 I mean, you have value CDC is in attendance. They're the only attendees right now. Okay. Okay, so we should get started. I don't have any announcements. You know, Nate when I don't have the language for this but every other meeting starts with an explanation how either the governor or the attorney general or both allow us to meet via zoom during this emergency. And we've never said that. I don't know if that's an issue. Presumably it isn't since we haven't been doing it. So another planning board has a script and. Yeah, I think it's okay. I mean it's kind of the. Everyone see the agenda. I'm having some issues in my screen. Yeah, I think we're fine. I mean if we're, you know, we do roll call votes. People know that it's on zoom so I feel like we haven't had any issues. Okay. Fine. Okay, I don't have any announcements. Does anybody else have any announcements. No. Okay, well then we got through announcements pretty quickly. I'm going to skip review minutes from October, which I think I sent out at least a week or so ago. I don't have them in front of me. Does anybody have any comments. These minutes exclude the executive session. I wasn't quite sure whether we can share them. We can share them in the public part of the meeting, but I'm still not even sure whether we can share them in an executive session either. I think an executive session we can then they remain part of the executive session. Okay, so we won't share, you know, we don't have those minutes to review now. Only the public meeting portion of the last time. Okay, so are there any comments on the minutes from October meeting. Okay, we don't have any John. Okay. Has Kevin noon and joined us. There's no, not yet yet. I'm going to email him or he knows about it right. Well, yes, but it might be a reminder would be helpful. Right. So we'll see if Kevin comes to us if not. Well in the meantime anyway, we'll skip down to the progress report on emerge the emergency rental assistance program. Okay. Jana couldn't be with us tonight because she has a conflict. With the east town. East housing. Fair housing group. It's not fair housing it's. What's the name of that. Community action. No, no, it's a housing group. The same as North Hampton's group. East Hampton housing partnership. Yeah, thank you. That's it Rita. Okay, so Jana has a conflict. There's a couple of things I wanted to talk about. But the first one really is. What do people think, or do you have any questions about the report that Jana sent us. I'm not going to read it. It's about a page one. It provides a summary of round one on indication of where we are so far on round two. And a brief outline of the changes that we made that make round two different than round one. So does anybody have any questions about this. A possible question was Jenna's. Feedback that people thought it was unfair that. Students I guess sharing a household. We're being treated as a household. And not individually. And I. I know that's the way it's done in every other housing program. I don't have any feeling that we need to change anything, but I just wondered if anybody else did. Yeah, thanks Tom. That was a right. That's one point of discussion is that, you know, we. Don't allow roommates if they're covered under one lease. And so there's been a few. Applications where, you know, one roommate is claiming to have a hardship. The others are not. And then. You know, the other roommates aren't willing to share. You know, the other roommates aren't willing to share. Financial information. And then it's ineligible anyways, if there's, you know, they're probably over income, but. You know, I agree, Tom, we've kept, you know, the definition of household to be, you know, for instance, if someone had a different lease for each bedroom in a unit. Then individually, they, you know, they could apply. But this isn't the case if there's, you know, one lease with four different tenants. So it's possible that there's some sort of sub lease, even if it's not formal. And if there was some documentation that in fact, the lease was not collectively shared, but oftentimes those leases name everyone in the house on the, on the lease. And so if one person fails to pay the rent, the rest are obligated to pay. So it's a little bit hard to tease that apart. Yeah. I was talking. Somebody else wanted to speak. I was just going to guess that a lot of times the agreement between the roommates is more informal than being part of the lease. They have some who is going to pay how, what part of it, but it's probably not part of the lease written down somewhere. So yeah. There's a lot of different forms, but, you know, a lot of the landlords have gotten pretty sophisticated these days and they require everybody who lives there to be obligated to pay the rent regardless of, you know, how they choose to divide it up. Right. Yeah, I'll talk a little bit more about this in a minute or two, but I was talking to Ellen shactor. I think it was earlier this week, I guess, or lately, I think it was earlier this week. Ellen shactor is the director of housing stability. For the city of Somerville. And I'd heard Ellen speak about the things that. The city has done in order to try to ameliorate the eviction crisis. In Somerville. And one of the things she mentioned offhand, which I need to get back to her about is that they found a way in Somerville to allow households to be eligible. If there is no lease. Or if no one who's living in the household is on the lease. Apparently it's not unheard of. It's not unheard of. It's not unheard of for the name on the lease to be someone who has since left the unit. To move someplace else. And the people who remain on the lease. Or who remain in the unit. Are not on the lease. And yet they may need. Assistance. So that's one of a number of issues that I'd like to. Get back to Ellen about. Nate and I also spent some time talking to. Janet and also Donna Bowden who works with her. On the Amherst emergency rental assistance project. This was partly stimulated by a call that the town manager's office received. Saying that they were slow to respond. Where to get in touch with people. And they were able to respond to what they were saying. And what they were saying. And what the institution had been sent in. So far, there's only been one complaint like that. And it sounded as if they were able to get to the person. In a little over a week. Nonetheless, that seemed a little long, but. In general. When Nate and I were talking about this, it felt like. It felt like we were going to get a little bit of payment. At this point in time and round two. Then, then we were seeing. I mean, the good news is. That over 80 people or households had applied. So we're approaching the hundred who applied in round one. There may be a little bit of overlap there. But the process of working with people. To get through. An application, a completed application. To get through it. To get through it. To get through it. To get through it. To get through it. To get through it. When documentation is necessary. And then have them approved. Seems to be taking a long time and. You know, as. Nate and I talked to Jana and Donna. It appeared that every case. Or maybe not every case, but. It's not uncommon for cases to prevent. Present special circumstances. That require additional thought or consideration. To process the case. And again, I, I mean, one example we talked about was. Two men, not students. Who are on the same lease sharing. A place. And. One of them does have a financial problem and the other does not. And so under our rules. They are now excluded. And there were other examples like that. They didn't necessarily result in the household. Being excluded. But. It just seemed like. There were at least half a dozen different cases. That Donna or Jenna presented to us. That indicated that a lot of work was going into each of these cases. Do you want to add anything to what I'm saying, Nate? No, I mean, I think, you know, the, you know, Jenna did say that. You know, the, with round two, there's a pre-application, which does try to, you know, screen applicants in terms of. Basic eligibility and then a case worker. From community action or respond to them to set, you know, set up a phone interview. And sometimes that might be a week to get back to someone to schedule. And then it's a few days out. And then she's finding that. You know, more than one call. And the first call will be over an hour. And then it often takes two or three calls. To get all the paperwork and everything together. Yeah, I guess, you know, it's interesting. I just, you know, I'm also working with the micro enterprise assistance grants and some businesses have been complaining about that we have to do income documentation for that. And I'm like, well. It's block grant money. So we do. And then they're like, well, you know, I'm like, you know, and I know the tenants maybe are feeling the same way, but it's like, we have, there's, you know, we ask for as little as we can with the housing program. You know, we only ask for a bank statement and. You know, a copy of the lease and. Not a lot of other information. So. I don't know. Yeah, John, it is interesting. Community action seemed like every case has something unique, whether it's a roommate or, you know, working age children who are now at home and are they part of the income and. You know, I think eventually though it does take four to six weeks to, to get someone approved and have a payment being processed, which isn't, you know, I think that's pretty, pretty standard for a lot of these programs. So I think it is a lot of upfront work, but in the end it does, they do get approved. You know, Jana did say that only one or two households in round two right now are behind on their rent. So for whatever reason, the tenants that are applying aren't. You