 Good morning everybody and yes good morning because I am in Perth and because I am in Perth I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I am the Wajuk people of the Nungar Nation that I'd like to pay my respects to their elders past and present and I'd like to extend that respect to the traditional owners of the land on which you are today from wherever that might be in Australia or indeed around the world. Welcome to our second Q&A session for Fair Data 101 Express. My name is Matthias Liffus and joining me today is Nicola Burton and Dr Stephen McKeckin sorry Dr Nicola Burton and Dr Stephen McKeckin. Unfortunately Stephen is having some technical issues with his webcam so you won't be able to get to see his smiling face unfortunately but you will be able to hear his dull tones. So this is week two of Fair Data 101 Express which means accessibility. I'm hoping that you've all had an opportunity to go through the two pre-recorded webinars on accessibility and I do know it gets a bit heavy in parts especially with regards to the standardized communications protocols. You will have an opportunity to interact with an API in the activities and if you have any questions about that at all please bring them up in the Slack channel. Now if you weren't able to attend the Q&A session last week we are using the go-to webinar platform and this platform means that unfortunately you cannot broadcast questions yourself so you can't turn on your camera and your microphone and ask questions but there is a questions box or a questions module in the go-to webinar control box hopefully on the right of your screen. So if you would like to pose a question to our panelists today please type it in there and when we get to the actual Q&A section of the Q&A session I will ask those questions on your behalf and I do apologize in advance if we don't have the opportunity to get to your question today but we will make every effort to get answers to those questions and share those answers with you later this week. Okay so as I said accessible today and we have three speakers. Yes so our third speaker has just managed to join us. Hello Melanie. So first up we have Dr Stephen McKerkin from the Australian Data Archive followed by Melanie Barlow from the Australian Research Data Commons and then finally Dr Nicola Burton also from the Australian Research Data Commons. So Dr Stephen McKerkin as I said is the director and manager of the Australian Data Archive which is a very very interesting project. He also does some more work that we'll be touching on next week in the interoperability section about self-describing data. Now Stephen I believe you have some slides to share so I will stop sharing my screen and give you the opportunity to share your screen. So how do I get your screen share at this point is going to be the question. Okay so in the control panel for GoToWebinar hopefully at the top or near the top there's a section called sharing. Yep coming through there. Okay I also have a copy of your slides so I'll just pull them up. There's actually three of them so it should be pretty pretty straightforward there I think. Okay so Matias brings those slides up. I had a bit of an introduction I'd say to the archive and what it does and why we talk quite a lot about accessibility in this framework. So ADA Australian Data Archive is nearly 40 years old and over that time we've been working with a number of different organisations over that time to share data often from sources generally based on collection of information from humans of different sorts, different locations, different topics but our orientation has certainly been about data accessibility for content that is often subject to human ethics requirements in particular and that's you know an emphasis for us. So there we go we've got the slides up there. We're based at ANU here in Canberra in the Research School of Social Sciences and have our origins in the social sciences and the work we do is trying to collect and preserve social science data and I cover broad domain there leading to health sciences and population health, some environmental science and other spaces as well on behalf of the social science research community generally. So over that time we have collected over 5,000 data sets, probably 1500 projects or what we would term studies thinking about enabling access to any different forms of metadata. The sorts of things we cover national election studies, public opinion polls, such latitude surveys, censuses, we work a bit with the ABS on different things, some aggregate statistics and administrative data as well and we worked across different domains academic, originally you know we have content and we share content with pretty much every university in Australia and internationally but increasingly collaborations with government on enabling access to data that's been collected either by or on behalf of federal and state government agencies and in some cases even with the private sector as well. I think for example like the Morgan Gallup polls and essential polling groups like that which are often collected by private providers. So we familiar with the different types of domains and the different access expectations that come with those different domains. So both on the way in what are depositors looking for in terms of how they what their data to be managed and to be accessible and on the way out what are researchers and other potential users. Again across government, academia and the private sector what are sort of the the conditions of access that they might you know might expect to see or that they are expected to comply with depending on how you want to frame that discussion. So next slide Matias if we could. So I've got three, there's that's the second of three slides. Most of what I'm going to say today is basically a summary of particularly content that I've drawn from our website. So we have a section accessing data there at the top of the page. There's a parallel section on depositing data which cross references that as well. So depending on your orientation of someone wanting to share or someone who is looking to access data that has been shared you know we're providing both of those perspectives and you can have a look at the website to explore some of that. But just to summarize some of the content that we put together there to put people to