 Alright, thanks for staying with us now earlier this week, Chicago State University released the academic records of President Bola Ahmed Tinobu, following an order of a United State District Court in Northern Illinois. Attico had requested that Mr. Tinobu's Chicago State University academic records be released for use in the Nigerian Court to prove that he or the President forged the certificate that he submitted to the Nigerian electoral body, INEC, to participate in the February elections. Now his argument is that by allegedly submitting a forged certificate to INEC, Mr. Tinobu was not qualified to even contest in the first place. I recall that the President's election petition court in Abuja, in its judgment delivered in September dismissed the forgery allegations amongst other issues he and the other opposition candidate raised concerning the force as unproven. With this latest development on Tinobu's certificate, Saga tonight were asking should we focus as Nigerians on this or just move on. Now please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or what's up to 31 803-4663. So everybody is kind of like running away from this conversation. Let us just put out a disclaimer there. I didn't feel like talking about it, but that is the only thing in the news to talk about. And because again, when we start to talk about these things, people just feel like we like to attack the government. So you know what, sitting back and looking at our lives as Nigerians, what has led us to where we are is important for us to look backward then so that we can move forward. You see cases of people getting people to write their exams for them, you know, they get into a job they cannot function because why? The result was not even theirs in the first place. They did not use their brain to get that. You know, so Mary, let me come to you because Mary seems like she's about to go and switch off on us on this topic. But what do you think? Should Nigerians focus on this? No, don't focus. Because you seem not interested. Why would you say we shouldn't focus on the certificate? Because what it is telling you is that the foundation, if this is true, proven that his certificate was forged and this is a wrong certificate that was presented, or it's for somebody else. Right? Shouldn't we as Nigerians look at it that everything that has been built on that foundation is faulty? But they also satisfied that he did attend the school and he indeed did come out with a Bachelor of Degree in Accounting. Who? Yes, I was going to ask you. Paula Tinubu. No, who certified it? Who said who certified it? There's a report that says the Chancellor. Is it Chancellor? So you know, I've been very quiet on this, right? Because I've been waiting. Remember that when it was said that the result was released, there were just too many things floating the Internet, that now the proven that this result is genuine and all of that. I was waiting for the person that they handed over the results to. Atiku Abubaka. To come out and talk. And that's why I actually said I was not going to say a word on this until the person that they handed over the result to say take speaks. Because it seemed like there was so much agenda. Before now, they said the President had gone to different, I mean, appealing to the court that they should not release the result. He was going to read a lot of things, blah, blah, blah. You know, but they declined his appeal, right? So let me hear your thoughts, Dami. I mean, should we focus on this? I don't know, the answer is tricky because I could say yes we should because I mean, we demand accountability really. We can't just have a leader there who at this point feels like we did not put him there, but he's there. And then we just leave things to be, you know. But then again, on the other hand, should we focus on this? I would say no. Because the truth is like the Minister for Foreign Affairs said, I mean, like Minister for Foreign Affairs said, although I don't understand why he must have said that, but what he said was we are just focusing on frivolous things, frivolous issues, like we are not supposed to be focusing on this because even the international bodies that they are working with, they are very uninterested in the whole certificate saga. I mean, he made a very good point because we have more pressing issues in Nigeria. You know, we have infrastructural issues, because right now, I mean, there's a 40% increase on price of NEPAMITA. I don't know why. It may uniform 58K or something to 81K. So it's just really ridiculous. So we have quite a number of other problems to focus on, quite frankly. But then again, should we just leave it and say, okay, because we have other problems to focus on, we shouldn't focus on the actual one that we have at. And because I don't see a reason why first of all, a certificate was forged. And after the documents were given to Atiku, it was proven that so many things were wrong. First of all, identity theft, because also one who claims that he doesn't have a dual citizenship. Yeah, on the documents, it says it has a black American name, right? So it simply means that what was submitted to IMEC is not the correct one. If you claim that you don't have dual citizenship, do you get what I mean? So and then it's a female name that is on that. So I mean, we have only come here. And the certificate that was submitted to IMEC claims that somebody graduated in 1970. And the school that I think was the school now, Legos, they got into something. They graduated in 1974. 