know, they're, they've been able to make payments. So I don't know if. You know, in the next month, we're going to see many more households because of the eviction moratoriums ended and. You know, I don't know. I mean, it's just odd that. We haven't had a, I was, I was thinking we'd see more applicants and more be being approved. Right. I mean, I would think that people could just do a pre app, have one phone call, say, here's my COVID loss. I've lost my job. Here's my household information. And then it's like a week later, they're getting processed, but it doesn't seem to work that way. I was wondering what, one of the things in the report said that one of the other things that was hard was demonstrating the COVID relatedness of any income laws. And I just wondered what, how does somebody demonstrate that? I lost my job. How do I, I mean, I don't know. I don't even know what the hoop is that you have to jump through, but maybe it's not, maybe it's too hard or maybe that's something that we could try again. I don't know. My recollection is that occurred with households in which the adults were being paid under the table. You know, they were working in a restaurant and they were receiving income. And then they lost their jobs, but in fact they don't have any pay stubs because they're illegal immigrants. And so it's hard to demonstrate that. You know, I, it's like Nate and I were both saying, every case seemed to have some kind of an issue with it. And we, with the loss of income too, we've, we've, you know, we've also, you know, told community action that if there's a story and it's possible, then they can self declare, there's a form, you know, where they can essentially assign something saying that it, you know, that's, that's it. You know, except they don't have a bank statement or something, you know, some, some households don't have bank accounts. And so then they, it is really difficult to show a loss, but if they have a story and it seems consistent, you know, community action can use their discretion to allow them. But yeah, I mean, I don't, you know, we weren't asking for more than just a proof of loss of income or something or some hardship. And I guess some households are having difficulty even providing that, you know, what some type of documentation on that. It is surprising. Yeah, especially given the numbers that I read somewhere of how many expected evictions there are in the next short amount of time. This seems, seems these things just don't seem consistent with each other somehow. Well, this got me to thinking about how we are using our resources and I'm not going to propose a change to our existing program tonight. My sense is that we should at least follow into December and then start to think about whether there's something else we should do. But I will say that the again, coming back to the city of Somerville, one of the things they've done is to focus on getting people into the raft program rather than into their own rental assistance program. They have a separate rental assistance program which uses money from the city of Somerville exclusively. There's no CPA or CARES money. So they're pretty flexible in how they can use it. We wouldn't have that option. But just to going back, the reason they prioritize raft, I believe, is that frankly, there's more money in it for tenants. Raft now has a maximum payment that goes up to $10,000. I believe we're capped at a little over 3,000. Is that right, Nate Arita? Yeah, like 3,300. 3,300. And so all I started to think about is if community action is going to do all this work, maybe it would be better if they were helping people get into the raft program. But if they were helping people get into the raft program, then our rental assistance program. And again, I want to let the program run a little bit more. But. And I also want to understand better how Somerville manages all of this. I hope to set up a conference call with Jana and Donna and Nate and I possibly Rita to talk about how Somerville is doing and how they're trying to ameliorate the problem of evictions. And there are other things, not necessarily the things that the housing trust could do, but things that the town could do, which I also want to mention. I mean, I actually did send out an email to a lot of people, including I believe a review about things that the town could do based primarily on what Somerville is currently doing. But I believe that the city of Somerville is doing the same thing. I think that's why I'm saying that the city of Somerville is doing similar things as well. So again, I don't regret that we started this emergency rental assistance program. At the time we started it, which when we started thinking about it, I believe last March. It made perfect sense. But as things are starting to change. I'm not so sure that this is the best way. John, I would just say that I think, you know, generally. These types of programs are incredibly complicated and require a whole lot of layers of review and revision over time. And it's often years after you roll out a program before you get it right. And so if in any way you can piggyback on to an existing program with existing staff with existing rules with a track record and have figured it out that, you know, that's, that's usually the best course because reinventing the wheel. Although that's an oversimplification can be problematic. Yeah, I don't want to say focusing on raft is necessarily a perfect solution. There are a huge number of raft applications that are backlog statewide. At least that's my understanding. And the raft agencies in this area, primarily wayfounders, but also the Franklin County group. Don't have enough staff to process all the applications that they're receiving efficiently or effectively. Now, what I did learn is that Somerville has a kind of separate relationship with Metropolitan Boston agency that administers raft. That agency set up a sort of a separate application line for Somerville and other towns in Metropolitan Boston. So their clients don't have to go through the regular route. They can do their applications with the town supporting them. And I made Jana aware of this and she has an appointment scheduled with wayfinders to see whether there's something that they could do to make it easier for community action to support people who are applying for raft. She said nothing is easy when it comes to this. And it's kind of. I just want to point out that as of Monday, wayfinders will have a new administrator running the raft program. And I happen to know her personally, she's amazingly effective and hardworking. And if anybody can turn that around, it will be, it will be she. That's great news. But again, if she doesn't have the staff. Well, I heard they took the whole wing of that new building down in Springfield that was supposed to go to their development team. And they told the development team they couldn't come because they needed 20 offices for the emergency assistance team. So I don't know how many people you need to run that but it sounds like they've got a pretty hefty group there. Well, that's good. That's good. And maybe Janet can work out a relationship. And others in Hampshire and then counties can work out a relationship with raft where it would help the wayfinders staff. And enable more people to get into that program more quickly. I mean, again, we'll know more about how our program is going. And what, if anything, Jen is able to work out with raft by the time we meet in December. But I did want to let people know that. At that point, we may need to be considering changes to the program that we have, or trying to figure out what it is that we can do to best help households who are having difficulty meeting the rent payments. I will say too that the housing course can be meeting every day. They're trying to hear three cases an hour. And I know they're behind, but you know, most of the cases they're hoping to refer to local programs like the one we've set up or other resources. So it may be that, you know, in December and January, the program actually gets busier because we're getting, you know, the court is referring tenants and landlords to mediation or to find other solutions than eviction. So, you know, I don't know if we consider emergency assistance then or if we, right, we change it, but you may end up getting more, you know, tenants who are actually in the eviction process who are returning to the program as opposed to, you know, you know, applying beforehand. Not that it makes a difference, but, you know, we may want to have different criteria of someone is in the eviction process. So how does, you know, how does that happen? But yeah, I agree. I think we're checking in monthly with community action and we can let the trust know if there's changes or ideas we could present. Yeah, I also mentioned that there are a few other things that maybe we should be recommending to town council. Legal services attorneys around the state, at least this is my impression, are recommending that tenants notify landlords that they want to take advantage of what is called the CDC moratorium. I don't know if people have heard about that. The federal centers for disease control basically set up a program in which if people inform their landlords that they can't pay their rent and are at risk of being homeless, then they can't be evicted. They literally cannot be thrown out of their apartment. That's the good news. The bad news is that it sunsets as of right now on December 31st, 2020. Nonetheless, again, legal services attorneys have been recommending that people do this as a way of trying to hold off to get a little bit more time for people to get into raft or to get into other programs if they're in trouble with their rent. Also, as Nate said, the housing courts have a big backlog of cases. There was something