think about certainly the you know we sort of walk through the different procedures and expectations we have and some of the standards and practices that we that we use around that both depositing and accessing data in that you know user information on our website. So broadly we summarize on the access side we're thinking about it from a user perspective the sorts of things that you want to be looking at as you're coming into the system is you know how do you find content, how do you get detailed information about that and that Matias is kind of touching upon where you're going next week you know what's the level of detail that you need to be able to understand and use that information that's one variation of accessibility that you might want to consider about consider as well. It ties into both interoperability and particularly your usability as well you know to the extent you have sufficient information to be able to you know make use of it going forward. We have details on you know some of the online analysis you can do particularly on you know processes for downloading data and that's the one I'm probably going to orient you know people around today. So when you're thinking about access in particular thinking about access of data from human populations in particular as I say often these you know these studies will have gone through you know at least some basic review but you know often in a quite detailed ethics application through human research ethics committees within universities or the agencies that they've been collected from and that those access conditions basically set some protocols for how the data can be shared on what basis. So as we we work somewhat with open data but where we particularly work most of the time is actually on what we might think of as mediated access it's not you know you can't access it at all but it neither is it sitting there immediately for you to download without any restrictions either and that's kind of summarized in that statement that we have on the page there. The archives committed to open access to for Australian international research data for research and education purposes however that's balancing our obligations to the participants in these research studies and often what we talk about in terms of discussions without data depositors or owners is the also the obligations for in terms of intellectual property commercial value and other things that might be associated with the collection as well. So different groups have different interests here and what we need to do is be able to balance those different interests particularly the one that we're concerned with and we're highlighting here is that that consideration around you know what are your privacy and confidentiality obligations to your particular participants if you're a data owner or a data creator is the one that comes you know comes to mind there. So we can go to the next slide Matias. So the way we think about that is sort of framing up different forms of access and I would to short circuit one of probably the early questions that might come through here is there a standard way of thinking about different levels of access the answer is no and this is you know we've worked over a few years now to iterate on what you know the sort of access models that we've developed but there are you know we don't actually have a recognized standard nationally or internationally but thinking about anything other than open access you know open as as you know as it sounds it's there are no restrictions on access or use you know when you think about limiting access not stopping but managing or mediating that access then you you know the terminology is often bespoke and that's one of the challenges that we often deal with is how people think about these things. What we've developed is a basic framework for looking at how you might come across that and then what sorts of expectations and what sorts of documentation processes we need to use to work with our providers so we have their let's say open access is the starting point there but I would say I would say about five percent of our collection is actually open access because that's actually quite well serviced by a number of different organizations. The other three categories are our different mediated access models and here what we're doing is tying those sorts of questions around access to what do you have to think about in terms of managing if you're not going to make it directly open so we we sort of talk about two standard types general and restricted access that so here the access is by request and the question comes down to well who can make the decision about you know approval on access to that data so on with our general access model the the data provider the data of the custodian approves ADA to make decisions on their behalf and our restricted access model the data owner wants to make that decision themselves based upon information that we might collect and we set up a data request system that supports that so what we're trying to do is you know as you manage that process of controlling access in different ways it comes with a much larger administrative burden so what we're trying to is sort of manage through these two standard models to streamline that but then we have a third case there which is there are some cases where you just have ad hoc requirements different groups or agencies might want to know specific things or specific types of users and so we we negotiate particular models with particular groups around that can't be kind of standardized into a into a particular model the point about the site I mean this is that to meet different types of needs they are developed specifically to suit the types of processes and content that we have here and we're trying to balance those different obligations we're talking about it is not a small workload I have one and sometimes two staff working several days a week to manage these requests so there are challenges and burdens that come with managing that access as well but as I say it is you know that one means through which you can actually think about that trade-off between say enabling access for both you know public benefit and good open science and the obligations to the you know that the participants in your studies and the you know the owners of that data for you know the different sorts of