million meanings to whatever he said. Because any time El Rufai comes out in public to speak, if you see him speaking to the right, be careful, he's actually moving backward. If you see him speaking to the left, don't turn right, actually be careful, he's going forward. So the problem with him is that he is not consistent and he is so slippery that sometimes you hardly catch up. But this particular video is a very simple one. El Rufai is simply playing game and simply playing politics and what is he trying to achieve? El Rufai knows very well that before Muhammad Buhari became the president of Nigeria, he played this regional card, he played religious card. And finally when alliance came, they formed alliance with other political party and became president. So El Rufai is just smart, wanting to be the next Buhari. So he's playing a card, preparing himself so that the Muslim more will say, oh, this is really our religious champion, this is the man who depends our religion, this is the man who depends our religion. But I can say without fear of contradiction that for El Rufai he had actually failed even before he started the judgment. Because El Rufai do not have the kind of credibility, he do not have the kind of trust that Buhari enjoy from the people. El Rufai is not, I may have known him a very long time to know that he is slippery, he is not consistent when it comes to what he said. So we know he's up to something and I can't fault that because in the first place there is no way you can claim that you win the governorship of God, as they would have the body of Christian. It didn't happen in 2015, it did not happen in 2019 and even in 2023 it was a collective boss of Kaduna people that make the government. Interesting, many are calling for the head of the former governor, knowing the situation of things in Nigeria, where we are after the just included elections. Some would call this just included elections the most divided that Nigeria has seen and there's still scars to show for it. Some people are saying you shouldn't have said this now, but there have been a better time for him to make this statement and the reactions have been any different. You see, the issue of time is not the problem, but when you look at the time factor issue about it is this man is simply trying to steer up a serious problem for the new administration. And that's why the new administration was what happened. I am not going to suggest for them what to do when they must watch out. It's going to be dangerous for them to carry a snake in their back and think that he is a friend. Because this man will come, jam your head, create confusion in your calm, create confusion in the polity, create confusion among fed foods in the country and go and hide somewhere. And then tomorrow he will be called as if he is a mediator. What I see with a revised statement of speech is that simply a man who will go and steer away fight between a husband and a wife and come back and want to act as a mediator. So a revised one for this crafty and this terrible way of dealing with people. Even his friends knows him. We actually try in Kuduna to manage such a slippery person for about eight years. And today he is no more a governor. But he does not want to leave this thing. If you want to be recognized, if you want to be acknowledged, if you want to be heard. And that's why he's creating this confusion. Yesterday in Kuduna we had a meeting, an interfed meeting that was put together by groups. And we were there with Jamal Tunasi. We look at all these conversations and we realize that it is our call for. It has no meaning. It does not. It does not have Islamic cause. And it is not with the support of Muslims. But you see, it's easy for such statement to steered off sentiment among Muslims and also steered off anger among Christians who do not understand. But I do know that a revived do not enjoy the support of Muslim for what he is doing. And that does verify. See, we don't want to go into certain statements about the election. Who win? Who do not win? But we simply know that this kind of speech by the revived is up to something. He wants to steer the Confucian in the polity, create new enemies for the new administration, and then prepare himself as a hero. Unfortunately, we know him better and he has failed. Looking at the history of Kuduna stage, knowing that there have been more religious crisis and of course, ethnic crisis over the years. For somebody like you, I think I have spoken with you, and Sheikh al-Mariah, I don't know if I've got his name right. Yes. Sheikh al-Mariah, I guess. Yes, on issues of conflicts in Kuduna states. How is it possible to keep the peace if the number one or former number one or somebody as highly placed as El-Rifah will continuously make statements like this? How is it possible for you to keep the peace? It is not difficult to keep the peace because when we talk about keeping peace, we are talking about working with stakeholders to maintain understanding. And I can tell you that larger percentage of stakeholders know the person we are dealing with. You know, I earlier said somewhere today that one of the big problems with Nigeria is that people come into leadership without us as a nation having a provision that requires that we check the mental capability of the people before we hand over our leadership to them. That's why we can have terrible people coming to leadership. Fortunately, to have been given the mandate by us where they would turn to bring out their true color, they would turn to create problem among them. A true leader supposed to find a way to unite the people. A true leader supposed to find a way to build a cohesive society. But when the leader himself is the one that is promoting division, is promoting segregation, is promoting abuse of other people's right because as citizens of Nigeria, we didn't become citizens because we are Christians. We were citizens of Nigeria because we are Nigerians. Our faith does not matter of what's been Nigerian. So we must be treated as Nigerians, respected as Nigerians. How could you swerve by the constitution of Nigeria to defend and protect the constitution and let the constitution trust about everybody has people right? And you, at that stage, will come out to make such a statement. But here you have the L5 we're talking about. Some of us have learned him for a very long time and many times when we draw attention to people, some may not understand and assume we have certain