1970. And they were the school that was established in 1974. So I mean, how do we put all that together, really? So it's a cost to actually worry about, it's a cost for worry. But then again, maybe because the real Nigerian structure is structured in quotes, it might be safe to say we should just move on. Because the truth is that we're going to just keep dragging and dragging and dragging this issue. And at the end of the day, it is already what it is. We can only hope that the Supreme Court right now rules fair and square. That's the only hope. If the Supreme Court, like Atticus said, if the Supreme Court rules and they say he is wrong, so be it. If they say he is right, so be it. So that's like the only hope that we have left at this point. Okay, so the question is, should Nigerians focus on this or move on? I like the fact that you said it's tricky. And I'll tell you why, right? Because what has happened is if we have built our entire existence or our entire leadership structure on a lie, what this means is that, you see, every single time you go out, remember that we took a story. I don't know what it was now on our ranking of our passport. They have also demoted our passport, right? What it means is that wherever you go to as a person, right, the integrity that, you know, that the so the integrity will be measured based on some of these things. It's a different thing if nobody knew anything. Everybody just did horseshoes and all of that. The fact that certain things have been established, you know, I don't think we should move on from it. You know, I am not particular about whoever wins an election. And because again, I know some people who send some kind of nasty comments trying to say, oh, and I have told you, I'm not a journalist, right? I just, I am just someone that is a passionate human being. And I think I believe in what Nigeria can bring. And I'm passionate about this country enough to care for her and put my life at risk because even sometimes talking about these things is putting my life at risk, you know, because it seems like when you talk anything and it seems like it's an attack on the government, your life is at risk. But the point is I rather risk my life than keep quiet and allow certain things to thrive. When a certificate that you submitted, it's just like you going to get a job. You understand? You've gone to get a job and you have said that this is what you can do. You'll certificate everything, checks out, only for them to find out years later. You understand? How do we, how do we first of all trust that every other thing you're going to promise or every other thing you're going to bring forth, you will deliver? This is a case of integrity, it's a case of truth, right? It's a case of OKO, whatever my word is my bond. I mean, there are so many things that it stands on. So you can't just wake up. You know, it means that whatever you tell me, you now, two of you, you marry somebody and let me look at you very well. You that say you should move on. So you marry a man tomorrow, right? And the man tells you, oh, Mary and this, Mary and that, and all of that. And you now find out, you know, two years down the line, that this man, every single thing that he said he was, it was a thing that swindler. What would you do? This is your example. No, no, it is the same thing. It is the same thing. So that's what, so what? So wait, wait, wait. If you cannot walk away from it, what do you then do? If you cannot walk away from Nigeria. Yeah, exactly. If walking away, if walking away is not an option, what would be the option? I will move on from it. How? So you would accept it? I mean, Mary, Mary, I don't like your vibe this night. I don't know how you solve the problem. I don't know what else you want. Because she's not because of the hygienist blood. She's not because of the, you know, flogging the issue up and on. I definitely understand and it's sad because how can we have, I mean, it's bad enough that this integrity thing is something we used to do on a loan now. But now we have taken it to the international level. Our ogard top has come to say, you know, we don't have any integrity in this country. So even the individuals in the country must well not be truthful to ourselves. I mean, it's sad, but then. Because this is what you, what we have done quietly. Yes. If this is true, if it's true, right, we have endorsed impunity. Yes. We are for that. So there was, like you said, it was so too low key before we were doing it. But now we have endorsed impunity. We have endorsed dishonesty. We have endorsed everything that is wrong. Because, you know, some of the things that happen to us as a people, right, you cannot tell, I always say to people that, you know why I try as much as possible to run away from negative emotions. I've been there before with negative emotions. You can't tell the negative emotions that, no, I just want to be angry and let anger stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not possible. It's a ripple. It is something that is, it's very, it's very vicious. I