like 900 cases waiting in the wing, so to speak, for the state eviction moratorium to end. And it's going to take a while for those 900 cases to be processed in Western Massachusetts. And that doesn't include the new cases that will undoubtedly start to flow as well. So the housing courts can't move too quickly because they don't have the capacity either. So anything that, again, we can do ought to be helpful. The city Somerville has done a few other things that I will mention. One of the things they did is ask Somerville landlords to sign the pledge. Francis, you may know more about the pledge than I do because I know mass housing finance was working with landlords around the state to try to get them to sign the pledge. So I think that's a good thing. Basically, it's a pledge to work with tenants and not try to think of evicting them as the first line of what to do. The pledge has a few elements, which I'm not recalling off the top of my head. Can you recall what they are Francis? Yes, and I'm going to share it. Can I, is there a chat I can share with because we have it on our website. It's basically the same as the Boston. The city of Boston put out their own pledge. So it's basically a copy of that one, but statewide, but also includes an addition for mediation. Let me pull it up. Okay. Well, Francis is doing that. Honestly. The details are not what's important. What's important is that. The city of Boston and the city of Cambridge and I believe mass housing finance has had a lot of success in getting landlords. In Massachusetts to sign the pledge. So maybe we could have. Some success in getting landlords. Perhaps particularly the major landlords. To sign the pledge. And again. Who knows whether they'll sign it. The city of Boston, the city of Cambridge. And I believe mass housing finance. Has had some success here. And that would also help to stave off some evictions. Again, that's not something the housing trust could do. It would really be something that town council would need to do. And I think what happened was most of the. Groups that were associated with mass housing. So for instance, an Amherst beacon signed on to that. And the larger property owners. Property managers, Trinity, PVD, others. Of course, we signed on. All the other nonprofits around the state signed on. It was spearheaded by the Massachusetts association of CDCs together with mass housing and DHCD. And there was a press release just today. That went out. I guess you have that Francis. Yeah. I don't know if it's a press release, but yeah, so at mass housing, the, the owners was to start with our largest. Partners because they of course have the most units, but since then primarily Chapa. So the citizen housing. Planning and advocacy group have been in charge of sort of spreading it out. But basically it promises. To provide by and support the current CDC eviction moratorium. Engage with residents and create payment plants. Support and accept rental assistant payments. Promote rented adjustments for qualified households that either have section eight or the mobile vouchers. And encourage mediation. So, you know, I've been just encouraging people to share it with other folks. So it can be from city council, but I think it can also be if, if anybody knows landlords that have the share of units, that we can also share it, I think. I just ordered to Nate, if you want to send it out to everybody, Nate. I'm just going to say it would be helpful if I could get a copy of that Francis. Yes. And I'll, Nate, I'll share. Tom, did you share the Google doc or the word doc? This is an email I got from. Mass housings. Press right guy, Tom. Tom farmer. Okay. I'll, I'll share what I have to just in case. Great. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. I mean some, you know, some landlords, both for renters and business owners and some. They seem pretty willing to, you know, to work with their tenants. And some of the larger ones in town, I think are, are frustrated because, you know, not only is it, um, you know, tenants and there's also some students. I know some of them are feeling pressure because they've lost rent from, you know, different types of renters. And so, you know, it is interesting in Amherst with so many student rentals, you know, would we modify this? So, you know, what's the, you know, would a landlord, some of the larger ones in Amherst be, you know, wary of signing it because they may have student renters who have, you know, kind of abandon their leases. Whereas, you know, smaller renters may be fine because they actually want to help their tenants. I just, you know, is there a way to nuance it to fit the tailored to Amherst that we need to. But no, I think it's a good idea. We, with the rental program, we have asked landlords to sign on actually saying that they would, you know, sign an agreement with the town. Okay. Moving on. I'll mention two other things quickly that. Some of it was done. They created a program. Called the housing stability notification. But now it's just to work with the agreement. And Jenna said that all but one landlord has been really willing to work with the rental assistance program. I guess one was hesitant. For whatever reason to. Sign an agreement with the town. So. Okay. Moving on. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, this is the housing stability notification act. And essentially what it means is that when landlords send a notice to quit. To a household. They also have to send them information about resources. That can be used to try to prevent eviction. For potential sources of funding. And so landlords are actually required to do this in Somerville. When they send out a notice, a quick notice to quit. To households. So that's something in principle, the town could do. I do want to say that. When we start getting into things the town can do. We do have to recognize their limitations on the number and availability of staff in town hall. To implement something like this. Somerville has an entire office. Of housing stability. That's separate from other housing offices that they have. So they're a slightly larger. But they're a little bit smaller. But they're a little bit smaller. Locality. And Amherst is, and it's easier for them to do things like this. Nonetheless, they, they may be things that we want to consider. The last thing that I think would be more difficult to implement an Amherst. Is an eviction moratorium. The city of Somerville actually has. An eviction. Moratorium. And even though it's a similar. Formal. More freedom. And continues, even though the state's eviction moratorium has ended. Well, I. On the one hand, I could say I would like to see town council. Adop something like that. I mean, Somerville adopted that back in March or April. After a lot of consideration. And so. But it makes sense at this point to ask town council to adopt something like that, although it may. So there are a number of things that Somerville, Cambridge and Boston have done, possibly other localities that Amherst could consider. Pat, I'll resend the memo of things that of these ideas that I did send to town council. Actually, I think I resend it to both Lynn and Paul as well. But, you know, it just adds something else to a group that has a lot on its plate, as you suggested earlier before we were recording. I think it's important too. So, yeah. Okay, well, let me go on to the agenda item that we skipped. I see Kevin Nuna is here. So, Nate, if you could add Kevin in, and that'll give us a chance to hear from him about what's happening with the seasonal shelter or shelters in Amherst as November one. Kevin, you're a panelist now so you can unmute yourself and start your video if you have that. Okay. I think there it is. Hi, how are you. Thanks for joining us Kevin. I just had this Twilight Zone experience I went to your email John. I clicked on the link and I ended up in the CPA meeting. I kept saying we're there. I don't know why. I do know why because I went to the CPA meeting earlier today and I may have given you the wrong link. That's okay. They seem like nice people. I do know Sarah Marshall, but I have no idea what these people are talking about. It was all about money. So thank you for the invitation. So you had asked me to talk about Craig's doors, the changes that have gone. Is that, can you see me? Is it okay? Yes. Okay. So the Baptist church with COVID-19 the Baptist church wasn't big enough. We were just in the space. So we shopped around and, you know, talk about Twilight Zone experiences. I was negotiating with the Emmanuel Lutheran in the middle of it. The pastor asked me to meet with the, with the executive committee and he never sent the link. And I kept texting him asking where man died at the age of 48 or 47. I don't know. It's just like, wow. This can't get any worse. So the Unitarian society of Amherst did come forward and say that unanimously the board voted to do it. And it's a beautiful room. I've never been in it. That's where we have the community of breakfast every Wednesday. And, but we can only fit about 14 beds in there. We were hoping for 16, but it just isn't enough space there either with the six foot separation. And then we were able to rent the university lodge or university lodge. I think it was formerly called and owned by Kurt Shumway in the Hampshire hospitality group. And that's up on 345 North Pleasant Street, right? Sort of where North Pleasant Triangle and East Pleasant all converge at that rotary. And that's going pretty well. I got a text from Kurt the other day saying, how's it going? And it seems quiet from my perspective. And we said, yeah, it looks like a busy hotel. That's all a motel. People, you know, we've had people tell me that they haven't slept in a bed in five years or are just so honored to be in there. One guy had been homeless