 Let the record reflect that on cultural heritage board All board members are present except for chair de shazo and board member de bacher and On design review board all board members are present except for board members Weigel and Zuko Yeah, John McHugh now. We're live. Thank you Yeah, let the record reflect that for cultural heritage board John McHugh is absent And for the recording and those listening on TV the meeting was called to order previous to roll call Moving on to board business this is where Vice chair person and I will read the purpose of both of our boards Statement of purpose per zoning code chapter 20 dash 5 52 030 f project review The review authority shall consider the location design site plan Configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties and the city in general Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements And I will turn it over all right. Thank you The cultural heritage boards Statement of purpose reads as follows the cultural heritage board shall consider the following matters standards guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable in determining whether to grant or deny a permit To it whether the per the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the building Whether the proposed change is compatible with any adjacent or nearby landmark structures or preservation district structures Whether the colors textures materials fenestration decorative features and details Proposed are consistent with the period and or are compatible with adjacent structures whether the proposed change destroys or adversely affects an Important architectural feature or features and then finally we are charged to consider the secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings such other matters Criteria and standards as may be adopted by resolution of the cultural heritage board. Thank you And now I would like to move on to public comment I will open the hearing for public comment There's a time when any person may address matters not listed on the agenda But within the subject matter of the jurisdiction i.e. design review board a cultural heritage board public may comment on agendized items as they come up and You'll have three minutes right now. I've got one card for Dwayne Duit But if you haven't filled out a card, please feel free to speak after mr. Duit's time just raise your hand and give us your name at the podium. Thank you Hello, thank you. My name is Dwayne Duit. I'm from Roseland good new year to all I wanted to talk with you about a very important matter involving Roseland, which has now been a part of the city in some places for many decades and in other places for 14 to 15 months and The dilemma is now in this Deregulated disaster capitalism atmosphere that we have People are just rushing forward to go and do projects without necessarily looking at the cultural heritage that Roseland has had for over a century Roseland's been around as long as Santa Rosa and yet Santa Rosa pretty much controls the way things go The dilemma that we face is that we're basically a disadvantaged underserved and overburdened community That essentially is an afterthought and almost everything that boards commissions and city employees do It's something that I've been talking about for a long time But I don't really know if it's ever had any effect And I'm hoping that maybe in the next few years there may be an opportunity For authentic community engagement with Roseland residents to do what Roseland folks would like to see happen with their cultural heritage with their buildings that they see as Important an example that some of you may not know is called bear farm Bear farmhouse was a beautiful place And it was a spot that everyone who lived in Roseland knew about Because it was still a nice farm in the center of Roseland when the city decided that they would do a park there because of some Nebulous comments about there may be asbestos They tore the farmhouse down Even though citizens wanted it to stay pretty much And it was like well, that's just the way it goes Then we got ourselves a really lot of Concrete they came in and put down more concrete than you could imagine in that former area of the farm Left a little garden off to the side Put some money into a barn and said oh yeah, that's important, but they don't let anybody use the barn Then they built a really expensive building out there that you have to rent if you want to use it You can't use the bathrooms in the rental unit unless you rented it. You can use porta potties Now is that any way to treat a community that you've just welcomed into Santa Rosa say hey, you know You can't use the bathrooms we built you got a random But we got a porta potty over there for you And that's how most folks think at least in Roseland that you're treating us that we're just essentially the afterthought porta potty and That we need to get some kind of voice here with you folks So I'm hoping you folks will start to tell staff because that's what it's all about the entrenched bureaucracy They control everything not us maybe not even you But at least if you were to put it into writing and say that yes You want to make sure that Roseland residents have a voice and saving our cultural heritage out there And that it should be something that's looked at when any project comes forward Involving the Roseland area which some of you may know is 1.2 square miles Reaching from the other side of the freeway right over there all the way out to stony Point Road and all the way down to Herne Avenue. It's a lovely area, and I'm hoping someday in the future. You'll get to come see it We once did a tour on Rosie the tour bus and brought out members of a redevelopment project area committee and city staff to come and actually see Some of Roseland where they never go and we've brought the bicycle advisory committee on a bike ride through some of it And I'm off to see them because through some quirk of scheduling They're also meeting at the same time as you but I may be able to stay for an item or two Just in case I'm not able to help mr. Derringer get his project up and running and for scoping of the Downtown specific plan let the people in on it not just what staff wants. Thank you Thank you, mr. Duit and thank you for joining us on the walking tour today and Continuing with the discussion. I believe everybody Enjoyed the walking tour and Patrick's given several of them And so I think your point to bringing people out to the Rosalind area and seeking public input is a good one So thanks for bringing that up All right I'm in Okay, moving on statements of abstentions by board members. Do we have any abstentions for my board? Seeing none. I will move it over to your board Any abstentions anyone? I Think for item two. This is a pre we've seen this project come through before So those of you who? Noted that you had done site visits in the past those will still stand. Yes Thank you. That's a good point Okay, well then moving on to item seven point one study session for the downtown station area specific plan update scope and visioning I'll turn it over to Patrick Thank You chair crincade vice chair percer and members of the boards I'm Patrick Streeter with the planning and economic development department and the Item before you is a study session for the downtown station area specific plan update We do have a downtown station area specific plan it was adopted in 2007 and The purpose of the plan was to create a vision and a development path for the area around the future Sonoma Moran area rail transit smart station. It was a 20-year plan Part of the vision was roughly 3,400 new units within the plan area We are now halfway into the plan's lifetime and Only 100 units have been realized while we've had a little more success coming towards the vision of Non-residential development, so we're a little less than halfway there as far as non-residential floor area The plan has not been realized in the way that it was intended 11 years ago and so part of this project is to update the plan and and Try to determine Where there were stumbling blocks in the plan, but also to make it a plan that is more appropriate for the the current time and current conditions in the city This came about because earlier in 2018 the council during goal setting adopted a new set of priorities They included downtown development and downtown housing as tier one priorities in response Staff applied for and received a grant through the Metropolitan Transportation Commission MTC and that's a planning grant and the purpose was to open up the downtown specific plan and prepare an update a Request for proposals was issued and the planning and consulting firm diet and Baccia was selected So I do have members of our consultant team present for this presentation and answering questions as well It's important to note that the downtown station area as far as the plan goes extends far beyond just the Courthouse square that's a lot of as the downtown core or railroad square, which is thought of as the historic downtown It includes several residential neighborhoods. It includes preservation districts And it includes commercial corridors the original plan was focused around the smart station, which is now in operation and The vision was for walkable transit oriented development. So it looked at Development within walking distance, which is considered typically a half mile of the of the transit station and had a vision for pedestrian friendly development as well as the commercial and Residential development that I'd mentioned earlier as part of this plan We are still looking at the smart station, but we're extending our perspective to also include the downtown transit mall Which is adjacent to courthouse square or to yeah courthouse square and as part of that we are extending the boundary of the plan area it previously ended on D Street East Street and we'll be expanding it to the east to reach out to Brookwood Avenue That's also consistent with our definition of the downtown core in the general plan So the scope of this update involves 10 different tasks one of them is the project commencement and Community engagement strategy. We are commencing the project now Last week the project might be for council and they adopted our community engagement strategy task to is decrease is the background analysis, so Putting together what's called a priority development area profile. That's a requirement from MTC as part of the grant And also determining what the existing conditions are so that will inform us on how the plan can move forward Task three is a component of the project throughout so During the planning of even beginning this update, but now that we're in the update Community outreach engagement is a major component We feel that we as staff learned some valuable lessons from the Roseland specific plan which was recently done the annexation specific plan and so we hope to utilize the lessons learned from that outreach which we consider to have been successful and Cast an even broader net with with this and develop even more engagement as part of this process We would then develop land use and circulation alternatives, so Basically how the plan is going to look forward And some different options on how we would do that how we'd approach approach the plan then based on feedback from our boards and Commissions from staff and from our various forms of outreach. We would settle on what's called a preferred plan So that's the one that we're going to then invest the the analysis into We would do analysis on infrastructure and services that's to make sure that the plan is feasible Which would result in our draft downtown station area plan So that would be the draft of the plan again sent out for comment to try to try to refine it at that point and to the type of plan that's going to be best realizing the city's vision But also something that's feasible that can be implemented The zoning regulations in general plan would be amended to then incorporate that plan and that extends beyond just those two documents our bicycle and pedestrian master plan our Creek master plan The the city bus routes kind of everything that's adopted will be updated to be consistent with that plan We would do the necessary environmental analysis associated with it So as was mentioned there is an existing plan. So some of that analysis has been done So we'd look at the the delta the change in what's being proposed and what sort of an environmental analysis needs to be done to accommodate those changes to the plan and Lastly, there'll be one final outreach for comment And then it'll be before our planning commission for recommendation and the council for final adoption of the specific plan We have an aggressive schedule Typically Plans of this type could take two years and up The fastest we've done it has been 18 months. We're looking to have this plan completed by the end of summer early fall So it is an aggressive timeline and typically Our boards and commissions see the plan when we're at that draft plan phase that I had mentioned previously So this is a new way of approaching it is bringing it forward at the very beginning so we can we can get the input and Catch any red flags, but also get an understanding of where we should be going with this plan at the very beginning So last week we had a joint meeting of the planning commission in the council this week We're meeting with cultural heritage board and design review board and we'll also be forming a community advisory committee Which will be members of the community to kind of act as ambassadors and bring in information from the broader community And also disseminate that information So we'll be having a meeting of that group pretty soon as well as stakeholder interviews and workshops to to really Get as many voices around the table as we can as early as we can And so that's a rough idea of the scope the the purpose of this meeting is really to Present it to these boards to receive your comments first we'd address any questions that the boards might have then to ultimately receive the comments and And get an understanding of of where you'd like to see the project moving forward and so that can be broad as far as Broad policy concerns down to specific. Hey, there's a parcel over here that you might want to look at There's something unique about it or Pet projects that you'd like to see made part of this plan. We want it all that's the purpose of this study session As I said, I'm available at Jessica Jones is also available for questions And we have Andrew Hill and Steve can see on from our consultant group as well Great. Thank you Patrick before I open up for public comment. I think I'll take questions from the board that way it might develop some more dialogue about what Where we go from here. So we'll start with my board if that's okay. All right, Sabra any questions for staff This is an aggressive schedule and I find myself wondering How you're going to be able to really pull it in the communities many of the people who live In and near this area are not regular participants in city government so there's a barrier to break through right there and relying on Electronic communications is also a barrier because many of the people Who live in this area are either way too busy to deal with a slew of emails or they are people who are not interested in Living right next to their smartphone to get things from the city. So They're not going to sign up. You're not going to get their names. How are you going to find them? No, thank you for bringing that up as I mentioned outreach is a major component of this project and we are looking at Barriers to getting voices around the table. So like I said, there were many lessons learned from Rosalind One of those is the hours. So if we have a workshop in the middle of the day, we're not going to get all the voices around the table So it's it's catering to other people's schedules, not city staffs. It's providing things like childcare and food But also the as far as getting the message out the community advisory committee It's not a steering committee. It's not a decision-making body. The purpose is to Bring representatives in from as many groups as possible. And so we're looking at The preservation districts. We're looking at the council districts. We're looking at business owners But we're also reaching beyond Santa Rosa. So we're looking at potential users of the downtown transit riders Employment centers people who are Retirement age and downsizing or students who are looking to strike out on their own So we're trying to cast a broad net and through the community advisory committee having representatives from those groups As part of our process at the table then being able to go out and and spread the message and Inspire engagement get get their groups to be a part of the process through our different outreach types And I would also add to that again kind of building on what we did with the Rosalind specific plan and annexation We went out to people you know, there was a Large community there that also same with this does not typically get involved in these types of of meetings and Projects so we went to them. We went door-to-door knocking on doors handing out flyers to get people to come to our meetings we also reached out to neighborhood groups and Asked if we could come to them to meet with them. So we sat in people's backyards And answered questions and provided information We went to businesses sat in their banquet rooms and chatted with them and like Patrick said, you know We really tried to do this at all different hours of the day days of the week with You know various amenities like, you know, breakfast at breakfast time, you know snacks at snack time dinners whatever and providing the child care and things for kids to do so We it was a extremely successful process with Rosalind and we intend to bring that to this process and go beyond You tell the fundamentally the principle behind it is you don't ask people to come to the mountain you bring them out into people So be interested. I'm Christian member if you have any suggestions of other Places and ways so, you know because we it's all about Starting where people are at and engage in them where they're comfortable I would personally piggyback on some of the existing places that people congregate People from all levels. So I'd go to the libraries Yeah, and that's another aspect of this is that we won't just be holding workshops and meetings and asking people to come to us We will be going to any events that are happening in and around the downtown as well as other places throughout the city because really downtown is Is the entire city's downtown? So, you know, it's wherever there is an event Again, the same thing we did with Rosalind if there was an event We were there with our information and gathering information from other people. So that's another way that we will be doing it So libraries as you can Connect with people who will act as ambassadors who will communicate with their neighborhoods I would consider doing a presentation in front of our school PTO's the having a safe Energized downtown makes families happy any other questions Eric, thank you. I applaud the the city's effort to be as aggressive in its timeline because it helps show our commitment to Making this a priority. So I greatly appreciate that the One one of the questions I have is the I've lost track of the current status of the downtown special assessment tax, I'm not sure if I'm using the correct term and Can you tell me what the status of that is and how that might be folded into the study There's a certain downtown area that was going to be I think for businesses that was going to be tax per square foot That rings a bell So, yeah, that that has moved forward. It's I think it's being assessed and they I Think the first visible sign of it. You'll see is they'll have they're actually calling them ambassadors as well They'll have Downtown ambassadors that will be on the on the streets So that's probably the the first visible sign of that district that you'll see but it is it's in operation presently and we do have a Downtown subcommittee for our council they meet once a month and as part of this process will be delivering updates to them But that's also a good it's a public meeting and it's a good opportunity to hear Kind of the other initiatives that are taking place downtown and get updates from those as well Thank you, and then the Santa Rosa Metro Chamber downtown merchants association Where do they play a role in this in the study? So that that's a stakeholder group that we are talking to you right now, and that would be Again casting the broad net that's that's one of those stakeholder groups that we're trying to get as much input from as that we can That's it. Thank you Thank you Eric, and I was remiss and not welcoming a new board member earlier So I'll do that now before I call on him to speak Adam Sharon has joined us So, thank you for participating in short notice and being at the meeting today value your input Thanks very much. Thanks for having me a couple of Thoughts you you have addressed kind of to piggyback off what Sabra and Eric talked about in terms of outreach I'm curious about you mentioned lesson learned lessons learned from the Roseland outreach effort If you could expound upon that things you're gonna be maybe doing differently or you know incorporating into This new effort because it is it's pretty aggressive, which is it's great this timeline and then my second thought is any any any thoughts of increasing the The outreach, you know, you've mentioned city-wide, but you know We are the county seat also of interfacing, you know, is there any discussions with other cities? Is there any you know going to farmers markets in other towns or with schools? You know Pete because we are that regional center Are we bringing the you know where are the cities downtown? But we're in the in essence that you know the counties downtown too so any thoughts about doing that I know that that's really reaching far afield, but yeah, thank you Sure, I can touch on the Roseland piece. I was the project manager for that. So I have a little bit of knowledge I would say that I Don't know that we had a negative Aspect to that. I think it was all positive and I think if you talked to most people they would tell you that It was a journey for us, you know, we started before we started that process most of the time we were doing kind of the typical planning process, which was workshops, mailed notices and not much else and so we really You know tried to work very hard and we worked very closely with our community engagement office and Steve Kansy and was a part of our group Going through that process as well and he has a lot of knowledge from you know living and growing up here as well and so It was it was really just about trying to understand that community And figure out how we could reach the people that just generally don't come to our meetings and so we learned through that process What worked and I really