mean, you may understand. It will consume your entire system. You don't even think straight anymore. So it is good to attack it. Wow. Don't even let it in. Yeah. Do you understand? So that's why no matter what anybody does to me, right, I keep it, you know, I, yeah, I can be angry, but I make sure that that anger does not come into my system. Because I've learned to master my emotions, to just make sure that there are some things you just keep aside. So this is how I am analyzing a lie. If something is built on a lie, what you will need to do to sustain it is that you don't need to keep on lying, lying. Do you understand? And you say with lies, it doesn't get any easier. It gets worse. You know, you have to not start fabricating things that do not exist. Just to sustain the initial lie that was told. So what would you, what would you like? To be the judgement of it. And not be the judge. No, no, like, no, no, no. Let's end this show. No. No, please, let's end this show. No, you don't want us to walk away with it. No, wait, wait. So what do you say, you know, on the flip side, I think many people just, many people are just concentrating on the fact that President Timur has the cognitive capacity. So actually considering that he's been like a two-time governor, you know, he's, he's been up there in the political space, you know, he's been people's godfather as a matter of fact. So they are like, I mean, he's the man for the job anyway. So why are we focusing on the fact that he doesn't have his certificates? We just want to know, there's no consignals. He's suffering outside these two modes. Where are you going? If they want to lie, lie that way. Please, can we just have I really can't have it. Be helpful, like, call on my bags. You go out and write here every day and it's affecting me. That's my issue. My goodness. Certificate is very my problem. Okay, he has come in now. You see, exactly. He has come in now at what is happening. We're moving from worst to worst. That is exactly what the minister of foreign affairs said. Like we are just focusing on what is not, I mean, what it is important quite all right, but is it as important right now? And every individual too, who is not truthful, is going to backfire because even abroad, I heard there, you know, telling people to bring for their certificates to verify. So if you're a liar to, if you want to join your leader in the lying case, you might as well, you know, say to the end, if you want to lie. You know what? Let's take a break. I want to open up a phone. Like, please, you put your call on me. Because I know that's not, you've just used your mouth to say what will happen eventually. Thanks for staying with us. If you're just tuned in, it's our Lady's night out. And that me and Mary, I don't understand them this night. We're discussing the Tino Bo certificate saga and we're asking, should Nigerians focus on this or just move on from it? And please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 08-1-803-84663. You can also send, call our phone line. The phone line is now open. Please, the number to call is 070-250-7749. That's the number to call. Remember to turn off the volume of whatever devices you're watching us from so we don't get a feedback. See, Mary, you used your mouth to just bury yourself. Because you said, first of all, let's just move on. Let the economy work in. But what you said before we went on a break that people are being called up now. Do you understand? And what are they lying before? Why are they lying before? It's just the very same reason somebody has lied. It's just to verify the certificate now. And so, what did they lie before? So every stone is going to be turned now now. So everybody buckle up. If you know your free, then I don't think we should have it. We have nothing to hide. Yeah, we have nothing to hide. Because I was even going to say that why was Tinibu trying to plead rather with what's he called now? Is it the district court of U.S. that they should not release the certificate and documents rather to article? That's because he knew that he was hiding something and then he didn't want it to be exposed. But then again, I think that the reason why many people are not even particularly keen on this entire subject is because of the person that is in quotes fighting for justice. Because I think he himself is lowkey. I think I feel like maybe the presidency theme is in the air. I mean, so he wants to. That's not fair. No, no, no. Because that's not fair. We have to tell that. Wait, wait, that's not fair. Let's take a look at the other party. Thank you, thank you. Go ahead. In your life, it's a volume up. One of our late singers said argument, argument, argument, argument, argument, argument. Are you? Are you being moved? You will be moved. So is he the joy about this whole thing is that I once met a lawyer friend, he told me that. Them as lawyers. They don't lie. They are just elastic with the truth. From the way I hear that English, that English, I just come down. I call them thinker. How can you be elastic with the truth? I want to define what it means to be elastic, so if you draw truth from Lagos Island to maybe Ajagwune, it's been elastic, the truth no go caught and it's not entered and in Orishan destination. So being elastic with the truth