by the year. He's out breaking. I said, you know, they have a company that comes to do that. The hotel does that. And he just wanted to show his appreciation. So so far so good. So there was the motel was also useful because the health department wanted us to have a negative COVID-19 test result before we let people into the congregate site. But they did make a concession on the motel. So because if someone were positive, where would you send them back out to the streets? Or can you get them to Everett to this? I hope you saw the article today in the paper that the only quarantine site is in Everett. It's about a hundred miles away. Probably not far from Somerville. Anyway, so we have an assistant climbing up here with me. She'll probably get into the picture pretty soon. Anyway, we. There you go. We. What was I talking about? Totally distracted by this cat. We are grateful that we have this motel. And so far so good. We are prioritizing women and elderly. In the motel. And or those with special needs. And, you know, someone, some mental health problems or something like that. And then everybody else is down at the. At the Unitarian meeting house. There we have 14 beds. We prioritize nine for men. And five for women. And then. Of all the women's beds are not filled. We, we conditionally allocate those to men. But. So there's only about two women down there. That wouldn't either didn't want to go to the motel or. We didn't want to bring them there because of past behaviors. And so. So it's just now to two. And then tonight I was told that we're full all together there. And we've got one. One room left at the motel. I don't know what we're going to do when. When we're full all over, but. That's a problem because in the middle of the winter, especially in the middle of a pandemic. This is a blessing to have a motel in the middle of a pandemic. But it's also going to be a real frustration when, when there isn't any more space. And. And there's no resolution yet with North Hampton as to what they're doing with their. They can't use the high school like they did last year. So. They're finding some other hotel, I guess, or some church, maybe. They haven't announced it yet. They're hoping to find some space that they can use. How many spaces are there? How many spaces are there in the motel? 20 rooms. And so there's, if there was an existing relationship, it would have allowed people to double up. So we have a father and a son and two couples. So that adds three more. Yeah. And I don't think there are any others. Oh, there's one potentially. The son of one of the women that lives there might, might join her. So that would be 24 then. But we don't want to create really. We don't want people to say, oh yeah, yeah, we're, we're a couple. No, we're not doing that because we, we would be then. I'm not sure of what we're creating and who's behind that door and what, what's going on there, you know. So yeah. And John, you had a question. I know Carol asked my question. So do you also use the motel then as if someone tests positive and they're in the UU. Social hall to move. No, they can't get into the UU without a negative test result. Oh, okay. I'm a health director. So that's solid. You can't do that. But the, they will agree to let us put people in the motel if they've just had a test. Because they're individual rooms and, you know, they can shut the door and have their own bathroom. And so, but if anybody tests positive in either site, there, we would contact MIMA through the command center, the messages, emergency management agency, and they would be offered a, they would be able to go to Everett to this motel in Everett. And they would remain there for, I think it's 10 or 14. I think it's 10. I think quarantine is 14, but 10 is for whatever, until they produce a negative test result. They would stay there. And also if someone needs quarantining once we're full. They can also go to Everett provided they've had a test. The problem with that is that the results come back in 24 to 48 hours. So, you know, you could be shipped down 100 miles down the third bike and then, you know, the day after tomorrow, okay, you're done. See you. And they'll send you back. So, but, you know, it's better than nothing. And the quality in Northampton was the MIMA site. But they wouldn't, at that time, they wouldn't let anybody in except COVID positive cases. And that was a real frustration as we could have sent a whole bunch of people over there just to be sheltered. So the motel over in Northampton, it was a better part of the summer with nobody there. So MIMA decided to close the one there and the close the one in Pittsfield and Lexington, I think it was the other one. And now they're, they only have the Everett facility. And you guys all know that during Boston than there's Boston is 495 in a specific ocean. Anything in between is, you know, flyover country. It's hard to get Boston's attention. But we do really need a regionals place for people to quarantine. And isolate. A year ago, you had some space at Hampshire college, I believe. I guess that's right. Change is not possible now that the college. Well, yeah, you're right. They were not open when they sent everybody home. And so the town managers are an alum and the president is, you know, I don't know what he can to cooperate with the town and. It wasn't needed because we tested everybody on April 29. There were no, no staff, no, no, no guests in that thing. Thank God that there was no one who tested positive. So we of course immediately ask, can we have that site anyway? And the answer was no. And then we asked for a Wildwood school and the answer was no. And now all of those that they're, they're not in the play right now, because all that while was resuming, I believe, and, and Hampshire has resumed already. Now, whether there's going to be any wiggle room over the period of time. When they leave, because I think most schools are cutting short or curtailing their, their semesters so that people leave. You know, around Thanksgiving and don't come back till February. That'd be great, but I don't know that there's any plan to do that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Lincoln apartments also on Lincoln Avenue. I think are being used by UMS for quarantine and isolation. But they're not extending that to anyone from the people from the community that we serve. It's only. People from the UMass student body and faculty. I believe. I don't even know if that's faculty. Maybe you may know that. I don't know. You know. I don't. Can I do a question? Are you at capacity right now between the two sites? I don't know. I don't know. It's been the first time since November 1st. And we have one room left at the motel, which will probably get filled tomorrow. So that's going to be a problem as we move forward because. There's nothing anywhere else to put them. Right. Well, Kevin, I want to say. Congratulations on opening two sites. Thank you. Yes, it's been a little nerve wracking, but we got it done. I think that's great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have various points in this process, especially when we hadn't ramped it up with the negotiations. With the UU. They had a beautiful congregational conversation. Or whatever you want to call it. And. Like 99% of the people who were there or speaking in favor of it. And it was very, very moving. I've also been a member there for 29 years, but. You know, in this case, I was the petitioner. I knew that the consultants for the. Warranty breakfast really value it and wanted to expand the role. So we really appreciate their stepping up. That's great. Do you have staffing issues with having to maintain two sides? Any of you guys want to work the overnight shift. We're looking for overnight people. Yeah. We're, we're, we're ramping up. It just, you know, It's a while to get it done because we're a seasonal shelter. We're have been up till now. hire new people each season. The other thing to note is that the UU is only closed through May. So once they reopen, there's no room for a shelter program in their social hall. So we're going to have and I think Pat and I have had some conversations around this, we need to find a more permanent site because we all agree that church spaces or congregation spaces aren't really appropriate for shelters anymore, especially with COVID. So we need to find a more permanent site where that's going to be. I have no idea what funds can we get. If you're having trouble spending all your money, can you reallocate it to help us with this particular issue? We'd like to spend the money on finding places for your folks to live permanently, Kevin. That'd be perfect. But right now that your program doesn't extend to people who are homeless, right? Or have you changed that? No, I mean, we don't control any housing right now, but we do our best to support people who are developing housing, you know, like... No, but I thought that the program that you set up recently only applies to people who are in danger of losing their housing. You and I conversed about that. Oh yeah, the emergency rental assistance program is limited to people who are at risk of losing their housing. But do you think that might change with you folks at some point if it's not, if you're not able to spend all the money you've got? Not immediately. Again, I think Wei Ling has applied through Amherst Community Connections to the Community Preservation Act Committee for funds to continue to provide rental assistance that she has in the past. Right. And we supported that. So I don't know, maybe we'll at some point find a way to make that kind of program more permanent than Amherst. Well, we have 14 rapid rehousing subsidies that we're going to try and get people out of these places. Wow. But again, we're ramping up, trying to hire the people we