don't feel like we had a sense of what didn't work because it most of what we tried worked It was you know on the ground knocking on doors going to people going to PTA meetings Sitting like I said in people's backyards and really that was the core of what worked well And that's what we want to build upon One example that complements what Jessica just added was so we What we wanted things we could learn was to be flexible to respond to what we heard So we had successful initial workshops One of the things we heard where there were some very particular concerns that had to do with How long grandfathered industrial uses Remain grandfathered if they were empty and it quickly gets very technical if you're not one of those people or To what degree you could or couldn't have a mobile vent food vendor near a restaurant and it quickly gets very technical So the workshops work to surface that but what we did differently then in Rosen is we then actually went out and talked to folks cart to cart and then had meetings in restaurants and we walked the streets Between Sebastopol and the 12th and there's a whole world back there if you haven't walked all the little streets and Talked to folks and then had a meeting of people who have those in small industrial uses So and we couldn't have recognized that before we started so it's that Flexibility to respond to what turn out to be the particular issues that people really care about That you might not have known it and then what's the right forum for the people that it affects when where do you sit? So it turns out that you know SNS trucking skikos is a great place to have a meeting if you want to sit with light industrialists You know or La Fondita if you want to sit with the restaurant community Sure, and then that's that's really great that you're talking about doing really going to the to the people Another thought and I'm certain you're thinking about it with especially with downtown You've got daytime population nighttime population, you know and just Really being certain to address those things And if I may ask to be sure there in terms of the county. We're obviously We're working to use taxpayer taxpayers resources very carefully right so yeah Would you have particular suggestions on how we could concisely capture some of that county perspective? I'm not sure and I'm not certain you know being you know pretty green at this meeting as well on either how Those resources can be allocated to need to be within city limits, you know things like that But you know really just thinking about cooperation with other Municipalities and with you know unincorporated County I'm wondering if that's possible because people do come here and then you know Yeah, and the scope of our outreach does go beyond current residents So we're looking at future residents so that includes evolving Sonoma State I was at a meeting of the North Bay Yimbies the other night And so so we handed out information on the project there and a lot of the participants there are not Santa Rosa residents But they are very much involved in Santa Rosa's downtown as Sonoma County residents or North Bay residents So we are we are expanding the net beyond the city limits and and we'll look for different avenues that we can do that Okay. Yeah, I mean especially with the focal point of of courthouse square now. It's you know that regional. It's ideally pulling everyone in you know Thanks Yeah, go ahead Eric. Sorry one follow-up question your comments made me think of it was Are you also reaching out to some of the local government agencies such as the County of Sonoma was looking at putting the courthouse downtown talking to the Postal Service the state the state for the state building and the feds for the Fed building because Not sure those are so solid or maybe in transition and certainly can Make a major change with downtown. So How do you is that the plan to reach out to them and get them and at least their input for some of the scope of this Yeah, so I mentioned our community advisory committee another group that we're putting together as a technical advisory committee and The purpose of that is to bring in expertise from different agencies. So we'll have the city departments the Transportation Public Works planning economic development, but it'll also include County departments. It'll include agencies like smart and Sonoma County transit So that that's an opportunity to bring those other agencies to the same table as well. So it's we're doing the community outreach to get the The residents and the community members and then the technical advisory committee is kind of a way to get those different agencies and jurisdictions involved as well So and we also have beyond just the downtown specific plan update. There are a number of downtown initiatives going on We have a website called up downtown that has a lot of information on it, but our The economic wing of our planning and economic development department is working very closely with the county and and others on all of those sites that you mentioned and the potential to bring county services downtown and and others other ideas about, you know Revitalizing our downtown with housing and whatnot. So yeah, we are in constant contact with all of those various agencies Warren I wanted to thank staff for the the continuing vision of downtown and I had a couple questions and thoughts On a capital basis, I know there's task number six, which is about capital When you look at infrastructure, there's Appears to be there. There's two major motions One is we already have with a square proper City as theater and it's it's a place at night to convene have cultural exchange City as work city at housing Don't necessarily have to be at odds, but I'm familiar with all the various thoughts of the county Perhaps the county facility is a place for housing and the downtown is a place for civicness One of the models since you're you're thinking about other cities many many years ago Actually in the 1800s Emeryville was a a free spirited place. It was it was sanctioned Pixar chose Emeryville because of its fluidness its flexibility it had a lot of transit It brought jobs the capital that came from a private sector group versus a government sector And I'm looking at Ashley here because the mechanisms legally to engage the federal government The state and the county and how that nexus works over time and how you pay back You don't you don't build a 40-story building to house the government and not have a payback schedule It's it's not a free fall But the whole question about whether a Significant new employer might be closer to Santa Rosa What would an employer on the county campus have jobs there and housing be downtown or Is the mix some kind of a blend of the two in the downtown. I know a The health of the downtown has often been Aspiring to people living downtown as a and we can talk about all kinds of communities Europe and here so the question about how to balance housing and how to look at high-rise buildings with a whole different code structure and how to one of your tasks in your in your Schedule is building prototypes. It's kind of a February task. See that alternatives in your chart In in a perfect world There is an understanding of how expensive it is to build buildings Who the owners of the buildings are who the players are what compels people to be downtown and If it's a town that's going to be governed Where there's civility and there's not too many more policemen out that I don't I love policemen But instead of three times the police if it's only half again as many police people living there has a capacity to quell and I'm sure you're nodding your heads because you know of of Santa Monica's redo housing came in a little less theft So this is a wide open discussion that ties back to how to finance this how to compel people It's obvious if Pixar is an employer here, and I know mr. Lassiter lost his job He's gonna find it. There's a new job for him and maybe he choose Santa Rosa maybe you don't want him but carefully said the the story is the story is that compelling culture to be here and Have some fertile Reason to be proud of being in Santa Rosa to be excited to work here I'm not sure if the blend is 20 percent employment and 80 percent housing But it begs the question because this new gauge as we step this up It's it's a call it a nine-month cycle or a year The capital involved to build all the pipes thought the pipes will go from 12 inches to 48 inches or whatever to make buildings There are 28 Stories high that capital has to be in place as I understand it legally you can't just Happily handshake a developer and here's your site You go for it 30 stories, and if the pipes aren't there if it's not guaranteed by the city Then that's a problem, and so I'm trying to invite the conversation potentially of jobs that are private sector that culturally enrich the community at large and Perhaps those discussions being open to the county So that real things can happen. There was a question work at the end of that. Yeah, there's a question So one thing I would say is that So we do have the infrastructure development piece of this in step six that you mentioned also a part of the Specific plan one of the chapters in the specific plan which is a grant requirement and something that we want it as a city is The implementation chapter and that will outline how this plan will get implemented including all of the infrastructure pieces How and when that will happen how it will be paid for? And what city departments or outside agencies or developers would be required to participate in that? And just to add to that Speaking about employers, we are looking out looking out and reaching out to the Existing employers in the in the city of Santa Rosa, so we have a pretty vibrant tech industry as well as health care industry And education and so those those industries are looking for places for their employees to live So they've been a part of the conversation Even prior to this specific plan, but definitely as we move forward with the plan Okay, I got a couple questions so We're ten years into the plan. Let's call it and we got a grant and so we're looking to update the plan So does the plan then just take us to the end of the original plan at so ten more years or Or where are we stopping? Where are we thinking at this point time? Andrew do you have a vision for that? I don't think it's it's been defined yet, but It hasn't been defined, but it's a generally good practice to align with the regional planning and right now everyone's looking out to 2040 so I think it makes sense to probably extend the horizon out to 2040 And then This is just kind of an oddball question I think as I look at it for the past 15 minutes So you've got a grant and it says, you know, you need to be near transit And so we're gonna go a half-mile radius around the smart and we're gonna have my radius around the Bus depot I'm just wondering you and we study that area as kind of the centric circles and then You can't just kind of say well, and then it'll all work outside of it So where does how does that play into it as far as? You know you're halfway into one neighborhood and you kind of are stopping not really I know but just explain How that process takes place? Yeah, so the the the policies that come out of this plan will be applicable to the areas within that plan boundary But as part of development of this plan and the analysis, we're looking at the adjacencies and we are As was mentioned with the composition of the CAC. It's it's not just people that are living downtown It's people that could be living downtown or that are using downtown So so that's the the plan area boundary is more here's where our focus is going to be and as we update plans and Regulations, they'll be applicable to that area, but the analysis is going to be based Citywide and regionally regionally as well Great. Thank you Turn it over to the cultural heritage board All right. Thank you very much Questions I'm gonna start in the same way at the other end of the table so and if you got some questions for us Yes, I do Thank you very much for the great walk today. It was really a lot of fun In this downtown station area You do realize that you have six historical districts and how is this going to affect them? So as I mentioned we we will have representation of each of those districts on our community advisory committee And those members would act as ambassadors So the idea is not just those six people representing those districts It's also to to broadly reach out and try to get as much participation as we can Also part of the consultant firm that we chose part of the appeal was that they do have Historic resource experts on staff and that's going to be a component of this plan as well and Andrew if you want to touch on that a little bit There we go As one of the the second task that Patrick highlighted today involves the background research and so a big component of that is documenting exist the existing historical resources And so page and turnbull is on the team to to do that work And that really lays the foundation for the discussion going forward. So right from the beginning. It's part of the considerations This is directed to Patrick You mentioned there's been a very a lackluster response to the first plan Maybe 50% of it has been implemented and it's been mostly in commercial development As part of this new plan, are you following up to With people who pulled out with developers to understand what I know there's been some financial Disasters in between but are you going to do any analysis to understand why they pulled out and how to prevent that in the future? What were they looking for that the city couldn't provide? Yeah, so a component of the plan is a feasibility analysis and Talking directly to the developers the ones that have have had interest in the past and and for whatever reason it didn't move forward Also ones that have interest now and and what are those barriers and as Jessica mentioned earlier this Expands beyond just the plan. So our The city is really reaching out on kind of a multi-pronged approach Looking at what have been the barriers in the past. So we revisiting our fees our fees schedule Looking at the kind of the regulatory barriers, you know, how how difficult is it to actually get a project approved? What level of uncertainty is there in the development community? So we are trying to approach that from from different angles and one of those would be through this plan And we are engaging in the outreach right now to try to look to the past and also look to future development And I just have a more basic question What is the general vision? For this plan in terms of its urban form are there any examples that you know I like what has happened in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I don't like what's happened in San Diego. I like what's happened downtown, Austin Is that type of discussion happening or is it or we just talking about densities and height and Right now we're talking about getting housing downtown How that looks is what this process is all about. So we'd love to hear what you think the urban form should look like That's having the Cultural Heritage Board and Design Reboard as as resources is very valuable but a part of this process would be to come up with that vision and and we'd also look at how our our development standards reflect that so we've the pre the existing plan kind of dabbles in form-based code it comes up with with both hard and fast measurement development standards, but also development types and What we've seen is that that can be a burden too because if you want to build something on a shopfront street type What are the different requirements that you need to do and does that create all sorts of uncertainty? So we do want to find what that vision is and we want this plan to reflect that urban form So that's one of the reasons we're having this this study session tonight. Thank you But but also just more basically are there examples in other communities that you think may influence this because they have done it Right within a certain Perspective so your question resonates with the discussions. We've been having as to how to most effectively engage of the community certainly People should have the opportunity to consider land use distribution and look at downtown in two dimensions But nobody visits downtown in two dimensions so we intend to engage people in Sharing what a kind of experience they would like downtown and one of our challenges is to you to find the non-prejudicial Examples so you can't use different neighborhoods in San Francisco because they all mean different things to different people and but So we're looking for not a single form, but the range of possibilities Yeah, that we can then share with people and get people's responses. What is The experience they want downtown as well as where might they put what and so really that we're exactly at that stage of looking for What is the right range? Not which one is the right one, right? Because I think for many people this would be very abstract to talk about height and density Yeah, and to use Progressive examples, I think without saying we're replicating this would be a good approach because that a lot of people That's going to be the vision. Yeah, they're going to respond So we're looking like in the movies for those neighborhoods that you're like, oh, yeah That's the kind of neighborhood I want but you can't really tell where it is Okay, all right Laura Okay One of the questions that I have is whether the plan affects Santa Rosa Avenue specifically on the east side of Santa Rosa Avenue, which is Adjacent to the Burbank Gardens historic neighborhood because on the map it kind of looks as though that area is On the east side of Santa Rosa Avenue is not A part of this plan Yeah, all of the properties that front along Santa Rosa Avenue on the east side Are within the plan area and that is the only portions of the Burbank Gardens that are within the plan area, okay? and then I Who's going to choose the representatives these six representatives that you're going to have for different Neighborhoods because you know when we have these meetings people that live in the historic neighborhoods are fiercely fiercely fiercely Protective of their neighborhoods and who's going to make the decision on who those six people that are going to represent a neighborhood are and Yeah, so I put this last slide up because this is the link to our Our current page. We're going to be having a standalone page to which is Update downtown SR calm plant Not even close plan downtown SR calm But this this site this link will also work And we have we're putting together an application right now for the community advisory committee In the next couple days that will be released And then based on the responses to that Staff will be working to with in concert with the planning staff and the office of community engagement We'll be working to put together that that group But they will not be Representatives or decision-makers for those districts as I said before they'll be ambassadors So it's it's one person whose name is on that list But hopefully we'll have participation from from many members of the group. They're all the CAC meetings or public meetings So so while one person might be on that that committee We'd want to get as engagement and participation from as many people as we can Okay, and then I want my last question is is this plan related to the gateway plan that we talked about in 2007 and had public meetings and People talked about what they would like for that gateway from highway 12 to Sonoma Avenue And what they wanted to see happen with bull doubts and Limiting traffic in different directions and we had those meetings and it seems like this is kind of part of that but it's Opened up and is something different, but we called it the gate. I think it was called like the gateway Well, we have the the Santa Rosa corridor plan the corridor plan that that was talked about with you know The areas fronting like Santa Rosa Avenue and what? You know people wanted or is that what this is based off of was that feedback that was that will be a part of Yeah, so all of the specific plans And the visioning plans that have been done Including like the Rosalind plan recently the Santa Rosa corridor plan. We have a Mendocino Avenue plan The bike and pedmaster plan there all the all the work that's gone into those and the public outreach We're not just putting that aside and then working on this plan They're all they'll all work in unison and then when we have a Newly adopted specific plan. They'll all be updated to be consistent. So they're they're all working together They're not singular entities. Thank you All right, I have a couple of questions and also comments if that's appropriate if you some ideas about Dealing with some of the issues that are might come up around historic resources I'm looking at page 6 of 24 So under task to where you specifically address historic resources And I applaud the idea of reconfirming the boundaries and of the existing historic districts You also say and believe sorry If GIS data is readily available Then you will produce a map that compares existing district boundaries with proposed adjustments Etc. I think one thing to make sure that you know and I know you already do But I want to say it out loud our existing inventory has not been substantively updated since the mid 80s and So you have a situation where People in all with all good faith and intent have have patched a few holes But we have not done a citywide inventory in a long time So working with existing records in the city is going to replicate that gap unless you think about at least an initial Update of the inventory at least within the a PE of this project that would be an enormous service to this city and something that We do have pretty good GIS data available at the Northwest Information Center Which is one of the statewide systems from the Shepo's office, right? Our particular center has been out in front of the GIS conversion of all of the base maps for historic resources prehistoric resources Historical archaeology which would also be an interesting thing to include in this sensitivity map when the smart train um Redevelopment came through the railroad square area. They turned up significant archaeological resources including some really nice information on the Cities the impact of the 19th to 06 earthquake to the city of Santa Rosa. It was a pretty radical event here and that Data is all sitting there in that area Because that's where a lot of the clearance went when all the brick buildings downtown fell down They use the railroad to clear the material out. So Those records are also available at the Northwest Information Center So that's something to kind of put on your radar as a resource. You might want to refer You should talk perhaps to the director Brian much who once served on this board. So he's gonna have an awareness of what your needs would