means that it's never going to be there but it's not a lie. So for me, I want to personally tell you guys that nobody lied just that they did not say the truth. In this country, see one day our savior will come but as far as I'm concerned, let me just tell you the truth. We don't have one chance along both because our integrity is in check and one point about Nigeria is that I don't really understand. Nigeria issues are so different that everybody plays an interest in it. Everybody listens to Nigeria issues. Everybody wants to know the outcome. And nobody will say anything to you, but they'll just keep it in the archive. I wonder where you meet, where you say anything around the world. They say, is it not your social person that did those things and they want you to judge you that you'll be so calm that you can't even say anything. So basically, our integrity is hanging on the balance. So let's just keep on running the Confucian like that, before you know it, until last time, many months now. Before you know it, we've been out there, out here, anywhere around the world, to do on the side of reality, the Confucianism. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hey, it was a lot more. Nobody lied. They did not just tell the truth. They did not tell the truth. This 2023 election and all the drama that has happened afterwards has shown me that never say never. See, I can't fabricate anything, I'll be justified. But literally, we have redefined so many things. Whatever happened to morality. Now, let me answer you about Artiku. And he said it, that it's not because Artiku wants to be president. It's because what needs to be done, we must uphold our hero's past, we must uphold it. It's like pot calling Ketou Black. So please, please, please, please, please, I mean, Artiku is just fighting because, no, no, no, well, because he lost. If he didn't lose, because why then is he calling on Kuan Kuan so and pick our bait to let us uphold justice. So it's like, is Artiku really fit to say we should uphold justice? I mean, like I said, it's like, it's the case of pot calling Ketou Black. So I think that's the reason why many people are not really keen on it. They're like, with integrity, we really stand. If someone like us, you can do on that. So the reason I would say that we should move on, you understand? The reason I would say that we should move on, but let me take a color first. Let me take a color. Hello, you're live. Good evening. Good evening. Nice. I would say, let's move on. Let's move on. Let's move on. Because our president has to do it everywhere. Our president is in the police. Our president is in the police. Our president is in the division. Our president is in the government, I tell you. Our president is in the police car. So if you don't do anything after this thing, and you don't want to do anything, if it will do an effort in putting it in, please, article, let go off. But let posterity do us, because it is so awful if an awful secret that our president doesn't force article to go. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. So I mean, Loma just took the work out of my mouth. The reason I would say that we should move on from this is not because it is not worth having, like, dwelling on. But you see, when you're fighting against a system that you are not 100 percent sure of the integrity of justice, right? So it's a fighting futility. But you see, like you rightly said, let posterity enjoy. Like, okay, yes, we did our part. We fought it. Because again, some will tell you that the only reason some of these court proceedings, you know, the appeal and all of that happened is because people don't want Nigerians to come and say, see now, because if they had kept quiet, it would be like, they were not even ready for it in the first place. But the fact that they are following it through, which is not a common practice in Nigeria, that the fact that they are following it through shows that, okay, yes, at least to some extent, they are trying to fight, you know, for the right thing. And the right thing is if the Supreme Court comes out back and says that, you know what off me? Let me say what the one that just off me. May I use Jezeela with the one way off me. It was when they cut throughout everything, they cut throughout all the everything, saying nothing was substantial. Ah, come on. Let's take a call out. Good evening. Hello, are you alive? Good evening. Go ahead, please. Okay, go ahead, please. I continue with what we are. If you want to work with people in this country, be somewhere with them, and it has to come from the head. Whether it's something that you bring to life, and succeed in the material, the material thing that I want to gain something about is function. The most important thing to do something about it, whether we need to be fixed or not, you know, not what you should consider to be fixed. What do they subject to the criminal issue? It's bigger than what I think we do, it's bigger than what I think we do, it's bigger than what I think we do, it's bigger than what I think we do. So, how do we find the things that are right in this country? I mean, well, the only thing that is right is that children are getting some money. So, I think we should allow people to go through the process, but at the end