intellectual property value that it might have so that's kind of an introduction to the sorts of you know frameworks that we use as I say there we've developed those for our particular needs there are developments certainly going on in nationally and at state level on how different agencies might think about you know their frameworks we haven't seen one so much for the research sector in terms of you know some access standardized access models and that might be an interesting discussion as well but it's a bit of an introduction to the sorts of considerations that we have and what what sorts of principles and approaches we're trying to think about when we're looking at the different access models that we might use and I'll leave it there. Great thank you very much for that Steve and we've already got some questions coming in for you but we will hold those until the Q&A session. Okay next up we have sorry I will stop sharing your slides Steve. Melanie are you there? Hello. Hello Melanie let me I will just turn you into a presenter so you should be able to share your screen now. Thank you Liz is going to share for me. Okay great and so you can hear Melanie Barlow. Melanie do you have a webcam you'll be using? Oh yes there you are okay. Melanie Barlow is a data consultant at the Australian Research Data Commons and oh I need to make Liz the presenter. Sorry everybody I don't use go-to webinar every day. Liz you shouldn't have be able to share slides for Melanie. Melanie is a data consultant at the Australian Research Data Commons and she'll be talking to us a little bit about the APIs that the ARDC has and uses over to Melanie. Great so thanks Liz for sharing those slides I'll just make sure I can look at them too. Okay so um yeah let's just dive right into the first one sorry second one yeah pass that one okay great so I've just lined out let me just hide this little thing that there's again so I've just lined our um principles up there for accessible so we can um everyone's pretty familiar with those already so let's hop into the next one and I'll show you how we're going to make some connections uh so this is the um mud map of what you might have so your data your metadata you might have a metadata catalog API so that your metadata can be retrieved and you might have a data access or process or something service API for accessing that data and then on to the next one please Liz uh so now the services that we have available within the ARDC we've got the next research cloud our research data Australia identify services and the research for Cabrera's Australia and um in support of all of these we have us people who can help you to um access these and understand them and learn about them like we are now next slide please uh so this is a shocking a lot of things to look at at one time but all I've done there and that's for your proves a bit later so that you can start following all the paths but in a nutshell I've just um specified some particular actions that might relate to those principles and then I've pointed to what parts of your system they might apply to and then uh so for example if we just take a one there we've got a metadata retrievable by their identifier so then I've just got a little block box up there I'll thank you just saying that for example you might have a metadata catalog API and you might be able to retrieve metadata via its um DOI and so um now down the bottom on top of the services I've put a little bit of an explanation of what might occur so pertaining to these principles in that first little blue um very rectangular box there that's to indicate that um within your nectar research cloud you might have the data you might have metadata you might have the stores and the registries of these things you could have infrastructure services and platforms or within the cloud and then within RDA you might have metadata so within your own institutional repository but it's being harvested into research data Australia and then within that you might have the links to the actual data to be able to access uh and then for the identifier services that yellow um yellow uh we have where um identifier services available for identifying services data samples instruments publications etc and these will be pertaining to your particular object your service or whatever about the metadata itself will have this uh indicator this identifier and then for example within metadata you might have the identifier for the service and that might be in the form of a PID or something like that and then in the next one the purple one with the vocabularies you might have um certain terms that assist with uh the discovery the data obviously but then also the format so things that pertain to the um accessibility and uh later interoperability but just being able to have sufficient information to be able to gain information and understand that an item is accessible and this is covered also by license access rights access indicators to that might be in your metadata and then you might have controlled vocabularies for those kind of terms uh so the next one um this is a little bit of a dive so for the next research cloud um this is the link to information to be able to find out about um how the services offered within the cloud can assist with um the accessibility or fair in general of data and metadata and then next one please our research data Australia so for having metadata available in research data Australia it can harvest from metadata catalogs which are already in place and similarly it has its own uh apis for accessing this metadata for um machine access so that metadata can be interrogated and understood and particular data for particular purposes can be found service endpoints for data can be discovered so that data can be accessed and used uh so we've just got a little bit of an example on the left there is the contributed page for example for Australian data archive and then a search results for finding um the content and if you follow all of these links they do you can get a bit of a closer look at things up in the top right there we have um the access rights vocabulary for indicating um accessibility for data within research data Australia that little thing down there that says supports open layers that's an example of where within the dataset metadata we've actually indicated the link to that data via a particular