be Okay, that's a thought and don't forget to have a really good substantive discussion with staff here because they're well aware of the inventory problem and can help you with that but Pretty much none of that stuff on the west side of the freeway in any of those Old industrial zones. They're not on the inventory World War two is not on the inventory in this city So much and then last but not least I noticed and I don't have it up in front of me But the the flow chart of the time we could talk about that incredibly ambitious. Yeah This one takes my breath away guys. This is this is pretty intense I think everybody here is gonna want to work with you to help you try and achieve this amazing goal The one thing I'm noticing is that this is the last time you talk to us This is the last conversation. You're gonna have with the cultural heritage board and the design review board about This so that's this is the last time as part of the consultant scope that we have a meeting with with both of these boards however staff has been in discussion of we want to make sure that we continue to use these boards as a Valuable resource so as part of our department reports, we will be incorporating it into the regular meetings of both of these boards That's great I was gonna say don't throw out the baby with the bathwater in the name of going fast Because we can help with this. It's also the case that it as the project is described. We start off Consulting now and then there's a whole lot of opportunity We hope for the plan to change and evolve as it goes along So we can start out talking to you about a plan That's about what kind of horse do you want to buy and you could end up with a rutabagas at the end? And I'd like to make sure that we get brought back in at some point to sort of comment on the rutabagas as That's where you go if you see my drift Yeah, so I don't want to pass off on Consulting now when the final product could be profoundly different from what we're hearing Right and so like in addition to what Patrick said and bringing you updates on where we're at with the process The other thing that we generally do is at the end of the process when we have the draft specific plan before we take it To the planning commission and council for their consideration We bring it to the designer view board and cultural heritage board to get your comment so that we can provide those to the commission and council Awesome, that sounds fabulous. And if I could vote for this, I I think that would be great if that could be a joint meeting again I don't know about you folks, but I think we work pretty well together as a team that way And it would again save you some time and get some synergy going with the conversation back and forth between the boards Okay, that's all I've got. Thank you. I think we welcome that opportunity if it works out for staff Okay, I would like to take this time to open up this item for a public comment currently have one Speaker card, but again if you'd like to speak on this item, please after mr. DeWitt is done with his three minutes Go ahead and head up to the podium and just give me your name and comments So with that I'll hand it over to you Dwayne. My name is Dwayne DeWitt. I'm from Roseland I stayed because this is such an important matter in two short months You're already going to have a preferred plan according to that timeline When you're from Roseland, you don't wear rose colored glasses You understand that things are going to be quite different than they're presented to you at various times I've participated in almost every Planning activity that might have come Roseland's way for decades to try to be helpful to my community I was at the Roseland specific plan as Part of what they called a steering committee many of us called it a mushroom committee because we were kept in the dark about a lot of stuff Anyway at the time it seemed it was more about what staff wanted to do and They had gotten a grant and the director of planning at the time was getting a bump in salary for a different position and Spiking his pension and then leaving out and that seemed a whole lot more important than what the community Was bringing forward and we actually appreciate mr. Kansyan. He's trying to do a job, but this it's essentially he has to do what staff says and They're coming in with a preconceived notion of what they want and it often is based on erroneous pretensions and preconceived ideas of what's going to happen and how it should be Perfect example during the specific plan is alternative transportation We couldn't get the transportation and public works woman miss Eid on the same page with the parks woman miss Santos About a bike path. It was supposed to be on the south side of rosin Creek They didn't even talk about it. And then at the end of the specific plan We were told oh by the way, we're gonna advocate not us city staff for a tunnel under highway 12 It had not been discussed at all during the specific plan By the steering committee, I should say Obviously staff had been talking about it and things have been going on behind the scenes So essentially what you have here is staff is going to bring a project to you in two short months and say This is our preferred plan and the folks out in the community agreed to it. I Really beg to differ on that idea It's going to be the rubber stamp folks the six people that they pick that they want to be Here's a better idea. Let the community pick the people they want to be Involved with this let the community have a seat at the technical advisory committee We asked for that in the rosin Pacific plan miss Jones wouldn't let that occur So if you're not at the table, you're on the menu and you're gonna get chewed up That's definitely how it happens So as you I mean look at that map up there. You can see what's gonna happen in just a few short months It's almost over. We only have two weeks left in January They're coming back to you alternatives in February and then in March a preferred plan boom draft plan by a mental review It's over So we call that top-down and that's pretty much how this is gonna happen. I Don't mind that if it's a good thing But someone needs to show me how it's gonna be a good thing Is I hope some of you remember there was a lawsuit about the Santa Rosa Avenue corridor and the gateways plan There was a business association that came together and sued the city because of the way it was coming forward I wasn't a part of that, but I kept those documents And I think you folks should educate yourself because what you get from staff is usually what their view wants to be You've got to be your own best What's the term for that? Scholar a student a researcher of this stuff. You got to know what's going on Otherwise, they're gonna take you to the bank and laugh all the way because they already got the money from MTC So, you know doesn't really matter to them It's really saddening to me because I've participated in so many of these things to try to be helpful and then find it Didn't matter that they were already gonna go ahead with what their preferred alternative was in the case of the downtown people It'll probably be business owners and landowners like mr. Futrell It'll probably be the Chamber of Commerce Which has more strength than any citizens group and then the Sonoma County Alliance and those folks definitely pull Far more strings than we mere peasants out in the community can so keep all that in mind I want you to do the best you can and I'm looking forward to big tall buildings down here It could have been at the White House site already, which was already given Essentially the get-go and didn't go anywhere because of financing and the same with John Stewart's property at the Kennedy we've walked by today 15 years ago that guy was ready to move forward and what he told me was that a Santa Rosa mayor a former mayor Got in the mix and cut that off not he I should say one of his workers That's down at UC Berkeley, and I think mr. Can't sound it probably know him, but you understand this whole thing is about you know planning his politics And the politics is those that got the dough they're gonna make it go the rest of us We're just along for the ride. Maybe it'll be on the smart train, but we don't really know for sure. Thank you very much for your time Thank you, mr. Duit and your comments are appreciated and duly noted Okay, I've got another speaker card for a thomas ells thomas microphones all yours I want to thank you for having a joint board And please do continue to meet Together there's so much that you can bring to the table together I myself My background is anthropology. I'm an anthropologist, and I'm a civil and environmental engineer and To give you an idea I was Charles Cobra and Associates, and we did a lot of malls. We did a lot of other things including the two rock enlisted men's Barracks which anyway, you know, it was a nice housing development out to rock many many years ago It was one of the first things that they had that was sort of new But we had Ron altune and porter and and john jerty were the main designers and then and many others we were in association if you will Constantly in los angeles with groon associates and frank gary was right there as we were all in contact out Point to frank gary um But just to remind you that I've been looking at south park as as potential in south park and and I've seen that redevelopment Design meaning it was intended to be a redevelopment area and it was from 1974 so it takes a long time like like Dwayne was saying but I want to point out that the warren had some really important ideas about Who could be partners? And those are really powerful The and while I would say the federal building and the state buildings that they've been weak partners to a certain extent There were a lot of other the fishing game was here the the um I mean the you know the federal fishing state fishing game was here, but also um Um The oceans I can't think of the name of their they were here In these offices and you could meet with them and for sure in all the different people were here Uh, you want to get people like that back here? You know, it's too expensive for them to use san francisco properties as we know that PG&E may have to divest its property there and I mean it's very expensive there And they'll be looking for places where people can can be paid a little bit less And have a great great life. That's here um But as as warren was mentioning so there's other private developers and And then they would go back to that question of the vision what What is the vision now the southeast greenway? That's really fat. That's a fabulous thing. It's going to be like central park. It's going to be like It's going to be like San Francisco golden gate park as a linear park. It's really connect to to trioni anadel um, that's going to be fantastic and I have Proposed to the there'd be artwork along there to be Really significant artwork along there to public art that people will attract people both bicycles and pedestrians and neighborhoods and everything in that in that area And the and the rest of it's something how it has to connect so From here to there from here to the southeast greenway you're gonna have to connect that and along that that that should have Definitely significant buildings just like you would have around golden gate park or around around central park But then it's going to be what's the there there? What's the there here? Um And you talk about something 28 stories and I it's that's a jump to light speed That's a jump to light speed you know and and It looks great in the movie but I don't know how you do it and There's a question of conservation of mass Let's put it that way. Um uh, not On an actual 28 stories, but in going to light speed um It would be like going to light speed for us here And and and I would not only that is that is that like with a navigation and navigation easement around an airport Is that around certain things with an airport airplanes coming in you you have a sloped Area away from from that and that could be like your main roads You don't want to have 28 stories right on the front line So this needs to have a full conversation about the design issues and so on that that will reflect on the city for a long time A 28 story building that would be here. How long is that going to be here? It's like looking look in san francisco and look how long those buildings are there or even the buildings that are here they can be here a hundred years and So please do and I do again. Thank you greatly for the beginning this process. Thank you Thank you, mr. L's appreciate your participation Any other public comment on this item? See no one moving to the podium. I will close public comment on this item Um, bring it back to staff. I guess before we go through and kind of give final thoughts on the process Is there something that you want to hear from us tonight? um In specific terms or just general feedback at this point both so Yeah, I mean this is um As as vice chair percer said, you know We'll be coming back later, but a lot of the plan will be developed at that point So right now is the very beginning. We're laying out the scope And the vision so if you have broad policy considerations or if you have specific details We want to hear it all. Thanks Okay, well, let's uh go back through with some final thoughts sabre putting together the citizen group that will be giving you advice and helping with outreach will be Extraordinarily sensitive Just as mr. Dewitt mentioned that it's important that People who aren't generally seated at the table be part of the discussion I think that I want to encourage you to look in unusual places to find your members Most commonly we go back to the people we know are reliable That they'll show up at meetings that they'll listen respectfully And that's Safe But safe isn't always the best outcome Especially for something where you're really trying to challenge The barriers that have kept us from moving forward. So I encourage you to look In organizations that are not the standard feeder organizations for the city To look at churches to look at schools to uh, excuse me Look beyond The people who are always civically engaged Just as I mentioned that lots of people are not going to come to you It's going to be necessary for you to look at expanding the recruitment circle Particularly because of the aggressive schedule Otherwise, there will be a lot of voices saying why wasn't I consulted? You have to make certain that you have a chance to consult different voices Thank you Thank you sabre Eric Good luck on your journey and I wish it as quickly as you target it. Thank you. Thanks Eric Adam Yeah, I think this is a it's ambitious definitely and it's pretty exciting also what you're you're hoping to do and planning to do And yeah, I think You know, it's come up a number of times. It's just really echoing that That concern about you know, the aggressive schedule is really exciting, but You know really keeping in mind Of keeping those the those unconventional voices like sabre said being being incorporated You know, there's always public processes where you know people all of a sudden there's a final presentation You know, this is going to happen, you know, you know at the end of the summer and people there's going to be So huge segments of the community saying I never heard about this Um, so really thinking creatively about how to get that out there especially with this really aggressive schedule. Um, you know Yeah, you know the public relations getting you know media and really those unconventional Engagements to I mean thinking about you know, something that was Really interesting with coffee park recently and the actual city park that's going in there there was The engagement with the fourth grade classroom to come up with Ideas of actually the how the park was actually being built things like that where you actually get, you know And those are really great things because you're engaging next generation of stewards and planners But you're also, you know, those are also really great things public relations wise because people like to see kids involved And so if you get some coverage that way of really getting other people involved You know these hands-on things of you know, you're having you know building components or models as part of the Plan too of something that people can physically see, you know, if you're going to events Especially downtown or other places that you know people can see it that you know, the maps are great plan view is really interesting but you know having You know a perspective view of really what Four story versus, you know 18 story building is going to look like or something like that and and really also engaging of um You know those really elemental things that people need in their daily lives like, you know You know grocery stores restrooms things like that, you know, how like people they come to downtown They want to know like the you know of it like one of the main things that people talk about is parking like if you're gonna have all this new stuff downtown and new People living here and new businesses where are people going to park where you know, like just there's like the really elemental things that people are going to want to know about and so keeping that in mind because Seems to me with the aggressive schedule that it can you know kind of get bogged down in those Nitty gritty like is this a nitty gritty plan or is this like a dream plan? You know seems like to me like it's a little bit of both Which is great, but For the late people it's like it's hard to grab wrap their heads around so um, yeah, I think just really keeping You know a really robust process while also Really thinking about communicating it to the communities that we're serving you live in downtown and citywide and outside, so Yeah, best of luck and You know, I definitely echo The idea of coming back to us too and you know good to hear that that there's the idea of scheduling another meeting with us because You know, this is this is great to give at the beginning of this process to give some ideas But also as we see how it Evolves through the process. I mean that was one of my questions with Lessons learned from the roseland process It wasn't necessarily by learning about fairs, but Larry, you know anytime you do something it kicks off more ideas of how you can get more people more things like that and so I'm certain we'll all go home and Think of 15 other things and so come back to us. We'll Well, you know probably have a really long meeting and you know give you way too much information, but Thanks for listening Thanks, adam and warren can you comment on your 28 story building as a reference? Well, I just want to mention I was 550 mission street in san francisco. There's a new building. It's 28 story size of the top florida at a Wonderful event for foster children Looking down the city. I think of The richard henry dana in san francisco was one of the best examples of green a grocer Not a not a desert space with about 20 stories of housing above it in the barcadero. That's alive today, but that's a mixed-use building I have a big flag about foreign based code And the word flexible with the big capital f is really important here because cities are dynamic It's it's the intersection of democracy and and private capital. That's really if you define a democracy It is that it is the conversation and agreements between the private and public sector So staying fluid Staying flexible with how these buildings may be there may be one building. That's all office. There may be one building. It's all housing but I would be very Concerned if you flatlined that there would be doorways every 30 feet with a pumpkin behind each door at halloween and It's it's nonsense in a downtown where we have we have to have this this partner shipping and and thank you again for considering receiving the intellect of work And housing on this kind of a level In many small communities in the area like winds are tried work live and they decided to sundown the whole operation Because it it just wasn't really efficacious in an urban area like this if you're going to invest A napa did a sequa downtown They had big dollars and they paid for the entire seqa process So developers could come in and not have to do traffic studies and sound studies One of the unfortunate things is it all went hotel crazy and the hotels gobbled up all the parking stalls So they didn't get their housing So the stewardship in the city is to try to create some level of Governing Order where where this is a joint effort and The fight as i understand it is for housing But but these models i'm i'm fine with going vertical. It's a better i'm on the board because i don't want to see The environment squashed too much. What's left of it where where the wild fox is and the in the wilderness I want to see that not stepped on so i'm big on big downtowns But it's a capital serious venture And when all that said and done it'd be great if it was a 40-year plan It was durable didn't sundown and all that Agreement was there so people could come in Breathe knowing that they wouldn't be rejected Thank you warn I would agree with warn and that flexibility Needs to be there. I mean I think that We can have a vision and shape This area as much as we want, but the reality is that Economics are going to prove out to dictate what gets built I did see In the plan that there's going to be a feasibility study Created to see kind of where the rents and cost building etc Kind of marry up and and meet to make it economically feasible to develop and what I would recommend in that regard Is that you get actual? Real world costs that you don't use some Model from you know insurance company or the marshal swift code plus the You know regional increases That you talk to you know a hu fu trell or rick derringer and you know these people are knowledgeable about what today's dollars will get you And the truth of the matter from what I understand is that you know as much as rents have increased And we've got a real housing shortage It still isn't economically feasible for whatever reason to build you know above five stories Maybe you got to take a risk and get somebody to go 28 I read a great article if I can dig it up. I'll send it to you. It's called California's and their fear of heights. It's all about tall buildings. So I think we live in that world It's interesting read of how we might Get around that and open up people's visions I also think that you know As people have mentioned bringing employment downtown might be the catalyst Kind of some low hanging fruit that I was thinking about are the schools in the area So, you know, why doesn't Sonoma state have their you know, whatever urban planning they have in their school? Why don't they have it at a campus downtown would make a whole lot more sense than that at you know kind of sprawling area I know we used to have ucsf Grad school downtown. I'm not sure if it's still there, but just reinvigorating that Call