scores to settle. We have no score to settle. We will fight and simply saying, watch out, this man is dangerous. Watch out, this man wants to divide. But I can tell you that I've been speaking to the, since the video came out, I've been speaking with many Muslim clerics. They are ashamed because these to them is even giving their religion a bad name. But one of them said that I want to cut the way he put it. He said our religion promote justice, our religion promote fairness, our religion promote equity for him to hide under our religion to preach this. Someone who do not know about our religion may assume we are in support of suppression, we are in support of taking advantage of people. That's not what the religious of Islam promote. When the L5 was governor of Kaduna State, did he in any way actually promote Islam? And I'll tell you no. He did not promote Islam in practice. He did not promote Islam in citing religious places. He did not promote Islam in whatever Islam stands for. The fact of the boy is that he insulted Islam and abused Islam. Because he is up to something, he has to stay come back to play the religious card, thinking that everybody is not his blind. And I can say, I keep repeating this word that he has felt even before he began because everybody's eyes is open. Yes, he may have gotten an election announced in their favor, but that is not the matter. I can tell you, even if a L5 son is the one to have been announced as governor, he will know the difference between fear and how to govern people when there is fairness. From how to govern people when there is injustice. So talking about fairness and justice, people want to be represented whether it's the governor, whether it is the houses of assembly, especially knowing again how to keep up and apply to people, what people in that state have suffered. If the governor is saying this about who he, you know, who emerged as governor and deputy governor in his state, do other people of Kaduna state feeling well represented in terms of, you know, the cabinet of the new governor? Tell me what you think about this new governor and, you know, the people that... Well, the new governor has not yet formed any cabinet. He makes some appointments, but there is no, you see, when you call a cabinet, a senior special assistant is not a cabinet member. He's just an appointee of governor. Some of the people so far he has announced are no cabinet officers. But very soon he is going to come up with his cabinet officers, then we will judge him by what he said. I think he's going to be hasty for us to start saying, but I can say, Yuba Sani, I know is not Yuba Sani. Yuba Sani we have known is not Yuba Sani. He's not going to be Yuba Sani. Yuba Sani is somebody who enjoyed dividing people. He do not understand friendship. He do not understand relationship. He do not understand togetherness. Everything you see him promoting is about self, about his glory, about his power. I want to repeat that one of the things I have known with about Erufai for a long time and I've said to people is that he is suffering from conflict. He does feel everybody looks down on me. Everybody thinks I cannot do it. So let me show them. I'm not sure that showing your might tells people that you are a leader. In fact, whether your ability to relate with people who even look down on you but later on recognize your power is better than showing them might. But that is the way he wants to live his life. He has had his privilege to rule for eight years. He knows that Keduna State's supper and so many people died during his eight years. He cannot even exhilarate himself. And from this video, it shows that he has, he had a heart in all the killings that happened just because he wanted to oblige the people, create fear in the people, set confusion in the state. Well, whatever has a beginning must have an end. It is a tenor administration and the tenor has ended. He cannot recontest a new person have to come. And this new person must come out with his style of leadership, must come out with his way of winning the people, must come out with his way of uniting the people. And I must give credit to the new governor because in his speech, he said, the most important thing he is going to focus is security. I pray and I hope he will keep to his word and do not dance to the right or to the left to please somebody. Keduna people may give him the mandate, not another person. So if he chose to hold that mandate sacred, hold that mandate dearly and deliver the services the people want him to deliver, I can tell you it will not belong. You will hear the Keduna you used to hear that people were killed, people suffering, will cease to be the, will become a Keduna of joy. That Keduna we know people, where people will come to do all it is, where people will come to be happy. So I don't want to start thinking that Ubasani will do like Eropai. I am believing that he will be his himself and act responsibly according to the what he took to defend and protect the constitution of the federal republic and what is there in the constitution it should protect lives and properties of citizens and those who reside in Keduna city. You may mention of the fact that the new governor Ubasani has spoken that he is going to deal with security but what is security is there is no form of peace and togetherness. I know that, yes, people like you who are peace actors do your best but in agenda setting for this government, let's talk about that, is the Christian Association in Nigeria and of course the Muslim, the, yes, the Islamic society, are they yes, to set an agenda for the governor because I'm guessing that there are people who will set a different agenda for the new administration. What should be the priority on top on your list when you're speaking directly to the government? Well, before the swearing in of the governor I think just immediately after he was declared the winner of the election he set up a transition committee and that transition committee had a subcommittee called citizen engagement subcommittee. This committee met with Khan, they met with Jamal to Nasser Islam, they met with different organizations and the way they approached us they said look can you come and share with us what are those things that it were not done right in the outgoing administration so that we will not come and make a mistake. We went there and interfaced with them, we shared with them, we put our idea into right writing and also discussed