service and that's available there and then down the bottom there is a lot more um documentation for providing records to research data Australia and more generally about metadata itself there and so the next slide I thank you so this is about identifier services and um that's a link to information um for subscribing and for for obtaining these identifier services the scope of what is available and then we've just got an example there in RDA of having a DOI to a dataset and then um that we can provide that under the access data link to take people off to the landing page within its native repository and next one please also and here's research vocabulary Australia so we talked a little bit before about having controlled vocabularies used uh where you can um to assist machine understand human understanding of what um something is providing uh with um regard to access license um and all of the things delving into topics and categories and parameters etc and here I have um the screenshot over the portal itself and then um within that same page there that one link you can find all sorts of information to be able to dive deeper into using or and even publishing vocabularies and so um we and associated with all of these are multiple communities of practice and um interest groups for example that assist people with finding out more about um these things how to use them and what's being done and then just the next slide please please this was just a little bit of reminder so this was kind of to help people think okay I want to do this and I think I'm going to do that okay well then how do I going back to those other slides how does this particular service pertain to that and um just knowing that it exists and then to contact us to find out how we might um solve those questions and that's me so thanks so much thank you very much for that Melanie a lot of information there and I can confirm we will be sharing slides with everybody after the end of this session so you'll be able to click through Melanie's links and in spectro diagram and and learn much more about all the different services that the ARDC has to offer uh now uh speaking of communities of practice uh next up we have uh Dr Nicola Burton uh data technologist based in Western Australia here with me um and she'll be giving us a bit more about uh some of our communities of practice uh do you have any slides Nicola? I do have a couple okay I'll just make you the presenter so you should be able to share your screen now uh I am not I'm not seeing that I also seem to be frozen oh dear I don't know if anyone can see me uh we can see and hear you uh perfect fantastic okay we can see your your whole screen so you might like to yeah full yep all right over to you that's what I'm doing okay um so I will be very quick so that we have time to get on to some of your questions but um hi I'm Nicola Burton uh I uh work as a data technologist at the ARDC uh but in a previous life I was a researcher in psychology uh working with lots of images of people's faces which has given me a bit of an interest in sensitive data so along with uh AEDA um so Steve who you heard from and Arnet I helped to coordinate the sensitive data community of practice and that's a community where people can get together and share their issues difficulties and solutions around working with sensitive data and uh we sorry I think we have just slid off my screen I'm going to see if I can find a way right that looks better um so uh we um we work with people working with all different kinds of sensitive data um so government data ecological data health data indigenous data commercial data and um one of the one of the things that's in common between all these different kinds of data is that it's data that can't just be made openly available um because it might uh either there's legal implications because it contains personal information uh it could cause some kind of harm um for instance in terms of ecological data there might be a poaching risk for um species uh in terms of indigenous data there might be culturally sensitive information and so one of the things that's in common between all these kinds of data is that it needs to be controlled in terms of uh who can get hold of it uh and how they get hold of it so we're talking about access and mediation um so uh one of the uh things to bear in mind here is that just because this data can't just be made openly available it can still be made fair so it's perfectly possible to have data which I can't just hand out to anyone but I can still let people know exactly what it is that I have it that it exists and I can tell them how to get hold of it so for instance I can say well I have this ecological data set um it tells you all about this protected species um you know I can't just give it to you but I can give you instructions about how to let me know that you want it how to get in contact with me and uh and then whatever the solution is which will allow you to access that data one of the interesting problems that we do consider in this community is that in some cases even the metadata itself can be sensitive so for instance in terms of commercial data there may be companies who want to protect a commercial interest and they may be nervous about even letting people know that they are doing research in a particular area or in the case of ecological data um sometimes a piece of the metadata such as the location associated with the data set is in itself sensitive because it would give poachers information about where those species are so we have a lot of really interesting conversations about the correct way to display even the metadata that fully protects that data while also enabling it to be used in a way which will advance whatever important research is being done um yeah so that's great thank you very much for that Nicola uh okay so panelists who can do so uh could you please unmute yourselves and turn on your video uh although I think I manually muted somebody before sorry we I heard some laughing so I manually muted one of the panelists um and while we're here there is Liz uh so in fact this is the first time that all three of us are organizing fair data 101 express um are on at the same time I'm sorry I was very busy having a root canal unexpectedly last week so I wasn't able to attend the last session uh so you can tell how interested I am so uh