need to do that. So maybe I need to get together with Tom to find out how Rafter's doing. And if they've got 20 people down there, maybe we can tap into that as well. 20 offices or 20 people? I had heard 20 new staff, but I had just met with their new executive director about a month ago. And he was talking, he was taking me on a tour of his new facility that he inherited when he came in. And he pointed to all these offices that were supposedly originally going to be used to house his development team. And he said, of course, they can't move in there now because we need it all for our emergency assistance, folks. So hey, I've got a question, Kevin. Yes, sir. Number one, I know you were kind of joking, but you know, I for one would be willing to volunteer for a night. I don't know how often, but I think if we could get the word out that you need that. Yeah, it's something. I don't know how often I could do it, but you know, they do require all us. They also do require us to have a COVID test first. So but yeah, that's not hard. We can send you over to the clinic for that. And if, yeah, if they can give you the test results within less than a week. No, I think we get them like within 48 hours. That's great. Kevin, if you can send me a call for volunteers, I'd be absolutely willing to send it out to my own mailing list. I dropped my pen just before that question came up. So now, but I will, I will, I know how to get ahold of John and you can forward it to Tom as well. That'd be great. Yeah. No, send it out to the whole, you know, I think, well, yeah, I'm obviously not going to fulfill the whole need, but I can get it broadly distributed. Yeah. I bet there's a lot of people in the community who would be willing to give up a night a month or... Well, that's the way it always was at the cop shelter over in Northampton. And we had that same thing going on at the Baptist church in the earlier days. But when COVID came, we lost a ton of volunteers. We also lost all the food that we used to get from UMass. Students ran this thing called the Food Recovery Network. Well, first of all, there's not that many students. And then second of all, UMass dining commons isn't, isn't permitting any food to go out anymore. You're talking about prepared food, right? Yeah. Food that they didn't like in the blue wall or the Berkshire dining comet that they didn't serve. We used to get that. And it was damn good. Very nice stuff. In fact, I think UMass has a good reputation for campus food. Yeah. So we used to be the beneficiaries of that. Well, now there's nothing. We've got nothing anymore. And we've asked Amherst College and no luck there. And Hampshire College, I think they just take your order and make it that day since there's so few people. So they don't have a lot of waste. Yeah. But yeah, it's unfortunate. There's a group nationally you must have heard of run by this internationally famous chef who... Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Spanish guy? Jose Andres. Yes. The guy from Spain. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I should probably try to get next to him and see. No, we're not next to him. Well, I don't know. Contact him and find out. I don't know if there's any local branch of that work, but you're right. I know Rachel's... I know Rachel's table's handing. I mean, I was down at one of our properties today and they were handing out these big boxes of food, but it's not prepared. You know, it's a gallon of elk and a bag of potatoes and probably not what you were exactly looking for. No, that doesn't hurt. But yeah, we used the food bank too for stuff like that for the vote. But there's a danger of the USDA food now is being cut as of December 31st. So that's going to hurt. Yeah. In fact, the food bank is asking people to send letters to their legislators. So just one other question. It's sort of a policy question, Kevin. If you could use the money to develop permanent supportive housing or support shelters, right? Yeah. Well, permanent supportive housing is always better. Housing is always better. Hotels are better than shelters. Shelters, housing, permanent housing is better than a motel. So yeah, that's the best. But there's a couple of problems in embers. One is available land. But maybe we can use the football field behind 132 North Hampton Road. I don't know. They don't seem to be using it. But yeah, land is a problem and cost in a town like this. It's very expensive, very expensive. And most developers don't want to do affordable housing. And we've had examples of, you know, all up and down North Pleasant Street where I don't think one single unit of affordable housing is in any of those units. I don't know how that happened, but it did. But if you added up all the visits to the emergency rooms and all the other social costs associated with taking care of the homeless, I think you'd find that it's cost effective. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's far better. But unfortunately, in the mowingland winters, when there's no, no option for that thing, you know, and it's going to get worse. It's going to get worse with the eviction moratorium ending October 17th. So it's going to be, you know, we're just starting to see new people that we've never heard of before. But we don't know if that's because of the eviction moratorium. We haven't really had a chance to do the intake and find out how they got there. But it's going to get worse before it gets better. Kevin, in addition to putting out a call for volunteers, is there something else that the housing trust could do to try to support the work that you're doing with Craig's Doors? Well, keep us posted on whether or not you changed the rigs, because we could, maybe if we could get first lesson security out of you folks, that would be a start for Tom's point. We can get people into an apartment, maybe have, and one of the things that's hard to do with the government sources is hard to get shared living arrangements. But we might be able to do that with some people, not all, but, you know, to make it more affordable, treat them as though they were student housing. I mean, up to four people can stay in an unrelated, can stay in a unit. So maybe that would help. But, you know, we have to be careful about who. And the other problem is with our population, we're a low threshold shelter. So we're taking people who are addicted or mentally ill in some cases. So you can't just give them a key to an apartment, necessarily, and say, hope you all get along. I think Wayling did try that on Route 9 there, Amherst Road, or whatever it's called, Belchertown Road. Yeah. And then it closed because, you know, she didn't have the supervision. And I think one guy let a chair on fire and went out to do some shopping somewhere and practically burned the place down. And another guy got in a knife fight with somebody else. So you really do need supervision. And I don't mean the disparages of people we serve, they're all very nice, but they do need to have somebody kind of watching the store. That's our covenant with them. You sleep, we watch. But yeah, but if you're dealing with sober housing, you know, like, I don't know if you're familiar with the Oxford House model. If you have a group of people who are staying sober and want to live together, that would be ideal for the kind of thing I'm proposing. You might consider. I have some experience with a house in North Carolina that eight guys live together. And they're exempt under the ADA. So they can have more people. And it's people who are staying sober. And if they show up, not sober, then they're asked to leave immediately. And they can come back, but they have to get sober again. But, you know, not tomorrow, but, you know, let's go to a program or whatever. Kevin, you mentioned you have some rapid rehousing as vouchers. Do you find that you can house people in Amherst or is it usually outside? Well, we haven't actually filled one yet. But we tried to use the fair market rental rate. And we put it into the budget. But the other concern, but they keep reassuring us is the state has not actually finalized our contract, because in the middle of all this contract negotiation came the decision to pursue funding from FEMA. So they're now going to ask us to also get reimbursed for the shelter expenses and the motel expenses by FEMA. And so they can conserve their ESG dollars for other things. The upshot of that is that we still don't have a contract. And we called them the other day and said, you know, we're going to run out of money soon. So can you send us a cash advance or something? And they're working on it, but it's a real concern. So we don't actually have those subsidies yet in place because we don't have a finalized contract with them. But they were based on the fair market rate in Amherst for one bedroom or two bedroom. We aren't going to have that many two bedrooms, but a studio or one bedroom, we could have that. Does anybody else have any questions or comments for Kevin? Or the cat. It's like when my kids were small, they saw me with a newspaper, they would just jump in my lap. This cat, she sees me sitting in a chair. There she is. Kevin, it almost looks like a skunk when you first picked it up. It does. She's about 15. Speaking of affordable housing, she was, I worked on a project when I worked at Open Pantry called the 32 Buyer Street. And that's where we got her. She was hanging around, you know, right next to where the sprinkler armory is. And there's a lot of open space there. And she was hanging around that housing project that we built. Well, thanks very much for joining us, Kevin. And my apologies for sending you the wrong link. It's been a bad week for that for me. And then I didn't know how to ask the question. Am I in the right room? But anyway, and I don't even know if they noticed I