it student-based downtown would would reinvigorate some of the population and outdoor nightlife activities, I think I also think it's going to be critical to find a location for a grocery store more than just the corner market But maybe not as large as You know the largest all-overs around but something comparable to a you know nice higher-end market that You can grab your groceries every evening and walk to your house to get away from the You know the cars and that sort of thing So with that i'll turn it over to the cultural heritage board Thanks very much. All right last comments for the moment and Yeah, I would like to see you folks come back to our group again and You know get reports on The various representatives of the cultural heritage board and what they feel about The uptown downtown and how it will affect their communities my input would be When you do your analysis when you look at Successful urban blocks and form that you respect that along that corridor My my greatest fear is there would be sort of a piecemeal up and down development And you know echoing at war and said that's what happened when when things sunset Some towers go up and the rest remain flat I would also Be cautious of the transitions between their that that urban Street wall and some of the better residential areas here. They go right against it And it would be I think unfortunate if there's really again abrupt changes in height And then one thing that's really missing in downtown Santa Rosa even though we had a representative from the museum is culture and if there were theaters or music halls or I don't know it's something that could be incorporated into this to Make it not only a you know a business sense kind of develop it but one that Makes Santa Rosa sort of a cultural attraction Right now. It's just a banking attraction. It's a shopping attraction. It's a beer market But there's really no cultural magnet here. Thank you Okay, I guess the one thing that I one of the things I'd like to say is that I think that there's no bigger way to disenfranchise people and Then to not listen to what Was said in meetings that were held in 2007 With neighbors and neighborhoods and there was the gateway project that was specific from highway 12's entrance into Santa Rosa Going all the way to Sonoma Sonoma avenue and it was meetings were held neighborhoods met groups were You know advertised to come and meet and give your opinion and there's no bigger way to disenfranchise a group of people than it To all of a sudden this is not the gateway project This is this new plan and it seems like we're not paying attention to necessarily what that gateway project that spoke specifically of that area from highway 12 as the gateway to Sonoma valley and Sonoma county and and we listened and we had meetings and we had Lots and lots of people that came and gave their opinions and what they wanted to see and It was kind of like Said that this is the way it's going to be and yeah, we're going to stop traffic on one direction and And it seems like now this is part of this other Plan that's now a bigger plan and and we're forgetting about What was said in 2007 when this was all brought up And I'd like to see um, I think that if you talk about people Feeling disenfranchised and feeling angry about what's going on and not wanting to involve themselves And you know what what's going on? It's to not listen and not to listen to what was said in 2007 even though it was 12 years ago It's still important and it's still what people wanted at that time And it was what the city kind of basically said we were going to be Doing and you know that The zoning was going to reflect that and there were not going to be any more car lots on high on Santa Rosa avenue and there were lots of Things that were promised and I'd like to make sure that Even though this is part of this bigger plan now that we honor that gateway thing that we told People that we were going to do back in 2007 and I really like that to To be respected and and to remember that because that was real and that was a lot of people's time and it was And if we aren't going to do it then we're not going to have people coming and showing up at community meetings and giving their opinions and saying what they think We should be doing because it was like I spent hours in 2007 and it's now You know not happening and I'd also like especially with the six neighborhood districts that the The representatives that are chosen from those districts to work with the cultural heritage board Whether you have a member of each of the members on the board represent a neighborhood So that they're working with You know the member of the neighborhood that's chosen So that it can stay culturally relevant to what our board's vision is and not just somebody that maybe not understands That doesn't understand the the historic You know what what we all work for as a board So that would that's all I have Thanks Dwayne All right, I'm I'm going to go at the historical perspective from a slightly different direction and and forgive me for taking the time but I I think it might Be interesting anyway to to put a lot of this in a slightly different context So I've been working on a project On the city of santa rosa and its development, especially if it's neighborhoods since 2014 One of the things that I encounter over and over and over again Is that when you say downtown And i'm an anthropologist, so I I don't say this is what the downtown is I don't draw the line on the map. I let people draw it for me When you say downtown to most people that I have talked to who are residents of santa rosa They mean very much East of the freeway In this district and it's hard to overstate what a cognitive boundary that freeway is in this Community it's also a demographic boundary The census data maps From 2010 for the city of santa rosa Are absolutely bifurcated You've worked the rosalind project then you have some sense of this If you look at the line on the map that you have drawn for this project That's not the one that says downtown but is the one that says specific plan area boundary You pull that one up for me see the black and the black dotted line If this if staff has said several times that downtown is everybody's downtown and I think I like that idea I think there's some strength to that That in many ways grew out of our experience with the fire and that square in particular became a place Of performance of community identity and I think that's a very powerful thing But the line on your map Has the potential for us to call downtown Not only something that is much bigger than the current cognitive model of what's downtown But is vastly more inclusive Than the current notion of what's downtown which is frankly dominated by the chamber of commerce And and because it has very little residential sense With the exception of these smaller historical districts So in your choosing of where to target and who to go sit in their backyards I would strongly suggest that you lean at least as heavily to the west of the freeway Within that black line As you do to the east and as you do To the established historic districts They already have lines on the map that define them as historic places You will notice that it's kind of hard to find those on the west side Of the freeway you'll get told it's because there's nothing that's historical over there I wouldn't do that with dwayne de wid in the room, but Right, so I'm just looking at your map And I would strongly encourage you to start calling that black line The new downtown And make it a little more inclusive It's going to make your job harder, but it's already your comic and it's your boundary line So you can go with it, right? It's a bigger downtown my two cents Okay, thank you. Any further comments from staff or needs or anything? We would just like to thank everyone for your time And we would like to thank you for years and as eric said Best of luck on this journey Expeditious journey So we'll take a minute or so to change over to the new applicant of 7.2 and we'll move the meeting on Open government All right, let's uh Begin to reconvene here Okay, we are moving on to item 7.2 This is the concept design review for deterg winery village at 55 west 8th street file number dr 18-085 And I will turn it over to adam ross for staff report Thank you chairman kinkade and members of the boards Again, i'm adam ross city planner here with the city of santa rosa Presenting before you deterg winery village for concept review Located at 806 donahue street and eight west 9th street So the project involves an alteration to an approved 185 unit apartment complex that includes 15 very low income units The project also includes the following changes So you it's removing all of the residential units from the commercial building building c Uh relocating those units to building b by adding a fourth floor to building b And the addition of building e The parking will count will remain the same the parking Will be at the floor level of building e In the same configuration As it was originally approved Here's a project An outline of the property Right here It's within the west end preservation district Here's some images of the existing building on site This is the building c the commercial building We're currently uh residential units are proposed and approved but are being Relocated to building e which is the new building and the fourth floor at building b General plan is transit village medium It's within the downtown stationary specific plan The zoning is transit village residential which allows a density of 45 units per acre So this was um going back to an original proposal the top Image shows what was originally proposed and then after uh, there were some comments and um Suggestions made about the project. This is what it uh This is Not the final approved, but this uh came back to you and the applicant has the images of what is finally what was finalized and approved by city council and um And uh and what the project is going to look like after So this is a overview of the previously approved project Building e will be going right in this parking area And I believe this is building b So the fourth floor will go on to building b and this is uh What is being proposed so all the residential units are taken off of building c Relocated to building e and a fourth floor on building b So here are just some concept Elevations for the project for building e this is uh Building b The approved version as you can see there's some residential Components up top right here And this is the concept for the added fourth floor on building b This is building c approved and this is an approved building c um This may not be completely accurate because the residential Units are actually not going to be there. The applicant has the latest um version of this Of this rendering Which you will see in their presentation And that concludes staff's concept Presentation for you. I'm here to answer any questions. You may have the applicant has a presentation of their own And they are also here to answer any questions you may have Thank you Being this concept review I think we'll hear the applicant's application and then open it up to any questions for either the applicant or the planners With that i'll hand it over to uh rick derringer applicant and his architect Mr. Kevin O'Malley So working Does that working there we are thank you uh chairman kinkade warren hbfi chair one of my favorite architects um Margaret purser who is the vice chairman of cultural heritage and both the design review board and the cultural heritage board um Deturk winery is the only housing project that has already been approved In the station area plan. It's 185 units The council approved this i believe it was in january of 2017 and After some there were eight environmental groups that attended that meeting Including green peace and a bunch of others uh supporting the project And we got a unanimous vote of approval from the council The reason we're here now is that after we started to go forward into construction construction drawings We ran into a problem because next to us Is pulmon loft pulmon loft ran into a problem because when they dug down into the ground For their garage or started to they found problems that they didn't anticipate So they came back to this group And uh not cultural but design review board and changed to move their parking above Because they couldn't go underground We found a similar problem because at the time the state water quality control board Who had given us a letter supporting the project and that we could do housing on the second floor and above wound up closing out review of these types of projects and turned all that to the fire department fire department requested that we do an a supplemental Um study which we have here if you want to see it that Basically came down to the fact that if we build within the brick building We have to go down between four to ten feet Uh brace up the walls get rid of all the concrete get all the walls out of there get rid of all the roofing material Find a way to brace the walls up during that period and then Move forward to build housing that Turned out to be close to an 800 to million dollar additional cost that we didn't know about So what we did is to deal with this issue since our goal is still to build in 2019 Because we're concerned that 2020 is a recession year is We went back and said what is the easiest way to build 185 units and we met with staff and we came up with a Plan that plan was to pull everything out of building c Out of the brick building so with then we don't have to do all that work move everything over to other buildings And as long as we didn't change the 185 we didn't change the parking We didn't change the elevation of any of the buildings on donahue street Then we were fine. So we created this new version And kevin o'Malley will go over the design elements But the bottom line is the reason we're pushing to get this approved. Hopefully by february Is that if we get by february we can get the design review Designs done we can get the engineering's done which have already been started and we can actually build this year If not, we're in 2020 and we just don't know where 2020 is going to be to be honest because In real estate, it doesn't look very good for the 2020 year 2019 is looking good But we want to make sure we're building and we'd be the first project Built in the stationary plan and we hope that will also encourage others to move forward Um, so that's basically why we got to this point Unfortunately, we didn't know about this issue until the fire department made a decision And gave us the criteria that they wanted Um, so That's where we are now. We'll show you through kevin How we got to this level to fix the problem Thank you Just as a quick point of reference These were a couple images that were used in the original approval Back in 2017 There of on the left you've got building a which is a view from The corner donahue and west eighth and then on the right you've got a View of building d which is the one to the north and that's a view from west ninth looking down donahue So as rick was mentioning really we're here for about four things Kind of resulting from wanting to move the all the units out of building c So the first item Whoops on that list and go back the first item was actually something we'd come I think back and shown at a concept hearing which was parapet at the top of building c at The southwest corner I'll jump to that slide real quick right there, whoops okay, the left side of this image is building c and I think we had an older image that adam had shown that showed The original parapet or what currently exists and there's a desire to extend that parapet and kind of clean it up and and this was One of those images that we came back with at a previous concept hearing Showing that revised parapet condition. So that that's one of our Our first modification and the second Here's building b that I think adam had the image of also so originally we had this approved for three stories I think is our next Slide or that slide that was the street three story version And in order to move some of the units out of building c we increase this building to four stories And actually converted them to flat so we have units on a single unit on every floor now Previously we had some townhouse units in here. So by going to the four stories and going flats we Put a bunch of those units that were in c into this building Those were just some little 3d concepts of that and then Third modification Was the addition of building c and this is similar images that you just saw shows a glimpse between Building c on your left and building a on your right and in the background is building e this is a driveway from Donahue street That really is an exit entrance and exit from Building c for parking And then this was a quick image is showing some of the materials We're trying to use the same language of materials that we used on the previously approved buildings So we have the metal panels at the top floor. We made a slight adjustment on this one to try to open it up building a had balconies that on especially on the third or the fourth floor that were solid So we're trying to emphasize the three-story height We open these up to rail railings since it's more of an enclosed interior courtyard area So try to be a little more open we've got The hardy panel siding same material we're using on the front buildings for the rest of the materials industrial windows and and doors and there was some Views of that. It's a little hard to make good views of this building because it's kind of sweeps sandwiched in between other buildings And then we had a couple other items These are just the floor plans concept floor plans of the units and building e and then we had one other item that we added Some adjustment to building a the north and south facades of building a Never really got adjusted when we adjusted the donahue side And then made this the fourth floor decks have a solid wall for their Decks trying to emphasize that four or three-story Um Level of the building and so we kind of went back and looked at that concept and wrapped what we were doing On the west side of building a and brought it around both the north end and south end which would the south end would be facing west 8th street and tried to get rid of rid of a lot of the glass because also our our primary That's not really our primary entrance that it kind of looks like it But really that's an exit stair that main central volume. So we kind of brought the brick massing down And simplified the windows so we didn't have as much glass going in into an exit stair corridor So that's what we're proposing on south of building a And then similar on the north side of building a simplifying those volumes trying to emphasize more of a three-story massing with the brick and Deemphasize the fourth story height So that was kind of that was the fourth item we added and there's quick little renderings of West 8th and Donahue corner. So the top Images of the what is currently approved the bottom image is what we're proposing Let me go back just so you can understand here too to the plan views of the buildings Okay, so Then we got the pointer. So really we're not changing anything in building d up here as from what was previously approved And mostly the inside of building c Was parking previously and we're still keeping it parking We're trying to keep the front of the building on donnie who here And here we're kind of our lobby area is we're trying to keep that Animated and not shove all the parking to the front of the building try to keep most of it towards the back And then this is building e right here that got added in It wasn't in the previous proposal. We've got parking towards the back of it and units across the front And building b the primary change was adding the fourth floor But in doing that we internalized the circulation. We had some exterior doors and because we had Ground floor units and then an entrance to a second and third floor unit. We internalized the Circulation now. So there's basically just windows facing the exterior circulation is on the interior of the building now And moving to the second level you can kind of see the differences on the bottom. This was the approved project. So we had Some units and building c right here on the north end And those are now removed here And we have building e added here, which was not in the original proposal here Basically translates to the third floor also there again units were here and building c We removed them From the building now we've added them added units to building e here And then here's the fourth floor. So again removing these units out So we have no units at all in building c and then here's the units in building e And now we have a fourth floor also on Building b which did not exist down here previously So I think those are the gist of our changes In order to allow us to move the units out of building c And we're here as a concept to bring it before you and get Feedback so that we can come back for Final meeting Okay I think before we bring it back to the boards I will take public comment on this item All right, so public comment for item 7.2 concept review for deterg winery village Mr. Dwayne do it Dwayne de wid I'm from roseland. I'm a member of the snoma county housing advocacy group I have no financial interests or ties to this gentleman or this project I'm here to advocate that this project be allowed to go forward as soon as possible It's been waiting. There's been difficulties that I'm sure We're unforeseen But it's really important we get these housing units as soon as possible And I'm hoping that you folks Will take it upon yourselves to say, okay, there have been some changes But it's not taking away from the general concept that had already been approved in the past So please Say go forward, sir And bring the housing to our community Sooner he gets it done the better off the members of the snoma county housing advocacy group will be feeling Thank you Thank you Dwayne Any other members of the public wishing to comment on this item? All right, seeing no one address the podium. We'll close public comment and bring it back to the board So this time, uh, let's go with questions for the applicant Or the staff Saber I've only one question Can you help me see where the affordable units will be? Are they mixed in or are they? Focused in and localized Originally approved as a mix um Throughout the project and you've maintained that yeah, we haven't changed that part of it at all excellent. Thank you Eric Sorry, I wasn't part of the original board when when this was Brought forward before for the commercial space. What what kind of commercial use is it as a business retail combination? Right now if you've been to the building We just opened up criminal bakery and coffee shop Which is jammed all the time with neighbors That will stay there We have a 20,000 square foot gym Most of that will stay there because