hello from uh from me from Nicola and from Liz uh we will be with you the entire way through this four-week course uh and Melanie may also pop in and out with questions that she has and uh Steve I can see you've also unmuted yourself so uh we have some questions in and I'd like to remind everybody that there is a question module in the uh control panel for go-to webinar please type all of your questions in there um now first up I think uh I might throw this one over to Steve uh this is a question from one of our international attendees uh asking what the relationship is between the Australian data archive and research data Australia uh that's a question from Melanie you know which is um so we've been working hard to actually figure that one out in point of fact so so Australian data archive is is is based at the ANU and is a is um say a data repository fundamentally um resource for curation access of data sets research data Australia is the metadata repository uh and what we've been working with Melanie on is um enabling our metadata records to be accessible through research data Australia um and one of the challenges we've been dealing with is actually how to represent access rights uh and access models um in research data Australia so that's been a uh a long running battle that we've been fighting the good fight on I would say I say this is where this lack of standardisation actually is is something of a challenge because um how do you you know in the absence of a standardised way of thinking about what access levels and access you know controls are um it's very difficult for Melanie is the you know one of the maintainers of the the RDA system to actually represent that consistently um so we've been working actually to try and look at that great thanks Steve and just a point of clarification for those who uh are not from Australia the ANU uh with the Australian data archive is based is the Australian National University uh which is in sunny Canberra um okay so uh not not sunny today no it is wonderful must be nice and cold then yes Melanie I just wanted to add to that thanks Steve um so the ADA was the first dataverse system that we've harvested from into RDA so we put a lot of work into that metadata crosswalk with Steve and Janet and so we um can in theory reuse that for other systems that come on board and yeah that's the beauty of AODC we have people like me who can really help with that crosswalking as metadata source updates and then need to be updates to the mappings great thanks Melanie uh okay uh another question uh and I might throw this one over to Melanie um so just a clarification that the uh or rather the question the bottom I just want to clarify that ARDC does not actually store any third party data yes in research data Australia we store the metadata only then have links off to the data wherever that might be via a service or a direct download link research vocabularies Australia does replicate vocabularies but these have their governance process to ensure that that's accurate um it can do so but then yeah that model um we'd need to have someone else talk about just what goes on there great thank you Melanie okay Nicola here's one for you so according to this question askers ethics people the ARDC definition of sensitive data is not the same as the NHMRC's definition uh so yes the NHMRC being the national health and medical research council who fund the bulk of medical research in Australia do you have a comment on that Nicola um I do not because I don't remember off the top of my head what the NHMRC's definition of sensitive data is but I know that this is an ongoing issue that many people have very different definitions of what sensitive data is um and it depends on so for instance a human ethics committee will be very interested in personal information and how that relates to the Privacy Act um and it may be a more narrow definition than a definition which includes any data which could cause harm or in any other way needs to be made less than perfectly open um so uh if there's a sort of a more specific question about the difference between the definitions I'm very happy to look into it and take it offline um but I'm aware that there are many different definitions of sensitive data um yes and uh we've just received a clarifying note from one of our other sensitive data specialists in the ARDC uh saying that we use the sensitive data definition from the Australian Privacy Act of 1988 um but I would like to reiterate your point Nicola that sensitive does go beyond just humans um so the Privacy Act is all about humans uh and I personally have a great interest in the the conservation of non-human species um so things like the wallomai pine which uh the location of which was kept really quite secret but I think it's relatively easy to find out where it is now unfortunately um but look we could talk about sensitive data all day and I know that some of our colleagues do so uh we will move on to a another question um sorry we've got a few to have a look at okay here's one question and in fact it is one about one of our uh recorded sessions so um one of the recorded sessions referred to an example on the CSIRO data web portal where a link to the API was provided given that the API is so quote unquote open what measures are in place to protect the integrity of the data within uh and in fact I might be selfish and I might take that question myself um so when it comes to providing access to data through an API uh first and foremost that the most important principle is to only put uh give the API itself access to data that you wish to be made available as it were so um creating an API that can access literally every piece of data that you have is probably not a very good idea if some of that data is really sensitive in nature and you don't want it to get out um so after deciding which data your API can share to others the next step is to build authentication and authorization uh functionality into your API which is one of our uh fair guiding principles uh and so the idea there is that the authorization procedure is is a very human procedure that determines who is allowed access to what uh what kind of data and they're given different levels of access uh in fact kind of in the same way that this webinar is being run at the moment those of you the people you can see here we have a higher