of the day, people will know that our children are not working in their own world. It's not a hundred people. It's something in the matter of whether or not something that has to come from the standard that certain people just have no place in our political life. Absolutely. So, let's follow through. Thank you so much, and I didn't catch his name. Thank you so much. I mean, do you understand? Because it is the normal thing to just, in Nigeria, you know what? We are actually, we easily give up. The thing, the edge, the edge that politicians have over us is our, what do I call it, lack of resilience. Do you understand? The thing is not working. You know, Nigerians are the kind of people that you will drive to a wall, they will bore a hole and keep going inside the wall. They will not come back to fight. So, this is the first time we're seeing, I mean, look at even the gubernatorial candidate that didn't win in Lagos. He's still doing stuff, unlike what we used to see with Jimmy Abadie, that he merely elections is over, he just goes quiet and comes back again another four years. So, we want to start to see a new crop of, what's he called, leaders, because again, maybe to change the minds of people. So, I mean, the truth is, this is a big issue. It's a criminal offence. The kind of offence that this has happened, that is, this one is the same. You can put it side by side with Hosh Popi, as far as I'm concerned, because a lie is in life. It's flawed. It's not, are we saying that it is okay to have fraudulent people at the helm of affairs? What it means is that you will never find justice in your life. What it means is that you will never, you know, but let's take another caller, your lie. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Go ahead please. Yeah. And quickly, we should leave the certificate issues and focus on Nigerian governance, right? Thank you so much Gabriel. So, I want to explain something from my business mindset. I will not go to politics. So, there was something that used to happen when I was actively in retail business. I grew to the point where my suppliers would give me good what, 10 million, five million. This was, I'm talking about 10 years back, just because I will never take a penny. Even sometimes when they oversupply me, they don't know, I return it back to them. Integrity is the bigger currency for any economy, because there's a way that you would have so much integrity that your people would trust you enough to want to do business for you and bring us out of this lacuna that we're calling, you know, an economic crisis. Do you understand? When people don't even trust you to uphold the truth, then you are a problem. Now, a lot of people have done businesses based on trust. You understand? I know that Dami, if I give her good what, 100 million Naira, she will sell it and return my capital. In the time that we have agreed, I will give her 10 billion tomorrow. And I know that she would also repay. So, integrity is not a subject to push over. It's a subject that affects everything. It affects one, it affects all. When we have a system that is literally working against us, how do we fight these things? I think that's the problem. Because to fight it is not the problem. It's how to even fight it that is the problem. Because you say, when these politicians, the people at the top, it's easy for them to fight certain things like what Attico is doing right now. I don't think a common person would have been able to go that far. You don't have the money. You don't have the means. See? That's my point. So, I mean, when you say Nigerians are just, you know, maybe they're a bit laid back. You can't blame an average Nigerian because I feel like I've seen Nigerians try. But then because of the kind of system that we have, it is working against us. And at the end of the day, nobody wants to sacrifice their lives just because of a Nigeria that has refused to work. Let's take another caller. You're alive. Go ahead. Good evening. Go ahead. My name is Dr. Fahin from Agudia. I called earlier. So you didn't get my name. If Fahin is from Agudia. So I'll tell you, like what you said, the problem of Nigeria is the issue of integrity. Whether we like it or not, nobody wants to do business with the Freudian country. The Naira is falling. Investments are not coming in. As in terms of the fact that we have not, we're not a country of integrity. So we cannot continue to hand over our children this kind of country. We must, they must be stopped. The guy was saying that the system is so strong. Why would we want to be strong? If the system is wrong, it will be strong for the few who want to do the right thing. But if the system is right, it will be strong for those few people who want to do the right thing. So we must build a system of integrity. If this country must survive. So our mindset must not change. The reason why we can't find the police today is because it's a corrupt system. So integrity is key to whatever, whatever. So what are people able to do today, whether you like him, whether you hate him, is doing the right thing. We must hold our leaders to account. If I hold my leaders to account and hold people to account, we want the country of integrity. And that's the beginning. That's the mindset I want. Let's all start with having a kind of mind. We cannot be bred and bought our economy. What I'm going to meet, what I'm not going to meet. No. The reference you made about a retail business, people can give you millions. I know this was to go to China and collect millions. But we bought it on the fact that we are later upgrading and we're not going to be on that road. Look at what was in our countries. Our present is in Foja. So what are we going to do? He's destroying the system. Thank you. Let's move politics. Not to defy. Both on changing the system. Absolutely. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much. Mary. Go ahead. No, you were going to say something. Yeah, I think the only thing I just have to ask is, are we ready? That's it. It's okay to banter here about it, but are we ready? I think I watched the movie. I don't remember the name. It had default or something. Her child was wrongly killed and everything and she fought. Yeah. She fought. She didn't win regardless, but I think almost 10 years after before there was justice for it. So the question I would say again is, are we ready? Because it's a long fight. Because you remember that even during Bwari's time, we were also doubting that Bwari went to Secondary School. Like you said in Pijing, the matter is long. It's long. Do you get it? You know what I'm even saying to you guys? I've said this several times that in Nigeria, they say to enter politics or whatever. You just need a living school certificate. You don't even need a university degree and all of those things, right? So in all honesty, right, as, as, yeah, don't bring your primary school certificate. Except if you are trying to tell me now that there is no primary school certificate. But even the Secondary School that he went to, he graduated before it was established. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. No, no, no, no. My first wish in Nigeria could be better, really, really and truly. I think it's in the right thing regardless of whether we like him or whether it's even for his own selfish interest or not. Like our last caller actually said, he's in the right thing. Well, the Supreme Court has it also. At the end of the day. Integrity. Integrity, integrity. That's my final word. You Auntie, what are you so far your word? He said with you. Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you ready to fight? My final word is please Supreme Court, because that's the highest court in Nigeria. You should please rule this case fair and square. They should also be aware of the political tactics of these politicians because both presidents, Bola Metinubu and even Attiku himself are both playing a political game here. So the Supreme Court should be very, very careful. Yeah, the court being honest. See, these are the issues. I just let me not say that one. But the court is also in on this. That's why I'm saying that I hope that you can actually rule this case square and fair. If they rule square and fair, then I think that we are good. Otherwise, we move. We continue. We move. We move. We move. We continue in our wahala. Wahala. Do I have something to say? I feel like I have benefited a lot from just being my honest self. Right from when I was a child. My father to, you know, yeah, we might not have a lot of things, but at least, you know, there are some things that will point out to say, yes, we did this and we're proud of those things. And, you know, that fulfillment is something you cannot even buy, even if you had billions. If I were the president, you asked the question earlier, if I were the president, if this is really true, that there was a Ford certificate and yours are forgiving people. People have already actually even said they should just let him be, let him continue. Yeah. That's the right thing. But what we just need is some level of admittance and honesty to say, you know, well, yes, this was done, you know, but because I need to get this done. And let's see some level of honesty, but that's never going to happen, because we can never admit. An African parent. So admit that they are wrong. We apologize, you know, that we couldn't take comments. I don't know what happened today, but I think we couldn't take comment. But thank you so much. Now, before we go, thank you, Mary and Dami. I think we had fun. Even though we're running away from the topic. Thank you to all the people that are called, because your call helped us to keep quiet. Before we go, I'm sure you follow us across all our social media handles at Wayshoe Africa. You can interact with us further, listen to our podcasts as well on Spotify at Wayshoe Africa. Make sure to share like and share with families and friends to also invite them to watch and follow the conversation. Now, if you missed our quote from the minister of interior, you said there is a tendency, foreign affairs, a tendency to always try to distract people on such frivolous, that's not a frivolous issue, young man, as opposed to facing the major issues of development. We don't have time to waste on that. This is from Yousuf Tugha, uncle, foreign minister of affairs. It's not a time wasting time, because it's going to affect your integrity as a country. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. There must have been another great conversation to your screen. Ciao.