was there. So I finally left. That's where I got Nate's message saying, Hey, where are you? Okay. All right. Well, thank you all. I appreciate the work you do. So thank you, Kevin, for all the work that you're reading. I haven't seen you since town meeting. Didn't we used to sit next to each other and tell me you and your husband? I think so. Good to see you. Take care. Bye. Thanks. Okay. So now we're going to move on to the third major item on our agenda, which is reviewing and updating the housing trust strategic plan. I do want to be sure that we leave time to go into executive session. So I think we'll take this conversation as far as we can. It may require some more thought on us on our parts. And so we may not be able to finish it this evening. But nonetheless, let's get started. And Erica and Rita, do you want to go over the major points? I do appreciate your sending out the information in advance. And actually, I think it's pretty accessible, but I'll let you both talk about this. Erica, do you want to start? Would you rather have me start? Well, my question is more of a process question because we do have the one pager, which I believe was sort of compiled. And we went over it last time. But the process question is, Rita did a great job. She actually bought a converter from PDF to Word. So she could put the information in there. So you could see it exactly where it exists. And it's much more concrete than having a one pager. So I don't know if you want to go through the pages or you just want to do an overview. So that's the question. I mean, if people have had an opportunity to read it, I think we could go through it and see what people think in terms of our additions. I think there aren't that many pages. No. I think that the main substance of what you're recommending is really stretched out across about two pages. So I think we should talk about what you've got kind of line by line or goal by goal or something like that. Because the things that are at the back of the document really are, well, I won't say irrelevant, but creating a new long-range budget for the Housing Trust would depend in part on what we decide about these goals. Right. There's no point in jumping there tonight. Okay. All right. Well, if you want to go straight to page four, we decided or we decided to recommend. So these are all just recommendations and it's up to the group to make a decision. But to add goal number four, identify and secure funding resources. And I think I can just tell you from my point of view in reading this and also looking, I actually looked at Cambridge where they actually had, quote unquote, an endowment. And, you know, obviously we're in a different place than Cambridge and Harvard was the one that provided the endowment. We also have Amherst College. I know Hampshire is financially in a bind, but looking at how to create enough funding where we have our own independence, and we can think about how to utilize that funding. So goal number seven, we thought was important to add and to think about that. What are the different ways that we can actually create a larger fund and not be so dependent on the CPC or other more restrictive funding? Rita, did you want to add anything to that? Yeah, no, I think it is really about recognizing that without funding and a secure source of funding, either through an endowment or routine awards of CPA money, the trust just survives from year to year about, you know, financially. So this is to try to think long term, longer range about how to capitalize the trust so it can do more. Rita, have you sent me that quickly? I'm having trouble finding it. I don't know if you, then I could share it on Zoom if you want. Yes, I can't find it either. I thought I had it, but it's just the clean PDF. I think, Nate, you sent it to us. That would be great because I can't find it either. Do you want me to send the current one or the marked one? It has the additions to it. The one they're talking about. Right, Nate, you sent it out because I had to find it too. So I believe it was in your email, Nate. But I thought you had made changes. I can't find this. There was a redlined version. Yeah, let me see if I can find it. I'm operating off of a laptop. I'd have to switch computers. Nate, I sent you something earlier today, which were my detailed plan for the meeting. And that included a page or slightly over a page, maybe two pages that summarized this material. It was a redlined version, John. Remember you had asked me to do a redlined version of the and so. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I have what I have and because I pulled out what you did. And let me see if I can find it. Yes, you know, it's interesting. Yeah, I have emailed Jen and I never heard back from her. So I just did a conversion on the PDF to a Word document and then I did a redlined version. I mean, I can go. I just have to. No, that's fine. I think, you know, I think Jen uses like InDesign or something. And so it was easy enough to do. I got it into Word document. And then I did, you know, I edited within the Word document. I just found it. I found it. It's an email from John from Friday, November 6th. And it has, it's the trust action plan with edits. Right. And that has the redlined. Okay, you want to send it to Nate? And you can send it out. Yeah, I'm not finding it in my email. What I notice is if I go into my email, I'm going to have to get out of Zoom. Francis, were you able to send it to Nate? Thanks. Yeah, I was trying to search by keyword two and nothing was coming up. I don't know. It was one of four attachments that I sent a week or so ago to everybody. On November 6th, did you say? Something like that. There were a lot of emails from you, John. Well, there's a lot going on, Erica. What can I say? And let me tell you every email I appreciate. But I actually did want to piggyback on the fact that goal number seven, if we don't have an independent, to some extent, endowment, we have to depend on someone as dynamic as John to go in front of the CPA and to constantly advocate for money. And so lose a leader like John, you know, that that's the other piece. So is to try to create enough of stability for us that if we go through a transition where we either don't have the CPA that is very generous for others, we'll have lean years. Well, I appreciate that, Erica, and it's not that I disagree. I think adding that goal is a great idea. On the other hand, I think I see it as something we need to do in addition to relying on Community Preservation Act money. I mean, right now we're probably getting something in the neighborhood of half a million dollars a year and CPA money between and I don't mean the trust is I mean money that they're spending on community housing. Our strategic planning consultant, Jen Goldson, said that we should try to negotiate an agreement with CPAC in which they give us the authority to determine all community housing spending under a fixed budget. But even if we had that authority and even it was as much as a half a million dollars a year, honestly, that would be sufficient for the goals that at least I personally would like to see it would be about 50 percent. So we need, as you say, to have additional sources of funding that go beyond what we can get from Community Preservation Act funds. I absolutely agree with that. Where we get that, how we go about it is not something that I have any immediate ideas about though. So one of the things that is in the strategic plan that I saw is that there's a proposal of an annual, all of us getting together and really thinking through and strategizing. So it's something to consider. This is just our recommendation adding this to the strategic plan, but it also there's an existing recommendation that yearly that we come together and really think about those goals and you know, have they changed? Do we need to do more strategizing regarding the specificity of the goals? So just as a reminder. Okay, so next before you turn to that page, actually at the bottom of page four, one of the other areas that we thought was important was right there was to update because there's a lot in the strategic plan that has been addressed. And so to give, you know, ourselves that credit and updating those areas, I think it would be worth, you know, considering making those updates. So go ahead, you can go to the next page. Let me just stop for a minute, Erica, and just ask if anybody disagrees with the idea that we should make it a priority to identify other sources of funding. Yeah, I think I was on a, I was on a call or a workshop and people, I forget which one of you were talking about, you know, how, you know, how to get money, but then people were talking about right land donation or other possibilities for resources. And I just think that, you know, John, you do a lot of outreach with other communities, but it would be good if we had, if we did meet periodically to discuss that and had other ideas because, you know, just as we are witnessing with the CPA now, you know, if we were making a big request, but then the CPA also is becoming more competitive, we can't, we may not be able to rely on that as a funding source when it's needed. You know, it's hard to bankroll a lot of money, you know, even if we have local banks that we're willing to lend. I mean, at some point, you know, the trust can incur debt or other things. So, you know, is there, you know, are there programs that we could use or, you know, ways to leverage things if we needed to outside of traditional bonding by the town? You know, those are things that we haven't explored as a trustee. Yeah. Well, we can certainly consult with Shelly Gurring of MHP. She would be familiar with what other town trusts, housing trusts have done around the state. I'm not sure I've had that conversation with her, but