level of access uh than the attendees so we can share our microphones share our webcams things like that um and then after determining who is allowed access to what you build in build in a mechanism by which somebody can prove they are who they say they are the most traditional form of doing that would be through say a username and a password but there are other ways of uh being able to determine to authenticate who somebody is uh so i hope that answers your question happy to take any more on that um okay what other questions do we have here so uh Steve i think another one for you uh so the the question is do you think it is possible to align access conditions with types of consent oh uh Steve seems to have lost his audio capability oh wait he's back again Steve are you there can you run that one yeah okay yeah okay uh do you think it is possible to align access conditions uh with types of consent uh that's a good question um you're more than welcome to take it on notice and have to think about it so it's so we've been and so i presented the access conditions we have as we sit as we have now we've actually been thinking about um how we streamline those a bit more in point of fact uh and i guess the interesting question there is actually in principle yes you could um i'm just trying to think of then you have the secondary problem of thinking um types of consent okay what's our framework for types of consent there um you know that that so we hit another standard standardization problem it would probably be the case that you could if you could have a agreement on that but you know to take one example we've got a um the longitudinal study of Australian children is it you know they actually get consent on a number of different issues uh issues within the study so they're linking to tax records and medical records and the like um so the the question partly would become how would i frame you know a standardized model for what that level would be we actually do do we do this in a manual way actually at ADA which is so you can kind of pull apart the data a bit more and look at and we do differentiate levels of access in discussion with our depositors in conjunction with the sensitivity of the data and which is kind of aligned to the consent style there um but i wouldn't say this is probably you know that that that that that special access model that actually touched upon in our in my presentation it's it's a bit of a rabbit warren though to start thinking it through so um yes you would have to have a pretty interesting type of design and a sense of what you know what type of consent is this um is not a it's not immediately obvious to me that there is a sort of a standard way of thinking about that you know have i got consent or not what are the form of consent you know what have i consented to that you know this as i that's opening up a can of worms that i i think it would be hard to get a stamp you know a reasonably standardized model that's there but you could at least go some way to try and classify that i guess um uh thanks steve uh so a further comment from the the questioner uh and i have to admit this is something i'm not entirely uh across uh it's apparently the nhmrc does have different categories of consent or the level of consent uh general extended and unspecified um i don't know if any of our panelists know any more on that nicola perhaps um i don't know the specific details of the of the clinical trial um consent um it's maybe something for our health and medical specialist to um to fill us in on further absolutely and we can uh get that person sorry i'm protecting privacy so i'm only naming the names of our panelists in this session uh so we can we'll get our uh our specialist health and medical can i follow up on that quickly matias which is to say i mean i'm familiar with the idea of unspecified consent which is in a sense you don't define the particulars of what the you know what the additional sharing or the additional usage might be which has as its advantages for data sharing um the i'd say the problem is not in the framework it's in the it's in the implementation okay so when it comes down to requesting unspecified consent you know is how you can have some generic terms there but every consent form is different um and so it's not in the in the high level versions here it's in the specifics of what they've you know what your actual consent process was um that that it becomes difficult here um so as i say yes you've kind of got frameworks there that you could do but i think you would actually have to be more specific than that you're going to align the access models with that because as you know to take the example that the else example i had before you know there are seven consents that are being given in that in that um data collection um that become you know how do you actually design a system that you know designed to actually accommodate all seven of those consents is that you know as a practical challenging yep absolutely uh yes i get what you mean uh okay we are running out of time uh or have sorry have we actually run out of time i can't remember now whether this was meant to be 45 minutes or 50 minutes um so look as it is we are look i will call it we are at the end of time because it's only three minutes away from 10 to the hour anyway uh unfortunately we weren't able to get to all the questions during this session but we will make our best effort to answer those and share those questions and answers with the entire community uh so i would like to take this opportunity to uh thank everybody for attending uh and i especially like to thank our panelists uh steve melanie and nicola uh and i would like to remind you all to please give us your feedback so after this webinar ends you'll have the opportunity to give a little bit of feedback and we'll use that to improve the next session and i'd also like to remind you all about our slack workspace where we can have some very lively discussion uh so if you have any more questions that you that that only come to you after this session please ask them in there uh and also if you have any questions about the activities that we've set for this week uh could you please uh raise them in there one of them in particular can get a little technical um and and i can absolutely assist with any kind of technical issues uh so we'll leave it at that