the gym is good for the residential people We have an approval For a public market that we can put in the building If we have enough square footage, we think we will but part of this is going to be on Uh designing it and make sure it all fits in but we already have the gym We have the coffee shop. We have the bakery and we have a lot of nutrition Tenants in the building now That blend in with the cafe and there's 25,000 square feet that was originally approved The Heating air conditioning units are those roof mount are those going to be on the roof? I don't see those in the diagrams at all most of the I think we have a second floor. Oh, I know we have a second floor podium And most of the units are going to be mounted at the back side of the units there The small split system units So when you say on the back side, you're you're saying the track side, correct That's all I have for now. Thank you. Thanks And again, yeah same with Eric. This predates me on the board since I started today But uh Yeah, I also agree with mr. Dewitt that uh, it would be great to get that housing there And I would encourage also the Finding that square footage for a market That neighborhood, you know has a really vibrant Local community. It's great the criminal moved over there. It's amazing Coffee shop and bakery, but having something else is, you know, a quality market in that area would be great Also, um, and again, you're not really adding any trying to muddy the water on the design, but Having the entrances and and and Having right now, it's a it's a big brick wall Having an interface with the park and the the torque round barn that's there Another element of the neighborhood also as they used to have the western farmers market there moved over to railroad square but I would hope so. Yeah, I've heard that Because and I think that that that's an opportunity there with the cafe and a market the dog run the park of making this to to not be Just a wall and a wall Sort of blocking the train also But to have it be engaged with the community to permeate that wall a little bit too and and from what I've seen it does that but I there is a somewhat of an element of of keeping that facade there and Really increasing that permeability and having it be part of the the park and the neighborhood feel but um Yeah, let's get more housing there. Thank you Warren Yeah, thank you for um probably the uh one of the longest running events here and I'm Um, I'm just reflecting on a couple things. Um I appreciate that the conversations around Some of the geology the soils the the issues you ran into with fire So my understanding is that Building see what once was a building we were going to have units facing this this wall We're going to retire the idea of housing being there and generally in the central part of the area all the built-up roofs From 1921 1882 are going to stay on the parking with the advent of this new building The building that is now going to be Locating the parking the daylight parking that that was in the south there We know there's a grade change We we have bkf had had it shows about a seven foot difference between the buildings built in the 1800s and the the uh You're most north of the building And so maybe i'm i'm going to ask the architect kevin and your kind word Are you going to try to the the parking that was displaced in the new building? That parking is going to be relocated So you have a net no no loss in parking is is there a ramp or some excise where that parking Is still inside the the original building or where did that parking go? You're talking about the parking it was it's in building c that was there previously The main building Yeah, the the parking that was in building c we we have our newest addition and that's Garden those those are units that are from ground up. You're not parking you can see from me That's the the the very Slide you have up now the humanity is at the ground floor in the back building So the cars that were once there where humanity now is where did they reappear? Well, there's some of them in the back of building E And I think we did add some to building c. Let's go back to that slide So there's some at the back of building e here Okay, and then I think we did you have to look we did I think Shrink at the front what we previously had for commercial. There was a little more commercial here We think we picked up a row another another row of parking here I see So if you move your cursor just a little over to the the north there Where we had the the wall conditioned before you move it move it down to the lower part of the screen Right in there right right in that zone So my question there is the elevation which the cars are parked Is that the same elevation is the parking to the far north? Or what is I'm just wondering those stalls that are there they're underneath the old existing roof Are they are they going to populate the old floor line the the fill floor line from 1880? Well Yeah, you mean the this part of the building right here that's under the it's in building c Correct. Yes, we've got new floor out here. This is all new building And then we're going to have to get into this floor here But I only remember about I think 18 inches a grade change we had across all these units That's its concept. I hadn't seen the section. I'm just yeah. Yeah, my question was you're going to be able to keep Building see the integrity of the roof and the structure as its old bones still live You'll be able to park that but not have the building Have illness to it that that's the intent is that we don't Get into building c and tear out floors and Rebuild the whole inside of that building that we use what's there for parking. Okay, correct question That's a great question because I had a similar one Um, so for the exterior of Where's my notes? Of building c does that get preservation work what happens to the exterior? I don't recall what was happening to it before and now that we're keeping the roof etc etc What is there? Well now once the rain stops we go back to finishing it up You see we've only done probably at most 40 of a quarter of it We still have to go around to do the rest of it And that is the plan. I still probably would like to take the part of the front of the building that is not historic the The block building Portion they add on I'd like to even though that's showing still there We probably would like to come and take that off because it's just an old add-on situation we we would normally do that ourselves with permits unless the Design review board wants us to bring it back later to show what it looks like but once we take that Block off we're back to the original building Which I would think everybody including cultural would rather I mean that's what they asked us to do in the Initial hearings get rid of the block right That's our intent and this is a question probably for staff and the applicant, but you have an approved plan You're creating a new building Why are we back at concept versus re looking at final is it just too big of a change or What's the thought process? I I understand that if none of this gets approved that you can still go back and build the other project I get that piece of it. So is there any other reason why we're back at concept? So it's it's my understanding that it is a big enough change to warrant the The entitlement of design review and cultural heritage Uh major cultural heritage I'm sorry major landmark alteration is the correct term and a major design review so the concept is to get your comments, of course you um and Take those into consideration and come back For the final but yes the overall the project is large enough in scope to warrant that with the uh addition of building e and um I believe even the even if it was just the fourth story that that could also trigger that as well And in understanding that and this is more for the New members on the board or those who haven't been in the room before for this this concept review while The applicant is talking about the changes in general opens up A full design review. It's not nothing's locked in in set in stone Right now, correct Correct Thank you. No further questions. All right. Thank you um questions for either staff or the Those bringing the proposal you're going to pass. Okay sir um I hate to be the wet blanket But when this came before the first before the joint board in november 3 2016 There was a question as to which buildings were recognized As eligible for the california register and were therefore subject to sequa and we never had a Uh, participate. Oh, I what I don't think we ever saw this again And so our feeling at the time was we punted on that because if one of those were And what we saw in 2016 tonight They would not make the secretary of interiors standards for real Billitation So I guess my question is what was the resolve of that? I mean, there's a little bit of that discussion in miss painter's Cover letter, but I'm still unclear which particular buildings have been formally determined eligible And are they coming formally under sequa as part of this Re-vigored process Going back To the hearing you weren't there Design review board approved the project But it was cultural heritage that wouldn't approve it For one reason that they didn't like the fact that under state law You had no say on the fourth floor they were The chair chairwoman was upset about the fact that cultural heritage board Doesn't have a say on the fourth floor because that's state law and unless cultural could provide Uh Something that showed there was an adverse impact which they didn't Um, that's why I went to council and council reviewed it and said there is no adverse impact We're approving it and that design was fine the Issue we have is the majority of what's being done On the front of dania, which is the primary building under under state law We're not making any changes the elevations are not being changed The secondary wall which are the side walls We're only making changes on building e to the back of the building Where somebody at one time for some reason was able to get the city to approve five roll-up doors And took all the windows out the round windows out of that section So the building e will come up to that but it was stated by our historian and cultural heritage at the time said well, we recognize That's kind of like was Ripped apart at one time so we can live with that The other thing on building b which is the side of building b The cultural heritage board Supported putting windows and doors in that building Because it wasn't facing dania. You don't even see Dania street even though it's original building from the 18 something I don't know if that answers it but Well, I guess this is more of a question to staff because we came to a very clear impasse about Whether the building was subject to sequa and if it was What was proposed would not make the secretary of interior standards I I don't know what you're referring to the chair. I don't remember that but I just remember all of us were in consensus That we didn't have enough information if and if it was Indeed eligible for the california state registered. What was being proposed? Um did not meet all the requirements that were applicable under the secretary of interior state, right? However, when you went to hearing in front of the council your chairwoman appeared and stated In some basic support of what we were doing and the council vote said That they could not reach a point where there's an adverse impact Because that's the only way the cultural heritage board Can stop a project is by saying here is the identifiable um Adverse impacts I think I think we're talking across purposes here. Can staff please clarify is this building on the california list or not? Or yeah, has that determination been made that's all we're asking So I don't I don't know that at this time. I can follow up with you after this meeting But what I can say about sequa is that the project was reviewed against sequa and um Was deemed appropriate at that time Um, and again, I could follow up with what time was then So for the it was approved by city council in january of 2017 Well, I just want to be clear where this particular board was on november 3rd 2016 And I understand it was appealed. Um, but At least from my perspective, we're kind of back where we were in 2016 Can I jump in here real quick? And I would wholeheartedly agree with you that was part of my question of now we're back to concept reviews So, you know reset the wheel. I think this I don't want to put words in your mouth I think this board's going to come to the same exact conclusion and you're going to have to appeal this to council again So, I mean that's Am I wrong to to get past this impasse if it exists still so if I could just Say a few words here. So again, we as you mentioned we are at concept review right now The next step in this process will be to come to both boards for the project proposal With its entitlements at that time additional environmental analysis will need to be done on the proposed additions And so that will be before you and you'll be able to consider that and act on it at that time And then anything beyond that, you know, it could be any action can be appealed to the city council Yeah, and let me say The project's been approved And it was approved over of the cultural heritage board. No disrespect to the cultural heritage board council said we need housing And we don't agree with you I I'm looking at an issue here. It's really simple for me If we have to put housing and spend a million dollars in building c We're now a commercial property with no housing ever. I have no choice I can't put it in there. So you have to make a determination What's more important for the community in the city because We're actually taking units off of building c the ones that were there and removing them And that went up 48 feet now that's coming off of this design And we're just moving forward on The two other the only two of the buildings are actually went through last concept hearing Two of those items were the parapet and the fourth floor and building Be we're looked at it's the new building and the changes Kevin wants on the side, which we're just asking if you think it looks better Because I think it does look better, but it's up to you. You could say no, leave it alone But if I can't get those building out of those housing units out of building Um See there is no more project ever I I appreciate that but i'm just saying This particular body last saw this proposal november 3rd 2016 We didn't have accurate information at that time. It sounds like we don't have it tonight From what we understood was proposed if it was eligible under sequa for review it wouldn't make it Um Well You were I go to you if you're to the council it would that issue was raised in front of the council And the council said with their lawyer there city council attorney That the decision on Dealing with that issue relates to adverse impact and we did not we could not raise adverse impact because under state law That is the only issue involved, but again Yeah, let me let me jump in here again. Sorry. I think that from a concept is design review and cultural heritage board Meeting that the point is well taken that there's a stumbling block ahead for this project In this board and then if we can just If you have more questions, we'll go with more questions and then if we can get on to kind of commenting on the changes That would be great. Yes, and and staff is hearing the concerns and the information that is Going to be necessary to consider this project. And so again, this is concept design review We will have all of that detailed information for you as well as background information from previous Um proposals and approvals when you see this in its final form Okay, given that Kevin could you just go over what has changed with the Historic building using the elevations and conceptions, please I think the principal concern was from the west elevation We have Under this new revise we haven't changed we're back to building c being exactly what it is today There's no housing in there. So in theory, we're not making any modifications to the brick building except for Except for what was asked us to do which is clean up the brick So there there's in the brick building the entire brick building nothing changes I'm going to step in for a second just just a second I think part of the confusion is that when you look at diana painter's report There is an item there in her extended description. There's change one is the parapet Change two says the addition of a fourth story on building c And and it goes into great detail about adding a fourth story And I think that's a that's where some of the confusion is coming from here Yeah It's that addition is not listed in your material But it is in hers and this is the document that we need to pay attention to yeah Let me explain why that happened and that is our fault her reports being split up now There is no Buildings no housing no fourth floor in the brick building The reason she said The fourth floor in building c in that report is because at the time that she wrote the report We were anticipating going forward And building 200 and some unit 200 and some units actually if you went to the to the concept hearing That we went to in august that showed 240 units and that would have created more housing in building c subsequent to that Because the report that was written by the by the soil people came in After that situation it was determined. We're not going to put any housing in that the only way we could ever put Housing in building c at all Is if I were to get another hundred units there so that I could spend the extra million dollars to go down And that's not contemplated under this approval. No, thank you. I think we understand But that is incorrect and I was going to have her Redo that report to take that out for staff We probably need a revision of that report to make sure that that there's no confusion going forward I want to let my other I was going off that report and that caused great confusion So kevin, could you just walk us Through what's happening to each elevation if anything along building c that's that's all I want to hear And if it's nothing Primarily nothing on donahue We do have a you can see we have a stair core right here staring elevator core and it's going to come out And we're going to have one small man door opening. Maybe double door coming out here Nothing on the rest of this facade Until we deal with commercial, you know, but there's an existing entrances there and then we've got building E going up against the building and then we have we're still keeping an exit out of this parking right here That was a roll-up door That's it. I'd like to say with that information. I feel much more comfortable about your proposal. Thank you You sure? All right. Um, I uh now that we've cleared up the The mystery fourth floor on building c. I think I will Forbear to ask questions at this time Okay, um comments on the changes to design Saber I'll defer to later I'm okay with the moving the units adding the additional building What I don't like is the Metal siding that's on the fourth floor for those buildings Looking at the conceptual design photos No offense, but it looks like cargo containers on the fourth floor I think I an easy fix for that would be to change that to the smooth hardy panel siding that we see on building a D and e have the metal siding that I couldn't see I I didn't make note about the other the other buildings that have it. I believe it's building b I think it would look much better with the smooth hardy panel siding Like it does on building a But the rest of the changes i'm okay with And I know that you had approval for the metal siding before so Unfortunately, I wasn't here for that. Are you Recommending the third and fourth as a hardy rather than any metal take the metal on the third floor off Which is I didn't see on the third floor which building never mind There isn't anyone it so that making the fourth floor hardy is fine Correct to match the other right that's fine. Thank you Just a couple of questions the exterior of the building and The streetscape that's on there Seeing are the On the architectural site plan a 1.1 c The green trees there there are those existing Trees or are those proposed trees and are the dotted circles Existing or proposed. I'm kind of curious about what you're actually doing Yes The green ones in the front were already approved. Okay And they are trees. I just Again that that predates me so I'm kind of trying to draw my head what should the thinking of This is going towards more thinking about the streetscaping there Well, one thing I'm looking at and it's something I'm hoping we can do through staff rather than go through a hearing again Is the four trees that are in the cut out area? We'd like to make that more of a park looking area Of the small courtyard there. Yeah, because are we on the yeah Because it faces the round barn and faces the park there and we think it'd be nice Even though you have to walk to it From the apartments. I think it's much nicer Surely much nicer than looking at care for moving trucks But we want to go in and up and and make that a little bit And our landscape people are are Going to send something back for review. We may even have that for the next hearing Okay, I'd be interested in seeing that yet because I'm that was my next question was Going around the whole building the dotted circles. Are those proposed trees? Are those kind of place holders there? You're talking about the trees on donahue. So if I if I move this you're talking about these little round circles here Yes, yeah, they are trees They are trees, correct. Okay. Yeah. Um, and so my question also then going um towards Materials for that courtyard area. Um, there's one it might just be kind of placeholder image You know, you're thinking concrete courtyard thinking anything permeable. I mean sort of material wise You know, I appreciate all the work that's gone on the building envelope, but for the actual You know, you're Like I was saying before across the street from the park. How is that being integrated and softened from just industrial building to permeable streetscape Yes, uh, we we'll bring that to the next hearing but Essentially similar to what we had approved last time. We had seating out there. We had some raised planter areas So we had softened that whole entry area to make it you know more inviting more of an entry recess into the building So we'll bring that forward with more detail last from so that that's a will be addressed in the next Correct around and it's also important to understand behind that entry area Is the entrance? There's another entrance there and a whole garden area that's going to be inside the building Yeah, and that's all going to be part of what you'll see as far as the inside outside park area Because we'd like to create a lot more than what's there Sure. Yeah, and uh, I think it would be hard to get less but um, at