if I haven't, I'm certainly willing to do that now. Yeah. Okay, great. So FY 2022 was pretty much trying to reflect some of the things that, you know, we have discussed and we've incorporated. So number seven, just adding, you know, establishing new or expanding existing rental and ownership housing assistant research had improved access to existing programs. So that sort of reflects some of the work that we're currently doing. And so just to make it more specific and reflective. I don't know if it's useful for me to read all of these. You can read them yourself. Well, let's take them one by one, Eric, and see if people have comments on them. Yeah. So number seven. Sorry for number 11, explore opportunities for conservation-based development. What do we mean by conservation-based development? Rita, do you want to address that? Yeah. Basically, you know, Amherst has been pretty ambitious about acquiring open space and using CPA funds and sometimes a combination of CPA and other funds. And when the town is doing that, can we look at, such as with, I think it's Hickory Ridge, can a part of that parcel of whatever is acquired, then be dedicated for housing so that you're combining. And it has been done in the past in Amherst. I way back in the early days, I believe it was Misty Meadows, which was a home ownership development. It was part of a larger conservation acquisition. And then a piece of property over there was dedicated for first time home buyers. So that's what we mean by conservation-based development. You're looking at a piece of property that has some frontage on a road. And hopefully, it's a road that is a major road in town or one that might have access to buses or whatever public transportation we have. The city of Northampton has done this. I know I've talked occasionally to Dave Zomac about it. And he is interested in principle, but I'm not sure he's identified a property yet, which we could do this, with the exception of Hickory Ridge, as Rita just mentioned. I think, you know, the other thing I'd like to say is that it seems like landowners are excited to put land in conservation. I think there's been a lot written about that in terms of benefits and maybe tax write-offs. And I feel like there hasn't been as much of a promotion about, you know, you can get some of the same benefits if you partner and put it into portable housing as well. And so, you know, I think it's a win-win. And I think it's something that just needs more promotion, whether it's a policy directive or if it's just something that needs more education, you know, an outreach to landowners. Is it something that, you know, we did it with Hawthorne, too, on a much smaller scale as a habitat, you know, habitat in two homes. But, you know, I agree. I feel like there could be opportunities where landowners have, you know, land where a lot of it could be conservation, but a fair amount could also be for housing. And is there a way to have, even create a small subdivision, John, on land, you know, not just having front-end, but even if there's enough, you know, enough to have a rodent, I mean. So, yeah, I think that's a one interesting opportunity. So, if you look from 7 to 11, there probably are strongest recommendations. So, like, research how to improve access to existing programs, our subcommittees doing some of that work. And then, John, you just, you know, also talked today about possibly using the money that we had for our program to help and assist people to get into existing programs. So, these are, it's just reflective of what we've actually been talking about. The number eight, and I might just recommend to just state pandemics or disasters versus specifically COVID, because there's going to be another disaster pandemic that we're going to probably have to deal with in the future. But it's to really reflect the fact that, you know, we also recognize that there's an opportunity to, you know, develop and support programmatically legislative and policy housing to mitigate effects of a disaster or a pandemic on low- and moderate-income households. And that's exactly what the program is that we've developed to do. Explore new existing revenues. We just talked about that. Wait, wait, Erica, let's stop with number eight and ask people to have comments on it. Sorry. It's okay. I mean, I have a comment. I like the way that you're broadening it because I felt like just talking about COVID-19, which hopefully won't be with us for more than another year or so, was too narrow. Yeah. So, if we're talking about dealing with emergencies or disasters, that actually makes better sense to me in terms of how to formulate a goal like this. Yeah. Yeah, Matt. Yeah. And I like it. It goes hand in hand with the conversation we had tonight about, you know, are there, you know, like the pledge to, you know, to not evict from landlords and are there, you know, would we have a suite of tools that we could implement if something were to happen? So, you know, if it's familiar, if it can be, you know, outreached easily, then it could be more effective. So, you know, some of these are, you know, what we're doing with the rental assistance program is kind of, you know, the town's first time doing it. And same with, you know, business relief programs, we're kind of, you know, reinventing things or trying it again for the first time in 15 years. But if, you know, if it becomes something that we have, you know, documented well and we can go back to it pretty easily, that'd be really helpful. Okay. Number nine we just talked about. So I'm not going to read it. It's just really more stability in terms of our funding and thinking about financial stability for the next five years, looking at other resources. So number 10, it was actually written throughout here, but just to more focus on the zoning bylaws, because it seems like the zoning bylaws could have a huge impact on creating more affordable housing. So to impact that in, you know, in the next two years, trying to have an impact on that. And I think we were going to research, there's, Rita helped me with this, there was a woman who actually did some research on it in terms of zoning bylaws, and we were going to look into what she found, she did an analysis of it. Amy, I think it's Amy Dane's study, right? That was someone else, Judy Barrett? Okay. So Judy Barrett had done some work for the town and I think, you know, what, but Eric and I talked about with this one is, as Erica pointed out, the zoning has a big impact on the production of affordable units in town. And there is inclusionary zoning, but it hasn't seemed to, you know, because of the way it's written, a lot of new development has not had any affordable units included. And so it's something that the trust, you know, shouldn't be taking on itself. Obviously, it's within the purview of the planning board. But to work cooperatively, and maybe Rob has some ideas, but to revisit this with town staff and the planning board about what the trust's interests are. I would, I would wonder if people who have more experience, Pat or Carol or John, Nate, I remember all the struggles we went through trying to get zoning changes through the town meeting. Does anybody think it's going to be easier with town council? Oh, a lot easier. No, I think the, well, it can't get harder, but yeah, good job. One of the previous trust meetings, you know, I think I said I would work with Rob to write a letter to the planning board about different zoning measures. And I'm, it's still on my list. And I agree. I think zoning is a really powerful tool. It's not just inclusionary zoning. It's also, you know, how the town defines apartments right now and how it's permitted makes it really limited for different multifamily types of development of where and how it can be developed. So, you know, there's other ones too. So I think it could be, you know, I mean, it's interesting. I, not that the trust wouldn't write the zoning, but I think the trust would have to be a big proponent of it to encourage the planning board to investigate it. So, you know, with this whole 40R, for instance, it's been, you know, a year and a half or two years of 40R granted it was extended because of COVID. But, you know, just recently the planning board, after the last presentation, now some planning board members are saying, I think 40R might actually be worthwhile to pursue, but it took a year and a half to get there. And so I think, you know, for the next few years and maybe that the trust can help outline, you know, priorities in terms of zoning changes. So, you know, I, staff had done that a few years ago and I think that we could revisit it and strengthen it. So I do think that is really important. You know, you know, if there's a citizen petition, for instance, to change inclusionary zoning, you know, what does the trust, you know, the planning board might say, what does the trust think about that? And if we've already outlined a position, then we're ready to go. You know, even if we have some ideas about how we think inclusionary zoning could work better, I just, you know, once it gets into the petition or something happens, it's like, you know, we're almost retroactive trying to work with it, but it'd be great if we, right, got something out there first. Yeah, what I would say is that, you know, for some folks, it'd be a fairly sharp learning curve. And, you know, perhaps if there was a, not the entire trust, but if there was a subcommittee, you know, a few people, trust members who are willing to work on this and perhaps have some of your time. And I know Rob is, has a lot of expertise. So maybe he's willing to, to step up, but to kind of shape some policy suggestions about how the zoning might be friendlier multi-family production. Also happy to help with that. I've done my fair share of looking at different