with them extensively. We told them the peace of our mind, we told them how the Kaduna is no longer united, because we told them how people have been divided along religious and ethnic line, we told them how people were sad from work without justification, we told them how we are people, general officers were promoted from lower ranks and on top of those who are ahead of them we fostered the civil service, we told them so many things that you know ordinary we need to speak about. We also expressed concern with the depth, raising of depth that Kaduna have gone into. So we speak to them honestly and we shared our concern. The fact is that we were there early so we were able to finish for two hours we had engagement with them, then the Jamal Nasser Islam came and other groups came. So I believe that he actually has put of his put of a machinery in motion to show that he's going to listen, he's going to attend to advice and he's going to do what is right. To me it would be history for me now to start thinking his part of this, let me give him the benefit of the time. After the first hundred days we will see the way he, our people will say we will see the way he used to drink the soup, then we will know whether he will take all the soup or he will not attend to people, but for now let's give him the benefit of the time and I value said to you that in his speech he makes a clear commitment for unity, a clear commitment to address security matters. So we will work together, what we've done is that our doors are open we are willing to engage, we're not looking for government for anything. Some of us are well established where we are. What we simply want is give the citizens an enabling environment for everybody to come out and exhibit that potential that God has deposited in him. But when you suppress others and you allow the killing of your citizens to go unchecked then citizens will lose confidence and once there's no more confidence then the Confucian we had eight years ago will continue. But we are hopeful that the Confucian stopped on May 29th. What is happening now is that the final effort of those who were used to create the Confucian to go clear out by this government so that Kaduna State will once again come back to be that happy state instead that everybody yarn to come for NYC everybody yarn to come for visit everybody wish to be there because Kaduna State have always been new. Despite the history of our crisis people have always cherished to come to Kaduna because the crisis will come and then we manage it in the future. But why we are not able to manage this crisis in the last eight years because we had a driver who claimed that he knows unfortunately he only know how to kick the car he really didn't understand driving. Driving and kicking the car are two different things. Great. Let me just ask you one last question. It's one thing to hope and trust and be positive that a governor will do what he's promised. Many governors have not kept to their promises but then it's too early for them to decide if he was signing with a good governor or not. But let's talk about re-engineering the mindsets of the people because the mindsets of the people have been wounded, they've been battered. People have lost a lot of ones. People hold grudges especially when it has to do with ethnic and religious crisis. What are you going to be doing with communities? Again, I speak to you as a peace activator. What are you going to be doing to re-engineer the mindsets of the people in Kaduna State? Whether they be Muslim, Christians, what sort of ethnic divides they're from? What are you going to be doing in closing? Already we've been doing and we'll just continue to do what we've been doing. Yesterday when we were holding that interfaith meeting the Kaduna Peace Commission were also holding another meeting with other people. So there are a lot of engagement going but you see there's something about peaceful. I was speaking with one of our organizers yesterday and I said to them one of the most painful aspects of working for peace in Kaduna State is that you go and receive grant in millions of NERA come and invest to promote peace but by one negative action of those in authority by one careless statement of those who are in power you will now destroy everything and all the success stories that you were thinking you will come out as harvest cease to be. But you see there's a commitment to us ensuring Kaduna is peaceful. One because aspect leaders they have no option than to build Kaduna State for our children for the generation to come. Number two as responsible citizens we have no other place we're going to run to than Kaduna so we must work hard to make Kaduna peaceful. I have ever said this and I want to repeat the worst time Kaduna was hot in February 2000 and in November 2002 efforts were put in place and we were able to sustain peace for nine good years and there were no more killings and tension until the post-election violence in 2011 we can still go back and pick those lessons what were those things that we did right who were the kind of stakeholders we work with they may some of them may not be there but the institutions are there institutions are beyond a human being they are about destruction and we begin to work with that work unfortunately for us Obama was around that time let me say this one of the most interesting thing that people don't know about our former governor is that he was never a Kaduna man he was just privileged to hide under whatever to come and be governor of Kaduna and that was like he got virtually everything wrong and he also shows that he do not care whatever happened because after his governor's he's going to move away since he's not a Kaduna man but we have gotten someone who is from Kaduna and we hope that he will understand how we used to live together how we used to work together how we gain success together and he will not throw away that because the piece of Kaduna is the success of his government the fact that it will be a plus for him for Kaduna to be peaceful because he is the governor and people will plan for him Well I'll say thank you Reverend Joseph Hyatt is the chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria the United States chapter thank you for speaking with us and keep up the good work thank you for having me Mary I appreciate everything thank you stay with us we'll take a big break where we'll return and we'll talk about the scandal behind Nigeria's big plus