least to that area, but uh um Yeah, I would I would I'd be interested in in the next round to see Choice of materials choice of permeable, you know if that comes in terms of like paving planters Some ways to break it up. So it's not solid And that that could help um address the The facade of the the building that's that's there as well, you know more trees, but just thinking about you know cutouts Well, you know, I'm also interested in storm water and things like that. So once what's happening with that I look forward to the next round. Thank you or Thank you. I I Do lament that early on you know back in the 2014 cycle had a sales report been done You probably wouldn't be here. You'd be billed. Maybe I'm not sure but There's a lot of other issues, but I wanted um counter one thing delicately on eric What I like about the project now is that there is this block of history in the middle In flanking it with the new architecture I actually love the color shift of the fourth floor Now you can you can take hearty plank and go vertical and paint it if there's a question about metal, but I'm not opposed to the metal. I really think that one of the The more thrilling things now in the project And Kevin you're you're nodding your head as well It has this kind of a flight Feeling that the the a buildings the e building. I love the fact that there's no arches in the stucco And going back to history in the old buildings after they're all sandblasted. Hopefully the coning the brick won't fall out, but The old building has its history. It's it's a novel written. It's Cervantes Don Quixote. It's it's there. That's the hope Is is that that novel stays the new novels that are written on each end Um, I I love the uh the balconies and the canopies that are shown And I I think it's clever that you're using a red plaster With a gray's and in the black windows, but I'm I'm for one Thinking now that the project has a freshness to it an energy because of the elevations It it preserves potentially I'll say this it preserves history More if you can keep that roof on and I know there's still cars driving around somewhere down there But um, I would not Simulate floor three was floor four. I would let floor four have its own music like like you're doing with it's um It just there's a lightness to that and I know that you can be successful in in painted cementitious and No metal is also quite crisp and wonderful too But I think my overarching Concerns in the past about livability in building C. This is the ninth time maybe I've said this you you're liberating yourself From caged canaries now being inside that building the birds are free to fly now and you've you've put them now In bird talk of each end. So I know there's other things to talk about and it's it's nice Adam you've spoken about landscaping. There are a lot of issues around how to how to interface I'm not sure how staff when it comes to The pedestrian nature the the train now and how the Commercial square footage plays out some of the buildings have dog footed them and and they've got storage if they're animated more I'll just leave it to staff as you look at your report at how How those buildings are now occupied by humanity that's not housing My understanding is that we're we're okay with this horse trade of parking stalls and that That's been bedded in the tables. I would expect seeing this again in a more formal level We would see the doorbell count and the parking count and whatever the ratio is 1.5 or 1.12 stalls That those stalls are there Um to sabre's point about allocating housing units at least the the table the conditions of staff Are that x whether it's 15 percent or whatever but the the conditions of approval are that x number of affordable units are there And with the parking ratios in the x units of affordability And the fact that it's in this station zone where the the height of the building potentially is Tolerable at four stories I can't speak on behalf of both boards, but I love the idea of generally History being less touched less fussed with More asleep restful, but not dead with new doughnuts Yeah Okay, that's that's my comments. Thank you Thank you warren. Um, I'll keep it simple. Uh, I agree with warren. Um, I think You know kind of celebrate the industrial look. I know What eric's talking about in the rendering it looks a little bit container-ish But I think that as it is built it won't look that way And my only comment or question and it can be addressed at the next Meeting is the color I for some reason I remember it being a darker Metal for then what's being shown here. It's kind of like a lighter Gray and in the renderings right now And so I'm just I'd prefer to see it be a little more Dark because then I think it gets away from that cartoonish Container or in gun metal. Yeah, then then kind of grayed out. Um, so that would kind of be the only comment It's just in some of the photos. It looks a little bit lighter like A-7.8.2 Is the render is the Rendering shown in an actual photograph So it's probably just a depiction of the different colors, but anyways, I'd prefer to see a darker color On that fourth floor Scott if you look at a one six a I'm in the wrong package Shows building d at donnie you at ninth, let's see Which one was I on now I lost it Building II. I think it was the previously approved. Yeah, it's previously approved. Okay So that's that's why yeah, which attachment is that I'm sorry Now I lost it There we go It's a reduced attachment three Approved plans and it was A1 Yeah, so a one six a There's a picture with the darker gray. So maybe if that middle sighting matched that darker gray Trim Yeah, I mean even the Sighting in this picture looks darker than in the picture I was looking at so as long as it's darker in nature I think it would play better with the brick and the colors and No arches no Is there a comment on on the fourth change? Which is the side of building 9th street and a street as far as what kevin was proposing It's the one that shows his change to building uh, a and the building d on the or building a on both sides You have that one Oh, sorry. Well, I okay the one that has the this the two one is up top one's down below shows the original proposed building right A and then below it I think or above it one of the other it shows What kevin's asking for uh to change it? I just want to get a comment if you like the change he's making Trying to find it in my plans Oh, yeah, yeah, you're talking about the okay. Yeah, yeah the yeah I Thought that it looked more handsome and simpler So that's my that's all Anybody else want to comment? But on the that he's taking and wrapping it around except for all the glazing that was originally there No, remember the two, um, I don't think we I don't know that we have your presentation in our Package here Yes, yeah and all the glass all the glass and the the stairwell Was all the glass and now it's you want them more the most recent more subdued look correct So so their proposal is your green light Wanted everybody else think of that. I liked it a lot better. Yeah I think those of us who were on the board before But we we we saw it remember it and and the new the new, um, look Is more serene tasteful and Healthy all right I'll be you cultural heritage board any final comments No I know from ann john If you're going along with the metal what how would it be treated? on the Upper floor It was a pre-painted finish metal I think it was the darker color. I don't know why they're ready to remember. Yeah I think it might help staff There is a reference specifically in uh diana painter's report It's the first paragraph under background And it'll help you in your quest for the information we're looking for The last couple of sentences The intensive level survey that accompanied the proposed development Found the complex individually eligible for listing in the national register by survey evaluation as well as being eligible As a contributor to a national registered district Therefore the building complex is considered a historic historic resource for purposes of sequa But she clarifies that down in the footnotes And this might actually sort of be the beginning of your your thread to where to find this info Note that the building complex is a contributor to a local district not a national register district as the Building was never ultimately put forward for the national register nomination Nonetheless a contributor to a local district that is recognized by the state as this one is Is considered a historic resources for purposes of sequa and that's the clarification we're looking for so Check in with any of us and we can help more Okay Okay, I think with that we're done so Do you have the reference may ask that where you complained about the fourth floor awarding That confused you on building c. Can I just get the reference on what that is? So we can check it on page four of 12 of her report It is she has a very nice section where she item on change number two change number three and change number four Here's changes the criteria by which She's evaluating whether these changes are problematic or not The addition the change number two is specifically stipulated as the addition of a fourth story on building c That's the one you probably want to strike right. We'll strike that out because we're not going at this time into that level We may in the future, but we just not there Thanks Okay with comments complete from both boards on this concept review We will move on to Item number eight board member reports. Thank you for your time this evening Thank you all We'll see we'll see We'll look forward to it Board member reports any from design review You have any board member reports from cultural heritage board. No reports seeing none. We'll move on to department reports Yes, thank you. So I just wanted to let both the boards know that the city council last week approved a Ordinance change to the city's density bonus ordinance They had a second reading this week and that ordinance will go into effect in about 31 days The changes were primarily to address changes in state law But we also have a new provision for what was called supplemental density bonus which would allow To properties to go up to Possible 100 percent density bonus in certain areas of the city And those areas are focused around the downtown stationary specific plan And the north santa rosa stationary specific plan around that northern smart station um the The changes were directed by council through the housing action plan The plan with staff these projects As similar to the the deterred project had a density bonus that came before you So it is likely that you will at some point see a project that could potentially be utilizing that supplemental density bonus Beyond what is allowed by the state We want to give you an opportunity to hear from staff about what that ordinance involves And help us help you to understand what it means before you see a project So because of its complication, we don't want to bring that before you until we know that a project is coming before you So the plan is to once we know a project Is proposed that will come before one or both boards We will schedule a study session with you to go over the proposed ordinance and all of its intricacies and answer any questions That you might have That's all Thank you. Any questions from the staff report? seen none So on my adjournment item number 10, I've got the we're going to take a dinner break And so i'm wondering Yeah, you want to take a short one. I was just going to pull the six six six Okay 15 minutes And meanwhile, I need to adjourn the cultural heritage board because we will not be rejoining you We're going to head out, right? Okay. Well, it's been a it's been a pleasure as always. Thank you vice chair furser Lovely working with you folks Good luck with your evening. Thank you. So we will adjourn this meeting for 15 minutes and we will reconvene the designer review board I'd like to call to order the Regular meeting of the design review board for the city of santa rosa January 17th 2019 I wanted to take a minute before we move on to roll call to thank Both applicants members of the public and staff for their patience. Well, we grabbed a quick bite to eat We've been at it since 230 so of us a little bit earlier So we appreciate getting some sustenance to continue on this evening. So thank you With that patty, can I have a roll call, please? Let the record reflect that all board members are present except for board members weigel and zucco Thank you And moving on to item number two approval of the minutes item 2.1 or minutes from january 3rd 2019 Does anybody have any comments sabre? So sorry, I have no comment. I was going to move to approve Any comments on changes to the minutes Hearing none. Oh good. I might because when last time I looked at the minutes It didn't have any minutes in it. Maybe it's an updated version. I'm sorry so there were none of None of the board member comments At all or anything. It's like that in the minutes that I have is that Correct This is for item 6.1, which was preliminary and final design for the piner road assisted living residents Yeah, so approval of minutes for 2.1. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, which was january 3rd. I see that In the draft minutes. Yes, I don't see any comments Yeah, um, we're having some problems with legislature So, um, I'll call the city clerk tomorrow and get some help with that to get the condition Put in the minutes Okay, thank you Okay, with notating that we're uh Going to add the comments into the minutes We'll leave it at that Great Okay, uh, we have board business Um Since some of you weren't here earlier. I uh welcomed a new board member first meeting today adam Sharon So welcome again. This is back to a regular meeting instead of a joint meeting. So you see how this rolls But welcome again And uh with the appointment of Myself as chairperson of the board, uh, we also need to appoint a vice chair And so we can either I had it put on the agenda so that it was an option to discuss tonight But we can certainly uh table it for the next meeting and hope that we might have both true and kevin Here with us. So what does everybody think? Are you looking for a motion for the vice chair or just a decision to punt until next Meeting hoping that we have a full quorum I'd make a motion To nominate warren hedge path as vice chair Warren, would you entertain continuing on as vice chair of the designer review board? Yes, I'm grateful to be alive and while i'm still alive. I would do so. Thank you so so I've got a motion from eric and the Acceptance to continue on as vice chair. Do I have a second? Sabra second I second Okay any discussion Patty can I get a roll call? Okay board members Brear. Yes gold schlong Hi hedge path Hi concave. Hi Sharon Hi Thank you. We cleaned up board business. Very nice eric Then thank you warren for continuing on as vice chair You can you can sit at my right For the time being I did such a good job before they will Okay, um, this is where I read the statement of purpose The review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties And the city in general Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan any applicable specific plan Applicable zoning code standards and requirements Consistency of the project with the city's design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements That is the direction of this board At this time, I would like to open up public comment on any items that are not on tonight's agenda Uh, those that are on the agenda, uh, we will have public comment during those agendized items Seeing no one approaching the microphone. I will close public comment Item number five statements of extension by board members Do we have any abstentions for tonight's item 6.1? or 6.2 Seeing none We will move on to our first scheduled item item 6.1 Which is a continued public hearing community baptist church foesteeple and building mounted minor telecommunication facility design review minor at 1620 Sonoma avenue file number dr 1805 And I will turn it over to andrew for a staff report Great. Thank you chair kinkade and good evening members of the design review board This evening's public hearing is a continued public hearing the item was first presented to Design review board on december 6 2018 in advance of this evening's meeting I did prepare a summary memo that described the Board's recommendations on the project as it was previously presented as well as revisions to the project That were submitted by the applicant Included in that memo were attachments To which was the revised plan set dated october 14 2019 the revised photo simulation stated january 14 2019 and then Yesterday distributed via email was the revised project narrative dated january 16 2019 And additionally, I did Give to patty this evening a letter that was received later this afternoon from the property owner Expressing the Property owner support for the revisions to the proposed design So with that in mind, I'd like to quickly Go through the presentation that was given on december 6 to familiarize Everybody with the project and then move forward to the revisions as presented by the applicant So it's minor design review for a fourth steeple the project that was reviewed Included a 54 foot tall structure with a 12 by 12 foot building footprint As well as a ground lease area located to the rear of the property The design element for review on that component was the six foot tall composite wood privacy fence around the perimeter The reason it was elevated to design review board for design review is because the neighborhood indicated that the Design was a component that was particularly Important to them as well as the fact that both the design guidelines and the zoning code Lack defined standards for a steeple tower structure And the authority is given to the director to elevate projects as appropriate whereas he deems necessary The project location is on sonoma avenue in northeastern santa rosa And there we see it's a specific location situated well within otherwise low density residential development And here are some photos the upper photo shows the church structure and property from sonoma avenue Lower left hand corner We see the rear of the church structure where the proposed steeple tower would be located And finally the rear of the property back about 30 feet from the top of spring creek where the 25-square-foot ground lease area would be located The project history is quite lengthy. We've been working on this project since it was submitted in january 16 2018 It has held a neighborhood meeting Waterways advisory committee has reviewed the application And we are on our third shot clock extension following the jant december 6 design review board meeting The applicant in the city did agree to a Shot clock time extension extending the project deadline to january 30th 2019 So if the project is approved at this evening's meeting with a 10 day appeal period The the applicant would receive final approvals by january 30th With regard to the continued public hearing The the project was continued to a date certain of december 20th 2018 Then at the december 20th meeting design review board continued it to a date uncertain because the applicant had not prepared revisions at that point in time We did then require re noticing because it was continued to a date uncertain public hearing notices were distributed on december 31st 2018 That included a notice for publication in the press democrat There was an issue with Another public hearing notice that was due to be published on the same day that public hearing notice It was requested that the notice be pulled Press democrat inadvertently pulled the wrong notice and pulled the public notice that was to be Advertised for this public hearing We reviewed it with the city attorney the city attorney determined that that air and noticing Because there were three other methods of noticing Could be allowed in the public hearing could be held this evening I would like to note here that there have been no public comments in response to the noticing for this public hearing So the zoning is r2 within a Majority of the area is owned r16 I didn't want to show this slide to point out that the zoning administrator Had approved the minor conditional use permit for the minor telecommunications facility use On december 6th There were no appeals filed for that approval. And so That minor conditional use permit for the the use that has been approved The proposed site plan shows the location of the proposed steeple tower As well as the ground lease area And we look at the project details as they were originally Presented I like to point out on this slide that the the maximum height of the proposed tower is 54 feet As compared to the 23 feet for the top of the existing building Again another perspective of the tower height And then we have some photo simulations that show what was proposed we see that it's a a 54 foot tall tower with solid surfaces embellished with the religious cross This is a perspective from the rear of the parcel or looking towards the front And then finally another perspective from Sonoma Avenue There were no openings in the proposed tower and The tower footprint again was 12 foot by 12 foot comprised of all Same material which was an rf Radio frequency type of fiberglass material that allows transmission of radio frequency waves The ancillary equipment area is located at least 30 feet from the setback of the spring creek top of bank And we can see here. This is the proposed six foot tall Wood composite fence solid fence And then this is if the design review review board was to approve this but desired for all Equipment within the ground lease area to be screened Then the applicant could add two feet of lattice on top of that six foot tall solid fence The design review board did not weigh in on a decision on the screening So we would ask that you do review and Consider that this evening as well So the issues the proposed steeple height the original proposal was for 62 feet with an eight foot square footprint During planning review that was revised by the applicant to 54 feet tall with a 12 foot square footprint That was in consideration of the neighborhood's Primary complaint about the design as it related to the height There are no building height limits related to towers gable spires or similar structures Other objections related to the proposed use of the land And then an objection to the design and location of the proposed foe steeple including why it's needed Again the height and the suggestion that it could be moved to the rear or the side of the church building I believe in the December 6 presentation it was indicated that Part of the location of the structure is the applicant's Negotiations with the property owner and the property owner prefers the location where it's currently proposed So The design review board members on December 6 voted to continue the public hearing encouraged the applicant to consider redesigning the steeple