zoning and how it helps her does not help creation of housing. I also think that there's a little bit of an impetus now with Cambridge finally being able to pass the affordable housing overly district that basically covers the entire city. I know that summer bill is starting to do it now too because Cambridge is doing it. So I also think that there's potential possibility and it of course takes a lot of time to change zoning, but once you change it, it's, it, you know, it takes a long time, but I think the change can happen there. I remember it was enormously frustrating watching that process with the planning board going to town meeting and getting shot down because they didn't have the super majority and it just people felt like it was, you know, almost, you know, not worth the effort to try to get any changes to the zoning. But if there's really is a perception that there'll be an easier path now, I think it'd be great. Forty B is not enforceable here, right? You can't override the ZBA. So if there was a real concerted intentional plan to make affordable housing as of right, that would be awesome. Just to come back to Forty R for a minute, it was Rita and I with the support of the housing trust that wrote the grant proposal with assistance from Nate to mass housing finance to get support for consultants to come in and work with the town on Forty R. As Nate suggested, it has not been an easy process. And part of the reason it hasn't been an easy process is to be honest, it's not clear who's on first. It's not clear to me that the planning board remains in charge of our zoning bylaws. I believe at some point, the town council said, oh, we want the Community Resources Committee to do the work on developing zoning bylaws, not the planning board. Now, Pat, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But to me at the moment, there is some confusion about who's in charge or who's really tasked with the development of changes to the zoning bylaws at this point in time. There's a lot of confusion right now. We have a retreat on Saturday and one of the agenda items is council committees versus committees, council committee versus the planning board and the zoning board and who should be doing that work. And so right now, I was going to bring up CRC, which is called Community Resource Committee. And I feel like it interfered also with the affordable housing proposals for affordable housing plans that you had generated. And so if you wanted to participate in that meeting, it's an open meeting. That might be very helpful to talk about some of the kind of chaos that's been created by a council committee taking the responsibility from the committee that is really charged with the work. No. Well, since I've already butted heads with some of the people who are responsible for that, I'm not sure I wanted to participate. But I appreciate the invitation, Pat. Anything that you can send me around what you're thinking, John, would be helpful. And I could use it on Saturday when we're having this conversation. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So paying attention to time page 21. It's an update. First paragraph is just to really update. We saw that, you know, the just updated to ensure that it's clear that there was a merger that took place with the trust and that now operates with a nine board. It was just sort of clarification. So just on top of page 21, just on top right there where the green is. And so we don't have this in here, but it is one of our recommendations on the one pager, which is the subcommittees or work groups to really sort of define some of the subcommittees and work groups and also the responsibility that if you make a decision to be part of the Amherst Municipal Housing Trust, that you actually agree to volunteer to work on a committee. So that's sort of solidified. So when you start off, you can read it right there, which commitment is as a member to participate in that and to maybe even identify some committees that, you know, we might want to have a standing committees. Getting with the financing committee. Yes. I like that. I was muted for a second. I do like that because it's kind of the expectation. So we're not, we're not, you know, we're not catching people off guard thinking that, oh, you know, I can join the trust and I can tend to, you know, attend a monthly meeting, but that there is some expectation of additional work. So, you know, we just, for instance, we just have three new members on the block grant committee and, you know, some of the members are saying, oh, well, it looks like you just kind of do work in the fall to get proposals ready. And then that's it. I'm like, well, no, actually, you know, we have a public hearing in May and we may have to meet and we allocate funding and, you know, this and that. And they're like, oh, okay. But I think that if they just looked recently out, you know, the calendar, they think it's only, you know, a three or four month commitment. I mean, it is busy during those times. So, same thing with the trust. I mean, I think everyone knows it's a standing board or committee, but it'd be nice to think that, you know, there could be three or four working groups that they put their effort into. I do like that. There was something else that I read in here that I thought was really important that could also possibly be a committee. And that is to create a communication strategy and package and toolkit. I think, you know, a lot of us depend on John to get the information out. And then he lets us know about the hearings. And then we write, you know, our either our letters or we go to a hearing, but to actually have a strategy to keep affordable housing on the radar constantly and toolkits and possible, you know, quick messages that can be sent out or press releases or editorials. So, you know, that could be, you know, a committee as well, just to constantly keep it on the radar for Amherst residents how important this is. Okay, so the last one is the next page. And this is just to update the five year budget. So that was sort of our last recommendation for updating the strategic plan. And I agree or be interesting to look at how we've actually spent money over the last five years or three or four years, whatever it is that we could look at. Because this was Jen Goldson's idea about what we should strive for. And quite honestly, I don't think that housing trust as it was assembled then ever really looked carefully into this. I mean, Tom, you were around then, obviously Nate was around. I don't know if anybody else was. But I don't think we really tried to pick apart what Jen proposed. We just said, okay, looks good. Let's leave it in the plan. Rita, did I miss anything? No, I don't think so. That covers it. Well, I do want to move on to talking about property acquisition, for which we need to move into executive session. I appreciate the work that Erica, you and Rita have done on this. So do you want to vote on it, John, or is what will happen with the proposed revisions now? Well, I do want to do that at the next meeting. I think we should do it at the next meeting. There's, again, I think it was number eight, which we talked about broadening not to make it so narrow, that it just reflects on COVID and now that we've had a little bit of discussion, people may be in a better position to vote on it if we bring it back to the next meeting. That's what I would feel comfortable doing at this point. Trust members, no, you can also email comments to me and then I can shepherd them through to Rita and Erica. So if you have any other comments on this, you can always send me an email and then we can look at it again one more time. Okay, so thanks again for your work on this. I think that what you propose are not really dramatic changes, but things we've been kind of moving in this direction. But it makes sense to try to codify it as part of our public strategy for letting people know what the housing trust is wanting to do. So thank you. Okay, so now we need to move into executive session. We have two attendees. Well, I think I sent a link out to another. So I think like last time, John, the trust voted in public executive session, and then we closed this meeting and then I started the next meeting. And I'm going to leave and not participate in the executive session. So, okay, and I'll add you to the trust group email just to make sure I'm not sure I have yet, but thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, I've been sending things to you because I sent it to everybody on town council. Yeah, I want to make sure I'm considering it. Okay, so I move that we end our regular meeting at this point in time, which is about 35 minutes after eight and move into executive session for the purpose of talking about the acquisition of property for affordable housing. And as I think I said last time, we're doing this because the information that we're talking about is confidential, and it would affect the town's negotiating position or the trust negotiating position with respect to the seller or the property that we have in mind. So it's necessary that we end the public part of the meeting now. Is there a second? I second it. So I guess we need to do a roll call vote. So I vote yes, Tom. Yes, and I'm going to recuse myself. Right. Thank you. Carol? Yes. Erica? Yes. Rob? Yes. Francis? Yes. And I think I've got everybody who's here. Did I leave anybody out? No. Okay. You know, we don't have any more attendees now. Yeah, I think though the- We should do it anyway. Okay. As soon as someone could join and then okay. So everybody, Nate did send out an email maybe an hour or two hours before we're meeting now. So we need to switch to that Zoom link. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. I need to stop the recording and just do a few things. All right.