with a smaller footprint Including materials authentic to the church at the lower level of the steeple using real materials adding some detail and variation And then as well as including some some openings in the surface plains of the steeple tower walls There were some sketches conceptual sketches that were provided to the applicant Following the meeting and so the applicant prepared this following study based upon those sketches The sketches featured horizontal bands creating smoke in us in the the tower And we can see that here And then the applicant after after studying those recommendations Responded by reducing the structure footprint from a 12 by 12 foot footprint to 9 by 9 foot footprint Which is what they're currently proposing They are in fact going to design vertical openings on all of the surface plains. We'll see that in just a moment with a Some space separating the top of the structure wall and the roof And they are going to diversify materials to include metal grill works within those openings These are the So we see here the photo simulations provided by the applicant showing the Opening at the top of the structure the cross Feature which was added and is flush mounted on the structure the applicant did study that but concluded that Using the rf material That it did need to be flush mounted for safety and security purposes Then we see the vertical openings with the screening elements And another view I would like to note that at the at the bottom the openings at the ground level We did talk to the applicant about those openings and the applicant has revised that design To extend those openings are currently about six feet tall at the ground level And then finally another view from sunoma avenue again So here's the proposed redesign in the The schematic we can see that the ground opening is six feet tall six feet wide those would be Metal or aluminum grills which would provide security to keep people from entering into the tower But it would also provide sufficient space for maintenance upon the antennas and located inside the tower whether that's standard maintenance or Changing out those antennas at some point in time it would facilitate that Of what this while this does show the proposed openings in the tower It does not show the grill work that would be proposed to be placed within those openings And then here's another perspective from the side of the tower again reflecting the the openings As well as the the area the open area between the top of the wall and the roof but not reflecting the religious cross The project as revised Is still exempt from sequence subject to section 15 301 class 1 exemption for existing facilities Section 15 303 a class 3 exemption for new construction or conversion of small structures And finally section 15 300 point 2 the exceptions for historic resources Was found to be Not applicable because the the site is not recommended eligible for the national register Of historic properties or the california register of historic properties Again, no additional comments were received in response to the notice of continued public hearing dated december 31st 2018 It is recommended by planning an economic development department that the design review board Approved minor design review for the faux steeple and screening of the ancillary equipment area proposed in conjunction with a building mounted minor telecommunications facility And staff is available to answer any questions the applicant is here this evening The applicant does not have the presentation but is prepared to answer questions. Thank you Andrew, thank you. That was a very complete and thorough recap and proposed project Design so with that sabra any questions for staff? The one thing I didn't find was what the materials were at ground level And how those compared to the request for real materials similar to those used on the main building I would defer that question to applicant. I think they are prepared to answer that question Yeah, why don't you come down and that way we can handle whatever questions would be best Answered by you Jerry johnson on behalf of applicant verizon Wireless so the underlying structure would be a still support structure And then it would be either wood or stucco and that would be at the board discretion so Either wood or stucco And the material used on the main structure of the church The church structure is brick and based on comments we received from the design review board It was recommended that we not use brick for the faux steeple. Okay. Thank you Eric Two two questions to confirm the fence there were The plan for the fence is six feet with two feet of lattice on top of that eight feet total Art for the the fence around the equipment. I'm sorry sure sure so the applicant had proposed a six foot solid composite wood fence if we look at If we look here, we can see that there is still some equipment that appears Might rise above the the extent of that fence so It is in a residential zoning district and in residential zoning districts Fence six feet tall solid with two feet of lattice would be Permitted by right and so the applicant has agreed that if it is the preference of the design review board To add two feet of lattice to the top of that six foot solid fence to ensure that all equipment is screened Thank you. And then the second question The rendering photos so there's no longer a cross on the steeple There if you'll notice in the photo that I presented this evening there is a cross I believe in the Um photo simulations that you received via ledger star or ledger I legislate whatever the service is That uh, that you're correct that those photo simulations did not reflect the cross They have been updated to reflect the cross as you see here So there will there will be a cross on the on it then they're well confirming. Okay. Yes. Those are my two questions. Thank you Adam This thanks Uh on the plans, uh, well first of all, um, I would definitely um encourage at two feet of lattice In case any equipment pokes its its head over the top there Uh On the plans a 3.1. Um I don't see it called out the the screening On the ground is repeated in the center portion of the Um The openings, but it does in the the rendering So there is it will the screening match or is it going to be open in those? We would recommend screening on those openings to prevent debris or animals from being able to enter the structure That that would I would also agree with that recommendation. Um, it just because that's not Uh drawn in here on the on the plans. Um Okay, um, thank you for answering that or Yeah, thank you. Um similar to Adams So I know that in screening McNichols, there's a lot of different companies that have perforated Screen and then there's woven screen, but somehow you'll it I like what I see in the The general appearance that to to keep the birds and debris out. There's some Relative it's transparent, but it's it's something pre manufactured It's not wood lattice. It's metal and that same would go to the the ground as well So at the six foot level with the ground level and up the tower property, you'd have the same material If that's the board's preference, we had um thought about at the ground level Adding something that was a little bit more decorative That was a little bit more solid Because the ground level could possibly be accessed by the public. We would want something that was a little bit Would prohibit people from being able to access at the ground level but also allow service technicians To be able to access the structure. Okay, that's that's understood the other kind question was um The the stucco is a reassuring choice. I think because the the simulated engineered brick When when you build the structure, it's typically going to be a maybe a wheeling metal stud Maybe it's a two by six two by eight and the return when you have these openings in it the the question is um When you drive by this you're going to see the thickness of the wall and the stucco would return back in the jams and Excuse me the stucco that you see in the face There would be a return of that material It's almost like a window opening so to speak but the the actual Plastering of the inside of that opening as it turns that it returns back head jam so Do you understand that question? You're talking about being able to see one side from a different perspective Yeah, you you building this thing out of metal studs It's going to be plastered on the face when you have an opening The thickness of the stud you would return back and cover That thickness of the of the metal member with plaster as well Correct. Yes, correct And I I know that the the colors on the Church prop it's kind of a chocolate brown Roof between the eve and the in the gable The question about that same chocolate color right now you have a silver it looks like just a Silver but there there's a question about whether the bars that the metal Flutes what color they are that the top Of the canopy there or the tower excuse me the question about whether that would want to match Like the chocolate eve line of the church. Maybe that was just the rendering didn't color it, but that was a question Andrew and I actually talked about that top that top hat and that kind of off-white Color there and so we are open to You know making the color scheme consistent if that's if that's necessary. Yeah, that'll look nicer. Yes Thank you Warren. Um, can I ask how you feel about the lattice in the equipment area? Over over the fence six foot fence two foot lattice I'm not really disturbed by it. I think the last would help I mean, I love seeing plants grow and cover the whole thing It'd be nice to just be a green box with ficus on it, but there's maintenance there, but Yeah, if we could screen material so that it wouldn't bruise the eye, is that it? Great. Thank you. And I don't have any questions for the applicant or staff Um, so at this time I would like to open the meeting for a public comment Um, I see someone headed up to the podium. So if you can just give us your name and then Take your three minutes or so to tell us about your thoughts on the project Okay, west annuals Excuse me. I own the uh, I own the house directly across the street Um, I was very I was very upset with the bulk of the Uh, the 12 by 12 proposal when we we went to the public meeting and it was eight by eight It's it's better now, but it should still be eight by eight nine by nine is 40 percent more area and And the the public weighed in on the basis On on the understanding that would be eight by eight and and and it wouldn't balloon out to 12 by 12 And and and and I think that the bulk and the aspect ratio I wouldn't mind it was a little taller, but but I think that the The aspect ratio is better at eight feet and the bulk is better at eight feet at at 12 feet it looked like a high rise with no windows and And I think this is very sensitive to slunderness Thank you. Mr. Daniels Any other members of the public wishing to comment on item 6.1? Seeing none, I will close the public comment on this item and bring the attention back to the board for comments Before we do comments if there's a motion to consider That would be fantastic I'll uh, I'll make my attempt Make a motion to Approve the community baptist church foe staple and building mounted minor telecommunication facility Uh at 16 20 snowman avenue, which would be file number dr 18 dash 005 And also approve as proposed Including the six-foot fencing with the two-foot lattice topping on that second Okay, now we'll have discussion saber you want to start us off Sure, um First I I'd like the petitioner to correct me if I misremember something so as I recall You can't make this tower taller than 54 feet We reduce the height as a direct response to neighborhood concerns regarding the height Also, the c up has determined that the height is 54 so 54 feet is The desired height and that is in direct response to The concerns of the neighborhood. That's what I recalled I also recalled that because you had a height constraint you also had Dimension constraint that you you could reduce the footprint And would be working to reduce it as far as you could but you weren't certain you could go back to eight foot by eight foot Is that correct? correct there are technical constraints and nine feet by nine feet is The smallest we can get The structure with me here tonight is the radio frequency engineer from Verizon and he can speak to Those limitations regarding the width of the steeple and and why we need the nine feet by nine feet And it's so that the antennas can be configured correctly Thank you. That's my only Comment on or only set of questions on that I'm delighted you were able to reduce the footprint I think the design looks a good deal more modern Yeah, it's it's in keeping with the Sense of the church, but it's not mimicking a 1960s design, which I also appreciate I'm not certain I understand why there are openings at the ground floor But that's just a quibble that I don't need to understand that architecturally to say that this looks good and seems to be Consonant with the original church building. So thank you for that A quick note the opening at the bottom is to allow Service technicians to access the the steeple for routine maintenance and upgrades So it allows them to be able to get up into the structure. Well, I understood that there was an access I just didn't exactly understand why that access door was grow work instead of Panel, okay Eric I do think the the redesign looks much better And I appreciate it and I'm commend the applicant for trying to meet as many needs as possible of the the residents And doing The best they can to again listen to the time the review board Listen to the residents lower the tower shrink the footprint and I think it's You were successful in trying to accomplish the best you can The the input that that you receive. So I appreciate you So I appreciate that and I appreciate the the residents input I'm glad to see you and hear you as well. So thank you Thanks, Eric Adam Yes To piggyback on what sabre was saying about the Access at the bottom. Um, just Does there need to be access on all four sides? No, so if if the board thinks that it would look better to have Some of those openings closed off and just leave access for the service technician that that's fine From my standpoint, I wasn't here for the initial discussion in december I appreciate reducing the mass of the the structure with the openings in the center portion But from For my preference would be to have more of a sturdy pedestal look because to make make the The tower not look You know, like it's going to tip over or blow over it But to give it a sturdier bottom. So, um, I would prefer to have it be enclosed I appreciate some discussion amongst other board members, but And and also, I mean, that's just sort of aesthetic and the weight of the structure, but Also the material of having an open screening down at the bottom invites, you know Children climbing on it Okay There's access and safety concerns, but there's also just, you know, general People kind of messing with it and if it's a wall, it's not necessarily there and it looks sturdier and more solid So, okay. Thank you. Oh and one other to To to go with the the stucco and and matching the The the facade of the church as much as possible to him and the colors on top Before I leave you adam, do you have a preference on where the opening is? What do you want it on the? East side of the steeple. So it's facing the interior to the existing buildings and then you would want the solid walls on the facing the street and then facing I guess itself I would say because it looks like there's an entrance on the back side. Um, oh well the I would imagine that the Opening would be on the wall facing the wall of the church I see it as much as possible. So solid walls around and then that's one side. So I don't know if there's a room there, but If there's access if possible, then we would you would want to retain the six by six Opening on the east wall of the steeple tower and then the southwest and north elevations would be Solid down to ground level Yes, okay. Yeah, I think that that makes sense or Yeah, I again, I appreciate all that's been said I Matching that matching the colors of the the silver back down to the chocolate brown. I think a A charcoal gray for the screen would be great My thought on the on the base is if it's solid I I guess I I rather like the idea of at least one like the the west side Which is accessible if that was Black or charcoal doors I kind of think it's it's uplifting and fun to have avoid there because it Strengthens the the columns. That was my thought. I was trying to make it lighter. I'm not I don't want to get fussy here overly granular that there was a sense of Of lightness to the structure That was poetic in my opinion, but it's only one opinion in a democracy Thanks Warren to your comment on the Um Details were you saying that this should be those Ribs should be like a dark brown chocolate. Okay match the trim color. They're just going to stand out. Nothing else is his silver Okay, and then the charcoal gray for the screening. Yeah, maybe the doors below and maybe the doors below, okay Um I want to commend the applicant For making the changes. I think that you took what the board had to say and really made it happen Both in you know Shrinking down the size of the footprint and opening it up so that it kind of feels airy and less of a pencil look I'm still a huge proponent personally of just having a metal Pole not in that location, but I think I can go with it based on the majority of the board here So I want to recap what I've heard so far as conditions of the approval Shall provide two-foot lattice on top of the six-foot fence at the mechanical yard that was in the motion We'll just leave it as a condition as well Trim at the top of the steeple shall match the color of the trim on the existing church Steeple shall be solid On three sides or do we decide two sides three? Anybody preference shall be solid on three sides My preference is three. I agree with adam And sabre is holding up three so We'll go with democracy voting rules and uh, we'll call it shall be solid on three sides And so that would put opening at the east side facing the um existing building Opening At the east side You're talking about an access door Not a screen And just for clarification, you're talking about solid on the base of the structure. Yes, steve will show me solid on three sides at base of structure With opening at the east side facing the existing building Real quick on that. Yeah when it rains all that rains gonna pop up on all the stucco but if there was I wish there was planting along it it would soften your your maintenance on your stucco go way down but if there's a little ring like a foot of grass or something there because you're going to have a discolored future Do you want to make that a uh consider or do you want to just okay? consider perimeter landscape and buffer surround and then um consider charcoal gray for screen and doors any other uh thoughts or I mean just just for clarification we've I've heard that the door the access door Is on the east side and I've also heard that it's on next to The church but the church is to the north Of the tower so Yeah, there's a little wing that pops out of the existing buildings to the east but Just looking at the plan view. I don't know that there's going to be room for doors to open out Okay, I just want to make sure that we were clear. Yep Thank you for that clarification and then accent vertical elements to match The existing trim color of the church Okay, so one more time through I have shall provide two foot lattice on top of six foot fence at mechanical yard Trim at the top of the steeple shall match the color of the trim on the existing church Steeple shall be solid three sides at the base of the structure with opening at the east side facing the existing building consider perimeter landscape buffer surround consider charcoal gray for the screens and doors And then the accent vertical elements to match the existing trim color of the church And to make that happen we need a friendly amendment to the motion which was made by eric and seconded by sabre, so I'd like to make a friendly motion Approving said conditions and suggestions as noted in wavering of the text Does the motion or accept the friendly amendment? I do. Yes, and the second accept Any questions from the applicant or staff on this condition in motion Okay patty roll call, please brayer gold schlag I Sharon hi Hedge path. Hi kinkate. Hi Thank you much appreciated. Thanks. Andrew. Thank you okay And now we are on to item 6.2 final designer view round barn village at zero round bar boulevard file number dr 18 dash zero six nine I go ahead and turn it over to staff for a presentation Thank you chair kinkade and design review board members I'm gary broad. I'm a contract planner working for the city And this is a follow-up to the hearing that the design review board had on november 15th of last year on this application And at that time the design review board considered both Preliminary and final design review for this application The design review board went ahead and approved the preliminary design review application For this project and requested that it be brought back To a subsequent drb meeting with additional Information provided As part of the project review And specifically drb asked that the final design review address the following That a detailed landscape plan including specific fence design be provided That the design submitted for that design be submitted showing pool and other amenity buildings That the applicant considers simplification of architectural details at porches canopies And second and third floor building volumes That a lighting plan be submitted compliant with the preliminary design review submittal requirements That the applicant consider enhanced paving at crosswalks leading from the main arteries. I'm sorry the main entries Um, and finally that stronger accent colors be considered In response to these comments the applicant team has submitted Additional plans for detailed landscaping slash fencing design Pool and other amenity buildings And a detailed lighting plan The applicant has uh been requested to provide a narrative Responding to all six of the comments that drb made at its last meeting And the applicant Will be addressing that at the meeting either with a handout or verbally tonight Planning and economic development is recommending that the design review board by resolution approve the final design review For the round barn village I'd be happy to answer any questions from drb and additionally we do have The applicants elevation Plans submittal that we can put up if drb members wish to be able to look at anything On the projected screen And we have a charity Wagner here representing the the project Excellent. Thank you very much for the presentation Uh questions for staff and any preference to have the plans posted up on the live screens I have no questions for staff, but I would want the plans posted Okay, we can do that Well, what's it named? But we're trying to find it on the computer It's all right, Eric's gonna try and break the system real quick We're gonna load that onto the computer in just a moment As we're working through that if there's any uh, do you have questions for staff, Eric? None This is a big one to jump into adam. So any questions for staff? I'm working my way through but uh, nothing at this time. All right, Warren None And I have no questions for staff We are not able to find it on the computer and our secretary has left the building so Government shutdown, right, I don't know if you want to take maybe a five minute. Are we able to Why don't you like just take I think we can uh, yeah We can figure out a way to do this Charity did you want to address the changes just verbally and we can kind of walk through our plan set and So, uh, the applicant did mention that the plans of what she's going to be showing are what were in your packet So We can also just reference While she's talking So you can pull it up on your iPad. It's another option That's a good link whatever as most expedient will work for us Just let us know what attachment you're on and what page and Hi, everybody. Sorry about that. I thought we had this all squared away earlier today, but uh Without further delay y'all have been out to since about 12 o'clock today. I hear so I will be Expeditious but thoughtful Tonight's meeting as Gary mentioned is the final design review and November 15th your board approved the preliminary design review and asked us to come back with some select items so For the newer members. I regret that you were here on the 15th, but you get to see Maybe more of the icing pieces if you will So from the top the first sheet in your packet is a color 11 by 17 that shows the pool area um the Intent of this in middle was to provide you with the items that you requested and then large part that surrounded the structures around the pool and a little bit more Information on how the pool is going to be laid out in the pool accessory buildings. So there is a single story Pool structure that is at the entrance to the pool building and it is kind of provides A gateway into the pool. You walk through a breezeway to get into the pool area The fencing around the pool includes I guess on this same sheet you're looking at It's called community center brown bar and village and on the bottom of there's details the retaining walls At the last meeting there was a lot of question with respect to Are y'all following me don't want to come look at your screens and make sure we're on the same page We're good. Okay good Yeah It looks I think I just Try attachment five staff report attachment five attachment five Thank you. Okay, so um The retaining walls at the bottom of this page there was some discussion about the Retaining walls at the last meeting and the intent of this was to show that the walls are a I'll call it geogrid type Wall that allows for the walls to be planted So you're not looking at a very solid wall surface and then on the top of that wall is a required safety rail Which we're proposing like a very simple kind of gable steel rail the intended that's for that to kind of disappear We don't really want that to be a feature, but it is required to have In addition there is a the next page The pool building This sheet shows the details for the pool enclosure wall There is a solid masonry wall on the sides of the pool if you will call it east and west On the back of the community area that On the northern portion if you will is a proposed a wrought iron pool enclosure fence And the intent of changing that from stucco to wrought iron is because there's actually quite nice views looking out that direction And then there's also a A spa that is on the I suppose west side of the of the community center That wall is a masonry wall with two kind of arbor structure on either side and then there's also in the pool area is a What we're calling an outdoor kitchen with a couple of barbecues and a countertop for cooking and preparing foods The next sheet shows the it's a landscape structures exhibit So in addition to additional information about the pool area itself The types of walls that were there and the pool building itself There was some question about other landscape structures our plans in the November meeting showed arborers and Had callouts for an entry monument, but the details of that weren't quite Elaborate at that point so we were asked to come back with more information on those so this exhibit shows where all those are located There are About I would call five different features So there's the entry monuments that exist on the two main points of access to the project site on the east and west side There are What we call peseo entry features. So as you're walking into the courtyards, there's a like a monumentation feature there Then there are overheads Like a arbor structure again In the gardens and at the main entrance park area And those are detailed the next two sheets are Enlargements of the landscape structure exhibit because it's a bigger site just makes it kind of difficult to follow where those features are proposed And if you flip to the sheet called Landscape structure exhibit that shows all the four various arbors you can see that we're looking at An entry monument so on both Both of the driveway entrances. There'll be arbors on either side Of the main entrances vehicular entrances to the site and then on one of them. There'll be a flanking Monument sign that will say round barn. It'll be lit up a little bit at the bottom There are also Peseo entry arbors we called them. So these actually have light fixtures on them And it's at the entrance to each of the peseos in the project kind of highlighting This is how you enter and to get into the individual units And then there are also larger arbors proposed at the Main park entrance to the site on the east side of the site as you drive in there's a large open space area there And we have intended to put a larger arbor to provide shade field to kind of gather out there And there's also one proposed in our community garden And then the last one's what called overhead arbors are Proposed in a few of our smaller parklets throughout the site The next exhibit is walls and fences This is also broken in half too to show a little bit more detail There are About four different types of walls and fence details There's the retaining wall which we discussed a little bit with respect to the pool There's the retaining walls in the site are largely adjacent to the community rec area And then also they run along the southern portion of the site where the access road is All of those walls are the same geogrid type plantable wall with a guardrail on top and they vary in height From about six feet. The largest one is 20 feet. That's the one behind the the rec center The there are also patio walls we show the details on the different types of Fence detail as you walk through the peseo And then the fence around the community garden and there are a couple low planter walls The next two sheets are again those kind of call outs showing you more detail where those wall types are And the detail sheet itself shows the detail of the guardrail proposed for the top of the retaining walls the The end units of each patio. So in each town home Building whether it's a four or eight unit town home building the end units will have Solid masonry wall and the interior units will either be this horizontal fence type or the vertical patio fence type so each every building will have a combination of all three different types of fence type And then also in the project there are these low planter walls just kind of provide some relief Within a couple of our few parklets which was shown on the previous exhibit And then the garden fence is proposed to be a wire mesh and wood fence around the community garden That's on the east end of the project. We are also showing all of the Tree planning and shrub planning. So the next two sheets are a color-coded tree type Plan to show actually three sheets. We broke this one up into three This is the far west side of the site. You can see the various layers of planting. We've picked oaks largely And pistachio Chinese pistachio is our street trees throughout the site And then in each of the individual Park like areas we've gathered trees to make them a little bit more individual for example this The children's play area that's at the I would call it northwest portion of the site This is an elm tree focused area And in the park area south of that By units 214 and 204. This is more of a sycamore themed planted area. So We were intentionally Selecting trees for the different park areas to provide some individuality, but also providing a more common plant plantscape I did check in today with the architect landscape architect who made it very clear that the trees and shrubs and ground cover and everything on site is Compliant with the city's living with fire fire-wise Landscape planting has been incredibly important to us from the get go and then also that we are wheel compliant as well, obviously we have to be but it's There I've had experience whereas it's disconnected between what we're showing and what we're saying So we're getting it right the first time here Um, or I guess this would be the third time right because I did conceptual then preliminary enough um But you follow me and then We also wanted to take time to show the entry feature areas so you can see how The patios will front onto the main entrance and how the yards work in relationship to Um yards the front patios i'm calling them yards because some of them are quite big And then there's a planter area between the patios And the sidewalks kind of providing some separation We also show the tree spacing and tree types in each of these enlargements We did the same for one of our parklets the what we're calling our children's play area And what I think is most noticeable here is that in a lot of townhome projects We don't have the benefit of really providing a substantial planter area between the patio on the sidewalk These projects get really tight And so we've taken the time to make sure that we have at least a four foot planter area there So we can get a good sized tree and provide a nice separation between the private patio fence and the and the walkway see site lighting We spoke a little bit about site lighting at the last meeting, but we didn't quite have enough Information to show where all the proposed lighting was located. So We did take time to do that in this um submittal. So we're showing our street lights our park Excuse me lighting in the parks all of our baller locations As well as the details of those lights specifically We also get down to the what we call more landscape lighting kind of uplift lights for trees and The planter walls as well as the signage out near the monument at the entries the light specifications that we chose which are shown So this exhibit shows In color where all the street lights are located and where all the ballers are located and then in this area here Shows the spec for that individual light and so what we did here was gives a thought to Smaking laugh so sorry we gave a lot of thought to The types of fixtures that we're picking trying to be um compatible with our what we're calling our modern farmhouse aesthetic I think I mentioned last time all lighting on site is private and will be maintained by the common homeowners association as part of the project And then the last two sheets are a floor plan and elevation of that pool building which we talked a little bit about So you can see that it has um the breeze way through the center with a gate at the back So it does provide a protection. Nobody can just run straight into the pool um and then this building largely encapsules restrooms and shower facilities There are direct Very strict requirements between how large your pool is drives how many showers and bathrooms you need So we've made sure we're consistent with those requirements here and then the types the materials and the features on here we also are Respectful and harmonious to the types of materials that you saw on the buildings which you presented last november So I I'm hopeful that this provides more level of Confidence and comfort in the the detail the more finer details of the project We are moving full steam ahead through an improvement plan process For this project. We are very excited to build townhomes in found grove. So um with that I'm happy to answer any questions or See if we can get to uh Our next step here. Thanks for your time Thank you very much Before questions i'm going to go ahead and open up public comment and then immediately close it since there's no one left in the room Um and with that sabra the questions for the applicant Well first I would really want to thank you for the thoroughness of this presentation. Um I know that when we last Saw you here We understood where you were headed, but we didn't have the details and that was those details really mattered to us I don't have any questions. I only have comments and so I'll pass to the next person Eric any questions none. Thank you Adam again large one to jump right into any questions Uh, sure. I do have a question off the bat. Um My landscape perspective and the trees perspective um Am I correct in seeing that it's it's uh, you have them broken out by Zones and street Treat or excuse me long day tree types But I don't see quantities on here That am I correct in seeing this that's All right, the the table does not um total the number of trees that are proposed. Um, but that they are shown graphically yep I guess it uh I guess it's more of a comment. So should I hold it till later or ask now Comments later comments questions now my comment for leader. Thank you for answering my question Orin questions no questions And I have no questions Yeah So, uh board does anyone have a uh motion to make I'll second I'd like to make a motion forwarding Disarm review With no conditions other than accepting the said package which has been submitted and Affirming that the intent and heart of the applicant will execute said work has drawn And this would be for file number dr 18-069 If we could uh read the resolution into the record So to clarify warren you would like to uh make a motion to approve the resolution of the design review board of the city of santa res of granting final design review approval for the Attached housing for the round barn village located at zero round barn boulevard Assessors parcel numbers 173-020-030 through 173-020-036 file number dr 18-069 and you would like to waive the reading of the text Indeed. Yes And do I have a second Second by sabra. Okay discussion um sabra So my initial comment is uh Again, I really thank you for the details I'm particularly impressed by the details of the lighting um One of the things that I didn't expect was the level of innovative lighting and um That you're you're emphasizing localized low level lighting In many places that provide a sense of safety and interest for The residents without becoming too bright Or or spending too much energy illuminating only streets makes me very pleased um I do think you missed A step by not saying how many of which kinds of plants are going to be planted The schematic is very interesting to me, but it's This green circle could be any one of those trees And um that does not help me as a person who's not a landscape architect Get a sense of the balance or the Best use of space Which is too bad Beyond that though, I'm just I think that you've brought it back to where it needed to be in detail Um, I know that there's always going to be concern about exiting you have two exits They go onto the same road and though that single road exits onto A single road and there isn't an easy second route And this is an area that's um In people's minds as a fire risk But you're constrained by the space you have to play with Again, I think you did a reasonably good job of Working with what you have working for the audience you have and creating a higher density housing in this area Eric comments I'm very excited for this project. I think it's great We do not have a lot of townhome projects in santa rosa and it provides for a More affordable housing Even though marketplace It's less of it's less expensive than single family residences. So I am very excited about this project I think it provides some much needed housing for some of the major employers that are in that area such as medtronic key site kaiser um and that has certainly been in the discussion for many Committees here in the city in the city. So It's a great project. Uh, I'd like to see Shovels in the ground as soon as you can. So thank you adam Uh judging from my question, you probably know where I was going or with my comment. Um, uh, as sabre was saying also, um The I'd I also appreciate the going down to the level of detail for details and specifications on the lighting but the trees and landscapes Uh, yeah, I I would want to see I appreciate the the variety and diversity of plantings that you're having but I would want to see a More detailed planting plan And again, I don't know if that is Would come later if that's in the next step. It's not we're not supposed to get to that step yet. I don't know if I'm jumping the gun Go ahead. I was just going to say this is the final step. So Okay. Yeah, so If this is the final step, um With the amount of Of trees and plantings you have the diversity I I would want to see where The actual plants are going what I want to see a really speculative because With so you you could run the risk, you know, you know You could run the risk of having either, you know 15 pistachio in a row and then 15 olives in a row something like that I would want to see the diversity. I want to really see how it's laid out. I would want to see some specs also in details of You know, you you call out bioswale trees. I'd want to see what you mean by a bioswale um We want to see a detail of that because bioswale had certainly has a a meaning of You know stormwater catchment filtration Detention retention and so I'd want to see Where those are and what they are and what area they're going to collect water from And uh And you know ground covers I'd want to see if if you're having zones that are either diversity of Species or if you're having swaths of species things like that With the children's play area as you call it It's I'm seeing smaller trees. I'd want to see more shade trees in incorporated into that especially in That that part of town especially on that aspect on the hillside If it is, you know a play zone of really having protected for small humans And another question on the community garden aspect So we got a pretty large development here and this You know, you got a couple a dozen planter beds for You know a couple a hundred Residences You know there's going to be demand for those And it feels somewhat Kind of a token You know sort of Community garden aspect there which you know that's can also be fine and say I'm not saying that we need to have Surround everything with farms or many many planter beds, but it's a It's a small community garden for a pretty large development Small play area for pretty large development too. So um from a landscape and Plant perspective, I'd want to see a bit more detail That's my comment Thanks adam Warren I just want to comment I've I've been here historically for the entire project and what was exactly asked Of you in the last submittal was really given. I'm not a licensed landscape architect But just carefully said you have a complete species list of all The monocots dicots the grasses that the whole range shrubs all the way through trees My entrust with this project and I've been on record is that you've You've looked at willow at susam Stormwater north coast. There's been a litany with the engineer the civil In concert with a c2 collaborative To understand collectively what it means to Marshal a project with with flooding issues And and all the above I would propose that in great respect in courtesy of the applicant That what I see Is sufficient It's a herculean that the graphics alone to cover this ground are a serious not just a stab But a full campaign Of intent Here that there's integrity belong belief and I love I love plants, but I work on projects myself where lighting isn't an exact science There's foot candles as low as 0.5 or 5. Can you find your car keys at 2 a.m? There there's spikes in lighting where it goes to 11 foot candles your dark sky compliant I would hazard there's about 36 different categories of compliance. You have marshaled and put together I want to even remark In the architecture I I had talked about gables and Some of the craftsmen Outriggers and you exactly to the t Located all Types of construction and character As as we had asked I don't know a thing in this package That I can see I would historically say that this is the most compliant package We have ever seen for what we've asked for it is large and it's easy to Perhaps concern that in an act of god's storm if we have a nine inch storm instead of a six inch storm will a tree Suffocate underwater too much That's in a swale is that is the tree swale worthy? I'm just going to call it that I I believe that we owe it to you um in all respect To endorse and for this project in its exact submittal and that your judgment in the field of how to execute said uh profiles Of soil friable parts sand parts loam You're going to do it That's my comment. Thank you Warren I understand the concerns of a couple of board members that have made uh their remarks on the landscape plan So I can't say that the landscape plan count isn't there and it's not 100 clear where things go, but I uh echo All of Warren's comments in total and being that it's nine o'clock I probably won't say anything other than I agree that this package is probably the most complete That we've ever seen and it is a large project and deserve to be very complete and I appreciate you Taking it to task and you've got a great design team, and I know that uh, you will execute the plan So, uh, well done. I look forward to seeing it up on the hill Um, so motion's been made as is seconded as is so let's go ahead and have a roll call free air. Yes Gold slog. Hi Sharon. Hi Hedgepeth Hi Kincaid. Hi Excellent. Well, thank you for your patience in the process and uh for seeing it through to the end and Again, let's let's get shovels on the ground excited the exciting part, right? Okay, uh, we are on to item number seven board member reports and since there was none earlier I'm guessing there's none now um and Jessica, did you think of any other? Apartment reports that you wanted to make uh, no, and I will uh not repeat myself so we can all go home And I just wanted to uh, thank uh staff and patty In particular again for the meal much appreciated in the snacks and for the long day. So, um, thank you very much And we are adjourned Thank you